One is the Loneliest Number: Unpopular GG Opinions

[JaggedLilPill]

Coming out of lurkerdome to say I also don't think Lane did anything that terrible. If anything, I'm more offended that Mrs. Kim didn't even give Lane options of where she wanted to go to college and forced the school she ended up attending on her. Considering we find out during Lane and Zach’s wedding that Mrs. Kim’s mom is Buddhist and Mrs. Kim has been hiding the fact that she’s a Seventh Day Adventist from her, I’d say Mrs. Kim comes off as a hypocrite. It’s okay for her to choose another religion, but it’s not okay for Lane to decide her own path? Okay then.

 

 

My UO – although I’m not sure if it is that unpopular – is that I don’t think Dean was wrong breaking up with Rory at the dance marathon the way he did. I agree Dean got crazy jealous and controlling, but Rory made mistakes there too. And if my significant other had been flirting with someone else for nearly a year, made out with them behind my back (which I never found out about) and then got into some lame “You’re not making me jealous” pissing match in front of me, I would have definitely been all “You know what? This is ridiculous. Peace out.”

Edited November 22, 2014 by JaggedLilPill

[amensisterfriend]

JaggedLilPill, I can't stand Dean for reasons I've already ranted about (not the least of which is that he was just so BORING!), but even I didn't have a problem with when or even how he broke up with her, so you're definitely not alone :)

 

Given that this is easily one of my favorite shows of all time, it's weird how few of these characters I would want to spend time with in real life. I enjoy a lot of them for entertainment purposes, but even the ones I find most amusing, interesting and compelling (like Paris!), aren't people I'd actually like to be around. I'd have liked to talk about books and eat junk food with Early Seasons Rory, and...actually, that might be it :) Lorelai is a vivid and really interesting character for me, but she'd bug me to no end in real life. Most of the townies would be borderline insufferable. I enjoy Jess as a fictional character and his affect on other characters, but I'd probably despise the punk in real life. And you guys already know my unpopular dislike for Luke :) 

Edited November 22, 2014 by amensisterfriend

[Kohola3]

Given that this is easily one of my favorite shows of all time, it's weird how few of these characters I would want to spend time with in real life.

 

Absolutely agree.  First of all I couldn't keep up with the rapid fire rhetoric and repeating "what, huh?" over and over would get tiresome very quickly.

 

Of course, the elder Gilmores wouldn't give me a glance since I am not of superior breeding so I can cross them off.  Luke's rants would end up with me slapping him upside the head. Ditto for sullen Jess.  Kirk I would probably go to court to have locked up for a pysch exam.  Taylor I would run over the first time he crossed the street at the 2 minute stoplight on the square.  Lorelai and Rory - just way too cute except in small doses.  Couldn't count on them as friends because they were both so totally self centered.  Except for Rory searching for the elusive hit and run deer, can't think of either of them truly putting themselves out to help anybody, at least for very long or just until that person began cutting into their "me" time.

 

Maury and I could hang out, though.  Laid back dude.  And maybe Gypsy; she was a straight shooter.  The reverend and the rabbi I quite liked so guess I could manage a few of the minor characters.

[solotrek]

I don't think I'd hang out with anyone, I'd got a step further and say that I wouldn't want to deal with them in a professional setting. I'd definitely hire Tom as a contractor. Seemed honest, knew what he was doing, and genuinely wanted to get the work done to the best of his ability. Sookie's food would be amazing and the Inn would be nice to stay in as long as I didn't have to deal with a surely Frenchman. That's probably about it.

Edited November 22, 2014 by maculae

[amensisterfriend]

Maury and I could hang out, though.  Laid back dude.  And maybe Gypsy; she was a straight shooter.  The reverend and the rabbi I quite liked so guess I could manage a few of the minor characters.

 

How much do I love that someone else shares my love for the reverend and rabbi?! I'd say I wish we could have seen a lot more of them, but this show has a history of making me love characters LESS with increased exposure :) 

 

Of course, the elder Gilmores wouldn't give me a glance since I am not of superior breeding so I can cross them off.  Luke's rants would end up with me slapping him upside the head. Ditto for sullen Jess.  Kirk I would probably go to court to have locked up for a pysch exam.  Taylor I would run over the first time he crossed the street at the 2 minute stoplight on the square.  Lorelai and Rory - just way too cute except in small doses.  Couldn't count on them as friends because they were both so totally self centered.

 

Hee! This is brilliant! You left a few characters out, though. I mean, take the Life and Death Brigade...I'd have been the first to enthusiastically recommend they all carry through with that brilliant 'jump drunkenly off a cliff' idea. And then there's the prospect of being stuck on tour with Hep Alien. I don't know which would drive me insane first---Zach's 'personality' or the band's horrific music. :)  

[BC Mama]

I would watch a spin-off show that revolved around the priest and rabbi!!

[txhorns79]

Lorelai and Rory - just way too cute except in small doses.  Couldn't count on them as friends because they were both so totally self centered.  Except for Rory searching for the elusive hit and run deer, can't think of either of them truly putting themselves out to help anybody, at least for very long or just until that person began cutting into their "me" time.

 

Hee!  Can you imagine?

 

Me: Lorelai, help me, I'm drowning in the lake!

Lorelai: Oh no!  I don't want your mom to show up and Friday the 13th everyone...(twenty minutes of quips later)...I called 911 and they are on the way!  Wait, where are you?  Oh.  (Lorelai turns around and quickly runs away.)

[dustylil]

JaggedLilPill, with respect, my issue with Lane was that she was unwilling to accept the consequences of choosing her own path, particularly once she finished high school. She wanted to live her life according to her own interests and ambitions but still be supported by her parents for whom these interests were deeply offensive because of their religious faith. To them a love of rock and roll wasn't just evidence of dubious and immature taste, it was evidence of moral depravity.  They were concerned about her immortal soul.  It was this lack of respect for them that bothered me. That and the fact that  she didn't own up until she was caught.

 

As to Mrs. Kim's hypocrisy, I don't disagree. But she did come to accept that Lane could make her own decisions regarding career and spouse  just as she apparently did.

 

I guess it was the constant lying on Lane's part - pretty much from the first time we met her - that irritated me. It wasn't as if she had no outlet for her secular tastes. The Kims allowed her to spend a large portion of her leisure time with Lorelai and Rory, hardly models of Kim standards behaviour. And she took part in after  school activities like cheerleading that seemed somewhat at odds with her religious conservative upbringing.

 

BC Mama I would too. For all the mockery the show made of religious beliefs, those two fellows brought both warmth and sanity to their far too few scenes.

[JaggedLilPill]

JaggedLilPill, with respect, my issue with Lane was that she was unwilling to accept the consequences of choosing her own path, particularly once she finished high school. She wanted to live her life according to her own interests and ambitions but still be supported by her parents for whom these interests were deeply offensive because of their religious faith. To them a love of rock and roll wasn't just evidence of dubious and immature taste, it was evidence of moral depravity.  They were concerned about her immortal soul.  It was this lack of respect for them that bothered me. That and the fact that  she didn't own up until she was caught.

 

As to Mrs. Kim's hypocrisy, I don't disagree. But she did come to accept that Lane could make her own decisions regarding career and spouse  just as she apparently did.

 

I guess it was the constant lying on Lane's part - pretty much from the first time we met her - that irritated me. It wasn't as if she had no outlet for her secular tastes. The Kims allowed her to spend a large portion of her leisure time with Lorelai and Rory, hardly models of Kim standards behaviour. And she took part in after  school activities like cheerleading that seemed somewhat at odds with her religious conservative upbringing.

 

And I get that. Lane did lie, but if she had been completely truthful, the outcome would have been the same. Her choices were live at home the way I want you to or move out and live the way you want to on your own. Lane did just that. She got a job and supported herself.

 

I'm not saying Mrs. Kim was an abusive/horrible parent, but she had some pretty strict rules and while she did let Lane hang out with Lorelai and Rory, I'm not sure she knew everything that went on there (movies, eating certain foods Lane was forbidden from eating). It's really my own personal issues with parents forcing their religious beliefs on their children. Luckily Mrs. Kim did end up coming around, but that's a hard choice to make for a kid. Be completely cut off (not even financially speaking but emotionally) or live the way you absolutely don't want to. For me personally, I felt Lane was stuck between a rock and a hard place, at least until the fourth season.

 

I just found it hypocritical coming from a woman who - even as an adult - hid her religious beliefs from her mom. So, maybe as far as the Kims were concerned, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I'm sure Grandma Kim probably felt the same way about Mrs. Kim's beliefs, that they were a danger to her soul. 

[BC Mama]

Here's another one: I freaking loved Trix. Yes, she was awful---and, like many GG characters, exaggeratedly so. But i found her amusing, and I loved getting to see someone out-Emily Emily---it was not only entertaining, but made Emily more vulnerable and root-worthy for me. 

 

Me too! My only regret is that Trix and Paris never met.

[scarynikki12]

When I watched the first season of the show I was convinced that there would be a later reveal that Mrs. Kim knew perfectly well that Lane was hiding music, makeup and clothes around her room and watching inappropriate movies and eating non-Kim approved foods when with the Gilmores but pretended otherwise because all the hiding was evidence of Lane's guilt, proof that she did take her parents' beliefs to heart, or maybe even that Mrs. Kim knew when to pick her battles.  Lane still dated the boys Mrs. Kim wanted her to, complete with their entire families, and didn't seem to voice her displeasure to anyone other than Rory and Lorelai.  She stayed away from drugs and alcohol and didn't sneak out of the house to go to wild parties.  She did her homework, wasn't shown trying to get out of church, and was involved in town activities.  She was a pretty great kid overall and I was so sure that we would learn that Mrs. Kim understood that and her reward was letting her believe that she wasn't aware of the bedroom cache or movie and food habits with the Gilmores.  Mrs. Kim showed no objection to Lane accompanying Rory to Madeline's party following the Dean breakup (which also tells me that, despite her stance on boys and dating, she understood that Rory needed a friend that night) and seemed perfectly fine with Lane's lie about going to grab food or a movie during Double Date so I wonder if this idea was batted around in the writers room at times. 

[txhorns79]

When I watched the first season of the show I was convinced that there would be a later reveal that Mrs. Kim knew perfectly well that Lane was hiding music, makeup and clothes around her room

 

Not to mention that all Mrs. Kim would have had to do was to open up the door of Lane's closet to see a whole mess of "forbidden" objects! 

 

 

She wanted to live her life according to her own interests and ambitions but still be supported by her parents for whom these interests were deeply offensive because of their religious faith. To them a love of rock and roll wasn't just evidence of dubious and immature taste, it was evidence of moral depravity.  They were concerned about her immortal soul.  It was this lack of respect for them that bothered me.

 

 

I think you can look at countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan to see the end game of giving that kind of power to someone's religious beliefs.  I look at it this way, Lane was an overall pretty good kid who had a very mild teenage rebellion.  When Mrs. Kim confronted Lane over her lying, all she succeeded in doing was driving her daughter away.  I can agree Lane was wrong to lie to her mother, and very wrong for sneaking out of her house, as waking up to your kid's empty bed would send any parent into a panic.  However, that does not make Lane a "deceitful and ungrateful wretch," as she was called.        

 

 

It wasn't as if she had no outlet for her secular tastes. The Kims allowed her to spend a large portion of her leisure time with Lorelai and Rory, hardly models of Kim standards behaviour. And she took part in after  school activities like cheerleading that seemed somewhat at odds with her religious conservative upbringing.

 

As I think was mentioned last time this was brought up, you can't simply farm out your kid to other people to have them meet your kid's needs, while you simply pretend those needs don't exist.  As a parent, you need to meet your kid's needs yourself (or at least acknowledge them and go from there), or you basically end up in a situation like Mrs. Kim, where your kid is leading a double life because they are too scared to let you know what is going on.     

 

 

Me too! My only regret is that Trix and Paris never met.

 

I can imagine an episode of them giving each other a side eye, until one of them makes a false move, and the other pounces. 

Edited November 22, 2014 by txhorns79

[amensisterfriend]

you can't simply farm out your kid to other people to have them meet your kid's needs, while you simply pretend those needs don't exist.

 

Unless you're Liz! (Sorry, I couldn't resist ::) 

 

I now kind of want to write a fanfic in which the reverend and rabbi attempt to offer everyone  counseling and then just merrily concede that most of these people are way too far gone to help. 

 

My only regret is that Trix and Paris never met.

 

I can imagine an episode of them giving each other a side eye, until one of them makes a false move, and the other pounces.

 

Hee---now I'm dying to write a fanfic about THIS as well :) 

[dustylil]

scarynikki12, I too thought that Mrs. Kim might have long been aware of the contraband and had chosen to ignore it when I first watched those episodes from  the early seasons. Perhaps deciding to choose her battles with her daughter was my thinking. But by the fourth season that did not seem to be the case.

 

I guess what it amounts to is  that I would not have found a scene of an Orthodox Jewish teenage girl feasting on a BLT in her parents' kitchen entertaining or perfectly reasonable. So I didn't find Lane's comparable disrespect for her parent's religious beliefs in their own home similarly acceptable. And I write this as contented agnostic.

 

And as this is the thread for expressing what are sometimes unpopular opinions, I believe I am entitled to describe characters as I see them. As is anyone else.

 

I too liked Trix. Even if she did dress oddly for a woman born in the United States in the twentieth century! Particularly her decision to not interfere with her son's choice of marriage partner (well, except to toy with her)  once she had made her views known. It's a pity Richard and Emily couldn't extend the same courtesy to their daughter's romantic choices.

[txhorns79]

Indeed, we all are entitled to our opinions, just like we are all entitled to disagree with one another's opinions.  After all, Previously TV, like TWOP before it, isn't meant as an echo chamber.  One thing that continues to bring me back to these threads is the variety of opinions.  It's always interesting to see how each commenter views a particular scene or plot point, and to see what people like about a character or episode or to see what they don't like.     

 

And finally, just be glad Gilmore Girls isn't Scandal or Parenthood.  Those commenters have strong opinions and are ruthless! 
 

 

Particularly her decision to not interfere with her son's choice of marriage partner (well, except to toy with her)  once she had made her views known. It's a pity Richard and Emily couldn't extend the same courtesy to their daughter's romantic choices.

 

She tried to break up their wedding.  Heck, she even saved a copy of the note for posterity.  I'm not saying Emily and Richard shouldn't have learned a lesson from all that in their treatment of Lorelai and Luke, but given Trix's obvious and continued hostility to Emily, I'm not quite sure it could be said she didn't continue to interfere in their marriage.  Yeah, she didn't dramatically threaten to cut Richard off forever in an attempt to end the marriage, but so what?  It's that's the standard, then there is no standard.         
 

 

Unless you're Liz! (Sorry, I couldn't resist ::)

 

That's so true!  She very much was of the "not my problem" school of parenting. 

Edited November 23, 2014 by txhorns79

[Guest]

I never really thought of Lane as entitled until she came home and started trying to lay down the law. Once Mrs. Kim had found all of her stuff, she could have approached it as "Mom, if I'm going to live here, we should discuss XYZ." Instead she was just like "Mom, I'm going to live by my rules in your house rent free.  Hope you don't mind."  It was bratty.  

 

Once she was 18, if she didn't want to live by her mom's rules or go to her mom's school choice, she had options. 

[txhorns79]

Once Mrs. Kim had found all of her stuff, she could have approached it as "Mom, if I'm going to live here, we should discuss XYZ." Instead she was just like "Mom, I'm going to live by my rules in your house rent free.  Hope you don't mind."  It was bratty.

 

This I entirely agree with.  Lane didn't get to dictate the rules to her mother in her own home.  Though I will say I'm not a big fan of the "if you don't like my rules, you can move out..." school of thought.  For some people it's a realistic option, for others, it is not.  I realize there are circumstances where that kind of ultimatum has to be used, I just don't know if it is always the best measure of someone's character.

[Hybridcookie]

I'm rewatching Season 6 for the first time... and I don't actually dislike as much as I thought I did. And I really like Logan, I don't remember liking him that much. Just got up to Friday Night's Alright for Fighting and I love Rory and Logan trying to get the issue of the paper out, especially Logan's stalling phone call to the printers

[solotrek]

Not to mention that all Mrs. Kim would have had to do was to open up the door of Lane's closet to see a whole mess of "forbidden" objects!

 

I find it unbelievable that Mrs. Kim would never open the closet door. Lane wasn't even hiding anything in the closet, it was just there.

 

ETA: Though I suppose this is more a nitpick than an unpopular opinion.

Edited November 27, 2014 by maculae

[dustylil]

Perhaps there was a family rule that one did not go into another's room (and rifle through another's things) uninvited. That way Mrs. Kim never saw Lane's damned-to-perdition contraband. And Lane never viewed her mother's extensive Victoria Secret's wardrobe.

[Taryn74]

And Lane never viewed her mother's extensive Victoria Secret's wardrobe.

 

 

OMG.  We need a 'Like x 1000' button.

[GreenScreenFX]

First of all, I was a TWoP person when it was called Mighty Big TV, so I am not randomly stumbling on to this site. I was a huge Buffy and Angel fan and commenter but I never watched The Gilmore Girls until this year on Netflix. I caught a few episodes as they aired, but it wasn't a weekly appointment. My question though, is why is the last season so hated? I understand the Palladino's left ( not sure of the circumstances) but the only season I hated was season 4. I'm not even sure that's correct. Whatever season Rory quit Yale and lived with the grandparents.

anyway, I thought this might go in the unpopular opinions section, because I liked season 7.

Also, hated Dean, Jesse, Max, and Christoper.

[JayInChicago]

Season 6 was the quit Yale and live with grandparents year. (it actually only lasted 8-9 episodes, though part of those account for the summer break so they did last for some months)

Season 7 was just kind of a different show in my opinion. Towards the end I start to like it again, but it was shot kind of differently and lost focus without the Palladinos. It looked cheaper too somehow. Lorelai and Christopher marrying in Paris is a bit absurd. 

[GreenScreenFX]

Wow... Ok, as I said I watched the entire series on Netflix, so the season boundaries are kind of muddled. I was way off about season 4. Anyway, I agree the show lost focus in the last season. It was pretty dull and I was just powering through episodes at that point. I thought it was just me. I really should read an episode guide before I post again.

[truebluesmoky]

Speaking of Friday Night's Alright For Fighting, that is an awesome episode. I agree with the popular opinion that Season 6 is generally terrible but would argue the possibly unpopular opinion that that episode, despite being part of Season 6, is one of the best of the series. That Friday Night Dinner is epic!

[Kohola3]

Wow... Ok, as I said I watched the entire series on Netflix, so the season boundaries are kind of muddled.

 

Yours is an interesting perspective since it sounds like you've been doing a marathon-ty[e viewing of all of the episodes.  Most of us watched week by week, watching things slowly develop,  When Season 6 started going downhill followed by the well publicized impending departure of the Palladino team, I think we all had some trepidation.  

 

And that fear was well confirmed when the tedious and ludicrous Season 7 rolled around. It was pretty torturous for the L&L shippers and those of us on that team had to suffer through the tedium until the last 5 minutes of the last episode to get any closure.

 

Perhaps that week-to-week slow build up put a different spin on things and we may have a whole new view if we were viewing one episode after another.  Good psychology experiment!

[junienmomo]

Greenscreen, here's a link to my favorite episode guide. Connects you to transcripts as well.

http://www.crazy-internet-people.com/site/gilmoregirls/pages/s1/s1epg.html#1

[JayInChicago]

Greenscreen, btw I didn't mean to 'correct' you in a snotty way. I just was adding my 2 cents. :)

 

This show is such that imo it is worse when marathoning. The cracks really show that way, so as I've been rewatching yet again i'm taking it slow. 

 

Since it was plot and time based, what I tend to find annoying is each summer hiatus they had to find reasons for there to be both high drama at the end of a season, yet situations where each character's life would be on hold.  thus we get rory going to europe for weeks with emily, jess temporarily moving back to new york, luke stuck in Maine with no roads between Maine and Conneticut, etc.  

[Nanrad]

So, I've watched the show in bits and pieces years ago, but never the whole thing through--I've seen episodes from every season, but maybe not every episode. I'm on season one in my re-watch and, I don't know if this is unpopular or not, but I find myself really disliking Rory. I understand that Lorelai could cross the line at times, but some of Rory's behavior could be very snotty and stuck up. Because she really does border to between dull and self centered. Lorelei has her moments too, but less so than Rory (for my personal preference).

 

And pertaining to the Christopher conversation--deadbeat father or not--he always came across as a deadbeat to me. IMO, it doesn't matter how much Lorelai wanted to raise Rory herself or if he was supposedly "respecting" her decision and falling back, Rory still needed his presence in her life. Lorelai couldn't have kept him away if he really wanted to be involved--she was living in a pot shed!!! He could've easily taken her to court or threatened to in order to see Rory. Or, he could've called and visited her more. Chris could've done many things and, since he didn't, he's a deadbeat in my eyes. Even when he became more involved in her life, he wasn't all that involved or focused on her, imo. As someone else said, he seemed more focused on Lorelai. Also, I don't think him wanting to marry Lorelai as teens because she got pregnant counts as him wanting to take responsibility. A person who wants to take responsibility steps up regardless of marital status--Chris let a no steer him away from being a parent. 

 

As far as L/C goes, I think they only worked in small does regarding dating. I agree, they had phenomenal chemistry, but I did prefer Lorelai with Luke. I think despite appearing as opposites, L/L weren't all that opposite just like despite appearing well matched, L/C wouldn't have lasted long. They were both chasing fantasies and I know some see this as a fantasy fulfilled show (lol), but I really don't see them working even if they had better timing. 

 

I can't recall how grumpy Luke got in the later seasons, but even despite his rants, Luke was a well meaning person. In a few of his rants, you could tell that he cared for a cause or person or whatever. Like his coffee rants or telling Rory she didn't want to end up like her mother. Even when he said it, it wasn't in a malicious way and when she proclaimed that she did, he smiled. Or when he noticed that Lorelai or Rory was in a particularly bad mood, he didn't rant, but just served them coffee or pie. (again, all first season). So, I could see how someone would put up with a person like that. Luke ranted about the soldiers not even going to battle for the civil war, but he was adamant about serving them coffee and offered to take orders for other hot drinks due to the chilliness and snow, despite how he felt about the re-enactment.

 

Can someone explain this to me though: why did Lorelai still want to be with Christopher? Was the only thing that drove them apart was her being pregnant? She'd always showed longing and interested in re-kindling that relationship, but now that I think about it, it seems odd to me.

[scarynikki12]

I think that Lorelai holding onto the idea of being with Christopher was threefold: they didn't have a formal breakup when she got pregnant (my interpretation as the show never explicitly told us how their teenage relationship ended) and therefore had no closure, she was conventional enough to believe that her parents were right and that the parents of a child needed to be married, and the biggest being that her parents had more influence on her than even she realized.  Would Lorelai have held onto this fantasy throughout Rory's entire life had Emily and Richard not spent most (if not all) of the time they spent together berating her for not marrying Chris when they told her to?  I don't think so.  I think she still would have felt that loss of closure and that Rory deserved parents who were married but would have also outgrown those views if she'd been allowed to live her life without being constantly reminded of the shame she'd brought upon the Gilmore name.  I think that, had Lorelai not been reminded over and over for 22 years that she should have married Chris when she got pregnant, she would have been able to see Chris as an old friend who happened to be her daughter's father rather than a walking reminder of the disappointment that she'd caused her parents. 

[junienmomo]

Lorelai's mother's influence on her should not be ignored when it comes to the Chris/Lorelai relationship. If Emily had not been such a bossy parent, Lorelai would never have run away. As an adult, Lorelai had enough respect for the concept of her parents to allow Rory to get to know them via holiday visits.

Persuasive parenting instead of too-authoritative parenting might have completely changed Lorelai's world.

She did buy into the idea of being a family with Chris and held onto it for a very long time, just like her mother did.

[readster]

 The problem I always had with Christopher besides his popping up when he felt like it was the fact that everyone enabled his behavior. His parents, especially Stobe: "He would have been great if Lorelai would never had gotten pregnant" speech was so so tiresome. I even remember Richard and Emily saying early on they wanted Chris to die because he got her pregnant and then did it again years later when Georgia was produced. Yet constantly, they gave him the chance, pushed him on Lorelai because "He has great genes and comes from a highly respective family." He was a moron and his grandfather leaving him the family fortune just because he was the only grandchild. Which irked me to no end how Lorelai and Chris were only children because their parents put them off on nannies left and right and talked about the family line could die with them. Well, you had the means and abilities to have more than one child. Yet, they always treated their kids as an inconvenience because of earaches or the fact they made dumb decisions as teens. Well, here was a wake up call for all them: "Kids do that!" 

[JayInChicago]

I think Lorelai held on the possibility of Chris because...well, in addition to the great reasons people have listed, they both were a little maturity-challenged at times (especially Christopher), and they could be 16 forever to each other.  

Also, frankly, they are shown to have chemistry and attraction to each other in spades, so ... I dunno, there are worse reasons to hold onto an idea of someone as a potential romance.

[GreenScreenFX]

Thank you for the link Junienmomo! As I said, I am fairly new to this show (in a way) I watched most of the highschool years in real time, but I moved cities, got a "real" job, and I think my life just got in the way of the show after that. It has been such a treat to watch the second half of the show ----albeit in a speed round. Though I started from the beginning again... I watched season 6 and 7 over the Thanksgiving break. Before you question this, I had 9 days off and my family is out of state. I had a lot of "me" time.

I watched all of the really annoying story lines in a matter of days not years. I never was all that annoyed by stupid plot holes, because they were fixed in hours not months.

On to the show, I do think there is something to be said for L's constant affection for C. He was her first love and the father of her child. She will always have those nostalgic feelings. I remember my first love always, but I couldn't name 2-4 if my life depended on it.

Anyway, thank you for listening.

[GreenScreenFX]

And jay, I did not read that as snotty AT ALL. Thank you for the correction!

[readster]

 

Coming out of lurkerdome to say I also don't think Lane did anything that terrible. If anything, I'm more offended that Mrs. Kim didn't even give Lane options of where she wanted to go to college and forced the school she ended up attending on her. Considering we find out during Lane and Zach’s wedding that Mrs. Kim’s mom is Buddhist and Mrs. Kim has been hiding the fact that she’s a Seventh Day Adventist from her, I’d say Mrs. Kim comes off as a hypocrite. It’s okay for her to choose another religion, but it’s not okay for Lane to decide her own path? Okay then.

 

 

 I hated that. Watching Gilmore Girls was something I enjoyed watching each with with my mom and when that happened. I will tell you that my lovable mother said words I never thought she would ever say. Including: "I would smacked MamaKim upside the head and then told her mom that she had gone Christian on her and raised her only grandchild the same way." As many people have said about how they would have never tolerated most of the people in Stars Hollow. I have to agree, if people like Mrs. Kim ever did the way she treated everyone when they came into her store. She would have been out of business. Not to mention Kirk would have been eventually blackballed by the number of jobs he had and then quit or fired from. 

 

 Speaking of Kirk, despite all the stupid stuff he did, him being the lead in the children's elementary school of Fiddler on the Roof was beyond ridiculous. He was the only adult in the entire play and considering what they showed of the play. There wasn't a change in the script, it came off very creepy to be telling a 10 year old about how much he loved her when she was playing his wife and not one of the daughters. It came off really, really wrong. Plus, you add in him needing to ask permission to use the bathroom? I'm also not even go into how Kirk was a real estate agent for one episode. Not to mention that Kirk had night terrors that he strips completely naked and goes run out scream? Too much.

[Kohola3]

Sean Gunn can't complain about being typecast - he played 40 different characters including a couple where with different names during the GG run. I had to wonder if they just couldn't afford additional actors so they when they felt the need for an additional "quirky" character to add to the menagerie, they inserted his name in the slot.

 

I agree about the Fiddler bit, that was just creepy.

[readster]

Sean Gunn can't complain about being typecast - he played 40 different characters including a couple where with different names during the GG run. I had to wonder if they just couldn't afford additional actors so they when they felt the need for an additional "quirky" character to add to the menagerie, they inserted his name in the slot.

 

I agree about the Fiddler bit, that was just creepy.

I do remember Amy P. in an interview said she grew up with a guy in town who had over 15 jobs in a three year span. From being a lifeguard to being a shoe salesman and Kirk was based on that guy but she said it was just more extreme. Its not that a person can't go from working simple job like selling tickets at a movie theatre and being the announcer for a high school game. Its just hard getting jobs that require a lot of testing and training like Mailman, Real Estate and one episode where he was an exterminator when Lorelai had termites. These aren't jobs you can just get over night and Kirk would have been needing the time to take these tests and the way in the first 3 seasons how he explained his living arrangements with his mother. I don't see how Kirk could have managed that. But then again, Taylor as town selectman could make all these huge town decisions and constantly said that Stars Hollow had a mayor. Yet, Ms. Patti and Gypsy said the town would fall apart without Taylor and that only Kirk was the right successor that even Taylor admitted to. Really paints Stars Hollow as a place I would not want to live in or visit. 

[Tangerine]

 I hated that. Watching Gilmore Girls was something I enjoyed watching each with with my mom and when that happened. I will tell you that my lovable mother said words I never thought she would ever say. Including: "I would smacked MamaKim upside the head and then told her mom that she had gone Christian on her and raised her only grandchild the same way." As many people have said about how they would have never tolerated most of the people in Stars Hollow. I have to agree, if people like Mrs. Kim ever did the way she treated everyone when they came into her store. She would have been out of business. Not to mention Kirk would have been eventually blackballed by the number of jobs he had and then quit or fired from.

 

I related to a lot of the Mrs. Kim/Lane interactions, but most of it bothered me because I grew up in a very traditional Asian Christian household and a lot of what was portrayed was waaayyyyy over the top and stereotypical. Which, I get it, it's television but come on. Lane was a nice refreshing character on TV since she was an Asian-American that bucked stereotype, but then her family life was VERY stereotypical, which kind of undid how progressive Lane's character was.

[readster]

I related to a lot of the Mrs. Kim/Lane interactions, but most of it bothered me because I grew up in a very traditional Asian Christian household and a lot of what was portrayed was waaayyyyy over the top and stereotypical. Which, I get it, it's television but come on. Lane was a nice refreshing character on TV since she was an Asian-American that bucked stereotype, but then her family life was VERY stereotypical, which kind of undid how progressive Lane's character was.

 

I so agree not to mention where was Mr. Kim? Never explained and it was like people tolerated Mrs. Kim because if they didn't, they acted like she would sneak into their house and kill them. I also was very mixed with Lane's story by the end of the series. I can take getting married and having kids young. But considering how much Lane's first and apparently only sexual experience with her husband lead to 5 minutes of pain, sand in areas they were cleaning out the next day and getting pregnaunt like that with twins of all things. Followed by Lane saying: "That's what you get for making whopie, folks!" It made it spelled the message: "Sex is bad kids! Don't do it!"

[Ms Blue Jay]

I have just watched all 7 seasons, for the first time, in order, very quickly, so now you can see my point of view, in that it happened without any outside media/opinions.  I just watched it myself without discussing it with anyone.  

 

For me Season 4 is brutal.  It's torture.  It's dreadful.

 

I skipped full episodes in Season 4.  I could barely get through some episodes, and I'd stop them and start something else.  I'd read episode descriptions before I'd even delve in for fear it would be awful.

 

My bias is that I really, really, really liked Jess and Rory with Jess, and I knew that Matt Czuchry would make his appearance in Season 5 (I watch The Good Wife).  So, yes, it's partly my fault in that I approached Season 4 as the meat in a kind of Jess and and Logan sandwich (I didn't even end up caring for Logan but at least the arc was interesting).  Season 4 was just a bunch of crap I really couldn't even bring myself to care about.  It was post-Chilton, Rory starts Yale, and I don't even know if anything is even going ON with Lorelai.  It's just so boring.

 

After being so high on this show after devouring the first three seasons -- I especially remembering loving those first two -- Season 4 was such a low.  It's a wonder I even marched on.

 

My defence for liking all of the other seasons, no matter how crazy I can admit objectively to seeing them as?  (April Appears Suddenly, Lorelai Marries Chris, Rory Becomes an Asshole and/or Logan Crazy, etc. etc. etc.)?  At least they're interesting!!!!

Edited December 19, 2014 by Ms Blue Jay

[GreenScreenFX]

My thoughts on Jess, a newbie (sort of) after having just watched the entire series on Netflix as well. He is the biggest turd to turd. He is awful. A real shithead to the 9th degree. I don't understand the Jess love AT ALL.

[junienmomo]

Blue Jay and Greenscreen,

Jess is a big reason why season 4 is not loved by everyone, especially Jess fans. He has gone, but only comes back to be unbelievably cruel and rather pathetic in his pursuit of Rory. I would have liked to see the mature Jess come back a little stronger as competition for Logan. Would have made Rory's arc more interesting.

Beyond that, season 4 is choppy and everyone is so sad or pathetic at one point or another. There was little flow between episodes, like S1 and S2.

At least season 4 wasn't the soap opera that S5 was.

[Aloeonatable]

 

My thoughts on Jess, a newbie (sort of) after having just watched the entire series on Netflix as well. He is the biggest turd to turd. He is awful. A real shithead to the 9th degree. I don't understand the Jess love AT ALL.

 

Well, as a Jess lover, I do understand that many would not like him, even hate him. I used to visit TWoP when Gilmore Girls was airing and some posters might as well have called him the anti-Christ. I don't think I could have tolerated high school Jess in real life, but I found him to be a very compelling character who brought a lot to the show and the other characters. His relationship with Luke was my favorite of the show, even more than the Rory/Lorelai or the Emily/Lorelai relationships. I'm too old to have a crush on MV, so that "but he's so cute that I don't care if he is a punk" never influenced my feelings for the character. I guess I just understood him.

[truebluesmoky]

 

I'm too old to have a crush on MV, so that "but he's so cute that I don't care if he is a punk" never influenced my feelings for the character. I guess I just understood him.

 

I understood him as well, and I think I like him because I understood who he'd become. Even before he came back as more confident, kind, and successful in the later seasons, that's the person I could see in him. Even though they retconned his mom into a lovable, zany recurring character later on, when Jess was introduced to us, he was a teenager who had been neglected and then sent away. He had some horrible moments with the way he treated adults in particular and even Rory, but I saw his potential as a true match for Rory. I also find him easily superior to her other two boyfriends during the series, although that is an extremely low bar. Dean is the worst. I don't know who I hate more - emotionally abusive Dean from when he and Rory were first together or complete dickhead Dean who cheated on his wife then came home and yelled at her. Logan has decent moments, but I never stop disliking his smarmy grin. I also have trouble relating to his poor little rich boy act. His family is terrible, yes, but the whole thing about his life ending because his dad was pushing him into the family business? He didn't have to go through with any of that. He could have said no and decided to go it alone. He would have lost his family's financial support but not his Yale education or political connections based on being a Huntzberger.

[junienmomo]

He didn't have to go through with any of that. He could have said no and decided to go it alone.

Logan did go it alone in principle. He did his own thing with the job his father gave him, took a big risk on his own and lost it all, including his trust fund. His father then tried to put the financial screws on, so Logan quit. Then he went completely out on his own, getting a job (the connections were surely still in play), but working his way through his issues.

 

Think Lorelai - a very similar story. She supposedly knew from "6 months" that she didn't want the life of the Gilmores, but she was rebelliously still following her own path within the Gilmore world. It was only when she turned up pregnant and they really put the screws on her in terms of behavior that she ran away and really found her own way. 

 

OK, maybe similar is an understatement. I imagine his similarity to Lorelai's experience made it easier for Rory to keep loving him in spite of his issues. Rory didn't share that with Jess, I think she really didn't understand Jess. 

[Tangerine]

Logan did go it alone in principle. He did his own thing with the job his father gave him, took a big risk on his own and lost it all, including his trust fund. His father then tried to put the financial screws on, so Logan quit. Then he went completely out on his own, getting a job (the connections were surely still in play), but working his way through his issues.

 

Think Lorelai - a very similar story. She supposedly knew from "6 months" that she didn't want the life of the Gilmores, but she was rebelliously still following her own path within the Gilmore world. It was only when she turned up pregnant and they really put the screws on her in terms of behavior that she ran away and really found her own way. 

 

OK, maybe similar is an understatement. I imagine his similarity to Lorelai's experience made it easier for Rory to keep loving him in spite of his issues. Rory didn't share that with Jess, I think she really didn't understand Jess. 

 

I think this is a good parallel. I mentioned in another thread, but for as rebellious as young Lorelai was, she still more or less did everything that was expected of her. She did the debutante balls, she was on track to go to an Ivy League school, and she was in a committed relationship with a boy that her parents adored. She really only started to do her own thing after she had Rory and realized that it was now or never.

 

Logan was under the impression that his life would be over once he started working for father so he got his rebellion in early and then accepted his fate. His father seemed to be of similar thought and thus tolerated his poor behaviour and thus Logan never got any much needed discipline. He didn't strike me as Poor Little Rich Boy really because he wasn't mired in "Woe is me" all the time. I think he knew what his situation was going to be, but I think he had a good understanding of how privileged he was and tried to make the best of it in his own, immature way.

 

On paper, I don't think I would have liked Logan at all but Matt Czuchry really had a way of making him very likable to me.

 

Jess was a very compelling character on his own, but seriously the worst possible boyfriend ever. Instead of Jess bailing on Rory, I would have liked for Rory to realize how unhealthy her relationship with him was and decide that it was time to end things until he grew the heck up.

Edited December 19, 2014 by Tangerine

[Aloeonatable]

 

He didn't strike me as Poor Little Rich Boy really because he wasn't mired in "Woe is me" all the time. I think he knew what his situation was going to be, but I think he had a good understanding of how privileged he was and tried to make the best of it in his own, immature way.

 

I thought the excessive drinking, partying and daring escapades were a form of "woe is me." Sort of escapism, masking his misery with alcohol. Definitely immature. 

 

 

Jess was a very compelling character on his own, but seriously the worst possible boyfriend ever. Instead of Jess bailing on Rory, I would have liked for Rory to realize how unhealthy her relationship with him was and decide that it was time to end things until he grew the heck up.

 

High school Jess was a horrible boyfriend. I don't excuse his behavior at all. I didn't care all that much if he and Rory had a great relationship, if fact I'm glad the way their story played out. I don't think I would have liked it if young Jess changed because of Rory and became an ideal boyfriend. I liked that he grew up off screen, and became successful. 

[amensisterfriend]

I like S4, but I definitely share the unpopular opinion that it's not nearly as awesome as GG's S2 and S3, at least for me. The majority of my fellow GG junkies name S4 as their very favorite season, but for me it's a very distant third---and maybe even fourth, behind S1. It's not even so much about missing Jess's interactions with Rory and Luke for me, though that may play a part of it. It's that the whole tone of S4 somehow just feels flatter and more lifeless than the sparkly, effervescent, infectiously life-affirming S2-S3 for me.

 

Other strikes against S4 in my (admittedly unpopular!) view: I actually think Rory starts to lose a little of what I loved about the character in THIS season, not just in S5. I hate, hate, HATE the addition of Liz and TJ. Did I mention hate?! ;) This is the season where Sookie starts to majorly grate on me and becomes really shrill and selfish. Luke marrying, (almost) divorcing and then resuming a dating relationship with Nicole is beyond ridiculous to me, and bugs me a lot more than any of the Nicole stuff we see in S3. As much as I like Digger, I hate with a passion the way they wrote him off. There's more of Zach in this season, which...ugh. I can't stand the guy until maybe S7. And I can't enjoy the Luke/Lorelai build up now that I know how disappointing I found them as a romantic couple. Oh, and then there's the highly unwelcome (for me) return of Dean and the buildup to their affair. 

 

As for the Jess/Rory debate, they're so polarizing that I'm pretty sure adoring them, hating them AND falling somewhere in between are all equally popular :) For me, it comes down to that highly subjective, indefinable chemistry. Not even necessarily sexual/romantic 'sparks', but just the sense that these two people connect on all levels, get each other, belong together, etc. I try hard to see that type of chemistry between Luke and Lorelai after they start dating, but almost never can. I try NOT to see it between Lorelai and Chris, but can't help seeing it anyway. I can totally see why some see it between Rory and Logan, but I don't. And I see it in spades between Rory and Jess, even when I haven't especially wanted to ;) 

 

As always, it's so fun reading everyone's views! 

Edited December 20, 2014 by amensisterfriend

[blackCatCollins]

my unpopular opinion? i didn't hate season 7. Luke and Lorelei aren't the be all end all for me that they are for some people, so season 7 goes middle of the road. i prefer it to the even numbered seasons. plus, it has one of my all time favorite episodes- Santa's Secret Stuff.

Edited December 20, 2014 by blackCatCollins