S04.E21: Headache

[Free]

Add me to the list of Juliette haters, and also want her to die a slow painful death!

 

I also shed a tear at the end with Nick's screams of NO!!!  maybe even worse so near Mother's day!

 

So the Royals have the baby, so what use they have now for Juliette? I bet they are going to cage her or worse, maybe hand her over to Nick so he can behead her, please?

 

Juliette really has no use, she can't go back and as a villain, she's already done a complete 180, so there's no point there either.

[ShadowFacts]

Especially with Kenneth gleefully declaring "We got her!" --- like he found the golden ticket.

 

This makes me wonder why, since they love being able to kill a Grimm, they didn't just wait for Nick and get two in the bargain? They had all their assets in place, they offed the neighbors, and Nick did show up, so why not?

[Nutjob]

My thought was that they knew Nick wouldn't show up alone--these days, Hank or Wu or Monroe is always with him. They knew Kelly would travel alone, though, because she tries to keep her location secret. That way they could ambush her just like they did, without any interference from anyone else.

 

Add me to the chorus of wanting to see Juliette gone. I used to like her character well enough, and the writers have completely destroyed it with this entire storyline.

 

Also, even if that wasn't really Kelly, and was a double she sent to test the waters, for me it still doesn't absolve Juliette of what she's done.

 

This whole thing is a mess now, frankly, and even when they do try to redeem her (and I just know they will), I don't think I can go down that path. I'll probably keep watching, but they have a long way to go to redeem the show at this point.

[Free]

 

Also, even if that wasn't really Kelly, and was a double she sent to test the waters, for me it still doesn't absolve Juliette of what she's done.

 

This whole thing is a mess now, frankly, and even when they do try to redeem her (and I just know they will), I don't think I can go down that path. I'll probably keep watching, but they have a long way to go to redeem the show at this point.

 

They've really cornered themselves in terms of her character either way with this storyline.

[HolmesUltimateQu]

Slightly off Topic: On Saturday, I hadn't watched the episode yet but I got on here to read some spoilers. I clicked on the Grimm main page and saw this thread had FOUR pages. I put my phone down and said to my husband, "babe, there are already 4 pages on this thread -- that means something CRAZY happened on Grimm..."

He doesn't know anything about previously.tv or TWOP so he just looked at me blankly.

"No, babe, you don't understand -- the Grimm page has 1, MAYBE 2 pages the day after an episode. NOT FOUR. I'm telling you, SOMETHING HAPPENED. Come over here and watch this with me!" -- then we watched it. And I was right.

 

I, too, expected a Brad Pitt "what's in the box?" moment. That's such a harsh way to leave something like that (although, I don't know a gentler way to show someone you just murdered their mother) -- that just seems particularly harsh. Even when Nick sent those heads back in the first season (second season?), they were hired help - not family. I am also of the mind that Juliette is beyond redemption at this point. Even if she didn't commit the actual act of murdering his mother, she orchestrated the whole thing. She tried to get Nick to shoot Monroe (and then laughed at it once Hank pushed him out of the way).

 

I also agree with the other posters who pointed out that there is no reason for her sudden evil-ness. It's not like she had a cold heart the whole time and this just emphasized it. She was a veterinarian who was kind to others, helpful. She seemed really nice. So now she's evil just because she feels like it? She enjoys it? It doesn't make sense for someone who is normally a nice person to go evil all of the sudden. I actually would have preferred to see this from Adalind because you'd taken my child, this is the kind of thing you might expect from me if I had powers. From Juliette, it makes no sense.

 

I am so glad Trubel is back.

 

Do you (the posters who've mentioned it) think they really wouldn't risk killing off a character just because she's the main characters girlfriend? It's a job -- sometimes you get let go.

[Nutjob]

 

I also agree with the other posters who pointed out that there is no reason for her sudden evil-ness. It's not like she had a cold heart the whole time and this just emphasized it. She was a veterinarian who was kind to others, helpful. She seemed really nice. So now she's evil just because she feels like it? She enjoys it? It doesn't make sense for someone who is normally a nice person to go evil all of the sudden. I actually would have preferred to see this from Adalind because you'd taken my child, this is the kind of thing you might expect from me if I had powers. From Juliette, it makes no sense.

The problem, too, is that if she's supposedly "possessed" by her new inner hexenbiest, the writers haven't made that clear. Someone upthread pointed out that they showed her having memories of her life with Nick, then her memory of meeting Kelly, right before she completed the task of luring her into the house to her death. To me that says this is all Juliette liking her new found power and allowing that to control her actions, rather than her new Wesen side influencing her.

[Mojeaux]

Also, even if that wasn't really Kelly, and was a double she sent to test the waters, for me it still doesn't absolve Juliette of what she's done.

 

I TOTALLY agree.

I believe Kelly to be alive and well (because she can't have just suddenly taken a stupid pill), and that she will be the one to off Juliette so Nick won't have to. Well. I hope. Because Juliette needs to die.

 

</wishful thinking>

[OtterMommy]

Okay, my thoughts about Kelly being alive:  I think it would be nice but I'd be shocked if it turned out that way.

 

First of all, there is that old soap opera rule that you should never believe someone is dead unless you see their body.  Well, we didn't see her body, but we saw her head.  I'm not sure how the writers will be able to get around that one and say she is still alive.  It looked enough like MEE for me to not question it and, obviously Nick (and Hank) recognized it as Kelly's...so....

 

There is also the issue of the actress.  She's booked on another show and, well, producers like to have their actors and actresses available when they need them.  And actors and actresses don't like to be tied up in a show where they are only used in a couple of episodes a season.  Grimm has already lost at least one actor to this (Viktor...although I wouldn't be surprised if Henrietta was done in for the same reason).

 

It's nice to think that Kelly is still alive and, with this wacky show, I wouldn't put it past the writers to try to bring her back in a few seasons if they get desperate.  That being said, I think TPTB has effectively killed off Kelly and we shouldn't expect to see her again....

[ShadowFacts]

 

It's nice to think that Kelly is still alive and, with this wacky show, I wouldn't put it past the writers to try to bring her back in a few seasons if they get desperate.  That being said, I think TPTB has effectively killed off Kelly and we shouldn't expect to see her again....

 

I think she's really dead, too, and I would be cheesed off if she sent someone else in to be slaughtered, with a child in tow.  I don't think she would do that.  I also don't think she would have walked into that trap, but they wanted maximum impact on Nick, and everyone to really hate Juliette.  I just hope they don't paper over it in a matter of a few episodes, then Nick is back to business as usual.  The type of betrayal by your ex-girlfriend that leads to your mother's beheading is something that nobody could bounce back from too quickly, if ever. 

[Pacodakat]

I for one am enjoying the character turn for Juliette, it’s interesting seeing a character that was so boring and milquetoast be given something much more interesting to play. The problem is that the actress is limited in what she can do. In Buffy, David Boreanz made Angelus pop and he became a character that everyone loved to hate. I don’t see Bitsy doing anything interesting or meaningful with this “evil side.” It’s funny that I never thought she was the weakest actor on the show, just not memorable and now I think this storyline was wasted on her. IMO

 

My crazy theory: Anyone else get a freaky Friday vibe from the way that Juliette immediately ran to the baby and picked her up? Kind of like a mother would do? A mother that was searching for her baby and then sees her? Maybe Bitsy was supposed to play that scene with a little more relief and emotion but she couldn’t find it in herself? I think that Adelaide is Juliette and Juliette’s spirit has been transferred to Adelaide’s body. Remember when Adelaide almost took over Nick’s body when she was in the dungeon. In order for the character of Juliette to stay on the show and not justifiably be killed off they are going to do some sort of body switching thing or spirit switching thing where Adelaide has taken over Juliette’s body but still has her memories. Which explains why all flashbacks. Maybe that’s why Bitsy is doing this wide-eyed blank look because she thinks that’s what Claire Coffee does?  The scene with Nick and Adelaide cozying up and Juliette being so possessive with Diane was a clue, I think. Maybe Claire was supposed to play all the scenes that Bitsy is playing but she became pregnant and they had to create a switch instead of abandoning the revenge for taking my baby story? This way Claire is still there but Bitsy is supposed to be channeling pissed off Adelaide? In the end Rosalie can do a spell to switch souls back or something. I don’t know how else they would redeem the character.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Pacodakat

[Free]

I for one am enjoying the character turn for Juliette, it’s interesting seeing a character that was so boring and milquetoast be given something much more interesting to play. The problem is that the actress is limited in what she can do. In Buffy, David Boreanz made Angelus pop and he became a character that everyone loved to hate. I don’t see Bitsy doing anything interesting or meaningful with this “evil side.” It’s funny that I never thought she was the weakest actor on the show, just not memorable and now I think this storyline was wasted on her. IMO

 

My crazy theory: Anyone else get a freaky Friday vibe from the way that Juliette immediately ran to the baby and picked her up? Kind of like a mother would do? A mother that was searching for her baby and then sees her? Maybe Bitsy was supposed to play that scene with a little more relief and emotion but she couldn’t find it in herself? I think that Adelaide is Juliette and Juliette’s spirit has been transferred to Adelaide’s body. Remember when Adelaide almost took over Nick’s body when she was in the dungeon. In order for the character of Juliette to stay on the show and not justifiably be killed off they are going to do some sort of body switching thing or spirit switching thing where Adelaide has taken over Juliette’s body but still has her memories. Which explains why all flashbacks. Maybe that’s why Bitsy is doing this wide-eyed blank look because she thinks that’s what Claire Coffee does?  The scene with Nick and Adelaide cozying up and Juliette being so possessive with Diane was a clue, I think. Maybe Claire was supposed to play all the scenes that Bitsy is playing but she became pregnant and they had to create a switch instead of abandoning the revenge for taking my baby story? This way Claire is still there but Bitsy is supposed to be channeling pissed off Adelaide? In the end Rosalie can do a spell to switch souls back or something. I don’t know how else they would redeem the character.

 

It wouldn't, it would only make things worse with a cop out after destroying the trailer and setting up both Kelly and the neighbors up to die, while selling everyone out.

[scrambled eggs]

I apologize if this has been discussed and I missed it, but I'm worried about Bud in the finale. I'm thinking that the show might kill him off, because it's a way to have a death of someone the viewers care about without offing a main character. 

[shapeshifter]

...Even when Nick sent those heads back in the first season (second season?), they were hired help - not family....

I forgot about that. But then I had a migraine when this episode aired and am just now realizing the significance of the title. Anyway, your reminder made me think that Nick (or someone--maybe Hank?) should send Kelly's head to Juliette (assuming she has a current address where she receives mail). I'm not as emotionally excited about her behavior as many are, in part because I'm old and wouldn't be surprised if the writers manage to pull an audience-acceptable redemption for her out of their hive-mind. Still, given her looks of remorse, having her open up the box with Kelly's head would be an appropriate zinger for her.

[WedgeOfSpite]

First of all, there is that old soap opera rule that you should never believe someone is dead unless you see their body.  Well, we didn't see her body, but we saw her head.

 

Reminds me of Soapdish, "how I am supposed to write for someone with no head?" But maybe that was an old soap rule, but from when I've been watching, even seeing the dead bodies on-screen (and say...their organs being donated to other characters), doesn't prevent characters from being brought back later. Not that I think Kelly will be brought back. I think she's not merely dead, she's really more sincerely dead.

 

I don't really watch this show, caught maybe a few episodes throughout the years. But some .gifs on my tumblr made me want to see what the hub-bub about Juliette was about, because she was one of the reasons I couldn't get into the show, to begin with. So I watched starting about 4, 5 episodes back, to present. And in the sense that the character and actress were one of the reasons I didn't watch the show, I'm enjoying what her character has become. But dayum! BT did not get better as an actress from when I watched. Like at all.  DG has gotten better, and the actress who plays Trubel (really?) isn't a good actress either, but her character at least was somewhat interesting.

 

Love Rosalee and Monroe, like Hank, Wu and Bud, mostly like Renard  (and all their respective actors are competent to good).  Nick remains somewhat boring, but not overwhelmingly so (and DG is better, though still not a great actor).  Claire Coffee should have been cast as Juliette, she can act and has tons of chem with the Scoobies. 

 

But I'm not a long-term or invested viewer, at all! so I don't have the frustration that people who have been years into a show would naturally, and rightly to my mind, feel with Juliette's descent and actions. I might watch next year, just to see how they try and get out of this? Because I don't think the Juliette character is going anywhere. 

Edited May 12, 2015 by WedgeOfSpite

[ShadowFacts]

 

My crazy theory: Anyone else get a freaky Friday vibe from the way that Juliette immediately ran to the baby and picked her up? Kind of like a mother would do? A mother that was searching for her baby and then sees her? Maybe Bitsy was supposed to play that scene with a little more relief and emotion but she couldn’t find it in herself? I think that Adelaide is Juliette and Juliette’s spirit has been transferred to Adelaide’s body. Remember when Adelaide almost took over Nick’s body when she was in the dungeon. In order for the character of Juliette to stay on the show and not justifiably be killed off they are going to do some sort of body switching thing or spirit switching thing where Adelaide has taken over Juliette’s body but still has her memories. Which explains why all flashbacks. Maybe that’s why Bitsy is doing this wide-eyed blank look because she thinks that’s what Claire Coffee does?  The scene with Nick and Adelaide cozying up and Juliette being so possessive with Diane was a clue, I think. Maybe Claire was supposed to play all the scenes that Bitsy is playing but she became pregnant and they had to create a switch instead of abandoning the revenge for taking my baby story? This way Claire is still there but Bitsy is supposed to be channeling pissed off Adelaide? In the end Rosalie can do a spell to switch souls back or something. I don’t know how else they would redeem the character.

 

The problem for me with the body/soul switching deal is that they have done too much of it, and just recently.  Renard/Jack, and the Mishipeshu getting inside the kid and Hank and the deputy.  Too repetitive, in my opinion.

 

My thought when Juliette was glomming onto the baby was, Adalind is having Nick's baby, I've got her other baby. 

 

 

[Eliza422]

I forgot about that. But then I had a migraine when this episode aired and am just now realizing the significance of the title. Anyway, your reminder made me think that Nick (or someone--maybe Hank?) should send Kelly's head to Juliette (assuming she has a current address where she receives mail). I'm not as emotionally excited about her behavior as many are, in part because I'm old and wouldn't be surprised if the writers manage to pull an audience-acceptable redemption for her out of their hive-mind. Still, given her looks of remorse, having her open up the box with Kelly's head would be an appropriate zinger for her.

 

 

I don't think these writers in any way have the chops to come up with an audience-acceptable answer. As others have pointed out all those flashbacks clearly show to me that Juliette was in her right mind during Kelly's murder...the only acceptable solutions to my mind are either her getting killed or her becoming a big bad (shudder the thought...ug...)

 

There is nothing else they could do that would work.

[OtterMommy]

I apologize if this has been discussed and I missed it, but I'm worried about Bud in the finale. I'm thinking that the show might kill him off, because it's a way to have a death of someone the viewers care about without offing a main character. 

 

Well, it may be that we've reached our corpse quota for this season, so Bud might be in the clear.

 

But I agree, killing Bud would be far worse than anything else they've done on this show--and they've done some pretty bad things....

[Crackers]

I really just don't understand the rabid Bitsy/Juliette hatred. I. Just. Don't.

[AntiBeeSpray]

I really just don't understand the rabid Bitsy/Juliette hatred. I. Just. Don't.

 

I think it's in part due to the writing. But I too don't get the hate against the actress tbh. *shrug*

[FormerMod-a1]

I've seen very reasoned and thoughtful explanations here of why some don't like Juliette or Bitsie.  I've also seen several say they like the character, but think the current writing for her sucks.  I've also seen some say they love evil Juliette.  In all cases, I've not seen anything I would call "rabid".

[AntiBeeSpray]

I've seen very reasoned and thoughtful explanations here of why some don't like Juliette or Bitsie.  I've also seen several say they like the character, but think the current writing for her sucks.  I've also seen some say they love evil Juliette.  In all cases, I've not seen anything I would call "rabid".

 

Fair point. I think it's in part due to the whole girlfriend of someone in the show thing. That's my best guess *shrug*. Didn't view it as rabid either. Just passionate imo.

[WedgeOfSpite]

I don't hate BT, I know nothing about BT. I just think she sucks as an actor. I have no real investment of the show, so for myself, I can just comment on what I've seen, which is whoa! BT's acting does the show no favours. Though yes, the writing seems to be illogical, I still have seen other actors bring enough nuance to their roles, so that I saw something in them, even when being villainous. That in fact, it's a time some actors have really brought it, And that was probably the intent here. DB as Angelus has been mentioned here. DB started out pretty weak in the pilot (though to be fair, not only was he a newbie actor, but the writers themselves hadn't even decided what Angel was), I personally thought he got better as the show progressed, and certainly was able to do Angelus vs. Angel by the time that storyline happened, mid season two-on (versus mid-late season four).  

 

I do believe the Juliette character is going to be "rehabilitated," and stay on the show, and I personally don't think the actor is helping. Sure the writing is placing the character in a corner; going after pregnant women; setting afire to a beloved prop; setting up the lead's mother to be slaughtered; then taking the child that was brought with said slaughtered character...is a bit much. But I think there was supposed to be something happening with Juliette's conscience/mind with all those flashbacks in this episode. Otherwise why included them?. I think they were trying to set up that Juliette was still in there, being good. Maybe? Maybe not? Maybe Juliette was thinking 'hey, does it seem like I'm wearing more winter clothes than other characters? It is spring, and other characters seem to be dressing more to that? is it so that I can wear these cool boots? These Boots Are Made For Slow Walking, and that's just what I'll do. One of these days these boot are going to slow walk over you.' Because the acting gives me nothing, it's so flat. Granted I have no idea from the writing of what's going on with Juliette, but I also have no idea of an internal life of the character, possible struggle, possible goodness, or even being an interesting baddie!  from the acting.  And I think that the show wanted Juliette to at least being an interesting baddie. 

 

ETA: anyhew, I'm kind of interested to see what happens next, and how they do keep Juliette on, and possibly reintegrate her in the Scoobies. Because dude, being part of putting your exes head in a box (least fun variant of Dick In A Box, ever!) is a lot to overcome. 

Edited May 12, 2015 by WedgeOfSpite

[FiveByFive]

I don't think these writers in any way have the chops to come up with an audience-acceptable answer. As others have pointed out all those flashbacks clearly show to me that Juliette was in her right mind during Kelly's murder...the only acceptable solutions to my mind are either her getting killed or her becoming a big bad (shudder the thought...ug...)

 

There is nothing else they could do that would work.

I was trying to find it in myself to figure out the easiest way to rehabilitate Juliette - since we all know they will - after being responsible for Nick's mother's death and since the simplest explanation is usually the right one I'd say, "It was never 'her' in the first place" is the best one I can come up with. 

 

... But I won't give these writers credit. Every time they have let us down and I keep watching hoping that will change.

 

In any case, I don't have a problem "in theory" with Juliette going full on evil as she did in this episode but I would have a problem with them reversing it without a reasonable explanation. I love Bitsie when she was playing, "nice, kind" Juliette in season one but I haven't at all since then. 

 

As for anyone saying maybe the baby now ... much older ... created an "Illusion" ... well yeah, we saw the head so unless she can create long term illusions and the head doesn't fade away in the first five seconds of the next episode I doubt that's the case. 

 

However, I can not believe that Nick's mother is stupid enough to just randomly walk up to the house with the baby knowing that everyone was looking for the baby at one point, knowing that the Royals are all around town and having survived so long already -- without thinking to at least case the place before she went in. I'll chalk this up to the writers forcing us to get to the outcome they wanted. 

[ShadowFacts]

 

Maybe Juliette was thinking 'hey, does it seem like I'm wearing more winter clothes than other characters? It is spring, and other characters seem to be dressing more to that? is it so that I can wear these cool boots? These Boots Are Made For Slow Walking, and that's just what I'll do. One of these days these boot are going to slow walk over you.'

 

That cracked me up.  Thanks for the levity, WedgeofSpite. I may need more humor to cope with this obnoxious plot. 

[Eliza422]

I really just don't understand the rabid Bitsy/Juliette hatred. I. Just. Don't.

I have no feelings toward BT as a person in any way. I'm sure she's fine as a human being. I don't care for her as an actress, but I've seen plenty of worse actors out there,.

I ***do*** hate what Juliette the ***fictional character*** has become. She wasn't the most interesting person out there, but it was nice that she was the supportive girlfriend and all that. This season's storyline has turned that a complete 180 into a horrible human being, and I have no qualms in saying I hate Juilette.

I think most of the people writing here know the difference between the actor and the character. Some people have larger objections to her acting than I have, but no one has called for her to be run over by a truck or anything!

[Darklazr]

I disliked Juliette the second she opened up her mouth, and that dislike has not changed one iota.  Adalind/CC plays very well off of the other characters, but for some reason Juliette/BT is just awful.  

 

If the show planned on having "Juliette" be the woman in the middle of Nik and Renard, they picked the wrong actress to play the role. I find BT to be way too stiff, but did like a few scenes of Juliette with Josh.  

 

Truble on the other hand is a vanilla copy of Buffy's here to unknown baby sister that stunk up the joint until the show went off the air.  

 

Before Aunt Marie died, she told Nik he was one of the last remaining Grimm's, but now we see Grimm's popping up like burnt toast! 

[formerlyfreedom]

Just a reminder folks, let's take extended conversation regarding Juliette over to that topic, and stick to episode conversation in here, please, and thank you!

[OtterMommy]

Before Aunt Marie died, she told Nik he was one of the last remaining Grimm's, but now we see Grimm's popping up like burnt toast! 

 

Well, to be fair...only 3 other Grimm have showed up--Kelly (who Marie knew about), Trubel, and Josh's dad (sorry, forgot his name).  Honestly, I think it could be interesting to have a, um, "traditional" Grimm show up.  I mean, I can see how Kelly was frightening to Wesen but Nick and Josh's Dad, or even Trubel?  Not so much (although I have to say Trubel did seem to be a bit more intimidating last night.  I always thought she was kind of bland, but maybe the writers have sharpened her a bit).

 

Plus, I have this thing when it comes to things characters say in pilot episodes.  The way I understand it, a pilot is made and then the network and whoever views it, and then they decide whether or not to pick it up.  Sometimes, "suggestions" are made when I show is picked up which may invalidate details in the pilot.  Inconsistent, yes...but it is sort of the deal  If Marie had said that about being one of the last Grimms later in the 1st season, I'd put more stock in it.  However , it (and a number of other details) hasn't been mentioned since the first episode, so I'm willing to let it slide.

Edited May 12, 2015 by OtterMommy

[OakGoblinFly]

Fair point. I think it's in part due to the whole girlfriend of someone in the show thing. That's my best guess *shrug*. Didn't view it as rabid either. Just passionate imo.

 

 

I don't think that's true at all.  There were many people who expressed appreciation for the fact that the titular character had a girlfriend who was grounded, supportive, kind, and understanding; one who wasn't above swinging a frying pan to defend herself or her boyfriend..  Early Juliette did not create strife or angst and she was NIck's tether to normalcy.  It was refreshing to see a partner/spouse be supportive (much like Elizabeth on White Collar) of the work and wonky hours required by their partner/spouse while having full lives/jobs of their own. I liked that Juliette and I thought Bitsie handled the material well.  

 

It's only when the powers-that-be decided to have Juliette become full on evil bitch that I (1) saw the limitations of the actress and (2) really disliked Juliette (and not in the "it's fun to hate her kind of way.")  Juliette getting hexenbeist powers and struggling with them, even struggling between right and wrong could have been really interesting if handled well.  Sadly, this plot line (along with most of the last two seasons have not been handled well).

 

What makes Juliette un-redeemable at this point is that she knowingly and willingly shock woges people, threw a guy across the bar, tried to attack Rosalee, threatened Adalind and her unborn child, tried to kill Monroe, torched the trailer, set her neighbors up to be murdered, participated in the assassination of Kelly, and aided in the abduction of a child (whom she originally thought needed protection from the very people she is now in cahoots with).  She does all this while declaring "I LIKE who I am!"

 

Since I stuck with this entire season, I will watch the finale (at some point, I no longer watch live).  Unless the powers-that-be manage to infuse the show with the magic of season one, I'm out (I've already deleted my season pass for Grimm).

[sigmaforce86]

 I can see how Kelly was frightening to Wesen but Nick and Josh's Dad, or even Trubel?  Not so much (although I have to say Trubel did seem to be a bit more intimidating last night.  I always thought she was kind of bland, but maybe the writers have sharpened her a bit).

 

  I think that's going to become "I learned a lot while I was away" - it's a convenient way to have someone new or confused suddenly be sharp and part of the team without having to show her whole journey or the learning curve (which we already got with Nick anyway).  So as long as they don't over-do it and make Trubel a super hero they can now make her as competent as they want or need.

 

As for possible other deaths - I've been wondering about Sgt Franco.  He wasn't really in it for awhile but he's popped up in the last few episodes including doing watch time at the Captains house.  He'd be a minor death in terms of character, more minor than Bud even although bigger than the current Royal.  But he has gotten more screentime lately (which, honestly, could also mean nothing at all - I'm also trying to deflect from the big players that I like too much to see off the show)

[OtterMommy]

  I think that's going to become "I learned a lot while I was away" - it's a convenient way to have someone new or confused suddenly be sharp and part of the team without having to show her whole journey or the learning curve (which we already got with Nick anyway).  So as long as they don't over-do it and make Trubel a super hero they can now make her as competent as they want or need.

 

 

Well, except for one little thing.  A few episodes ago, Trubel sent Nick an email saying that nothing was happening in Philadelphia and it was kind of boring...so I'm not sure when she would have learned all her new mean skills.    Of course, I would completely expect the writing team to forget their own detail on that....

[Free]

What makes Juliette un-redeemable at this point is that she knowingly and willingly shock woges people, threw a guy across the bar, tried to attack Rosalee, threatened Adalind and her unborn child, tried to kill Monroe, torched the trailer, set her neighbors up to be murdered, participated in the assassination of Kelly, and aided in the abduction of a child (whom she originally thought needed protection from the very people she is now in cahoots with).  She does all this while declaring "I LIKE who I am!"

 

Since I stuck with this entire season, I will watch the finale (at some point, I no longer watch live).  Unless the powers-that-be manage to infuse the show with the magic of season one, I'm out (I've already deleted my season pass for Grimm).

 

It is, she willingly chose to do this.

 

The same goes for me by the finale, it's make or break.

[AntiBeeSpray]

I don't think that's true at all.  There were many people who expressed appreciation for the fact that the titular character had a girlfriend who was grounded, supportive, kind, and understanding; one who wasn't above swinging a frying pan to defend herself or her boyfriend..  Early Juliette did not create strife or angst and she was NIck's tether to normalcy.  It was refreshing to see a partner/spouse be supportive (much like Elizabeth on White Collar) of the work and wonky hours required by their partner/spouse while having full lives/jobs of their own. I liked that Juliette and I thought Bitsie handled the material well.  

 

It's only when the powers-that-be decided to have Juliette become full on evil bitch that I (1) saw the limitations of the actress and (2) really disliked Juliette (and not in the "it's fun to hate her kind of way.")  Juliette getting hexenbeist powers and struggling with them, even struggling between right and wrong could have been really interesting if handled well.  Sadly, this plot line (along with most of the last two seasons have not been handled well).

 

What makes Juliette un-redeemable at this point is that she knowingly and willingly shock woges people, threw a guy across the bar, tried to attack Rosalee, threatened Adalind and her unborn child, tried to kill Monroe, torched the trailer, set her neighbors up to be murdered, participated in the assassination of Kelly, and aided in the abduction of a child (whom she originally thought needed protection from the very people she is now in cahoots with).  She does all this while declaring "I LIKE who I am!"

 

Since I stuck with this entire season, I will watch the finale (at some point, I no longer watch live).  Unless the powers-that-be manage to infuse the show with the magic of season one, I'm out (I've already deleted my season pass for Grimm).

 

That wasn't where I was coming from :). I was going from the her being involved with someone in show. But let's take any Juliette talk to the thread about her.

 

Not that's it's any kind of deal at all tbh though.

 

You bring up some good points. She was ok like she was before she turned evil.

[bentley]

 

She wasn't the most interesting person out there, but it was nice that she was the supportive girlfriend and all that.

 

As someone who has been re-watching the show from Season 1, let me just say that she was never all that supportive IMHO. If I had to sum up Juliette and Nick's relationship throughout the whole show in one scene it would be Nick on his cell phone leaving a message begging Juliette to call him back because they need to talk. Fill in the blank on whatever caused her to be in a snit that particular episode/season. 

[spaulding]

Ikr, at least Constantine was actually doing his thing, here, we get stuck with these nonsensical storylines and destroying things like the trailer and killing off characters like Kelly for this bs.

 

I love Constantine.  It was a great compliment to Grimm on Fridays.  It was such a contrast to watch how Constantine got better while Grimm got progressively worst.

 

I want to kindle with Renard and enjoy my shirtless rage up close.

 

Renard's last Shirtless Rage was kinda hilarious and hot at the same time.  His chest filled the screen.  Literally. 

 

Oh, I would hate that more than any thing else they have done so far.  No resets.  You wrote yourselves into this corner, you have to write yourselves out of it.  I also do not want for Kelly to be alive and this to be some giant ruse where Juliette planned this whole thing to save the world and Kelly is alive and Diana faked the whole thing and Juliette takes the whole Royal Family down by herself and is the hero of the day.  That would be the end of me.

 

I want my Grimm heroes to save the day.  I want Nick and Truble and our Friends in Arms to save the day.  If they keep Juliette I do not want her to continue being the bestest, strongest, most awesome Biest of all time in the whole world.  I hate invincible heroes and I hate invincible villains, neither are interesting.

 

Absolutely.  No resets.  The writers screwed themselves.  A reset would be another way to make Juliette not culpable for her actions.  And no reset that makes Juliette the hero who watches over Portland.  Nick is the Grimm and hero of the show. 

 

I think it is disingenuous to blame the fans for criticizing a badly written character.

 

Yes to everything in your post.

 

As someone who has been re-watching the show from Season 1, let me just say that she was never all that supportive IMHO. If I had to sum up Juliette and Nick's relationship throughout the whole show in one scene it would be Nick on his cell phone leaving a message begging Juliette to call him back because they need to talk. Fill in the blank on whatever caused her to be in a snit that particular episode/season.

 

Do you remember the episode? 

 

These recent episodes had Nick calling Juliette all the time.  She wouldn't answer because she was being passive-aggressive with him.

 

Somebody mentioned how cold Juliette was about Nick's proposal.  (I don't remember if Nick formally proposed to her.)  NIck was disheartened but Juliette came off as cold.  But Tulloch doesn't have a range of emotions, so I'm not sure if Juliette was supposed to be portrayed that way.

 

I never got the impression that Juliette was the supportive girlfriend.  In S1, Nick was furious that Adalind was Hank's date.  Granted, Nick didn't explain why he hated Adalind, but he had such a angry, seething reaction.  At the very least, she could have accepted that he felt the way that he felt. 

 

The same with the S1 finale.  Such bickering over a cat bite. 

 

I love how supportive Rosalee was in Over My Dead Body.  Angelina made a point to let Rosalee know that she was with Monroe in the spice shop.  Rosalee didn't take the bait.  Instead, she was worried but supportive when Monroe took the Dead Faint.

[Free]

 

Absolutely.  No resets.  The writers screwed themselves.  A reset would be another way to make Juliette not culpable for her actions.  And no reset that makes Juliette the hero who watches over Portland.  Nick is the Grimm and hero of the show.

 

The 'hero ship' sailed a long time ago, now we're just seeing how low her character will sink.

[Clanstarling]

Spike was a terrific character, the classic "villain you love to hate".  Dukat and Weyoun were similar charismatic villains on Deep Space Nine.  Some people just know how to play villains.

That, and you have to have writers who know how to write complicated villians. You really need both sides of process to make a memorable character.

 

My problem is the age of Diana. Wasn't she just born last year? She looked to be about 3 or 4 in this episode.

I fully expected her to be older. I've seen the rapid growth of a special snowflake child in several shows (The 4400, one of the Stargates...I forget which one). So I don't think it's as much a messing about with time, as showing how special Diana is.

 

The moment the neighbors were killed, I found Juliette irredeemable. In legal terms, I believe, she's an accessory to murder - that carries with it the same punishment as murder. You don't even have to be fully aware the intent, I believe, to be charged as an accessory.

 

It took me a week to actually watch this episode because I'm so tired of Juliette's Hexie tantrums. I've never been fond of the character, more neutral than hating.

 

I don't tend to have a problem with the main character having a girlfriend. I think it can work wonderfully (they're not "main" characters - but Monroe and Rosalie are examples of how a couple can be great as both a couple and valuable contributors - Friday Night Lights had the best couple ever on television, etc.). I just hate seeing interesting plotlines and possibilities thrown aside for relationship drama. That was my problem with Sleepy Hollow. Grimm wasted Henrietta, who seemed to have a lot to offer, mythology wise.

 

Which reminds me, did anyone else find it strange that if even Adalind knew what had happened to Renard (and Henrietta seemed to)  the fact that his mother didn't seem to be concerned that this would be a possibility. A minor comment about side effects, and off she goes.

Edited May 16, 2015 by clanstarling

[Shadda2]

I've come to the conclusion that Hexenbiests really don't care about side effects.  Ever so many of their fixes come back to bit them and others, in the butt.  I think every one of Adalind's have and I bet Henrietta had had her share as well.