Spoilers and Spoiler Speculation: Benchmarking

[Eolivet]

Just finished the last episode (I know -- I dragged my feet because I really didn't want to see it, and I'll do the same this week) and I'm left with a few thoughts.

 

My first is "This is way too obvious." I mean, the meta, the anvils, the flashing police lights. But I began to wonder if that was actually...supposed to be kind. Like, we are being warned that something bad will happen. Abandon hope, all ye who live here, etc.

 

My second thought is that if, for some absolutely bizarre reason, Derek lives, what on earth was the point of the flashback/"I'm so happy, let's have another kid" scene? It literally serves no point or purpose (unless Derek runs away, as he said he wouldn't several episodes ago -- but then he just looks cruel and I don't buy that). The logical conclusion has to be death or that scene was meaningless. The point has to be Derek won't get all of that with Meredith anymore, that Meredith's life is about to change irrevocably. A reminder of what they have and what they will lose. It just makes absolutely no sense otherwise.

 

My other random, terrible thought (inspired by the episode discussion thread) is what if Derek isn't taken to the hospital at all -- but is somehow in the vicinity of the explosion, seems fine, is taken home by the police, and then suddenly collapses/dies at home/in Meredith's arms. That would tie back to Amelia's "watch the person you love die right in front of you" line from a couple episodes ago. Hopefully, my imagination is far more melodramatic than Shonda's.

 

I'm just struggling to think of anything else that could happen on Thursday other than Derek's death. Here's hoping Shonda is far more creative than I've given her credit for.

[java23]

If Derek doesn't die, everything from the last three episodes has been pointless...him coming home, wanting more, realizing he has everything, Amelia's speech, Webber's odd speech.

[MerDerFan4Ever]

I have a new theory about what will happen after reading that casting side for 11X24...and for the first time in 2 days it's got my thinking Derek won't die after all!

I think the couple in that side is Meredith and Derek! Didn't one of the sides for 11X22 or 11X23 mention one of the main characters being pregnant? I either read that here or on Twitter. I have read so much speculation that I can't remember where I read what! Lol

I think Derek ends up in a coma after 11X21 and I think Meredith finds out she is pregnant. That could be one of the reasons she is vomiting in the promo. There seems to be a significant time jump in at least 11X22 and maybe 11x23 too! They could have her pregnancy play out via time jumps in 11X22 and 11X23 to avoid another season long pregnancy arc, and have her deliver in the finale (11X24)...right after Derek wakes up out of the coma!!

This would explain why both of those people in the side (the couple) were in hospital beds. Yes, it could be Richard and Catherine but honestly it did not read like them to me. This couple started kissing before the pastor even finished...that so reads like MerDer to me!! Plus, why would Richard AND Carherine be in hospital beds???

The only thing I question about my theory is this...it seems that this would happen at the end of the finale. Why release something so huge in a casting side?

It's probably just wishful thinking on my part anyway! Lol

[Greysaddict]

Lakelover- was it you who had the theory of the season premiere foreshadowing this epsidode?  I've been mulling that over and went back and read some recaps of the premiere and there are a lot of parellels there.  i won't bore everyone here with my crazy talk...at this point I'm just going to sit back and wait for tomorrow.  

 

I highly doubt that wedding in the sides in MerDer.  It makes no sense to be them on many levels.  Seems to be Richard & Catherine (borrrinng).

 

Seperately, i know they have been tight with filming as they near the end...but they won't be done shooting the finale until 9 days before the episode is scheduled to air.  That is crazy tight.  

Edited April 22, 2015 by Greysaddict

[MerDerFan4Ever]

I meant a renewing of their vows. Not an actual wedding ceremony. Forgot to add that. It would be like another "candle house" moment. Them re-committing to each other. Just a thought.

[upperco]

Thought Dempsey was done shooting for the season. Even if Derek lives and has scenes in the finale, wouldn't they already have been shot? 

[windsprints]

Thought Dempsey was done shooting for the season. Even if Derek lives and has scenes in the finale, wouldn't they already have been shot? 

I'd think so. I saw a picture of PD in the middle east for racing training on tumblr somewhere last night so he's not here filming right now. I guess its possible to return in time for 24 but the interviews sure made it seem like he was done for the year.

 

I agree with photo fox, I thought it read like it could be Richard and Catherine. Why are they in hospital beds? I know it says Pastor and all the dialog is a wedding ceremony but it just seems off to me. I'm not convinced its a wedding (or even a pastor) but don't have any guesses on what it could be other than some kind of memorial service.

[stopthestatic]

I definitely agree with whoever said that there's probably tons of articles and interviews with Shonda - or possibly some of the cast - being held until after the show airs tomorrow night. It's odd to me how no one in the media has been mentioning what's been going on. There's no way Ausiello wouldn't have taken the opportunity to mention the Derek storyline or even the behind the scenes drama (we know he loves his gossip) in today's Ask Ausiello if he didn't have a piece ready for tomorrow night. It's just too much of an easy target.

 

Personally, I can't wait til tomorrow at 9 pm so we can just know what there is to know already. My brain hurts from the speculation and I'm also tired of changing my mind every hour about what I think is going to happen. (As of this hour, I don't think they'll kill him and my mind is gravitating towards him being in a coma or braindead). 

 

The side of the pastor definitely could be Catherine and Richard. Like someone mentioned, Patrick said he's done filming for the season and they're just casting the pastor role now so it can't be MerDer renewing their vows.

 

Is anyone else absolutely dreading the three new interns coming in at the end of the season? Ugh

[Eolivet]

So, Canada does not get the episode tonight? Someone on Tumblr is saying it airs at 6PM EST tomorrow for them, but I don't know if that's Canada or not.

[LakeLover]

So, Canada does not get the episode tonight? Someone on Tumblr is saying it airs at 6PM EST tomorrow for them, but I don't know if that's Canada or not.

 

AFAIK, Canada has been back to Thursday nights for some time. It believe it airs 7 p.m. EDT, 6 p.m. ADT on Thursday. Now, I'd like to find an early feed :)

[funnygirl]

 

Is anyone else absolutely dreading the three new interns coming in at the end of the season? Ugh

*raises hand*

I'm sick of this show adding two, three, four more characters after someone leaves (assuming Derek is gone). The show has a hard enough time coming up with decent stories for most of the current crop, at this point I feel like more new interns are unnecessary. It's not like we're really seeing the doctors teach anymore. They can just put three random extras in scrubs, give them no lines, and make them stand around during rounds and surgery. Enough with the fresh blood. No one really cares and they don't fill the void left by other characters anyway. 

Edited April 23, 2015 by funnygirl

[upperco]

I smell multiple departures. 

[Deanie87]

i don't want new interns but can we keep the hot paramedic that I just saw on Twitter? Apparently he will be in the finale.

[windsprints]

I definitely agree with whoever said that there's probably tons of articles and interviews with Shonda - or possibly some of the cast - being held until after the show airs tomorrow night. It's odd to me how no one in the media has been mentioning what's been going on. There's no way Ausiello wouldn't have taken the opportunity to mention the Derek storyline or even the behind the scenes drama (we know he loves his gossip) in today's Ask Ausiello if he didn't have a piece ready for tomorrow night. It's just too much of an easy target.

 

Agreed. We know that the press was on set and we haven't seen any interviews and there's barely been a peep about Grey's. 

I smell multiple departures.

 

I wouldn't be shocked. Any thoughts on who?

[stopthestatic]

If there are more exits, I wouldn't be surprised if they wrote Richard and Stephanie (I hope) out as well. 

 

[LakeLover]

If there are more exits, I wouldn't be surprised if they wrote Richard and Stephanie (I hope) out as well. 

 

 

I agree with Richard. I think the production team really likes Stephanie because remember, there are new interns who need older doctors to have sex with ;) Alex/Justin is contracted until next year, and although neither are my favories, I would hope Callie and Arizona get happier stories.

[stopthestatic]

I agree with Richard. I think the production team really likes Stephanie because remember, there are new interns who need older doctors to have sex with ;) Alex/Justin is contracted until next year, and although neither are my favories, I would hope Callie and Arizona get happier stories.

 

People have speculated they're only giving Stephanie a load of screentime because they're getting ready to send her off though like they did with Leah last season. Which hopefully is correct, because she's kind of the worst character ever.

[Deanie87]

I hope it's not Richard. I would much rather Owen and Amelia find another hospital someplace. If it is Richard then my interest in Maggie will be gone so I hope she goes too.

[windsprints]

I hope it's not Richard. I would much rather Owen and Amelia find another hospital someplace. If it is Richard then my interest in Maggie will be gone so I hope she goes too.

Of course its possible to leave even though he signed but James Pickens, Jr. has a contract through season 12 too.

People have speculated they're only giving Stephanie a load of screen time because they're getting ready to send her off though like they did with Leah last season.

That would explain her lack of actual storyline even with all the screen time.

Edited April 23, 2015 by windsprints

[LakeLover]

I hope it's not Richard. I would much rather Owen and Amelia find another hospital someplace. If it is Richard then my interest in Maggie will be gone so I hope she goes too.

 

I like Richard, but I think he's more easily expendable. He can get married to Catherine and make guest appearances if he wants.

 

I've actually grown to like Maggie, which is a real surprise to me, because I didn't care for her at all. I think they've done a great job of integrating her character into the existing cast. I'm not a fan of Jo, but the actress seems nice, and maybe she is the one for Alex, although I'm "meh" about that relationship.

 

Owen and Amelia can both leave and never come back. Owen seems to have outlived his time on the show, frankly, and I never cared for Amelia.

[Greysaddict]

I smell multiple departures.

Agreed, I think we'll see a few people gone by the end of season. I think, as far as we know, Arizona, Owen, Amelia, Maggie, Jackson, April, Jo and Stephanie are all not officially signed for season 12. I'd be happy to lose Owen (sorry KMK but Owen has no point), Amelia and Stephanie....which seems like a pretty popular opinion around here.

I don't think Richard is going anywhere. And I think Arizona, Jackson and April are pretty safe.

[AnitaM86]

That would explain her lack of actual storyline even with all the screen time.

Did Stephanie ever had a storyline? I know I can't expect miracles from these writers but she was purposeless since the beginning.

 

I would much rather Owen and Amelia find another hospital someplace. If it is Richard then my interest in Maggie will be gone so I hope she goes too.

Maggie can stay. She is decent. Owen can burn in the zombie apocalypse. He's another one that's purposeless. He's just there and not in a good way.

[Greysaddict]

Agreed. We know that the press was on set and we haven't seen any interviews and there's barely been a peep about Grey's. 

Question- I'm not too familiar with how the media/press sites work. So, they all seemed to be on set the first day of filming 11x21 (Mid March). Do you think they were given the full story then and had to hold on to it until the epsidoe airs? That's a really long time considering how many people from each company must have seen the story. The actual reporter, editors, assistants, probably some higher ups if it's a huge story, etc. If Derek does die, that's. HUGE thing to hold on to. I know they probably had to sign NDAs and such, but seems like something could have leaked really easily.

I don't doubt the reporters have their stories all ready to go for tomorrow night...just curious how it works.

[windsprints]

Episode 22 filmed scenes at a cemetery, convention center and beach. (Credit: @JustinChambersOnline)

[LakeLover]

Question- I'm not too familiar with how the media/press sites work. So, they all seemed to be on set the first day of filming 11x21 (Mid March). Do you think they were given the full story then and had to hold on to it until the epsidoe airs? That's a really long time considering how many people from each company must have seen the story. The actual reporter, editors, assistants, probably some higher ups if it's a huge story, etc. If Derek does die, that's. HUGE thing to hold on to. I know they probably had to sign NDAs and such, but seems like something could have leaked really easily.

I don't doubt the reporters have their stories all ready to go for tomorrow night...just curious how it works.

 

 

I'm not sure, but they may not have known until very recently if Derek does die. There was a lot more going on in that episode.

 

Then, there's this - 11x22 filmed at a cemetary, beach (we saw those pics somewhere), and convention center.

 

https://twitter.com/filmcrewLA/status/591062404131205120

[AnitaM86]

I don't doubt the reporters have their stories all ready to go for tomorrow night...just curious how it works.

GA-wise, I haven't seen any major leaks in huge stories by the press. Perhaps the reporters that were there were specifically chosen for being careful and not leaking any report beforehand. 

 

I still think it was odd none reported interviewing PD but perhaps that was a sign of something. 

 

Episode 22 filmed scenes at a cemetery, convention center and beach. (Credit: @JustinChambersOnline)

Channeling Seth Cohen: oy humbug.

[Greysaddict]

Episode 22 filmed scenes at a cemetery, convention center and beach. (Credit: @JustinChambersOnline)

I am so curious as to what is going on at the beach. I'm just gonna bury my head in the sand about the cemetery stuff.

[LakeLover]

The picture I saw looked like Meredith and the two kids on the beach.

[windsprints]

I think, as far as we know, Arizona, Owen, Amelia, Maggie, Jackson, April, Jo and Stephanie are all not officially signed for season 12

 

I haven't seen any articles about their contract statuses. I can't see why they would sign Caterina and Kelly for only a year though. I would think they were signed to at least 2 seasons, probably more, when made series regulars.

 

I have no idea how the press would work but this round of it seems different. In the past we always had interviews and articles before the episode aired and a few teases (generally via twitter) that they were coming. I agree its weirdly silent as someone mentioned above.

 

[stopthestatic]

Honestly, when trying to make sense of the filming locations the only solution is that Derek really is dead, in a coma or braindead. I think there's no chance that Derek isn't one of those things. Even with Patrick's pre-taped scenes, him being alive and fine just doesn't add up in any equation. Now the only question is which one is it? The cemetery could be something else. It's unlikely but a possibility.

 

My theory is that 1122 could be like the season 6 premiere which covered the first 40 days after George's dead. So we see her at the funeral. We see her go on vacation and take the kids to the beach. We see her at the doctor's where Alex visits her, getting an ultrasound for baby #3. We hear a mention of her just having gotten back from visiting Cristina. Along the way we hear and see mentions of big stuff happening to other characters. The episode ends with her returning to GSMH like nothing even happened. That's the most likely scenario.

Edited April 23, 2015 by stopthestatic

[windsprints]

I think she is at a hospital in San Diego. Maybe she temporarily moves away or is on extended leave?

[KnitsWithRaceCars]

Then, there's this - 11x22 filmed at a cemetary, beach (we saw those pics somewhere), and convention center.

 

https://twitter.com/filmcrewLA/status/591062404131205120

 

Crap.  I'd already decided that I'm not watching tomorrow's episode when it airs, and this really solidifies my decision.

 

As much as I don't want it to be right, I have a sinking feeling that stopthestatic's scenario is pretty much right.

 

So it seems that last week's episode was my last unless they bring back Derek as a ghost.  I'm glad to be free from the show and Shondaland, but brokenhearted about Derek dying.  As I told someone yesterday, at least after this year, it will save me the $30-$40 per year that I was spending on the Grey's DVDs.  I can spend that money on yarn for knitting instead!

Edited April 23, 2015 by KnitsWithRaceCars

[stopthestatic]

I think she is at a hospital in San Diego. Maybe she temporarily moves away or is on extended leave?

 

It's possible. I just don't know why she'd go to San Diego of all places. There has to be some reason for that?

 

Ugh. I also just know that if Derek dies they're not even going to mention his other family besides Amelia, or Addison (his spouse for 11 years). That's so freakin' annoying to me. I almost want him to die at this point so I can just be done with this show forever after May 14th.

Edited April 23, 2015 by stopthestatic

[windsprints]

I'm going to guess we won't see any actual funeral if he dies. The time jumps could take care of that and the filming at the cemetery could be as simple as seeing Meredith putting flowers there once.  None of the family being there is one reason I usually find tv funerals pretty stupid. 

[Featherhat]

I wouldn't put it passed them for Derek to come back for a Denny or Kyle Chandler type Mergatory "closure" scene in S12. I'm sure PD would like it was stupid, but it could have been part of his exit agreement.

 

Right now I'm going to be way more surprised if he actually survives.

[java23]

Shonda doesn't do funerals anymore. We never saw any type of memorial for any of the scores of people she has killed off.

I am wondering if the cemetary scene could be Jackson and April, at baby Samuel's grave. That would be emotional.

Sarah tweeted they were out on location too. 

[LakeLover]

From Caterina Scorcese interview posted today. Either she's a great liar, or...I don't even know what to think. Maybe Derek's ghost haunts SGMWGSMH and screws with her head ;)

 

http://www.thetvjunkies.com/greys-anatomy-caterina-scorsone-interview/

 

CS: Their relationship has always been and will always be complicated. They love each other so much. I think Derek is probably the most important person in Amelia’s life, ever, and he was with her during the defining tragedy of her childhood. They went through it together. They both studied neurosurgery. They have so much in common and yet they are of a slightly different temperament. They’ve got this really interesting energy and push and pull because they are so similar and yet there are things about them that are different as well. So yeah I think they are going to continue to have a power struggle. But, like we saw in an episode a few weeks ago, they were arguing with each other about the medicine and then when they got home they were sitting together on the back deck and being such a huge support for one another.

[windsprints]

I am wondering if the cemetary scene could be Jackson and April, at baby Samuel's grave. That would be emotional.

Sarah tweeted they were out on location too.

 

Great thought. They've been shoved aside and didn't get hardly any followup to their baby dying. It would be nice to see them end the season having them get some closure.

 

ETA: Sarah posted an instagram pic of her getting her hair done saying she's on location with Caterina, Kelly and Ellen.

Edited April 23, 2015 by windsprints

[AnitaM86]

Great thought. They've been shoved aside and didn't get hardly any followup to their baby dying. It would be nice to see them end the season having them get some closure.

Ep. 22 does have an April/Jackson description, so could be. I still don't believe that Meredith would be one to visit the grave of anyone. (Lexie's? Ellis?)

 

From Caterina Scorcese interview posted today.

 

When was it done? She talks about the 11x18 and this is three episodes later. Perhaps there was something she doesn't know? (Although I loved her answer and would like to see more of those Shepherd siblings, not the petty childish ones).

 

ETA: Sarah posted an instagram pic of her getting her hair done saying she's on location with Caterina, Kelly and Ellen.

 

So many location shoots. Huh.

[Bobbie2120]

I think like someone said above wouldn't Kristen or TV guide at least hint at Derek leaving. I can't believe someone would not have spoiled this big of a story line. The Diva stuff is not a spoiler I think someone would have posted about a huge death of a beloved actor not this divia crap

[windsprints]

When was it done? She talks about the 11x18 and this is three episodes later.

 

My guess is that it was done the day press was on set at the end of March and that she was speaking of the episodes were were about to see.

[Greysaddict]

I don't think that Caterina interview means that Derek lives.  However, as of this morning I have fallen back on the side of Derek living (as opposed to dying).  Every single cast and crew member is promoting this episode like crazy on twitter.  The fact that they are all be so hyped seems odd if this episode was in fact the un-announced end of Derek Shepherd.  

 

Last year was different with the hype around Sandra's last episodes since it was known she was leaving.  

[Bobbie2120]

True and they say its a insta classic. If Derek dies not going to be a classic eppie

[Tuleh2]

 

Every single cast and crew member is promoting this episode like crazy on twitter.  The fact that they are all be so hyped seems odd if this episode was in fact the un-announced end of Derek Shepherd.

This show is their livelihood. If they're told to tweet, they'll tweet. Regardless of how they feel about what's happening behind the scenes or whether they feel it's in good taste or not.

[Greysaddict]

first hint of a press spoiler?  Liz Rafferety (she coveres a lof of Grey's) from TVG posted this on twitter earlier today:

 

It's a bad week for Dereks on TV. http://tvgd.co/1GmlNZW #DWTS #GreysAnatomy #TGIT

 

https://twitter.com/LizRaftery_TVG/status/591252280218939392

 

The link is just about Derek Hough from Dancing With The Stars and makes no mention of Derek Shepherd...but seems like she does know something.  Or maybe just speculating like the rest of us.  

Edited April 23, 2015 by Greysaddict

[windsprints]

This show is their livelihood. If they're told to tweet, they'll tweet. Regardless of how they feel about what's happening behind the scenes or whether they feel it's in good taste or not.

 

I also think as actors they can think something is fantastic tv even if its heartbreaking for fans.

 

ABC tweeted this. The fact that dead George is included doesn't seem to bode well for Derek.

[Bobbie2120]

I don't think the George pic mans anything they have Izzy I there too

I have to wonder if PD did not take anytime off this year if we would still think he was dying

[Eolivet]

There's also the possibility it happens at the end of the episode. Having lived through this once before on Downton Abbey, I remember scouring tweets and interviews, looking for any clues. The actors were pretty upbeat or vague ("there's laughter and tears") and one member of the press who saw it early tweeted another cast member to congratulate them on "such an enjoyable episode." I thought there was no way that could happen if there was a death, but maybe people are just desensitized to it now.

 

It's why I hate the "surprise death" with a fiery passion, since there's usually (as there is here) some forewarning among the fans, and it's inevitably accompanied by a note of self-congratulation by the creator/writer once it airs. Newsflash: This is the 21st century, the Internet exists and fans expect this stuff now: please don't pretend like you fooled anyone. Just say an actor is leaving and write them a good ending (whatever that means to the creator/writer). I am SO tired of shows trying to "shock" me. Honestly, I'd be more shocked if they didn't try to shock me anymore.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Eolivet

[java23]

I keep going back and forth daily, dead or alive.

But the point that I keep going back to...being alive is not shocking nor devastating. 

If he is alive, not sure that is a big deal. Why would we need to be prepared to find out he doesn't die lol

[cam3150]

Shonda just tweeted that they had the Grey's finale table read yesterday. I guess PD could have pre-filmed scenes but we know he's not even in the country right now right? I know he tweeted on 4/9 that he was filming Grey's that day but he also tweeted that same day that he was headed to England for I assume a race thing.  That was just 2 weeks ago. I guess they could be running pretty tight on their film times but it seems that they would have already filmed tonight's ep before 4/9.  Or maybe I know nothing about how TV shows work.

 

I will be devastated if Derek actually dies. I am hoping he's in a coma, even through the finale, and somehow he is able to make a recovery by next season. He could have easily pre-filmed coma scenes.  Even if he is not in every episode any more, that's better than him being dead. I started watching this show because of PD and I stayed because of Derek Shepherd.  

 

This does have all the hallmarks of a "Grey's is killing off a major character" storyline but maybe their idea of epic is Derek being in a coma? That could be dramatic, especially if he dies a few times in between but is brought back.  But how does that explain the police showing up? They wouldn't show up to tell Meredith he's in a coma would they?.  Ugh, I am just so worried, I am doing anything I can to  talk myself into him NOT dying.  

 

I just read the Page Six story and it just indicates that PD won't be on as much. It says nothing about him being killed off the show entirely.  That has to mean something, right????? It is odd that there seems to be NOTHING in the media about DS being killed off the show when everything about the show indicates that he will be. It just seems too obvious. Often, character deaths are out of left field while (outside of Josh Charles / The Good Wife) actors leaving are announced in advance.  It just seems there would be SOMETHING in the media about this.

 

I guess we'll at least know more after tonight. I'm scared.