Supersuits, Sets, and Special Effects: The Production Topic

[Trini]

A thread to discuss and share about how the show is made. Sets, locations, costumes, props, CGI, practical effects, stunts, etc.

[tv echo]

Also discusses Supergirl costume in this article...

 

Costume Designer Colleen Atwood on Making the Heroes of ‘Flash’ & ‘Arrow’ Look Super
JUNE 3, 2015 | 10:00AM PT  Laura Prudom
http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/supergirl-costume-colleen-atwood-flash-arrow-emmy-1201511007/

What were your inspirations for the Supergirl costume? I love that it prioritizes practicality over the general comic book principle of revealing a lot of skin, as is the case with a lot of female costumes.
 

I feel like there’s a real love for Americana with Supergirl, and I wanted to really embrace that heart of women — there’s enough skin out there in the world, it’s not for everybody and Melissa was just the right person to pull it off.  When I read the script I was just really blown away by how strong it was, and I wanted the character to have a strength and presence of self without a bunch of stuff.

Edited June 4, 2015 by tv echo

[Trini]

From Melissa's EW interview; some excerpts about behind-the-scenes stuff:

What was the audition process for Supergirl like?

I never thought that I would say it, but it was even more intense than Glee. I had a pretty rigorous audition process for Glee, but this one, rightfully so, they really wanted to be sure that they found the right person for Kara. It was a long, drawn-out, three-month process. I auditioned around Halloween 2014 and then didn’t land the part until February 2015. I went through multiple screen-tests, multiple auditions with the producing team. There was a lot.

 

How did you feel the first time you put on the Supergirl costume?

The first time I put the costume on, it was a mixture of a lot of emotions. It’s impossible not to feel empowered when you put it on. You would think, “Oh, it’s silly. I’m putting on tights. I’m putting on a leotard and a skirt. There’s muscles built into the suit. There’s a cape. I’m going to feel like it’s Halloween.” But something changes internally. I feel like a different person almost. It really is an alter ego, where I feel inspired, hopeful and empowered. I tried the suit for the first time on at the costume designer’s house. I had just had an injury to my eye, so I had an eye patch on. [Laughs] So simultaneously, I’m feeling all these feelings of empowerment and positivity and femininity and strength, and I have this pirate patch on essentially. It was a little goofy. There was two things going on at once — two opposing factors of trying the suit on.

At first, I was like, "really?" But you can see that there's padding in the shoulders and upper arms (at least) in some pictures, depending on how she's holding her arms.

 

You’re following in the footsteps of Helen Slater, who appears in the Supergirl pilot. What advice did she give you?

The advice I did get made me so jealous. We started talking about it and she asked me what kind of training they had me doing. At that point, I was just doing some boxing, strength training and a lot of core work. She gave me this look, and I was like, “Why, what did they have you do?” “Oh, I went horseback riding, and fencing and doing some archery and I was swimming.” She went through this whole gamut of awesome outdoor activities that I would love to do to train. ...

 

[BkWurm1]

I know I've seen the Supergirl movie but I don't recall her riding a horse or swimming or using a bow and arrow.  Maybe I'm blocking something? 

[The Crazed Spruce]

I know I've seen the Supergirl movie but I don't recall her riding a horse or swimming or using a bow and arrow.  Maybe I'm blocking something?

To be fair, it was a different era. Alien had just come out a few years ago, and The Terminator had just barely hit the theaters when Supergirl went into production, so female action heroes were virtually unheard of, and if someone had brought up the idea of an actress strength-training for a role, the producers would've looked at them like they'd grown a second head. They were probably more worried about her looking athletic in a leotard than looking believably strong in the role, so they had her focus on general fitness over muscle tone.

[BkWurm1]

I haven't done a lot of riding but I do remember feeling it in my abs the next day (and the butt and the thighs).  I suppose it would go toward core strength, just with a horsey aroma and the risk of breaking your neck. 

[legaleagle53]

To be fair, it was a different era. Alien had just come out a few years ago, and The Terminator had just barely hit the theaters when Supergirl went into production, so female action heroes were virtually unheard of, and if someone had brought up the idea of an actress strength-training for a role, the producers would've looked at them like they'd grown a second head. They were probably more worried about her looking athletic in a leotard than looking believably strong in the role, so they had her focus on general fitness over muscle tone.

 

That's true.  Even with the Terminator franchise, Linda Hamilton didn't start actually doing strength training to prepare for the role until the first sequel.  While we would consider it a given that she would do so today, back then, it would have been considered highly unusual, especially given the then-prevailing myth (which inexplicably persists today despite ample scientific evidence to the contrary) that women who do weight training tend to bulk up like men.

[Trini]

From the interview with the director of the pilot, Glen Winter:

How has technology changed the way you approached Kara's Kryptonian powers?
 
<...>
To answer your question about technology, we were able to use the best of actual physical rigging that exists today, where these guys can use wires in these incredible ways. You can actually shoot physical gags with the actors doing them in a safe way. You don't have to rely on visual effects all the time. It's much easier to shoot a a scene to make it look awesome if the actors are really doing it, and then have the effects guys erase the wires. That's an amazing use of technology. Wire removal has become so dirt cheap. In the old days on "Smallville," we used to have to budget for it.

In the pilot, we have two big fight scenes and the plane scene. Kara is flying with the plane. We were able to shot this gigantically epic scene, which for the most part exists in a CG 3-D world with green screen. Technology helped us shoot these incredible action scenes for real, but they also helped us shoot something that wasn't remotely real and was almost entirely CG. They would have had a year to finish that sequence on the next Superman movie. Our effects guys did it in a month to six weeks. The key is not to rely on one in its entirety; it's to figure out the best way the two can work together.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Trini

[MarkHB]

Here are a bunch of candid photos from Day 2 of filming.  The first couple could be considered slightly spoilery.

[Trini]

Thanks. I don't normally pay attention to set photos, but I really need to figure out the deal with that skirt! There some indication it could be a skort, but it's not conclusive -- gah.

[quarks]

I hope those boots are more comfortable than they look.

[Kromm]

As time goes by I bet the show finds itself adjusting both the boots and the skirt/skort.  The design team did a good job with them out of the box, but they put too much emphasis on Melissa's thighs, and focusing precisely there is not a good look for MOST people (even someone as young and generally in shape as her).

 

Heh. One photo in that group was amusing.  Supergirl and Krypto!  Okay,not really...

 

[legaleagle53]

That looks more like Streaky with a bad haircut!

[Trini]

There are some new set photos out, and from this one it looks like there's the flap at the front that is not attached to the sides of the skirt; from the Variety cover shoot, I thought the front was just a deep box pleat. (It's probably two different skirts.) There also appears to be a similar flap in the back of the skirt. I'm leaning towards more skirt than skort, but I'm still unsure at this point.  :-/

[Kromm]

The Variety costume is identical to the one in the Pilot. 

 

The one in that new shot looks like the middle panel is VERY subtly different--no more than another inch or two longer.  Which DOES from the way it lies make it look like a flap rather than something simply attached with deep pleats. 

 

I am wondering though if it could be the same, except ironed down more. Maybe when it is, that pleat is sharper, and when it's not, it's shallower and the front piece billows more (drawing the bottom up a bit). 

 

Pilot:

 

New shot:

 

[Trini]

Details can change between the pilot and the later episodes, though. (Superman's costume in L&C had at least 3 variations in the first season, I believe.) Anyway, I'm just going to have to see more of the costume in action. Hurry up, October!

[Kromm]

I didn't say that wasn't the case (that it wasn't new). Just that looking at the photos it truly is hard to tell (because ironing it might cause similar looking changes too).

[MarkHB]

Regardless of whether it's a skirt, two skirts, or a skort, I hope we're all agreed that it's far better than nipples and a giant codpiece!

 

[Trini]

Egads -- I never noticed the bat symbols on Batgirl's boots before. Those were like parodies of comic book costumes.

[Kromm]

Not only Joel Schumacher, but the costume design department on that movie, really even still deserve to be mocked and scorned. 

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118688/fullcredits?ref_=tt_ov_st_sm

 

 

Costume Design by

Ingrid Ferrin
Robert Turturice

Amazingly enough these two continued to get at least small amounts of work after this debacle. 

[MarkHB]

They delivered what they were asked to deliver: outfits that would make decent-selling action figures.  Hell, they even look like molded plastic, to the point that the seams around the guys' groins look like the "poseable articulation joints" on the Gi Joe's I had as a kid!  It's just regrettable that no one in control of the movie viewed it as anything other than a giant toy commercial.

 

But, we're really supposed to be talking about Supergirl!  :)

[Kromm]

I think we can setting the "did they change the skirt" issue here and now.

 

On another thread, someone posted this barely-off set Instagram with Melissa and some Girl Scouts--posted last night so it's certainly from the current episode shooting. Note the skirt she's wearing. It not only doesn't look like a flap, you can't even see the pleats anymore.

 

https://instagram.com/p/6oHsSKJVza/

 

What appears to happen maybe is that they iron the pleat sharp before she puts it on and over the course of wearing it, the pleat softens and billows out and eventually totally disappears. I mean that's the only real explanation short of them using different kinds of skirts for different shots.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Kromm

[Trini]

Aw, cute!

I dunno, it's not the best pic to study details. But I think different skirts for different shots/purposes (stills, stunts, flying, etc.) are a real possibility. I hope we get some interviews and BTS videos with the costume people sometime this season; this is going to keep nagging me.   :-P

[Trini]

From the CBR interview in the Media thread:
 

What's been the fun discovery doing the show?

 

Jordan: The cast.

Brooks: Well, honestly, two things: The cast, like, we've very quickly become like this small family, and we all get along really well which is fantastic and necessary. But also, the size and the scope of the show -- like, we have the most incredible crew, the most incredible post production, our producers are incredible, the writers--

Jordan: We took up four stages at Warner Bros.

Brooks: Five.

Jordan: Where's the fifth one? Apparently, we take up five stages at the Warner Bros. lot. I mean, it's nuts.

Brooks: And we have these camera angles where there's a matted out black horse that has this Russian arm or something, and it has a camera that hangs on a weight pulley system that goes 360.

Jordan: You'd think that we were shooting a movie every week.

Brooks: A huge movie. And the show looks like that: it has this grand scope, so I don't think that people are going to be disappointed. And it's not just talking heads. It looks and feels like a film which we love.

Jordan: CBS is putting a lot of stock in us, and a lot of faith in our show. And I think they really trusted what we're putting out, and it's showing with sort of what they're giving us to produce our show, which is really exciting. ...

[Trini]

So after watching the CBS preview special -- and going through that sucker frame by frame -- I have concluded that it is skirt with a deep box pleat in the front (and back, most likely). I suspect the pleats are weighted slightly so that they hang differently than the sides. So now I can stop obsessing -- until the new episodes air.  :-P

 

-------

I know the Supergirl costume probably won't change much throughout the show's run, but I wouldn't mind if it did. Unlike the costumes for Arrow and The Flash, her outfit is more symbolic than functional. She could wear almost anything and it wouldn't affect the use of her powers. So if they decided to try a whole new style later, it could work.

[Trini]

From the EW Fall Preview:

... The pilot, reported to cost $14 million and stuffed to the gills with special effects, took more than a month to film. “It sometimes turned a little tedious for us, like, ‘Take 40!’” says Jeremy Jordan, who plays Kara’s friend-zoned confidant Winslow. “We were like, ‘Am I that bad of an actor?’ But they wanted to get a bunch of options so they could find the right tone.” ...

... Which brings us back to the Supergirl herself. She’s sometimes working until 2:30 a.m., cheerfully hanging board-stiff on “flying” wires (which feels like trying to set a record for holding the world’s longest plank), wearing a corset under an increasingly uncomfortable muscle-padded suit, dragging around a cape all day …

[Danielg342]

As much as I might have actually enjoyed a revealing costume, I like how it's not the route they took. For once, when it comes to a female hero, her wardrobe might not actually be a topic of conversation...we might actually have to talk about her character, for a change (shocking, I know). Besides...I think she looks great in it anyway.

[Trini]

BTS photo; do they have her attached to a crane?!

[BkWurm1]

Ha!  Soooo much hairspray. 

[Trini]

This should probably be here too:

 

[Trini]

What is up with the stupid clip-on white streak for Astra? It looks sooo fake. Not even the same texture or curl of the actress' hair. Everything else looks good production-wise, I don't understand them skimping on this detail.

[Trini]

Wow, they actually have a Martian Manhunter suit for David Harewood! I didn't think they'd bother with that since onscreen, he's 100% CGI.

[Trini]

I guess that having a suit for MM saves (a little bit) on special effects; but I thought that matching CGI to film was more labor intensive than just having a full CGI character. On the other hand, it does probably look better; especially depending on the lighting in a scene.

[Trini]

Lots of behind-the-scenes photos of the crossover in this gallery for Variety.

[bettername2come]

I haven't seen it said, so I'm just going to put it out there. I love Supergirl's apartment. It's gorgeous. If Kara's career at Catco doesn't work out she should consider a career as an interior decorator.

[regularlyleaded]

With Supergirl production moving to Vancouver it occurs to me that Supergirl's uniform isn't exactly what I would call "winterized". I hope they invest in a lot of outdoor space heaters otherwise that's going to be some miserable outdoor shoots for poor Melissa when winter gets into swing in Vancouver. Nothing but a mere long sleeve top with tights and a short skirt to wear in the dead of winter? Yikes. That cape is going to be her best friend.

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, regularlyleaded said:

With Supergirl production moving to Vancouver it occurs to me that Supergirl's uniform isn't exactly what I would call "winterized". I hope they invest in a lot of outdoor space heaters otherwise that's going to be some miserable outdoor shoots for poor Melissa when winter gets into swing in Vancouver. Nothing but a mere long sleeve top with tights and a short skirt to wear in the dead of winter? Yikes. That cape is going to be her best friend.

Yeah, that's a problem.  Supergirl may be invulnerable (and thus a cold Vancouver winter would be nothing for her because she wouldn't even feel the cold), but Melissa isn't.

[secnarf]

Vancouver is definitely colder than Southern California, but the winters aren't usually too bad! Averages above freezing, even in January/February. Not that barely-above-freezing is going to be comfortable in Supergirl's suit, but given that most of the filming will be indoors, it should be doable.

[Trini]

Interview with producer Larry Teng; he talks a bit about behind-the-scenes stuff, including the move to Vancouver:

Quote

Supergirl.tv You've said before the Supergirl has a 10-day shoot period before. Is that standard in TV, or is that a little long?

It is a little long. Its a very nice luxury to have. Typically shows will prep for 7 days and shoot for 8, that is the standard. On basic cable shows, you're looking at 7 day prep, 7 day shoot. We basically have two days allocated to stunts. We have two or three elaborate fight scenes per episode and all the wire work and again, it's like Grant [Gustin] doesn't have to get on a wire he just has to run on a treadmill. The logistics of executing his material and demonstrating his power is a lot ... easier isn't the right word but it's not as complicated. Where as for Melissa, to be in that harness and to be on a green screen stage, we don't have a lot of time for her to rehearse because she is always working. So basically on the day she is getting there she's learning the scenes and learning the fights. She has to be in insane physical shape to pull that stuff off. Its a little trickier. You can't just bring her up there and keep her up there all day. Its an enormous amount of pressure to put on your physical body. So those days where we are doing just the flying sequences, it takes more time to do than a normal scene by a factor of 4 or 5 even. Its about 40 - 45 minutes a shot.

[MarkHB]

Just so everyone knows, there have been several potentially fake Twitter accounts set up for the show with the move to the CW and Vancouver.  The folks at Supergirl.TV did some digging, and apparently the official account will be https://twitter.com/TheCWSupergirl.  (That one's actually being followed by a WBTV publicist for the show, btw.)  @supergirlcbs (the old account) was still Tweeting as of last week, and @supergirlstaff (the writers' room account) hasn't actually Tweeted since February.  Those are the only accounts I'm aware of that have "official" status other than verified accounts for the actors themselves.

[Trini]

"Supergirl" VFX Breakdown; for the effects in the Pilot:

Their Emmy submission, essentially.

[MarkHB]

It was wondered about in the spoiler thread, but according to this, Supergirl is supposed to start production on July 25, which is after SDCC.

[Trini]

First look at the Superman suit!

I like it, except for the belt. (And the actor's permanent 5 o'clock shadow...)

[stealinghome]

Is it just me, or are the proportions on that photo really, really weird?

that said, the design of the suit is solid enough. I actually like the belt, and the gold trim there/at the shoulders.

[Kaoteek]

Yeah, it's not working for me. A good part of the problem is the odd picture & pose, in and of itself, but I can't say that I like the costume. The belt seems blocky and gives him a mid-80s action figure waist, the gold at the shoulders is just pointless, the overall costume lacks shape & form (which kills the actor's physique), and yeah, the actor's look & 5 o'clock shadow don't help.

Not a fan.

[The Crazed Spruce]

Well, it's tough to judge from a static photograph. Maybe you'll like it better when you see it in action.

Personally, I'm fine with it. Looks better than Henry Cavill's, at any rate.

[Kromm]

3 hours ago, Trini said:

First look at the Superman suit!

I like it, except for the belt. (And the actor's permanent 5 o'clock shadow...)

I mentioned that even when he was first cast. The actor has always shown that tendency and its not very Supermanish unless you go with the "has to laser eyes off his facial hair and can't do it very often" route.

[Kromm]

1 hour ago, Kaoteek said:

Yeah, it's not working for me. A good part of the problem is the odd picture & pose, in and of itself, but I can't say that I like the costume. The belt seems blocky and gives him a mid-80s action figure waist, the gold at the shoulders is just pointless, the overall costume lacks shape & form (which kills the actor's physique), and yeah, the actor's look & 5 o'clock shadow don't help.

Not a fan.

It's not TOO bad. They had the whole problem where it looks bad with briefs, but also has looked bad in a totally different way when they didn't do briefs. 

The problem here is that it looks like a big blue onesie. The belt is trying to create a sense of a dividing line between top and bottom and is just in the wrong place.

Really, they needed to take some hints from some of their own designs like The Flash.  Those outfits aren't perfect, but as least nod to the idea of a top and a bottom.  Especially this new one:

 

Somehow Superman needed some division like that.  I know they don't want to do red pants (because they feel mostly blue is the Superman "branding"), but maybe as simple as a slightly darker shade of blue on the bottom would have done it.

And the poor guy gets saddled with an even heavier cape to shoot around than Melissa.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Kromm

[regularlyleaded]

Probably an unpopular opinion:  I like the Superman suit well enough, but I'm not buying the guy who is wearing the suit, Tyler Hoechlin*, as Superman. (* Not sure of the spelling of his last name. Apologies if it's wrong).

I remember when I first saw promo pictures of Henry Cavill dressed as Superman (before I'd even seen "Man of Steel") I thought, "Yep, that's Superman. Good casting". And even Tom Welling sans suit,  I recall thinking "Yes, that's a young Superman. Well cast." With this actor, even with the suit,  my impression of him as Superman is "Meh, It's  Comic Con cosplayer. Moving on..." I'm just not getting any of the excitement about the upcoming season and the intro of Superman that this promo picture is probably trying to engender.

Don't misunderstand. I think he's a handsome man, but as "Superman"? Based on appearance alone and even with what I consider a good superman suit, for me he's missing the mark. I have several reasons in mind why, but heck, maybe it's just because of the permanent 5 o'clock shadow that others have also noted (which explains why he's in Teen Wolf. Based on looks alone, I would absolutely buy that he's a werewolf....of course, I'm assuming he plays one on Teen Wolf. But I've never seen that show, so maybe he doesn't! Hehe). Either way, I'm sorry, show runners. That's a nice super suit, but as of right now I'm not buying this guy as Superman. At all. "Meh" is the best I can muster at the moment. (It also doesn't help that IMO Mehcad Brooks looks like he could bench press him. Superman should not look like someone that Jimmy Olsen could bench press )

Hopefully, Tyler H. is a good actor and can sell me this iteration of Superman, and if he also clicks with Melissa and the Supergirl cast, I can (mostly try to ;-) ignore that he doesn't conform to my mental image of a Superman.  And if not, well at least he's only in a few episodes....I hope.

Edited July 29, 2016 by regularlyleaded

[stealinghome]

3 hours ago, Kaoteek said:

the overall costume lacks shape & form (which kills the actor's physique),

Yeah, this is my biggest problem with the costume, and why I'm hoping that it's something about the pose/angle/photoshopping/photography of this picture as opposed to the suit itself. Whatever else, Hoechlin is a buff guy (albeit not hulkingly large like Cavill), but this suit makes him look totally UNbuff. Hopefully it will be better in action? It's just a trick of the camera right now?

I think it's clear that he was cast in an attempt to draw the Teen Wolf crowd (ugh), who will of course rave over Hoechlin even if he's terrible, but I wonder what will happen if the larger, general response to Hoechlin's Superman is neutral at best. I have to think they are eyeing a Superman tv show, but will they pursue it if he's not a hit?

regularlyleaded, it's not just you who's skeptical of Tyler Hoechlin as Superman. That he didn't audition for it is a big red flag for me. And it's annoying that the early marketing of Supergirl S2 seems to be as much about Superman as Supergirl--it makes the contrarian in me want to not like him (even though that's not his fault at all).

Edited July 29, 2016 by stealinghome