S30.E14: It's A Fickle, Fickle Game / S30.E15: Worlds Apart Reunion

[truelovekiss]

I'm glad the "salute to fallen comrades" time-wasting segment seems gone for good.

Oh my gosh, YES. It was seriously such a time waster. It's amazing how they cut that out, and the opening and closing FTC speeches, and FTC felt more choppy and rushed than ever. I know they focused a lot on Mike and his mom, but still, it felt like a lot was taken out but I can't put my finger on what we got.

[ProfCrash]

I finished listening to Mike's the Podcast with Rob Has a Podcast. It is long but good.

On the flash points scene: Mike says that Will did say some very not nice things to Mike as well as Shirin but that Will came and apologized to him the following day. He said that Shirin really started to fight back when Mike came to take her out of the fight and that she did have a few comments that she should not have said but nothing close to what Will said. He also said that he had talked to Shirin a ton in the game and she did not say bad things about Will and Dan to him and he did not hear others in the camp discussing her comments about Will and Dan. He also said that Shirin wants to understand why Will was saying that she had no soul and that until Will can explain that to her and understand why he was saying that, she is probably not going to accept his apology. Given that Mike is friends with both groups, I am going to take his reflection on the fight as the closest to what actually happen as we are going to get. He has travelled to see Dan and talks with Will. He has the least reason to exaggerate what happened or down play what happened of all the participants.

 

Sierra has been a bit coy but she did not say that Shirin was talking a ton of smack or making mean comments about folks. Tyler and Carolyn have been pretty political in their responses.

 

Here is the thing, I don't feel like I can trust what is said by the alliance of six. Their thoughts on how they played the game, Tyler and Dan both said they were heros, is just so out of line with what we were shown and some of what we have heard. It is not that Joe, Hali, and Jenn are not capable of lying or misrepresenting anything but that they have all been pretty forthcoming and don't strike me as the type who would lie to cover up Shirin's awful behavior that Will and Dan have said happened. Mike's memory strikes me as pretty even and I cannot think of why he would lie to protect Shirin.

 

Mike also said when the swap happened, Shirin was being trashed by the White Collars on the new tribe. Mike did not say that it was Joaquin so that gives me the impression that it was Joaquin and Tyler. Mike expected Shirin to be awful once he met her and was surprised that she was not even close to how she had been depicted. We know Joaquin and Shirin did not get along, it sounds like he was playing up Shirin as an awful person and Tyler might have been agreeing because he thought he would be better off with Shirin gone. Will made a comment in an interview that Shirin was being ripped into at the swap on his tribe as well. So there is the possibility that Shirin was demonized by a few folks and some of the folks latched on to that hard core.

 

I think Tyler, Carolyn, Sierra and Rodney are annoyed at how they were lost in the season. They were overshadowed by Shirin and her awkwardness and Dan and Will's bad behavior. They saw their alliance as being righteous and the people on the outside of the alliance being paranoid and untrustworthy (Mike) or soulless (Shirin). It is almost like they needed a moral reason to vote them out and to justify the alliance not flipping on each other. With that moral reason in place, they could ignore offers to flip and change up the game and stand strong. For some of them that moral reason became reason to torment others, Will and Dan. For others it left behind a tainted version of the negative events, Carolyn and Tyler. Sort of a weird dynamic but one that fits well with this most bizarre season of Survivor.

Edited May 27, 2015 by ProfCrash

[LadyChatts]

I think Tyler, Carolyn, Sierra and Rodney are annoyed at how they were lost in the season. They were overshadowed by Shirin and her awkwardness and Dan and Will's bad behavior. They saw their alliance as being righteous and the people on the outside of the alliance being paranoid and untrustworthy (Mike) or soulless (Shirin). It is almost like they needed a moral reason to vote them out and to justify the alliance not flipping on each other. With that moral reason in place, they could ignore offers to flip and change up the game and stand strong. For some of them that moral reason became reason to torment others, Will and Dan. For others it left behind a tainted version of the negative events, Carolyn and Tyler. Sort of a weird dynamic but one that fits well with this most bizarre season of Survivor.

 

 

Agree to this entire post.  I've been trying to catch up on the final 5 interviews, and one with Sierra again tries to reiterate that they are an extremely close cast, that the negativity out there was outweighed by all the positive, and that she at least felt overshadowed with her game play.  She mentioned being key in the Joaquin and Tyler votes (Joaquin yes, since she was supposedly the swing-I don't see what she had to do with Tyler, but maybe that's what she's claiming we missed).  She said she was usually very loud and annoying, and no one that knows her understood the lack of edit.  Dan took credit for the Joaquin boot, though the way I read it from Sierra, she appears to say she was responsible for it going down.  To have the ultimate seal of approval, with Jeff Probst telling your cast halfway through he thinks it's a great group and wants everyone to return, on top of the pre season hype, only to have it go the way it did, have to have been a blow.  The very people that were the biggest rivals to the six were the ones who came out smelling like roses.  Sierra also brought up she thought Mike's social game would cost him, and that he was very delusional and making waves.  Yet the way we saw it, and what I believe, is that they put him on the outs and were just upset because he ruined their plan.  He was trying to help those that ultimately were targeted and on the bottom, just like he claimed.  They all had tunnel vision.  I even credited Rodney at one point for thinking ahead and looking at the big picture, but after he got his alliance together, I don't think he knew what to do beyond that.  It was get out the NC, then Shirin, then Mike.  No one seemed to have a game plan of what to do if any of that failed.

 

Well another season of Survivor is over and, regardless of finding it a boring season, I am still sad it ended.

 

 

This.  As much as I couldn't wait for the season to end, I don't know what to do with myself tonight.  It makes the anticipation to fall worse since it we already know the cast, and I'm on pins and needles for my faves.

Edited May 27, 2015 by LadyChatts

[ProfCrash]

Mike did say that there were big blow ups everyday at the Blue COllar beach but that they were done with in 15 minutes and then they would end up at the beach goofing off in the water and having fun. So I think the disconnect for the cast to the show is that the cast remembers the goofing off, the karaoke (referenced by a few folks), the impressions, and the light hearted moments. Shirin herself said she had forgotten about the conversation with Dan where he was telling her that she was awful at the game. Mike said that he knew that Will would not win after the big blow up with Shirin, that fight seemed to stand out in everyone's mind before the season began airing.

 

I think they expected more of the lighthearted goofiness like we saw from the No Collars in the first few episodes, Mike even referenced the Blue Collar surf boards, and less of the negative behavior. I would go so far as to say that the Dan stuff was not on display 24/7 but that it showed up in places and was dismissed as Dan being Dan, the same way Rodney's comments were dismissed as Rodney being Rodney. They didn't hold Dan's comments against him because they were not one on top of another and did not seem like a pattern. Seeing them strung together was a surprise.

 

I would hope that Dan has some time to sit back and take a look at the edit and realize that he did say and do those things. And that while he might not have meant them in a certain way, the number of times that they happened is probably a hint that there are some underlying issues that he should address. It does not seem like any of the women on the show have an issue with Dan which is an indication that he is less of an ass then he was depicted. That said, you do not make the number of comments he did and treat women as dismissively as he did without there being something to address. If he takes away from this season that he needs to think before he speaks and that he needs to think about how he approaches women, then good for him.

 

Will, apologized to Mike and told Jenn he had not problems in game. He still has not given Shirin an explanation for his comments. His argument that you apologize when someone is ready to hear it is bullshit. His apology at the show was bullshit. Will needs to do some soul searching and figure out why he would lash out like that and continue to hold the belief that someone has no soul and is unloved for a long period of time.

 

I almost think that Dan is more likely to learn something from this then Will.

 

Joaquin sounds like even more of a dick then I thought he was on the show. I would love to see the raw footage about what he was saying regarding Shirin at the swap. Actually, no I don't because I think I would dislike him more then Will.

[LadyChatts]

I wish Survivor could do more raw footage, maybe something like the BB After Dark or there own version of feeds (since it wouldn't be live).  Not just the extra vids and secret scenes, but more like an extra couple of hours worth of footage.  I know there's way more down time on Survivor than BB, but they obviously find stuff to occupy their time vs just sitting around.  At the very least, it might be harder to hide behind the whole editing argument.

 

I remember Shirin saying that everyone at Esemeca was down on her because of what Joaquin said.  I have a feeling Tyler was also in on it.  It's interesting that Joaquin slipped under the radar until his bromance with Rodney.  Maybe they figured there were enough bullies and misogynists to go around.  In regards to Dan, it appeared most everyone wasn't aware of what he was saying.  Either they never had any real interactions with him (the NC after the merge), or it was all done in TH/one on ones.  So many people seemed surprised by him when watching.  As for Will, I don't think he anticipated the backlash.  Obviously, no one seemed to like Shirin out there.  Either they outright hated her or found her annoying.  So I'm sure coming off the show, they likely assumed she'd be getting more of an edit on what they witnessed.  I don't see Will ever saying he was wrong for what he said or even thinking he was wrong.  I don't even think Dan will come away more self aware.  I see him as someone whose dream of being on this show became overshadowed by what he believes was misrepresentation, and that it was all CBSs fault, not his.  It certainly isn't the first, nor the last, people say they got too quiet of an edit or that they missed out on some of the fun times.  But this season especially there seems to be overdrive by a select few to paint a different picture.  

Edited May 27, 2015 by LadyChatts

[Daisy]

I'm glad the "salute to fallen comrades" time-wasting segment seems gone for good.

 

next up: loved one visits. 

i'm okay with letters at the auction, but loved one visits can go away.

[LadyChatts]

next up: loved one visits. 

i'm okay with letters at the auction, but loved one visits can go away.

 

Agree with that.  The loved one visits are such an overdramatic pile of mush.  Though I actually liked the fallen comrades.  Not sure if it was just nice to see everyone again one last time (since almost all of them get ignored at the reunion now), or to hear the final 3 try to come up with nice things to say about people they either hated or people that they didn't even know.  Wasn't that during Micronesia, Amanda and Parvati made some remark about having nothing to say about Mary because they didn't remember her?

[BigRedCheese]

Me three on the loved ones visit, but if I had to choose, I hate the fallen comrades thing with the passion of  a thousand suns, I always just ff'd through it.

[allthatglitters]

Wow, Jenn would have voted for Rodney over Mike?

 

I really want to hear her explanation. Maybe someone will ask her on Twitter or somewhere. After praising Mike as the undisputed one that deserves to win, a thousand percent, all it takes is, of all people, Rodney to bump Mike off that throne? I just don't get that. Maybe she misunderstood or was joking?

I also wanted to hear her at the reunion. She always throws in an unexpected gem. Loved her at the FTC.  Like others have said, she said exactly what I was thinking. I was disappointed that her name didn't even come up for the Second Chances.

 

Will is such a pitiful loser.  He was the sole reason that the No Collar team lost all those first crucial challenges, and whose members were then subsequently voted off. Then he cowardly jumps ship to help the asshole BC team to decimate his former teammates further. Then has the arrogance around camp to lay into Shirin like that and think he's above it all and did nothing wrong. And bringing God into it and scolding Shirin that she has to learn how to forgive at the reunion was the last dollup of bitter icing on that fat ugly cake.

 

I think Mike was just lucky that most didn't buy Tyler or Shirin or Joes insinuations that he had no game play. Because he was working the game from the get-go.  And he played it from different positions. He mastered the art of being a leader..without being a target (ie Boston Rob), and then when on the outs, he worked to find an idol, and win IC when he had to. But why didn't he vocalize all that?  I think one reason was the surprising lack of opporunity because for some odd reason the opening AND  closing pleas to the jurors were nixed this time. (At least have one!).  The jury could have simply ignored Mike and he'd never had had a chance to say anything at all. They would have to actually ask him "why do you think you deserve to win?" in order for him to lay out his case.  But he could have still found a way and should have had a whole speech prepared that described more of what we, the audience, saw as he schemed and ruminated throughout the game.  Anyways glad he won.  But I'll still never forgive him for the "Merica name. ugh.

[Special K]

The thing that is so terrible, and laughable, about the Fallen Comrades section is when they have to talk about someone from another tribe that got voted off before any of the remaining finalists even met him or her.  It's all, "so-and-so...wow, so-and-so...yeah, she seemed...nice"  or "you know, she really kicked ass in that challenge that one time..."  Hilarious!

[Daisy]

Agree with that.  The loved one visits are such an overdramatic pile of mush.  Though I actually liked the fallen comrades.  Not sure if it was just nice to see everyone again one last time (since almost all of them get ignored at the reunion now), or to hear the final 3 try to come up with nice things to say about people they either hated or people that they didn't even know.  Wasn't that during Micronesia, Amanda and Parvati made some remark about having nothing to say about Mary because they didn't remember her?

 

They are. but Jeff loves it so it's not going anywhere. I thought we escaped it this season, but smack. it's all the sobbing "I missed youuuu." that gets me. I mean I've overseas for a year in a country they didn't speak English, I was treated like I was a freak of nature, I didn't get to contract my parents for about my final 2-3 months, and I still didn't act the way these guys act on a game show. (i think i was more emotional getting a box of triscuits than seeing my mom). 

 

 

 

Me three on the loved ones visit, but if I had to choose, I hate the fallen comrades thing with the passion of  a thousand suns, I always just ff'd through it.

 

it was my bathroom break. It was a guaranteed go pee, wash hands, get snackage, and prepare for final tribal. (so for that, i do kind of miss it). but i loathed it. especially if it was a final 3 of a certain tribe so they didn't even know like 1/2 of the pre-bootouts. 

[LadyChatts]

I really want to hear her explanation. Maybe someone will ask her on Twitter or somewhere. After praising Mike as the undisputed one that deserves to win, a thousand percent, all it takes is, of all people, Rodney to bump Mike off that throne? I just don't get that. Maybe she misunderstood or was joking?

I also wanted to hear her at the reunion. She always throws in an unexpected gem. Loved her at the FTC.  Like others have said, she said exactly what I was thinking. I was disappointed that her name didn't even come up for the Second Chances.

 

 

Jenn had some really good soundbites, especially when she was still on the NC tribe.  I would have liked to hear her 'romance novel cover' line about Joe, and her quotes about how weird Vince, his feathers, and puppy dog feelings were.  I would have liked to get reaction from her bee sting during the first II.  Really, there was a lot more pre-merge this season they could have covered compared to past seasons.  It's unfortunate the S31 announcement took up so much time.  Mike even joked in some of his interviews about the lack of time he got.  As for Jenn, I was really surprised she wasn't among the choices for S31.  I don't know if she declined the offer, but I would have liked to have seen her over Carolyn or Shirin.  Carolyn was kind of a wasted spot.  I do hope we get to see Jenn in the future.  I'd like to see Hali as well.  She was a lot of fun to watch during Ponderosa. 

 

Carolyn thinks not being able to have an opening/closing speech hurt her.  I don't know that it would have mattered, but that was one reason I thought she might do well, if she was able to provide a convincing argument.  I believe TPTB just wanted to get through the finale and reunion as quickly as possible, with as little coverage as possible.

 

They are. but Jeff loves it so it's not going anywhere. I thought we escaped it this season, but smack.

 

 I thought we did, too, since they typically don't have them so late.  They got love letters, what's to be so emotional about.  I was hoping, since Joe was upset during his Ponderosa vid about missing out on the family visit, that they weren't going to have one this season.  I just think of friends and family who were deployed overseas for months and years.  But these guys aren't even gone a full 2 months and you'd think they were reuniting with someone they hadn't seen in 20 years.  Although I must confess, I would be like Jenn and her animal pics.  Wouldn't get emotional for a family visit, but give me a pic or video of my cat and I'd bawl like a baby.

 

Something else I'd like to see them do away with is the Survivor Auction.  I liked it in the beginning, but now I'm just meh on it.  I liked it better when there was no advantages to be bought during it and no drama.  And not buying yourself out of the auction, but still getting a coolers worth of food, or getting your money back on a purchase.  There were some good moments in the beginning, but I'm over it.  Of course, after this season, I'm sure it isn't going anywhere, either.

Edited May 28, 2015 by LadyChatts

[Special K]

The loved ones cry-fest is just like yawning or, even better, vomiting. Maybe you didn't feel sick before, but once you see one person vomit, you all vomit.  That's what I think the loved ones visit is like.

[himela]

I still like that during the fallen comrad or how you call it the players who have left talk about their mistakes, their strategy, their game, what they would have done differently, and as it goes now it's the last thing we would hear from them since in the reunion it's all the drama that absorbs their attention. I would like to hear for instance how Kelly felt about her blindside, if she thought she could have changed it, what happened at that challenge where Mike had to help her to win immunity and stay etc. I'd like to know why Joe showed a lack of strategy. I'd like to know if Vince was the freak everyone was saying he was. I mean, it's like they choose players only to create drama and then they just focus on it. I start to hate this mentality.

[ProfCrash]

You still get that for the folks at Ponderosa but they don't do anything for the pre jury folks. It would be kind of fun to see what they are up to. I heard they went to Costa Rica this season.

[SlackerInc]

I'm glad the "salute to fallen comrades" time-wasting segment seems gone for good.

 

 

Agree with that.  The loved one visits are such an overdramatic pile of mush.  Though I actually liked the fallen comrades.  Not sure if it was just nice to see everyone again one last time (since almost all of them get ignored at the reunion now)...

 

I don't mind the loved one visits, although it does get overly mushy.  But I always skipped the fallen comrades, yet at the same time I bemoan the fact that they no longer give everyone at the reunion a chance to talk.  I know that seems contradictory, but there was something more real, I guess, about talking to them live.  I wouldn't mind seeing them start the reunion fifteen or twenty minutes earlier, with no introduction of next year's cast, no nonsense with the crowd, minimal video highlights, and just talk to everyone.

[Jersey Guy 87]

I liked when they would do the fallen comrades and get to someone who wasn't on a tribe with any of the remaining players. I'd like as they'd try to come up with something to say about this player they didn't know at all as anything other than someone on the other tribe who got voted out early.

 

I didn't miss the fallen comrades this year, and I could have done without the loved ones.  Although when Mike's mom went on and on about how she had blown Mike's advantage I figured that meant he would win final immunity.

[LadyChatts]

You still get that for the folks at Ponderosa but they don't do anything for the pre jury folks. It would be kind of fun to see what they are up to. I heard they went to Costa Rica this season.

 

I still wish they'd do a pre-jury Ponderosa.  The pre-jury crowd always goes on a trip somewhere (So had pictures on her twitter of their Costa Rica adventures), but I always thought it would be interesting to have the pre-jury and jury crowd mix at Ponderosa.  While the pre-jury boots would likely go completely stir crazy having to hang at Ponderosa for 36 days, and seeing people trickle in with more exciting things to talk about since they lasted longer in the game, this season especially would have been interesting.  However, it would also be a nightmare for us viewers to keep track of everyone, and given that some of the Ponderosa vids this season were hijacked by others, I guess I didn't need to see Vince or Nina gloat about Joe, Hali, and Jenn getting picked off.  But I still would love to see the pre jury crowd mingle before they head off to wherever.

[ProfCrash]

I think they could show videos for the Pre-Jury they way they do the Jury without mixing the Jury and Pre-Jury boots. Obviously there would be separate sections, call one the Roaming Ponderosa and one Ponderosa. It would be neat to see how the earlier outs deal with it but it might be harder to film because having a camera crew with them that they were on a TV show and make it easy to spoil.

[rose711]

Mike has a rambling 3 plus hour podcast on Rob has a podcast if anyone wants to hear this thoughts.

Looking back over this season, I feel that I didn't really like any of the contestants as players. I've seen them described as the unlikable and the invisible, but more than that none of them were superlative players.

Joe had no strategy and showed how dangerous he was at the very first challenge.

Mike basically overplayed and "over aggressived"everything he touched. His bossiness and arrogance at the challenges, like the barrel and board thing that was designed for team work,

Just turned me against him.

Carolyn realized too late she should have flipped to work with Mike. The alliance of goats that Rodney lined up was just too appealing for her. I'm sure she never dreamed that Mike would win out. Carolyn can act as if she was strategic, but she basically sailed along with her alliance knowing she had an idol her save her if needed.

I'm glad Mike won because I admire him for staying strong and determined when everyone was against him. But he is the best out of a long list of very poor or unlikable players. I'm glad he won so he won't be back anytime soon.

My hope is next season will be excellent, fun and entertaining.

[LadyChatts]

I think they could show videos for the Pre-Jury they way they do the Jury without mixing the Jury and Pre-Jury boots. Obviously there would be separate sections, call one the Roaming Ponderosa and one Ponderosa. It would be neat to see how the earlier outs deal with it but it might be harder to film because having a camera crew with them that they were on a TV show and make it easy to spoil.

 

Suddenly I feel like Survivor could completely confuse The Amazing Race spoiler community by having some of their people out and about with a camera crew of their own.

 

It would be interesting just to get the perspective of the first few boots, who really didn't get the chance to play, and know they still have 30+ more days to make it through before they can even go home.  At least the jury boots have something to do in regards to the game.  The pre-jury boots are just waiting it out.  It does appear as though TPTB try to make sure they have fun on whatever vacation spot they send them to.  This season especially, though, I would have liked to have heard from the pre jury crowd.  All but Nina were surprised by their ousters.  I know there's often bitterness by an early boot and they think/hope their tribe will suffer without them.

[ProfCrash]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2015/06/10/the-non-apology-of-the-year-award-goes-to-nobel-scientist-who-thinks-women-just-cry-all-the-time/?tid=pm_pop_b

Tim Hunt is even worse at apologizing then Dan!

OK, so slightly more seriously...

Dan's behavior on Survivor was bad because it reinforces the stereotypical notion that women have to be approached in a specific manner and that women have to be treated with kid gloves. Hunt's comments are far worse then anything we saw or heard Dan do (gender segregated labs because women cause men to fall in love with them or fall in love with the men and then cry? Really?) but it is the underlying description of how women behave that is problematic. Dan was less forthright in his words but his words and actions sure point to a similar attitude about women.

And when you toss Dan and Joaquin with their more obvious statements and interactions aired on the show and in interviews, Mike's less frequent but still troubling statements about women at the beginning of the season, and the comments that Shirin has said that Tyler made (Just sit there and look pretty) and you have the overall problem with this season.

There was an underlying theme of sexism that most women experience on a day to day basis that is difficult to deal with because it is insidiously quiet and hard to tackle. And that is why this season sucked. Not the group think (that was painful to watch) but the underlying current that the women had to be treated differently and had no chance in hell of winning this season because the unspoken (in a few cases clearly spoken) attitude of the men was that the women were not equal competitors and there was no way they would vote for them.

 

Dan's comments, Mike's initial refusal to acknowledge that the women were doing as much work as he was, Joaquin's open disdain and comments to Shirin, all point to the current way that many women are treated in the country. The sexism isn't necessarily fully in your face but it is there. And Tim Hunt does a nice job of showing exactly how bad it is.

[pennben]

Who is this 'Dan" you speak of?  I have no memory of him.