The NBA

[LexieLily]

4 hours ago, Magog said:

If only James Harden would of found a way to win Game 6 or Game 7. The Rockets were winning both games at halftime & Harden couldn't get them home either time. It also didn't help that he & the Rockets were bricking lots of 3 pointers in both games (going 0-27 in game 7). I'm still mad at James Harden for that.

I'm mad at Harden, Trevor Ariza, PJ Tucker, Gerald Green, everyone that was missing shots -  but Klay Thompson and/or Draymond Green undercut Harden at least three times on stepback threes (the Zaza Pachulia/Kawhi rule) with no call, and the Rockets lost Game 7 by nine. Scott Foster was the crew chief ref, of course.

...yes, I'm still bitter about that game, don't mind me. 

So, yeah, I didn't really have much patience for the play-by-play guys, and then Shaq and Kenny and Charles, talking about how Milwaukee was at one point 0-for-11 on threes in Game 1 and how they needed to try something else. Talk to me when they go 0-for-27 :P

(Speaking of Scott Foster, CP3 is now 0-for-11 in his last 11 playoff games officiated by that guy :/)

[Lady Whistleup]

LOL on twitterverse they've been calling Giannis "Greek Cheeks" after his unimpressive showing last night. 

[xaxat]

 

[Lady Whistleup]

I think Jokic is a good player but I'm kind of surprised he was the runaway MVP choice. I feel like Joel Embiid, Kawhi Leonard, and Luka Doncic have strong cases for MVP too. Embiid and Kawhi are holding rather fragile rosters in contention for a ring, and Doncic is probably the NBA's new It player.

[LexieLily]

Embiid missed twenty-one games, and Leonard and Doncic's teams had good but not spectacular seasons/records. (Though I would put either Kawhi or Luka in the top three of the race over Steph Curry, whose Warriors barely limped into a .500 record and the play-in series.) But I agree with you that for an MVP Jokic had a low-key and not very flashy season. I don't mind him as a winner, though, especially considering he was the forty-first pick in his draft :)

ATL turned this into a game after Philly took the big lead in the first, and Trae Young hasn't gone off. 

Edited June 9, 2021 by LexieLily

[twoods]

I didn’t realize Jokic’s stats this season but wow with almost averaging a triple double. Denver would be shit without him so congrats to him.

[Danny Franks]

12 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I think Jokic is a good player but I'm kind of surprised he was the runaway MVP choice. I feel like Joel Embiid, Kawhi Leonard, and Luka Doncic have strong cases for MVP too. Embiid and Kawhi are holding rather fragile rosters in contention for a ring, and Doncic is probably the NBA's new It player.

I think Jokic wows people more because he plays like a much smaller guy, and the team runs through him, rather than relying on him to finish everything off. People just don't expect a guy who looks like him to play that way. And particularly now, with Jamal Murray going down, they haven't missed a beat.

But I agree that Embiid and Doncic have been great as well. I haven't really followed Kawhi, but one of the things that bugged me about him in the past was that he seemed to take every other game off.

[Carey]

Hawks X (Nuggets + Clippers)  > Bucks

That pretty much sums up how the second round of the postseason has played out to this point.

The MVP award didn’t surprise me either; as mentioned, the eventual winner was a perfect example of what the award is all about.  Denver’s done without Jokic.  In the past, you’d see it go to the hot, popular player & from the best team with the best record coupled with very good key players.

Cowherd pretty much summed it up best on Tuesday when he said that it wasn’t such a meaningful prize.  Not sure I’d agree, and I don’t necessarily think he’s wrong, but he gave such valid points.  The regular season and the playoffs are two different parts of a typical year.  Not just in the NBA, but in the NFL and the NHL.  Nonetheless, it was nice to see Jokic get his.

Hopefully the next game will be as exciting and/or competitive as the Jazz & LAC game was, but it is nice to see the best teams battling it out at this point, regardless of whether or not they have the stars that the average viewer can recognize
 

[mojoween]

I know Utah is probably the unsexiest pick possible, but Quin Snyder was my very first basketball boyfriend when he was a sophomore at Duke, so I gotta root for the Jazz.

And the networks will weep.

[Lady Whistleup]

Pacers' coach got the ax.

[Danny Franks]

I'm pulling for the Sixers now, because Embiid is so great to watch and seems like a cool person. But honestly, anyone except the Nets can win and I'll be happy enough.

I want to see Harden retire without a ring, just so people can forever argue about stats vs championships.

[Lady Whistleup]

16 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

I'm pulling for the Sixers now, because Embiid is so great to watch and seems like a cool person. But honestly, anyone except the Nets can win and I'll be happy enough.

I want to see Harden retire without a ring, just so people can forever argue about stats vs championships.

I've actually heard a few "Joel Embiid is an asshole" stories but I have no idea how true they are. His relationship with Ben Simmons supposedly is not good.

[emma675]

40 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

I'm pulling for the Sixers now, because Embiid is so great to watch and seems like a cool person. But honestly, anyone except the Nets can win and I'll be happy enough.

I love the Sixers so I'm pulling for them, but Embiid is pretty polarizing. I like him, but I can also see why others don't. I really enjoy watching a lot of their players (Thybulle on defense is insane to watch), they have a diverse amount of talent and a lot of big personalities, so their games are rarely dull. 

[Lady Whistleup]

4 minutes ago, emma675 said:

I love the Sixers so I'm pulling for them, but Embiid is pretty polarizing. I like him, but I can also see why others don't. I really enjoy watching a lot of their players (Thybulle on defense is insane to watch), they have a diverse amount of talent and a lot of big personalities, so their games are rarely dull. 

I think Joel is fun to watch but his whininess towards the refs is a real turn-off. Lebron James and Luka Doncic are the same way. They're all big guys and this is playoff basketball -- they can expect to be defended very aggressively. 

Matisse Thybulle's defense is great but I feel like in order to become a starter OR to get more minutes he's going to need to develop better offense. Part of the job of any second unit is to score dependably when the starters are resting.

[cambridgeguy]

1 hour ago, Danny Franks said:

I want to see Harden retire without a ring, just so people can forever argue about stats vs championships.

It's not much of an argument.  This isn't baseball or football - you want to crack the inner circle then you have to win a championship.  There's a reason why Barkley, Malone, Stockton, Nash, Ewing, etc. aren't mentioned in the same breath as Bird, Magic, MJ, etc.  Dirk and Garnett without a ring aren't thought of as well as they are now, even if all their numbers were the same.

 

[Lady Whistleup]

I don't see the Sixers beating the Nets. They can take it to 6 games or maybe even 7 but their entire offense runs through Joel Embiid and to a lesser extent Tobias Harris.

We've seen how if scoring goes through one person, that team can be shut down with more aggressive playoff defense. See: the Blazers, Mavs, and Bucks.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Lady Whistleup

[mojoween]

I was watching Sixers/Hawks highlights and for a hot minute I thought they were All-Star Game highlights based on the unis.

[LexieLily]

Good for Milwaukee for not folding completely after being embarrassed in Game 2 and blowing a 21-point lead in the first quarter tonight, but they played it even the rest of the way and barely won on a last-second shot by Holiday. I still have BKN winning this series in 5.

Edited June 11, 2021 by LexieLily

[Lady Whistleup]

57 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

Good for Milwaukee for not folding completely after being embarrassed in Game 2 and blowing a 21-point lead in the first, but they barely won on a last-second shot by Holiday. I still have BKN winning this series in 5.

That was a night of fugly basketball. I usually don't believe the rumors of point shaving but games like this I almost believe it, because it's as if neither team wanted to win. The 86-83 score is one that would have embarrassed the 1990's Knicks. 

On the Bucks reddit there was a lot of talk about whether some of the Bucks might have been throwing the game because they want Bud fired and perhaps a different offensive scheme. 

[Carey]

1 hour ago, LexieLily said:

Good for Milwaukee for not folding completely after being embarrassed in Game 2 and blowing a 21-point lead in the first, but they barely won on a last-second shot by Holiday. I still have BKN winning this series in 5

Man, whatever happens tonight, it's a matter of when, not if in terms of Milwaukee's second round exit.  Maybe not in 5, but no way the Bucks win each of their 3 games at home

[LexieLily]

6 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

That was a night of fugly basketball. I usually don't believe the rumors of point shaving but games like this I almost believe it, because it's as if neither team wanted to win. The 86-83 score is one that would have embarrassed the 1990's Knicks. 

On the Bucks reddit there was a lot of talk about whether some of the Bucks might have been throwing the game because they want Bud fired and perhaps a different offensive scheme. 

At the end of the game the commentators (geez, the game just finished and I already forgot who the play-by-play guys were, what does that say?) were saying that the Bucks should be pleased with this because they won even when they didn't play well; Brooklyn played just as awful as they did for most of the game. I wouldn't be too confident if I were the Bucks.

If they wanted Bud fired wouldn't they have fired him last summer when Milwaukee was thoroughly outplayed by Miami in the second round?

Edited June 11, 2021 by LexieLily

[Lady Whistleup]

1 minute ago, LexieLily said:

At the end of the game the commentators (geez, the game just finished and I already forgot who the play-by-play guys were, what does that say?) were saying that the Bucks should be pleased with this because they won even when they didn't play well; Brooklyn played just as awful as they did for most of the game. I wouldn't be too confident if I were the Bucks.

Yeah, they were saying KD had maybe his worst game in a long time. And he had 30 points, 12 rebounds, and 4 assists. 

I still think Nets in 5 or 6. Bucks if they're lucky can eek out another win but I don't see them winning another 3. 

Giannis appears to be a wonderful, kind, humble young man but damn if he doesn't have the worst shot selection ever. Bricking one jumper after another. Getting called for a 10 second violation at the line. This is stuff that should not be happening to a two-time MVP. Like everyone has bad games but I do notice that the elite players of the league have much better shot selection than him. 

[LexieLily]

19 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Giannis appears to be a wonderful, kind, humble young man but damn if he doesn't have the worst shot selection ever. Bricking one jumper after another. Getting called for a 10 second violation at the line. This is stuff that should not be happening to a two-time MVP. Like everyone has bad games but I do notice that the elite players of the league have much better shot selection than him. 

To the point where the fans when they were in Brooklyn, and even Miami in the first round, were counting down from ten to one to psych him out. Heh. And, yeah, Khris Middleton isn't going to have that kind of game again, and he and Giannis accounted for basically all of Milwaukee's scoring.

[Lady Whistleup]

4 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

To the point where the fans when they were in Brooklyn, and even Miami in the first round, were counting down from ten to one to psych him out. Heh. And, yeah, Khris Middleton isn't going to have that kind of game again, and he and Giannis accounted for basically all of Milwaukee's scoring.

Yeah you kind of wonder if it's a mental thing at this point. I notice the elite free throw shooters seem to have a very short, perfunctory warmup before they shoot. Giannis has the long hold, the slow dribbles, another hold, then (usually) a clanked free throw. 

Also weird who struggles with free throws and who doesn't. Like why do Joel Embiid or Nikola Jokic have no trouble with FT's but Ben Simmons and Luka struggle? 

[LexieLily]

2 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Also weird who struggles with free throws and who doesn't. Like why do Joel Embiid or Nikola Jokic have no trouble with FT's but Ben Simmons and Luka struggle? 

That is a very good question. Luka is young enough that you can count it as a down year and even if not he can be trained, but Ben, Giannis, etc. have been in the league for years and haven't gotten better. Dwight still hasn't gotten significantly better. Shaq never did. 

[Lady Whistleup]

4 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

That is a very good question. Luka is young enough that you can count it as a down year and even if not he can be trained, but Ben, Giannis, etc. have been in the league for years and haven't gotten better. Dwight still hasn't gotten significantly better. Shaq never did. 

Joel Embiid is someone who started off with an okayish stat (78% his rookie year) and has gotten better every year. But some people just struggle. Like Lebron is getting worse. 

By the way Shaq tells the story of how his free throw woes started:

This Jazz/Clippers game is fun. Reggie Jackson is singlehandedly keeping the Clippers within shooting distance. 

[xaxat]

On 6/4/2021 at 11:29 PM, xaxat said:

OK, this ad got a lot more awkward in the last couple of days.

 

I appears I wasn't the only one who thought so. The new version of the ad cuts out the coach segment.

[Lady Whistleup]

So I guess the Clippers are only activated when they go down 0-2 in a series?

[LexieLily]

1 hour ago, Lady Whistleup said:

So I guess the Clippers are only activated when they go down 0-2 in a series?

I said before that I was going to spot them one game for Kawhi/PG to go into superstar mode; can they keep it going?

I see Brooklyn smashing Milwaukee tomorrow, tbh. KD and Kyrie and the other Net guys won't shoot as bad as they did in Game 3, Khris Middleton won't shoot as well.

[Danny Franks]

1 hour ago, LexieLily said:

I see Brooklyn smashing Milwaukee tomorrow, tbh. KD and Kyrie and the other Net guys won't shoot as bad as they did in Game 3, Khris Middleton won't shoot as well.

Prepare for all the "Giannis to demand trade" stories to ramp up again if that happens. But it's not surprising that the Bucks, a sensibly built team, is struggling against the Monstars, a team built through petulance and the ability for three guys who desperately want rings to put their egos to one side for at least a season.

[LexieLily]

3 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

Prepare for all the "Giannis to demand trade" stories to ramp up again if that happens. 

I thought he just signed his super-max extension this summer or last summer.

[Carey]

7 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Prepare for all the "Giannis to demand trade" stories to ramp up again if that happens.

He better not!

 

And, LexieLily, you're right: he did sign a huge deal not too long ago.  Sure I'm not going to be the guy to tell Antetokounmpo what to do.  However, he had the best chance to exit Milwaukee to go to a contender.  Imagine if Klay doesn't get injured or Steph is healthy.  A move to Golden State would have been scary.  Instead, he "chose to stay loyal" and that had consequences.  To be fair, similar to LeBron's 2nd Cleveland stint (where no one really saw the Warriors juggernaut coming I don't think), I don't think Antetokounmpo saw the development of Brooklyn in advance.  Still, it's way too early to demand a trade.  Unless Mike Budenholzer's successor wants his own guy (at that point, it might work)

 

[Lady Whistleup]

I don;t think Giannis has the skill set to be a real threat during the playoffs. He's extremely talented but the team needs a stronger guard to ramp up their shooting. Also, it will be extremely difficult for him to be traded considering his monster supermax contract.

[LexieLily]

Midway through the second quarter Kyrie Irving went down with a sprained ankle (supposedly Giannis didn't let him land, much like that is an issue on stepback threes) and went to the locker room. 

[Lady Whistleup]

That lookd exactly like a sprain I had about a year ago. I wasn't right for about six months.

[LexieLily]

Kyrie is officially out for the rest of the game, at the very least. According to Steve Nash, Harden still isn't right yet. I see Milwaukee winning this series now, and most likely getting past Philly to make it to the Finals, and I'll be rooting for CP3/Phoenix to win it all.

[Carey]

12 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

Kyrie is officially out for the rest of the game, at the very least. According to Steve Nash, Harden still isn't right yet. I see Milwaukee winning this series now, and most likely getting past Philly to make it to the Finals, and I'll be rooting for CP3/Phoenix to win it all.

I still don't see Milwaukee winning the series, as of right now.  Not saying Brooklyn will lose just because Kyrie went down, but I think we'll get that competitive series that was speculated before the Nets won big early on.

What's Harden's status for the series?  That might be the wildcard, but the Bucks still have to put in some effort on the road with or without Irving.  They should make it to the finals if they escape the series.  Phoenix will be tough for sure, but IMO better the Suns than the Jazz!

[AimingforYoko]

Yeah, the complexion of this series has changed completely. We'll see how serious Irving's injury is, but it looks good for the Bucks right now.

[emmawoodhouse]

X-rays on Kyrie's ankle are negative. He will undergo treatment, but they don't know how much time he'll miss, if any.

[Lady Whistleup]

He'll need an MRI to further assess damage. My X-ray turned out negative too but they didn't X-ray the stress fracture in my foot and also the three torn ligaments.

I hope he comes back because I hate when playoffs come down to who is injured the least.

[emma675]

That Kyrie landing looked painful, I thought he broke it at first because the angle was so bad (it reminded me of Dak Prescott's ankle a little bit). I'll bet he's out for the rest of the playoffs, I imagine he tore ligaments or has an extremely bad sprain, at the very least. 

The Nets seem to have been banking on their big 3 stars to be healthy and then they would be invincible. But I think they've only been all healthy enough to play a handful of games together, which never bodes well for the playoffs. You need to have them all be healthy enough to play dozens of games together and develop a rhythm. Maybe we'll see that with the Nets next season.

[Lady Whistleup]

49 minutes ago, emma675 said:

That Kyrie landing looked painful, I thought he broke it at first because the angle was so bad (it reminded me of Dak Prescott's ankle a little bit). I'll bet he's out for the rest of the playoffs, I imagine he tore ligaments or has an extremely bad sprain, at the very least. 

The Nets seem to have been banking on their big 3 stars to be healthy and then they would be invincible. But I think they've only been all healthy enough to play a handful of games together, which never bodes well for the playoffs. You need to have them all be healthy enough to play dozens of games together and develop a rhythm. Maybe we'll see that with the Nets next season.

Trying to keep track of the injuries during the playoffs:

AD - groin

Chris Paul - shoulder, although he seems to have bounced back

Joel Embiid - knee

James Harden - hamstring

Kyrie - ankle

Luka - neck

ETA: Danny Green - calf

At this point whoever makes it to the finals is going to be held together with tape.

Edited June 14, 2021 by Lady Whistleup

[emma675]

Also, Danny Green is out for at least two weeks with a calf strain.

[Lady Whistleup]

And now Jokic was tossed after a hard foul on Cameron Payne. 

[twoods]

I wonder how much of the pileup of injuries in the season and playoffs have to do with a shortened offseason. It’s a shame for the Nets because when healthy they really are the team to beat. Time for KD to turn it up a notch and get them past the Bucks because by then maybe Harden and Irving will be healthy enough to play.

Edited June 14, 2021 by twoods

[LexieLily]

Chris Paul was Point God as usual in a closeout game to get his team to the Western Conference Finals on the same day that James Harden sat out with a hamstring strain. I'm so happy for CP3 but man this is painful as a Rockets fan. 

[Lady Whistleup]

3 minutes ago, twoods said:

I wonder how much of the pileup of injuries in the season and playoffs have to do with a shortened offseason. It’s a shame for the Nets because when healthy they really are the team to beat. Time for KD to turn it up a notch and get them past the Bucks because by then maybe Harden and Irving will be healthy enough to play.

I definitely think the shortened season is responsible for SOME injuries. For instance, Jamal Murray, Anthony Davis and Lebron James all went deep into the Disney playoffs and all had injuries. 

Anyway I really want Harden and Kyrie to come back, simply because I want the best team to win, not the team with 5 healthy starters. 

Something else I've noticed: it seems as if basketball now favors leaner, wirier frames. In the 1990s guys like Anthony Mason, Dennis Rodman, Shaq, Charles Oakley, etc were BIG guys. One sideswipe from them and you were in trouble.

Nowadays there's a premium on quickness and shooting ability and so guys are lanky. I wonder if their bodies are less able to hold up under playoff defense.

Here's Mason and Ewing:

Durant and Kyrie:

Shaq and Kobe:

Embiid and Simmons:

[Lady Whistleup]

Oops adding to the injuries I forgot Mike Conley (hamstring). Big piece for Utah. 

[Fukui San]

46 minutes ago, twoods said:

I wonder how much of the pileup of injuries in the season and playoffs have to do with a shortened offseason. It’s a shame for the Nets because when healthy they really are the team to beat. Time for KD to turn it up a notch and get them past the Bucks because by then maybe Harden and Irving will be healthy enough to play.

Let’s also remember that the entire bubble final four teams are all out now, with Denver joining the three first round exits. The cumulative wear and tear of a compressed season following a very short offseason can’t be dismissed. 

[Carey]

8 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Oops adding to the injuries I forgot Mike Conley (hamstring). Big piece for Utah. 

Him and Donovan Mitchell.  Though it looks like Donovan will be okay.  We'll see how he performs tonight.  If and when Mike returns, it will take some time to get going (Charles Barkley mentioned that as it related to Harden; when you sit out for so long, you're pretty much rusty & it'll take time to get back into game shape since you can't train properly while out of the game).  Utah is still pretty deep though.

Sucks for the Jazz though, since they were completely healthy and were probably the only team that would've been able to stand up to a previously dominant Nets team (maybe win outright) before all the injuries.

Not to sound morbid, but there is a saying that the future is not promised for anybody.  Same goes for sports and other competitive activities.  Injuries are a part of the game.  Shaq said it best when referring to how anyone else can go down.  It looks like it's over for Brooklyn, and it looks like the 2021 title is Phoenix's to lose.  Injuries can change everything (or in Brooklyn's case, offset their chances if Giannis or Middleton get hurt).

BTW, if the Suns beat four teams that had injury issues, I'm not putting an asterisk on their season.  Fair to question it, but it's totally not their fault or problem.  You play who you play