One is the Loneliest Number: Unpopular GG Opinions

[tarotx]

Really only Logan's first appearance was he of the same vein as Tristan character wise. They both are of Society and have Daddy issues but if Tristan was to change it would be in the misunderstood area that Jess fit. If they can find someone who let's them in and trust them they can be saved. Though I feel Tristan didn't get a lot of screen time or use his screen time as affective as the boys that stuck.  I'm not sure what would have imploded Troy but Lit happened because of trust issues, Kyle's bedroom and him bolting. Basically neither ever felt safe and secure. 

Logan wasn't just an example of a child with too much expectations. He has a father who will come in and bully or impress the people around Logan, to force Logan's hand. One who refuses to see his seriously injured son at the hospital for principle all the while knowing that his wife checked into a spa. Plus that Honor wouldn't be able to get there for a couple of days. Meaning Logan has parents who would have left him without any family there. 

As for his character, Logan's more the Manic Pixie Dream teaching Rory to live while learns to accept responsibility. As a couple the issues with them is neither had stability on their own. They stabilized each other but when either was off kilter both free falled. Then both threw themselves back into who they were before the other though still craving what the other bought to their lives. 

Edited February 26, 2018 by tarotx

[ghoulina]

On 2/24/2018 at 4:47 PM, Taryn74 said:

I always felt kind of sorry for Tristan in a way I never did for Logan.  I don't know if it was just because he was so much younger when we knew him, or if it was the self-loathing thing you mentioned, but yeah.  Tristan had plenty of jerky moments but I never felt that he, himself, was a jerk.  And he wasn't nearly as entitled as Logan was.  (Although we got no indication his family was the very wealthy elite that the Huntzbergers were.)

Agree. 100%. It might also help that I found the actor who played Logan (I'm not even going to attempt to try and spell his last name) so weasely and smarmy, while I have a fondness for CMM. 

 

21 hours ago, elang4 said:

One thing I liked about Rory and Tristan was their banter. It kind of reminded me of Luke and Lorelai’s early days. And I agree that Rory stayed herself around Tristan whereas she totally changed for Logan.

Very good point. She didn't put up with Tristan's BS. She sassed him and called him out on stuff. She just seemed a lot more confident in his presence than she did with Logan. 

 

19 hours ago, clack said:

A key to the difference in character between Logan and Tristan : Logan challenged Rory in a way meant to intrigue her. Tristan challenged her in a way that he knew would repel her. That's why I believe Tristan was self-loathing. He felt, maybe only half-consciously, that he wasn't worthy of her.

Ooooh, yes. You're right. And season 7 is the only time where I moderately tolerate him - like how he supported Rory after Richard's heart attack. I never thought about that before. 

 

18 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

Maybe this sounds "uppity" but I have always found the comments on PTV (and formerly TWoP) much more intelligent, thoughtful, and articulate than those on FB.  

Oh dear God, if that's uppity, I'll gladly extend my pinky and mount my high horse. I'm in a FB group for GG and some of the comments are well thought out and reasonable, but so many are just "Logan was hot and so sweet!!!!"..."Luke was mean!".....sigh. And don't even get me started on the mean-girl cliqueishness that is the mods. 

[Taryn74]

I really do love the little community we've built here.  *group hug*

[Viqutorious]

5 hours ago, deaja said:

There is one “Gilmore Girls Community Group” that was linked here before. I joined but I’m not very active. It has 51,000 people and the conversations are harder to follow.

Thank you, I’ll skip it. I’m trying to boycott Facebook anyway!

[clack]

Don't know how UO it is, but I hated Tristan's cameo in the revival. It wasn't about him at all, it was about Paris's reaction to seeing him. And his revival portrayal as a smarmy pick-up artist didn't ring true with the Tristan we knew.

Original Tristan was the opposite of smooth. His approach to girls was abrasive and self-defeating, more of a cry for help than a serious attempt at seduction. And if all that he had been interested in is more notches on his bedpost, he would have used and discarded Paris.

I mean, I can see adult Tristan making drunken, futile, and self-mocking passes at random women, rather than his becoming some smooth-talking lady killer. Adult Tristan would have grown even more pathetic, or he would have turned his life around. It would have been a more interesting choice to see reunion Tristan as a proud husband, father, and Little League coach. Paris could have still have had her moment of angst.

Of course, there was no reason in the first place for Tristan being at a reunion for a school from which he was more or less expelled.

Edited February 26, 2018 by clack

[iknowyouknow]

Why read actual books when you can spend every waking minute reading these forums? I need a life outside of fandoms but don't see myself bothering to get one any time soon. :) Some more opinions that seem to be unpopular - 

1. I love Lane a lot. I like her a lot more than Paris, a fan favorite who I agree is a very unique and entertaining character but is better in slightly smaller quantities for me and who sometimes doesn't feel quite like a real person. Or at least a real person who'd be found outside of an institution. I appreciate Paris's dynamic with Rory and the funny, frenetic energy she lends to the show, and if I had to list the most memorable GG scenes, I suspect Paris would be featured in quite a few of them. But I don't have the genuine affection for her that I feel for a character like Lane and agree with folks upthread who said that in real life Paris would send them sprinting in the opposite direction. Lane, however, is one of the few GG characters who I would really want in my life. I'll put this further in the running for most unpopular opinion by admitting that I like Lane a lot more than Rory for the majority of the series and think she would have made a more dynamic protagonist. 

2. Dave Rygalski and Lane were probably the best couple of the whole show and I will never be over Dave leaving the show after just one season or, worse, the writers sticking Lane with Zach. I could have lived with Brian if they had felt the need to pair up Lane with a bandmate. But Zach? What did my darling Lane to do ASP to earn such a fate? ;) I'll just remind myself that if Dave had been on the show for a longer period of time, ASP would probably have found a way to tarnish his character and relationship with Lane beyond recognition ;) 

3. I don't care for Max or Dean, but the first two seasons are still my favorite, and it isn't even a close contest. Then comes the third season - Dave R. helps boost it above season 4! Then comes season 4. Then, beginning in season 5, there are a few great scenes in between a lot of despair over what happened to my favorite show. A lot of series I've loved peak in their middle seasons, but I always felt that, like Rory, GG started out at its best and kept rolling downhill from there. Max and Dean, even though they're on screen a lot [too much], don't usually affect my love for the show or our primary female characters nearly as much as some of the love interests and romances of later seasons do.

4. I think the show may have finally killed my love for Rory by the time season 5 rolled around, but I still love the other main characters - Lorelai, Luke, Emily - no matter how rage-y they can make me. 

5. I feel like we as a fandom don't talk enough about just how weird the whole Luke and Nicole relationship was from start to finish! The incompatible personalities involved. The fact that every episode we're supposed to suddenly have a totally different notion of how they feel about each other and where they are in their relationship. [A friend and I had a running joke about how she could literally never remember through any of season 3 and season 4 whether they were theoretically together or not and couldn't be bothered to care.] Luke recklessly marrying her on a cruise ship even though Luke might be the least likely person on earth ever to do that. I can't even see him ever wanting to take a cruise, let alone the rest of it. Then getting the marriage immediately annulled and ending their relationship and then starting to date again for literally no reason. Did they ever even like each other? I know that most of ASP's "what were you THINKING?" moments come later in the series, but I would love to ask her what she even had in mind with Luke/Nicole.

6. Edward Hermann was perfectly cast and made me like Richard more than I ever would have otherwise, and I'm in the majority who loves his relationship with Rory. But I think he was a middling at best husband and a much worse parent to Lorelai than Emily was. Emily always tried and cared, misguided as she may often have been, but Richard so often seemed detached from the people in his life who supposedly mattered most. The few times he made efforts to reach out to Lorelai, there was usually a clear motive behind it.

7. It seems so many people love season 5, and I can understand why, but for me it's such a disappointing season.

8. I despise the Life and Death Brigade. I don't think they're fun, adorably uninhibited, whimsical or however else we're supposed to view them. I don't get how Rory hanging out with them is supposed to represent her broadening her horizons and letting herself explore and grow because everything about them just screams pathetic to me. They're just ridiculous. Obnoxious, annoying, self-superior, idiotic, entitled, insufferable, thoughtless, selfish jerks. I don't even have the words to articulate why I find them so unbearable, but I could have included at least 50 more synonyms in the preceding sentence. 

8. I'm in agreement with the anti-AYITL sentiment, but I loved Fall. I have to skip through the Life and Death Brigade parts because if I let myself think about how AS GROWN MEN they're still dressing up in elaborate costumes, binge drinking nonstop to drown out the realization of how empty and hollow they are, breaking into stores because they think they can, spending more money than most of us make in a decade to rent out places for their exclusive use so that they don't have to interact with the plebians and partying with their mistresses before scurrying back to daddy's fortune 500 company, I will weep. But the rest of Fall was beautiful. I felt like Rory showed signs of waking the hell up and recapturing the better facets of herself that she had long ago let slip away, and LL's wedding made me swoon.

Thanks for welcoming me to this community!

Edited February 27, 2018 by iknowyouknow

[ghoulina]

1 hour ago, iknowyouknow said:

I despise the Life and Death Brigade. I don't think they're fun, adorably uninhibited, whimsical or however else we're supposed to view them. I don't get how Rory hanging out with them is supposed to represent her broadening her horizons and letting herself explore and grow because everything about them just screams pathetic to me. They're just ridiculous. Obnoxious, annoying, self-superior, idiotic, entitled, insufferable, thoughtless, selfish jerks. I don't even have the words to articulate why I find them so unbearable, but I could have included at least 50 more synonyms in the preceding sentence. 

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU. 

[elang4]

2 hours ago, iknowyouknow said:

 

5. I feel like we as a fandom don't talk enough about just how weird the whole Luke and Nicole relationship was from start to finish! The incompatible personalities involved. The fact that every episode we're supposed to suddenly have a totally different notion of how they feel about each other and where they are in their relationship. [A friend and I had a running joke about how she could literally never remember through any of season 3 and season 4 whether they were theoretically together or not and couldn't be bothered to care.] Luke recklessly marrying her on a cruise ship even though Luke might be the least likely person on earth ever to do that. I can't even see him ever wanting to take a cruise, let alone the rest of it. Then getting the marriage immediately annulled and ending their relationship and then starting to date again for literally no reason. Did they ever even like each other? I know that most of ASP's "what were you THINKING?" moments come later in the series, but I would love to ask her what she even had in mind with Luke/Nicole.

Their relationship was weird. I’m in the majority that didn’t really like them together just because I’m a JavaJunkie but I do actually think Luke and Nicole did genuinely like each other. Especially the first round of dating they did. Not sure about the second half of season 4 but I did think they hit it off the first time.

[elang4]

Also, even though I’m a Luke/Lorelai shipper, I’d actually would have liked to see a bit more of a Luke/Rachel relationship. I really liked Rachel and I actually think her and Lorelai could have become really good friends as well. ?

[slf]

Sookie should have immediately divorced Jackson upon learning he'd lied about getting a vasectomy.

[elang4]

14 minutes ago, slf said:

Sookie should have immediately divorced Jackson upon learning he'd lied about getting a vasectomy.

I think they were both in the wrong in that situation. Of course Jackson should have told her that he didn’t go through with it but also Sookie did pretty much force him into having one straight away. She should have talked to him first and explained why she wanted him to have one. Instead she gave him no option and pressured him into something very big which wasn’t fair on Jackson either.

[Crs97]

Jackson should have divorced Sookie and sued the hospital for assault when she convinced two men to drag him to the OR and force him to get the vasectomy.

[slf]

While I don't agree with what Sookie did and I think the writing for that was idiotic, I'm not gonna make equivalences between the two. Jackson wasn't forced to have a vasectomy- Sookie was forced to become pregnant. That's reproductive coercion, it's abuse.

[Kohola3]

I have to agree, @slf.  They could not force Jackson to do anything, he would have to sign a consent. But in allowing Sookie to think he'd had it was absolutely wrong and an egregious lie of omission.

With that said, I believe I heard that the whole ridiculous "well, I didn't go through with it" story line came about because of Melissa McCarthy's pregnancy.

[slf]

12 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

With that said, I believe I heard that the whole ridiculous "well, I didn't go through with it" story line came about because of Melissa McCarthy's pregnancy.

That was their reasoning?! Vasectomies have an incredibly low fail rate but they still have one! They could've just gone with that instead of turning Jackson into a misogynist who deceived his wife and forced her to become pregnant against her will.

I can just imagine what the response would've been if the opposite had happened. If Sookie had actually sabotaged her own birth control and gotten pregnant when Jackson didn't want any more kids. People would've been screaming about baby-trapping.

Edited February 28, 2018 by slf

[Crs97]

To be fair, Jackson didn’t tell her he said no to the vasectomy because she said she was going to remain on the pill.  Then she didn’t tell him she went off the pill because she figured he had the vasectomy.  I am not saying this isn’t the dumbest plot line ever, but Jackson wasn’t trying to force her to get pregnant again.

[Taryn74]

1 hour ago, Crs97 said:

To be fair, Jackson didn’t tell her he said no to the vasectomy because she said she was going to remain on the pill.  Then she didn’t tell him she went off the pill because she figured he had the vasectomy.  I am not saying this isn’t the dumbest plot line ever, but Jackson wasn’t trying to force her to get pregnant again.

Seriously.

The whole thing was stupid, certainly, but there was nothing malicious on either side.  If ASP was a normal, rational person she would have just have had the vasectomy been a failure for one reason or another, and Sookie would have only insisted on the vasectomy in the first place because of a misunderstanding after she and Jackson had discussed it once (kind of a reversal of the 'four in four' - 'oh...kay' conversation) but ASP being ASP we got this ridiculousness instead.  Sometimes you just have to roll your eyes and move on and not read too much into it.

[slf]

3 hours ago, Crs97 said:

To be fair, Jackson didn’t tell her he said no to the vasectomy because she said she was going to remain on the pill.  Then she didn’t tell him she went off the pill because she figured he had the vasectomy.  I am not saying this isn’t the dumbest plot line ever, but Jackson wasn’t trying to force her to get pregnant again.

Okay but not mentioning that you've gone off the pill when you believe your spouse has had a vasectomy isn't like lying about having had a vasectomy. The consequence of the first situation is, 99% of the time, nothing. The consequence of the second can, and after a long enough time will, be pregnancy. I'm not saying Jackson did it specifically to get her pregnant but he certainly had to know it was a risk since the pill has a much higher fail rate than a vasectomy does. He didn't have the right to make that choice by himself since Sookie is the one who would have to actually become pregnant.

1 hour ago, Taryn74 said:

Seriously.

The whole thing was stupid, certainly, but there was nothing malicious on either side.  If ASP was a normal, rational person she would have just have had the vasectomy been a failure for one reason or another, and Sookie would have only insisted on the vasectomy in the first place because of a misunderstanding after she and Jackson had discussed it once (kind of a reversal of the 'four in four' - 'oh...kay' conversation) but ASP being ASP we got this ridiculousness instead.  Sometimes you just have to roll your eyes and move on and not read too much into it.

We've discussed here and elsewhere personality traits and dialogue that was meant to be light-hearted or comedic and broken it down to discuss how it was actually controlling, manipulative, or otherwise just messed up. If we can do that about Lorelai's habits w/r/t Rory than I can do it here.

[iknowyouknow]

On a broader level, this show had far too many unplanned or at least unexpected pregnancies. It felt like the go to storyline every single time they ran out of ideas about what else to do with a character. Sookie (x3), Sherry, Lane, Liz, the Anna/April thing, Rory (ayitl) were all surprise pregnancies except maybe one of Sookie's, and of course the whole show is based on Lorelai's unplanned pregnancy at age 16. It's a good thing Emily was the past the age of getting pregnant when the show began or I'm sure we'd have been treated to a few surprise younger siblings for Lorelai along the way. ;) ASP's plots were never exactly innovative - it's her dialogue and [some] characters that get the acclaim, and rightly so. But even by ASP's standards, the multiple surprise pregnancies felt lazy and recycled after awhile.  

Edited February 28, 2018 by iknowyouknow

[steff13]

I don't know if this qualifies as an unpopular opinion, but Mitchum was right; Rory didn't have it.

[Crs97]

Steff, that isn’t unpopular with me!  Mitchum even tried to get her to step up, and she was awful in that internship.  He was right, and Richard was wrong to yell at him about it.  It wasn’t Mitchum’s responsibility to buoy her self confidence.  If that was enough to make her steal a yacht, then she was totally delusional that she had any hope of becoming the next Christiane Amanpour.

[steff13]

2 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

Steff, that isn’t unpopular with me!  Mitchum even tried to get her to step up, and she was awful in that internship.  He was right, and Richard was wrong to yell at him about it.  It wasn’t Mitchum’s responsibility to buoy her self confidence.  If that was enough to make her steal a yacht, then she was totally delusional that she had any hope of becoming the next Christiane Amanpour.

Agreed.  And then in the episode where they all air their grievances (Friday Night's All Right for Fighting?), Lorelai tells Richard and Emily to give Rory a break because she was going through something terrible.  No, she was going through a minor setback much like we all go through in life all the time.  It's really their fault she couldn't handle that type of rejection like a rational human being.

[iknowyouknow]

Oh no, please do not get me going on Rory dropping out of college and committing a felony because Mitchum criticized her or how blatantly unsuited she was for journalism since the beginning of the series. Please don't. I am trying to fit in here and don't want to reveal just how crazy and rant-y I am so soon after settling into my new cyberspace home ;)

BUT I will just say that all those posts several pages back about how Rory's personality, passions, interests, talents and choices all point to her being meant to do something with fiction - teaching it, editing it, researching it - echoed what I'd thought and hoped for from the beginning of the show! If Mitchum's comments had spurred Rory into reevaluating these goals that she'd apparently set for herself before most of us learned to crawl, forcing her to figure out who she really was and what she really wanted versus what she'd always thought she was or wanted or what she felt Lorelai and others expected of her, exploring new potential areas of interest, realizing how some of the decisions she makes with regard to her love life reflect her uncertainties about her own real identity, then that could have been my favorite arc of the series.

So I agree that MItchum was right about Rory not being in the right field. He's an insensitive, arrogant man, but right. He was also right when it came to how his immature, spoiled, cocky son Flasky McSmirk or whatever you awesome folks call him, who had just sustained injuries after voluntarily choosing to jump off a cliff or something equally absurd, should get away from "idiots" Colin and Finn (Mitchum's word for them - and mine!) and might benefit from a change of environment and being forced to take on a little bit of responsibility for once. Once again, MItchum's specific delivery of his message sucks, but the message itself - Logan going down the wrong road - was, in my unpopular opinion, correct.

I just realized that my unpopular opinion is that I actually like Micthum more than his son. They're both terrible, but Mitchum's terribleness is more openly acknowledged and of a variety that bothers me a little less.

Edited February 28, 2018 by iknowyouknow

[Katy M]

5 minutes ago, iknowyouknow said:

If Mitchum's comments had spurred Rory into reevaluating these goals that she'd apparently set for herself before most of us learned to crawl, forcing her to figure out who she really was and what she really wanted versus what she'd always thought she was or wanted or what she felt Lorelai and others expected of her, exploring new potential areas of interest, realizing how some of the decisions she makes with regard to her love life reflect her uncertainties about her own real identity, then that could have been my favorite arc of the series.

So I agree that MItchum was right about Rory not being in the right field. He's an insensitive, arrogant man, but right.

He wasn't actually even all that mean about it.  He didn't yell at her.  He didn't use swear words. He pointed out her strengths. 

Just thinking about this makes me wish there had been a storyline about Rory going on a show like Hell's Kitchen for journalists.  First of all, I'm going to say if I were on Hell's Kitchen, I would probably throw a spatula at Chef Ramsay and walk out.  Nobody deserves to be yelled and screamed at while trying to do a job.  But, with Rory not even being able to take normal level criticism, I don't even know what she would do in a situation like that.

[slf]

Dear Richard and Emily was not good. The only part I liked was Rory's panicked called to Lorelai, "THEY'RE GIVING ME GLOVES!" The actor playing teenaged Chris looked somewhat like him but also 28, and the actress playing young Lorelai had such a ridiculously high voice it kept throwing me off.

[Guest]

I had a friend get pregnant when her husband didn’t go for his post-vasectomy testing and assumed it had worked. That would have been so much better of a plot. Jackson was supposed to go for his follow-up but got distracted growing a hybrid vegetable and got distracted.

But I disagree it’s reproductive coercion. I think it’s a man who was afraid to tell his wife something that would make her mad so he assumed it wouldn’t matter. Then it did.

[steff13]

1 hour ago, slf said:

Dear Richard and Emily was not good. The only part I liked was Rory's panicked called to Lorelai, "THEY'RE GIVING ME GLOVES!" The actor playing teenaged Chris looked somewhat like him but also 28, and the actress playing young Lorelai had such a ridiculously high voice it kept throwing me off.

It's a bad episode.  I do enjoy Rory's interaction with Sherri.   And I like Sherri's friend Maureen insisting "Sherri screwed up," because she went into labor instead of "waiting" to have the baby when it was scheduled.  :) 

46 minutes ago, deaja said:

I had a friend get pregnant when her husband didn’t go for his post-vasectomy testing and assumed it had worked. That would have been so much better of a plot. Jackson was supposed to go for his follow-up but got distracted growing a hybrid vegetable and got distracted.

But I disagree it’s reproductive coercion. I think it’s a man who was afraid to tell his wife something that would make her mad so he assumed it wouldn’t matter. Then it did.

My brother went for the testing, then my SIL got pregnant a couple of years later because it repaired itself.  Our niece will be 10 in October. 

I agree with you about the coercion. 

[nclpllm]

On 2/24/2018 at 7:15 PM, tarotx said:

He had a potential of going in the direction of his childhood sucked so he had reasons to be a jerk, Like Jess

Is it too late to weigh in on Tristan? Eh, I'm going for it. "Not great" parents was this show's M.O. when they wanted a character to be more sympathetic. They used it on Paris. They used it on Tristan. They used it on Jess- in the Bracebridge dinner when he jumps in the carriage with Rory, the music even gets sadder to signal to us to feel sorry for him. I used to assume Sookie's parents were dead just because she never bitched about them (like Luke, who's parents were dead).

When Rory wanted to know why Paris liked Tristan, it was the same time Lorelai asked Sookie about Rachel. Small insights into the lives of guys they weren't dating but potentially could in the future. 

I missed the first several episodes, so by the time the cute boy is giving the longing look to the girl at the dance, I wanted him to get the girl. I was even confused at the S1 finale, when Dean and Rory were kissing. I knew it was a happy ending for the protagonist, but was distracted by the sad boy who walked away. There was no reason to show him if they weren't going to go somewhere with it one day (think Luke sadly watching Max and Lorelai in the snow). 

Jess was a stand-in to me, someone who wasn't Dean to root for because I didn't know they were writing Dean like that (annoying) on purpose. But he didn't do anything for me. He didn't watch Dean and Rory from afar wishing he had the girl. 

I think those vulnerable moments Tristan had- at the piano bench, sad and dumped, sorry for giving Rory a hard time; when they talk after they kiss; and before he leaves, we see that softer side other's have noted. Those were missing with Jess and Logan. It is weird that he was reincarnated (and I know some disagree on whether or not Logan was the continuation of Tristan, but I'm a firm believer), and it hurt the story and Rory's character. If Tristan had stayed or returned, we know Rory didn't take crap from him and saw another side of him. That was missing with Logan. Tristan could have grown up and been less obnoxious (granted, this might have required a writer that was not continuity and character development-allergic ASP); we saw Rory soften toward him, it could have made more sense for her feelings on him to evolve. With Logan, there wasn't a clear indication of why she changed her mind. The way they wrote it, made her look interested when she found out the influential Mitchum Huntzberger was Logan's dad. I know we are not to think such things about Rory Gilmore, but that's how they wrote it. 

For a while I've maintained that S4 was a kind of gap year in Rory's love life. They couldn't get CMM back and had to resort to reliving the Jess/Dean decision, and had to quickly make up time in S5. Why they bothered wasting time on another doomed relationship with Dean, I don't know. One could point out it was to be the working-class foil to the now more exciting rich in-crowd. But why use Marty for the same ends? It's redundant.  

And rather than show Logan in sympathetic moments, they just made his family conveniently impressive in the journalism world to save time. 

Whew! I haven't written a Tristan post this long in forever! 

Edited February 28, 2018 by nclpllm

[ghoulina]

On 2/27/2018 at 3:26 PM, slf said:

Sookie should have immediately divorced Jackson upon learning he'd lied about getting a vasectomy.

She never should have forced him in the first place. What kind of wife sets up an appointment for her husband like he's a child? She acted like she was running the show and he had no say in the relationship? I HATED her in that moment. He should have been upfront with her, but damn. 

 

23 hours ago, steff13 said:

I don't know if this qualifies as an unpopular opinion, but Mitchum was right; Rory didn't have it.

I think he ended up being right, but I still think he was an ass in that situation. It seemed like he thought there was only way to be a journalist, and since Rory's personality didn't fit that - it meant she didn't have it. He acted like the authority on journalism. It just bugged me.  I think he was just being a condescending jerk, but she did prove him right in the end. 

 

18 hours ago, slf said:

Dear Richard and Emily was not good. The only part I liked was Rory's panicked called to Lorelai, "THEY'RE GIVING ME GLOVES!" The actor playing teenaged Chris looked somewhat like him but also 28, and the actress playing young Lorelai had such a ridiculously high voice it kept throwing me off.

I hate that episode so much. It wasn't necessarily how they looked, but I found them to be the most cringe-worthy of actors. The girl, especially. Ugh. And then there's Sherri's suddenly bleach blonde hair - when she's heavily pregnant! 

Oh, and I always hated when Lorelai corrects Chris and says that RORY is "perfect" and Gigi is a "close second". I get her bitter feelings because of Chris's past, but damn....let the man have his moment. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ghoulina said:

I hate that episode so much. It wasn't necessarily how they looked, but I found them to be the most cringe-worthy of actors. The girl, especially. Ugh. And then there's Sherri's suddenly bleach blonde hair - when she's heavily pregnant! 

I’ve ranted about this episode before but I hate hate hate how they act like because Sherry’s friends are driven career women, none of them understand that births can’t be planned all the time. 

[ghoulina]

17 minutes ago, deaja said:

I’ve ranted about this episode before but I hate hate hate how they act like because Sherry’s friends are driven career women, none of them understand that births can’t be planned all the time. 

YES. It makes them look so ignorant. Just because women are heavily pursuing their careers and aren't into having babies at that time (or ever) doesn't mean they don't understand the basics of pregnancy. It's pretty well known knowledge that due dates are fluid. 

[Katy M]

3 hours ago, deaja said:

I’ve ranted about this episode before but I hate hate hate how they act like because Sherry’s friends are driven career women, none of them understand that births can’t be planned all the time. 

I'm sure they probably did know.  But, they're fair-weather friends.  Sherry screwed up.  Therefore they weren't responsible.  Plus, they didn't care about the baby.  It wasn't really about being ignorant of how childbirth works.  It was more that they were cold.  Like Sherry.

Edited March 1, 2018 by Katy M

[steff13]

4 hours ago, ghoulina said:

YES. It makes them look so ignorant. Just because women are heavily pursuing their careers and aren't into having babies at that time (or ever) doesn't mean they don't understand the basics of pregnancy. It's pretty well known knowledge that due dates are fluid. 

What about Maureen calling Rory and asking her if she can reschedule school?  These career women all went to school, right?  Certainly they know that school can't be rescheduled. 

[Kohola3]

That whole episode was just cringe-worthy from beginning to end.  I delete it as soon as I see it on the DVR list.

[Frelling Tralk]

21 hours ago, nclpllm said:

I think those vulnerable moments Tristan had- at the piano bench, sad and dumped, sorry for giving Rory a hard time; when they talk after they kiss; and before he leaves, we see that softer side other's have noted. Those were missing with Jess and Logan. It is weird that he was reincarnated (and I know some disagree on whether or not Logan was the continuation of Tristan, but I'm a firm believer), and it hurt the story and Rory's character. If Tristan had stayed or returned, we know Rory didn't take crap from him and saw another side of him. That was missing with Logan. Tristan could have grown up and been less obnoxious (granted, this might have required a writer that was not continuity and character development-allergic ASP); we saw Rory soften toward him, it could have made more sense for her feelings on him to evolve. With Logan, there wasn't a clear indication of why she changed her mind.  

 

I think that Tristan’s interest in Rory was always meant to be completely one-sided, and that was why she never took any crap from him. She came across as crushing on Logan a bit from the beginning, whereas she just seemed genuinely irritated when Tristan kept calling her ‘Mary’ and wouldn't leave her alone. She only really softened towards Tristan when he showed a different side of himself at the piano, plus she was on the rebound there and struggling with her recent breakup with Dean, but I still never get the impression that she was remotely interested in him past that moment as a potential partner, it came across like that sort of smarmy rich boy wasn’t her type at all back then. 

I always felt like the writers never seriously intended to do anything much with Tristan’s character, he was mostly only used as an unfavourable contrast to Dean in Rory's eyes, a trap that Dean himself later fell into when Jess turns up on the scene, and it’s suddenly being pushed how much better suited Jess and Rory are

Edited March 1, 2018 by Frelling Tralk

[Katy M]

29 minutes ago, steff13 said:

What about Maureen calling Rory and asking her if she can reschedule school?  These career women all went to school, right?  Certainly they know that school can't be rescheduled. 

Or, possibly Rory's reputation had preceded her and Maureen just assumed that they would reschedule school for Princess Rory.  And, that seems really mean of me considering that I like high school Rory.  But, she did seem to get a lot of perks and exceptions made for her.

[slf]

6 hours ago, ghoulina said:

She never should have forced him in the first place. What kind of wife sets up an appointment for her husband like he's a child? She acted like she was running the show and he had no say in the relationship? I HATED her in that moment. He should have been upfront with her, but damn. 

She didn't force him to have anything done, in fact doing so would have been impossible. The most she could've done is schedule an appointment to discuss the procedure and even that might not be true. Such stupid writing there. She was demanding, I don't disagree, but there's a world of difference between being demanding and lying to your spouse about being sterilized.

I don't know if this is an UO or not but: as much as I enjoyed Paris and her and Rory's friendship, I never understood why Rory would be friends with her when they were at Chilton. Paris was high-strung, prone to angry outbursts, paranoid and distrustful, half of what came out of her mouth was insulting, she didn't have anything in common with Rory beyond being academically competitive and wanting to go to Harvard. Such a weird mashup, and yeah opposites can attract but not usually with that much hostility.

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, slf said:

. The most she could've done is schedule an appointment to discuss the procedure and even that might not be true.

 Yes in the real world, but apparently in Stars Hollow world you can have a man dragged away to do this.  Why she thought she unilaterally could make a decision about their reproductive plans and Jackson’s body is beyond me. 

[clack]

Out of all of Rory's beaus and quasi-beaus -- Dean, Tristan, Jess, Marty, Logan -- only Logan didn't idealize her as the Good Girl, and loved her for who she was.

[slf]

59 minutes ago, deaja said:

 Yes in the real world, but apparently in Stars Hollow world you can have a man dragged away to do this.  

Well, apparently you can't because it didn't happen.

2 hours ago, Frelling Tralk said:

I think that Tristan’s interest in Rory was always meant to be completely one-sided, and that was why she never took any crap from him. She came across as crushing on Logan a bit from the beginning, whereas she just seemed genuinely irritated when Tristan kept calling her ‘Mary’ and wouldn't leave her alone. She only really softened towards Tristan when he showed a different side of himself at the piano, plus she was on the rebound there and struggling with her recent breakup with Dean, but I still never get the impression that she was remotely interested in him past that moment as a potential partner, it came across like that sort of smarmy rich boy wasn’t her type at all back then. 

I always felt like the writers never seriously intended to do anything much with Tristan’s character, he was mostly only used as an unfavourable contrast to Dean in Rory's eyes, a trap that Dean himself later fell into when Jess turns up on the scene, and it’s suddenly being pushed how much better suited Jess and Rory are

 

Agreed. I don't think there were any big plans for Tristan.

Quote

Out of all of Rory's beaus and quasi-beaus -- Dean, Tristan, Jess, Marty, Logan -- only Logan didn't idealize her as the Good Girl, and loved her for who she was.

I think Dean and Jess actually both understood that Rory had flaws. I recall both of them calling her out.

Edited March 1, 2018 by slf

[elang4]

3 minutes ago, clack said:

Out of all of Rory's beaus and quasi-beaus -- Dean, Tristan, Jess, Marty, Logan -- only Logan didn't idealize her as the Good Girl, and loved her for who she was.

I never thought Jess idealised her as the Good Girl. Sure he may have thought she had a good, easy life but he questioned and challenged her as well.

[Anela]

9 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

That whole episode was just cringe-worthy from beginning to end.  I delete it as soon as I see it on the DVR list.

That episode gave me one of my favourite lines: Sherry's, "I WROTE IT DOWN!!" It was just her delivery, no pun intended. She had it all planned, and then life happened. 

[Taryn74]

I have a love/hate with DEaR.  Some parts of it I love, some parts of it I hate.  Sometimes when I watch it I'm more ambivalent to either side, too.  Depends on my mood.

I seriously wanted to slap Maureen every time she screeched "Sherry screwed up!" though.  Up your meds, lady.

[nclpllm]

On 2/28/2018 at 9:21 AM, steff13 said:

I don't know if this qualifies as an unpopular opinion, but Mitchum was right; Rory didn't have it.

I think it's become popular among viewers, will never be popular with the writers. They're in denial. 

21 hours ago, steff13 said:

What about Maureen calling Rory and asking her if she can reschedule school?  These career women all went to school, right?  Certainly they know that school can't be rescheduled. 

The Gilmore girls maintain a perfect work-life balance. While housewife/soccer mom is unacceptable, being too career driven merits criticism as well. It's a narrow path to having 'it all' correctly.   

18 hours ago, slf said:

Agreed. I don't think there were any big plans for Tristan.

They weren't exactly planners, in general. But there doesn't have to be a plan to obligate them to deliver. I have huge doubts Luke was an avenue they were eager to go down. Also, they could have had written Tristan out easily enough in a line of dialogue when school started and be done with it. Instead they dealt with the hassle of flying him out from NC to remind us they kissed, adding that he'd like to kiss her goodbye. That left some people hoping he'd come back for that kiss. It's just irresponsible writing to put the idea out there without intention to do something with it later.  

I'm probably not persuading anyone who's against the idea. But one last point. If there was a Tristan when Rory got to college, would there still have been a Logan in addition? When it originally aired, a dejection sat in when I realized it wasn't just actor unavailability; Logan made Tristan unnecessary. 

Edited March 2, 2018 by nclpllm

[slf]

19 minutes ago, nclpllm said:

They weren't exactly planners, in general. But there doesn't have to be a plan to obligate them to deliver. I have huge doubts Luke was an avenue they were eager to go down. Also, they could have had written Tristan out easily enough in a line of dialogue when school started and be done with it. Instead they dealt with the hassle of flying him out from NC to remind us they kissed, adding that he'd like to kiss her goodbye. That left some people hoping he'd come back for that kiss. It's just irresponsible writing to put the idea out there without intention to do something with it later.  

I'm probably not persuading anyone who's against the idea. But one last point. If there was a Tristan when Rory got to college, would there still have been a Logan in addition? When it originally aired, a dejection sat in when I realized it wasn't just actor unavailability; Logan made Tristan unnecessary. 

Logan making Tristan unnecessary sort of, for me, highlights how Tristan was ultimately a throwaway character. He could've been more, sure, but so could a lot of other characters. I think ASP would've liked to have kept Tristan throughout the first three seasons, sure; Rory needed story lines at Chilton and Tristan could've been a part of that but I don't think anything they did in the last few episodes of season one laid the foundation for more. CMM apparently felt the same. I think the important thing when it comes to Tristan's potential w/r/t Rory is that they never had Rory take an interest in him. Not even briefly.

I don't think the writers are obligated to deliver certain story lines just because fans assume that's what's going to happen. And I don't think not delivering is irresponsible. I mean, if there actually had been some big plan and they'd devoted a bunch of screen time to building up a certain arc or relationship and then just changed their minds that would strike me as bad writing. But that wasn't the cast here.

Dean and Jess are the only boyfriends I think ASP was 100% sure about, really had plans for.

[ghoulina]

13 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

I have a love/hate with DEaR.  Some parts of it I love, some parts of it I hate.  Sometimes when I watch it I'm more ambivalent to either side, too.  Depends on my mood.

I seriously wanted to slap Maureen every time she screeched "Sherry screwed up!" though.  Up your meds, lady.

I must say, as much as I loathe that episode, I never skip it. It has one of my favorite Lorelai/Emily moments ever - when Lor gets her the DVD player and all her favorite musicals to watch when Richard is out of town. Such a selfless, thoughtful moment. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I must say, as much as I loathe that episode, I never skip it. It has one of my favorite Lorelai/Emily moments ever - when Lor gets her the DVD player and all her favorite musicals to watch when Richard is out of town. Such a selfless, thoughtful moment. 

I love that scene as well. 

[nclpllm]

On 3/2/2018 at 11:57 AM, slf said:

I don't think the writers are obligated to deliver certain story lines just because fans assume that's what's going to happen. And I don't think not delivering is irresponsible. 

It is if they were the ones putting the ideas out there. ASP has a knack for leaving viewers unsatisfied and less willing to trust her. She's led people on several times, hurting her credibility. Not that it's the only flaw in her writing.  

Unpopular opinion: I always liked Tristan and wished for him to return for a romantic plot. Until I remember how bad they were at relationship and how good they were at character assassination. In the end, not worth it.   

On 3/1/2018 at 4:34 PM, elang4 said:

I never thought Jess idealised her as the Good Girl.

I think there was some idealizing after he left though. He was carrying around an image of her 17 year old self when she was 21. People change. He didn't know what was going on in her life when she dropped out of Yale. I don't know about the popularity on this, but I think timing had just as much to do with her going back as what Jess said, or that it was him. I've heard only Jess could get through to her. But she wasn't happy with her life at that point. His timing was lucky. 

Edited March 6, 2018 by nclpllm

[slf]

46 minutes ago, nclpllm said:

It is if they were the ones putting the ideas out there.

But did they? Just because they show a boy crushing on Rory doesn't mean they intend for him to become a love interest down the line. Look at Marty. And writers aren't obligated to stick to an idea if they like another better. They really aren't.

46 minutes ago, nclpllm said:

She's led people on several times, hurting her credibility. Not that it's the only flaw in her writing.

I think people have a tendency to confuse fanon with canon. Thinking something would be a good idea, wanting it to happen, doesn't mean there's a grand plan to actually do it, doesn't mean it's there. And if it isn't there you aren't being misled. I've seen nothing that indicates there was any intention to do Trory. And, to be frank, CMM is a very limited actor- something that became plain with his expanded story line. I can't blame ASP for not exploring that option.

Edited March 6, 2018 by slf

[stan4]

On 3/1/2018 at 9:58 AM, ghoulina said:

YES. It makes them look so ignorant. Just because women are heavily pursuing their careers and aren't into having babies at that time (or ever) doesn't mean they don't understand the basics of pregnancy. It's pretty well known knowledge that due dates are fluid. 

Goes back to how characters just turn into caricatures so much for people like ASP.