S02.E20: Scars

[xqueenfrostine]

I've never liked how Skye treats May. She's always seemed disrespectful to her for some reason

She was definitely like that during season 1, but their relationship warmed a lot this season which is part of why that interaction between the two of them bothered me so much. The S.O.-rookie agent relationship had been warm and almost motherly by May standards, and had been one of my favorite parts of season 2. And I say that as someone who hated Skye for all of Season 1 (she's still not my favorite, but I thawed toward her in the first half of the season. We'll see if that sticks). May was given just the right attitude toward Skye, positive and supportive without being fawning like Coulson is toward her. We saw a bit of that during May and Skye's second conversation when May said that she wasn't talking to Jiaying instead of Gonzales because she didn't think she could be objective either, but it wasn't enough to wash away the bad taste I had in my mouth after their first confrontation. It was like Skye forgot that May probably saved her life when she called Skye to warn her that Gonzales's team was coming and told her where she could escape from behind the parameter fence.

[Sakura12]

I think Skye's been kind of manipulated by her parents into thinking SHIELD isn't going to be nice to powered people. She's seen first hand that they are not. Plus she was feeling attacked with Coulson and May saying how dangerous they were, when she is part of the they. IMO, they were all acting like smug assholes in that scene. 

 

Skye's torn between her friend family and her birth family. She found her real home with the Inhumans but it was SHIELD that opened up their home to her. Being with the Inhumans and her mother has put her on their side, but I do think she will find out what her mother did and go back to Shield. 

 

I still think Bobbi would've been the better choice to talk to Jaiying, she doesn't have a problem with either side and she never would compared their scars. Which was a stupid thing to say, getting shot is not same as being experimented on then ripped apart piece by piece. That was the worst thing you could say to her. 

[MisterGlass]

Yes, it was an underwhelming play for common ground.  I'm still happy Gonzles made an attempt to find common ground, though, especially with the gift.

 

 

Is it accepted that Gonzales : Inhumans ::  Stryker : Mutants?

Not unless Gonzales has a basement lab and is experimenting on Inhuman children.  Gonzales is scared of them and biased, but he can be persuaded not to act on his biases by attacking first. 

 

 

Jiaying made a call to start the war based on what Gonzales was saying to her.

The call was made before the quinjets landed.  Cal was already juiced up and ready to be handed off, smiling like the crazy person he is.

[VCRTracking]

 

(Ron Burgundy voice) Well that escalated quickly!

 

They really set up that Jiaying was going to be the reasonable one so that was a nice turn.

 

 I don't blame Kara for being mad that Bobbi let HYDRA brainwash her even though she was undercover. I have a feeling Kara's not making it past the finale.

 

Love the Coulson, Hunter and Fitz bromance.

[sinkwriter]

 

Love the Coulson, Hunter and Fitz bromance.

 

One of my favorite parts.  :)   "We really have been spending too much time together."  Heeee.

 

(And no! Keep having scenes together! I love it.)

[sinkwriter]

I totally cracked up when Cal broke Jiaying's table and then apologized and said, "Was that old? It looks like it was really old." Heh. He's insane, but really entertaining.

Edited May 7, 2015 by sinkwriter

[MDKNIGHT]

As far as the Index thing goes, it didn't seem like a big deal in this past episode when they Indexed Lincoln. Coulson asked him about it and Lincoln said it was just a lot of questions.

 

Again I bring up history. The Nazis would ask good German citizens "harmless" questions. They'd start with things like your name your parents names where were you born and they'd work their way to do you know any Jews, do you know where they live?  I'm not kidding.   A whole lot of people were sent to their deaths on the strength of what regular people thought were something like a census questionnaire.   I think it is likely that if something like the Inhumans really occurred that there would be many abuses of civil liberties.  Until Sky mommy's killing Olmos they hadn't done anything illegal ecsept maybe harboring a fugitive i.e. Cal.  SHIELD (or anybody else) doesn't actually have the right to bother these people. Now there is going to be a war which wouldn't have started if Shield hadn't spooked the inhumans in the first place.

[Glory]

I know a lot of people don't think Dichen Lachman is the best actress, but I think she's amazing. She's played this character perfectly since day 1. Equal amounts of sincerity towards Skye as her daughter and equal amounts of ruthless leader under a veneer of peaceful non-violence. I love it. I love her. Jiyang and Cal have quickly become my favorite characters and I was not a fan of Cal at the beginning. 

 

I absolutely loved the confrontation with Gonzalez and I saw the set up coming when she said her people would not follow her into war. She found a way to MAKE them follow and while a war might have been avoided, it might not have. As others have said, SHIELD came in ready to use force. I don't blame her for taking the initiative and giving SHIELD what they (to her eyes) must have so obviously wanted. 

 

I'll be interested to see how Skye handles this.

 

As for Bobbie - I really hope she kicks 33's ass and then Ward's ass. Big time. 

 

If Mac leaves, I will be very sad. First Tripp and now him? The eye candy will definitely be missing on this show if all we have left is Hunter. 

[Chaos Theory]

Again I bring up history. The Nazis would ask good German citizens "harmless" questions. They'd start with things like your name your parents names where were you born and they'd work their way to do you know any Jews, do you know where they live? I'm not kidding. A whole lot of people were sent to their deaths on the strength of what regular people thought were something like a census questionnaire. I think it is likely that if something like the Inhumans really occurred that there would be many abuses of civil liberties. Until Sky mommy's killing Olmos they hadn't done anything illegal ecsept maybe harboring a fugitive i.e. Cal. SHIELD (or anybody else) doesn't actually have the right to bother these people. Now there is going to be a war which wouldn't have started if Shield hadn't spooked the inhumans in the first place.

And it isn't just indexing. Didn't a lot of these powered people have Shield agents basically as keepers? I remember the fire guy in season 1 (around the time we found out Skye was spying on Shield) had shield agents watching him. Don't remember why though. There is no way that this stops at indexing and blood samples. It never does.

How long before the sheer number of Inhumans worry the new council enough to decide that they need to be contained "for the public good"?

Edited May 7, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[FurryFury]

I loved the Jiyang reveal, the character has become so much more interesting in mere seconds. Her scenes with Cal and gonzalez were great, too. I have to say, at the start of this season, I've never expected to enjoy this show as much as I am enjoying it now. Basically everything has improved. I even liked Hunter (seriously, his drawing of Raina was the funniest thing ever. Reminded me of the pilot with Maria Hill and Coulson, too).

[Rocket]

A tense episode put me on edge. Skye has been wanting to find and be part of a family all her life, now she has one and a community she belongs too so I find it normal that she is trying to protect what she just found when talking to May. Unfortunately she did not think it all the way thur and sounded like she was now looking down on her SHELD teammates when I'm sure that's not the case and that she will be conflicted in the extreme between the two sides. In the confrontation with May in previews there is no way that May can do anything to Skye in a situation like that unless Skye holds back a huge amount. Skye has already show the ability to basically send a fairly powerful bomb shockwave powerful enough to deflect bullets in a wide area cone. The only reason Bobbie is not dead or in a hospital still recovering is the Trope in movies and TV that shockwaves don't do that much damage to people who can be knocked back when in reality shockwaves do a a lot of damage to humans. 

I could see Skye knocking May back as soft as she is able to do, May goes off doubles back and takes Skye by surprise as the way May wins. 

 

Side note about Avengers movie tiny spoiler effect lots of words

Nuclear launch codes have never been on the net or a hackable computer network the whole system is set up originally from 1950's technology where there was no network period and they worked very hard to make the system immune to electronic attack afterwards by keeping it a non networked system. They are not actually launch codes to begin with, the codes are to release the nuclear bomb detonator so the bomb will explode when it gets to target. Missiles require both the two guys with keys in the silos and probably two more in the separate missile control room to all turn keys to launch the missiles. The code just tells them they authorized to launch when given the command by a human to launch.  No the codes cannot be changed fast as they are being carried around in secure cases with probably one or two other sets in vaults. Changes in codes on the bombs probably requires someone to carry the old code and new code to the locations the bombs are. Second even at the maximum weapon numbers of the cold war we only had enough bombs on both sides to kill most of the people in Russia and the US and parts of Europe.  Now ofter both sides have gotten rid of most of their bombs we can only get most of the top 1000 towns in each others countries assuming we ignored all military targets. Not a world ending weapon Ultron would probably ignored the bombs or sent his minions to steal them as I'm sure Ultron would find redoing the nuclear triggers easier than trying to fake a legitimate launch order with the militaries on high alert against attempts to do so. Now for a terrorist group that got it's hand on a bomb doing a new nuclear trigger without the codes would be very hard as triggers are very sensitive devices with tiny margins of errors do it wrong and all you get is a dirty bomb as the explosives go off in wrong sequence so no nuclear explosion. Despite the hype during the cold war as you can tell with Iran making nuclear weapons requires country level resources and years to make a bomb. Only movie and cartoon super scientists and evil robots can do with less access to resources. My father actually was a manager at the US's nuclear trigger plant, he did not tell me but when the paper let me know what he actually did at the GE plant I made a point of looking the subject up

[Sakura12]

I loved the Jiyang reveal, the character has become so much more interesting in mere seconds. Her scenes with Cal and gonzalez were great, too. I have to say, at the start of this season, I've never expected to enjoy this show as much as I am enjoying it now. Basically everything has improved. I even liked Hunter (seriously, his drawing of Raina was the funniest thing ever. Reminded me of the pilot with Maria Hill and Coulson, too).

 

I forgot about the porcupine/poop drawing that Maria Hill did. Haha. Was that unintended foreshadowing? 

[FurryFury]

Quite possibly. I know some complained that Ward being evil was an asspull, but I definitely think it was planned from the get go.

[ChelseaNH]

I keep thinking how differently this would all have turned out if only Gonzales carried an ICER instead of a gun.

[Boundary]

I know a lot of people don't think Dichen Lachman is the best actress, but I think she's amazing. She's played this character perfectly since day 1. Equal amounts of sincerity towards Skye as her daughter and equal amounts of ruthless leader under a veneer of peaceful non-violence. I love it. I love her. Jiaying and Cal have quickly become my favorite characters and I was not a fan of Cal at the beginning. 

 

I love Cal's interactions with Jiaying. You can tell he's trying to rein it in and it's always funny when a burst of rage squeezes through. And Jiaying just rolls her eyes like, "anyway, you were saying?" There's an element of a marriage on the mend but it's never going to work, she's too practical and he's too optimistic. I also like that Skye has so far stayed away from the "I wish my parents were together" schtick. 

[Tarasme]

Sorry- high minded post ahead. Pppbbbbbbttt,

 

S.H.I.E.L.D. is really damned if you do... damned if you don't.

 

SHIELD was tasked with protecting people from threats that cannot be handled by regular law enforcement and for which the citizenry absolutely should NOT want handled by the military.

 

How in the sweet sweet universe can SHIELD meet that expectation if they do not make an attempt to know what the threat is, where it lies, and to what extent it is capable of doing harm? Conversely, in a free society, as per CAP, indexing and watching and tagging and surveillance and so forth should come AFTER an individual has made a criminal choice. (From CA:TWS- hee! will be my fav interaction from my fav movie for a long time), "I thought the punishment usually came *after* the crime... {we made compromises to the philosophy of punishment coming after the crime} so that people could be free. This isn't freedom, it's fear."

 

The idea of an index should make everyone afraid. There is no way for individuals to mitigate or withstand the sheer power of an organization with that kind of invasive overreaching presence. Unfortunately, freedom from tyranny can cost much from those that sacrifice to maintain that freedom (Tripp) and collateral damage (all those folks affected by that little girl in Bahrain).

 

For SHIELD to attempt to index anyone in Afterlife was wrong. It was a mistake. It was a mistake driven by fear. The fact that a monster was waiting to pounce on that fear in no way justifies the attempt. In this scenario, freedom loving people are completely at the mercy of the intent, nobility, honor, well wishes of the people holding the power of the index and all the guns that are now going to be pointed at those on the index. Since no one is perfect- people cannot rely on leaders being noble to prevent the type of atrocities resulting from overeach, as MDKNIGHT pointed out in a previous post.

 

The only folks I blame for this predicament more than I blame SHIELD are Jianyang, Cal, and Raina. None of the three actually considered the people they claim to care about/ be looking out for/ want to lead. They each acted on completely selfish opportunistic junk that'll result in getting a whole bunch of Inhumans and humans alike killed.

 

That said- LOVE LOVE LOVE Kyle Maclachlan more each week. Still no chemistry with Dichen but that's certainly not for lack of trying.

[ChelseaNH]

I wonder if someone at SHIELD will realize that Inhumans must have been pretty good at policing themselves, if no one was aware of their existence.  (Not perfect, of course, but pretty good.)  However, SHIELD has some control freak tendencies, and Inhumans breezily trespassing on SHIELD territory is going to raise some hackles.

[Sakura12]

Also considering that SHIELD didn't even know that Bahrain was them dealing with Inhumans. Raina was doing all her criminal activities as a human and Cal is not an Inhuman. So to them the Inhumans have done nothing to threaten anyone. 

 

[APSimpson]

I keep thinking how differently this would all have turned out if only Gonzales carried an ICER instead of a gun.

 

I don't think it would have mattered. Gonzales only pulled his gun out when he realized he was being killed.

 

SHIELD was tasked with protecting people from threats that cannot be handled by regular law enforcement and for which the citizenry absolutely should NOT want handled by the military.

 

How in the sweet sweet universe can SHIELD meet that expectation if they do not make an attempt to know what the threat is, where it lies, and to what extent it is capable of doing harm?

 

The Inhumans are basically 084s, so of course Shield is going to want to monitor them. To not do that would be irresponsible on their part. Let's not forget that the Kree originally intended for them to be weapons. I'm not that clear on the comic angle, but I think that's the gist of it.

 

I can understand Jiaying's concern, but she seems to confuse Shield with Hydra and just because Hydra did some awful things to her and her people, it doesn't mean that Shield is like that.

[sinkwriter]

I'm kind of disappointed that Gonzalez died. I think it would have been more interesting (especially for him as a character, given his prejudices against "powered people") if it had turned out in the moment that he was "one of them" after all and her weapon had triggered his power, whatever that might be.

 

He would not only have to deal with having this strange new power, but also deal with his massive fears about powered people and what it means to now be one of them.

Edited May 7, 2015 by sinkwriter

[kennyab]

I can understand Jiaying's concern, but she seems to confuse Shield with Hydra and just because Hydra did some awful things to her and her people, it doesn't mean that Shield is like that.

 

The problem is that SHIELD could change, or someone within SHIELD may decide to take advantage of the Index. Just because Coulson's a good guy doesn't mean the Index will never fall into more nefarious hands.

 

The Inhumans are still people. They may be descendants of genetically modified humans from thousands of years ago, but they're still people. While I think it's reasonable for SHIELD to want to understand more about the Inhumans as a group, I think that the indexing of someone who hasn't committed any type of crime is a big rights violation. And SHIELD has no authority. It's not like this is even a UN-sponsored initiative or anything. It's one rogue group deciding to track all superhumans. I don't have a problem with Coulson and Co being a freelance peacekeeping spy organization. But they have to accept now that status and recognize that they can't always act unilaterally, especially on an issue like this.

[ChelseaNH]

I keep thinking how differently this would all have turned out if only Gonzales carried an ICER instead of a gun.

I don't think it would have mattered. Gonzales only pulled his gun out when he realized he was being killed.

 

It would make a huge difference to Jiaying when she shot herself with his weapon.

[Sakura12]

Being put on a list because you are different has never led to anything good. Jiaying knows this having lived through WW2. What right does SHIELD have to put people on list? Someone quoted Steve Rogers when he said, he thought they passed judgement after the crime, and Fury said they are doing it to prevent crime and Cap said something about that sounds more doing because of fear, not to protect anyone. 

 

The Inhumans haven't done anything to anyone. SHIELD is coming after them out of fear, putting the Inhumans on the defense. SHIELD's scientist are not going to want to stop at just having names on a list. They are going to want to know how their powers work, like any other alien tech they get. Look what Tony did in the movie. Plus the Inhumans know that SHIELD has a weapon that can wipe them out, that makes them defensive about trusting a group that can kill them all. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

Plus the Inhumans know that SHIELD has a weapon that can wipe them out, that makes them defensive about trusting a group that can kill them all.

 

But the Inhumans don't know for sure that's what it does.  "A weapon that can wipe them out" is what has been passed down through the ages, but things change over time especially oral histories -- and no one has ever activated it to confirm what it actually does.  Nor would they even know how to destroy it.

[Chaos Theory]

I don't think it would have mattered. Gonzales only pulled his gun out when he realized he was being killed.

The Inhumans are basically 084s, so of course Shield is going to want to monitor them. To not do that would be irresponsible on their part. Let's not forget that the Kree originally intended for them to be weapons. I'm not that clear on the comic angle, but I think that's the gist of it.

I can understand Jiaying's concern, but she seems to confuse Shield with Hydra and just because Hydra did some awful things to her and her people, it doesn't mean that Shield is like that.

Shield and Hydra are basically the same entity especially the current or pre Winter Soldier version. Hydra grew out of Shield and the major difference between the two is method.

And to categorize an entire group of people as 084s is to dehumanized them. What is to stop Shield from arresting any of them for any or no reason. He'll Simmons needs a tissue sample....that one will do nicely. (That doesn't mean I don't think it wouldn't be a fascinating as hell story if Simmons intentionally/unintentionally becomes a Mengele type person to the Inhumans).To remove choice for anyone who hasn't committed a crime is dangerous.

[Donny Ketchum]

Whelp, looks like Simmons had the right idea last week.  Redemption my ass: it sure looks like Ward is out for revenge, and Kara is helping them out.  I would have been more concerned about him suddenly shooting Bobbi, but since I already knew Adrienne Palicki is going to be on the spin-off, I figured she was being iced.  But I hope both Ward and Kara end up regretting that they spare her.  Those two better go down.

Oh, the spin-off really is happening?  Bobbi's leaving us after this to go to it?  Probably Hunter, too? :(

 

As for the Ward/Kara twist, I knew it was happening.  And I, too, hope they both go down next week.  Also, I'm delighted there's no redemption for him in the works for one reason.  No return to the team for him.  @APSimpson, to quote Elsa from Frozen: "LET IT GO!"  It's not going to happen, and this episode pretty much spelled it out in big, bright, shining lights!

[FurryFury]

Oh, the spin-off really is happening?

 

It hasn't been picked up officially yet, so who knows.

[MandolinMagi]

Look, the Index isn't inherently bad, it's just a comic book requirement to force conflict.

 

We already track who has a medical license or a concealed-carry permit. We register cars and sex offenders. Why should we not track those who teleport, throw electricity, or vibrate buildings to bits?

 

Any attempt to compare Mutants or Inhumans to the Jewish or homosexual persecution is stupid. First of all, most superheroes are that way voluntarily. Tony built his armor. Steve volunteered for the Super Soldier project. Most current Inhumans passed selection to get a chance at powers. Bruce and Skye were accidents, Thor is the only super born that way.

 

Second, homosexuality doesn't let you manipulate metal, teleport, or any other superpower. Magneto wants to protect Mutants, but every single thing he does just reinforces the fact that Mutants are, in fact, a threat. Jaiying hasn't quite jumped of the cliff like that, but she's the one authorizing teleportation raids on neutral forces who distrust and massively outgun her.

 

I think the Index is a good idea, there's just too much comic book history to allow it to be so. 

[ChelseaNH]

I think the Index is a good idea, there's just too much comic book history to allow it to be so.

 

Comic book history is derived from human history.  The point of comparison to Jewish and homosexual and Japanese internments isn't to say that these people are dangerous.  It's to point out that we can be really crappy dealing with people we think are dangerous, and not even to our safety but just to our social order.  So a blithe assumption that we can be even-handed about dealing with people who we know could be dangerous to our safety seems entirely unwarranted.

[Sakura12]

Being a Japanese American with grandparents that were rounded up and put in Interment camps because America thought all Japanese were a threat. (That is not even comparable to what happened to the Jewish). So I do not agree with putting people on a list to track them in case they do something wrong. The Inhumans have been around for thousands of years without anyone noticing.

 

If they want a list then the Inhumans should also be able to make a list of all the humans in case they do something wrong. Tony Stark played around with alien tech and created an AI that wanted to destroy the world. He should definitely be on their list and tracked, along with all of Hydra and every other bad human out there who have caused actual threats already. 

[BPOX]

Yes. The index makes potential persecution better organized and more efficient. It also could make relief efforts, study more efficient.

Efficiency isn't evil in itself. It's that the nazis were able to be spectacularly evil because they had an efficient beaucracy.

[FurryFury]

The Inhumans have been around for thousands of years without anyone noticing.

 

Yes, but they still had problems with security which endangered normal humans (like with that woman and her daughter whom May had to kill). So I'm not sure I totally buy the "Inhumans are a-OK" thing. What they have in their hands is very powerful with the potential to cause major destruction. I can't condone them being left alone with zero supervision.

 

There is a great anime, "Shin Sekai Yori", that deals exactly with the consequences fallen upon the world where people with superpowers were allowed to run free. The results are very long-term but they are terrifying. I've watched it soon after the latest X-Men movie, and it really made me see the other side of a conflict of this type. I heartily recommend it to anyone interested in this topic and doesn't dislike anime just on principle (which doesn't make sense to me, but whatever).

Edited May 8, 2015 by FurryFury

[Sakura12]

Humans built a nuclear bomb and destroyed cities with it. Tony Stark created an AI that wanted to wipe out humanity. We're capable of creating damage without super powers. We can't keep going with some people or group of people are bad means all of those people are bad and must be monitored. 

 

The Inhumans have been policing themselves for thousands of years, without the humans noticing them. They were doing fine on their own. The woman and her daughter went rogue, they were not part of the rest of the Inhumans.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Sakura12

[FurryFury]

Humans built a nuclear bomb and destroyed cities with it.

 

Yes, but it took thousands of people to do it. The Inhumans can probably do equal damage with just a few. The scale is the difference.

 

As for Stark, he wouldn't have done something like this if he didn't get alien technology in the first place. There is a reason stuff like this was protected by SHIELD.

[ChelseaNH]

And Jiaying did attempt to deal with Katya and her daughter; it's just that SHIELD got to them first.

 

No one is saying that the Inhumans are perfect little angels.  But they've been self-policing for a really long time, and haven't caused the kind of catastrophes that people fear.  (Unlike their non-powered counterparts.)  They have a track record.  They aren't just asking to be trusted; they've demonstrated that they can be trusted.

 

Of course, the big problem is that the Inhumans were self-policing in order to avoid discovery.  Now that they've been discovered, things are different.  But I do think there's room for SHIELD to have a conversation with powered people, instead of trying to dictate terms.  Not "you're a problem and here's how we're going to solve it" but "here are our concerns, what are your concerns, how do we address them."  Treat them like foreign countries with sovereignty rather than subject nations, as it were.

[Sakura12]

Yes, but it took thousands of people to do it. The Inhumans can probably do equal damage with just a few. The scale is the difference.

 

They haven't done anything like that yet. That is my point. They've been around forever and haven't done anything to the global scale humans have done to themselves. SHIELD is basing everything on what they might do. They are marking them all as guilty before a crime has been committed. 

Edited May 8, 2015 by Sakura12

[Tarasme]

As humans, we'll always have to decide what our priority is, security or freedom. Those two concepts- after a point- do not peacefully coexist.

 

 

Any attempt to compare Mutants or Inhumans to the Jewish or homosexual persecution is stupid.

Well that's pretty provocative, but okay. Your following point, that supes mostly choose to be supes, could also be applied to anyone that chooses a faith, or maybe marries into an ethnic group. My understanding of recent events in North Africa is that people choosing to identify as Christian had their heads removed from their bodies because they did so. Humanity seems to find a way to point at an attribute then gang up on folks with said attribute.

 

In the MCU, some humans have picked the enhanced attributed (?!) people- with some justification- to point at and probably gang up on. If SHIELD was suggesting that people should be placed on the index AFTER they've robbed a liquor store, assaulted someone in a bar brawl, committed securities fraud by reading CEO's minds, etc.AFTER having gone through the criminal justice system, I would be more understanding.

 

In our world, I would expect an agency to pursue all methods of enhancing our protections against those that would do us harm- educating people, evolving courts, criminal statutes, jails, allowing all of the special interest groups and lobbyists to grow up and advocate for the Inhumans, etc. Instead, SHIELD is- as I think ChelseaNH mentioned, acting unilaterally to do whatever five (!) people thinks it should do and I don't think they're protecting the un-enhanced as much as they think they are.

 

For another quasi WW2 reference: "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve." 

Edited May 8, 2015 by Tarasme

[FurryFury]

They haven't done anything like that yet. That is my point.

 

But if they do it once, it will be too late. 

 

And really, May may have stopped an event that could have potentially escalated into something really dangerous. And who knows, maybe it wasn't the only such occurrence.

 

Any attempt to compare Mutants or Inhumans to the Jewish or homosexual persecution is stupid.

 

I agree. I've always found it forced.

 

However, I can't agree about superheroes choosing to be such. The point of such a comparison has always been about people who are BORN with powers. Like X-Men. And with Inhumans, I don't think it's fair to say they all choose for themselves whether to pass the Mist or not - they are born and raised in the culture that expects them to do it, it counts for something.

 

Anyway, I think the point is (or should be, in my opinion) is that there is no right decision in this case. This is too complicated and especially burdened by people making this choice not being perfect. It's tragic, and I hope the show will understand that.

Edited May 8, 2015 by FurryFury

[BPOX]

Lets say you do want to index them. Wouldn' t a better way to do it be to convince Sky to do a rough inventory. Ask her to stay and gather intelligence for a while before acting?

[sinkwriter]

 

But if they do it once, it will be too late.

 

You could say the same thing about "regular" humans who choose to murder. If they do it even once, it's already too late. Just because their weapon of choice is more down to earth instead of part of a super power doesn't make the act any more or less "too late." So why catalog just the super powered people on the off chance they might hurt someone? Under the argument of "prevention," everyone should be cataloged because you never know what someone is capable of, super powered or not. 

 

Approaching innocent people as if they might commit a crime, just because of the way they are or the way they appear to be... hmm... where have we seen that lately in the real life media and how has that gone, when the police try to "police" things based on assumptions?

[FurryFury]

You could say the same thing about "regular" humans who choose to murder. If they do it even once, it's already too late.

 

Again, it's the scale that matters. A regular human not in position of authority or not having access to extremely powerful weapons simply isn't able to cause such massive destruction.

 

Approaching innocent people as if they might commit a crime, just because of the way they are or the way they appear to be... hmm... where have we seen that lately in the real life media and how has that gone, when the police try to "police" things based on assumptions?

 

I assume you mean the recent racial tensions in the US? I'm not from the US or indeed the "First world". It is a double-edged blade, but I really don't think we should treat this fictional problem the way we treat (or should treat) real-life events.

 

Also, having some sort of supervision over them is not really "treating them like they might commit a crime". If I had a super power like, say, Skye's, I'd be afraid to hurt someone if it gets out of control and I wouldn't be against there being a way to control it, unless it means imprisoning me outright (which is definitely wrong).

Edited May 8, 2015 by FurryFury

[ChelseaNH]

having some sort of supervision over them is not really "treating them like they might commit a crime".

 

Since the reason you're supervising them is because they might commit a crime, it really is treating them like they might commit a crime.

 

If you see a difference, you'll need to provide more details to differentiate the two.

[FurryFury]

I guess I interpreted "Might commit a crime" as "willingly hurt other people". But they might do it unwillingly, even. Like that little girl.

 

The Inhumans' culture is far from awesome and safe, I think. Especially when there are people like Raina around - and even Jiaying has proved to be not such a perfect leader.

[frenchtoast]

I'm just glad that the show is entering this discussion showing both sides, and give both sides equal validity and weight. It never felt anvilicious to me, but it did surprise me and make me think and I've enjoyed reading the debate. It's too bad we only have two hours of the show left, but I do look forward to next week because I don't think it will be resolved, and next season will continue the discussion.

 

Hubby and I felt for sure that it wasn't Bobbi that was Iced initially. We thought she tricked Kara somehow. So that was a surprise when we saw her on the floor. And I really need to hang out with Coulson, Hunter and Fitz.

 

It's interesting to see how Fitz and Simmons are starting to come back together but also realize there are some differences between them. They've changed, and that's a good thing because no one is static. But it's sad to see how they might never bridge that chasm. They'll still be friends, but never as close as they once were. 

[Sakura12]

SHIELD showed up in Bahrain and escalated the situation that's why people died. We saw that Jiaying was there to handle them she may have been able to prevent those people from dying.

 

For thousands of years, the Inhumans kept to themselves and haven't tried to hurt anyone. If anyone feels threatened they are going to lash out. If SHIELD had just left them alone, none of this would be happening. 

 

Humans intentionally and unintentionally cause mass destruction, to me it doesn't matter if one person caused or hundreds, the destruction happened. If we go the thinking SHIELD does, then the other Alien races should be like, well Hydra is bad and Hydra is made up of humans, all humans are bad and must be monitored. 

[ChelseaNH]

I interpreted "Might commit a crime" as "willingly hurt other people". But they might do it unwillingly, even.

 

So might anyone.  Should everyone be monitored in case they might do something harmful?

 

The Inhumans' culture is far from awesome and safe, I think.

 

Same could be said for SHIELD.  So why is having SHIELD in charge of the Inhumans better than having the Inhumans in charge of themselves?

[Sakura12]

The Inhumans' culture is far from awesome and safe, I think. Especially when there are people like Raina around - and even Jiaying has proved to be not such a perfect leader.

 

The human culture is far from awesome and safe. We have terrible leaders too. We can just look at the destruction Hitler caused, he's one person that got multiple countries to follow him. 

 

I agree that Jiaying is not a great leader and is biased to humans from what happened to her. But just because she's bad doesn't mean all Inhumans are bad. The rest were just living their lives not bothering or hurting anyone. 

Edited May 8, 2015 by Sakura12

[FurryFury]

Hey, nobody is arguing that, I think :) I've already said that overall, I think it's an ambiguous situation, true to real life. I just feel like it's wrong to say that SHIELD is evil due to the index system (which does make a kind of sense) and the Inhumans are innocent and good.

[Wynterwolf]

The index system is the proverbial "slippery slope".  In a simple context, it sounds reasonable, which is why reasonable people initially buy into it.  Until it's not.  And different people have a different point at which they realize it's no longer reasonable, usually it's when they can see how it could be turned on them.  

[Sakura12]

Who's to say that after the list, Shield won't be satisfied and go they look exactly like us we'll have to do something so people walking down the street know who they are by sight, like tattoo them. It never stops with just a list.