Family Ties: The Good, The Bad And The Ugly

[Gramto6]

@EtheltoTillie I love the term  "didn't fledge". That so perfectly describes my brother!! No guns involved in my family situation either.

So far this is what I have learned: I googled how to find out who owns property in  CA and was led to an article in the SF Chronicle. (Had to pay $.99 for a 6mo trial to get past the pay wall.) Plugged in his address and it shows his name with TR after it. Meaning Trustee I assume. So he is still the owner.

Then I finally got past all the "go to this page" prompts and found the actually County Clerk listing for the home. It shows first transfer when my mom and dad divorced, quit claim, then the second when my mom died as Declaration Trust with his name as TR. However my name does not appear anywhere on the whole list of entries.

I am thinking with that TR designation they will have to go to court records to see who is in the trust? That is where my current info needs to be I think. I know my name is there but just that. I've moved twice since then, the second one out of state to MT. I know y brother will say he has no idea where I am and that is true,  on purpose.  I want to have it in the documents on file, I don't want anyone to have to search for me.  Now that I know this much, I am going to call the recorder's office again and ask again what do I need to do to have that info available to people looking at the trust for any reason.

I hope it is going to be a relatively simple thing to do.

[EtheltoTillie]

25 minutes ago, Gramto6 said:

@EtheltoTillie I love the term  "didn't fledge". That so perfectly describes my brother!! No guns involved in my family situation either.

So far this is what I have learned: I googled how to find out who owns property in  CA and was led to an article in the SF Chronicle. (Had to pay $.99 for a 6mo trial to get past the pay wall.) Plugged in his address and it shows his name with TR after it. Meaning Trustee I assume. So he is still the owner.

Then I finally got past all the "go to this page" prompts and found the actually County Clerk listing for the home. It shows first transfer when my mom and dad divorced, quit claim, then the second when my mom died as Declaration Trust with his name as TR. However my name does not appear anywhere on the whole list of entries.

I am thinking with that TR designation they will have to go to court records to see who is in the trust? That is where my current info needs to be I think. I know my name is there but just that. I've moved twice since then, the second one out of state to MT. I know y brother will say he has no idea where I am and that is true,  on purpose.  I want to have it in the documents on file, I don't want anyone to have to search for me.  Now that I know this much, I am going to call the recorder's office again and ask again what do I need to do to have that info available to people looking at the trust for any reason.

I hope it is going to be a relatively simple thing to do.

So many families have situations like these with one child that needs more help than others.  Elderly parents are burdened with this. In the Long Island case, the mother clearly did not make right decisions.

In your case, I think that if your brother is the trustee, then his name is on the deed.  I don't think you can add your name to the deed.  If the trust specifies that on sale you get a certain amount, then he has to do the right thing at that time.  If he is not in communication, you may have to decide to get in communication with him, maybe using a lawyer.  I still think you should consult with a lawyer or a title company rather than calling the deed recorder and trying to do it yourself.  I don't think that is the right way to go.   As a lawyer, I am a proponent of using a lawyer to do certain things, especially if you re out of state.  Unless your nonpracticing lawyer daughter can help you. 

[Gramto6]

Thanks @EtheltoTillie! You are probably right about the lawyer.  I  guess I was just hoping to avoid any costs. I will see if DD can do something at this point. She is busy, Chief of Police in the next city and all. But she said she would look for someone so I guess I am at that point now. At least he still owns it, so he hasn't cheated me out of my share yet!!

[isalicat]

13 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

There’s a house across the street from my weekend house with similar issues. The mom died at 95 several years ago. The three children could not agree what to do with it.  Fortunately no firearms were involved. The house had deteriorated substantially over the years and even had the yard uncared for with no mowing for months at a time.  Vines had grown over the roof. Then they covered the roof with a tarp.  Finally they decided to sell; it’s a total teardown. Someone just bought it. I think it’s a developer. We are waiting to find out. I wonder what monstrosity they will put up. 

Actually I have inherited half a house (the other half belongs to my brother in law who gets to live there until he either dies or *he* decides to sell it) that is also deteriorating big time. It was built in 1948 and has never had any of the plumbing or electricity upgraded or central air conditioning installed (this is in the San Fernando Valley in L.A., which is routinely over 100 degrees every day in the summer) or flooring replaced or bathrooms redone. Its a wreck inside and last time I was there the kitchen wiring was terrifying (I'm surprised it hasn't burned down yet). You can't tell much from the outside as the exterior yard has been moderately maintained, but it is a total tear down too. The rest of the neighborhood has been transformed into trophy homes so this is more and more anomalous, but eventually, not that I wish my brother in law ill, I look forward to seeing it taken down to the studs by a new owner.

[Cloud9Shopper]

Never mind. Went on too long of a tangent then erased it. 

 

Edited September 22 by Cloud9Shopper

[Cloud9Shopper]

OK I cleared my head and now I’m back. 

I had a fight with my mom last night because she is mad at me for taking an extra shift at my grocery store job next weekend when she’ll be away and I have to dog sit. It is only a 4.5-hour shift but she is angry because she feels the dog sitting should be my priority and I’ll be at work during the time one of the dogs will probably have to use the bathroom. (But meanwhile that dog had an accident yesterday because my mom was cleaning in another room and not paying attention to her. So I can’t go to work to get money to better my finances but my mom can blow off the dog and let her pee on the floor? Makes sense.) 

My mom also claims the store being short staffed is not my problem and it’s short staffed because no one wants to work for that pay and in her opinion the manager should just run a register for a few hours and I should adjust my shift. Well, that’s not how retail works. At my store shifts are set and we rotate who gets what shift each week. Also, the store being short staffed is indirectly everyone’s issue. I may not be the front end manager, but it does become my problem when I have to take on extra customers with full carts or do extra chores because someone called off for cheerleading practice or told my boss they’re too busy to work the shifts they agreed to. Customers may have to wait longer at busy times due to less registers being open putting more work on the staff who showed up. Besides the point, no one of any age was forced to take the job if they hated the pay rate and the schedule. I volunteered on my own because I had the time to do so. Nobody forced me to do it or told me it was my fault the store was short staffed. If I hadn’t signed up either someone else would have or they would have been down one cashier. 

I am so tired of my mom’s overreactions and delusions about how the world works. She doesn’t even try to understand where I might be coming from. I enjoy the part time job. And I’m not even planning to do it the rest of my life. Just until I feel more secure financially and/or get a better paying non-customer facing job. I am going in next Saturday, I’m not changing the shift or even asking about it. And I’m keeping the job. End of story. I don’t see working for four hours as the new definition of animal neglect and abuse. They’ll get fed and have access to water and can go in the yard when I get home, just like multiple dog owners do when they have to work. 

Edited September 22 by Cloud9Shopper

[chitowngirl]

I think honoring a commitment you made says a lot about you! If your mother is not happy with that, she is always free to find an alternative. If that is not an option for her, than she should be happy with what you are offering since it is within reason.

[Cloud9Shopper]

1 hour ago, chitowngirl said:

I think honoring a commitment you made says a lot about you! If your mother is not happy with that, she is always free to find an alternative. If that is not an option for her, than she should be happy with what you are offering since it is within reason.

Or she should have trained the dog to not have accidents in the house.

My dad and stepmom had a dog in the 2000s. Work from home was not an option for either of them at the time since we’re taking nearly 20 years before remote work was widespread. The dog was frequently alone 6-7 hours a day while they were working, and he even spent some of those days in a crate when he was young. I was in high school at the time so I would take the dog for a walk after school, but until I got out at around 2:30, he was on his own. Then when I went back to my mom’s house he had to be alone for about another two hours. He managed just fine. Wasn’t abused or neglected and was a happy and healthy dog. I imagine this is the life of most dogs whose owners work full time unless they go to doggie daycare or have a daily pet sitter. In most cases, as long as they otherwise have a good home, it’s not that harmful. And even when I am pet sitting while doing my full time job I can’t watch the dogs the whole day. I have emails to handle, calls to take, and may have meetings. It’s not realistic for me to just devote my attention to them around the clock.  

[Bastet]

Yeah, most dogs don't have a stay-at-home parent, nor do they need one.  Everyone I know with a dog either has a doggy door so they can go out and pee/poop/play on their own, or if no yard or that's not safe (e.g. coyotes) they hire someone to walk the dog halfway through their workday.  (This excludes those who either work from home or have short enough workdays the dog is good until they get home.)

If you'd agreed to take care of your mom's dogs, and then told her you changed your plans one of those days and can't go at all so she'll have to hire a stranger for that day, that would be a jerk move on your part, but that you'll still be there, your schedule is just a little different on one day, is not something to get pissy about.  The dogs will be fine, and happy to see you, and if one of them pees you'll clean it up.  Her peace of mind shouldn't be affected at all, and if it is, that's on her.

Edited September 22 by Bastet

[PRgal]

Whoa!  Talk about crazy families:

Case in British Columbia: https://vancouversun.com/news/bc-court-overrules-will-gender-bias

...and again, why I'm grateful I'm my parents' one and only.  And I'm one and done (so my little guy should be grateful too).  But there's still a lot to handle on my end, and eventually, for my son.  

[Dimity]

I was just reading an article about how Kristen Bell and her husband let their 9 and 11 yr old daughters roam all over an amusement park in Denmark (Tivoli Gardens) on their own for hours at a time.  As you can imagine this has generated a lot of comment - some of it positive, most decidedly not.  I'm a little torn to be honest.  Jeeze, I was babysitting when I was 11.  On the other hand I don't know if I'd have been comfortable letting my kids do that at that age.  And a big hells no to the idea of my grandkids going anywhere alone until they're 19!  Ok maybe that's an exaggeration!

 

[Ohiopirate02]

2 hours ago, Dimity said:

I was just reading an article about how Kristen Bell and her husband let their 9 and 11 yr old daughters roam all over an amusement park in Denmark (Tivoli Gardens) on their own for hours at a time.  As you can imagine this has generated a lot of comment - some of it positive, most decidedly not.  I'm a little torn to be honest.  Jeeze, I was babysitting when I was 11.  On the other hand I don't know if I'd have been comfortable letting my kids do that at that age.  And a big hells no to the idea of my grandkids going anywhere alone until they're 19!  Ok maybe that's an exaggeration!

 

Torn is right. Kids need the freedom to learn for themselves how to navigate the world around them, but how does a parent do that safely and without pissing off everyone else? I was not much older than 11 when I was allowed to roam the local amusement park with my older brother while mom was busy taking my little sister and brother on the kiddie rides. And, we behaved because we knew better. 

[Browncoat]

Isn't Denmark where people leave their kids in strollers outside restaurants and stores while they eat and/or shop?  I'm not sure I'd let kids that age roam on their own at Disney -- maybe at 12 -- but not all amusement parks are created equally. That said, when I was very young (6 or 7) and we went to Disney, my older cousins and siblings (11 and up) did roam around the park on their own.  And when I worked at Busch Gardens, there were a couple of weeks when we were inundated with Boy Scouts, ranging in age from about 10 to teenagers, all roaming  without direct adult supervision.  Their chaperones were also in the park, just not hovering constantly.

All that to say, I don't have a problem with it.  Unless of course, Kristin and Dax just drove up, let the kids out of the car, and left.  The parents should be at least in the park, even if the kids are roaming.

[StatisticalOutlier]

Both of my parents are from a city on the U.S. side of the border of Texas and Mexico.  When we'd go visit my grandparents, we'd go over to the Mexico side, to a well-known restaurant/bar.  The adults would hang out there and they'd send my little brothers and me to go wander around the mercado by ourselves.  I remember buying things like miniature pottery dish sets and I clearly remember a Yogi Bear comic book in Spanish.  Considering that and the timing of various family events, I'd guess I was probably at most 8 years old, and my brothers 7 and 5, and we were probably doing it before that.

My mother also used to drop us off at the picture show on Saturdays, and we'd stay there all day.  I remember seeing the movie Penelope with Natalie Wood because one of my brothers and I went in expecting a different movie; I even remember where we sat.  It came out in 1966, so I must have been 9 years old.

I also remember seeing Mary Poppins with my next door neighbor (same exact birthdate) because she could say supercalifragilisticexpialidocious and try as I might, I just couldn't.  But when I left the movie, I could!  Probably something to do with hearing it sung with a rhythm.  Anyway, we would have been 7 years old, going to the movie by ourselves (and a couple hundred other unsupervised kids). 

I never had kids so I never had to wrestle with the issue of free-range children, but I do know I treasure having had that freedom.

[Absolom]

It was a thing when I was growing up - the children's matinee on at least two Saturday afternoons a month.  No one expected parents to stay and kids would probably have been teased if the parents had stayed.  My cousin was a year younger and had a teen brother.  The teen brother was usually given money for his ticket and snacks and a few dollars more to go be in the theater, but not sitting directly with us.  The brother's girlfriend was usually there so I doubt a lot of attention was paid to us little kids. Plenty of kids went with no older cousin or relative.  My mother was considered a nervous Nelly.  😉

[AgathaC]

Excuse me for venting for a moment. Hubby and I don’t have children together, but he has a 13-year-old son with Ex-wife. They split custody 50-50 and are able to cooperate and communicate well, which is great for everyone involved.

Of course, that doesn’t mean they agree on everything and have the same parenting style. Ex and her parents (who are very involved with SS, their only grandchild) are almost ridiculously indulgent. If he wants something, it’s immediate gratification. If he gets in trouble at school, it wasn’t handled correctly by the school. He rarely suffers any consequences and I have never, in the 8 years I’ve known him, heard him utter a single apology. Hubby is more lenient than I would be, but he does have certain expectations and standards. And gifts are for holidays/trips, not every week. Same with special activities — every now and then not weekly.

Naturally, SS prefers life at his mom’s.

He’s not bad-natured, thank goodness. But he’s spoiled, entitled and self-centered even more than your typical teen.

Anyway, a couple of years ago, we ran into trouble with him and school. He kept either getting sent home or staying home sick. One time he did it at our house, it was pretty clear to me he was faking. The next time the nurse called Hubby, he asked if there was fever. No? Send him back to class. Never happened at our house again.

But it kept happening at hers. Thing was, despite having a school laptop and access to all assignments, he didn’t do them and no one made him — until he came back to our house and Hubby had to spend all Sunday afternoon basically standing over him and making him finish.

He nearly flunked (he’s a smart kid) and they had to drop him from advanced to regular classes, where he sailed through with zero effort last year. Ex’s attitude about grades was “oh well, as long as he doesn’t actually have to repeat a year, who cares?” This is a well-educated woman from a highly educated family. No concern that her child isn’t putting forth any effort or being remotely challenged and, when he is, just gives up.

Now it seems to be starting up again. Three times now this school year and the first 9 weeks isn’t over. As before, it’s always on her weeks. Never on a weekend or holiday. Hubby has asked around and there has never been any sign of bullying or social problems. It seems to be all academic-related. This time, it coincides with SS getting in trouble for tardiness in his English class — right before a project is due. (He got bumped back up to adv. English this year.) Plus, when he stays home at his mom’s he plays his PS5 all day or his grandparents take him out for lunch. Then, on Saturday, despite a mountain of schoolwork and having been “sick to his stomach” for days, his mom will take him to Dave & Busters or the trampoline park.

This is a kid who lies. A lot. Always has. Ex knows it and admits it, yet still believes every word out of his mouth.

Hubby and I are over here annoyed as hell. This is not exactly behavior that’s going to serve him well going forward. But then, maybe she’s cool with having a poorly educated manchild living with her when he’s in his 30s. Who knows. Maybe he’ll get it together and mature and start to show some responsibility. I’m not optimistic so far.

[isalicat]

4 hours ago, AgathaC said:

Hubby and I are over here annoyed as hell. This is not exactly behavior that’s going to serve him well going forward. But then, maybe she’s cool with having a poorly educated manchild living with her when he’s in his 30s. Who knows. Maybe he’ll get it together and mature and start to show some responsibility. I’m not optimistic so far.

Any possibility of getting into some family counseling/therapy? The boy is your husband's son after all, and if they share custody then mom and dad should be on the "same page" in terms of where this is going (not well, to put it mildly). Mom is clearly enabling the boy for whatever reasons to turn into a major slacker and if your husband doesn't want this outcome, time for some intervention!

[AgathaC]

25 minutes ago, isalicat said:

Any possibility of getting into some family counseling/therapy? The boy is your husband's son after all, and if they share custody then mom and dad should be on the "same page" in terms of where this is going (not well, to put it mildly). Mom is clearly enabling the boy for whatever reasons to turn into a major slacker and if your husband doesn't want this outcome, time for some intervention!

That probably would be a good idea (even better if they’d done it years ago). Kind of doubt it will ever happen, though. She’s kind of difficult when it comes to serious discussions around SS. Tends to get defensive and emotional. Hubby is hesitant about pushing too hard on things for fear he’ll lose SS outright. But I think we may be on the road to that already.

When Hubby tries to talk to her about the spoiling and the effect of the different styles, she gets upset and starts blasting him for running our house like a prison (we expect SS to put his dishes in the dishwasher, clean his room and put away laundry) and never doing anything fun.

It’s frustrating. I hope things turn out better than I fear, but who knows. He’s not a bad kid, but at this point he’s so entitled and shows no interest in anyone or anything beyond his own wants, so he’s not particularly likable.

[Dimity]

1 hour ago, AgathaC said:

It’s frustrating. I hope things turn out better than I fear, but who knows. He’s not a bad kid, but at this point he’s so entitled and shows no interest in anyone or anything beyond his own wants, so he’s not particularly likable.

I remember you mentioning awhile back that you have a one week on, one week off custody arrangement.  I wonder if there has been any consideration given to perhaps not doing that as he moves into the teen years.  I can only speak for myself but I would have found it really unsettling to keep moving back and forth between houses.  Would there be any other equitable way to share custody?

[AgathaC]

2 hours ago, Dimity said:

I remember you mentioning awhile back that you have a one week on, one week off custody arrangement.  I wonder if there has been any consideration given to perhaps not doing that as he moves into the teen years.  I can only speak for myself but I would have found it really unsettling to keep moving back and forth between houses.  Would there be any other equitable way to share custody?

You’re correct on the agreement. Interesting suggestion. It might be worth talking about.

[Absolom]

It has to be hard on the kid having two such disparate standards and styles of parenting.  It would probably help him tremendously if some sort of common ground could be found.  

[AgathaC]

11 hours ago, Absolom said:

It has to be hard on the kid having two such disparate standards and styles of parenting.  It would probably help him tremendously if some sort of common ground could be found.  

You’re right. It most likely is. Hubby is far from strict. But he does have some expectations. No lying. Put dirty dishes in the washer. Put away clean clothes. Keep up with schoolwork. Hand over electronics at bedtime. No food/drink in your bedroom. (We had an issue for a long time where he was taking food up and making messes he didn’t clean up, endangering dogs and risking pests.)

That’s not a lot, but compared to Ex’s, it probably feels like it. She has accused Hubby of making our house “a concentration camp.”

I doubt either one will change. Ex has admitted she can’t stand to see SS upset. She doesn’t see anything wrong with giving in to SS on almost everything. Hubby refuses to spoil him and feels like some rules and boundaries are good.

Maybe someday they’ll see the need to be more n the same page. For now, though, I gotta admit, I subscribe to Hubby’s style.

[Dimity]

1 minute ago, AgathaC said:

She doesn’t see anything wrong with giving in to SS on almost everything.

She might change her tune if she didn't get a break from him as often as she does!  

Edited October 10 by Dimity

[AgathaC]

1 hour ago, Dimity said:

She might change her tune if she didn't get a break from him as often as she does!  

Too true — and part of the reason I doubt she’d agree to adjusting the week on/week off. She might also start to see the problem if no one else is keeping up with schoolwork and grades. As it is, she believes whatever SS tells her (though she knows he lies often). Hubby is the one who says “show me.” I think she might realize there are problems if she doesn’t have someone to be the bad guy.

Edited October 10 by AgathaC

[Dimity]

50 minutes ago, AgathaC said:

I think she might realize there are problems if she doesn’t have someone to be the bad guy.

Definitely something I used to see a lot among my divorced friends.  In their cases good old Dad was good time Charlie who only showed up - at his convenience - to take the kids out for McDonalds or to a hockey game or whatever.  Never showed up for meet the teacher night or anything like that. 

No surprise that, at least for awhile, the kids wanted to hang with Dad as opposed to mean old Mom who made them brush their teeth and do their homework!  The good news is that eventually kids grow up and they start to see who really did the parenting and who didn't!

Edited October 10 by Dimity

[Dimity]

In another thread the subject of the "sandwich generation" came up and it made me realize that I never even considered what my parents went through when we kids were needy adults at the same time that my Mom was undergoing some serious health issues while also coping with their own aging parents.  Now that I'm there myself I am admiring in retrospect how strong my Mother was in the way she let me vent and made me feel my problems were, at that moment,  a priority for her even when they really really shouldn't have been!

Edited October 10 by Dimity

[isalicat]

6 hours ago, AgathaC said:

Too true — and part of the reason I doubt she’d agree to adjusting the week on/week off. She might also start to see the problem if no one else is keeping up with schoolwork and grades. As it is, she believes whatever SS tells her (though she knows he lies often). Hubby is the one who says “show me.” I think she might realize there are problems if she doesn’t have someone to be the bad guy.

At this point I would suggest just counseling (or whatever is appropriate) for your husband and the ex-wife to re-do the custody arrangement, since it sounds like whatever the ex-wife wants she is getting. Which is perhaps why your step-son is the way he is...they are both being entirely enabled in living the life they choose without any consideration of what will work for your husband and you and also what is good for the kid in the long run. IMO, of course.

[AgathaC]

32 minutes ago, isalicat said:

At this point I would suggest just counseling (or whatever is appropriate) for your husband and the ex-wife to re-do the custody arrangement, since it sounds like whatever the ex-wife wants she is getting. Which is perhaps why your step-son is the way he is...they are both being entirely enabled in living the life they choose without any consideration of what will work for your husband and you and also what is good for the kid in the long run. IMO, of course.

Agreed. That’s largely how it works for both of them. She’s not always that bad and she can be cooperative and accommodating. But otherwise, she‘s going to do her thing. Same with her whole family really. SS definitely has a “I only have to follow the rules I want to” mentality. Frustrating, but I’m largely an observer at this point.

[PRgal]

I FINALLY got my parents off my back about so-called "family meals."  You know how I've written about them wanting to eat with us, bringing THEIR food into MY condo and feeding THEIR food to my son (by basically filling his plate with their food so that I don't have room to even give much of mine to him)?  Well, I put an end to it.  The excuse I used was that their helper's food wasn't to my husband's liking (because he also eats some of it) and I don't like it either.  My dad begged and said that he still wanted to eat with my son a couple of days a week and that sudden change wouldn't be good for him (WTF?) but I said no.  End of story.  I don't think he's too amused, but it's not happening anymore.  We're still doing Saturday dinners at least once a month, but it's all my food, so it doesn't matter.  I also think my mom is disrupting my son's eating.  She likes to tease and play and meal times are not an appropriate time to do that kind of thing.  I've had to take privileges away from my son for being too silly during inappropriate times.  My mom doesn't get it and tells me I'm being too strict.

[BlueSkies]

It's an election year so it feels like family gatherings will even more tense during the holiday season.  I am already gearing up for it and or making plans accordingly.  

 

My mom really never liked my Dad's mother.  Some of her takes are fair but it's definitely disturbing to me the level of hate she has for her.  My Dad isn't aware of this and I'm not going to ever tell him.

 

Someone told me this once in reference to couples just because you're with someone for years and years what might seem obvious might not be.  

[PRgal]

3 hours ago, BlueSkies said:

It's an election year so it feels like family gatherings will even more tense during the holiday season.  I am already gearing up for it and or making plans accordingly.  

 

My mom really never liked my Dad's mother.  Some of her takes are fair but it's definitely disturbing to me the level of hate she has for her.  My Dad isn't aware of this and I'm not going to ever tell him.

 

Someone told me this once in reference to couples just because you're with someone for years and years what might seem obvious might not be.  

Why can't people just talk about, I don't know, what they're watching on TV (and not the news) or what they're doing at work/school/hobbies anyway?  Keep it at that.  No relationship talk, no news, religion and DEFINITELY no politics.  I was at a holiday dinner where I was criticized for asking another adult NOT to use foul language in front of kids (both under 6 at the time).  He's also known to rant about "kids these days" despite NEVER having raised children of his own.

[isalicat]

3 hours ago, BlueSkies said:

It's an election year so it feels like family gatherings will even more tense during the holiday season.  I am already gearing up for it and or making plans accordingly.  

 

My mom really never liked my Dad's mother.  Some of her takes are fair but it's definitely disturbing to me the level of hate she has for her.  My Dad isn't aware of this and I'm not going to ever tell him.

 

Someone told me this once in reference to couples just because you're with someone for years and years what might seem obvious might not be.  

My take on your last thought is two-fold:

(1) You really can't know what is going on inside other people's marriages, or even more importantly, inside anyone else's head. You only get what you see or what they choose to tell you...and in my experience its not reliable information.

(2) You would be surprised what people know about each other and willfully choose to ignore or deny. Your Dad may be very well aware of your Mom's antipathy to his mother, but sees no reason to react to it, or even acknowledge it, for many reasons.

[Absolom]

The last time I was visiting the grandchildren, granddaughter all of just turned 10 informed me her father's family was vulgar.  She told me they clean up their act when I'm around.  

[PRgal]

4 minutes ago, Absolom said:

The last time I was visiting the grandchildren, granddaughter all of just turned 10 informed me her father's family was vulgar.  She told me they clean up their act when I'm around.  

And do they?

[Absolom]

Usually yes.  I've never heard the curse words she recited said in my vicinity nor did the hand gesture get used within my viewing.  They've also quit encouraging the overuse of butter and salt around me nor do they ignore the sibling fighting or at least they don't tell me to leave them alone when I tell the kids to behave.  It's funny because they aren't "bad" people generally.. They are a bit hoity toity and they are all completely self-absorbed.  Yet if I'm in town they always include me in their family events and ask how I'm doing and are gracious to me most of the time.

[Dimity]

19 minutes ago, Absolom said:

It's funny because they aren't "bad" people generally.. They are a bit hoity toity and they are all completely self-absorbed.  Yet if I'm in town they always include me in their family events and ask how I'm doing and are gracious to me most of the time.

My daughter's in-laws aren't hoity toity but there are very different from our family.  Their son was the first in the family to get a university degree for instance and  they act like someone reading a book for pleasure is showing off.   They are quite well to do but according to them they "actually work for their money".  Unlike us white collar folk who have all that fancy book learning and just get paid to sit at a desk all day.  Sigh.  They're actually nice people and are good to the grandkids but we have nothing in common except those grandkids.

[shapeshifter]

18 hours ago, BlueSkies said:

My mom really never liked my Dad's mother.  Some of her takes are fair but it's definitely disturbing to me the level of hate she has for her.

My mother loathed her mother-in-law. 

 

15 hours ago, PRgal said:

Why can't people just talk about, I don't know, what they're watching on TV (and not the news) or what they're doing at work/school/hobbies anyway?  Keep it at that.  No relationship talk, no news, religion and DEFINITELY no politics.

Oh dear.
My daughter's having her mother-in-law and step-father-inlaw for Thanksgiving, and the step father-in-law is politically opposite from me, my daughter, son-in-law, son-in-law's sister, and maybe even their mom. Son-in-law's father and stepmom are not on that side either, but they won't be there because she has 10 other grandchildren in the area.

If the step father-in-law makes a crude joke (on any subject), I figure my lack of response speaks loudly enough. I just hope he doesn't bait me with one of those questions like my neighbor did, to whom I gave a short, pointed response.

Anyway, having read the above posts, at least I'm ready.
Not answering/walking away to check on a grandbaby is enough. My daughter gets stressed enough hosting these gatherings without her having to worry I'll say something to dampen the mood.
I can always pull out my excuse of having to leave early because I can't drive when it's dark.

 

 

15 hours ago, isalicat said:

(2) You would be surprised what people know about each other and willfully choose to ignore or deny. Your Dad may be very well aware of your Mom's antipathy to his mother, but sees no reason to react to it, or even acknowledge it, for many reasons.

30+ years after separation and divorce, I'm still realizing stuff I blocked out.

[Jaded]

On 10/19/2024 at 2:30 PM, BlueSkies said:

My mom really never liked my Dad's mother.  Some of her takes are fair but it's definitely disturbing to me the level of hate she has for her.  My Dad isn't aware of this and I'm not going to ever tell him.  

My Nana would talk about how much she didn't like my Grandfather's Mom. Apparently she would speak in German to my Grandfather and his Dad deliberately knowing my Nana didn't speak the language.  My Nana said she got stern and told her she'd appreciate if she spoke in English from then on. It stopped after that. 

[BlueSkies]

3 hours ago, Jaded said:

My Nana would talk about how much she didn't like my Grandfather's Mom. Apparently she would speak in German to my Grandfather and his Dad deliberately knowing my Nana didn't speak the language.  My Nana said she got stern and told her she'd appreciate if she spoke in English from then on. It stopped after that. 

It's weird in that my Mom it seemed this all started to hit her in more recent years.  Even after my Grandma died.  Like when I was a kid I'd moan and what not about seeing her or having her babysit me.  And she's usually be the one to defend them.  The roles kind of flipped there.

 

 

That's a song for you that reminds me a little of your story...   I know we're both active in the music thread 😀

 

😀

[PRgal]

On the language thing:  My dad often speaks Cantonese while my husband is present, even though Dad is fluent in English and knows that my husband does not understand.  I think it's a thing for people who do not speak English (or whatever the primary language is where they live)  as their primary language.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, PRgal said:

On the language thing:  My dad often speaks Cantonese while my husband is present, even though Dad is fluent in English and knows that my husband does not understand.  I think it's a thing for people who do not speak English (or whatever the primary language is where they live)  as their primary language.

When I'm part of a group of people speaking in a language other than English, I find myself wondering how much of it is convenience, and how much of it (if any) is so I won't know what they're saying, and how much (if any) is to make me feel left out the way they felt left out before they learned English. 
I mostly try to squelch the 2nd two thoughts, but they do crop up.

[EtheltoTillie]

16 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

When I'm part of a group of people speaking in a language other than English, I find myself wondering how much of it is convenience, and how much of it (if any) is so I won't know what they're saying, and how much (if any) is to make me feel left out the way they felt left out before they learned English. 
I mostly try to squelch the 2nd two thoughts, but they do crop up.

This happens to me every so often, and I always get the paranoid thought that they are talking about me.

19 hours ago, BlueSkies said:

It's weird in that my Mom it seemed this all started to hit her in more recent years.  Even after my Grandma died.  Like when I was a kid I'd moan and what not about seeing her or having her babysit me.  And she's usually be the one to defend them.  The roles kind of flipped there.

 

 

That's a song for you that reminds me a little of your story...   I know we're both active in the music thread 😀

 

😀

I like that song! 

[PRgal]

27 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

When I'm part of a group of people speaking in a language other than English, I find myself wondering how much of it is convenience, and how much of it (if any) is so I won't know what they're saying, and how much (if any) is to make me feel left out the way they felt left out before they learned English. 
I mostly try to squelch the 2nd two thoughts, but they do crop up.

I think it’s often convenience.  When my parents are speaking Cantonese in front of my husband, they aren’t talking about him.  I always reply in English just so he could at least get an understanding of what my parents are discussing with me.  Plus it’s easier for me to speak English.  

[SoMuchTV]

7 minutes ago, PRgal said:

I think it’s often convenience.  When my parents are speaking Cantonese in front of my husband, they aren’t talking about him.  I always reply in English just so he could at least get an understanding of what my parents are discussing with me.  Plus it’s easier for me to speak English.  

Haha, that reminded me of the show Ghosts, where only the wife can see & hear the ghosts, so when they're talking when her husband's around, she has to keep him filled in on the conversation.

[Bastet]

53 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

When I'm part of a group of people speaking in a language other than English, I find myself wondering how much of it is convenience, and how much of it (if any) is so I won't know what they're saying,

Usually the former, probably, but I've had a few times in my life where it was the latter -- only they were speaking Spanish, which I understand (at least well enough to get the gist).  I'll let them talk about me until a good point for me to interject with something I can say perfectly in Spanish, because, hoo boy, the "Oh, shit!" look on their faces is priceless.

[Dimity]

1 hour ago, EtheltoTillie said:

This happens to me every so often, and I always get the paranoid thought that they are talking about me.

Growing up anglo in Montreal I'd have gone crazy if I assumed the people around me not talking English were talking about me!  I get it though if you are in an environment where English is the language everyone speaks and for some reason two or three of the group start speaking another language.  Probably convenience, but maybe not...

[Absolom]

46 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Usually the former, probably, but I've had a few times in my life where it was the latter -- only they were speaking Spanish, which I understand (at least well enough to get the gist).  I'll let them talk about me until a good point for me to interject with something I can say perfectly in Spanish, because, hoo boy, the "Oh, shit!" look on their faces is priceless.

I do the same. I love the oh xxxx I've been caught looks.  

It's also a reminder that even if it's easier to converse in one's native language, it's still rather rude to use it around someone who doesn't speak it or who you think doesn't speak it.  It excludes them which is the opposite generally of polite and considerate.

[Jaded]

23 hours ago, BlueSkies said:

It's weird in that my Mom it seemed this all started to hit her in more recent years.  Even after my Grandma died.  Like when I was a kid I'd moan and what not about seeing her or having her babysit me.  And she's usually be the one to defend them.  The roles kind of flipped there.

 

 

That's a song for you that reminds me a little of your story...   I know we're both active in the music thread 😀

 

😀

That line about not being able to speak German.....🤣

----
 The "memories" thing on FB that reminds people of posts they made on that same day in years past has had me pretty bummed for almost a week. I've been reminded of a few posts I made in Oct. of 2015 which were about my Mom when she was on hospice. They made me start thinking about the family I let back into my life after she died.

They ended up trying to suggest that I make contact with a family member I haven't seen or spoken to since 1992 for reasons. I had to essentially ghost them on FB to get the chaos they were causing out of my life. It just sucks when people take advantage of others especially family when they know someone is in a vulnerable position.

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

and I always get the paranoid thought that they are talking about me.

Oh, right. That one too. Squelching those thoughts is like trying to swat a fly on a hot summer day.

 

[BlueSkies]

12 hours ago, Jaded said:

That line about not being able to speak German.....🤣

----
 The "memories" thing on FB that reminds people of posts they made on that same day in years past has had me pretty bummed for almost a week. I've been reminded of a few posts I made in Oct. of 2015 which were about my Mom when she was on hospice. They made me start thinking about the family I let back into my life after she died.

They ended up trying to suggest that I make contact with a family member I haven't seen or spoken to since 1992 for reasons. I had to essentially ghost them on FB to get the chaos they were causing out of my life. It just sucks when people take advantage of others especially family when they know someone is in a vulnerable position.

I had a friend as a kid who wound up in the actual news not that long ago..... and not for very good reasons at all.  I've thought about him a lot over the past year and where his life might have gone wrong.  I even asked my mom what she remembered about him and his mom......

 

The point being the last time I saw him was in 1992/1993ish as kids.  He was over my house a good amount of times.  

 

But yeah 1992 seems like a hell of a long time ago to me but yeah I imagine that whole time dynamic with family is just different.  My mom and sister talk about stuff from the 1980s like it was yesterday.