Social Media and Behind the Scenes: AKA Everything Else Not "News and Media"

[tv echo]

Edited October 13, 2016 by tv echo

[Chaser]

27 minutes ago, tv echo said:

CW Arrow has posted like 10 video clips from 502 with "thanks for watching" tweets...
https://twitter.com/CW_Arrow

Social media engagement is down a lot from last year. Their most engaged fandom was Olicity fans and they pissed quite a few off.

I think they were expecting fans to do Olicity trends in response to BF, much like in S3 with Ray. That's not the case this time around. Big misjudgment on their part.

[GirlvsTV]

Did the show trend at all last night? Curious since they seem to have actually put some effort into promoting sm engagement . . .

[Belinea]

What is going on with them?

[apinknightmare]

8 minutes ago, GirlvsTV said:

Did the show trend at all last night? Curious since they seem to have actually put some effort into promoting sm engagement . . .

Not that I saw - not in the US, at least. 

[Chaser]

I don't think Arrow trended.

I saw a screenshot of Felicity trending at one point.

[SmallScreenDiva]

4 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I saw a screenshot of Felicity trending at one point.

Saw the screen cap, too (think it was tweeted by SmoakandArrow) but I'm not sure if that's Felicity Smoak, though I know of no other Felicity on the news or on TV last night.

[Sunshine]

I saw a screenshot of both Felicity and Wild Dog. Don't remember whose twitter. I think it was U S.

[dtissagirl]

But Arrow didn't make the Nielsen Social daily top five -- again:
http://www.nielsensocial.com/socialcontentratings/daily/

[Guest]

They need to do something soon because Arrow used to be on that list pretty much every week. Although if 'doing something' means more interviews, keep it. Haha.

[EmilyBettFan]

They screwed up majorly (arrow writers/producers/promo people) because not only were Olicity fans trending for Olicity each week, they were also a contributing factor at trending for Arrow each week also. Which got Arrow onto the Nielsen Twitter list. 

[BkWurm1]

6 hours ago, EmilyBettFan said:

They screwed up majorly (arrow writers/producers/promo people) because not only were Olicity fans trending for Olicity each week, they were also a contributing factor at trending for Arrow each week also. Which got Arrow onto the Nielsen Twitter list. 

I agree that they have made a huge mistake in promoting the show. Ever since summer it's been the same message of GRITTY!  Season 1 and season 2 and new recruits.  Oh, and don't worry, no Olicity.  And surprise, apathy is the result.   

It's a huge shame because the Olicity has been so solid.  In a way I think they might have tried to tell people how good they are as partners this season but every statement is wrapped up first in shoving it down our throats that nope they are not together, Felicity has a boyfriend, we are writing away from their romance, it's not in the works any time soon and but look!  Gritty!

Edited October 13, 2016 by BkWurm1

[GirlvsTV]

I think they believed adding all the new masks would create more buzz from the comic book crowd and get them to tune in.  Instead they got a big, "meh."  I just don't think Arrow's main audience really cares much for the comic book stuff, after 5 seasons they are more attached to the characters and the story. Neither of those things were great in 4b, plus the awful promotions, so fewer people came back for season 5. 

It's also possible they thought the hype around the huge xover might raise the interest of comic book fans and bring in (or bring back) viewers. They were super wrong though, lol. I'm very interested to see what they do if Flash ratings continue to drop.

[EmilyBettFan]

Even flash ratings are down.

They aren't writing Felicity and Oliver together because they think the 80,000 comic fans don't want that. Except they went from having over 2.5-2.7 million people watching weekly to 1.8-1.9M in this new season.

There are more fans out there who don't care about comics.

They need to get their shit together. Nielsen Twitter ratings do give the show extra ratings. They maybe miniscule but they still count. They have lost their driving force (Olicity fans) in a lot of areas.

[quarks]

8 hours ago, EmilyBettFan said:

They aren't writing Felicity and Oliver together because they think the 80,000 comic fans don't want that.

 

 

I don't think it's because of comic fans so much as a nearly ironclad rule in television writing that a) audiences will tune in to watch the couple get back together, so you have to create opportunities to let the couple back together (thus, will they/won't they couples and the ten years of Ross/Rachel), and b) the only slightly less ironclad rule that television couples can't really get together until at least the fifth season, if not later. If they do get together before this, something almost inevitably has to happen to split them up. MG's alluded to this in a couple of interviews.

As we discussed earlier in this thread, MG has also alluded to another issue in interviews, which is that in season three, the Arrow writers were aware of the possibility that the CW, as a network, could be closed down - thus ending Arrow. So, season three was written with an eye towards Arrow possibly ending at the end of season four, or in December 2016, thus, by television standards, "rushing" Olicity.  

(I have that in quotes, because by normal people's standards, after a year of flirting in season one, and then working together night/day in season two and confessing feelings for each other, normal people would be married by season three - that is, a couple years after meeting, which is not rushed by normal people's standards. By television people's standards, it's rushed.)

When the CW managed to survive, and Arrow writers realized they were now looking at six or seven seasons, if not more, instead of four, they backed off the "rush" plan - again, I think more for television reasons than for comic book reasons. If they were all that focused on comic book reasons, Arrow wouldn't have killed off Laurel, and would be bringing her back for more than three out of ten episodes announced so far.

[Delphi]

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_580040e7e4b0f42ad3d25ec1

I put this here, cause Caity was once a recurring player.   I thought it was a nice, though short read. 

[CabotCove]

Quote

They screwed up majorly (arrow writers/producers/promo people) because not only were Olicity fans trending for Olicity each week, they were also a contributing factor at trending for Arrow each week also. Which got Arrow onto the Nielsen Twitter list. 

Its their job & the network to do promotion for the show, plenty of show do just fine without fan promotion. They shouldnt have to compromise and sacrifice their creative choices in exchange for that.

Clearly they must have thought the changes they made to the show were worth the risk of not trending on twitter.  I think they are more important things than trending on social media, not like its even a source of revenue.

Edited October 15, 2016 by DCLeague

[GirlvsTV]

23 minutes ago, DCLeague said:

Its their job & the network to do promotion for the show, plenty of show do just fine without fan promotion.

Clearly they must have thought the changes they made to the show were worth the risk of not trending on twitter.  I think they are more important things than trending on social media, not like its even a source of revenue.

But the network's budget for paid promotion is tiny and they are not going throw a lot of it at a show in its 5th season. The bulk of marketing money will likely go towards promoting new projects and their highest rated shows, like Flash and Supergirl. 

Fan promotion and buzz is pretty important to shows like Arrow because it's FREE. There are a lot of other shows out there that would love to have the ability to trend nearly every week the way Arrow used to. I don't think they realized they were risking their sm fan base with these storylines. I think they believed the Olicity fans would watch regardless and sit through a whole or half-season of terribly written romantic angst. They were wrong, which is why they actually made an attempt (not a very good one though) at creating some Twitter buzz when the show was on last week.

Edited October 15, 2016 by GirlvsTV

[Midnight Lullaby]

Looking a bit around on twitter it's pretty clear shows seek fans promotion on twitter so it must mean something. Not so long ago one showrunner insulted people that watched and commented on twitter in an article and now the official account of his show is basically begging fans to engage on twitter. I used to think it didn't matter but if they all put an effort in it I guess I was wrong.

[dtissagirl]

1 hour ago, DCLeague said:

I think they are more important things than trending on social media, not like its even a source of revenue.

It is totally a source of ad revenue. Traditional ad buyers demand to see social media stats when deciding where to put their monies.

https://www.theguardian.com/media-network/2015/jan/21/social-media-engagement-tv-ratings-fremantle

Edited October 15, 2016 by dtissagirl

[doesntworkonwood]

For the last few years Olicity fans attempted a trend on twitter every week just before/during the Arrow episode. These were well planned and often successful trends (in the US at least), and they happened with every episode throughout the entire season. Even the ones with little Olicity (and stuff like Ray Palmer/BMD). Essentially, there was no risk to take because there was a general idea that Olicity would trend on twitter just because that's what the fans did and what they always had done. 

Except fandom doesn't work like that, and it's clear from the promotion that the Social Media Team don't really understand fandom. Olicity fans weren't happy, and now the trends are not being organised at all, because they don't want to give promotion to a show that's not catering to them (which is fair, why put effort into something you don't care about or even actively hate?)

All of this wouldn't be a massive deal if we didn't live in 2016, where twitter is essentially the best form of mass communication. I'm pretty sure that some of the show runners even admitted that the CW told them that they needed to make twitter accounts because it is that important to them. It doesn't take a lot to get something trending, but when it does it exposes your show to a lot more people in a significantly shorter amount of time than an advert on a tv channel does. It also engages people outside of the 'bubble' that a five year old show would create. It allows writers and producers to see what people are thinking about a show without having to wade through tons of fan mail or navigate through forums. And (because it is such a large platform) it also takes into account viewers who may only have a passing interest in a show, rather than just those who are big fans of the show (i.e. the people who would have spent a lot of time writing fan mail even just 10 years back).

I'll admit, the reason I started watching the show is because I saw a gif of Felicity on tumblr. It's not a show I would have watched at all otherwise, because all I'd known about Arrow at the time was that it was a weird Robin Hood type thing, and it wasn't shown on any of the 5 major channels in the UK so I wasn't able to be exposed to it through traditional Media beyond that. Social Media is important because that's how people communicate nowadays, and I've no doubt that people take into account stuff like twitter trends when they talk of the promotion of the show. But they're not very good at hitting it right. 

[dtissagirl]

15 minutes ago, doesntworkonwood said:

Except fandom doesn't work like that, and it's clear from the promotion that the Social Media Team don't really understand fandom.

A+++ to all you've said, but I wanted to talk about this specfic point, because it's worse than that -- the DCTV shows do. not. have. a social media team. Having folks that get fandom doing the social media job would be the cherry on top, but they don't even have the sundae. They have a very very small team of old school publicists that focus most of their teeny tiny budget on traditional media, that they post on social media as an afterthought.

And it's clear they have no strategy of Twitter engagement, which is ultimately what generates *live* buzz these days. That thing they did this week, with posting clips from the Arrow episode as it aired? They do it from a distance, they treat it like airing a clip on TV to an audience that can't talk back. There's no retweeting of fans reacting to the clips or the show, there's no engaging in the show's hashtag with focused content, there's no one telling the actors to retweet the clips and best fan reactions, there's not even an attempt to treat Twitter fandom like a community -- they favorited exactly TWO tweets during broadcast. Are you fucking kidding me?

The hilarious part is the same folk watching Arrow on Twitter are obviously watching a plethora of other shows on Twitter too, and getting the kind of social media engagement from official accounts that do it properly. And not just the young demo shows -- I mean, even old people shows like Elementary have a social media strategy for live broadcast in both coasts. Because those shows actually have a social media team.

[Chaser]

What do you think is concerning them more, the down live ratings or the lack of social media?

[dtissagirl]

I don't know. I think  there is some concern re: social media because we can see it. The weird media blitz that culminated in Guggie going back to Tumblr, the lame attempt to livetweet 502 by posting clips. There's no way to access what they truly think of the ratings right now.

But also -- Chico's the head publicist for the CW's top #4 shows -- Flash, Supergirl, SPN, Arrow. SPN was #1 on the Nielsen Daily Top Five on Thursday, Supergirl was #5 on Monday. Neither Flash nor Arrow made it, but Flash did okay in ratings, and made it last week. If she's looking at it as a group effort, instead of focusing show by show, then Arrow is fucked.

[CabotCove]

Quote

Social engagement now more important than TV ratings, says Fremantle boss

https://www.theguardian.com/media-network/2015/jan/21/social-media-engagement-tv-ratings-fremantle#comments

Fair point , I can understand how SM can help TV/ live viewing but it doesnt always work that way.  Social media success can be an illusion for some shows when that does not translate to TV/ Live ratings. They dont air any ads on SM+ show to benefit the advertiser, as far as I know. I still think TV ratings are where they get most of their dollar. At least thats what I been made to believe by adweek.

[quarks]

1 minute ago, DCLeague said:

Fair point , I can understand how SM can help TV/ live viewing but it doesnt always work that way.  Social media success can be an illusion for some shows when that does not translate to TV/ Live ratings. They dont air any ads on SM+ show to benefit the advertiser, as far as I know. I still think TV ratings are where they get most of their dollar. At least thats what I been made to believe by adweek.

 

That's only true for live sporting events and news channels, where TV ratings are where they get most of their revenue. For scripted television, most revenue is coming in from post-views - including international sales, streaming, DVD/Blu-Ray, and ancillary revenue.  Social media success can convert to revenue in those streams, thus why networks/shows are focusing on it.

Note that Berlanti just said he was able to free up additional money from the networks for this year's crossovers - more than last year - despite the fact that both Arrow season 4 and Flash season 2 were slightly down from the previous year, and Legends of Tomorrow dropped significantly last season. DVD/Blu-Ray sales are one reason Supernatural is still with us.  And post view revenue is one reason why Pedowitz keeps telling us that he doesn't care about ratings/viewers. I think he (and the Fox network) are being just a bit disingenuous there, but it does indicate that live views are only part of the picture for the CW.

[CabotCove]

Quote

That's only true for live sporting events and news channels, where TV ratings are where they get most of their revenue. For scripted television, most revenue is coming in from post-views - including international sales, streaming, DVD/Blu-Ray, and ancillary revenue.  Social media success can convert to revenue in those streams, thus why networks/shows are focusing on it.

Im aware that live ratings are just one of their numerous revenue streams. But I guess what I wasnt considering was that CW maybe getting more revenue from other revenue streams that is not Live ratings?  If that is their new status quo then I accept I was mistaken on that. That would certainly explain somewhat why they haven't cancelled very low rated shows for a while now. Which is cool for CW, and the fans they can watch without fearing their show will get  cancelled. I get the connection of SM and other revenue streams now.  Thanks?

Edited October 15, 2016 by DCLeague

[arjumand]

2 hours ago, dtissagirl said:

There's no retweeting of fans reacting to the clips or the show, there's no engaging in the show's hashtag with focused content, there's no one telling the actors to retweet the clips and best fan reactions,

This so much. When I compare it to another show which is taking more of my attention nowadays, Game of Thrones, it's really on a whole different level. And I'm not talking about the difference between cable and network tv, I'm talking about fan engagement and the showrunners' acknowledgement of fan engagement. When that terrible no good thing happened in Season 3, and youtube was immediately flooded by approximately a billion horrified reactions from people watching that part, what did the showrunners do? Immediately order them all taken down? No, they booked the author of the original books onto talk shows and made him watch them, with the host asking the equivalent of "Well, GRRM, see what you did? Are you proud of yourself?" "Yup."

When some guy put videos of himself online, imitating characters really, really well and even reading a chapter of one of the books in a character's voice, did they ignore this obviously over-invested fan? No, they once again invited him to fancast in talk shows, and eventually gave him a fricking bit part in an episode! A part with lines! (Yes, he was horribly killed, but that's GoT for you). 

Can you imagine MG even interacting with fans in such a way? I can't. There is very much an attitude of take it or leave it, and that's not how you engage fans. I don't mean by pandering to them, but giving them the impression that their ideas matter, and that it's ok to like the show. And it's not like every GoT watcher lives in a happy utopia of loving the show - there's plenty of book fans who've shunned it and won't even discuss it - it's just that if you're a fan, you will know what's going on, and you feel encouraged to create content to promote the show, rather than just feeling defeated by the same crappy storylines, the same terrible dialogue and direction, and hearing the showrunner say, well it's my show, and I do what I want.

Sure, GoT has an enormous budget, but that's only now, after 6 years of steadily rising ratings, starting with an average of 2.52 in season 1, up to 7.69 in season 6. And the latter is only the tv figures - Variety worked out that multiplatform views meant they had an average of 23.3 million views this season.

And then I read here that the 4 shows just have one social media person - not even a team? It's clear that they don't see its importance, and I can't see anything changing soon. They'd rather pay James Bamford for piss-poor directing than spent one cent on social media marketing. That's when you kind of need to pander to the loudest fans, and those aren't the comic book fans, to be frank. They've been pissed off since the pilot that MG turned cheery Green Arrow into BatmanRobinHood, and the privileging of a made-up female character over their sacrosanct BC was just the icing on the cake. They need the Olicity people. This isn't the way to keep them.

[calliope1975]

At this point, I'd take MG not actively trolling fans. I don't understand why he thinks that's a good idea as a matter of business though I'm sure he personally gets off on it. 

I work in the industry with commercials, and there's a lot of talk on the talent side that advertisers don't understand how to use social/digital media to engage potential buyers. They're still stuck in the traditional advertising mode of TV, and while that is where they still get the most reach, I don't think they understand or recognize how times have changed and the way people engage with products (and TV, movies, news, etc.) is much more interactive, for both good and bad. 

[tv echo]

I suspect that SA is very concerned. He's said a few times over the years (from 2012 to 2016) that "the opposite of love isn't hate, it's apathy." Meaning that even complaints are preferred to indifference.  For example:

Quote

In this day and age, anyone can kind of reach you at your twitter. Playing these iconic characters, not everyone is going to be happy. How do you handle that negativity?
Well first of all, it feels incredibly rare that I get horrible messages. I feel like there’s been a very loud faction of people that seem to think that Arrow was one show for a while, and now it’s becoming another show, but this is simply a problem that you run into because we just finished our 92nd episode. Some of the best shows on television have been their best shows since season six, seven and eight. So, I learned very early on—it was actually when we were shooting the pilot for Arrow— that the opposite of love is not hate, it is apathy. If nobody cared, then no one would write anything. When I moved to LA in 2010, I could’ve walked down the middle of Hollywood Boulevard in a box shouting some obscene message and nobody would’ve cared. Now, not so much. [Laughs]. So you just have to learn to roll with it. The other important thing is, especially with Twitter, if it’s not something people are willing to attach their name to, why would I take it seriously?

http://theyoungfolks.com/film/interview-stephen-amell-talks-tmnt-out-of-the-shadows/79857

Quote

In response to fan asking about his reaction to Oliver's "questionable choices", SA responded that he went to the producers and asked if Oliver could not bed every single female he's not related to on the show.  SA then said: "I'm all for making questionable choices because, in truth, I don't care if people love Oliver Queen or hate him. I just don't want them to be indifferent. And as long as they're not indifferent, I'm fine with whatever's happening... The opposite of love is not hate, Zach. It’s apathy." 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2f9Lch5b3O4

[GirlvsTV]

2 hours ago, Chaser said:

What do you think is concerning them more, the down live ratings or the lack of social media?

I imagine both. To me, lack of fan driven sm buzz indicates a lack of enthusiasm, which means the viewers still hanging on may be more casual or on-the-fence about watching. Those are not viewers likely to buy DVDs or other types of merchandise.

Also, if less people are watching live the CW just made it a lot more difficult for them to catch up by taking all their stuff off Hulu. Less invested viewers, who do not have a dvr, are unlikely to know they can watch via the CW app and less likely go through the trouble of downloading it.

ETA - I work in marketing / pr and handle social media for a living and the thing that kills me is this lack of sm buzz was extremely obvious from the end of s4 and all through the hiatus. Especially when compared to previous years. You'd think someone over there would have noticed and raised a red flag so some attempt could be made to fix it. But, nope. 

Edited October 15, 2016 by GirlvsTV

[NumberCruncher]

Well Stephen should be concerned.  I see a lot of people gradually becoming indifferent--maybe not here but definitely over on the other social media platforms.  Tumblr has especially become a ghost town and we already know the impact on Twitter.  I don't really go over on Facebook (for obvious reasons) but I'm curious about the level of activity over there as well.

[tarotx]

Social media is important but not just twitter trends. When fans are angry like this summer they purposely use tweet wording that won't get noticed for the trends. But people who study fandoms and social media engagement levels know what to look for. The thing with Arrow this season is that it lost both ships compared to the beginning of last season, it also has OTA separated and there has been an uptick in trying to cause the fans to feel hopeless. There is no way fans were going to be as energized as in the past. And they haven't been energized everywhere. In article comments, tumblr, twitter, facebook and even here. That lack of passion is also the reason I knew LOT wouldn't get good ratings even though they did trend on twitter. Fans just aren't engaged enough. 

Edited October 15, 2016 by tarotx

[quarks]

13 minutes ago, arjumand said:

This so much. When I compare it to another show which is taking more of my attention nowadays, Game of Thrones, it's really on a whole different level. And I'm not talking about the difference between cable and network tv, I'm talking about fan engagement and the showrunners' acknowledgement of fan engagement. When that terrible no good thing happened in Season 3, and youtube was immediately flooded by approximately a billion horrified reactions from people watching that part, what did the showrunners do? Immediately order them all taken down? No, they booked the author of the original books onto talk shows and made him watch them, with the host asking the equivalent of "Well, GRRM, see what you did? Are you proud of yourself?" "Yup."

When some guy put videos of himself online, imitating characters really, really well and even reading a chapter of one of the books in a character's voice, did they ignore this obviously over-invested fan? No, they once again invited him to fancast in talk shows, and eventually gave him a fricking bit part in an episode! A part with lines! (Yes, he was horribly killed, but that's GoT for you). 

Can you imagine MG even interacting with fans in such a way? I can't. There is very much an attitude of take it or leave it, and that's not how you engage fans. I don't mean by pandering to them, but giving them the impression that their ideas matter, and that it's ok to like the show. And it's not like every GoT watcher lives in a happy utopia of loving the show - there's plenty of book fans who've shunned it and won't even discuss it - it's just that if you're a fan, you will know what's going on, and you feel encouraged to create content to promote the show, rather than just feeling defeated by the same crappy storylines, the same terrible dialogue and direction, and hearing the showrunner say, well it's my show, and I do what I want.

Sure, GoT has an enormous budget, but that's only now, after 6 years of steadily rising ratings, starting with an average of 2.52 in season 1, up to 7.69 in season 6. And the latter is only the tv figures - Variety worked out that multiplatform views meant they had an average of 23.3 million views this season.

And then I read here that the 4 shows just have one social media person - not even a team? It's clear that they don't see its importance, and I can't see anything changing soon. They'd rather pay James Bamford for piss-poor directing than spent one cent on social media marketing. That's when you kind of need to pander to the loudest fans, and those aren't the comic book fans, to be frank. They've been pissed off since the pilot that MG turned cheery Green Arrow into BatmanRobinHood, and the privileging of a made-up female character over their sacrosanct BC was just the icing on the cake. They need the Olicity people. This isn't the way to keep them.

Yes, but I'm not sure this is a fair comparison, even apart from the budget stuff. George RR Martin has been absolutely entrenched in fandom since the 1960s. He LOVES THIS STUFF. He loves fandom. He loves fans. He still goes to panels and sits in the audience. He still gets excited when he meets writers/artists he hasn't met. He just spent a considerable amount of money this past August, to rent out a theatre and throw an elaborate party for various science fiction writers because he wanted to celebrate science fiction and have an awesome party and tell another group of writers to piss off. He's seen major flame wars; he was there when one writer broke a bottle of wine over the head of another writer (good times, everyone, good times!). He irritated a number of his fans by writing lengthy post after lengthy post on the history of fandom last year instead of working on the next Song of Ice and Fire series. He still writes fan mail. He will happily talk comic books all day long. He knows how passionate fans are, because in many ways he's still a fan first, a writer second, a producer third.  

I'm not saying that MG isn't a fan, or didn't start in fandom, because he did. But my sense is that MG is now a producer/writer first, and a fan second, and WM has specifically said that she does not come from a comics background or a fan background.   This is hardly unusual in television, but it also means that the reactions to fans might not be the same.  

[arjumand]

1 hour ago, quarks said:

I'm not saying that MG isn't a fan, or didn't start in fandom, because he did. But my sense is that MG is now a producer/writer first, and a fan second, and WM has specifically said that she does not come from a comics background or a fan background.   This is hardly unusual in television, but it also means that the reactions to fans might not be the same.  

GRRM was only one small part of the things that I listed, and while I'm sure he helps a lot with fans of the books to get interested in the show, that didn't influence someone like me at all, because I originally actively hated the books and the show (what can I say, Kit Harington has a lot to answer for). What got me into watching was the number of videos on youtube reacting to parts of the show, visuals from the show on various social media sites etc, all put up by people really invested in the show.

And fine, neither MG nor WM know anything about how to publicise their show over social media, but that that means they need to spend their money where it needs to be spent - employing a social media person for each show. That person will know how to engage with fandom so that none of the Powers that Be will have to sully their lily-white hands in the mire.

And it has to be someone separate for each show, because while MG and WM seem to think of the shows as one harmonious group, all joining hands and singing about buying the world a coke or something, that's not the business reality. These shows are competing for the same audience, because it's the rare fan indeed who will watch all four. 

I don't have to watch all the shows to understand the crossovers anymore, like in the 80s, where you just watched an episode, and it was gone forever. I'm referencing the 80s, because that's where they seem to be stuck, following a bit of tv show relationship wisdom (when a couple gets together, the chemistry is ruined forever!!) which was 'established' in Moonlighting, a show aired before most of Arrow's audience was even born! They throw continuity out of the window, because continuity never mattered in those faraway days before dvd box sets or VOD - every episode, the status quo had be reset, because the audience had no way of keeping up with long storylines otherwise.

Let's go to Supernatural, a show which isn't a juggernaut in the ratings, but which has kept chugging along, is now in its TWELFTH year, and is kicking everybody's ass. Now, Supernatural used to absolutely despise fandom - I'm not talking about the actors, who do their best in conventions etc - but the showrunners. But slowly but surely they too joined the 21st century, until we get an episode in which high-schoolers stage a musical based on the Winchesters' adventures, and call back to something which was seemingly discarded in season 5, around 6 years before it. And it was something fandom was obsessed over, ever since it dropped out of sight.

Do they have a social media team? No idea. But they've got something.

Edited October 15, 2016 by arjumand
Was OT, might put it somewhere else

[Delphi]

2 hours ago, NumberCruncher said:

Well Stephen should be concerned.  I see a lot of people gradually becoming indifferent--maybe not here but definitely over on the other social media platforms.  Tumblr has especially become a ghost town and we already know the impact on Twitter.  I don't really go over on Facebook (for obvious reasons) but I'm curious about the level of activity over there as well.

I would say that actually applies here as well.   We have a few posters here that don't even watch the show anymore.   They hang out on the board to see what's happening and to address concerns but they have long sense given up hope and are apathetic to the show.   Sure, they like the actors and some of the characters but mostly just keep track to see what has occurred with a "this is why I stopped watching" kind of mindset. 

[Morrigan2575]

2 hours ago, arjumand said:

GRRM was only one small part of the things that I listed, and while I'm sure he helps a lot with fans of the books to get interested in the show, that didn't influence someone like me at all, because I originally actively hated the books and the show (what can I say, Kit Harington has a lot to answer for). What got me into watching was the number of videos on youtube reacting to parts of the show, visuals from the show on various social media sites etc, all put up by people really invested in the show.

And fine, neither MG nor WM know anything about how to publicise their show over social media, but that that means they need to spend their money where it needs to be spent - employing a social media person for each show. That person will know how to engage with fandom so that none of the Powers that Be will have to sully their lily-white hands in the mire.

And it has to be someone separate for each show, because while MG and WM seem to think of the shows as one harmonious group, all joining hands and singing about buying the world a coke or something, that's not the business reality. These shows are competing for the same audience, because it's the rare fan indeed who will watch all four. 

I don't have to watch all the shows to understand the crossovers anymore, like in the 80s, where you just watched an episode, and it was gone forever. I'm referencing the 80s, because that's where they seem to be stuck, following a bit of tv show relationship wisdom (when a couple gets together, the chemistry is ruined forever!!) which was 'established' in Moonlighting, a show aired before most of Arrow's audience was even born! They throw continuity out of the window, because continuity never mattered in those faraway days before dvd box sets or VOD - every episode, the status quo had be reset, because the audience had no way of keeping up with long storylines otherwise.

Let's go to Supernatural, a show which isn't a juggernaut in the ratings, but which has kept chugging along, is now in its TWELFTH year, and is kicking everybody's ass. Now, Supernatural used to absolutely despise fandom - I'm not talking about the actors, who do their best in conventions etc - but the showrunners. But slowly but surely they too joined the 21st century, until we get an episode in which high-schoolers stage a musical based on the Winchesters' adventures, and call back to something which was seemingly discarded in season 5, around 6 years before it. And it was something fandom was obsessed over, ever since it dropped out of sight.

Do they have a social media team? No idea. But they've got something.

[Morrigan2575]

You seem to be conflating network and show runners. The network arranges the publicity, not the show runner.  The Show Runners did not hire Susanne Gomez, she works for The CW network.

SPN and Arrow both get the same amount of attention from The CW.

[arjumand]

4 hours ago, GirlvsTV said:

ETA - I work in marketing / pr and handle social media for a living and the thing that kills me is this lack of sm buzz was extremely obvious from the end of s4 and all through the hiatus. Especially when compared to previous years. You'd think someone over there would have noticed and raised a red flag so some attempt could be made to fix it. But, nope. 

 

Now that you mention it, thinking back - yes, the summer after season 3 was amazing. There was the comicon appearance with the new Arrow costume, Stephen's WWE appearance - it seemed like every week there was something new going on. And even though season 3 as a whole seemed like such a downer, it ended on such a positive note, and it was followed by all the publicity bonanza that it was obvious everyone would be excited for Season 4.

What would you do at this point, if you were there, on the spot? I'm hearing that all of the CW just has one social media person - what can she do to turn this around?

[catrox14]

41 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

You seem to be conflating network and show runners. The network arranges the publicity, not the show runner.  The Show Runners did not hire Susanne Gomez, she works for The CW network.

SPN and Arrow both get the same amount of attention from The CW.

I think SPN gets even less than Arrow in general.  This season they had a bit more because of the EW cover contest which was a fan vote. Then they did a photoshoot for Rogue Magazine that Gomez organized...and IMO it was ...not that great. It was edgy but had mixed reviews IMO. Some of the best promos came out of SPN's own production crew with "Shaving People, Punting Things" promos (which is a genius name)

But alas, I don't think Arrow being a DC property will be allowed that kind of freedom.  I wish they could.

[Morrigan2575]

SPN is treated better under Pedowitz but, yeah they still get the short end of the stick. I get it, SPN's audience is loyal, they'll follow the show anywhere and it's too old to attract a significant number of new fans to make the media spending worth it. 

I myself was absolutely shocked that SPN got a new photoshoot this season.

Edited October 15, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[catrox14]

8 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

SPN is treated better under Pedowitz but, yeah they still get the shoet end of the stick. I get it, SPN's audience is loyal, they'll follow the show anywher and it's too old to attract a significant number of new fans to make the media spending worth it. 

I myself was absolutely shockef that SPN got anew photoshoot this season.

I saw some statistics that it's one of the most popular shows on Netflix just below Arrow. And I think they pick up new viewers via Netflix which makes me wonder if they promoted both even half as much as the Flash what would happen. I dunno.

[Morrigan2575]

26 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I saw some statistics that it's one of the most popular shows on Netflix just below Arrow. And I think they pick up new viewers via Netflix which makes me wonder if they promoted both even half as much as the Flash what would happen. I dunno.

I was editing my reply and then got distracted, started watching Hillywood Parody and the Eye of the Tiger. I can't help but think that's THE big difference between Arrow/SPN. SPN by necessity reached out to the fans and, you get the general feeling that these guy really appreciate the fans for sticking with them. It's no secret that Dawn O hated SPN and treated it horribly.

Arrow was never in that position. It was never the ratings flagship that passed from TVD to Flash but, it was good enough to get attention/care in S1-3. However, now it's over shadowed by Flash and Supergirl and has to compete with LoT for scraps (which LoT gets more of since they're still trying to build an audience. They can no longer rely on The CW to promote them and they just pissed off their biggest SM promoters, so now they got nothing.

I agree that SPN could benefit from more promotion.  I haven't looked at the cable ratings in awhile but, there were years when SPN made the list of top 50 cable programs on a daily basis (reruns on TNT). I get the feeling that the CW just figures why bother? The can't launch a new successful show that's not DC and even those are hurting this season.

Right now, i think they're probably sitting there going man thank god SPN is steady. ?

[GirlvsTV]

1 hour ago, arjumand said:

Now that you mention it, thinking back - yes, the summer after season 3 was amazing. There was the comicon appearance with the new Arrow costume, Stephen's WWE appearance - it seemed like every week there was something new going on. And even though season 3 as a whole seemed like such a downer, it ended on such a positive note, and it was followed by all the publicity bonanza that it was obvious everyone would be excited for Season 4.

What would you do at this point, if you were there, on the spot? I'm hearing that all of the CW just has one social media person - what can she do to turn this around?

If the goal was to get back to trending during the episode, in the short term I'd do whatever was needed to increase engagement. Having the cast live tweet the way they do for pretty much every Agents of Shield episode would be a good place to start. Also, prepping media in advance (images, GIFs) from the ep to post during the airing would encourage others to share that media which would help increase impressions and reach. Responding to and engaging with fans from the CW Arrow account would also help. If I were really desperate, I'd do 'give-away' posts like 200rts = a bts pic with Stephen and Emily or something.

Then I'd spend a little time trying to win back the sm base that was lost because they are not totally gone, just mad. Identifying the most popular fan 'influencers' and reaching out to them specifically would be a good start. As the pr rep I'd have no control over the content, but I'd definitely be advising/encouraging the show runners to adjust their talking points and stop alienating their fans on both sides. Or, I'd just tell them to stop talking full stop. A lot of the 'drama' with all this could have been avoided if the lack of buzz had been investigated earlier and statements about season 5 altered a bit. Arrow hasn't really had to 'work' for their sm buzz since s1-2. I think they just took it for granted.

ETA: I'd also encourage the cast to get back to posting bts pics and snapchats like they did at the end of last season. Despite the potential for minor spoilers getting out, that kind of stuff really helps create buzz. Even the minor spoilers help because everyone will talk about what they mean ad naseum until the ep actually airs. Really, now that I think about it, not having that stuff out there once shooting started back probably accounts for A LOT of the hiatus buzz drop off.

If it is true the CW only has Chico for all this . . . Well, as trivial as sm may seem it can be very time consuming. If there is only one person across all the shows to handle traditional and digital media, I think it would be extremely difficult to give Arrow's the time and focus it clearly needs to improve.

Also, I know everyone piles on Chico, but it is possible the direction of the promotion for this season came from someone above her. She doesn't work in a vacuum, even if it was her idea I'm sure she had to get approval before executing it.

Edited October 15, 2016 by GirlvsTV

[TwistedandBored]

Arrow's twitter page has always sucked in promoting the show. At least it did for me. However, SA, DR, PB, and occasionally others used to cover that by giving the fans good photos every Friday and videos with TA or SA/DR. Engaging these fans in a positive way. This year it is different. There is void and I don't know if it is just me who feels it. Like the fans are begging them for photos of TA or anything positive really and they are not being appreciated at all. 

 

I don't even know if I am explaining this right or not. 

[lemotomato]

Bamford's turn at damage control

[looptab]

Quote

The other important thing is, especially with Twitter, if it’s not something people are willing to attach their name to, why would I take it seriously?

He just can't help throwing shade at Twitter, can he? LOL

[arjumand]

3 minutes ago, looptab said:

The other important thing is, especially with Twitter, if it’s not something people are willing to attach their name to, why would I take it seriously?

 

3 minutes ago, looptab said:

He just can't help throwing shade at Twitter, can he? LOL

Is this MG? Sigh. I just checked to be sure, and he's 2 years younger than me. I mean, is he for real? Twitter users' wish for anonymity is what bothers him? Let's leave aside the fact that there's been a huge number of people harassed because of their opinions online- did I say people? I meant women, actually, sometimes even for something as innocuous as wanting an image of Jane Austen on the £10 notes (yes, threats of rape ensued), which becomes exponentially worse when you've given out your real name and surname.

The fact remains, there's a long and honourable tradition of the pen name in literature (fun fact - first edition of Sense and Sensibility was 'by a Lady'), so whenever I come across these screeds I just roll my eyes.

Ugh, I don't know why I'm letting this get to me, and I'm verging on OT here. Fact remains, even though apparently social media is dictated by the network, not showrunners, I still believe the producers could do something about it if they recognized its importance in contemporary tv. But they don't. Yes, ratings are in the toilet, but that's those crazy fans. They'll come around.

[looptab]

No, it's a Stephen's quote that tvecho had posted upthread. Stephen's crusade against twitter is always behind the corner :)

And yeah, it's discouraging that the reasons for anonimity aren't understood, for all the reasons you stated. :/

[Morrigan2575]

13 hours ago, TwistedandBored said:

Arrow's twitter page has always sucked in promoting the show. At least it did for me. 

There was a time around end of S2 and through the summer before S3 where they had someone handling Arrow's SM and, they were good.  People used to refer to them as "the intern" they could very well have been a summer intern but, they did a really good job of engaging people on Twitter/tumblr.