Family Ties: The Good, The Bad And The Ugly

[ari333]

14 minutes ago, DisneyBoy said:

Firstly, I just read your story in the other thread not 5 minutes ago and was amused to discover you posting here. Feel no shame about your chicken run! You survived the exploding car - I think that's what matters!

As for your mother, I went through something similar with my own mom where she began to pick on certain things and make them into arguments when they weren't really issues (with me) at all. I was always the one who enjoyed washing dishes after the meal and made a point of chipping in without having to be asked, but I had a habit of always having a snack late at night and leaving one plate and a spoon in the sink. This deeply upset her and began what became an endless stream of arguments about how I "always" left dirty dishes and was a slob. I obviously wasn't and couldn't fathom how this had become a problem in our relationship. At least I wasn't one of those kids who kept dirty dishes in their room, right?

Then, there was the matter of the Tupperware containers that I brought my lunch to school in. I never deliberately misplaced one and can't think of a single time when I didn't come home from school with the exact same containers I left the house with, but somehow containers disappeared at some point and my mother decided that I could not be trusted with the Tupperware. I fully admit I can be scatterbrained about some things, but taking a tupperware out of a lunch bag, eating its contents and then immediately putting it back in the lunch bag is as simple as it gets. There really was no opportunity for me to misplace the Tupperware...but that didn't seem to matter. And so, I enjoyed many rants about how expensive the Tupperware were to replace and how a cavalier I was being with her possessions etcetera, etcetera.

In time, I eventually realized that these arguments weren't so much about the Tupperware or the dishes, but rather about how she felt she was being treated by the family overall. 

Are we related? I couldn't even wash dishes in "the right way." I also could not mop the floor as a 12 yr old kid trying to help; it wasn't the "right way." Yes, I'm bitter and bitching

"You cannot be trusted with Tupperware" made me laugh out loud for the first time today and seriously - I need a laugh. "CAVALIER"  you silly goose! How dare you! :-)

Your last sentence, - How was she being treated by the family overall? (if you want to answer)

Thank you for supporting my chicken run. Surviving is the best part. :-)

My mother calls the shots and my dad is scared of her. So there's that.

Edited February 21, 2017 by ari333

[Splishy Splashy]

@ari333 first off thank you for the nice comments. I owe it all to my parents who have taught me to do the right thing. Sure I still do stupid shit all the time and many times even get grounded for it, but they have really helped me be who I am today.

I am glad you have distanced yourself for your whacked parents because it is not healthy for you to be around them. Even like you say many of things that happen seem petty, but they still have a major affect on you or you would not be talking about them right now. So staying away from them is definitely a positive as far a I see it. 

As for your brother and parents being racists there really isn't much you can do about that hatred they have inside of them. The sad thing is so many people have it and I know I am really young, but I can see that this world is fucked up because of hate. All I can say about that is I keep being who I am and try as much as possible not to let those negative hateful people bring me down.

[DisneyBoy]

21 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

I'm getting to that age where the grandparents, parents, and aunts/uncles of you and everyone in your peer group starts to get ill (dementia, cancer, and heart disease/strokes, etc.) and begins to pass away.  I don't like it and I want it to stop.

*offers a hand* I feel you. If you are in a caregiving situation (or constantly going to hospital visits), my advice is to stay focused on the good moment-to-moment stuff, get as much rest as you can, call upon all the patience you got, and find some entertainment that makes you laugh.

Quote

My mother calls the shots and my dad is scared of her. So there's that.

The reverse, to answer your question.

Quote

"You cannot be trusted with Tupperware" made me laugh out loud for the first time today and seriously - I need a laugh.

That is a direct quote, and you are totally welcome.

My mother, in spite of these things, was wonderful in many ways.

Edited February 21, 2017 by DisneyBoy

[ari333]

3 hours ago, Splishy Splashy said:

@ari333 first off thank you for the nice comments. I owe it all to my parents who have taught me to do the right thing. Sure I still do stupid shit all the time and many times even get grounded for it, but they have really helped me be who I am today.

I am glad you have distanced yourself for your whacked parents because it is not healthy for you to be around them. Even like you say many of things that happen seem petty, but they still have a major affect on you or you would not be talking about them right now. So staying away from them is definitely a positive as far a I see it. 

As for your brother and parents being racists there really isn't much you can do about that hatred they have inside of them. The sad thing is so many people have it and I know I am really young, but I can see that this world is fucked up because of hate. All I can say about that is I keep being who I am and try as much as possible not to let those negative hateful people bring me down.

YES. LET YOUR BEAUTIFUL SOUL SHINE. caps intended

[Splishy Splashy]

22 minutes ago, ari333 said:

YES. LET YOUR BEAUTIFUL SOUL SHINE. caps intended

Thank U so much. 

[theredhead77]

Anyone else have an issue with their mother trying to reconnect them with childhood "friends" when said mother runs into the "friend's" parents at the store (or in a class)?
I'm about 30 years removed from pre-school but my mom does this all the time, when she runs into someone I went to school with. No mom, I don't want to reconnect, did you forget they were super mean to me? No mom, I really don't care what so and so is doing. Mom, I could literally not care less about these people.

Edited February 22, 2017 by theredhead77

[ari333]

25 minutes ago, theredhead77 said:

Anyone else have an issue with their mother trying to reconnect them with childhood "friends" when said mother runs into the "friend's" parents at the store (or in a class)?
I'm about 30 years removed from pre-school but my mom does this all the time, when she runs into someone I went to school with. No mom, I don't want to reconnect, did you forget they were super mean to me? No mom, I really don't care what so and so is doing. Mom, I could literally not care less about these people.

Oh dear god. I could go on a rant, but I'm afraid of boring people. Ive been yapping  quite a lot. But I feel you. I may take a think and respond with a story. I can feel people rolling their eyes already :-)

[ari333]

And apparently we are related as well. :-)

[theredhead77]

7 minutes ago, ari333 said:

Oh dear god. I could go on a rant, but I'm afraid of boring people. Ive been yapping  quite a lot. But I feel you. I may take a think and respond with a story. I can feel people rolling their eyes already :-)

Please do!

4 minutes ago, ari333 said:

And apparently we are related as well. :-)

Yay a surprise sister (I think?)! But back off bitch, I get the house!

[ari333]

32 minutes ago, theredhead77 said:

Please do!

Yay a surprise sister (I think?)! But back off bitch, I get the house!

Ok dammit I laughed out loud LOVE YOU for that < dang I need some laughs.

My mother would not let go of this one. there was a dude, five years older than me, but we went to the same high school and lived in the same neighborhood. Somehow - who knows - HE BECAME A CITY COUNCILMAN AND MY MOM WENT CRAZY FOR HIM ....as a match FOR ME. He was THE BIGGEST CHEATING ASSHOLE. He was married, he came onto me hard many times.,  and I don't do married  dudes. My mom would not let it go.

"Well, I saw (his name here) and he asked about you. He seems interested."

"Yeah , Mom I'm sure he did. He just wants to fuck me and cheat on his wife.. NO THANKS."

And PS

I had a relationship, but not the one she wanted - not the one she chose. I chose my man myself. HOW DARE I .

"back off bitch I get the house" made me snort giggle heheheheh

I don't know how this all got BOLD.

Edited February 22, 2017 by ari333

[Splishy Splashy]

So since this thread is The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly and there has been quite a bit  of the Bad and Ugly stuff. I just want to share that my Family gets to watch me this weekend on Saturday in my final ever swimming event for High School(The Regionals) and I just want to say that without each one of them and that is not just my Mom and Dad, but also my little Sister and Brother I couldn't have made it this far without each one of them at least sacrificing something in their lives over the years so I could go to a swim meet or swim practice. So I just hope I can make them all proud this Saturday and swim the best I can. It will also be a bit emotional for me being the last time I get to swim with my High School team.

[theredhead77]

 

2 minutes ago, ari333 said:

Ok dammit I laughed out loud LOVE YOU for that < dang I need some laughs.

My mother would not let go of this one. there was a dude, five years older than me, but we went to the same high school and lived in the same neighborhood. Somehow - who knows - HE BECAME A CITY COUNCILMAN AND MY MOM WENT CRAZY FOR HIM ....as a match FOR ME. He was THE BIGGEST CHEATING ASSHOLE. He was married, he came onto me hard many times.,  and I don't do married  dudes. My mom would not let it go.

"Well, I saw (is name) and he asked about you. He seems interested."

"Yeah , Mom I'm sure he did. He just wants to fuck me and cheat on his wife.. NO THANKS."

And PS

I had a relationship, but not the one she wanted.

"back off bitch I get the house" made me snort giggle heheheheh

Holy crap! All of a sudden I'm super thankful all she's trying to do is reconnect me with random people I haven't seen or thought about in 30+ years. Thanks mom, but that is what Facebook is for!.

I'm an only child, my parents and I have a warped sense of humor. I'll call and ask to talk to my mom (or dad) and they'll say "[name] your favorite child is on the phone" and in the background I hear "tell [not my name] just a second!". But it's always a different name. I keep telling them if they're going to give "favorite child" to someone else I want to meet them! I'm still friends with my childhood BFF, we've been friends since we were 3. A couple weeks ago she asked if my mom could adopt her so she could also have dual citizenship. I said sure, but I get the house! Her response was "I already have a house, next door!"

When you live in Southern California you take whatever real estate you inherit.

[ari333]

7 minutes ago, Splishy Splashy said:

So since this thread is The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly and there has been quite a bit  of the Bad and Ugly stuff. I just want to share that my Family gets to watch me this weekend on Saturday in my final ever swimming event for High School(The Regionals) and I just want to say that without each one of them and that is not just my Mom and Dad, but also my little Sister and Brother I couldn't have made it this far without each one of them at least sacrificing something in their lives over the years so I could go to a swim meet or swim practice. So I just hope I can make them all proud this Saturday MY and swim the best I can. It will also be a bit emotional for me being the last time I get to swim with my High School team.

You go, girl! Go crush it , my (our) little sister. CRUSH IT.

Edited February 22, 2017 by ari333

[Splishy Splashy]

8 minutes ago, ari333 said:

You go, girl! Go crush it , my (our) little sister. CRUSH IT.

Thank U, I hope so. :)

[ari333]

ooops, wrong rant on wrong thread ;-)

Edited February 22, 2017 by ari333

[bmasters9]

14 hours ago, ari333 said:

Because ONCE when I was a little kid I spilled half a glass of milk at the table and my mother went ballistic. She jerked me by the arm, swung me around the kitchen,  and screamed, "YOU ARE THE SLOPPIEST CHILD ON EARTH"..... on earth. 

How did you spill the milk?

[riley702]

I know it's not funny, but sometimes, when my Mom was extra fed-up with the 4 of us, she'd say, "You're the worst kids ever!" It probably didn't help that our response was "We're number one! We're number one!" I think the difference was probably that we knew she didn't really mean it and that we were loved. Poor Mama. Hee.

Edited February 22, 2017 by riley702

[ari333]

3 hours ago, bmasters9 said:

How did you spill the milk?

It was a glass/cup that was a a little bit wide, too big  for my hand. I was 6 IIRC and it just slipped. Also, as a little kid, I thought she meant everything she said. When I spilled the milk she jerked me up from the chair,  slung me around the kitchen and screamed at me like it was the end of the world.  And it wasn't just that one comment "You're the sloppiest child on earth" and it wasn't just once. Add the other  comments and it sounds pretty hurtful and fucked up .

"You're going to put me in an early grave" was one of her favorites.I really thought she was going to die and it'd be my fault bc that is what she said.

The other favorite was, "Don't have kids. They'll ruin your life."

Maybe I  was a sensitive kid, but those words hurt and I heard them plenty.

If I didn't do what she wanted - and it could be something unimportant, like if I didn't want to go to some stupid party, she wouldn't look at me or speak to me. Also, as a five yr old, she over dressed me for the birthday parties I had to go to and it was not fun. I couldn't join in and play with the other kids. I had to stand on the side and watch them. Why? "because you might get dirty." What's the point of being there if all I can do is stand on the side while the other kids have fun and play games? She had some sort of weird obsession about being "dirty." I wanted to wear shorts, jeans, t-shirts like the other kids, but no; it had to be a "party dress" and "party shoes"  god forbid if they got dirty.

My cousin, K, had a daughter C and when C was a toddler, K brought her to see my parents. They were outside (not making a mess inside) and C was playing in the yard. My mother screamed something about C getting dirty. My cousin, K said, "So what? When we get home, I'll give her a bath. I'll wash her clothes. She's a child. Let her play." My mother was SUPER pissed at K for that comment. How dare K, my mother's niece, make a decision about her own child.

Edited February 22, 2017 by ari333

[ari333]

I remember when I was about 8 I saw an ad on tv for a suicide hotline. I didn't really know for sure what suicide was (I had an idea about what it was) but the ad said, "If you're too sad, call this number." (or something to that effect.)  I called it. I said, "I'm too sad." They asked to speak to an adult. I hung up.  It was 1969. No one followed up

Edited February 22, 2017 by ari333

[DeLurker]

2 hours ago, ari333 said:

Maybe I  was a sensitive kid, but those words hurt

Nope...those words, actions and the frequency at which they happened are hurtful. And mean.  And wrong.  And when directed at a child who has no way of responding?  Abusive.

[Blergh]

ari,

 

 Too bad your mother didn't just buy a Barbie doll to put in a glass case so she could have something that looked pristine, impressed others and never could talk back.

[backformore]

On ‎2‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 0:24 PM, ari333 said:

We were opening gifts and I got a sweater and a blouse and etc. I heard, "When you lose some weight you can get some NICE clothes." Oh really? I'll go buy my own damn clothes now.  I am 5' 6" and at the time weighed 140. Not HUGE.

Yep, same mother.   When my oldest son was born, and was very ill, I decided to take time off and stay home for as long as it would take to get him well.    My mother, for my birthday, bought me a BUSINESS SUIT to "motivate me to get  back into the work world".   And then, for years,  she would always buy me clothes that were a smaller size, because she said having nice clothes would MOTIVATE me to lose weight.   (nope, just motivate me to return shit to the store for stuff I liked better in the right size) 

My mom also used to tell me I would look so much better with short hair.   "remember when you had your hair in a short bob?  you looked so cute."   No, I never had short hair as an adult.  The photo of me in short hair?  I was 11.   Yes, I was cute then. 

[DeLurker]

It is a trap though...if you loose the weight, cut your hair, always have manicured fingers,...it would be something else. 

[NutMeg]

16 hours ago, backformore said:

Yep, same mother.   When my oldest son was born, and was very ill, I decided to take time off and stay home for as long as it would take to get him well.    My mother, for my birthday, bought me a BUSINESS SUIT to "motivate me to get  back into the work world".   And then, for years,  she would always buy me clothes that were a smaller size, because she said having nice clothes would MOTIVATE me to lose weight.   (nope, just motivate me to return shit to the store for stuff I liked better in the right size) 

My mom also used to tell me I would look so much better with short hair.   "remember when you had your hair in a short bob?  you looked so cute."   No, I never had short hair as an adult.  The photo of me in short hair?  I was 11.   Yes, I was cute then. 

Not exactly the same mother but... Years ago, when my son was a baby, I took unpaid leave and looked at other part time job opportunities. One day, when my mum was visiting, I cancelled an appointment (not an important one, mind you) because my son was running a pretty high fever and I wanted to be around to see whether it would abate or would necessitate a trip to ER. Mum was pretty vocal that it was a bad decision and that work should have had precedence (she didn't seem to register that the meeting was not important and could easily be postponed). The only lesson I got from that episode was a remembrance of how, when I was 9 and felt really lousy, I still had to go to school because I had no fever - only to sprout measles during class and to be sent home by an angry principal.    

[DeLurker]

My mom noticed that when my kids were little I tended to ask them "are you ready for your bath?" or "are you ready for dinner?" and she said I shouldn't ask them, I should tell them.*

Since my kids never took the questions as an actual question with an option to say "no", I never thought about it.  I just got in the habit of asking my son (older child) yes or no questions because he has autism and didn't talk until he was 5.  His comprehension was fine, so in our house, we phrased most things as yes/no questions and used thumbs up or thumbs down.

One of my older cousins noticed while we were visiting that I usually gave the kids a 5 minute warning before they had to stop doing something so they could eat, bath, leave...she said that she wished she had done that when her kids were little since it gave them a bit of transition time and would have cut down significantly on how frustrated she got because they were not ready the minute she said "time for bath/dinner/to go".

*Not a complaint - my parents were great and super supportive of me and the kids.  Worded pretty lightly, so more of a recommendation/suggestion than criticism.

[backformore]

1 hour ago, DeLurker said:

One of my older cousins noticed while we were visiting that I usually gave the kids a 5 minute warning before they had to stop doing something so they could eat, bath, leave...she said that she wished she had done that when her kids were little since it gave them a bit of transition time and would have cut down significantly on how frustrated she got because they were not ready the minute she said "time for bath/dinner/to go".

It's weird, isn't it?  We wouldn't treat adults like that ( at least most of us wouldn't)  I once had a parent at my house who told her son it was time to go  - NOW! when he was about to put the last piece in a puzzle.  of course he had a tantrum, who wouldn't?  If I'm reading something, and someone tells me to do something "NOW", I'd want the option of saying  "Just a minute, let me finish."   But when kids are playing, we don't give them the option.  

This especially goes for video games, a lot of parents don't realize how difficult it is to just STOP in the middle of something.  My son had difficulty transitioning from one activity to another.  I used to ask "Do you want to do it now, or do you need 5 more minutes to finish up?"  which worked well, because he was choosing between two options.

[ari333]

Wow. All these stories make me feel less weird and alone.

There was some weird stuff in my family. As I mentioned, my dad is the milder of the two parents, but when he has his moments they are doozies. And keep in mind, this is not some new development in old age. Some of this shit started when I was five. It would be hilarious if it weren't sad.

I was with some other kids. My dad was there and some other mother or nanny/babysitter. We were in a park. All the kids wanted to ride this one play rocking horse thing.

I said,"Is it my turn?"  You all are familiar with that phrase, right? He said, "NO you have to say, 'is it my TIME? not TURN' " Sometimes I think he just wanted to make me wrong. And he would not let go of it until I SAID IT

A friend was at our home and surprised me with front row concert tickets to Kansas or Boston, or one of my favorite bands. My friend said, "Do you want to go?" I said, "Of course!! That would be great!" My dad was in a chair reading the paper and overheard. He said, "NO, that would be WELL. not great" "That would be well?" Who the fuck talks like that ? Even if it were technically correct (and I don't know that it is ). It was just WEIRD.

And god forbid if you said the word. "roof" and pronounced it rue-f. "No, it's ruff."

One time I said, "Tokyo" (Toe-kee-oh) with three syllables.  He said, "NO it is "Toke-YO" with two syllables. Oh jesus please. If these things had been once here and there, it wouldn't have been so bad, but it was constant.

Also, over and over I heard how "careless and reckless" I was I was learning to ride a bike and was unsteady. "You're so careless and reckless." Stumble while playing basketball. "You're careless and reckless."  My shoe came untied. "You're careless and reckless."  I went to get the mail from the box and dropped a piece and picked it up. "You're careless and reckless."

Well, you get the idea. I was a nervous mess always wondering when I'd be criticized next.

Edited February 23, 2017 by ari333

[ari333]

OOps double post sorry.

Edited February 23, 2017 by ari333

[ari333]

There is a good ending to this post.

Thank you guys for indulging me and reading my posts and giving me feedback. It really helped. I had been told that I was too sensitive all my life.

At the end of the phone call, I finally spoke and I and asked.. no insisted, that if they want me in their lives that I'm done with the criticism, the negativity, the nitpicking and word monitoring, the scrutiny, the comments on appearance, my love life, and ANYTHING. 

But first, it started out kind of rough, but I was determined. Here are some highlights of the cray. I made the grave mistake of saying, "holy crap on a cracker." (which has been said on primetime tv where children can hear it.) I was told that was unacceptable. Oh here we go, but wait there is a good ending, so hear me out.

I made the grave mistake of saying, "next Tuesday" There was an argument about it. According to me and my brain, today is Monday. Tomorrow is Tuesday (or aka"this" Tuesday) And here we go. For me, the Tuesday of next week has been "next Tuesday" for as long as I can remember when dealing with ordering supplies, other food items, running a business. Everyone seemed to understand. But NOPE. I heard, "Tomorrow is literally the NEXT Tuesday."

There was some other question. I responded , "I don't think so." Answer: "You literally don't think? You DONT THINK?"

Then I was told, "the correct response is, 'I think not.' " Oh Jesus, ok we need to talk bc you're making me fucking crazy.  (And btw doesn't that mean the same damn thing? It just sounds weirder?)

Since that ballsy speech of mine (thanks to you guys who emboldened me) we have had two normal phone conversations, not long, but normal.  That is unprecedented.   I just want a normal relationship with my parents who I love - before one of us dies.

It warms my heart to read how fellow posters here are strangers yet  are so sweet, compassionate, helpful, and caring.  

Edited February 27, 2017 by ari333

[Jaded]

I posted in the Pet Photo thread about my cat Captain being in vet care going on a week due to him needing surgery because he became blocked and unable to pee. The lady vet he's at is one my friend uses so she was able to talk to her and explain my situation financially and etc.....So the vet says she's going to try and charge me the least amount she can. They called Monday to say he was doing better and could pee again but he'd need to stay until tomorrow or Friday. So knowing he's doing ok so far eased my mind about him. The extended stay has my anxiety high about what the bill is going to be though. I'm saying all this here too for a reason.....

The family sent me a message on FB Friday to ask how I was doing. I told them about Captain and that I was kinda worried about the bill. I didn't ask them for anything at all. They responded with the "we'll pray for him" line and said that maybe I could use the gift cards I got for my birthday and Christmas from Asshole (father) and His wife to help pay for things. They have a way of wording things that really ends up making me frustrated and pissy because I start doubting that I should share how I'm feeling. I knew they'd never offer to help anyway since they strung me along for many months last year after saying they'd try to help with a tax situation with the house after my Mom died. A couple of weeks or so before the court date they came to my home from a state over and started bemoaning the fact that to help me at all that they'd have to mortgage their house or some nonsense like that, that they couldn't do that and how they'd pray that the court date would go in my favor. They knew that from the minute I told them about what was going on that they wouldn't be able to help I'm sure. Still they waited that long to tell me the truth. My reaction to them was a lot nicer then their reaction to me when I had finally told them what I had been keeping in for almost a year about the whole religion situation. 

Feb. 25th was the 22nd anniversary of my Nana dying and 2015 was the 20th when my Mom was so sick that the date kind of passed without me thinking about it as much due to all that was going on. Last year I was in such shock that I wasn't really feeling anything. It's like after the 1st anniversary of my Mom not being here anymore everything started to hit me harder about both of them being gone. Dealing with that, the Captain situation and the family's reaction to it brought up their past behavior which had me down in the dumps more then usual. It made me realize how much I'm missing that little ball of fur and I will be glad when he gets home.  For now I'm trying to live by the idea being set forth by the penguin in this commercial.
 

 

Edited March 2, 2017 by Jaded

[riley702]

(((Jaded)))

[ari333]

Big hugs, Jaded. That whole thing blows, except the good part where your cat is doing better and the vet will try to keep the bill down.  The rest of it is sad and so hard. I hope Captain is home soon.

[DisneyBoy]

I need some advice - at what point do you confront family about them choosing not to invite a member of the family to family functions? In this particular case it's an elderly member of the family who has been nothing but nice to everybody but has been strategically left out of all family events and holidays.

A baptism is on the horizon and I was invited to attend by relatives who haven't spoken to me at this point in several years. We never had a falling out and we don't live far away from one another. For whatever reason this is the second time these particular relatives have had a baptism and told me that an elderly family member is not invited. I'm baffled as to what to do. On the one hand I want to confront them because I can't think of a single reason why this person wouldn't be welcome to attend, or why they wouldn't out of nothing more than politeness extend an invitation knowing there's a high chance that they wouldn't even come.

But I also recognize that if I bring it up and try to force a conversation about it I will be considered someone who's being aggressive and pushy. You get nowhere in life by telling people how they should and should not behave. Nobody likes to be condescended to and I feel like that's what the response will be if I try to explain why this behavior is so odious to me. I mean who tells an elderly person they're not welcome to come to a church?

 

I don't even understand why these kids are being baptized in the first place because I know the parents well enough to know that they won't be taking these children to church every Sunday and teaching them the word of Jesus. It's a formality. It's a tradition. If you're going to follow through with this tradition and invite other senior members of the family to attend so that photos can be taken, why exclude one person on purpose? And then why tell me point-blank that they are not invited and if I am "unable to attend as well" that they would "understand" ?!?

Again, I haven't seen or heard from these people in a long time and was touched when I was initially invited....but the minute I emailed back to ask if other senior members of the family would be coming and if this particular senior could come as well, I got a quick response emailed moments later stating that it was enough of a problem to get the seniors currently invited to the church there.

What I would like to do is call up these relatives of mine and ask them politely but directly if this particular senior has ever done anything to offend them (they haven't) and point out that they are also family and don't have much time left on this Earth. I am sure if I do that it will be viewed as an immature move and the rest of the family will discuss how I angrily called them out to have an argument.

At the end of the day I'm just so disappointed in these relatives of mine. I had always liked them and never thought I would be cutting them out of my life but I feel that way now.

Have you ever seen that episode of The Golden Girls where one of Dorothy's friends' dates is Jewish and Dorothy's new snotty rich friend tries to take them to a club that won't allow Jewish people to attend and then Dorothy tells her to go to hell? I kind of feel that way but about my own family. It makes me very sad.

We live in an extremely ageist society and I don't understand it. Old people aren't a hassle... especially if you don't have to transport them around.

At the moment the ball is in my court to refuse the invitation and I'm not even sure how to word that because I feel like being pointed about it but I risk alienating these relatives forever. I don't want to fight with them but I just can't believe that they would be this cold and cruel. After all if you're inviting someone to attend a family function you can't specify that they don't bring members of their family. You can't tell me not to bring my wife or child just because you want to cherry-pick who attends. And if you want to invite me that way, then you should damn well expect I'm going to be deeply offended and want nothing to do with you.

[Bastet]

I don't think their guest list is your business, and thus wouldn't find it appropriate to question them further on why this person isn't invited; you already asked if you could invite this person (which wasn't your place to do), and they said no. 

If the exclusion of this family member is for offensive reasons, and truly is cold and cruel, I think it's great to say you won't be attending and why.  Complete with Julia Sugarbaker-style verbal take-down or Dorothy Zbornak-style zinger, should you so choose.  But that's not clearly indicated here; just because you would invite this person, or can't think of a reason they wouldn't, doesn't mean they don't have a reason that's a perfectly logical pruning of the guest list.

You say this person has been left out of all family events.  Just those hosted by the relatives in question, or everyone in the family who has hosted an event? 

(And, yes, people absolutely can invite you to a family event without inviting your wife and child, just as you can decide whether to attend alone or take offense and cut ties.  Because depending on the nature of the event and/or the reason only you were invited, it may be perfectly logical to exclude spouses and/or kids, or it may be some serious bullshit.)

Edited March 8, 2017 by Bastet

[ari333]

34 minutes ago, DisneyBoy said:

I need some advice - at what point do you confront family about them choosing not to invite a member of the family to family functions? In this particular case it's an elderly member of the family who has been nothing but nice to everybody but has been strategically left out of all family events and holidays.

A baptism is on the horizon and I was invited to attend by relatives who haven't spoken to me at this point in several years. We never had a falling out and we don't live far away from one another. For whatever reason this is the second time these particular relatives have had a baptism and told me that an elderly family member is not invited. I'm baffled as to what to do. On the one hand I want to confront them because I can't think of a single reason why this person wouldn't be welcome to attend, or why they wouldn't out of nothing more than politeness extend an invitation knowing there's a high chance that they wouldn't even come.

But I also recognize that if I bring it up and try to force a conversation about it I will be considered someone who's being aggressive and pushy. You get nowhere in life by telling people how they should and should not behave. Nobody likes to be condescended to and I feel like that's what the response will be if I try to explain why this behavior is so odious to me. I mean who tells an elderly person they're not welcome to come to a church?

 

I don't even understand why these kids are being baptized in the first place because I know the parents well enough to know that they won't be taking these children to church every Sunday and teaching them the word of Jesus. It's a formality. It's a tradition. If you're going to follow through with this tradition and invite other senior members of the family to attend so that photos can be taken, why exclude one person on purpose? And then why tell me point-blank that they are not invited and if I am "unable to attend as well" that they would "understand" ?!?

Again, I haven't seen or heard from these people in a long time and was touched when I was initially invited....but the minute I emailed back to ask if other senior members of the family would be coming and if this particular senior could come as well, I got a quick response emailed moments later stating that it was enough of a problem to get the seniors currently invited to the church there.

What I would like to do is call up these relatives of mine and ask them politely but directly if this particular senior has ever done anything to offend them (they haven't) and point out that they are also family and don't have much time left on this Earth. I am sure if I do that it will be viewed as an immature move and the rest of the family will discuss how I angrily called them out to have an argument.

At the end of the day I'm just so disappointed in these relatives of mine. I had always liked them and never thought I would be cutting them out of my life but I feel that way now.

Have you ever seen that episode of The Golden Girls where one of Dorothy's friends' dates is Jewish and Dorothy's new snotty rich friend tries to take them to a club that won't allow Jewish people to attend and then Dorothy tells her to go to hell? I kind of feel that way but about my own family. It makes me very sad.

We live in an extremely ageist society and I don't understand it. Old people aren't a hassle... especially if you don't have to transport them around.

At the moment the ball is in my court to refuse the invitation and I'm not even sure how to word that because I feel like being pointed about it but I risk alienating these relatives forever. I don't want to fight with them but I just can't believe that they would be this cold and cruel. After all if you're inviting someone to attend a family function you can't specify that they don't bring members of their family. You can't tell me not to bring my wife or child just because you want to cherry-pick who attends. And if you want to invite me that way, then you should damn well expect I'm going to be deeply offended and want nothing to do with you.

Some folks have a good reason for whatever  and some folks are just mean.... and cruel.  I feel you on this one. You cant tell them what to do with their function and guest list, but you don't have to show up either. I feel you. That will make your statement if you need to make one.

[DisneyBoy]

I hear you both. I just feel so damn sad. I want to have an actual conversation about whatever is going on. This senior hasn't been invited to anything in over four years. Nothing. Imagine if everyone in your family just turned around one day and acted like you didn't exist and froze out anybody who mentioned you period and the saddest part is I don't even think that they realize they're doing it. It's just more convenient to not have to worry about one more senior because seniors are such a hassle, right?

...

And there's nobody else who would bring this up with them to try and sort it out, so if all I do is simply decline the invitation and leave it at that, which Miss Manners would certainly approve of, the situation stays exactly the same and I end up looking like the bitter guy who purposefully cuts himself out of people's lives for seemingly no good reason.

What's the use in all of this politeness and all of these shows of respect if they aren't returned and they just leave you with a family of people who don't actually care about each other?

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

This senior hasn't been invited to anything in over four years. Nothing. Imagine if everyone in your family just turned around one day and acted like you didn't exist and froze out anybody who mentioned you period and the saddest part is I don't even think that they realize they're doing it. It's just more convenient to not have to worry about one more senior because seniors are such a hassle, right?

Are you sure that's what is going on?  Because if everyone excludes this person in recent years, even freezing out people who mention her/him, yet other seniors are invited, there must be something more than "Old people, yuck" behind the exclusion. 

So if there is some horrible witch hunt by the whole rest of the family against this one relative going on, I think you should get your righteous indignation on and tell all those people about themselves; stand up for the unfairly maligned (and take the poor black sheep on a nice little outing the day of the baptism; the two of you have a good time together and to hell with the rest of 'em).  But if there isn't some ugly reason behind all this, I think you need to allow for the fact other family members feel differently about this person than you do (they don't have to be close to or even like someone just because they're related to them), and either attend or stay home based on your interest in celebrating the occasion, but otherwise stay out of it.

You obviously know the people involved and I don't, so all I can go on is what you've detailed.  And I read it and think, okay, they're not close to this person and thus didn't invite her/him.  Or maybe they're assholes.  And then I read more and think, okay, so a bunch of people stopped inviting her/him four years ago -- perhaps something happened, and there's a reason she/he is persona non grata.  Or maybe they're assholes.  So if they're all being assholes, I'm in favor of trying to figure out why they up and decided to be that way four years ago.  I'm just saying that, from the few details described, there's nothing that points strongly to asshole from this outsider's perspective.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Bastet

[ari333]

2 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

I hear you both. I just feel so damn sad. I want to have an actual conversation about whatever is going on. This senior hasn't been invited to anything in over four years. Nothing. Imagine if everyone in your family just turned around one day and acted like you didn't exist and froze out anybody who mentioned you period and the saddest part is I don't even think that they realize they're doing it. It's just more convenient to not have to worry about one more senior because seniors are such a hassle, right?

...

And there's nobody else who would bring this up with them to try and sort it out, so if all I do is simply decline the invitation and leave it at that, which Miss Manners would certainly approve of, the situation stays exactly the same and I end up looking like the bitter guy who purposefully cuts himself out of people's lives for seemingly no good reason.

What's the use in all of this politeness and all of these shows of respect if they aren't returned and they just leave you with a family of people who don't actually care about each other?

I feel the same as you do and wanted to say that, but I didn't feel I could tell someone who to invite. I'm old now so I'd probably bring it up as you want to do. As a younger person I'd have been too scared, so I admire your ... moxie?  I would probably choose someone and have to say something and find out what the real thing is. Clearly there is something.

[DisneyBoy]

Thank you everyone for listening - this is a really hard situation and I don't talk about it often.

I know I've already lost this battle to try and keep this person connected to these other relatives. I can't force them to value this elderly person who they clearly don't have time for and don't miss having around. And I know better than to question people on who they choose to invite to their events, but I honestly don't see myself ever forgiving them for singling out this person who has never been anything other than nice and pointedly saying that they are not welcome to attend.

I grew up really believing in the concept of family, that it was something strong, a bond that overcame all the other emotional problems that tear relationships apart. I mean, people always talk about how when things get dangerous and scary, the only people you can ever rely on is family because nobody else will care if you live or die. And here I am, grown and seeing that family can legitimately not care whether you live or die at all. I realize how incredibly naive it sounds to be bemoaning this, especially considering how horrendous some families are. I don't think this one qualifies as the worst family ever but I guess I just thought people had more pride in how they treated others than they do. Maybe I'm talking out of my butt here, but I'm the type of person who makes a point of including people especially if they are someone who tends to be left on the sidelines. I guess I want to believe in a world where no one is left in the dust.

I didn't send a reply email today so I guess I have to send or say something by tomorrow. I'm tempted to call up and have a conversation over the phone rather than send an email that will surely come off as curt. I have a friend who says that I shouldn't give these people another thought because they clearly aren't worth it. It's hard for me to give up on people like that. I can accept that the senior isn't going to attend the function ( and again, the whole thing's bit of an overblown affair), but I guess my frustration runs to the deeper fact that no one has reached out to them in four years for any reason, regardless of the status of their health or circumstances. And I have no right to expect an answer to why that is the case. I don't think that these people maliciously turned a blind eye to someone, but the facts remain the same regardless of intent.

Plus it's hard being the person most upset in a situation where everybody else is completely indifferent, LOL. This senior is unaware of the baptism, which spares their feelings but leaves me feeling like I'm keeping a secret.

 

Anyways, thanks again for listening and I'm sorry to be so vague and so frustrated.

[riley702]

Wouldn't hurt to just ask what happened. All they can do is say they don't want to talk about it. And they might tell you.

[NutMeg]

@DisneyBoy, I feel for you in this situation, but I am with Bastet here.

While I get that you would like to know the reasons behind the snub, if the people concerned haven't told you it's likely that they'd rather keep them to themselves. I see it as rather a point in their favour, in that it might signal that they actually have a valid reason but it only/mostly regards their personal relationship, and they're not going to tarnish/gossip about the excluded person to convince you.

Families can have weird dynamics. Be glad the elder has no idea he/she is being snubbed. Attend or not, based on how you feel about the people doing the invite, not about who they invited or not. Or don't attend, but then there goes a chance to accidentally learning more about the reasons of the feud (I kid, I kid). 

[DeLurker]

@DisneyBoy - it is an odd situation and puts you in an awkward place. 

Is it possible that the specifically excluded person has done something that is a legitimate concern to the rest of the family that you are unaware of?  Maybe somehow been inappropriate in behavior? 

I mean, it was the worst kept secret in our extended family that girls shouldn't be left alone in the care of a particular cousin.  A better kept secret was my grandfather tried to grope and kiss another cousin.  She only told my Mom. 

But with the excluded family members advancing age, some inappropriate behavior might be a sign of his declining mental or physical condition.  My Dad's at the point where he's had a lot of health issues and his grasp on reality is starting to slip at times.  And so concerns with him saying something offensive out of the blue exist, but so do concerns of him saying something especially hurtful to some of his grandchildren that are dealing with issues like being transgender or bisexual.  Would my Dad, their Grandfather, intentionally say something to hurt their feelings or make them feel like something is wrong with them?  Not prior to his mental decline.  But he was born in a very different time and raised strict Catholic.

Anyway...whatever you decide to do isn't a matter of taking sides.

[Treehugger]

On 3/9/2017 at 1:00 AM, DisneyBoy said:

Thank you everyone for listening - this is a really hard situation and I don't talk about it often.

I know I've already lost this battle to try and keep this person connected to these other relatives. I can't force them to value this elderly person who they clearly don't have time for and don't miss having around. And I know better than to question people on who they choose to invite to their events, but I honestly don't see myself ever forgiving them for singling out this person who has never been anything other than nice and pointedly saying that they are not welcome to attend.

I grew up really believing in the concept of family, that it was something strong, a bond that overcame all the other emotional problems that tear relationships apart. I mean, people always talk about how when things get dangerous and scary, the only people you can ever rely on is family because nobody else will care if you live or die. And here I am, grown and seeing that family can legitimately not care whether you live or die at all. I realize how incredibly naive it sounds to be bemoaning this, especially considering how horrendous some families are. I don't think this one qualifies as the worst family ever but I guess I just thought people had more pride in how they treated others than they do. Maybe I'm talking out of my butt here, but I'm the type of person who makes a point of including people especially if they are someone who tends to be left on the sidelines. I guess I want to believe in a world where no one is left in the dust.

I didn't send a reply email today so I guess I have to send or say something by tomorrow. I'm tempted to call up and have a conversation over the phone rather than send an email that will surely come off as curt. I have a friend who says that I shouldn't give these people another thought because they clearly aren't worth it. It's hard for me to give up on people like that. I can accept that the senior isn't going to attend the function ( and again, the whole thing's bit of an overblown affair), but I guess my frustration runs to the deeper fact that no one has reached out to them in four years for any reason, regardless of the status of their health or circumstances. And I have no right to expect an answer to why that is the case. I don't think that these people maliciously turned a blind eye to someone, but the facts remain the same regardless of intent.

Plus it's hard being the person most upset in a situation where everybody else is completely indifferent, LOL. This senior is unaware of the baptism, which spares their feelings but leaves me feeling like I'm keeping a secret.

 

Anyways, thanks again for listening and I'm sorry to be so vague and so frustrated.

@DisneyBoy, there's no need to apologize for being frustrated.  I think that you feel as though you're vague with us because you don't have all of the information.

Sometimes family members just simply can't provide all of the information because it would tear the family apart.  One of my children was molested by my cousin when my child was five and six years old.  To have divulged this fact to my grandmother would have devastated her.  I did tell my mom why my family would no longer be associating closely with my aunt, uncle and cousins, particularly the cousin I refer to as the "rapist".  My mom's response was to admonish me that my child should better understand the boundaries of good touch versus bad touch.  My mom was a strong woman who loved her family dearly, but she let her grandchild down with such an awful approach of blaming the victim.  If I would have tried to talk about this with my aunt and uncle, the victim blaming would have been even worse.  Suffice it to say that this particular cousin has since had other deviant information come to light.

My child is now 30 and has survived three suicide attempts.  Thank the lord that my child is now married to a wonderful, understanding partner.  However, the sense of betrayal that I feel with family members has not gone away.  I also feel a sense of guilt that if only I could have been strong enough to resist the family pressure and been able to divulge the truth that possibly my cousin would have been prevented from hurting others.  When I start feeling guilty, I have to work through a lengthy conversation in my head in regards to the fact that my aunt and uncle spent close to $100,000 in legal fees getting my cousin acquitted of charges of indecent public exposure.  

So in the long run, I can't tell you if I did the right thing or the wrong thing in not blowing up the family 25 some years ago.  My grandmother passed in 2013, and my mother passed in 2014.  Since then, the information has been shared with some of my other relatives, through an aunt and uncle I did trust all those many years ago.  I doubt the rapist's parents know the truth or otherwise I would have been accosted by now.  I can tell you that if anyone would ask me about the awkwardness that is felt amongst family members that I would not be divulging this information unless someone else had already confirmed it.  In my view, this information is confidential to my child and should only be confirmed by child if and when he/she is comfortable in confirming it.  Even now, I am trying to write this with such care so that I don't betray my child's identity.  

I'm not telling you this because of anything in your family history that makes me suspect there was abuse.  

Simply, maybe something happened with this elderly relative many years ago that other family members now feel free to establish boundaries.  Or something may have happened recently with this elderly relative, such as speculated by DeLurker.  The only reason that I share my child's painful story with you is that all our families are full of flawed people, and the reason behind not including this elderly relative in family gatherings might be of such a confidential nature that you may never know the truth.  

[riley702]

(((Treehugger)))

[Jaded]

I hesitated on updating the Fam about Cappers again after he came home mainly because I kept falling asleep before 2am. I try to reply between 2am and 5am so I get no immediate response. The other reason was I had a feeling they'd bring up AH (father) and/or his 4th wife again in some other way besides telling me to spend the giftcards I got from them on my birthday and for Christmas on Capper's vet bill.

I was right about my feeling apparently. I haven't opened the FB message completely from what I can see of it though the Aunt mentions 4th wife and something in a 2nd message about mentioning how she thought they (I guess meaning AH too) could give me a lot of support. AH and the cousin @Treehugger mentioned have something in common that either the Fam acts oblivious to or they don't know even though it was brought up in divorce court when I was young and AH's sister (different aunt) had to testify. The other option on their perspective is they fully believe AH's assertion that my Nana and Mom brainwashed me. The only time Fam has really said anything specific about me not having contact with AH in over 25 years is when they came over one of the first times last year. They said they didn't really know why my Mom and AH got divorced besides the fact that they "grew apart".

I don't know if Aunt was intentionally trying to manipulate me into speaking with AH and wife by using Cappers or not. I just know nobody from his side of the family is going to succeed in getting me to respond to either him or 4th wife unless I want to and no amount of gift cards or anything else will make me feel like I am obligated to.

Sometimes I feel like I've revealed to much in this thread and think about what would happen if the Fam somehow discovered my posts. Then I think about the way they've treated me so far since they started coming over which makes me remind myself that I've exhausted myself at times worrying so much about what others think or if I might hurt them when I rarely get that in return.

[DeLurker]

@Jaded - I am so sorry that you had to go through what you did and am so glad that your Mom and Nana took the steps to protect you from further exposure.  It sounds like they are trying to promote you to reach out to AH for help, but I would suspect that might be to let him be part of your life again. 

What they know or don't know is irrelevant - don't allow them to force a conversation that you don't want.  There may be a time for that, but you'll have to be the one to decide.

@Treehugger - sending good thoughts to you and your daughter.  I can't imagine the emotions you've had to deal with - just reading our post, as obliquely worded as it is, gives me a visceral reaction.  Please do not feel that if you had handled the situation differently all those years ago, that there would definitely be a different outcome.  This did not take place in a vacuum and there would be a myriad of people and reactions so with each scenario, there are endless possibilities.  Your most important priority at that point was taking care of your daughter.  I suspect strongly a different handling of it on your part would have put you under attack from the rest of the family.  At that point, your daughter could not have spared a nano-particle of your attention, love and support.

[DisneyBoy]

Wow, Treehugger. Talk about a parent's worst nightmare. I am horrified just thinking of the turmoil that must have put you through...having to process that...*hugs*

Quote

I'm not telling you this because of anything in your family history that makes me suspect there was abuse....all our families are full of flawed people, and the reason behind not including this elderly relative in family gatherings might be of such a confidential nature that you may never know the truth.

I can safely say, with 100% certainty, this elder did not as much as call the relatives in question a bad name. My desire to keep anonymous has left this story sounding like a "...but what did they do that can't be discussed?" tale. Apologies.

I truly believe this is a case of the family deeming this elder "too old" to be included. Granted, these relatives were never especially close with the elder in question, but their other older relatives were, and I certainly am. We all used to spend holidays together.

I still haven't replied, which I guess is a reply in itself. Yes, I could go to the lunch and baptism and feel the situation out/see where they're coming from/play along...but I honestly would rather spend that time with the elder. I wouldn't feel right attending knowing they're all alone.

Anyways, all I can say is, if people have loved you and been good people all their lives, love them back when they get old. We may not be a society that believes in pushing seniors out to sea on ice floats, but you'd be amazed how busy everyone becomes once someone becomes old or in some way limited. The principal still applies.

[backformore]

@DisneyBoy -  I wonder - is the older person who is being excluded in need of transportation to and from an event?  I just asked because my husband's family had a situation where, if you invited his aunt to a party,  it was assumed you would pick her up and take her to the party, and drive her home when she wanted to leave (often very early, like immediately after she ate).  she got invited to parties less often, because it just wasn't fun to be expected to leave your own kid's birthday party to drive Auntie home.   Yeah, sometimes, someone else could drive her, but she pretty much assumed whoever was throwing the party was going to provide transportation.   Just a thought.

[DisneyBoy]

I have traditionally handled all transportation, but yes, that's something I know the relatives find inconvenient (they're bringing other seniors as well). If I'm doing all the transporting though - what's the issue?

:( As you can see from all these posts, I have a lot to say to these folks, and it would all certainly sound argumentative. I see no good reason to have not even thrown an invite out there out of respect.

I'll stop grumbling now, though. I have a cold brewing and need some shut eye.

[riley702]

FWIW, I think you're handling it well. I'm glad my dysfunctional family isn't that bad, though when my uncle died a few years ago without a will, his 2 living siblings tried to clean out everything for themselves. State law says that's not how it works. It's split between siblings, and if a sibling has already died, their share is split between their kids. When he was incoherent in the nursing home, one brother flew up from Florida with a form for his brother to sign over all of his Edward Jones investment funds. My cousin came to visit as he was leaving, and my uncle told her his brother Bill had just been to see him (Bill died 25 years ago). She filed a complaint with the court and he had to surrender what he hadn't already spent. The two siblings cleaned out his house during the visitation and took everything that wasn't nailed down. They got away with that. They're also angry that his funeral expenses were deducted before the funds were split. And they're pissed at the rest of the family for stopping them and won't speak to us now. SMH.

Edited March 12, 2017 by riley702