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Love (2016) - General Discussion

yeswedo

By yeswedo
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zxy556575
zxy556575

I'm not sure I can even articulate how much I hated this. That's not to say it wasn't well made, well acted, or funny. It may have been any or some of those things but I was too disgustedly bored to n

hincandenza
hincandenza

Gus can be so frustrating; in that scene in the trailer when he brings the gift, I actually shouted at my TV "Oh my god, just fucking leave you spaz!".  He's a decent person, but he *is* passive-aggre

Boundary
Boundary

I binged this one (compared to a 13 hour marathon with House of Cards or Daredevil this was a walk in the park, a 5 hour-ish lie-in on the couch) but I didn't love it, not really. I liked it well enou

zxy556575

zxy556575

I'm not sure I can even articulate how much I hated this. That's not to say it wasn't well made, well acted, or funny. It may have been any or some of those things but I was too disgustedly bored to notice. The "real" relationships and sex as being shown in Casual and Difficult People and You're The Worst and Girls and Girlfriend's Guide to Divorce and etc. -- it's not weird or naughty or freeing. It's crass, boring, stale and much, much too self-consciously aware of how daring it's supposed to be.

 

It's not even about the characters being likable or relatable, although they're not; it's more about obnoxiousness and focusing on warts-and-all sex just because you can. The attempt to be so jadedly adult makes it come off as very junior high to me.

 

Another show to add to the discard pile. I'm definitely not the target audience, though, so there's that.

  • Love 5
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ElectricBoogaloo

ElectricBoogaloo

Mickey's ex was gross on so many levels. This is a guy who (1) sneaks into her room at night (2) wants her back so she will take care of him (3) has substance abuse issues (4) has his mom pick him up and buy him pants and then (5) cleans himself up and has her meet him at some weird hippie cult meeting. No, thanks.

 

Gus's girlfriend clearly wasn't into him, but I immediately disliked him for bringing up the rug while having sex with her. Maybe I'm too picky but discussion about purchasing household goods is not my idea of sexy talk.

 

The one thing I did appreciate about this episode is that even though the show is obviously going to be about Mickey and Gus's relationship with each other, they didn't force them upon us (together) until the very end, which gave us the opportunity to see what each of their lives were like first.

 

Nice to see Mahandra from Wonderfalls, even if very briefly!

  • Love 1
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ElectricBoogaloo

ElectricBoogaloo

Parts of this episode made me feel like they wanted it to be similar to Before Sunrise. The main thing I liked is that it showed even when two people aren't instant BFFs from the moment they meet, they can still become friends.

 

Bonus points for going to Rally's. Cha-CHING! I still remember all the rumors that the cha-ching guy died in a car accident, only to see him pop up as Oz on Buffy the Vampire Slayer years later.

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ElectricBoogaloo

ElectricBoogaloo

The only scene with him that I really enjoyed was the one where he is on the set of that ridiculous witch series, trying to tutor a spoiled child actress. I thought the threesome-storyline was particularly bad.

I liked that Gus was the only one who was even remotely trying to enforce the law and make sure that the girl was getting her required three hours of school. I don't know how much of that was about him being the kind of guy who follows the rules vs giving a shit about this girl's education, but everyone else's attitudes show exactly why child labor laws exist on set.

 

Heh, the only good part about the threesome was Gus saying, "Is it happening?"

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ElectricBoogaloo

ElectricBoogaloo

I loved seeing Jonathan from Buffy again! It will be fun if we keep getting these kinds of appearances throughout the season.

 

Even though Gus blaming music and movies for our warped views of love reminded me of Rob in High Fidelity, it also tied in nicely with what Mickey said the night before at the Bliss House meeting.  Heh, I knew he would regret throwing all those movies out the window though.

 

And I have to admit that I felt a moment of kinship with Gus because sometimes I care about the special features too!

  • Love 1
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Boundary

Boundary

(edited)

I binged this one (compared to a 13 hour marathon with House of Cards or Daredevil this was a walk in the park, a 5 hour-ish lie-in on the couch) but I didn't love it, not really. I liked it well enough, in the sense that I'm always curious about where the story goes once I start. But I wasn't invested, not like I was with Dev and Rachel on Master of None. One reason for that is that, like one PTV reviewer pointed out, it felt so written. To be fair that review was only referring to the pilot episode and it went on to offer praise for the remainder but I'll take that concept expand it a little. To me, Gus and Mickey, especially, weren't characters, they were concepts. It's like Apatow, Rust and Arfin had something to say and these characters were going to end up at some predetermined place, regardless of what kind of people they turned out to be.

 

Before I make this sound like a pseudo thinkpiece, let's revert to basic impulses. I don't think Mickey loved, or even thought she loved, Gus. For different reasons, I'd say she should put Gus in the same pile as her boss, whom she slept with in order to keep her job. She didn't like anything about Gus at all, not his hobbies, not his friends, not his character. So it was a total surprise to me when she flipped over what was, at best, a fling. In fact, I thought the odds favoured Gus and Heidi, at least she seemed to stop and think about what he was about. But that had to be dismissed as a "set crush" because Heidi was not the main character. 

 

The series spent a long time telling us what a mess up Mickey is. I've stated on many threads how I hate addiction stories but I did appreciate how this was more alluded to than depiction. It allowed Mickey to be as functionally trashed as she was without asking us for sympathy. And the actress was really good. It's just that the story didn't sell her side of the supposed romance very well. While on Master of None (that comparison again) I was devastated with the break up, it was because I saw Dev and Rachel being goofy, discussing sexism, meeting each other's family, arguing, having sex, etc. All within a similar 10 episodes (even though Rachel showed up only a couple of times in the first half of the series). The reason why this comparison is simple is because both shows are about a modern relationship of an early 30s couple and have a few things to say about the world that generation lives in. 

 

Season 1 was successful in conveying a few things: Gus' nice guy act is just a put on and Mickey needs a timeout for a bit of introspection and simultaneously learning to be less selfish and be more considerate to her friends; she's really lucky to still have some. Hopefully in the second season a bit more effort is spent putting Gus on that 'friends list' and even then, that there are in fact reasons he is more than a friend with benefits. I don't need characters to be nice to get invested but I still need a bit more from Apatow & Co. before I jump in with both feet.

Edited by Boundary
  • Love 7
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crashboom

crashboom

(edited)

I just finished watching this-- and have come to the conclusion that, all in all, I don't really like it much. I agree Gillian Jacobs is great. And I really enjoyed Bertie's character and the actress playing her, I found her far funnier than anything else in the show. I thought the pilot was not good but liked the second episode, and everything after that was mostly middling.

 

My biggest hang-up is Gus (and Paul Rust). I never heard of the guy before watching this, but the series seems way too much like Paul Rust's fantasy fodder. It is incredibly unconvincing that a guy that ugly, awkward, and dorky is not only scoring with but being actively chased by all of these model hot women. The sister threesome, the girl at the housewarming party, Heidi, and of course Mickey. It'd be one thing if he had an interesting personality or any charisma but he really doesn't; the most charm he showed was when singing and playing guitar, which is maybe why they had so many scenes of him doing so. Still not enough to justify him having such pull with the ladies. He and Mickey were only mildly interesting together and got less so as the series went on.

 

Another problem was the diversity. Tracie Thoms was the only actor of color given a substantial role (and she was wonderful). They tried the whole meta thing with the black craft services guy and the Dave Chapelle/You've Got Mail reference, but I didn't find it cute when the show just perpetuated it. Mickey with Bobby Lee's character was more of the same thing. Lame.

 

It was an easy enough watch but nothing about it made me excited to see more. Master of None had its flaws but at least I was invested in the end and left wanting to see where everything goes-- with this, I can't imagine it going anywhere very interesting. I probably won't watch a second season of this unless I'm really bored.

Edited by crashboom
  • Love 14
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Freelancer

Freelancer

(edited)

I'm up to episode 5, and IMO, this one was the weakest of the bunch so far. If you're kind of into it but not in love, I recommend that you keep watching. I find both Paul Rust and Gillian Jacobs to be completely absorbing. Great performances.

Edited by Freelancer
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stanleyk

stanleyk

Glad to see I'm not alone - maybe it was a mistake to binge the first ten episodes, but by the end I actively disliked the series and have probably reached the end of my tolerance for projects with Apatow's fingerprints on them (Freaks and Geeks bought a lot of goodwill, but it's not ever-lasting).

 

I've enjoyed most of the recent spate of shows about relationships among terrible people (Casual, You're the Worst, Difficult People) - I don't need to like the characters or find them relatable or sympathetic in order to enjoy a show. But I found I disliked Mickey and detested Gus by the end, to the extent where I was actively rooting against them, which I don't imagine is where the show wants its viewers to go. I didn't want to spend any more time in their company. At all. They're completely toxic and appear to make each other more toxic, and not in any way I found entertaining or insightful. I found them both incredibly tiresome (though I recognize that Gillian Jacobs is objectively good in the show - it's the writing and concept that are the problems). Their "connection," such as it is, doesn't seem to be based on much more than Gus finding her hot and her wanting to try a "nice guy." And them having the same generic rug (a symbol of their One Trueness, apparently). Am I supposed to care about them being together? I honestly am not sure, because it's hard to believe the show failed so spectacularly if that was its aim.

 

And I really hated the rom-com ending. Really, REALLY hated it. So Mickey, who at least showed a modicum of self-awareness and growth as the series went on, realizes it would be best for her to take a step back, and then runs to their meet-cute spot based on an Instagram photo because she and Gus are so in tune (barf) and Gus reacts by grabbing her and kissing her. And I guess the audience is supposed to clap and cheer? Even if it had followed that kiss with a Graduate-back-of-the-bus-like beat of "....oh fuck, what have we gotten ourselves into," I would have liked it so much more. I just don't know what the show is trying to say about love and relationships, because what it says to me is profoundly trite and uninteresting, and I'd like to give it credit for at least trying to do something better.

 

I also agree that it played ike a dorky man's fantasy (like many of Apatow movies) - dweebish, immature, unpleasant man of at best middling levels of attractiveness is somehow able to score multiple women well out of his league, both in looks and personality. And it wasn't because of his accomplishments or intelligence or sense of humor - he was awful. His behavior on both the date with Bertie and the one with Mickey was terrible. His behavior at work was terrible. His behavior with Heidi was terrible. Mickey's not exactly a prize, either, which I suppose is part of the point, but at least you can see the basis for some of her broken self. Gus just...sucks. Fundamentally.

 

I might be talking myself into hating it even more than I did when I finished it. It's kind of actually making me sort of mad.

  • Love 15
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CofCinci

CofCinci

I ended the season without any positive regard for the main characters. Almost made it to the end with some likability for Gus but he opted to take advantage of Mickey's vulnerability to punish women for how they emasculated him through the course of the day.

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Dave in Chicago

Dave in Chicago

Three episodes in and I'm pretty split on this - I love a lot of the cast, but the slow burn approach is something that is smart on paper but frustrating in practice. Netflix shouldn't have guaranteed them a second season from the start, because that means they were able to double down on taking the long road. The last thing Judd Apatow needed was a larger canvas and less reason to edit.

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Penman61

Penman61

(edited)

As a single exception to the usual status/looks economics of coupling, I certainly would have believed that a Gus and a Mickey would get together.

 

What I couldn't buy was ALL these women throwing themselves at Gus, who was not cast or written to have some special charm to offset his goofy (but to me personally, adorable) looks.

 

Yes, there are exceptions to the status/looks economics always adding up; but those are exceptions.  Once the sisters and then the Canadian hot actress were literally on top of Gus begging for his sex, it was just too many examples to believe.   We're once again in Apatow & Co.'s well-worn territory of the schlubby dude attracting sex with all kinds of hot women.   It's just weird, and I don't like to think about the unpleasant psychological crosscurrents driving such characterizations.

 

Also, the rom-dramedy ending belonged on a rom-dramedy.  

Edited by Penman61
  • Love 5
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Freelancer

Freelancer

I just finished this episode, and it was my least favorite so far. I understand why they did it, in terms of establishing how self-destructive/lost Mickey is, but it was frivolous and meandering. I really like this series so very much, but this episode was disappointing and really felt like filler.

  • Love 1
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stagmania

stagmania

I also agree that it played ike a dorky man's fantasy (like many of Apatow movies) - dweebish, immature, unpleasant man of at best middling levels of attractiveness is somehow able to score multiple women well out of his league, both in looks and personality. And it wasn't because of his accomplishments or intelligence or sense of humor - he was awful. His behavior on both the date with Bertie and the one with Mickey was terrible. His behavior at work was terrible. His behavior with Heidi was terrible. Mickey's not exactly a prize, either, which I suppose is part of the point, but at least you can see the basis for some of her broken self. Gus just...sucks. Fundamentally.

 

I might be talking myself into hating it even more than I did when I finished it. It's kind of actually making me sort of mad.

 

All of this, so much. I was staring at my screen in disbelief when Mickey was giving her big apology to Gus. She was apologizing to him, even though his behavior toward her starting with their date was pretty much across the board appalling and unkind in the extreme. Am I supposed to think there's any kind of future for them? Am I supposed to be happy that asshole Gus is ready to try again with Mickey now that his other options have disappeared? Am I supposed to be excited at the prospect of another season of this mess?

 

It's a real shame, because there are elements of this show I really liked. Gillian Jacobs was fantastic, even when the writing for her character was confounding. Bertie was delightful, and I enjoyed the dynamic with Gus's group of friends. I even liked the specificity of Gus's hobbies and interests-he felt like a real person to me. 

 

I guess I just don't really get the larger intent of this story-I doubt the idea was to make me hate Gus, but that's where I landed. All the press I've seen around this show pitches it as the story of a nice guy nerd who just can't help falling for a destructive, damaged woman. And maybe that characterization held true for the first few episodes, but it had turned on its head for me by the end. And while I think some of that must have been intentional, I think the show may have miscalculated the extent to which Gus became an irredeemable, unrootable asshole. 

  • Love 5
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Kenz

Kenz

I gave it a try. The dialogue had f*** and f****ing in practically every sentence. That's boring and lazy writing. The sex scenes were stupid. The characters were unlikable. Yuck.

  • Love 1
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