S05.E11: Check-Up With Dr. Drew, Part 1

[kira28]

 

Jun 6 2015. 9:21 pm

I hate to defend Maci, but I don't think her getting pregnant at 23 means she's unfit to talk to teens about avoiding pregnancy. A lot of women have planned pregnancies at that age. She's in a committed relationship and can afford the child. She basically admitted this kid was planned and the fact she's not married is really her own personal issue. That's why she initially made it seem like a "miracle baby" because she's self-conscious about having two baby daddies and no husband, even though she decided to do it this way.

Amber is really getting my last nerve. I can't believe Dr. drew actually went after Matt and her for their failures in recovery - good job for once. "We're HAPPY" is not a reasonable response when asked why you have this guy you barely know living with you, drinking together when you're recovering addicts, not having a relationship with his kids (which is surely worse no what he's moved away), and not letting you spend any time alone! Even worse was her line "we're not beating on each other" like that's the mark of a good relationship! We also saw the true Matt - Amber storms off in a huff, Bubba goes to comfort her, and Matt slides down the couch for solo camera and Dr. D time. Superman indeed.

We will have to disagree (said in the nicest way possible) about Maci being fit to talk to teens about preventing pregnancy.  As someone else said SHE may have planned this pregnancy but that is a horrible thing to do to anyone without their consent. Taylor clearly did not want or expect her to get pregnant so its not as though they had an adult conversation and decided after some discussion that they wanted a child and should start trying. She just "forgot" to tell him she threw away her birth control and trapped him. I could care less that she's not married but I would not say she's in a committed stable relationship. Taylor does NOT want to marry her. He lived with her for a MONTH before she got pregnant. He's around for the gravy train.  Neither one of them appear to have any kind of income that is not Teen Mom related so when  the show ends they won't be able to afford a child. Ryan seems to be the only one with a legitimate job. How sad is that!  Maci decided to get pregnant she didn't alert her boyfriend to the fact that she was trying. he thought she couldn't get pregnant or was on birth control. Now he has no choice. That's a shitty thing to do to someone.

 

I totally agree with you about Matt and Amber though. Love your description of Matt sliding over next to dr. drew.  Matt is just there for the fame. He could care less about Amber. She's just his meal ticket.

[lezlers]

I love how Dr. Drew was trying to bully Gary into adjusting the custody arrangement by saying "she'll go to court, Gary" all ominous-like.  So what?  Does Dr. Drew actually think a judge is going to award Amber sole custody?  I don't understand how Dr. Drew would think Gary would actually be intimidated by Amber's "threat" to go to court.  I liked how he called Amber on her shit about not working the steps, but his attitude towards Gary regarding custody was repugnant.  Leah's safety is what's most important here, but what Ambie wants. I used to really like Dr. Drew when he was doing celebrity rehab, but he's lost all credibility when he started hosting these updates.  He gives shockingly bad advice sometimes.

 

I'm also DYING to see Kristina's ex-husband.  I can only imagine what he was like if she cheated on him with GARY.  Ugh.

[gunderda]

We will have to disagree (said in the nicest way possible) about Maci being fit to talk to teens about preventing pregnancy.  As someone else said SHE may have planned this pregnancy but that is a horrible thing to do to anyone without their consent. Taylor clearly did not want or expect her to get pregnant 

 

Do we know that for sure though?? I'm honestly asking.  I haven't seen anything that says Taylor did not want a child with Maci or that she didn't tell him she stopped taking her birth control.  But I also multi-task while watching these shows so maybe I missed something. 

 

I thought at the reunion they gave the impression that they weren't trying to prevent it at all.

 

and since when is it the girls job entirely to prevent pregnancy?  Taylor could have wrapped it up if he was fully against it.  Birth control isn't 100% fail proof. 

[Tatum]

Do we know that for sure though?? I'm honestly asking.  I haven't seen anything that says Taylor did not want a child with Maci or that she didn't tell him she stopped taking her birth control.  But I also multi-task while watching these shows so maybe I missed something. 

 

I thought at the reunion they gave the impression that they weren't trying to prevent it at all.

 

and since when is it the girls job entirely to prevent pregnancy?  Taylor could have wrapped it up if he was fully against it.  Birth control isn't 100% fail proof. 

 

I have no idea how Taylor felt about it and I don't think he's said one way or another (although I could have missed it). But Maci has changed her story a number of times. The impression I've gotten (and I by no means insist this is the real story, it's just my interpretation) is that Maci told Taylor she was not likely get pregnant on her own (or it was impossible) and birth control was superfluous, and Taylor agreed she should not bother with it then.

 

Now, nothing was stopping Taylor from doing his own research on PCOS or asking to hear it directly from her doctor that contraception was unnecessary, or hell, just insisting no one ever died from wearing a condom and he'd like to wear one anyways just for extra precaution. If he absolutely did not want a baby, there's a lot he could have done differently. That does not mean I think it was morally okay for Maci to intentionally mislead Taylor about her chances of getting pregnant (if she did).

 

Perhaps Taylor was 100% on board and Maci was never dishonest. She doesn't need to run her life decisions by me and it's not like she's using public assistance to fund her family, or hitting me up for money. That said,  I'd still argue that a college could find a better role model for teens regarding safe sex than a young woman who couldn't be bothered to complete her education, hold down a steady job, or have a firm commitment from her partner before deciding to try to get pregnant. For that reason, I do have to side-eye giving her lectures while pregnant.

[gunderda]

I have no idea how Taylor felt about it and I don't think he's said one way or another (although I could have missed it). But Maci has changed her story a number of times. The impression I've gotten (and I by no means insist this is the real story, it's just my interpretation) is that Maci told Taylor she was not likely get pregnant on her own (or it was impossible) and birth control was superfluous, and Taylor agreed she should not bother with it then.

 

That's the way it comes across to me as well.  That's why I'm asking about the "clearly Taylor didn't want a child" comment. Because "clearly" is a very definite word. And I don't think anyone knows that except Taylor.

 

I totally agree with all of the other comments about Maci, it's very hard for her to tell the truth. But I don't think she's trying to trap Taylor. 

Edited June 8, 2015 by gunderda

[GreatKazu]

 

She's in a committed relationship and can afford the child.

Is she in a committed relationship? Taylor wants his MTV check before he recognizes Maci as his partner for the next five years. This is a guy who moved to be near her after dating two years "online". One month after arriving, Maci is miraculously pregnant! Doesn't sound like he had any plans to have a child. Now, he could have used protection and for that, he is just as wrong because forget pregnancy for a moment, what about STDs or worse, HIV/AIDs? Strange how this never, ever comes up on a tv show that is supposed to be about safe sex and using protection. Screw you MTV, the biggest liar of them all.

 

As far as being able to afford this child, what is considered "being able to afford"? The one lump sum paycheck that MTV supplies? I thought that check went to the purchase of her THIRD home that was shown this past season. With what is leftover, is someone able to raise a child on that amount? I think if Maci had $50 grand in the bank, she'd want to make sure that amount stays there for the future. Not use it up to live on or to raise a child. Teen Mom is not going on forever. Maci doesn't have a ten year contract. I had a relative who received a settlement from a lawsuit. She received $60k. What did she do? She lived off of it for two years instead of completing her education.  This is the way I imagine most of these girls are living. They hit the welfare jackpot! This is why so many people got stuck in the cycle of welfare because having money coming in, it made things easy for people to not pursue a better life.

 

Maci is not in a position to being able to afford to raise a child if Taylor were to leave the relationship. Does she expect to live off of child support like Leah Messer? What kind of life is that? How about a job? Of course, what skills does she have other than the ones that will garner her a minimum wage job? How about that education she was pursuing? It's been six years now. I know people who went to vocational college, graduated in two years and are now in careers that pay extremely well because they worked their way up the ladder.

 

 

She basically admitted this kid was planned and the fact she's not married is really her own personal issue.

So, rather than be an adult about it, she hid the truth just like many teenagers who hide their pregnancy for one reason or another. As for not being married, I will be the first one to say that people should live together first before marrying, in some cases. Maci doesn't have to be married to appease anyone. However, her not being married is not because it is her decision. It is Taylor's decision to not be engaged to her or make her his wife. Maci is just stuck with that decision.

 

 

That's why she initially made it seem like a "miracle baby" because she's self-conscious about having two baby daddies and no husband, even though she decided to do it this way.

Then, perhaps she should have taken a look at herself and not flaunted her life on camera and stop with the speaking engagements. Perhaps being self-conscious is a red-flag for how she is handling her life. We didn't see her parents on the show this season. Maybe they are not as enthusiastic with the route Maci has chosen to take.

 

 

I thought at the reunion they gave the impression that they weren't trying to prevent it at all.

Maci wasn't trying to prevent it at all. That is how I viewed it. Taylor wasn't the one who tossed aside the birth control pills. He likely wasn't aware of her having done that until after the fact.

 

Taylor, like many uneducated males out there, feel when a female tells them they can't get pregnant, she is being truthful. They also believe when the girls tell them they are on the pill, they are safe from pregnancy.  I have heard from a handful of guys who felt they couldn't get their girlfriend pregnant because "she said she couldn't" or "she said she was on the pill". Oy. They really truly believe these girls.

Edited June 8, 2015 by GreatKazu

[ghoulina]

I agree that Maci probably told Taylor one thing, but did another. I came to this conclusion after her story changed. So yea, she was all - "Don't worry, we can't get pregnant, I have PCOS". And he just bought it. But after realizing how stupid it makes her sound, while giving safe sex talks no less, she changes her tune - "Since my chances were so low, we decided to just let nature take its course and see what happens".

 

I totally think she was trying to trap Taylor. He may be a lot nicer than Ryan, but he's only slightly more committed. I don't care about her age or if she's married, but I do think it's irresponsible to get pregnant when your only means of income is a TV show that clearly can't hang on forever, and the guy you got to impregnate you seems only mildly interested. 

 

Long term. These girls do not think long term.

[MissMel]

But neither do the guys.

I got divorced when my boys were 12 and 5. My 12 year old had just started wrestling. I had to buy him a cup. I didn't even know where to find "a cup". I had a mini meltdown in Walmart and called one of my guy friends (now husband) to find out where I should look. No lie, this man walked me through the varieties of cups/straps and then said, "Wanna go for the gold now, too?" "Why not". "Get the boy a box of condoms."

What?! My kid was twelve. He said "just get them and set them on the bathroom counter." I did. Still do.

I told my son I don't care what she says. This is not about procreation. It's about protection. A baby is not the worse thing you can catch from sex. The boy is 21 now and healthy. And nobody is calling me Granny just yet. He was pretty pissed off with the HPV vaccine shots, though. Apparently they hurt, a lot.

[Tatum]

I agree that if Taylor did not want to be a dad, simply going along with Maci's explanation that as a sufferer of PCOS, she did not need to be on birth control was not a smart thing to do. Taylor was irresponsible. But, if Maci intentionally led him to believe she could not pregnant when she knew it wasn't impossible, that is appalling. Neither comes out very well here.

 

I would not excuse Maci's dishonesty by saying, well, he should have wrapped it up. If someone left something valuable in their unlocked car and came back to find it stolen, I would definitely roll my eyes that they hadn't hidden the item and locked the car. That doesn't mean I think the thief is justified in stealing because the owner was dumb.

[kira28]

 

Do we know that for sure though?? I'm honestly asking.  I haven't seen anything that says Taylor did not want a child with Maci or that she didn't tell him she stopped taking her birth control.  But I also multi-task while watching these shows so maybe I missed something.

 

I thought at the reunion they gave the impression that they weren't trying to prevent it at all.

 

and since when is it the girls job entirely to prevent pregnancy?  Taylor could have wrapped it up if he was fully against it.  Birth control isn't 100% fail proof.

 

 

I should have said IMO Taylor clearly didn't want a child.  I think I remember him saying  (maybe it was on the reunion , maybe it was to friends during a scene) that it was a huge surprise (Maci getting pregnant). Very true that it was his responsibility as well to use protection if he didn't want a child but young guys in their twenties usually take the word of girls who say oh I can't get pregnant or tell them they are on birth control. Don't know why. Doesn't excuse him and he seems happy now that they are expecting a little girl. But this is a guy who won't even get engaged to his pregnant girlfriend even though he knows it will make her feel better!!! He says its too soon or too fast or he's not ready for marriage/getting engaged yet. I really doubt that someone who is not ready to pony up a few thousand dollars to get his girlfriend an engagement ring was thinking about having a child with that same girlfriend.

[GreatKazu]

And, at this point of the game, is needing an engagement ring necessary? Give me a house over a ring any day.

 

Maci already has the kid. Why the need to have that security around her finger? If they have a baby with a guy, shouldn't that be security enough? Maci comes off like so many of these girls. They have to have a ring to show off, plain and simple. Just like the damn weddings. They have to have THAT wedding. As if having a ring and a wedding somehow makes it all fall magically into place. Maci has apparently been sporting a ring on social media, from what I have read. How much you wanna bet she bought that herself?

Edited June 8, 2015 by GreatKazu

[lezlers]

This is why I have a problem with people that have children without being married.  For some couples it's fine.  They're totally committed and don't want to get married for whatever reason.  Cool.  But when they're not married because they're not "ready" to be married?  WHY THE HELL ARE YOU HAVING CHILDREN TOGETHER THEN??  It kills me.  Children are a MUCH larger commitment than marriage.  If you're not "ready" for one, you're sure as hell not ready for the other.

[GreatKazu]

This is why I have a problem with people that have children without being married.  For some couples it's fine.  They're totally committed and don't want to get married for whatever reason.  Cool.  But when they're not married because they're not "ready" to be married?  WHY THE HELL ARE YOU HAVING CHILDREN TOGETHER THEN??  It kills me.  Children are a MUCH larger commitment than marriage.  If you're not "ready" for one, you're sure as hell not ready for the other.

This. I mentioned this very thing more than once over the course of this series including TM2 and 16 & Pregnant.

 

The girls are all talk about being in love and committed but, when you hear the guys speak, they are talking about the need to wait or they are not ready to be married.

 

Babies are a bigger commitment because you cannot divorce your children. At least if you get tired of your partner's shit, you can walk away from them or divorce them if you are married.  With children, you are their parent for life, unless a court rules you are unfit and your rights are terminated or, a parent chooses to remove themselves from their children's lives.

 

These damn people act as if they are playing house and the baby is just an accessory.

[NikSac]

Maybe I've just known too many guys who got trapped by the "oops-a-baby" thing, but I just get so frustrated with it. I know, I know, the guy always has the option to wear a condom but in the cases I know of the guys were in what they thought was a loving, trusting, committed relationship (also long term, which I know doesn't really apply to Maci's situation). I mean at some point if both partners have not experienced any STDs, maybe even tested clean for said diseases, shouldn't one be able to trust the other if they say they're using birth control and/or can't get pregnant? I've been to a couple of weddings where the couple's very young baby was the "flower girl" or "ring bearer," but in every one of them the baby was 'planned' by the woman and a surprise for the man. Fortunately the ones I'm thinking of are all happy now, but it still bothers me to this day that the babies were "traps" at the time.

 

I know we don't have any proof that Taylor did or didn't want this baby, but his shocked reaction vs. Maci's reaction implying it was planned made me think it was not part of Taylor's plan at this point.  Hopefully he's happy about it now, for his sake and the baby's.

[GreatKazu]

Taylor moved to be near Maci. One month later she was pregnant. Taylor has made his feelings clear about marriage. Hell, he doesn't even want to be engaged! No one is going to tell me that boy was planning to have a baby with Maci. He is doing what he thinks he should be doing without having the benefit of marriage - live with Maci and be a father to the baby.

 

Agree NikSac. Not all guys are screwing around with girls and playing mind games with them. Girls do it just as much. Plenty of females have learned about the "trap baby".  If that wasn't the case, why is it that we have heard many girls say on 16 & Pregnant that they thought if they had a baby, their boyfriend would change their ways? That is not to say all of those girls chose to become pregnant on purpose, but the chances are high that they did. They felt the guy was going to leave them and they decided to bring a baby into the relationship in the hopes of salvaging it. Adult women do this shit too. Maci is no different.

[evilmindatwork]

I would not excuse Maci's dishonesty by saying, well, he should have wrapped it up. If someone left something valuable in their unlocked car and came back to find it stolen, I would definitely roll my eyes that they hadn't hidden the item and locked the car. That doesn't mean I think the thief is justified in stealing because the owner was dumb/

YES! I mean,  I understand the reasoning that he should have used a condom but it seems like he and Maci were in a serious, monogamous, long term relationship. They were living together! I haven't been in a ton of relationships but I've had a couple where we stopped using condoms and I just went on a hormonal birth control... It was about trust. I never lied or bent the truth about my fertility. Shame on Maci if she did. This definitely wasn't a miracle baby, people with PCOS get pregnant all the time. I don't think Taylor is that dumb for trusting Maci... I hope most people trust their significant other whether they're married or not.

 

I also  don't understand the getting pregnant to save a relationship thing. IF your relationship isn't working now, it sure as hell isn't going to work with a baby as an additional stresser. Do you really want to go through whatever bullshit a guy/girl is putting you through with the additional tie of a baby? When I knew my marriage was ending, I was relieved we never had a child. I felt so lucky not to be bound to him in that way. This was a man I had been with for ten years, not two months like some of these kids.

Edited June 9, 2015 by evilmindatwork

[lezlers]

I think a lot of these kids look at babies as sort of a keepsake for whatever relationship they're in.  Like, if you're together with them, you need to have a child that's part of both you.  For the rest of that child's life they're a walking, talking reminder of your relationship.  It's a terrible way to think about having kids, but I really think that's how they look at it.  How else do you explain getting pregnant (or trying to) at some point in every relationship you have?  Look at Jenelle in TM2.  She's gotten pregnant by every loser she's dated (except Kieeeeefa!)

[gunderda]

ok ok, let's say Maci trapped him - but why would she? Just to say she had a husband?

It obviously wasn't for financial security and she knows that relationships won't last just because you have a baby. 

[GreatKazu]

ok ok, let's say Maci trapped him - but why would she? Just to say she had a husband?

It obviously wasn't for financial security and she knows that relationships won't last just because you have a baby. 

There are various reasons, but for all the things we know about Maci, I don't think we really know her. 

 

One reason that comes to mind is, Maci is filling a void. Jenelle has mentioned on at least one occasion she always has to have someone in her life because she feels lonely. Forget she has Jace and she has a mother, she has to have a guy. This makes sense because Jenelle doesn't have her father in her life.  Maci, for whatever reason, may feel the same way even though she apparently has her father, but there are plenty of girls who feel they didn't get a lot of attention from their fathers. I can't say for sure, but usually when a girl has a need to have a guy in her life, she is filling a void. Maci may not want to have a career. She is likely a person who wants to be at home with babies. Nothing wrong with that kind of life. But, she gives a different impression on the show and this may go back to what Kyle King said about her - she gives a different persona on the show than she does when the cameras are not around.

 

I don't think there is always a clear reason. It is not black and white sometimes. With Maci, I think it is black and white -  she just doesn't want to work. She wants a home life.

 

 

It obviously wasn't for financial security

I wouldn't rule that out. Maci has no career aspirations or goals. She always has an excuse for not finishing school or not completing some task. She needs to have someone take care of her and that will take someone with a job, which is what Taylor has. I can't believe Maci has much of any money left from her "career" on MTV and her hypocritical speaking engagements.

Edited June 9, 2015 by GreatKazu

[Elizabeth9]

Maci just wants to be a wife and mom. She tried with Kyle King and he wasn't ready. I think it's simply the next man in line was getting the job.

[Tatum]

I agree. I don't think she's specifically out to trap Taylor personally. I think she's out to procure a certain lifestyle- that of a young stay at home mom with a full time working husband.

 

Although most of her friends went away to college, maybe it's a common thing amongst the women she knows to go to school, pick up a "fun" degree (a degree where the coursework might be interesting and a good ice breaker, but not necessarily lucrative after graduation), maybe work for a year or two until they marry their college boyfriends, quickly become pregnant, and quit their jobs (which they were just biding their time at anyways) to stay home with their kids, all by Maci's age. Maybe Maci is figuring that now that her high school friends are having babies, she can just slip back in with them and be one of the gang again instead of the odd one out, like she was for a number of years. Just a theory.

 

But it requires the cooperation of a husband- to marry her, agree to knock her up, and agree to shoulder the financial responsibility while she stays home. I think her getting pregnant was a way to force his hand. I also agree with some of the other posters that any guy she was dating for a period of time would have been (and has been!) in this position.

[fliptopbox]

I dunno how many times I have heard guys say "..but she TOLD ME she couldn't get pregnant!!!" when their girlfriend mysteriously gets knocked up. Makes me roll my eyes everytime. Just because she says that doesn't make it true. And I don't know of any guy who would insist on wearing a condom in a committed relationship....guys are usually relieved when you get to that point where they are no longer necessary since (from what I hear) it doesn't feel as good.

 

Personally I am glad I never had an oops baby with any of my exes. Not only do I not want kids at all, I wouldn't want a walking, talking reminder of any of my ex boyfriends. Not that they were all horrible (they're not), but I just wouldn't want to be connected to any of them for literally the rest of my goddamn life. Which is why I always faithfully took The Pill, and then later moved onto the Mirena. No worries til I'm 35....and then I'll just get a new one.

[poopchute]

I can't think of a worse person to be giving safe sex talks than someone stopped using birth control because she was told she may have a harder time conceiving because of PCOS. Is that what she says at her speaking engagements? "If you have PCOS stop using birth control."?? I just don't understand why any school or organization would pay her to speak about preventing pregnancy when according to her own story, she doesn't m know how to prevent it?!

[shady lane]

I honestly think people just have a very harsh view of Maci - and I am no big fan of hers. It is nothing more than speculation that:

 

- Maci got pregnant to trap Tyler

- Maci told Tyler she was unable to get pregnant

- Maci is so desperate for a husband that she thought pregnancy would get her an engagement

 

Those things might be true but I have no reason to think that they are. If they are why would Tyler still be with her? And he said on one of the aftershows that when he first met her, he had never watched "Teen Mom" and didn't know her, so it's not like he's some fame-hungry Matt type who is going to stay with her after she lied about her fertility issues just to be on camera. 

 

And I maintain that telling high schoolers 14-18 years olds to use birth control and prevent pregnancy - and then becoming pregnant at 23 in a committed relationship when you own a house and a car - is not even remotely hypocritical. I wonder if people would have a problem with Kailyn giving the same speeches, who got married after dating Javi for about five minutes and had a second kid before she was even 21. Is marriage the magical solution here?

[GreatKazu]

LOL Shady Lane, have you read the Kailyn comments on the TM2 threads?

I have not read anyone mention that Maci had to be married.

If anything, thank goodness these girls have not gotten married.

What is it with "homes and cars"? First Cate says it with such glee and now, it gets brought up here to somehow justify Maci having a second kid with a second guy.

[NikSac]

Maci actually used to be one of my favorites so it bothers me to view her the way I do now. 

 

Just my own thoughts, but the reason I believe Taylor wasn't in on the whole pregnancy plan is his apparent surprise while she says it was planned.  I don't know if she told Taylor she couldn't get pregnant or it would be difficult, but that's the story she's telling to Dr. Drew and it also explains why he looks so surprised.

 

The husband thing, I dunno - I think she wants to be married, but I think it's more for her 'image,' especially with her family, than because she is actually all that worried about having another baby without being married.

 

As far as her speaking engagements, from everything I've seen they are to college kids, not high schoolers, so they're not much younger than she is. It doesn't bother me that she's speaking to those groups, but it does bug me that she seems to be trying to hide her pregnancy via outfits, and her story about how she ended up pregnant while speaking about preventing pregnancy is just off to me (especially when it changed a few times). If she was in fact trying to get pregnant this time, fine, great, TALK about it - why now was the right time, why it wasn't the right time before, when to use protection and when not to, how to talk to your partner about it, etc.  I'd respect her a lot more for that.

 

In the long run she's not in my life unless I turn on the TV and I'm certainly not in hers so it really doesn't matter, but the seeming hypocrisy bothers me.

[Tatum]

 

And I maintain that telling high schoolers 14-18 years olds to use birth control and prevent pregnancy - and then becoming pregnant at 23 in a committed relationship when you own a house and a car - is not even remotely hypocritical. I wonder if people would have a problem with Kailyn giving the same speeches, who got married after dating Javi for about five minutes and had a second kid before she was even 21. Is marriage the magical solution here?

 

As Nicsac pointed out, these are college kids, not high school kids, so they are actually 18-22. And the reasons kids in that age group are generally not encouraged to have babies (which is not the only reason to wear a condom, but since Maci is in a committed relationship, I don't see a hypocrisy in not using condoms for safety, as presumably they are monogamous and STD free) is because they haven't finished their education, they don't have a job that would allow them to support a child, they're still developing money and time management skills, and also, they just aren't that mature (I am speaking in very general terms here, obviously there are 18-22 year olds who are exceptions to what I wrote above). Those are all valid reasons to wait to have kids. Yet, Maci is pretty much in the same boat they are. She hasn't finished her education, doesn't work a steady job, is wasting her nest egg on cars and tattoos, and if you ask me, is extremely immature.

 

Now Maci's life is her business, and she doesn't need my permission to get pregnant and raise another child. But I personally find it ridiculous that someone who is really no better off/different from the people she is advising was actively trying to get pregnant, despite the reasons that the average person would discourage one from doing so applied to her as well. Yes, she has a car and a house, and she might have some money in the bank. She has no way of sustaining that income unless TM goes on forever. She's shown that she's lazy and unmotivated. And I DO think marriage is a big deal, if only that marriage would show a commitment to her that so far we've not seen Taylor willing to provide. No, marriage is not a "magical" solution. But if someone is not even sure enough about you to want to marry you, why would you even consider having a child with that person?

 

Anyways, I DO see it as hypocrisy to tell kids all the reasons they should wait to have babies, when all those reasons apply to her as well, yet she was trying to get pregnant herself. Again, her own business, but that doesn't mean I can't call her a hypocrite on an internet forum.

[kira28]

 

Now Maci's life is her business, and she doesn't need my permission to get pregnant and raise another child. But I personally find it ridiculous that someone who is really no better off/different from the people she is advising was actively trying to get pregnant, despite the reasons that the average person would discourage one from doing so applied to her as well. Yes, she has a car and a house, and she might have some money in the bank. She has no way of sustaining that income unless TM goes on forever. She's shown that she's lazy and unmotivated. And I DO think marriage is a big deal, if only that marriage would show a commitment to her that so far we've not seen Taylor willing to provide. No, marriage is not a "magical" solution. But if someone is not even sure enough about you to want to marry you, why would you even consider having a child with that person?

 

Anyways, I DO see it as hypocrisy to tell kids all the reasons they should wait to have babies, when all those reasons apply to her as well, yet she was trying to get pregnant herself. Again, her own business, but that doesn't mean I can't call her a hypocrite on an internet forum.

Can I like this twice? Lol. I so agree. Especially with the part about why would you choose to have a child with someone or even want to when they aren't even sure they want to marry you? It's not as though Taylor proposed to Maci and they set a wedding date and then she talked to him about having a child and they decided together they would forgo protection.  He won't even propose to her, this woman he supposedly loves and who is carrying his child. He KNOWS she would feel better with a ring on her finger so why not propose? But yet they are ready to have a child together? They were in a long distance relationship and lived together for a month before she got knocked up. I don't think Taylor was in on the decision to get preggers at all. (He could have worn a condom but if he was told it was nearly impossible for her to get pregnant, imagine his shock that a month after moving in with her, Maci is pregnant) 

 

I agree she shouldn't be getting paid to give speeches to her peers about safe sex and preventing pregnancy when is basically living in the same circumstances (not stable) as they are and "accidently" gets pregnant for the SECOND time. Like she never learned anything from the first time.  if a guy shuddered at the idea of marrying me or said he wasn't ready for that step yet, no way in hell would I have a kid with him. Children are ten times more of a commitment than marriage or being engaged. As far as I can tell Taylor's only job is TM. so basically this series ends and they are both unemployed with few prospects and two kids to raise. Nice.

[Elizabeth9]

Taylor mentioned having to work on an episode

[kira28]

If Taylor does work a legitimate job outside of TM then I take back what I said. However I remember him saying (when they were house hunting I believe) that he was going to have to get a 2nd job to be able to afford everything and IMO TM is his main job. I did some research and an article from 2013 stated that Maci was ready for marriage with Taylor (they started dating in 2013. That makes it even more sad that they have been together two years and he still doesn't want to marry her even though they have a child together!  You can't tell me that this wasn't a trap.  The articles I found list his occupation as Motorcross racer and granite company worker. But these were from 2013 when he was not living in TN with Maci so who knows what he does now.

[ghoulina]

For me, the marriage thing with Maci is about them not being on the same page. People certainly don't need to get married to spend their lives together, raise children together. But it's not like this is a couple who is shunning convention  and just doing their thing. Maci clearly wants a marriage and Taylor is dragging his feet. It's clear they never really discussed such a thing, and I doubt they seriously discussed having kids in the future either. That's the issue. These youngsters are just leaping headfirst into every decision with no planning or forethought. I agree that someone like Maci isn't really fit to be giving safe sex talks.

[SPLAIN]

 

I honestly think people just have a very harsh view of Maci - and I am no big fan of hers. It is nothing more than speculation that:

 

- Maci got pregnant to trap Tyler

- Maci told Tyler she was unable to get pregnant

- Maci is so desperate for a husband that she thought pregnancy would get her an engagement

I was a big fan of hers, but now, not so much.

 

I think by connecting the dots it appears Maci did play the PCOS card to death. She got Taylor to believe it, and when he moves to be near her, she is pregnant a month later. She even mentioned it on the reunion show with Taylor there at her side. Of course he was told about her not being able to get pregnant. If he hadn't heard it before there surely would have been a response or some kind of reaction by him either on the show or the reunion. This is not speculation.

 

Did Maci ever mention PCOS before? She had Bentley. Why suddenly it was going to be hard for her to be pregnant? Why not go the route of having an implant to prevent pregnancy, much like Catelyn did a few seasons ago? Oh wait. She didn't want that because you can't just toss aside an implant like you can with birth control pills.

 

 

Those things might be true but I have no reason to think that they are. If they are why would Tyler still be with her?

To avoid possibly looking like an ass or a douchebag for running out on her? Maybe he is hoping that down the road that their relationship will evolve to something better. Plenty of females do this when the relationship has problems, but they stick it out hoping things will work themselves out. Taylor has already stated that Maci bitches like a married woman and Maci herself said she feels like they are married. Taylor may just want to leave things as they are because he doesn't want to go through a marriage only to later get a divorce.

 

 

And he said on one of the aftershows that when he first met her, he had never watched "Teen Mom" and didn't know her, so it's not like he's some fame-hungry Matt type who is going to stay with her after she lied about her fertility issues just to be on camera.

Possibly he is enticed by the MTV check. I imagine Maci must have told him what they could pull in as a couple, and what he would earn if they had another season.  Taylor may not view it as Maci lying to him, the way the majority of us do. Taylor likely took Maci's word.

 

 

And I maintain that telling high schoolers 14-18 years olds to use birth control and prevent pregnancy - and then becoming pregnant at 23 in a committed relationship when you own a house and a car - is not even remotely hypocritical. I wonder if people would have a problem with Kailyn giving the same speeches, who got married after dating Javi for about five minutes and had a second kid before she was even 21. Is marriage the magical solution here?

As others have mentioned, she was not speaking to high school kids. She was speaking to people in her age group at colleges.

 

There is a difference between two people being in a committed relationship and two people together because there is a baby on the way. Maci and Taylor, in my view, fall in the second group. Let me reiterate. Maci thinks she is in a committed relationship, to a point. She needs that marriage certificate. Taylor doesn't seem to be in a committed relationship. I think he is doing what a lot of guys do - stick with the girl who is pregnant with their child.

 

The reason Maci keeps pushing for marriage is, she wants a spouse. She once mentioned early in the season, I believe, that her grandparents were not pleased with her having another child out of wedlock. It appears her grandparents come from the era where people should be married if a child will soon arrive. That could be playing a major part in why she is wanting to be married.  I don't believe in that because two people should marry because they want to, not because they have to. Not at all sure where you got the notion that we are pushing for Maci to marry Taylor. If anything, I hope he doesn't marry her. He should marry her because he is ready and committed. When a guy has mentioned more than once he is not sure about marriage, that screams NO COMMITMENT.

 

I am also confused by your comment about Maci having a car and a house. How does that make for a committed relationship? Maci and Kyle King bought a house together and a new car. How did that work out for her?

 

Maci would not have three homes under her belt and two cars if not for MTV. Let's get that clear. I have seen more committed relationships by people who live in an apartment and have to use public transportation.

 

Funny you mention Kail Lowry. I cannot stand her, but in her defense, Kail was dating Javi for a year before they became engaged AND she wasn't pregnant at that time. It was not five minutes. What is five minutes is, Maci getting pregnant a month after Taylor moved to her town. I don't get this "two years of dating" online malarkey. If one were to put all the time Maci and Taylor actually spent time together (not online), I would bet it amounts to one month. How do you get to know someone online? Ludicrous.

Edited June 11, 2015 by SPLAIN

[evilmindatwork]

Sometimes I feel like she just did a shallow search on conditions that impact infertility and just picked PCOS out of a bunch of them. I have PCOS and I, like most women with the condition, struggle with my weight on a daily basis. She's so thin. I am not saying that you can't be thin and have it-- it's just very uncommon. Also, she's woefully uninformed about PCOS for someone who claims to have it.

 

 

The reason Maci keeps pushing for marriage is, she wants a spouse. She once mentioned early in the season, I believe, that her grandparents were not pleased with her having another child out of wedlock. It appears her grandparents come from the era where people should be married if a child will soon arrive. That could be playing a major part in why she is wanting to be married.  I don't believe in that because two people should marry because they want to, not because they have to. Not at all sure where you got the notion that we are pushing for Maci to marry Taylor. If anything, I hope he doesn't marry her. He should marry her because he is ready and committed. When a guy has mentioned more than once he is not sure about marriage, that screams NO COMMITMENT.

 

I am also confused by your comment about Maci having a car and a house. How does that make for a committed relationship? Maci and Kyle King bought a house together and a new car. How did that work out for her?

 

Maci would not have three homes under her belt and two cars if not for MTV. Let's get that clear. I have seen more committed relationships by people who live in an apartment and have to use public transportation.

I agree with everything you say but I still find it profoundly weird that these people are more williing to commit to having a child together than a life together. In my mind, having a baby automatically forces you to spend at least 18 years of your life interacting with each other in some way and that is a bigger commitment (to me, at least). Now, I know, that at this point Taylor/Tyler does not have a choice about having a baby with Maci but it amuses me that he's so unwilling to marry while he is so inextricably tied to her for the duration of his daughter's life.  A wife, you can walk away from. A baby, not so much.

Edited June 11, 2015 by evilmindatwork

[GreatKazu]

 

I still find it profoundly weird that these people are more williing to commit to having a child together than a life together.

As these shows have shown quite a few times, these couples rush into living together and "being a family" without any thought whatsoever as to what they are getting into. Remember how Kail was when she got knocked up again and it was all sunshine and roses, even though she already had the experience of being with Jo and all that fighting that went on. What happened after she gave birth? She was back to bitching and complaining, telling Javi how hard it is to take care of a baby and the "woe is me" routine. It is similar to the girls who plan these big weddings. They put more thought into the wedding day than what marriage is all about.

[ghoulina]

Possibly he is enticed by the MTV check. I imagine Maci must have told him what they could pull in as a couple, and what he would earn if they had another season.  Taylor may not view it as Maci lying to him, the way the majority of us do. Taylor likely took Maci's word.

 

Plenty of guys stay with women who have "trap" babies. Often, they don't really view it that way. Who knows why? Denial, they were told a different story, etc. But very often they look past it just as partners often look past infidelity or other problems. And, quite possibly, they stay for the kid that didn't have a say in how he/she was created. Is Taylor going to stay forever? Doubtful. There are already too many issues in their young relationship, if you ask me. But him still being in the picture now isn't some big testament to Maci's forthrightness or how solid their foundation is. 

[Tatum]

 

Not at all sure where you got the notion that we are pushing for Maci to marry Taylor. If anything, I hope he doesn't marry her.

 

In all fairness, Maci's status as being unmarried has been brought up. However, it was not a 'Now that Maci's pregnant/had a baby she must get married to the father or she's a ruined woman', but rather, 'Why is Maci purposely trying to get pregnant with a man who's clearly indicated he's not ready for a long term commitment to her?'

[GreatKazu]

In all fairness, Maci's status as being unmarried has been brought up. However, it was not a 'Now that Maci's pregnant/had a baby she must get married to the father or she's a ruined woman', but rather, 'Why is Maci purposely trying to get pregnant with a man who's clearly indicated he's not ready for a long term commitment to her?'

I think what was being mentioned is, why force a commitment upon someone via a baby when he has made it clear he is not ready for the next step? This baby is being used as a pawn in order to ensure Taylor stays around when he may have reasons for not wanting to stay around long term. It wasn't enough for her that he moved from another state to be with her. It wasn't enough that he moved in with her. It is still not enough that she is having a baby with him. It seems Taylor just wanted to see how things would be with Maci and by moving closer to her, he was "trying on the shoes before buying" .

 

If Maci wants to have a baby without the benefit of a relationship or commitment, more power to her. I don't think she would be able to, but that's a different topic.

Edited June 11, 2015 by GreatKazu

[GreatKazu]

 

There are already too many issues in their young relationship, if you ask me. But him still being in the picture now isn't some big testament to Maci's forthrightness or how solid their foundation is.

Exactly.

[DoctorWhovian]

I think it's really rude to assume that when a woman gets pregnant, and is unmarried, and it was an unplanned pregnancy, that it's a "trap baby." And that term is kinda rude too. But that's just my opinion. (And, yes, there are women that do this, and men who mess with birth control and get their girl pregnant. But let's not pretend that this is such a common thing. Stupidity about birth control is a whole other issue.)

[Tatum]

 

I think it's really rude to assume that when a woman gets pregnant, and is unmarried, and it was an unplanned pregnancy, that it's a "trap baby."

 

Well, in general I'd agree with you, but in Maci's case, she has admitted this was not an unplanned pregnancy. Exactly how included Taylor was in her planned pregnancy is a source of speculation only.

[SPLAIN]

I think it's really rude to assume that when a woman gets pregnant, and is unmarried, and it was an unplanned pregnancy

Assume? Maci admitted it was a planned pregnancy. Depending what day of the week it is or whether it is raining or the sun is shining, she may go back and change her story again.

 

 

And that term is kinda rude too. But that's just my opinion.

I find it more upsetting that Maci threw her birth control pills aside and didn't tell Taylor while preaching to college students the importance of using birth control. IMO I really could care less what terms people here choose to use, they are not saying it to Maci's face or to her child. I sincerely doubt anyone here would ever refer to her baby as such if they were in her face.

 

 

Stupidity about birth control is a whole other issue

Well, we are talking about Maci here.

[ghoulina]

The problem is that Maci's story has changed. When she revealed her pregnancy on the show, she told producers she wasn't on BC because she didn't think she could get pregnant, so why bother. And then, ooooops, they did. But then on the "reunion" she claims they actually were kind of taking a "let's see what happens" approach, because they had a small chance of conceiving naturally. It all just comes off as a lot of BS. Why lie about your intentions? Maybe it's just to save face with her family? But I think people are assuming she made decisions behind Taylor's back because of how reluctant he's been to give her the commitment she wants. 

 

Maybe that's rude, but I'm sure I've said way worse things about these girls than guessing they got pregnant to solidify/prolong a relationship. This IS a snark forum after all.

[evilmindatwork]

The problem is that Maci's story has changed. When she revealed her pregnancy on the show, she told producers she wasn't on BC because she didn't think she could get pregnant, so why bother. And then, ooooops, they did. But then on the "reunion" she claims they actually were kind of taking a "let's see what happens" approach, because they had a small chance of conceiving naturally. It all just comes off as a lot of BS. 

I am sorry about harping on this but I am annoyed by the fact that she didn't research her lie better. Does she really think the audience is that stupid? Or that other people simply lack curiosity of the world the way that she does. 

[Tatum]

I am sorry about harping on this but I am annoyed by the fact that she didn't research her lie better. Does she really think the audience is that stupid? Or that other people simply lack curiosity of the world the way that she does. 

 

At this point, it would not surprise me if Maci was having irregular periods, googled it, and diagnosed herself with PCOS and read a few stories about women struggling to conceive. Maci is probably dim enough to believe that since she had never heard of PCOS (prior to her internet research) that most people also hadn't, and therefore would accept anything she said about it.

 

I actually know people like Maci. I had a friend who had an irregular pap, did some googling, and became convinced she had cervical cancer. 6 years later she still talks about "beating" cancer.

[truelovekiss]

I think a lot of these kids look at babies as sort of a keepsake for whatever relationship they're in. Like, if you're together with them, you need to have a child that's part of both you. For the rest of that child's life they're a walking, talking reminder of your relationship. It's a terrible way to think about having kids, but I really think that's how they look at it. How else do you explain getting pregnant (or trying to) at some point in every relationship you have? Look at Jenelle in TM2. She's gotten pregnant by every loser she's dated (except Kieeeeefa!)

That is so sad, but so accurate. Maci definitely tried to be that girl. She practically begged Kyle for a baby. To her credit, Ambie hasn't expressed much of an interest in procreating, but I wouldn't be surprised if Matt attempts to plant a trap baby in her. Leah is another one. The only one she's missing is Robbie's. That's why she keeps going back to him.

[ghoulina]

I am sorry about harping on this but I am annoyed by the fact that she didn't research her lie better. Does she really think the audience is that stupid? Or that other people simply lack curiosity of the world the way that she does.

 

Ha, agreed. Maybe she thinks PCOS is very rare? I don't know....I had trouble getting pregnant with my first and belonged to a message board for women who had fertility issues. I saw plenty of those gals get pregnant with PCOS, so *I* certainly know it's possible. 

[GreatKazu]

Maci thinks she can pull the wool over our eyes. She's full of it. I can't believe how she went from being one of the moms I thought would make something of herself, to being down the ranks with the likes of Kailyn.

 

Agree ghoulina. Most of us originated from a board where snark was the norm. There is a lot worse being posted and that is because of the material these people on this show give us.

 

I decided to check out the re-run of the first reunion, and I noticed Maci stated to Dr. Drew about her quitting the show that she said this: "I had agreed to do this season if her [Farrah] story wasn't going to be shown..."  Now, it may not make a big difference, but going by how Maci changes her version of the truth (as we see with the conception story and the birth control story), hearing Maci say those words, it comes off as if she sat with MTV during contract time and presented her feelings that she would love to do another season BUT, she doesn't want Farrah on the show. MTV agreed to it. When MTV changed their mind, that is when Maci lost it because her feelings (hate for Farrah) were no longer being considered.

[GreatKazu]

Maci thinks she can pull the wool over our eyes. She's full of it. I can't believe how she went from being one of the moms I thought would make something of herself, to being down the ranks with the likes of Kailyn.

 

Agree ghoulina. Most of us originated from a board where snark was the norm. There is a lot worse being posted and that is because of the material these people on this show give us.

 

I decided to check out the re-run of the first reunion, and I noticed Maci stated to Dr. Drew about her quitting the show: "I had agreed to do this season if her [Farrah] story wasn't going to be shown..."  She is not saying MTV presented her with the idea that Farrah was not going to be asked back and she agreed with them.  It comes off as her having sat with MTV during contract time and presented her feelings that she would love to do another season BUT, she doesn't want Farrah on the show. MTV agreed to it. When MTV changed their mind, that is when Maci lost it because her feelings (hate for Farrah) were no longer being considered.

Edited June 12, 2015 by GreatKazu

[Tatum]

Maci specifically stated during a TM2 special in 2014 that the decision not to bring Farrah back was not the decision of any of the teen moms, but that production felt like Farrah was no longer conducive to the show's agenda (or something to that effect). It came off as very diplomatic and rehearsed. Maci also sounded appropriately regretful about it, which regardless of how the decision went down, was probably an act.

 

So yes, with Maci, the truth is kind of a fluid concept.

 

To me, it just sounds like Maci is humble bragging that the production was so desperate to have her sign on with them that they were willing to lie to her to get her in, and then yanked the rug out from under her by adding Farrah halfway through the season. I suppose that's easier for her to swallow than production truly having no intentions of bringing Farrah back when they planned the season but had to change their minds when it occurred to them how fucking boring this season was.

[GreatKazu]

 

Maci specifically stated during a TM2 special in 2014 that the decision not to bring Farrah back was not the decision of any of the teen moms, but that production felt like Farrah was no longer conducive to the show's agenda (or something to that effect). It came off as very diplomatic and rehearsed. Maci also sounded appropriately regretful about it, which regardless of how the decision went down, was probably an act.

 

So yes, with Maci, the truth is kind of a fluid concept.

Agree. Maci will change the story (lie). I think because her comment on the reunion show seemed unrehearsed, it is why the truth seemed to come out.

 

It only seems natural that Maci is saying things that are being fed to her by MTV. After all, her speeches at these colleges are just speeches that she has rehearsed and been fed to her by MTV.  Maci is prohibited from answering certain questions that pertained to the show such as the income they earn. Someone long ago on the previous board had posted something about this. I think they attended one of those speeches by one of the girls, not sure if it was Maci, and they said the whole thing reeked of MTV manipulation. The poster mentioned something about how the answers to questions didn't seem to come naturally.

Edited June 12, 2015 by GreatKazu