Show Analysis: Dr Huang Will See You Now

[FormerMod-a1]

The whole Olivia's brother arc is a big ol' egregious breach of procedure for me - from the DNA tests, to the bad car chase, to absolutely everything else.  Even in the Law&Order world of TIP! and many violations being OK, this seemed to exceed that to a great extent and I was surprised the character wasn't fired.  (Well, not really since I knew MH wasn't going anywhere).  It was at this point I seriously cut back on watching, even going seasons w/o watching and only watching an occasional rerun.  I came back with Barba. :)

[RafaelBarba35]

OK I'm gonna be the one to point out someone other than Olivia (since everyone else has that covered). 

 

Munch taking Amy Solway to get an illegal kidney. He would have been in serious trouble if Elliot and Casey didn't have his back.

[dttruman]

The one that bothers me a lot has to do with Fin in "Screwed" and "Venom".  Fin has made numerous speeches to witnesses and victims to come forward and testify against those criminals that have done harm to them and others. Yet in "Venom" he won't let any of his own family members testify because of the skeletons in their family closet.

Concerning Benson and all her screw ups. Does anyone else think that this show has taken a very slanted approach that favors the feminist agenda? It seemed like the writers and producers made Benson's many delays for promotion was because of the male hierarchy on the police force. If I remember right, they used the standard women bashing excuses by men to gain sympathy for Benson. Like a "woman" can't hack it being a detective or a "single mother" can't handle all the duties. What the writers and producers should have mentioned (and this is more realistic) is that Benson's delays for promotion was because of all the rules she broke as mentioned by all the people in this discussion forum concerning this question.

[Xeliou66]

Benson is the worst, she has broken the rules and been stupid numerous times. The episodes with her half brother were the worst, she should've been fired. Also, the time her and Amaro blatantly covered up for a murderer because they felt sorry for her, totally disgusting and ridiculous. The episode where Benson outed the gay football player was another example of terrible police work. The Calvin episodes were another example of Benson's egregious rule breaking. Amaro, Rollins and Stabler all have numerous rule breaking instances as well. I agree I didn't like how Fin was in the Darius storyline either and he's by the book usually. 

I miss Cragen, he would usually keep the detectives in line. Munch was a good cop who didn't break rules much either. Now we have Carisi and Fin who are good, but they get nothing, the show is mostly Benson personal crap with her constant unprofessional and irritating behavior, and her bullying the squad and Barba into doing her bidding. 

[wknt3]

There really are too many to list. You either have to pick an example you find exceptionally annoying or break it down into broad categories. I'm going with the later approach. In the past 10 seasons -

1. Every hostage situation. Remember "Runaway" all the way back in Season 2? And what a big deal it was when Cragen varied from standard procedure a bit? Now think about how many times the squad has made things worse by not waiting for backup, ESU, a hostage negotiator, etc. Or created an unnecessary hostage situation by charging in without any consideration of tactics or the safety of themselves or others. You would think at some point they would learn. Has their been a single instance in the past few years where a barricaded suspect was actually handled correctly or at least not made worse?

2. Every situation involving a family member who was not Munch's uncle or Fin's son.

3. Almost every undercover operation. Luckily this as improved somewhat as they no longer have enough cast members or the budget to do this sort of plot much and even Season 17's writers seemed to realize that Lt. Benson who appears on morning news shows and is besties with the VP running a sting is a bridge too far. And when Carisi was at the halfway house it was actually believably done.

4. The treatment of suspects (by Stabler and Amaro especially). Especially given the trouble that others in the L&Overse have gotten into for doing so much less.

5. I'm just kind of assuming here, but with Benson constantly in the field and no second in command there's no way that all the DD-5's, expense reports, etc. have been properly completed and submitted. Even with Benson working 16 hour days. Maybe they ignore the rest, but being 6 months behind on your paperwork? Never.

Edited August 26, 2017 by wknt3

[dttruman]

So far this season, I have found no evidence to support that Michael S. Chernuchin influence has improved this show. The Olivia Benson character continues to dominate most of what goes on almost to the point of absurdity. Apparently they still consider Benson's private life more interesting than the investigation of a "Special Victim". Excellent story lines are being wasted or used improperly so as to give more importance to Benson's personal and professional life or focus on a social issue that may have little significance to the episode's crime.

[TD3000]

Let's play a little game called "SVU brings in loose cannon outside detective to show that they (*cough cough Stabler*) aren't so bad!"

Redemption: It was covered earlier here, but the synopsis even says "Detective Stabler is paired with John "Hawk" Hawkins (David Keith), an unstable, "cowboy" cop, much to Benson's chagrin."

Pandora: The homicide detective working with Elliot was quite harsh while interviewing a young girl and later roughed up a suspect in interrogation.

Dominance: We've seen Det. Dave Duthorne (sp?) a couple times; in this instance he really blows his stack after arresting one of the suspected brothers and holding a gun to his head (Fin has to call him off). Also roughs up the other brother later on in interrogation, but that was "only" standard, run-of-the-mill stuff.

Escape: The deputy marshal Olivia worked with (and used to date) had some cowboy moments.

Fat: Anthony Anderson's detective from Queens SVU (before he joined the mothership as a different character) was quite animated, tried to lie to a teenage girl to get her to talk, and even physically fought Stabler. Cragen later says that he paired the two because he wanted Stabler to get a glimpse of someone who crosses the line like he does.

Baggage: Victor Moran doesn't play well with others and also repeatedly kicks the perp once he's finally caught for good. Semi-understandable because he was dealing with the turmoil of losing his wife and eventually his daughter, but still.

Unstable: Maybe the most appropriate example, as even the title feels like a nod to the "Unstabler" moniker some fans placed on Elliot. Anyways, after being introduced to Officer Nate Kendall as he's shoving a pistol down a suspect's throat, he gets dragged into a SVU case. Kendall barrels through it like a bull in a china shop, all while not exactly following standard SVU protocol. At the end, he may or may not have tossed the real rapist out the window (a later episode acknowledged it as a suicide).

Feel free to add more.

[WineCheeseChocolat]

USA had a “Viewers Choice” marathon yesterday.

Best Judge - Haystack featuring Donnelly defending Stabler and Novak as they were accused of civil rights violations. I love Donnelly but my choice would’ve been Guilt featuring Donnelly at some of her best AND the beginning of the Cabot/Petrovsery animosity.

Most Ridiculous Episode Title - Zebras. In agreement on that.

Best ADA - October Surprise. Ugh, it was just Barba Taking It Personally, he didn’t even get to get into a courtroom. My favorite Barba as ADA episodes were Criminal Hatred, Depravity Standard and Community Policing. My favorite ADA episode overall is Guilt.

Best Undercover Performance - Undercover, which I’m not going to argue with although my favorite was Benson/Stabler undercover in Risk.

Best Emmy-Winning Performance - Cynthia Nixon in the alternate personality episode. Can’t argue with that but I’m honestly on not up on who all has won Emmys.

Best Guest Star Female - The one who killed her parents. Anne something. Don’t remember the actress. My favorite was the teen that played Missy in Damaged. T way she said at the end “You can’t kill me. I’m already dead.” Sent chills down my spine.

Best Guest Star Male - The dude who played the villain in Night. I would pick the guy who played the father in Grief. He was amazing.

Best Benson Episode - PTSD. Not going to argue here. She grappled with her fallout from her near-rape and actually admitted her mistakes. I’m sure I could think of better ones but I’m just glad it wasn’t a St Olivia saves the Day episode.

Best Benson Boyfriend - shouldn’t have even been a category but it was Unholliest Alliance featuring Tucker. I think Cassidy was the best boyfriend, he had to help her through all the post-Lewis trauma and he was a big enough person to be nice to Amaro when he was camping out on their couch.

Best Mama Bear - Spring Awakening when Benson became Noah’s foster mom. I would’ve preferred one that focused on the COTW like Desparate. But I’m just glad it wasn’t the Noah kidnapping episode.

Best Recurring Villian - I would’ve preferred Best Villian since I believe Lewis and Yates were the only recurring one. Lewis was a great villain though. The casting department is good at casting villains.

Really would’ve liked to see some different categories like more ADA categories, Best Defense Attorney (Calhoun!), Best Child Actor, Best Partnership, Best GLBT Episode, Best Ripped From the Headlines...

Edited November 10, 2018 by WineCheeseChocolat

[Picture It. Sicily]

Leslie Caron gave the best guest star Emmy winning performance IMO. Of course MPD is showier than a woman finally freeing herself after a lifetime of burying her pain. Not that Cynthia didn't give a great performance. 

[Chillidog27]

So.....?

[ForeverAlone]

The show has flirted with this idea for a while. To me, I'll assume that NO he did not, but the writers certainly want to be able to pull that card when it suits them for storytelling purposes. Now granted, she experienced a terrifying and horrifying assault, but if the writers were so adamant in the immediate aftermath that he didn't rape her (probably because they wanted to have their cake and eat it too- come RIGHT up to the line of rape, but pull back at the last second, because they didn't really want to go there in their storytelling), they don't get to backtrack now and hint that he did. 

[MrsRafaelBarba]

I caught the comment about praying he didn't climb on top of her again.

Never want to revisit  William Lewis's Reign of Terror on the Viewers.

Was  Benson missing for three days? 

Did the writers retcon a rape into that incident, by slipping that comment in?

[CrystalBlue]

1 hour ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

I caught the comment about praying he didn't climb on top of her again.

Never want to revisit  William Lewis's Reign of Terror on the Viewers.

Was Benson missing for three days? 

Did the writers retcon a rape into that incident, by slipping that comment in?

I caught that too.  As soon as Olivia started explaining to Amanda what it is like to fear, etc., etc., I knew she was talking about William Lewis (and I was proud of myself that I actually remembered not only his full name but the whole saga!).  So, for this new Part 33 scene to make any sense, it would mean either Olivia really was raped by Lewis, which would be a retcon, OR...

During the Lewis Kidnaps Benson Saga storyline, he did climb on top of her, but couldn't actually "perform," so actual rape didn't occur.

[balmz]

12 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

I caught that too.  As soon as Olivia started explaining to Amanda what it is like to fear, etc., etc., I knew she was talking about William Lewis (and I was proud of myself that I actually remembered not only his full name but the whole saga!).  So, for this new Part 33 scene to make any sense, it would mean either Olivia really was raped by Lewis, which would be a retcon, OR...

During the Lewis Kidnaps Benson Saga storyline, he did climb on top of her, but couldn't actually "perform," so actual rape didn't occur.

he might have climbed on her just to taunt her and scare her with the whole will he rape you or won't he

[dttruman]

On 2/9/2019 at 7:13 PM, ForeverAlone said:

The show has flirted with this idea for a while. To me, I'll assume that NO he did not, but the writers certainly want to be able to pull that card when it suits them for storytelling purposes. Now granted, she experienced a terrifying and horrifying assault, but if the writers were so adamant in the immediate aftermath that he didn't rape her (probably because they wanted to have their cake and eat it too- come RIGHT up to the line of rape, but pull back at the last second, because they didn't really want to go there in their storytelling), they don't get to backtrack now and hint that he did. 

If there was any ounce of realism to this incident, Benson would have under gone an examination for her injuries and a check for rape. So we should have known something.

[Monkeybball]

She taunted him at one point saying “what’s wrong wth you? Are you afraid of me?” Because he hadn’t raped her yet. He raped the lawyer’s mom and made her watch, but I don’t believe he ever did her. He would have if the housekeeper didn’t knock of the door, MAYBE, but ultimately didn’t. 

And then when he escaped she told him to rape her but she wouldn’t fight back so he wasn’t into it. That’s when he came up with the Russian roulette.

[ForeverAlone]

During the "Psycho/Therapist" episode where William Lewis is on trial for Olivia's assault, Olivia did say to Rafael that "he didn't have the balls to rape her", and there was no evidence in the rape kit. It's why she was so opposed to him pleading guilty to raping her. So based on show canon, Lewis didn't rape Olivia and there are hospital records to back it up (unless the writers want to go back and say that she lied then to cover it up, but that doesn't really make a whole lot of sense). 

[dttruman]

You guys got damn good memories! I thought I would at least remember some of that stuff from the trial. Then why does Benson almost refer to it as a rape? Didn't Rollins know all about this too? Did MC forget to fact check or like what was said earlier, he "wants his cake and eat it too".

Edited February 11, 2019 by dttruman

[Monkeybball]

They’ve always liked to use this as an example of Benson being sexually assaulted, as a way for her to relate to the victims. It certainly was an assault with heavy sexual overtones, but a full-on rape it was not. Similarly to how they treated her incident in Undercover (although that did meet the criteria for sexual assault, it’s not typically what people would think of when they hear the term). I personally have always been uncomfortable with how they’ve treated her character as a result of these incidents. Olivia’s big thing was that she was the product of a rape - she didn’t need to be assaulted twice in order to understand the victims.

[peacheslatour]

I was just watching the episode Manhunt. The switcheroo Alex Cabot pulls to beat the Canadian extradition laws is everything.

[atlantaloves]

I concur, she has always been my favorite as well, she totally kicks ass.

[peacheslatour]

23 minutes ago, atlantaloves said:

I concur, she has always been my favorite as well, she totally kicks ass.

That speech she gives Stabler "You work at my discretion, Detective. Do your job."

From S/3 Ep. 18 Guilt.

[Xeliou66]

Is there a way to do a poll on this site? Because “Best SVU ADA?” would be a great poll. My favorite of the 4 main ADA’s (Cabot, Novak, Barba, Stone) is Barba, he was an awesome character, very charasmatic, colorful and passionate, I loved him but I hated when they turned him in to more of a Benson puppet than a prosecutor and wound up sort of being glad when Stone took his place because he had been watered down so much.

Edited March 3, 2019 by Xeliou66

[peacheslatour]

23 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Is there a way to do a poll on this site? Because “Best SVU ADA?” would be a great poll. My favorite of the 4 main ADA’s (Cabot, Novak, Barba, Stone) is Barba, he was an awesome character, very charasmatic, colorful and passionate, I loved him but I hated when they turned him in to more of a Benson puppet than a prosecutor and wound up sort of being glad when Stone took his place because he had been watered down so much.

Well, Novak would definitely be my second choice. Barba was good too, Christine Lahti drunk in court was an interesting mess.

[Monkeybball]

I liked Alex especially in the earlier seasons in eps like Manhunt but I think Casey Novak was my favorite. I liked that she was a little more rough around the edges, and I personally think Diane Neal is very beautiful haha.

Barba was the SHIT through season 14 and 15 but the character went to hell in a hand basket cause of Benson. Ugh.

[Joe Hellandback]

Agreed, she's my favourite although also like Elizabeth Rhom and Carey Lowell

[Xeliou66]

I thought I would give my overall thoughts on season 20 and the good and the bad of it.

The Good Parts

There seemed to be more of a focus on investigation in this season, most cases involved detective work and investigation and there were less he said/she said rape cases and more complex cases.

Fin. He’s always awesome, entertaining and the voice of reason.

Carisi. He’s awesome as well, intelligent and reasonable.

Fin and Carisi, the show is it’s best when they are onscreen working together, they are a dynamic duo.

We saw more minor characters this year such as ME’s and CSU people. That was very nice as we haven’t seen as many of them in recent seasons, and they add a lot to the show.

Stone was pretty good until the final episode, he wasn’t used enough but he was solid when he was on.

The Bad Parts

Benson. She’s insufferable and awful in every way. From her constant overdramatic facial expressions and irritating whispering, to her biased outlook on cases and unprofessional behavior to letting her personal views influence her judgment and shoving her views onto victims, to the scenes in almost every episode where the victim turns to her for support and thanks her for being their savior, everything about Benson is just unlikable and painful to watch now.

Noah. He really drags down the show.

The Rollins drama. Writing in her pregnancy was a bad idea and just an excuse for more soapy drama, it detracted from the show. And the scenes between Rollins and Benson where they discussed their personal issues were just brutal to watch.

The destruction of Stone in his final episode. It was an egregious case of character assassination and a horrible exit for Stone, seeing him throw his ethics out the window all because of his feelings for Benson made me sick. I didn’t like Stone’s drinking/womanizing earlier in the season either.

There were few courtroom scenes, we barely saw any trials and Stone was underutilized for the most part. I was very disappointed with this.

The best episodes of the season were Missing, Brothel and Assumptions.

The worst episode of the season was Dearly Beloved, there were several good contenders for this title (End Game, Zero Tolerance, The Good Girl, Plastic) but Dearly Beloved was the worst of the season and one of the worst episodes in SVU history.

Any thoughts/comments?

[ChristiKRN]

Well done, Xeliou 66.  I totally agree that fin and Carisi  are the best dynamic duo since fin and munch.  The only problem with this duo working together is that it matches up benson and Rollins, which is beyond horrendous.  It really emphasizes that they need another detective with benson staying in the office most of the time & becoming more Cragenesque.  However, I’m sure the rabid Benson fans would scream bloody murder if she took a back seat.  I don’t think MH could handle taking a step back; I don’t think Leight will allow it to happen. 

I really don’t remember much in terms of supporting cast; the  highly -touted psychologist was in a couple of episodes only and was never seen again. That role is essential for this unit; I guess the writers felt Benson could also provide this need. 

They focused too much on Stone’s personal life.  They needed to keep him as the ADA that called SVU on their crap and kept him neutral.  Having him frame Miller all because of Benson was absolutely asinine; having the other detectives aid in the framing was also asinine.  We saw Fin commit 2 crimes in 2 of the last three episodes.  Carisi not only risked his job as a detective but he ran the risk of being disbarred.  Rollins...not shocking that she did something illegal although she had the smallest role in the frame job.  

Thankfully, this season is on the rear view mirror now.  Praying for good things next season. 

[Xeliou66]

19 minutes ago, ChristiKRN said:

Well done, Xeliou 66.  I totally agree that fin and Carisi  are the best dynamic duo since fin and munch.  The only problem with this duo working together is that it matches up benson and Rollins, which is beyond horrendous.  It really emphasizes that they need another detective with benson staying in the office most of the time & becoming more Cragenesque.  However, I’m sure the rabid Benson fans would scream bloody murder if she took a back seat.  I don’t think MH could handle taking a step back; I don’t think Leight will allow it to happen. 

I really don’t remember much in terms of supporting cast; the  highly -touted psychologist was in a couple of episodes only and was never seen again. That role is essential for this unit; I guess the writers felt Benson could also provide this need. 

They focused too much on Stone’s personal life.  They needed to keep him as the ADA that called SVU on their crap and kept him neutral.  Having him frame Miller all because of Benson was absolutely asinine; having the other detectives aid in the framing was also asinine.  We saw Fin commit 2 crimes in 2 of the last three episodes.  Carisi not only risked his job as a detective but he ran the risk of being disbarred.  Rollins...not shocking that she did something illegal although she had the smallest role in the frame job.  

Thankfully, this season is on the rear view mirror now.  Praying for good things next season. 

We saw ME’s and CSU people a few times as well as the psych expert. 

SVU really does need another detective to come in, but that would mean less screen time for Benson so that won’t happen. I would love to see Benson take more of a backseat, but since MH has all of the power that won’t happen, it doesn’t matter who the showrunner is IMO, Mariska is the one with the real power. 

Fin and Carisi are awesome together but unfortunately that does mean Benson/Rollins are paired together and those scenes are just brutal to watch.

I agree they focused too much on Stone’s personal life, with his sister in season 19 and then with his drinking/womanizing in season 20. I think the heavy focus on Stone’s personal crap alienated fans from the character. Stone was good as the ADA up until his exit, but I didn’t care for his personal storylines (I don’t like personal crap in general).

The season finale was beyond stupid in so many ways, and it left me with a really bad taste in my mouth.

I hope season 21 is good but I don’t have my hopes up: given Mariska’s ego and power, an uncertain situation regarding the ADA position, and Leight’s love of soapy melodrama, I’m afraid season 21 will be garbage. 

[CrystalBlue]

I give your analysis, Xeliou66, an A+, or five stars if you prefer.  Clear, concise and IMHO all too true.  I'm going to be very late to the season finale party, as it's still on my To Watch list, but it sounds disappointing and not a very good send off for Stone. 

[Xeliou66]

I’m going to post my recap and analysis of season 21 here. This is going to be a long post. 

 

The Positives Of Season 21 

There was a much wider variety of cases, victims and perps. It seemed like the writers really made an effort to give us different kinds of cases instead of the overused he said/she said rich white people cases. This was the most diversity we’ve seen in cases in several seasons - we saw lots of different types of cases and it felt much fresher than what we’ve had in the past. 

The execution of moving Carisi to the ADA slot - for the most part it was done well, I was very concerned about this but for the most part he was very good in the role and did the legal stuff well, and didn’t act as a Benson puppet for the most part. They didn’t give him enough courtroom scenes, something I’ll talk about more in a minute, but overall he did well in the role. 

The addition of a new detective - the show needed some fresh blood and adjustments and bringing in Kat was a good move, it wasn’t smooth at the start but she’s settled in to the role nicely and I’ve come to like the character. So by moving Carisi to the ADA slot and bringing in Kat the show shook things up and for the most part it felt fresher and worked. 

They dialed back the worship of St Olivia a few notches in most episodes. I’m not sure if they heard viewers complaints or not, but she was much more tolerable this season, she acted more as a squad leader and there weren’t as many scenes of her being worshipped. 

Fin. He was good as always, he’s basically the anchor of the show now and can always be counted on to do a good job. 

 

The Negatives Of Season 21

The trashing of the DA’s office. They made the DA’s office look like a bunch of corrupt, inept bureaucrats, and that was terrible writing and an insult to the franchise as a whole. Especially since they didn’t even have the decency to say there was a new DA in office, since at last we heard the DA was McCoy. This was lazy, cheap writing and insulting to the franchise and the viewers. 

Way too much Rollins stuff. Rollins had a boatload of screen time and subplots, and none of them were any good. I’m sick of her personal life, her awful family, the attempt to force unresolved feelings between her and Carisi, and the ridiculous amount of screentime she gets. She’s a writers pet and they are trying to make her the #2 character it seems and I’m just sick of all things Rollins. 

Hadid. One of the worst characters in SVU history - dull, wooden, unsympathetic, without personality and she just served to drag down the show and take away screen time from Carisi. They could’ve made Carisi’s boss interesting, but instead she is beyond dull and drags down the show horribly. I really hope now that Carisi has experience under his belt, we never see her again. 

Not enough courtroom scenes. We only saw trials in 2 episodes, and I really want to see more of Carisi in court, I’m hoping next season, now that Carisi has settled into his role as ADA, we will see more courtroom stuff. 

Killing off Tucker. Unnecessary and it robbed the show of one of its most interesting recurring characters. 

 

Best Episodes of the Season

I Deserve Some Loving Too

Murdered at a Bad Address

At Midnight in Manhattan 

Solving for the Unknowns 

Down Low in Hell’s Kitchen 

 

Worst Episodes of the Season

She Paints for Vengeance 

We Dream of Machine Elves

Can’t Be Held Accountable 

Eternal Relief From Pain

The Burder of our Choices 

 

Any thoughts on this? 

Edited April 26, 2020 by Xeliou66

[wknt3]

On 4/25/2020 at 1:59 AM, Xeliou66 said:

They dialed back the worship of St Olivia a few notches in most episodes. I’m not sure if they heard viewers complaints or not, but she was much more tolerable this season, she acted more as a squad leader and there weren’t as many scenes of her being worshipped. 
 

You've raised plenty of interesting points that I unfortunately don't really have time to address right now so I'm just going to reply to this one. I don't think this is a response to viewer complaints as they've long since written off most of the viewers who care. I think it reflects a shift in leverage and relative power. The writers are pros and can see all the obvious problems we see, The Benson worship started going out of control in the second half of Season 17, dominated Season 18, and has swung back and forth for the last few seasons. I think that if a tell all history is ever written you will find that it reflects behind the scenes struggles and Mariska's creative influence versus that of the showrunner. Leight and Chernuchin were experienced veterans and Leight had a lot of capital after managing to keep things going after Meloni left and resetting the tone after the super campy last Baer years. Eid was a newbie who had no track record as a boss. Also they really needed Mariska to sign a new deal if they wanted to break the Gunsmoke record so she was holding all the cards. So after slowly building during Leight's run that season was all stroking Mariska's ego and pursuing her personal interests. Chernuchin was a veteran with some pull with Wolf and they knew they would break the record and needed to try to keep some casual viewers if they wanted to keep going, but he didn't have a personal relationship with Mariska. So there seemed to be either a tug of war or a deliberate attempt to channel MH's ego. You had a lot more focus on the squad and the DA and even some moments where Benson was wrong (for instance the ESU captain ordering her to stand down when she attempted to take over a hostage situation) and some epsiodes that were all about how Benson was the end all, be all of policing like "Something Happened". I think Leight now has the backing of Wolf and the network to get things under control and make episodes that will play in syndication and not alienate the remaining casual viewers, as well as the relationship with Mariska to sell her on a bit of subtlety.

[balmz]

from a thread on reddit, people were asking if svu were bullies or jerks to the dale stucky character, your personal feelings about the character aside, do you think they were unfair to him?

 

also from tv tropes about the character

 

Though he could be annoying and ultimately became a spree killer, Dale Stuckey did have moments when the abuse heaped on him seemed greatly disproportionate such as when he explained how a teen used spoofing to threaten another girl only for O'Halloran to dismiss it as Stuckey wasting their time or in his final appearance when Stabler physically assaulted him, Stuckey demanded that Cragen write Stabler up for it, and Cragen outright told him that Stuckey's completely valid complaint which would have gotten a real life detective fired or even brought up on charges wasn't worth the trouble.

Stuckey who, despite his tendency to annoy everyone, at times seemed to be a bullying target for the entire SVU department. Quite a few fans were cheering for him when he attempted to torture and kill Stabler, especially since Stabler had physically assaulted him earlier in the episode.

[Xeliou66]

51 minutes ago, balmz said:

from a thread on reddit, people were asking if svu were bullies or jerks to the dale stucky character, your personal feelings about the character aside, do you think they were unfair to him?

 

also from tv tropes about the character

 

Though he could be annoying and ultimately became a spree killer, Dale Stuckey did have moments when the abuse heaped on him seemed greatly disproportionate such as when he explained how a teen used spoofing to threaten another girl only for O'Halloran to dismiss it as Stuckey wasting their time or in his final appearance when Stabler physically assaulted him, Stuckey demanded that Cragen write Stabler up for it, and Cragen outright told him that Stuckey's completely valid complaint which would have gotten a real life detective fired or even brought up on charges wasn't worth the trouble.

Stuckey who, despite his tendency to annoy everyone, at times seemed to be a bullying target for the entire SVU department. Quite a few fans were cheering for him when he attempted to torture and kill Stabler, especially since Stabler had physically assaulted him earlier in the episode.

For the most part, Stuckey was beyond irritating and I didn’t think SVU treated him unfairly, he was an obnoxious douche, the only time I felt that he was treated unfairly was when Stabler assaulted him in his final appearance, and Cragen dismissed it - Stabler was an asshole who bullied almost everyone by that point in the show and Cragen should’ve reprimanded him and I found it OOC on Cragen’s part not to reprimand Stabler. Stabler had become totally unlikable by that point, he was okay in the earlier seasons when there was more depth to the character but by this point he had become just a ball of rage and a self righteous dick, it’s why I’m not excited to see the character return, and I don’t get why some people love the character so much (I think it’s because a lot of female viewers find Stabler attractive so they ignore his bad behavior).

It’s been a long time since I’ve seen those episodes because I hated that storyline, it’s probably my least favorite storyline in SVU history, it was so ridiculous and comical, Stuckey was just cringeworthy and they killed off O’Halloran who was an awesome character. So I usually skip those episodes. 

[Route66]

The thing is, everyone in adulthood has coworkers they don't like. You don't get to just behave in an obnoxious and unprofessional manner towards them. If they believed Stuckey was incompetent, there were channels for it. All of the L&O shows at some point featured a rogue lab tech; CI had the perp in "Major Case", Mothership had the fingerprint expert in "Myth of Fingerprints" and the ME in "Suicide Box". That being said, Wolfe has always shown that cops are imperfect and human. Their behaviour won't always be perfect and beyond reproach.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Stabler was an asshole who bullied almost everyone by that point in the show and Cragen should’ve reprimanded him 

Yeah, Stabler was a miserable rat bastard much of the time.

[Xeliou66]

2 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Yeah, Stabler was a miserable rat bastard much of the time.

Fin even called him a “rat bastard” in the season 9 finale after he dumped Fin’s phone records instead of asking him. Stabler wasn’t that way as much in the earlier seasons, there was depth to his character and he had moments of showing compassion towards people and wasn’t just a ball of rage, he had a temper but that wasn’t shown all the time. By the end of his run, that’s all Stabler was, an angry raging jerk. That’s why I’m not happy he’s coming back, I’m afraid these tendencies will only have worsened as Stabler has aged, I do not look forward to seeing him again and I don’t think I will watch his show. 

[WendyCR72]

But at least with Stabler, the airtime was more equal for everyone. Olivia as the solo lead basically killed that.

[Xeliou66]

2 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

But at least with Stabler, the airtime was more equal for everyone. Olivia as the solo lead basically killed that.

The first 2 seasons without Stabler were not dominated by St Olivia, mainly because Cragen and Munch were still around. The screentime was spread out fairly well in seasons 13-14, then in season 15 Munch and Cragen left and that’s when the show became the St Olivia hour. 

[wknt3]

On 5/10/2020 at 7:45 PM, WendyCR72 said:

But at least with Stabler, the airtime was more equal for everyone. Olivia as the solo lead basically killed that.

 

On 5/10/2020 at 10:15 PM, Xeliou66 said:

The first 2 seasons without Stabler were not dominated by St Olivia, mainly because Cragen and Munch were still around. The screentime was spread out fairly well in seasons 13-14, then in season 15 Munch and Cragen left and that’s when the show became the St Olivia hour. 

I think you're both right in a way. Olivia as the solo lead killed the ensemble feel, but making her the only star and focus of the show was separated in time a bit from Stabler's departure. When Meloni left they tried to replace him and keep going. In fact they basically told the writers to make Amaro Stabler 2.0 which predictably failed. It's too bad that nobody involved had access to someone with experience in replacing actors and characters...

I think Munch and Cragen departing heralded Benson taking over completely, but they left because of it instead of them leaving causing it. As far as I can tell they were pushed out in a drive to cut costs enough to keep the show viable (although with Belzer there were also health issues at play and I'm not sure how much longer he could have stayed on even in his reduced role) and the bosses had decided to devote all the focus to Benson as she was what was keeping the remaining core viewers interested. If they had kept the arrangement of Munch and Fin basically alternating episodes and just cut Florek things would have been basically the same except we wouldn't have gotten Carisi or maybe they would have kept Barba recurring.

Edited May 16, 2020 by wknt3
kant spel gud tuday

[dttruman]

There is a new video on Youtube that talks about some of the actors (and their characters) from the Mothership and SVU and why they ended up leaving. I don't know how accurate these reasons are, but just thought it was interesting to see what came up. It's a 9:30 minute video so I will try and start them for SVU.

BD Wong https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXbyVKXzfr8&t=228s

Chris Meloni https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXbyVKXzfr8&t=334s

Dean Winters https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXbyVKXzfr8&t=389s

Danny Pino https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXbyVKXzfr8&t=436s

 

 

[Mislav]

I know that SVU is the only Law & Order on the air right now, so they have to find a way to incorporate any possible L&O plot into it, but they've really been pushing the definition of a "sex crime" lately. And by "lately", I mean the last ten seasons and more.

"Victim got killed by a mail bomb. One of the shrapnels hit him in the groin. Could be a sex crime, better call in the SVU."

On more than one occasion, they have mentioned how overworked they are, how they have to investigate multiple cases at the same time, how sex crimes are underprosecuted etc. You'd think they would be more than willing to turn the case over to Homicide when it turns out that the crime wasn't sexually motivated after all. But no, once they start investigating, the case is theirs until the end, no matter which direction it takes.

Maybe that will change with Law & Order: Hate Crime, but considering that those crimes are even more specific and rare than sex crimes and child/domestic abuse cases, I'm not holding my breath.

Also, they have mentioned that it can take years for rape kits to be processed (which, to be fair, is a real issue). But whenever their team/squad is on the case, all forensic evidence is processed in a matter of days, or even hours.

[Gigi43]

I don't want to clog the episode thread, so I'll take it here. The show has got to get back to just the SVU crimes and get off the hate crimes aspect. I don't think it's by chance that, imo of course, the best episode of the season was Take Me On Private which was a straight up old school yet updated SVU case. As mad as I was for Benson and Kat treating Carisi the way they did, Dwight and Irene was another stand out episode this season. Ripped From The Headlines sex crimes and crimes involving minors have not dried up to use for inspiration since 'ripped from the headlines' has always been a popular aspect of LO but I shouldn't be able to figure out how a lot of the plots will go based off of trending topics. They've proven they're better at the SVU stuff still than political, which is all the more frustrating. 

 

Also constantly mentioning Organized Crime is already getting old. 

[Xeliou66]

Yeah SVU is at its best when dealing with SVU cases and focusing on writing classic, solid investigation/legal material, instead of focusing on politics and characters personal lives. I thought SVU started with 7 decent episodes in a row, as they focused on good cases, and I think the legal side and writing for Carisi has been improved drastically this season, it was poor last season. Lately SVU has been shaky, I liked the Pedo Motel episode as I thought it had good twists and investigation but I can see how it was ultimately something of a hate crime, and the last episode was pretty weak and very heavy handed. And then the OC crossover wasn’t an SVU case at all and they should never have handled it, and I agree they need to stop shoehorning in references to Stabler and OC, they were incredibly forced and cringeworthy in the last episode.

Overall I think this season has been the best since season 17, which may be a controversial opinion, but the previous few episodes have been somewhat shaky and they need to focus on writing good SVU cases instead of on politics and personal shit. 

[Xeliou66]

Well with SVU Season 22 concluded, it’s time for my analysis of the season. Stay with me, this will be a lengthy post analyzing the good and bad of season 22

The Good

There was a nice variety of cases and most of the cases were compelling. They gave us a good variety of SVU cases for the squad to handle, most of which were executed well. We saw a lot of different people involved in the cases, and we had a variety of perps as well - the season ended with 2 episodes featuring female villains, a rarity on modern day SVU!! From a pure case wise standpoint, this was the best season since 17 - I enjoyed most of the episodes, and thought the cases were mostly well done and entertaining. 

The writing for the legal side improved tremendously this season - it was awful in season 21 - this season they got a better grip on how to write good courtroom scenes, we went into the courtroom more and Carisi usually got a meatier role and got to act with more authority and came into his own as an ADA this season and got to shine in several episodes, and they stopped the trashing of the DA’s office which was so prominent in season 21 for the most part. I was impressed with the writing for most of the legal stuff this year, after it being dreadful in season 21. This season, the writing for both the investigative and legal stuff was good, again arguably the best balance since season 17.

The continuity improved as well, it was another thing that the writers did a much better job with after disregarding continuity completely in season 21. We got appearances from fan favorite characters (Stabler, Barba, Warner) as well as a decent cast of current recurring characters, plus even a crossover character with Barek!! They name dropped a bunch of past characters as well, hell we even got a Goren mention, I never thought his name would come up again!!

Fin. He’s consistently good and always entertaining, a central part of the SVU squad and the most stable character. I’m glad he’s found some happiness in his personal life with his relationship with Phoebe and I hope that stays. 
 

The Bad 

The Carisi/Rollins kiss to end the season. It was a truly awful way to end what was a good season. Not only do I hate soapy personal drama, I don’t think Rollins/Carisi have any romantic chemistry together, I find the whole thing forced and I think it is a terrible sign of what’s to come in season 23 - if they start a relationship it will be a huge conflict of interest for both and could really drag down Carisi and make him look bad, while making the whole show a soapy mess. Maybe I’m wrong about this, but I have an awful feeling about it, and it was nauseating to watch the writers go there.

The Rollins family melodrama - what was the point to bringing her dad back other than to create more soapy dreck? And it isn’t over, it will likely be back next year, another thing to dread about season 23.

Kat. Obnoxious, unpleasant and unprofessional - I really disliked how she had some beef with Carisi, apparently just because Carisi follows the law and doesn’t just arrest people because Kat thinks they’re guilty. Also Kat just generally has a chip on her shoulder and wasn’t pleasant. Fortunately she was toned down greatly in the second half of the season, and I’m hopeful she’ll be more likable next year.

While I like Garland as a character and he got some good scenes, why add him to the main cast if he’s not in every episode? If they wanted to add someone to the cast, how about another detective. Also I don’t like the storyline of Garland battling the evil corrupt brass, it’s such a cliched storyline and it doesn’t add much to the show and I don’t think the writers will do it any better going forward.

While they didn’t overtly go there, there were too many hints at the possibility of a Benson/Stabler romance, both on this show and OC. Please don’t go there show.

My favorite episodes were

Sightless in a Savage Land (episode 4)

Remember Me in Quarantine (episode 3) 

Welcome to the Pedo Motel (episode 10) 

What Can Happen in the Dark (episode 15)

My least favorite episodes were

The Only Way Out is Through (episode 8)

In the Year We All Fell Down (episode 12) 

 

Overall, I was prepared to say this season was the best since season 17, as it had a lot of good cases and was pretty consistent and was improved in a lot of ways, and then they went full blown Rollins/Carisi romance at the end. That really was a terrible way to end the season and really leaves me very worried about the show being extremely soapy in this season 23. So I’m not sure if I would say this season was the best since 17 just because of that, but it had the most consistently solid cases since then. So while I enjoyed the season overall, I have a lot of concerns about the show going forward.

[Gigi43]

My favorite episode was Turn Me On Take Me On Private because I thought the casting of Gabe was pretty memorable seeing him become more unhinged as the episode went on and the show broke it's own 'everyone on the internet are losers' trope by showing regular, professional people use sites like OnlyFans too. What Can Happen In The Dark runs a close second. I'm still surprised we got a straight up female villain/male victim story and they made good use of Garland.

 

The Year We All Fell Down was the worst with their message of 'it's okay to take hostages if you're upset.' There were some of the episodes that were obvious repurposed Hate Crimes cases that were bad but ITYWAFD was just such bullshit and handwaving the actual villain. 

 

I know some people didn't like how short the season was, but to me I think the shorter season works in the shows favor. Having less episodes left less room for even more episodes that are taken from Twitter talking points and the handful of really good episodes they had means they took up a bigger portion of the season to make this a pretty decent season in its balance of Old School SVU vs SJWSVU.

 

Of course, Organized Crimes being shoehorned in was bad on both shows though I think it hurt OC more than SVU but still, if they're going to be doing  this for 24 episodes of each show next season with the Benson/Stabler teases, I don't know if I can take that. 

Edited June 6, 2021 by Gigi43

[Spartan Girl]

“Selfish” was on the other day, and I still can’t believe Olivia was more or less on the side of the anti-vaxxer mom, giving the excuse that on the whole she took care of her son and saying “maybe sometimes parents know best.” Uh, Liv? How many abusive parents on your own show claimed they “knew best” even when it was obvious they didn’t?

She sure was singing a different tune years later when Noah got infected by another anti-vaxxer mom causing a measles outbreak! Not that I’d wish disease on a defenseless baby, but that kind of feels like karma. And further proof that she was always a hypocrite, it’s just more obvious now.

Edited July 21, 2021 by Spartan Girl

[Xeliou66]

I watched Pornstar’s Requiem today and this episode is one of the most infuriating in SVU’s history - Judge Briggs is a piece of shit, he threw out the verdict just because he didn’t like that the victim had starred in porn videos and because the rapist was a clean cut, privileged “good kid”, he had no legal basis for throwing out the guilty verdict, he’s just a sack of crap - unfortunately there are a lot of power hungry, biased judges out there like him. Barba was right to yell at him and if I were in Barba’s place I think I would’ve gotten held in contempt.

I did love seeing the always smug Buchanan represent the rapist, he’s such an entertaining character and a great adversary for SVU, I hope he’s back next season.

Benson was a bit annoying with her preaching and I kind of agreed with Dodds that she had an agenda, this was just Dodds second appearance. This was one of Carisi’s first episodes as well, they weren’t sure what to make of him but he showed he was a good detective in this episode.

[Spartan Girl]

On 7/21/2021 at 11:48 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I watched Pornstar’s Requiem today and this episode is one of the most infuriating in SVU’s history - Judge Briggs is a piece of shit, he threw out the verdict just because he didn’t like that the victim had starred in porn videos and because the rapist was a clean cut, privileged “good kid”, he had no legal basis for throwing out the guilty verdict, he’s just a sack of crap - unfortunately there are a lot of power hungry, biased judges out there like him. Barba was right to yell at him and if I were in Barba’s place I think I would’ve gotten held in contempt.

 

Agreed and I hated Evie’s parents for bailing on her when she needed them the most just because she made a porn video. Had no zero pity for her stupid mother when she showed up in the squad room blubbering because Evie had gone missing and left behind what could have been a suicide note video. I hope she never contacted them again.

Edited July 23, 2021 by Spartan Girl

[Xeliou66]

4 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Agreed and I hated Evie’s parents for bailing on her when she needed them the most just because she made a porn video. Had no zero pity for her stupid mother when she showed up in the squad room blubbering because Evie had gone missing and left behind what could have been a suicide note video. I hope she never contacted them again.

Yes I thought about making a post adding Evie’s parents to the bad parents list - they clearly cared more about their standing in their community than about their daughter. Fuck them. I like the episode, it’s one of the better ones from that season, but it’s a downer episode all the way around.