Family Ties: The Good, The Bad And The Ugly

[Quof]

6 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

 his driving habits after 70+ years of driving

And this is the problem.  A 76 year old probably hasn't had their actual driving skills tested in 60 years.  Leaving aside their own possible physical issues such as vision or reaction time, cars have changed in 60 years. Roads have changed in 60 years.   

[Lisa418722]

My mom is 85 years old. She can still drive, but limits it to the grocery store less than a mile away and two of her doctors. One is about half a mile and the other is a few miles, but she doesn't have to take the interstate.  She realizes she's not going to be able to drive forever, but she feels OK with those close places.  I know it makes it easier for me so that I don't have to take time off from work at this point.  But when she gets to that point, I will be there for her. 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Lisa418722

[Bethany]

6 hours ago, Quof said:

Roads have changed in 60 years. 

So much this!  Roundabouts were almost unknown in our area even 20 yrs ago, nevermind 60!  The last time I drove with my Dad he was so confused when we were in a roundabout and wouldn't listen to me when I tried to tell him he needed to yield to the car coming right at us! Luckily all worked out and in total fairness this was less age related than it was roundabout ignorant - which is a problem for a lot of people.  But it is an indicator that maybe everyone needs to take refresher courses on the rules of the road now and then.

[theredhead77]

6 hours ago, Quof said:

And this is the problem.  A 76 year old probably hasn't had their actual driving skills tested in 60 years.  Leaving aside their own possible physical issues such as vision or reaction time, cars have changed in 60 years. Roads have changed in 60 years.   

I agree. I personally think a road test would be more appropriate instead of, or in addition to, the written test.

[Bethany]

11 minutes ago, theredhead77 said:

I agree. I personally think a road test would be more appropriate instead of, or in addition to, the written test.

My dad just recently took the driver's test that our province expects anyone over 80 to take every two years (as an aside, at 87 he was not the oldest person in the room) anyway the written test was more a test of mental acuity than anything to do with actual driving and there was no road test at all.  I'm not sure what the province is trying to accomplish here - a pat on the back for acknowledging older drivers need to be tested I guess, without actually doing anything truly concrete to differentiate between someone who can still drive well and someone who should not be driving at all.

[PRgal]

On 4/4/2023 at 10:27 AM, Elizabeth Anne said:

My dad just recently took the driver's test that our province expects anyone over 80 to take every two years (as an aside, at 87 he was not the oldest person in the room) anyway the written test was more a test of mental acuity than anything to do with actual driving and there was no road test at all.  I'm not sure what the province is trying to accomplish here - a pat on the back for acknowledging older drivers need to be tested I guess, without actually doing anything truly concrete to differentiate between someone who can still drive well and someone who should not be driving at all.

I don’t understand why they don’t road test these people.  My grandfather was driving up until a year or so before he died (he was 93).  It was one crash and he knew it was time to give up.  Not sure if the crash was what led to him going a year or so later or if it was just time.  

[shapeshifter]

On 4/4/2023 at 5:55 AM, Lisa418722 said:

My mom is 85 years old. She can still drive, but limits it to the grocery store less than a mile away and two of her doctors. One is about half a mile and the other is a few miles, but she doesn't have to take the interstate.
. . .  I know it makes it easier for me so that I don't have to take time off from work at this point. . . .

Your 85-year-old mom wisely limiting her driving, and the impact her losing her right to continue to do this limited amount of driving is why a behind-the-wheel test that included switching lanes at high speeds might not be beneficial to society in general. 
I don't know what the statistics are on elderly drivers and accidents. 
It would be great if there were driving tests that permitted limited driving, and I bet there is now the technology that could be required to be installed in a car to ensure a Limited Driver did only drive within prescribed times, distances, roads, etc., or else lose their license.
But there is not currently public will to pay for it.

My father did limited driving up until he died at almost 92, and didn't have accidents. However, I found it terrifying to be in the car with him when he was driving. 
But then again, my 44-year-old daughter does scary things when she's driving too.

Edited April 6, 2023 by shapeshifter

[Bastet]

My parents are both around 80, and while their driving skills have definitely changed in recent years, they're still above average (they were both excellent drivers in their prime, so even with atrophy they're still perfectly acceptable to be on the road).  I make it a point to be a passenger in each of their cars at least once a year to monitor the changes.  Especially because they don't just drive their cars, they drive a motorhome.

My mom had to take my grandpa's keys away in his late 80s, but I know "Remember when you had to do this same thing for Grandpa's - and society's - own good?" is not going to get me anywhere if the day comes I have to do the same to her.  My dad, I'm not sure how that would go.

I just keep an eye on things and will cross that bridge when we get to it.  It's hard for everyone when the roles reverse in some aspects, with the child having to act like the parent. 

[oliviabenson]

Dick van dyke is 97 and recently got into a car accident. Wonder if he will quit driving.

[theredhead77]

My dad passed his written test! Woohoo! When he went back, the woman helping him told him to ask for the paper test, so he could go back and review his answers. He said that, plus the comfort/familiarity of using paper for a test helped his nerves.

5 hours ago, Bastet said:

I make it a point to be a passenger in each of their cars at least once a year to monitor the changes. 

That's smart. I drive with my mom but according to her, I'm such a backseat driver she prefers I "chauffer her around".

[supposebly]

My dad won't let my mom drive anymore after she almost hit a cyclist during the years she was suffering from crippling anxiety and depression. She just couldn't focus. She's fine now but still a bit scared to drive and limits it to short trips. She's 76. I wish she would drive a bit more to keep in practice.

[shapeshifter]

8 hours ago, supposebly said:

My dad won't let my mom drive anymore after she almost hit a cyclist during the years she was suffering from crippling anxiety and depression. She just couldn't focus. She's fine now but still a bit scared to drive and limits it to short trips. She's 76. I wish she would drive a bit more to keep in practice.

If I understand correctly, your dad not "letting" your mom drive anymore is like when my mom said my dad wouldn't "let" her drive anymore, meaning if there was something that required driving, he said "I'll come with you" rather than staying home.
And Dad always drove unless my always-charming brother-in-law managed to get into the driver's seat first.

In my mom's case, this happened after she scraped the entire side of the car twice while pulling in and/or out of their garage, which, to be fair, was very awkwardly situated on the side of a hill, requiring a 3-point maneuver — but she'd been doing it successfully for over 20 years.
Mom couldn't do it anymore because she and dad both drove automatic transmission cars using 2 feet (left for brake, right for gas) and mom's left leg just didn't function well enough anymore to work the brake.

So, for Mom, saying Dad wouldn't "let" her drive anymore was  less humiliating than admitting she could not do it. 

Once my ever-encouraging daughter took Mom to a parking lot to "practice." I don't think Mom ever drove again after that. 

Eventually Mom couldn't walk — but could still beat me at Scrabble and solve early-week NY Times crossword puzzles if I arranged the tiles she nudged onto the board and wrote the words she called out.

The last year of her life she couldn't move at all.

This lead to a lot of depression too. Sometimes the psychological/mental and physical deterioration are partially cause-and-effect.

Edited April 7, 2023 by shapeshifter

[supposebly]

Oh yes, it's a combination of my dad insisting on driving her for longer trips and her being quite nervous now/not wanting to. The car is registered to her, actually with him as a second driver. This is also his argument for not letting me take it when I visit.

They're still quite mobile by bicycle too, so we're not there yet.

Edited April 7, 2023 by supposebly

[theredhead77]

1 hour ago, supposebly said:

The car is registered to her, actually with him as a second driver. This is also his argument for not letting me take it when I visit.

When I first started going back to CA I was renting a car and it tacked on even more money to an already expensive trip. I was basically just running errands for my parents and going to visit two different friends for part of a day over a 4-day trip. My dad was hellbent against me using my mom's car, for literally no reason other than "he wasn't comfortable with it". This car is registered to her (he had his own car) so I didn't have to rent a car. My mom finally put her foot down and said it was her car and I could drive it. Once they went down to one car I started renting a car again. My mom said I didn't have to rent one for the entire trip, I could borrow theirs when I ran errand and she'd take me to the rental place to get a car for my visits but I just rented a car for the trip. My mom loved being chauffeured around in the new cars that I'd show up with. On one trip I ended up renting a Colorado and it was hilarious watching my 5ft5 tiny mom get in and out of it. She could do it, but man that was funny,

[PRgal]

My son has a long weekend project.  His class was studying Egypt and learned about the Rosetta Stone.  This weekend, he has to pick three words, translate it to a language he knows (the teacher suggested a family/ancestral language) and present it next week.  He has the classic issue of a mixed ethnic/cultural family.  My dad suggested three words in Chinese, but I vetoed that, because it ignores his other side.  We're going to do both Chinese (or specifically, Cantonese pronunciation) and Hebrew.  Possibly Yiddish, too.  That covers everything.  I was a bit upset that my dad suggested ONLY Chinese words.  That's not ALL of him.  My son knows A LOT about his Chinese side, but has had little exposure to Judaism.  My husband is not religious and is a "cultural Jew."  We went to Seder earlier this week, but I'm not sure he completely understood what was going on - not only because of the Hebrew used, but he has had ZERO religious exposure.  I have the privilege of already knowing the Exodus story thanks to years in Catholic and Anglican schools.  My son DID like the plastic frog toys that all the kids got at Seder though.  Heh.

[Bethany]

1 minute ago, PRgal said:

  We went to Seder earlier this week, but I'm not sure he completely understood what was going on - not only because of the Hebrew used, but he has had ZERO religious exposure.  I have the privilege of already knowing the Exodus story thanks to years in Catholic and Anglican schools. 

My son is an atheist married to an agnostic so their kids have had no exposure to religion at all.  Yesterday my grandson asked me what good friday meant.  I tried to explain at a 6 yr old level and he responded "so let me get this right,  the guy died but he came back so why is everyone sad, what was wrong with him when he came back?"  I think he envisioned Jesus Christ - Zombie.

[PRgal]

57 minutes ago, Elizabeth Anne said:

My son is an atheist married to an agnostic so their kids have had no exposure to religion at all.  Yesterday my grandson asked me what good friday meant.  I tried to explain at a 6 yr old level and he responded "so let me get this right,  the guy died but he came back so why is everyone sad, what was wrong with him when he came back?"  I think he envisioned Jesus Christ - Zombie.

Certainly better than my "why can't women be priests?" question to a teacher at my Catholic elementary school.  This teacher didn't have a good answer for me.  

[theredhead77]

4 hours ago, Elizabeth Anne said:

I think he envisioned Jesus Christ - Zombie.

I'm a grown-ass woman and this is what I envision.

Edited April 7, 2023 by theredhead77

[EtheltoTillie]

4 hours ago, PRgal said:

My son has a long weekend project.  His class was studying Egypt and learned about the Rosetta Stone.  This weekend, he has to pick three words, translate it to a language he knows (the teacher suggested a family/ancestral language) and present it next week.  He has the classic issue of a mixed ethnic/cultural family.  My dad suggested three words in Chinese, but I vetoed that, because it ignores his other side.  We're going to do both Chinese (or specifically, Cantonese pronunciation) and Hebrew.  Possibly Yiddish, too.  That covers everything.  I was a bit upset that my dad suggested ONLY Chinese words.  That's not ALL of him.  My son knows A LOT about his Chinese side, but has had little exposure to Judaism.  My husband is not religious and is a "cultural Jew."  We went to Seder earlier this week, but I'm not sure he completely understood what was going on - not only because of the Hebrew used, but he has had ZERO religious exposure.  I have the privilege of already knowing the Exodus story thanks to years in Catholic and Anglican schools.  My son DID like the plastic frog toys that all the kids got at Seder though.  Heh.

Here are some Yiddish words for you . . .  I'm a cultural Jew as well.  Schmuck, Putz . . . that would put hair on the teacher's chest. 

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, Elizabeth Anne said:

My son is an atheist married to an agnostic so their kids have had no exposure to religion at all.  Yesterday my grandson asked me what good friday meant.  I tried to explain at a 6 yr old level and he responded "so let me get this right,  the guy died but he came back so why is everyone sad, what was wrong with him when he came back?"  I think he envisioned Jesus Christ - Zombie.

Since they just released a Winnie the Pooh slasher movie, this is probably the moment for you to sell your “Jesus Christ - Zombie” idea to a Hollywood producer.

[SoMuchTV]

6 hours ago, PRgal said:

My son has a long weekend project.  His class was studying Egypt and learned about the Rosetta Stone.  This weekend, he has to pick three words, translate it to a language he knows (the teacher suggested a family/ancestral language) and present it next week.  He has the classic issue of a mixed ethnic/cultural family.  My dad suggested three words in Chinese, but I vetoed that, because it ignores his other side.  We're going to do both Chinese (or specifically, Cantonese pronunciation) and Hebrew.  Possibly Yiddish, too.  That covers everything.  I was a bit upset that my dad suggested ONLY Chinese words.  That's not ALL of him.  My son knows A LOT about his Chinese side, but has had little exposure to Judaism.  My husband is not religious and is a "cultural Jew."  We went to Seder earlier this week, but I'm not sure he completely understood what was going on - not only because of the Hebrew used, but he has had ZERO religious exposure.  I have the privilege of already knowing the Exodus story thanks to years in Catholic and Anglican schools.  My son DID like the plastic frog toys that all the kids got at Seder though.  Heh.

That’s great your son has so much to choose from!  Maybe if this particular project draws more on one part of his heritage, there will be many more chances in the future to explore other areas of his background. My whitebread kids would have been at a total loss with an assignment like that 

“he has to pick three words, translate it to a language he knows (the teacher suggested a family/ancestral language) and present it next week. “

[PRgal]

19 minutes ago, SoMuchTV said:

That’s great your son has so much to choose from!  Maybe if this particular project draws more on one part of his heritage, there will be many more chances in the future to explore other areas of his background. My whitebread kids would have been at a total loss with an assignment like that 

“he has to pick three words, translate it to a language he knows (the teacher suggested a family/ancestral language) and present it next week. “

Everyone in his class seems to be no more than three generations removed from the old country, which was probably why the teacher assigned it. I think the teacher has Scottish heritage (not sure how long her family has been here) since she used Scots Gaelic as an example. 

Edited April 8, 2023 by PRgal

[Leeds]

On 4/6/2023 at 1:17 PM, shapeshifter said:

I don't know what the statistics are on elderly drivers and accidents. 
It would be great if there were driving tests that permitted limited driving, and I bet there is now the technology that could be required to be installed in a car to ensure a Limited Driver did only drive within prescribed times, distances, roads, etc., or else lose their license.
But there is not currently public will to pay for it.

 

These days probably no worse than those who text and drive or even just talk on their cell phones.  I've read/heard it's as dangerous (if not more so) than drunk driving.

Edited April 12, 2023 by Leeds

[Leeds]

.

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by Leeds

[Bethany]

4 hours ago, Leeds said:

hese days probably no worse than those who text and drive or even just talk on their cell phones.  I've read/heard it's as dangerous (if not more so) than drunk driving.

Several articles I read said that the accident rate for older drivers was comparable to that for young drivers.  I would presume for different reasons.   I know here in Ontario there are restrictions for young drivers, graduated license type thing.  I don't know how helpful that's been, but it's something. Perhaps some kind of graduated unlicensing would be helpful as people get older.  

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, Elizabeth Anne said:

Perhaps some kind of graduated unlicensing would be helpful as people get older. 

As an almost-70 year old, I get to applaud, and I did.
But, I'm sure you meant to say that at some age older drivers should have to be tested for hearing, vision, cognition, and behind-the-wheel reactions, and get restricted licenses accordingly. 
But it would probably be simpler to just do that for everyone.

I have a daughter whose vision makes me nervous when she's driving and I'm the passenger. 

[Bethany]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

I have a daughter whose vision makes me nervous when she's driving and I'm the passenger. 

My sister was a good driver but she always tried to avoid turning left.  It was very stressful driving with her!

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

But, I'm sure you meant to say that at some age older drivers should have to be tested for hearing, vision, cognition, and behind-the-wheel reactions, and get restricted licenses accordingly. 
But it would probably be simpler to just do that for everyone.

I did.  I was thinking more that as someone got significantly older (I know people in their 90s who are still driving) that there should be some limits - perhaps no highway driving, or not at night?  It's really hard to say that though as, as you rightly point out there are much younger people on the road who probably should not be driving at all. 

Why do we single out the elderly?  Because it's easier I guess.  I think your idea of everyone having to be tested regularly would be ideal.  It won't happen.  But it's ideal.

[PRgal]

Looks like this thread didn't fall victim to "accident" a few weeks ago...LOL...

My mom is losing her hearing due to age and wears hearing aids.  But I'm 99% sure they aren't working properly because she can NEVER hear me.  I called her about something yesterday, but she kept on thinking I said something else, then telling me I'm "wrong."  She worked in IT and is tech savvy compared to most 70-somethings, yet she NEVER replies to texts.  I'm not even sure if she reads them.  If she has trouble hearing, shouldn't she be relying more on text?  It's more difficult to communicate with her now and often, it involves near-screaming.  To the point that my son is asking people why "Mommy is so loud."  Any suggestions?  My dad says I should still call because Mom isn't used to reading texts.  She has her phone with her nearly all the time, so she's seen the alerts.  My dad is very comfortable texting.

[Bastet]

Are her hearing aids new?  My mom recently got them (thank the gods; now I just need my dad to follow suit -- I think he's about halfway through the process), and there's definitely a learning curve.  Especially when she calls me from her cell phone, which is connected to her hearing aids via bluetooth or something.  Half the time it doesn't connect, and half the time whatever is in the background is way too loud on my end.  Knock on wood, that now seems resolved after she went back in and got something adjusted and asked some questions.

I don't text (other than the occasional "stuck in traffic; be there in 20" type text from the car) and I'm not going to start now at almost 50, so I highly doubt your mom is going to suddenly take up texting at her age even if she's tech savvy; if it's just not her thing, it's not going to be her thing.  I think better to help her figure out why her hearing aids aren't working as they should so you can continue to communicate over the phone but without having to yell. 

If talking to her on the phone is prohibitively difficult, I guess in the interim you could text your dad, have him ask/tell her whatever, and then he texts you back.  (I'm assuming these are quick exchanges rather than conversations since they're at your place in person so frequently.)

[PRgal]

@Bastet They're pretty new - she got them last year!  I'm wondering if it's a connection thing or maybe she's been having trouble adjusting the volume.  My dad claims it's because nothing is 100%, just like glasses or contacts.  Well, in Mom's case, it seems like it's when one wears glasses, but is still squinting to see.  My mom mostly relies reading lips.  That works when we're in the same room, but not on the phone.  

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, PRgal said:

My mom is losing her hearing due to age and wears hearing aids.  But I'm 99% sure they aren't working properly because she can NEVER hear me.  I called her about something yesterday, but she kept on thinking I said something else, then telling me I'm "wrong."  She worked in IT and is tech savvy compared to most 70-somethings, yet she NEVER replies to texts.  I'm not even sure if she reads them.  If she has trouble hearing, shouldn't she be relying more on text?  It's more difficult to communicate with her now and often, it involves near-screaming.  To the point that my son is asking people why "Mommy is so loud."  Any suggestions?  My dad says I should still call because Mom isn't used to reading texts.  She has her phone with her nearly all the time, so she's seen the alerts.  My dad is very comfortable texting.

In addition to  @Bastet's suggestions:

When Dad's hearing loss got to the point where he couldn't communicate effectively over the phone (even with hearing aids), he got the "ClearCaptions" device for their phone. This would've been sometime around 2010, and apparently they're still offering this government paid-for service, so I imagine they've perfected it since then.

About her not texting: 
It might be worthwhile to try to find out why she isn't trying to interact via texting, as it might reveal other issues, including some loss of manual dexterity, vision loss, etc.
Also, through the 90s and early 00s, Mom did all typing for Dad because he said he didn't need to learn to type; only secretaries type (and Mom, conveniently, had been a secretary for 17 years before working in sales).
But in order to keep up his broker's license, it became necessary for him to attend seminars and learn to type. He only ever typed with 2 fingers, but he eventually became adept at emailing etc. 
So she might get into texting eventually. 
Or not. 

Re:

33 minutes ago, PRgal said:

My mom mostly relies reading lips.  That works when we're in the same room, but not on the phone.  

Dad's audiologist remarked to me about what a great lip reader he was, but Mom kept trying to holler to him from the other room. Of course, this was because Mom had mobility issues that were not well-addressed.
But don't be like my Mom was with Dad.
Get in your Mom's face so she can read your lips.
And, hey! Facetime!
 

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by shapeshifter

[EtheltoTillie]

Loss of hearing can lead to isolation and cognitive decline.  Maybe try to get your mother to try texting again before she has more trouble using a newish skill.  Texting is a skill she already has, she's just not used to using it on a phone. 

[Jane Tuesday]

10 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

And, hey! Facetime!

This is a great suggestion! I have hearing loss, and I rely on lip reading to supplement my hearing. At work, zoom has made such a difference for me. Back in yore, we did a lot of conference calls at my company, often with several people together and then a few of us calling in from separate locations. It was awful. With zoom, I can see everyone's faces, and it has dramatically improved what I can "hear". (Which is why I'm a big advocate for "cameras on" requirements, but that's a rant for the work topic.)

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, Jane Tuesday said:

This is a great suggestion! I have hearing loss, and I rely on lip reading to supplement my hearing. At work, zoom has made such a difference for me. Back in yore, we did a lot of conference calls at my company, often with several people together and then a few of us calling in from separate locations. It was awful. With zoom, I can see everyone's faces, and it has dramatically improved what I can "hear". (Which is why I'm a big advocate for "cameras on" requirements, but that's a rant for the work topic.)

My parents got an Amazon Fire to communicate with us when they’re abroad.  The thing sucks.  Lots of lagging the last time we used it (though it could have been the connection on their end). I don’t understand why they bothered. Why not just use what we already have? 

Edited May 3, 2023 by PRgal

[Browncoat]

My mother started texting in her late 70s, so it's not out of the realm of possibility.  She liked it better for a lot of things, but for longer conversations, she'd always call.

[shapeshifter]

Just to share something positive:
My sister and I have always had a fraught relationship and have never lived near each other, but over the decades we have stayed in touch. 
This week we were talking about my continuing search for a new place to live with the understanding that she would be mostly a sounding board, which sounds very generous of her, and which she really wanted to do, but always goes south. 
However, this time, at the point where I was getting annoyed, I interrupted to tell her what she was doing that annoyed me:
She always tells me what she would do in my situation, when financially she is lightyears beyond my situation, and is physically stronger (and doesn't have the Parkinson's gene), and has completely different interests, and has an amazingly supportive husband. 
I didn't list all of those differences. She knows.
I just said what she would do isn't relevant to me, and she got it. 
Yay!

I prefaced it by saying something like: I'm going to tell you something you do that bugs me, because I don't think you realize it bugs me. 
And I also said that I am high strung and live alone because I am easily annoyed.
I made it an "it's not you, it's me" kind of complaint.

She took it really well, including when I stopped her when she started telling me where I should live because of what she would do.
I pointed out that she doesn't swim and swimming is one of the few activities I can still do, and open water swimming is my endorphin-booster, and that area has no places to swim outdoors. 
The next time she started to say, "If it were me, . . ." she stopped herself!

I don't know if anyone else ever has this issue with a family member, but for us, this is huge. 
Hurray!

[supposebly]

It's very difficult to break patterns especially with family members. Congratulations to both of you!

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 5/2/2023 at 8:03 PM, PRgal said:

My dad claims it's because nothing is 100%, just like glasses or contacts.

Do you mean glasses or contacts are an example of something that isn't 100%?  Because if so, that's off base in hearing aid discussions. 

When people get hearing aids they (and everyone around them) expect them to be like getting a new pair of glasses--you put them on and you immediately see clearly.  Countless stories about kids who get glasses and go outside and realize trees have individual leaves.

When you get hearing aids, everything becomes loud enough to hear but it's not the equivalent of immediately seeing clearly because your brain has to learn how to process the sound.  Countless stories about people who get hearing aids and marvel at hearing that first crumpling of a piece of paper and then go, "Gaaaah!  Make it stop!!"

That's why hearing aids are so frustrating.  For one, they overpromise.  No hearing aid can effectively isolate speech in a noisy environment.  They just can't.  They can use an algorithm that detects what it thinks is speech and turn it up and detect what it thinks is background noise and turn it down, and a hearing aid can kind of do that, but it's far from a perfect process.  It's vastly better than analog hearing aids that just increased the volume of everything, but it's nowhere near what people are led to believe. 

And for another, the adjustment process is arduous and frustrating.  Things always sound different at the audiologist's office, and it's so annoying to drag yourself there repeatedly, often coming out with only slight (if any) improvement, and then realizing after a bit the issue isn't fixed.  But that's what you have to do.  And it doesn't help that it's usually old people who are the ones having to do it, and they might be doing it only to appease all the people around them who are bitching about how hard it is to deal with them.

I've had hearing aids for 35 years, starting when I was 30 and was a motivated young person who wanted to be able to hear.  As the years have gone on, I've gotten less and less patient with the process.  I can't imagine [ETA: being an old person going through it for the first time].

Mr. Outlier is an engineer who understands and enjoys working with sound and processing sound, and years ago he got his hands on the software to program my hearing aids.  So we do it at home and I still hate it. 

On 5/3/2023 at 7:35 AM, Jane Tuesday said:

I have hearing loss, and I rely on lip reading to supplement my hearing. ... With zoom, I can see everyone's faces, and it has dramatically improved what I can "hear".

I've never used any sort of Zoom or Facetime, but I watch a lot of BookTV, and during the pandemic, all the author appearances were done via Zoom, and it was horrible.  The jerky video and frequent lags between the sound and the mouth making the sound are death for someone who's both listening and reading lips.

Edited May 8, 2023 by StatisticalOutlier

[Jane Tuesday]

On 5/6/2023 at 7:56 PM, StatisticalOutlier said:

during the pandemic, all the author appearances were done via Zoom, and it was horrible.  The jerky video and frequent lags between the sound and the mouth making the sound are death for someone who's both listening and reading lips.

That's too bad! I use zoom daily for work, and seldom have any real issues, even on my crappy rural internet. Lag time would drive me bananas. When I worked in TV many moons ago, every once in awhile our network feed would get slightly out of sync, and for some reason nobody would notice but me. The number of times I called the control room on my day off to tell them to fix. the. damn. sync. LOL

Thank you for that amazing background explanation on hearing aids. Count my dad as one who has them and almost never wears them. I'm 100% sure that his provider never even said anything about needing to come back for adjustments. Grrrrr......

Edited May 8, 2023 by Jane Tuesday

[AgathaC]

So Hubby and I are dealing with a very frustrating situation. He and Ex split custody of their 12-year-old son 50/50 (week on/week off). Mostly, it’s been easy with no drama and they’ve cooperated well.

But now that SS is getting older, some issues are intensifying.

For at least as long as I’ve been around (7 years), he’s had a “difficult” relationship with the truth. This year, he’s lied A LOT about school — saying he turned in an assignment when he didn’t. Hubby keeps up with it with the school app and weeks he’s with us, H stays on top of him. He goes back to his mom’s and immediately there are missed or late assignments. She tells H as long as SS has at least a D, she doesn’t see a problem. (This is a very well-educated woman from a well-educated family.)

We suspect a big part of the problem is electronics. He has an iPad, iPhone, Nintendo Switch and PS5. (We bought him the phone when he started riding the bus this year — everything else from Ex.) When He drops the ball on school work or he’s caught breaking rules or lying, H confiscates the electronics. Ex thinks we’re too hard on him and an hour or so without his games should be enough — if anything.

Ex also let him download TikTok. We think he’s too young and immature.

Now SS doesn’t want to do any summer day camp activities, go anywhere, or do anything but play his darned PS5. We put limits in place, but he has free reign at Ex’s.

Anyone else dealing with a tween/teen with screen addiction?

[Jane Tuesday]

That's a tough one. My sister's kids all seemed to get way too attached to their phones when they were SS's age, and honestly they kind of came out of it on their own. But bad grades stick with you, even at that age.

There's probably nothing you or H can say to EX that will make a difference. Does H have a relationship with SS's teacher? Could he put a bug in his/her ear and ask him/her to ask about electronic usage at the next parent/teacher conference? (Without attributing it to H, of course.) In my experience, things like that are accepted more readily coming from a third party. 

[isalicat]

6 hours ago, AgathaC said:

 

Anyone else dealing with a tween/teen with screen addiction?

And this is why my son was never given any connection to the Internet directly until he was 18 years old and went off to college - no smart phone and although he certainly had his own computer and printer, we vetted all games (no first person shooter games). Homework happened before anything fun immediately after dinner (or he could do it right when he came home from school if he did not have soccer or some other thing to do). He balked a lot then and now as a grown up is endlessly grateful for our strict policy. I realize your situation is problematic since you are dealing with two households with different rules and expectations, but if it were me, I would take *everything* away when he is with you and introduce the exciting world of real books and outside things (like growing vegetables or finding some other outside sport or hobby). Anything electronic should be an earned privilege, not an expectation, IMO.

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, isalicat said:

And this is why my son was never given any connection to the Internet directly until he was 18 years old and went off to college - no smart phone and although he certainly had his own computer and printer, we vetted all games (no first person shooter games). Homework happened before anything fun immediately after dinner (or he could do it right when he came home from school if he did not have soccer or some other thing to do). He balked a lot then and now as a grown up is endlessly grateful for our strict policy. I realize your situation is problematic since you are dealing with two households with different rules and expectations, but if it were me, I would take *everything* away when he is with you and introduce the exciting world of real books and outside things (like growing vegetables or finding some other outside sport or hobby). Anything electronic should be an earned privilege, not an expectation, IMO.

It doesn’t work that way now.  My son’s new school uses iPads in the lower grades and then they’ll move on to laptops when they’re older.  The younger kids aren’t allowed to take their devices home, however.  

[AgathaC]

7 hours ago, Jane Tuesday said:

There's probably nothing you or H can say to EX that will make a difference. Does H have a relationship with SS's teacher? Could he put a bug in his/her ear and ask him/her to ask about electronic usage at the next parent/teacher conference? (Without attributing it to H, of course.) In my experience, things like that are accepted more readily coming from a third party. 

That would be a good idea except she doesn’t really communicate with his teachers. H is the one who deals with teachers and baseball coaches. She either doesn’t respond to them or gets incredibly defensive/argumentative if they say anything remotely critical. They all figure out early it’s more productive to talk to H.

She told H the grades don’t matter until high school, so no big deal. Yeah, because it’s not like learning priorities and study habits and foundational knowledge will help him when he hits high school, right?

And, yes, he’s had a school Chromebook since first grade. It’s all screen time these days.

 It’s just frustrating. He’s a smart kid. But he’s coddled and spoiled to a point that’s potentially detrimental. Pretty much allowed to do whatever he wants at her house. It’s hard to instill ethics or priorities when half the time it’s all about making him happy. Naturally he gravitates to that at this point. I just hope it changes as he matures.

Edited May 18, 2023 by AgathaC

[theredhead77]

5 hours ago, isalicat said:

And this is why my son was never given any connection to the Internet directly until he was 18 years old and went off to college - no smart phone and although he certainly had his own computer and printer, we vetted all games (no first person shooter games). Homework happened before anything fun immediately after dinner (or he could do it right when he came home from school if he did not have soccer or some other thing to do). He balked a lot then and now as a grown up is endlessly grateful for our strict policy. I realize your situation is problematic since you are dealing with two households with different rules and expectations, but if it were me, I would take *everything* away when he is with you and introduce the exciting world of real books and outside things (like growing vegetables or finding some other outside sport or hobby). Anything electronic should be an earned privilege, not an expectation, IMO.

Ah, yes. The good 'ol days. Life sure was easier before smartphones, tablets, affordable laptops, and of course, before technology became an expected part of the educational process.

4 hours ago, PRgal said:

It doesn’t work that way now.  My son’s new school uses iPads in the lower grades and then they’ll move on to laptops when they’re older.  The younger kids aren’t allowed to take their devices home, however.  

I love that technology is part of the daily life. They won't have the learning curves my generation (middle X) had. I presume they still teach printing and writing, etc...

1 hour ago, AgathaC said:

That would be a good idea except she doesn’t really communicate with his teachers. H is the one who deals with teachers and baseball coaches. She either doesn’t respond to them or gets incredibly defensive/argumentative if they say anything remotely critical. They all figure out early it’s more productive to talk to H.

She told H the grades don’t matter until high school, so no big deal. Yeah, because it’s not like learning priorities and study habits and foundational knowledge will help him when he hits high school, right?

And, yes, he’s had a school Chromebook since first grade. It’s all screen time these days.

 It’s just frustrating. He’s a smart kid. But he’s coddled and spoiled to a point that’s potentially detrimental. Pretty much allowed to do whatever he wants at her house. It’s hard to instill ethics or priorities when half the time it’s all about making him happy. Naturally he gravitates to that at this point. I just hope it changes as he matures.

@AgathaC - you do what you can but it's up to your H to deal with his Ex. If needed, perhaps family therapy, or revisiting the custody arrangement may be in order, but those are pretty extreme circumstances. ThHere is no one right way to parent, and extreme measures aren't always the best solution. Then again, I'm not a parent, so what the F do I know? 🙃

Edited May 18, 2023 by theredhead77

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

I presume they still teach printing and writing, etc

Teaching cursive is going the way of the dodo, which on the one hand makes sense given how communication evolves, but on the other hand boggles the mind with how someone existing today could in their lifetime look back on a hand-written document just a couple of generations removed and be as utterly flummoxed as we'd be upon finding writing from an ancient civilization.

[PRgal]

5 hours ago, Bastet said:

Teaching cursive is going the way of the dodo, which on the one hand makes sense given how communication evolves, but on the other hand boggles the mind with how someone existing today could in their lifetime look back on a hand-written document just a couple of generations removed and be as utterly flummoxed as we'd be upon finding writing from an ancient civilization.

Unless you attend a Montessori.  They teach cursive first.  My son’s current school does not use tablets or laptops (the teachers do, of course) and he keeps a weekly journal.  

[shapeshifter]

15 hours ago, AgathaC said:

It’s hard to instill ethics or priorities when half the time it’s all about making him happy.

Making him happy is better than the opposite. 
Would it bother his mom if you or your H spend up to 20 minutes with him on video chat, asking if he has any interesting homework?  
—suggesting video so you can meet him where he “lives,” but messaging might be even better, and less likely to annoy his mom.

Edited May 18, 2023 by shapeshifter

[AgathaC]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Making him happy is better than the opposite. 
Would it bother his mom if you or your H spend up to 20 minutes with him on video chat, asking if he has any interesting homework?  
—suggesting video so you can meet him where he “lives,” but messaging might be even better, and less likely to annoy his mom.

I doubt his mom would care either way. But I doubt SS would do it. He doesn’t communicate with us at all when he’s with her. (She’s not stopping him — he just has no interest. Won’t even respond to texts.) H has talked about just taking the phone away and/or banning the electronics from our house, but he hasn’t followed through. I stay out of it unless asked.

Nothing wrong with a kid being happy. But I do think it’s a mistake to constantly give a kid what he wants a to make sure he has no discomfort. Doesn’t do him any favors. And he can’t handle hearing “no.” As late as age 10, he was lashing out at her physically when she said no to him on something (I witnessed it). It’s troubling. But I feel like I’m in crazy town because no one else sees the potential for trouble.

He definitely shows signs of screen addiction and while H monitors it somewhat, I don’t think he really knows what SS may be reading-watching.

Whatever. I’m mostly disengaged. But I will say he generally obeys me without question and is polite — because he knows I won’t tolerate anything else and won’t put up with any crap.

[PRgal]

This is a very interesting post that appeared on my Instagram feed this morning about straddling two cultures.  There's so much baggage for those of us who are first/second generation/children of immigrants, and something I deal with all the time (maybe this is better for the mental health thread, but since it's family-related, I'm posting it here).  I'm not sure if I can say it's tougher for people like me or those who come from families where the parents don't speak (much of) the local language or maybe it's different in different ways, however.