S04.E01: Two Swords

[matilda76]

I think it's premature to come to that conclusion. There's still time in the next episode for this to happen.

Sorry, I'm still not sure how to use this quote function...hopefully my post won't look too wonky. But anyway, what I meant was that I'm sorry that we won't see Sansa involved in longer-term plotting like there was in the book--multiple meetings with Ser Dontos over a period of weeks in the Godswood. Maybe it wasn't weeks; my book timelines are pretty hazy. Since the shizz flies in the next episode, everything will happen very quickly for Sansa. I'm foreseeing someone (Queen of Thornes? Ser Dontos?) telling her to run and that'll pretty much be that. But I do realize that for the show to resemble the books more closely on this plot point, they would've maybe had to get this going last season.

 

 

[joliefaire]

 

 

Sorry, I'm still not sure how to use this quote function..

 

 

 

matilda, to use the quote function, click the red " symbol, then a little box pops up saying 'quote this post' or somesuch.  Click that.  At that point, your cursor will begin blinking in the reply box right at the point where you should begin typing.  Don't scroll your cursor upward in the reply box or you'll end up putting your own words into the post you're trying to quote.  If all that makes sense.  :P

[yellowfred]

But anyway, what I meant was that I'm sorry that we won't see Sansa involved in longer-term plotting like there was in the book--multiple meetings with Ser Dontos over a period of weeks in the Godswood. Maybe it wasn't weeks; my book timelines are pretty hazy. Since the shizz flies in the next episode, everything will happen very quickly for Sansa. I'm foreseeing someone (Queen of Thornes? Ser Dontos?) telling her to run and that'll pretty much be that. 

I think it was probably several months, if not closer to a year.  One timeline I found (here) has them plotting for about 9 months.  I definitely agree with your point, though.  In the books, she started actively planning her escape a few months after she started being a prisoner and she didn't stop until she actually got out.  Even when she was going with the Tyrells' plan to marry her to Willas, her thoughts on it were basically that she'd go with whoever could get her out first.  

Also, I don't know how in character it would be for her to just run away with Dontos in the middle of the chaos, since she's not usually that impulsive.  

[GreyBunny]

I resent the missing of Thormund's big member jokes, he looked so grim in this episode.

Me too.  I resent his characterization.  In the books he's a laugh riot, on the show he's just an intense guy with a beard.

 

Didn't the Lannisters return Ned's sword to Robb with his body, so Robb was using Ned's Valyrian steel sword, Ice, which the Lannisters 'regained' after the Red Wedding?

No, after they beheaded Ned with his own sword, the Lannisters kept it.  Returning a family sword is a sign of respect and the Lannisters had no respect for any of the Starks.  They kept Ice and had it reforged into two new swords: "Oathkeeper" and "Widow's Wail." 

Robb's sword was just a regular sword: smaller (and more fitting for a battlefield) and not made of Valyrian steel.

Edited April 10, 2014 by GreyBunny

[sev]

^ As far s I remember, Ser Ilyn Payne had Ice from the time he carried out Ned's execution with it, until Tywin melted it. I guess Payne was the only one who could have had use for such a giant sword.

Edited April 10, 2014 by sev

[matilda76]

matilda, to use the quote function, click the red " symbol, then a little box pops up saying 'quote this post' or somesuch.  Click that.  At that point, your cursor will begin blinking in the reply box right at the point where you should begin typing.  Don't scroll your cursor upward in the reply box or you'll end up putting your own words into the post you're trying to quote.  If all that makes sense.  :P

Thanks joliefaire -- I was trying to figure out how I could select a snippet of someone's post without quoting their whole post -- and I failed. Still haven't figured that out yet! I could never figure it out at TWoP either, and since I mostly lurked there, I became too embarrassed over time to ask someone! Sorry to take up space with it here.

[mac123x]

Thanks joliefaire -- I was trying to figure out how I could select a snippet of someone's post without quoting their whole post -- and I failed

You can do it manually.  Copy/paste the section you want to quote into the Reply window.  Put [quoote] in front and [/quoote] at the end of the section, but spell "quote" correctly.

[joliefaire]

 I was trying to figure out how I could select a snippet of someone's post without quoting their whole post -- and I failed. Still haven't figured that out yet!

No problem.  To quote part of a post (which I'm now doing with your post) go thru the usual steps by clicking the " symbol, etc.  Once your cursor is blinking in the reply box, now scroll up into the post you're quoting, delete the parts you don't want there, but then you have to scroll back down til you're out of the quote box before you begin typing.  If you look very very carefully, you'll see that there actually is a box around the post you're quoting, its just so faint that its hardly visible, but its there.  You have to down and out of that quote box before you begin typing.

[ellystar]

I think it was probably several months, if not closer to a year.  One timeline I found (here) has them plotting for about 9 months.  I definitely agree with your point, though.  In the books, she started actively planning her escape a few months after she started being a prisoner and she didn't stop until she actually got out.  Even when she was going with the Tyrells' plan to marry her to Willas, her thoughts on it were basically that she'd go with whoever could get her out first.  

Also, I don't know how in character it would be for her to just run away with Dontos in the middle of the chaos, since she's not usually that impulsive.  

Thanks for posting that timeline, that's super awesome and helpful. The timeline has always confused me.

Maybe Dontos will tell her she needs to escape or else they will arrest (and eventually execute) her for killing Joffrey.

Edited April 10, 2014 by ellystar

[Tim Thomason]

Why does Tywin not "expect to see the Rock again" before he dies? It's not like the King's Hand is permanently chained to King's Landing (he proved that himself when he spent a good part of the War fighting battles elsewhere). And while he's a bit of a workaholic, does he not expect to retire at some point, after another twenty years or so?

We all know he won't live to see the Rock again, but he doesn't know that. It seems an odd statement to me.

[elzin]

Why does Tywin not "expect to see the Rock again" before he dies? It's not like the King's Hand is permanently chained to King's Landing (he proved that himself when he spent a good part of the War fighting battles elsewhere). And while he's a bit of a workaholic, does he not expect to retire at some point, after another twenty years or so?

We all know he won't live to see the Rock again, but he doesn't know that. It seems an odd statement to me.

I think he knows what a turd Joffrey is now and that he can't leave him to his own devices. His unfair hatred of Tyrion keeps him from seeing that Tyrion made a competent hand, so he thinks only he can keep things from falling apart. So he thinks he can never leave because it would turn into even more chaos.  And with a war, it's not like he can take Joffrey on a Casterley Rock family honeymoon.

 

[matilda76]

You have to down and out of that quote box before you begin typing.

Thank you! Think I've mastered it...

[matilda76]

Why does Tywin not "expect to see the Rock again" before he dies?

I think it's also because he's assuming, in keeping with the times, that he won't live to be an old, old man, one who could retire to his seat, whether it's because Joffrey's no longer king, or he simply decided to pass the title of Hand on to someone else for whatever reason. I'm guessing he's supposed to be 60, 65 at the oldest, and he's under no illusions that he could die tomorrow. Tywin, as arrogant and imperious as he is, is also utterly pragmatic...even concerning his own mortality. Although I'm sure he never saw an Elvis-style death coming...

[yellowfred]

I think it's also because he's assuming, in keeping with the times, that he won't live to be an old, old man, one who could retire to his seat, whether it's because Joffrey's no longer king, or he simply decided to pass the title of Hand on to someone else for whatever reason. 

Yeah, I think it's a mix of the fact that Tywin knows he's not the type to retire or let anyone else do the job for him and he knows that Joffrey's not the type of king that'll let him get away with taking a vacation ever.

Although I'm sure he never saw an Elvis-style death coming...

They never do.  

[Andromeda]

At least with the Thenns, we know what they eat. Most of the other wildlings, I'm a little confused about. I mean, it's not even winter yet, although, spoiler alert:

winter is coming

, and everything north of the wall is pretty much Narnia. I know Ygritt and Osha eat rabbits, but I have absolutely no idea what the rabbits eat. Snow, dirt, and the occasional frozen twig, I guess. The Thenns apparently realize that they are not living in anything resembling a sustainable ecosystem, and so they have decided to derive a significant percentage of their caloric intake from the one thing that they can probably count on there being a lot of: redshirts!

What I actually found most distracting about them was how cleanly shaven they were. I mean, those are some big, thick, bumpy, ritual scars they've got! You're really gonna shave over all that every day with a straight blade? I wonder if they have to spend a ridiculous amount of their before-battle time touching each other up and primping like a bunch of cannibal cave fops. "I don't look stubbly, do I?" "Oh, wait, just one... there, got it!" "All smooth?" "Oh, fabulously! Do me now!"

LOL!!! I Figured they were just bald genetically.

[sev]

In the episode Cersei says Pycelle smells like a dead cat. And we learn from Sansa, Catelyn's corpse has been thrown in the river -- Dead!Cat.

Intentional?

Edited April 11, 2014 by sev

[joliefaire]

HA!  Nice catch, I didn't even put that together!

[joliefaire]

Interesting infographic making the rounds, explaining how Oberyn is related to Dany, for viewers who were getting confused.

[Jalyn]

If they were looking for Dany's relation to Oberyn, it's overly complex, I would think. If they are just looking for all Oberyn's non-Dorne connections (and why he's pissed at each of them) I would think that it's overly simplistic. 

For instance, Jaime killed Aerys, Elia's father-in-law. Probably more importantly to Oberyn, he wasn't protecting Rhaegar's wife and children when they were murdered as the Kingsguard should have. (Hmmm, has Jaime ever talked about that or am I projecting him feeling guilty that he wasn't there to protect them as part of my personal whitewash of the character? After all, they weren't going to blow up Kingslanding.)

Tywin is the Clegane's overlord and ultimately responsible for their actions (and someone that Oberyn is much more likely to care about than the Hound!) As a note, we have lost the other guilty party, right? (Wasn't that Amory Lorch?)

If he gives a damn about Ned Stark, it's probably more about his support for Robert than being Lyanna's brother - no matter what he thinks or knows of R+L.

Wait... Did Elia only have one kid according to the show? (Gregor "Killed Elia Martell and her baby" rather than "her children") Presumably that would mean that we'd lose Rhanerys?

[Eegah]

Oberyn mentioned two kids.

[yellowfred]

Hmmm, has Jaime ever talked about that or am I projecting him feeling guilty that he wasn't there to protect them as part of my personal whitewash of the character? After all, they weren't going to blow up Kingslanding.

He had a dream about Rhaegar telling him that he was supposed to protect his wife and children, to which Jaime responds that he never thought his father would hurt them, so I don't think it's any stretch to believe that he feels guilty about it.

[ChillinLikeSerIlyn]

Tywin is the Clegane's overlord and ultimately responsible for their actions (and someone that Oberyn is much more likely to care about than the Hound!) As a note, we have lost the other guilty party, right? (Wasn't that Amory Lorch?)

In the books, The Mountain smashed the baby against a wall then raped/killed Elia, while Amory Lorch stabbed the daughter a bunch of times. However, by the time Oberyn comes around Vargo Hoat had already fed Lorch to his bear, so Tywin only had Gregor to pin it on if I recall correctly. 

[joliefaire]

Everybody ready for some wedding pie?

7 hours, 39 minutes to go! 

[Mel Bushman]

I'm going to miss him. I wish he could die in every episode.

[sev]

There is a Next Episode Previews thread...

[mad_typist]

I'm going to miss him. I wish he could die in every episode.

Tonight's episode will be the anti-Red Wedding. Hope people record reaction videos, so we can see the various outbursts of joy as the moment happens.

[joliefaire]

I saw over at another board that someone will be recording his unsullied group of friends tonight.  Hopefully, lots of others will be doing the same, and then some wizard on YouTube will put it all together.

A nice thing I read is that Jack Gleeson, who's given us such a wonderful monster to hate, is already enrolled at Trinity, where he's a Trinity Scholar, described by someone as 'crazy smart.'  Also that it's considered 'very bad form' there to acknowledge or stalk celebraties around the grounds.  So, hopefully, he's now living a nearly-normal life, pursuing the life he's always wanted.  He and his dad are also involved with a charity helping to restore Haiti to some more tolerable living conditions, and he'll use his Joffrey fame to help raise funds for that.  So, a nice ending for a splendid young actor.

Meanwhile, Joffrey, turn purple and die, you little ragwood pin-dick!  :P

[Danny Franks]

I'm going to miss him. I wish he could die in every episode.

Here's a valid point, though. Joffrey will leave a big void in the show, when he departs. People love to hate him so, so much, that even if he only has a few lines, it's enough for videos and captioned pics to pop up all over the internet.

Without him? Who takes his place? Not really Tywin, because it seems like he's more the magnificent bastard type of villain. Not really Cersei, because she's too drunk and really not a threat. Joffrey is really the only moustache-twirling-ly evil character in the show (except Littlefinger, but he's absent, and the actor is garbage anyway).

Edited April 13, 2014 by Danny Franks

[Helena Dax]

Ramsay?

[joliefaire]

^^  And, we know there's been so much focus on King's Landing because fan fav Tyrion is there.  The focus will begin to shift now.  We'll get Tyrion in the dungeons and related scenes, but no more grand throne room and bedroom scenes.  And once Tyrion begins his odyssey, there'll be all kinds of villians swirling around him.  Gonna be fun to finally see all that, after so many years, can't wait!

[John Potts]

FINALLY got around to seeing this (got all the DVDs for my birthday). I'd forgotten how funny it could be at times

- Jamie's little wave with his Golden Hand

- Jon commenting that Janos Slynt must have been a pretty crappy Goldcloak if he got exiled to the Wall

- The Hound's real commitment to swearing and his stare down with Polliver

- Oberyn's whole DGAF attitude!

On ‎07‎/‎04‎/‎2014 at 5:41 PM, ellystar said:

I love love love the recasting of Daario. Fantastic decision. As well as the casting for Oberyn and Ellaria.

I can take him or leave him (though he's more memorable than Mk 1 Daario). But while I totally buy he would engage in dick waving contests, I don't buy that Grey Worm would (and not just because he lacks one!). Danny should know better than to be taken in by a pretty boy, though, even if she is only meant to be a teenager.