Season 6: Info, Casting and Spoilers

[Lady S.]

I'd already been wondering if they were going to have Sansa mirror Catelyn at the Whispering Wood, it'd be a great callback opportunity even if it doesn't make the most sense.

[Advance35]

Well the cast of characters present at this "Battle" is interesting.   Surprised about the Sansa spoiler though it does add more fuel to the fire I've had in terms of speculating an ugly fate is waiting for her this season.

 

Very interested in seeing how the season builds up to all of this.  Umbers, Karstarks, Wildings. Boltons.   If anyone had told me during Seasons 1-4 that for seasons 5 & 6 I would find the North to be the most interesting location, I would have thought they were nuts.   Can't wait.

[Winnief]

If anyone had told me during Seasons 1-4 that for seasons 5 & 6 I would find the North to be the most interesting location, I would have thought they were nuts.   Can't wait.

 

I know!  In the meantime, KL for me is now just "meh."  Quite a turn around.  But since Hard Home, nothing happening in the South seems very consequential much anymore.

Well the cast of characters present at this "Battle" is interesting.   Surprised about the Sansa spoiler though it does add more fuel to the fire I've had in terms of speculating an ugly fate is waiting for her this season.

 

I think last season was supposed to be Sansa's lowest point, (and we already saw Theon hit rock bottom,) and now she'll be on the rise.  I have my own theories as to why D&D might be keeping her close to Jon but we will see.  

 

I am curious as to how Asha/Theon re-unite.  It makes sense he and Sansa would split up, (or that she might just ditch him,) but I don't see how Theon could make his way back to the Iron islands...he has no resources.  Seems unlikely Asha would go back to the North, though if she did she could easily end up on one of Ramsay's crosses. 

[Chris24601]

I think last season was supposed to be Sansa's lowest point, (and we already saw Theon hit rock bottom,) and now she'll be on the rise. I have my own theories as to why D&D might be keeping her close to Jon but we will see.

Going by the similar hopes and dreams expressed in the books, my theory is they need Jon Targaryan and Sansa in proximity to build a believable and satisfying ending romance. The narrative has been pretty harsh on marriage for love vs. duty, but that doesn't mean you can't set up something that's closer to both.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Chris24601

[nksarmi]

Well Sansa could insist on going and Jon couldn't bear to be away from her.  OR she could be there TO turn the Northern Lords against Ramsey.  I mean if Rickon is with the Umbers and this isn't a double cross (which would be my first guess and hope) - then it could be that they hear of Jon leading a Wildling army on Winterfell and respond to Bolton calling for help.  Sansa argues against it and when they leave her behind, she sneaks out and finds Jon and goes with him to battle (much easier in a wildling army where there will probably be women ready for battle). Then at the pivotal moment, she turns the Northern Lords away from Ramsey and toward Jon.

 

Also, is it impossible to believe that Ramsey has gone full bat shit crazy villain and it's his dad and step mom on the crosses?  Leaving him to claim rule of the North?

Edited October 29, 2015 by nksarmi

[Chris24601]

Also, is it impossible to believe that Ramsey has gone full bat shit crazy villain and it's his dad and step mom on the crosses? Leaving him to claim rule of the North?

Actually, that's BRILLIANT and totally explains why its apparently being called the 'Battle of the Bastards' in universe (not just what the production crew is calling it).

If Roose were still alive then its HIS army against the bastard Jon Snow. Only with Roose dead would Ramsey be the true leader of his forces and I could totally see Ramsey killing and flaying Roose and Walda if he got the inkling (true or not) that he was going to be set aside as heir for Walda's unborn child.

That would nicely resolve the bit about two known characters being flayed/crucified without resorting to more dead Starks. It also cleans house in the North in time for Dany to arrive to the south (and I don't think she'll be any sort of ally to Jon at first) and the Walkers to descend from the north.

As to Sansa's presence, my guess is she won't be in the battle proper, but that there will likely be a series of 'camp' sequences leading up to the battle proper and that's where we'll see Sansa.

Similarly, while there may not be any Walkers proper in Snowbowl, that doesn't mean that a huge impetus for the battle isn't that the Walkers' are on the march and they need to get as many people as possible into the safety of Winterfell before they arrive. Perhaps Sansa's role is not with the battle proper, but with managing/leading the common folk who need shelter from the coming winter (and who are gathering in proximity to the only army that's going help them... Ironically Jon's Wildlings).

[SeanC]

Sophie was only in Ireland during the Saintfield filming for about four days, I believe, so her part during the actual field sequences isn't likely to be that big.

[WearyTraveler]

Also, is it impossible to believe that Ramsey has gone full bat shit crazy villain and it's his dad and step mom on the crosses?  Leaving him to claim rule of the North?

 

That sounds plausible.  I like that idea!

-------------------

Regarding Sansa's role, I'm leaning toward Lady S. theory that Sansa will have a role like Cat had.

[nksarmi]

There is some comedy gold to be made out of what will probably happen in the Battle of the Bastards.

 

Ramsey: "Northern Lords rally to me - wildlings have slaughtered the Night's Watch and are invading."

Umbers and Karstarks: "Ok, here we come."

Davos: "No you have to side with Jon."

Umbers and Kastarks: "Ned's bastard?"

Davos: "Well, Ned raised him."

Umbers and Kastarks: "Ok Southern boy, what does that mean?"

Davos: "Apparently, Lyanna really loved Rheagor and he's a Targ"

Mel: "Not just a Targ, THE Targ, the chosen Targ, the Targ of Targs"

All: "Shut up witch"

Ramsey: "When do I get to flay people? And I want Sansa back"

Jon: "You can't have her. You tortured her. I will kill you."

Umbers and Kastarks: "Wait what?"

Ramsey: "He's lying."

Sansa: "No he isn't. I hate you. I want you to die. And I claim Winterfell in my father's name."

Umbers and Kastarks: "Um..."

Ramsey: "The witch enchanted her and he's a wildling turncoat bastard."

All: "You're a bastard."

Mel: "He's the Prince that was Promised and best chance to save the realm."

Umbers and Kastarks: "From what?"

Jon: "Winter is coming and the dead walk."

Umbers and Kastarks: "Awe bloody hell."

Wildlings: "So do we get to fight or what?"

Umbers and Kastarks: "Nah, just kill the crazy kid who likes to flay people and let's go get a bite to eat in Ned's hall.  Jon, you have some explaining to do...."

Ramsey: "Ahhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!"

[Hecate7]

I'm finding Jonsa a lot squickier than Jonaerys.

[Avaleigh]

I'm finding Jonsa a lot squickier than Jonaerys.

I'm not squicked out by it in the books either but I find the idea of it even less squicky in the show. Did they even have a single scene together as brother and sister in season 1? Jon/Arya though? That I totally get. That's easily the squickiest of the incestuous pairings for Jon IMO. 

Edited October 30, 2015 by Avaleigh

[bunnyblue]

Well whoever they are, I for one hope they are already truly dead before Ramsey put them on crosses and sets on fire. His "antics" were the reason I almost gave up on the show so I pray to the Seven  - no more flayed people!

 

I really really hope the people are dead too before being set on fire, but this is Ramsay after all. Torture is his game. That's why I fear they will be alive (and partially flayed) when they're strapped to those X's. 

 

Now I'm starting to think that the 2 set on fire are captured before the battle and wheeled out to demoralize and terrify the Northern forces. Because if Ramsay and his 20 good men manage to take someone in the mist of battle and then set up their little pyrotechnic show unmolested, my eyes will roll so far to the back of my head I'll be unable to view the rest of the episode. 

 

 

I'm finding Jonsa a lot squickier than Jonaerys.

 

So am I. My brain tells me that an aunt bedding her nephew is beyond disgusting, but the fact that they didn't grow up like that and don't even know each other makes it slightly easier to accept Jon and Daenarys. Cousins getting together skeeves me out less, but it's the fact that Jon and Sansa were raised together from birth as siblings that makes it impossible for me to view them as possible romantic partners. ::gags::

[nksarmi]

I think Jon and Daenarys are helped by the fact that they are like the same damn age so it's not like she's a predatory cougar or something.

I think Jon and Daenarys are helped by the fact that they are like the same damn age so it's not like she's a predatory cougar or something.

[amanda5858]

Jon and Sansa doesn't really bother me because we don't know how they feel about each other yet.  In the books, Sansa always called him half brother, and Jon had some inner dialogue about that too. I'm guessing if they are going to be paired, then we'll get dialogue saying they weren't close, etc.  It's kind of crazy how many characters Sansa will have interacted with by the end of the season.  I have no idea what her and Mel would make of each other.  

[Lady S.]

 

So am I. My brain tells me that an aunt bedding her nephew is beyond disgusting, but the fact that they didn't grow up like that and don't even know each other makes it slightly easier to accept Jon and Daenarys. Cousins getting together skeeves me out less, but it's the fact that Jon and Sansa were raised together from birth as siblings that makes it impossible for me to view them as possible romantic partners. ::gags::

Right, and half-brother (or bastard brother, as she once called him in prayer) still has the word brother in it, it's not like she was calling him "my father's bastard" or "the bastard" as if he was no relation to her. But now that she's dropped that in-book, I think it'd be much more meaningful if she actually developed a closer relationship with Jon as brother and sister, instead of it being used as an excuse for them to hook up. And I don't see how it's less weird in the show without that established distance between them. Sansa never had real interaction with him, but she also didn't have any with Bran and Rickon either, and barely any with Robb (his giving a hell no look when Joffers first eyed her then laughing when Arya ruined her dress made kind of a mixed bag there). 

[Advance35]

Eh, The lack of interaction is what makes it neck and neck with Jon/Dany for me.   But I honestly don't think they will go that way because I don't think a union between Jon and Sansa would accomplish anything.   IF Sansa lives (I'm still not convinced, her on a battlefield is an invitation to tragedy) and is wardeness of the North, I don't think she'd hesitate in supporting Jon, if he had a claim to the Throne.   

 

Marriage is a way of forging alliances in this story, Jon and Sansa already have one, kind of.   Jon/Dany, Ick and Meh.  I'm hoping GRRM has a more unique ending in mind.

[Chris24601]

There's a part of me that thinks Jonsa might be GRRM's version of 'everything you wanted in the worst possible way' to close out the story on a properly bittersweet note.

The very fact that people think of it being slightly more squicky, despite cousins actually being far less incestuous (and downright normal historically) than an aunt and nephew of an already severely inbred family is probably a big part of why GRRM would go there.

Mainly though I'm just not convinced Dany is going to be the savior she thinks she is and based on certain prophecy bits I just think her happy ending is going to involve a reunion with Drogo and her son in death and not actually sitting on the throne of a kingdom she wasn't even born in nor that she will even set foot in until probably the end of the sixth season at the earliest.

I just don't see how Jon/Dany could be in any way satisfying as an ending given that neither are likely to even meet until the story is practically over (it sounds like she won't even make it to Westeros this season and will then have King's Landing stuff to deal with and might even think of Jon as an enemy to her rule at first).

At least based on the info we have now of Sansa's location there's the prospect for the story to play up Jon and Sansa's past distance (to lessen the squick) and growing closeness over the course of two dozen or more episodes.

Its also been lingering in my mind ever since Dany threw a potentially innocent man to be burned alive by dragons in order to intimidate people into following her that I just can't help but draw parallels between her and Stannis as ruthless false messiahs (her break the wheel speech didn't help either) and if she is a false messiah then I don't expect her to survive the end game.

Between that and Sophie showing up in proximity to Jon in the coming season I just think Jonsa is going to be far more likely than Dany/Jon would be.

[nksarmi]

But Dany doesn't do that in the books, does she?  Plus she's a little less "break the wheel" and more "claim my birthright" in the books.  I think GRRM is definitely setting her up to be part of the prophesized hero.  I mean he told us through Aegon that there is a very good chance that the PtwP is her and there are definitely parts of the prophesy she has fulfilled (like waking dragons from stone).

 

I have just been wondering for some time now if "the dragon has three heads" is also an essential part of the coming messiah and salvation will come through three people - not just one.  If that is the case, Jon and Dany and someone else are probably ALL going to save the day.  The question is how many of them survive afterwards and what do they want to do once they have "won."

 

I don't put it past GRRM to kill Dany and let her be with Drogo and her son again, have Jon refuse to rule, and put Tyrion on the throne when its all said and done - if a throne even remains.

Edited October 30, 2015 by nksarmi

[Lady S.]

Does anyone really think Jon/Dany would both survive and live happily ever after? If they hook up, one or both of them will die tragically. I've thought Dany was a goner for a while now. She is a savior, that is her destiny, not the throne. (Stannis's ruthlessness wasn't what made him a false messiah, I think it was more the glaring lack of any true chosen one characteristics.) 

[aslightjump]

Lady S. words cannot express my love for your avatar. The disdain!

 

One thing that if anyone could clarify I would be deeply appreciative: Aiden Gillen and Sophie were said to have filmed a scene together in Winterfell, but without Kit or Carice. But another report says it was just Sophie and they only ever saw Aiden's trailer. Does anyone have this straight? And if they did film, is it 6x10, or from before? If it's just Sophie, surely its got to be from before.

 

Also, Yohn...damn, what is his last name? Royce! His actor is filming in December so there's got to be some Vale stuff. It's not like I'm trying to spoil the season for myself I'm just so confused as to where people are and where they are getting these wormholes that let them zip around Westeros. 

[Lady S.]

Lady S. words cannot express my love for your avatar. The disdain!

 

One thing that if anyone could clarify I would be deeply appreciative: Aiden Gillen and Sophie were said to have filmed a scene together in Winterfell, but without Kit or Carice. But another report says it was just Sophie and they only ever saw Aiden's trailer. Does anyone have this straight? And if they did film, is it 6x10, or from before? If it's just Sophie, surely its got to be from before.

 

Also, Yohn...damn, what is his last name? Royce! His actor is filming in December so there's got to be some Vale stuff. It's not like I'm trying to spoil the season for myself I'm just so confused as to where people are and where they are getting these wormholes that let them zip around Westeros. 

Haha, thanks, I changed it in honor of her s5 sl.

 

Ok, so, looking at the site where I get my spoilers, Sophie was first spotted filming up there back in July. Aiden's trailer and reports of Vale knights turned up in August, without another Sophie sighting, so I'm not clear whether he joined her there or filmed separately, but I think it was separate. WiC says Littlefinger and the Valemen will be involved in Snowbowl, but idk how reliable a source they are under the new management. Though they also say Sansa survives, and that's a reason to want to believe them.

 

A correction to something about Snowbowl, there's a different angle of Kitten with the Stark armor and his man-bun, the woman under the umbrella probably isn't Carice, but the dress she's wearing looks more like a costume than what a crewperson would wear, so maybe Carice's stand-in. (Speaking of the players formerly known as Team Dragonstone, I'm not too worried about Davos. It sounds like Liam was busy for awhile with Snowbowl, and I assume that would mean more than just a death scene.)

[SeanC]

WiC says Littlefinger and the Valemen will be involved in Snowbowl, but idk how reliable a source they are under the new management. 

They aren't reliable at all; they just repost WOTW and other claims, including rumours.  There's nothing indicating Littlefinger or the Valemen will be at Snowbowl.

 

As far as Sansa and Littlefinger's filming, they were both reported to be filming at the Winterfell set within days of each other.  Whether they were filming together is unknown, but there were no other reports of actors present on either day, so obviously we don't know everybody who was on set on either day.

[aslightjump]

Does anyone really think Jon/Dany would both survive and live happily ever after? If they hook up, one or both of them will die tragically. I've thought Dany was a goner for a while now. She is a savior, that is her destiny, not the throne. (Stannis's ruthlessness wasn't what made him a false messiah, I think it was more the glaring lack of any true chosen one characteristics.) 

I did read one horrible theory that Dany was going to be the new Nissa Nissa. Please, no, none of that. That is not an ending I'd want for Dany or anyone.

 

Thanks for the clarification guys. I think my problem was that I was getting spoilers from both WotW and WIC, and WIC seems a lot more speculation-based.

[Chris24601]

I did read one horrible theory that Dany was going to be the new Nissa Nissa. Please, no, none of that. That is not an ending I'd want for Dany or anyone.

I'll admit its more a hunch than anything... but I can't help but feel that there's more to the story of the Long Night and Azor Ahai than we know at this point... particularly in whatever set it off the first time and even more in that however it was resolved was NOT a permanent fix because now its happening again (and a related question is 'why now?')

The point though is that I can't help but suspect that whatever happened with Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa was NOT the true solution, rather like how the One Ring being lost diminished Sauron, but the failure to destroy it gave Sauron the opportunity to rise again (and nearly win) thousands of years later.

Something DIFFERENT is needed this time or the horror will just happen again in the distant future. So there is something that Jon or Dany has that Azor Ahai did not that will allow them to end the darkness forever.

If I were to guess the IT is going to be Jon's compassion... his inability to kill Ygrette even as they faced off on opposite sides of a battle... his inability to let Mance burn alive in a fire despite it being the king's demand... his inability to leave the Wildlings to die at the hands of the Walkers.

That when all the pragmatists of the world are telling Jon to plunge the blade into an innocent for the greater good, he's going to refuse and then find a better way.

Maybe Azor Ahai caved to the pragmatists who said what was needed was a sword and sacrificed it all to gain the blade, when the failure to forge the blade with anything less than his beloved's life was itself a sign that a blade wasn't the answer to the conflict.

Just some random thoughts on how it all fits... should probably cut back on the sugar/caffeine combo.

[GreyBunny]

Sadly, I think if Lightbringer is a literal sword that needs to be forged (by Gendry?) and tempered by stabbing it through someone's chest, that person will be Arya.  She's the person who Jon loves most in the world so it would be a genuine sacrifice for him to do that to her, and she's been described at least once as having a hole in her heart.

[Hecate7]

While Davos not knowing the truth might spare her for a little while, she still has a lot of enemies that support Jon.

 

Such as? I can't think of anyone who actually supports Jon, and I can't think of any actual enemies Mel has, either. There should be some, but I'm not sure there are. There also should be lots of Jon supporters, but I don't think there are yet. The ones at the Wall all are dead or on the run, and I don't think there were ever any outside the wall.

 

Still, perhaps that will change soon.

[nksarmi]

Such as? I can't think of anyone who actually supports Jon, and I can't think of any actual enemies Mel has, either. There should be some, but I'm not sure there are. There also should be lots of Jon supporters, but I don't think there are yet. The ones at the Wall all are dead or on the run, and I don't think there were ever any outside the wall.

 

Still, perhaps that will change soon.

I was thinking of the wildlings in the show since Mance is really dead by her hand in that verse more or less.

 

If I had to make some narrative guesses based on what they showed us last season (and I know it diverged from the books a bit so as they prestel back around to the books - this might not happen, but still it's what we have to go on for now....) and what we have glimpsed of season six, I would say any of the following could happen.....

 

1) The wildlings discover what the Night's Watch did to Jon and thinking they cannot be trusted, the ARMY of wildlings these idiots just let through the gates slaughter the 50 whole men of the Night's Watch that are left to defend the Wall - the kid included (saving Edd I hope).

 

2) The wildlings go to burn Jon (because they know to burn their dead) and he comes out alive with or without the help of Mel.

 

3) News spreads that Jon has betrayed the Wall and let Wildlings in and that's how Ramsey raises the Northern Lords against him.

 

4) Sansa who has sought shelter with the Northern Lords breaks from them when she learns they are going to support Ramsey.

 

5) She convinces at least some of the Northern Lords to switch sides and support Jon or else the Umbers (who have Rickon) were always playing double agent and do so on their own.  Jon wins the battle of the Bastards and Mel's vision of the Flayed Men Banners burning comes true.

 

6) Jon becomes the defacto military leader of the North while Sansa works to make alliances and gain support for Rickon's claim (as Warden of the North OR King of the North depending on how much the show wants the North to conflict with Dany when she finally gets to Westerous).

 

7) Somewhere in all of this - the Army of Undead have found a way around the Wall since no one is left to defend it.

 

Leaving us set up for season seven drama of getting the rest of Westerous on board with this whole "let's fight the undead instead of each other" concepts - Jamie and Brie will probably factor heavily in this if we leave off with them in the Riverlands at the end of season six.  Winter will move further and further South and schemes of people like Littlefinger and Cersei will just completely unravel.  Dany will move to Westerous (I believe through Dorne) and will move North, picking up supporters along the way until finally her story and Jon's intersect and we find out what the hell that is going to amount to in season eight.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2015 by nksarmi

[Hecate7]

I had forgotten that the Wildlings have a specific reason to despise Mel. Good point.

[GreyBunny]

The wildlings and the northerners in general.  She wants to burn down the weirwoods and convert everyone to her fire god.  The Old Gods and their traditions are still very important to northerners on both sides of the wall and they're not going to take kindly to Mel and her demands.  The northern houses aren't there to support Stannis, they're just using Stannis to depose the Boltons and the Freys and put a Stark back in Winterfell.

[ElizaD]

It's November and IIRC no Northern lord casting has been confirmed, which is a bit of a surprise to me. I'm just really hoping they get good character actors and salvage some of ADWD's Northern awesomeness.

 

WOTW:

 

When the casting of Joe Naufahu was announced a month ago, Deadline confirmed the actor had a “multi-episode arc” on Game of Thrones but his character name remained a mystery. It was commonly speculated he would be playing a Dothraki khal.

We’ve done a little digging, and have discovered that according to his RedEleven agency CV, the actor will be playing the role of Khal Moro.

In the ASOIAF novels, Moro is a briefly mentioned khal who is allied to Drogo and attends the presenting of Daenerys to Drogo. It’s unclear at this point whether the character Naufahu is playing is a further developed version of that Moro (perhaps based on something from The Winds of Winter) or if Game of Thrones has borrowed the name for a Dothraki character of their own.

Edited November 8, 2015 by ElizaD

[SeanC]

WOTW:  Two Northern lord characters who will be filming for one day (December 16th).  One of whom may be Lord Cerwyn, the other sounds quite a lot like Lord Manderly.

[WearyTraveler]

Dare I dream of Frey pie?

[SeanC]

Given that he's probably only got one scene, there's not going to be room for anything that elaborate (I'm not sure how there'd be a context for that, anyway).  From the description he gets a speech detailing that he's changing sides.

[Haleth]

“Fletcher”:  He is a fat nobleman in his 60’s. He has distinctive rugged features, a Northern accent, and a distinguished air. Our source says he has a stirring speech during which he unexpectedly shifts political allegiances.

 

Happy dance!

[WearyTraveler]

Given that he's probably only got one scene, there's not going to be room for anything that elaborate (I'm not sure how there'd be a context for that, anyway).  From the description he gets a speech detailing that he's changing sides.

 

Can't he give his speech in the middle of a banquet? 3:-)

[SeanC]

Can't he give his speech in the middle of a banquet? 3:-)

There's no way they could film a banquet scene in one day.  One day's filming means a handful of actors.  Not to mention, if he's only got one scene or so, there's no room for any sort of major plot involving the character, let alone something like the Frey stuff, which requires a lot of setup.

Edited November 14, 2015 by SeanC

[SeanC]

WOTW:  Ian McShane talks about his role:  "I am responsible for bringing somebody back that you think you’re never going to see again."  Pretty obviously the Elder Brother/Meribald hybrid that I (and many others) speculated about.  Perhaps most pertinently, he states he's in one episode this season.

[GreyBunny]

“Fletcher”:  He is a fat nobleman in his 60’s. He has distinctive rugged features, a Northern accent, and a distinguished air. Our source says he has a stirring speech during which he unexpectedly shifts political allegiances.

 

I got cheated out of Strong Belwas so I'd better get Wyman Manderly!  

[Winnief]

Ian McShane talks about his role:  "I am responsible for bringing somebody back that you think you’re never going to see again."  Pretty obviously the Elder Brother/Meribald hybrid that I (and many others) speculated about.  Perhaps most pertinently, he states he's in one episode this season.

 

The thought that the Hound could return gets me so excited, it scares me.  CLEGANEBOWL!!!

[SeanC]

WOTW:  Rather significant details of a scene soon to be filmed at the Winterfell set, involving Jon, Sansa, Littlefinger and Ramsay in the Winterfell courtyard, which also involves a giant attacking the gate.  Speculate away.

Edited November 16, 2015 by SeanC

[Advance35]

I think this will probably be some kind of parlay.   Jon knows and has seen, the big picture and he's not going to want to waste any lives that can be made useful in the fight against the WW, this includes the Bolton forces as well.   Littlefinger being present is what has me convinced this scene is going to take place after the battle.

 

Very interested in seeing how Sansa and LF interact after all that's happened.   The North was the most interesting location for my money, last season.  I'm thinking I'm going to feel the same this year.

[Lady S.]

I'm sad that it looks like Ramsay will outlive the far superior Papa Bolton. But Rams being present at the courtyard scene makes me think it happens pre-battle OR he's there's as a prisoner awaiting execution. If Snowbowl ends with him still alive then the whole thing would be fucking pointless.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Lady S.

[magdalene]

Living under a rock I just found out that one of the terrific actors from "Borgen"  is playing Euron. Yes. Now I wish he could have been acting with that other Borgen alumn, Birgitte the awesome Wildling woman...

[aslightjump]

I needed Ramsay dead yesterday. And some of these spoilers are starting to fall scarily in line with that 'leaked s6 synopsis' that everybody wrote off as fake because it was too fanficcy. 

 

Everyone on WotW is speculating that Sansa either goes to Castle Black or back to Littlefinger, but could she possibly get dropped off at the Umbers to see Rickon by Brienne and Pod and Theon before the first two go tromping off to the Riverlands and the latter swans off to the Iron Islands? I guess my problem is that I do not see Theon leaving her until he knows she safe and Brienne and Pod have got to be up there for a reason. 

 

Looking at all we've got, I either see Sansa dying next season or being one of the last people standing. They must have hyper accelerated her story (badly) for a reason. I just - if I have to watch her go back to being Littlefinger's pawn I will flip so many tables.

 

Spec that McShane's character is Meribald to bring back the Hound and the two Northern lords are Manderly and maybe a Cerwyn/Umber.

[ElizaD]

I'm sad that it looks like Ramsay will outlive the far superior Papa Bolton. But Rams being present at the courtyard scene makes me think it happens pre-battle OR he's there's as a prisoner awaiting execution. If Snowbowl ends with him still alive then the whole thing would be fucking pointless.

 

Ramsay wins the battle and captures Sansa and then Jon when he tries to rescue her, but since he has to die at some point a giant attack distracts him and Jon manages to kill him? That way Ramsay would get to be superhumanly awesome until the very end when his death, following a final humiliation of/triumph over the Starks, frees the North to focus on the White Walker plot.

[Advance35]

I'm sad that it looks like Ramsay will outlive the far superior Papa Bolton. But Rams being present at the courtyard scene makes me think it happens pre-battle OR he's there's as a prisoner awaiting execution. If Snowbowl ends with him still alive then the whole thing would be fucking pointless.

 

Not if Jon somehow convinces Ramsay to join the fight against the White Walkers.  I thought Ramsay was a dead man this season (and Sansa as well TBH) but now I'm agreeing with some of the other boards that are saying antagonist HAVE to be alive when the WW come.   For all the evildoers dead and all the good to shades of grey characters battling the WW seems pretty dry.   Like real life wars there will still be infighting and agendas and grudges, some will rise above and some wont.    And the characters that are alive at this time will have to deal with all of it and the otherpocalypse.

 

I could see Jon and the Wildings defeating Ramsay's forces and Jon deciding he needs every man he can get for what's coming and offering to let those who survive the battle live, provided they fight the others.   I could then see LF and Sansa hatching a poison plot of there own to remove Ramsay from right under Jon's nose.   But all that is speculation.

 

But in any event, Jon is going to have to figure out how to convince people to help with the WW.   Even people that he hates and that hate House Stark.   Ramsay (if Jon can find a way to control him or convince him, would be a good precedent or at least, testing ground).

 

 

And some of these spoilers are starting to fall scarily in line with that 'leaked s6 synopsis' that everybody wrote off as fake because it was too fanficcy.

 

It really is.  I didn't mind the outline so "Yay" for me, if true.

 

Everyone on WotW is speculating that Sansa either goes to Castle Black or back to Littlefinger, but could she possibly get dropped off at the Umbers to see Rickon by Brienne and Pod and Theon before the first two go tromping off to the Riverlands and the latter swans off to the Iron Islands? I guess my problem is that I do not see Theon leaving her until he knows she safe and Brienne and Pod have got to be up there for a reason.

 

She doesn't know where they are does she?   Theon just know's their alive?

Edited November 18, 2015 by Advance35

[SeanC]

Everyone on WotW is speculating that Sansa either goes to Castle Black or back to Littlefinger, but could she possibly get dropped off at the Umbers to see Rickon by Brienne and Pod and Theon before the first two go tromping off to the Riverlands and the latter swans off to the Iron Islands? I guess my problem is that I do not see Theon leaving her until he knows she safe and Brienne and Pod have got to be up there for a reason.

The guy playing the Smalljon is only in two episodes, one of them almost certainly being episode 9, so that effectively ruled out Sansa's first destination being Last Hearth. And she doesn't know anything about Rickon being there anyway.

[Eyes High]

It's clear by this point that Jon, Sansa and Littlefinger share screentime at some point in the season. However, at the start of the season, they're fairly far apart from each other geographically.

 

Sansa will have just escaped Winterfell, and given that she is present at the 6x09 battle, it's safe to say that she isn't recaptured by Ramsay; however, she doesn't join forces with Brienne, either (since Brienne is at Riverrun later in the season), and she and Theon part ways (since Theon winds up at the Kingsmoot). Sansa's unlikely to stick around at Winterfell, for obvious reasons, but unless she receives aid from someone, I don't see how she could plausibly make the trek unarmed and unaccompanied as Ramsay's most wanted fugitive either north to Castle Black to find Jon, or south to the Vale to meet up with Littlefinger, short of some sort of contrivance like a Stark ally popping up out of nowhere to provide her with assistance and supplies.

 

At the beginning of the season, Jon's at the Wall, and, well, dead.

 

Littlefinger will have just left KL; if Yohn Royce is around this season (which we know that he is), Littlefinger probably will have to spend at least one episode in the Vale convincing the Vale lords to provide him with an army to reclaim Winterfell. It will probably go the way Littlefinger's other conversations with the Vale lords have gone:

 

Littlefinger: Help a brother out.

Vale lords: Fuck you.

Littlefinger: Come onnnnnnn.

Vale lords: Fine, whatever.

 

So my question is, what's the order in which they join up, and what leads them to do so? Some possibilities:

 

1. Sansa stays in the north, sheltered by Stark allies, and she rallies them to her cause. Jon is resurrected and decides to abandon the NW. He takes Davos' old advice from Season 5, possibly after receiving some version of the pink letter from the books from Ramsay bragging about killing Stannis and saying he wants Sansa back, and heads south to oust the Boltons. Sansa and Littlefinger get wind of this separately and all three converge at Winterfell.

2. Sansa heads south and joins up with Littlefinger again (and the whole "LOL so sorry I accidentally married you off to a psychopathic sadist, that was my bad" thing is ignored), rallying the Vale. If the Vale army is already en route, Sansa might not have to get very far to join up with them. Sansa and Littlefinger beg for Jon's assistance in ousting the Boltons, and he not only obliges them but heads south at the head of an army.

3. Sansa heads north and joins up with Jon, who is freshly resurrected, and begs for assistance, in a bit of an Alys Karstark-style "Help me Jon Snow, you're my only hope (and also we're related)" entreaty. (There might even be a nod to the books if Melisandre predicts that Jon's sister will arrive at Winterfell, and Jon assumes it's Arya only to learn that its' Sansa instead.) Jon, disenchanted with the NW and outraged by Ramsay's actions, agrees to help her. Meanwhile, Littlefinger gathers an army to mount against Ramsay, and Jon/Sansa and Littlefinger meet at Winterfell for the big battle.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Eyes High

[mac123x]

Given that he's probably only got one scene, there's not going to be room for anything that elaborate (I'm not sure how there'd be a context for that, anyway).  From the description he gets a speech detailing that he's changing sides.

Repurposed speech that he gives Davos about how the Manderleys were driven from their home and the wolves took them in.  The debt that can never be repaid, triumphal declaration of loyalty to the Starks, aaaand scene.

[Lady S.]

Not if Jon somehow convinces Ramsay to join the fight against the White Walkers.  I thought Ramsay was a dead man this season (and Sansa as well TBH) but now I'm agreeing with some of the other boards that are saying antagonist HAVE to be alive when the WW come.   For all the evildoers dead and all the good to shades of grey characters battling the WW seems pretty dry.   Like real life wars there will still be infighting and agendas and grudges, some will rise above and some wont.    And the characters that are alive at this time will have to deal with all of it and the otherpocalypse.

 

I could see Jon and the Wildings defeating Ramsay's forces and Jon deciding he needs every man he can get for what's coming and offering to let those who survive the battle live, provided they fight the others.   I could then see LF and Sansa hatching a poison plot of there own to remove Ramsay from right under Jon's nose.   But all that is speculation.

 

No way Jon and Ramsay become allies. That's not even just about them being enemies, it's about Ramsay being an insane psycho who was/is a liability to his own father (at this point Roose's demise is likely to be at Ramsay's hands imo). Jon may need the Dreadfort men, he does not need the Dreadfort bastard. Sue the Fury's cryptic comment in that post said the characters were interacting, not necessarily talking. Who knows what the hell that means, but it seems she was addressing the idea of a peaceful parley in the vaguest possible way.