Family Ties: The Good, The Bad And The Ugly

[Bastet]

My dad's hearing was damaged by his time in the National Guard, which has led to some memorable incidents of mishearing things over the years.  When a little kid at a campground introduced himself as Matthew, my dad heard it as "Biffy."  Now, the kid was kind of mumble-mouthed as kids can be, but Biffy?  So, to this day, when my dad gets a name wrong, my mom and I say, "Biffy?"

 

Then a few years ago at a semi-fancy restaurant, I cannot for the life of me remember what my mom or I said, but my dad misheard it in a way that would make no sense and thus repeated back in a questioning tone, "He died a Baptist?"  (The "he" was right, but that's it.)  We laughed so hard and for so long, I'm surprised we weren't asked to leave.

[DeLurker]

My dad's hearing was damaged by his time in the National Guard, which has led to some memorable incidents of mishearing things over the years.     

 

Dad hear's 90% of what you say but fills in the last part with something that makes no sense and basically says WTF?

 

Example:

I watched a repeat of NCIS on television last night.

Dad hears: I watched a repeat of NCIS in Belgium last night.

 

Question:  Does anyone, or their family, feel there is something shameful about being the one to ask for a divorce?  My parents, and the rest of the universe, were thrilled when I filed because the ex was an abusive psycho, but when my brothers have talked about divorce my Mom and Dad have both said "She is the one that should file because she is the one at fault!"

 

Granted the s-i-ls in question are not anyone's favorite people - they are both abrasive, manipulative, and unpleasant sorts; however, they always have been so this is no surprise.   And I am sure my brothers are not the easiest people to live with (although they are generally more palatable than the wives).

 

I would have been pissed if my ex was the one to file after I put up with his brand of crazy for so long.

[Betweenyouandme]

I don't. My family was happy I got a divorce given the circumstances. They'd be worried and unsupportive though if I just wanted a divorce for reasons they found not a big deal, I think, especially since I can't really take care of myself well. But, they'd step in to help again. So, in the end, they'd get over it. And shame wouldn't really be the issue. My parents are focused on money and stability.

[DeLurker]

Interesting...just talked to one of my brothers yesterday.  In the past couple of years he has come up with an assortment of tales from our family history that do not reconcile with what anyone else remembers.  When told "That never happened!" he cannot be convinced, even if it is our Mom telling him.

 

Yesterday he told me about a time where he (Brother 2)  got grounded for fighting with Brother 3.  They were grounded for 2 weeks.  He claims that Brother 3 was let off from grounding after 3 days but he had to serve the full two weeks.  He said my parents explained "That 2 weeks was too long for Brother 3".

 

My parents ran a very democratic household and such latitude in lifting a punishment was unheard of.  If such favortism was shown, the collective children would have rioted on principle.  And it would have been preserved in family lore to whip out against our parents the next time one of us got grounded.

 

I would sooner believe that Mother Teresa kicked puppies in her spare time.

[Quof]

I used to date a guy whose nose had clearly been broken in childhood and not set properly.  He often told the story of how he, as a toddler, climbed up on the kitchen counter to get a cookie, fell, and broke his nose.  His older sister was present once when he told the story and said "Good god, do you still believe that story?  Let me tell you what really happened.  I hated you. So I dropped you on your face."

[Quof]

Well, today has been fun.

 

My mother calls rarely, and I will let her call several times before I pick up, because I'm rarely in the mood to deal with her.  She asked today why I so rarely speak with her. 

 

There are a number of reasons, as I've discussed earlier in this thread.  But today I said "Because you are a shameless gossip.  I don't tell you anything about my life because I know you will immediately turn around and tell everyone you know, and it's not their business.  You have no understanding of what's private and personal, because you enjoy the attention you get from sharing other people's news.   Our conversations consist of you telling me about everyone you know, and what they're doing, and then expressing your opinion about why it's wrong."  She seemed shocked.  I said "Has no one ever called you a gossip?"  "No." 

 

So I issued her a challenge, to go 24 hours without telling a story about other people unless it involved her.  She can talk about what her friend Carol did, only if she did it with her.   And then after that, she can tell a story about other people, but she can't express any opinion about whether what they did was good, bad, right or wrong. Because her life is hardly an example of good decision making, and she is in no position to pass judgment on others. 

 

I'm exhausted.

[backformore]

Quof, are we related? My mom does something similar. She talks to one sibling, expresses an opinion about another, the reports the opinion back to the person she gossiped about.

Like, to A, she says ,"don't you think B should (lose weight, get a job, clean her house, dye her hair). " When A answers anything like "maybe, whatever, it's her choice, who cares," mom reports back to B, " A thinks you should ........(fill in the blank with the above options). " She ruined some relationships until we all caught on. Now we just say No to all those probes.

I've also made up stories, told her to please not tell anyone, (nothing too bad), and waited to see how long it took to get around. I told my sisters what I was doing, and within hours she called them to repeat the story. Even when confronted, mom defended her actions by saying she was "asking their advice". She insists she has never betrayed a confidence. Bring up a specific, her reply is to be offended and say it never happened. Needless to say, I don't tell her much. I've had surgeries I've never told her about.

[Quof]

I hear you. I travel to Europe, alone, and don't tell her.  I've had some significant health issues in the last year, she knows nothing about them.  Whereas I know the state of health, right down to colonoscopies, of everyone she knows.

 

But we can't be related - my only sibling is the Little Prince.  You'll know him when you see the sun glinting off his crown.

[Maharincess]

I have a friend like the family members some of you have described.

We've known each other since we were 4 and I'll be 50 on Thursday. We went from pre school through high school together, are godmother to each other's kids etc etc.

She's become a horrible person in the last ten years or so.

My husband and kids have both begged me to not tell her anything about them and I no longer tell her anything personal about myself.

She doesn't know the word secret. She'll take a tiny grain of truth and twist it, turn it and stretch it into something that no longer resembles the truth, then she tells everybody. Or she will take what I've told her and use it against us.

I once told her something about my daughter's marriage. A month later she got mad at me and plastered what I told her all over Facebook. I made up a story once like backformore did. I told her not to tell anybody and during that text conversation she told her roommate what I had just asked her not to tell anybody.

I keep cutting her out of my life but I always let her back in. My childhood sucked. Alcoholic parents who ignored me in favor of my older brothers. They would take my brothers places and I'd get shipped off to this friends house and her mom would watch me. All of my childhood memories have this friend in them.

It's the history I can't let go of. Plus I keep hoping the good parts of her will come back.

I know this is a family thread but after 46 years of friendship. This chick is like family, even though I can't stand to be around her now.

[DeLurker]

I am sorry to hear that - with such a long history, I can see why it would be tough to wash your hands of her.

 

Have you tried having a candid talk with her?  You seem like you are pretty comfortable talking straight with someone (direct without being abrasive).  Granted, this would be a pretty sensitive conversation to have, but tell her you've noticed a difference in her personality and interactions in the past couple years which is a significant change from the person you've been friends with for practically your whole life and who has always been very important to you. 

 

There might be personal problems at play or health issues that are impacting her behavior.  She may not even be aware of how significantly her attitude has changed.

 

I'd probably opt for a letter myself - that gives me a chance to edit myself.  It might end up on facebook or shared beyond the two of you, but if what you say honestly reflects your concerns, than I'd probably be ok with it happening (even if that wasn't what I would want).  And chances are, if she's changed for the worst in the past 10 years, this probably isn't the first time she's risked friendships and relationships.

[Maharincess]

I've tried many, MANY times to talk with her. It's always deny, deny, deny and then cry, cry, cry. If I really catch her doing something red handed, she'll tell me she's dying. I've heard that one about 6 times.

She has destroyed a lot of friendships. The only way she can get anybody to hang around with her these days is to rent rooms in her house to people who have nowhere else to go. Even those people only last a couple of months before they run away in the night.

It just makes me so sad, we've been through everything together, we should have an amazing friendship. Instead it's down to a few texts here and there and her texts are either her begging me to get together or her telling me all of her new (nonexistent) medical problems.

I honestly don't know what to do. I don't know if I should walk away for good this time or just keep going as we have been.

I know she's not going to change because she doesn't think she does anything wrong. It's always everybody else's fault.

She wants to come over on my birthday and I'm trying to avoid that if I can. She frustrates me so much and I don't want that on my birthday.

Edited to say, I've also written her a letter about it and told her how I felt, again it was nothing but denial and blaming everybody else. There's just no getting through to her.

Edited July 22, 2015 by Maharincess

[backformore]

Maharincess - why not just tell her what day you can see her, and plan something fun?  even if it's watching an old movie that has meaning for the two of you, or looking over old photos.  And any time the conversation starts to go where you don't want it,  try this - say something positive, then change the subject.  

She talks about her medical issues, you just say "but you haven't lost you sense of humor",  or "you're strong, you are dealing with this so well"  and then "hey, remember the time we......."  .  She gossips about someone in a way you don't like, say something positive about that person, then switch gears. "Well, she's not perfect, and neither are we, so , hey, tell me about your (garden, decorating, whatever hobby )"   If she insists she's dying, tell her we're all dying, really,and you value the friendship you've had.  then make a "bucket list"  of stuff the two of you want to do together before you die.  Make it outrageous and funny if you feel like it, or real, whatever works.  

 

 Compliment, then deflect. over and over.  Sometimes act a little 'flaky"  like, if she brings up a subject you don't want to talk about, just "oh my goodness!  I forgot the tea!  let me get it! i can't believe how forgetful I'm getting",  then "forget"  what she started saying and bring up a subject you want to talk about. 

 it's tough to do, but try it.  you won't end up feeling GREAT about the friendship, but you might be able to spend some time with her that is tolerable. 

 

When she leaves, pour yourself a big drink and tell yourself what a good job you did. 

then tell us about it. 

[DeLurker]

Maharincess - if I am not mistaken, today's your birthday so hope it is filled with good things!

 

Stewedsquash and Backformore gave some good advice about how to approach your situation (although not the big drink part because I think I remember you mentioning that you stopped a fair time ago!).  I really hope that you find a way to manage the friendship and preserve what you can.  I understand the reluctance to walk away from someone who has been an important part of your life for so long.  Maybe when she starts on the negative stuff say you've been struggling with some of your own concerns and don't want to feed your own negative outlook but would really appreciate spending some time focusing on the positives that you two have always shared.

 

17wheatthins - Again, I think stewedsquash's approach is outstanding and she brought up a really good point as to how a healthcare professional needs to be able to distance themselves emotionally to be effective.  You are in a tough position, but consider whether you would allow your son to get out of doing something that was in his own best interest healthwise because he did not want to or found it uncomfortable/unpleasant?  I greatly doubt if you would allow his personal feelings supercede an informed medical position.  And I would use that exact logic on your Mom.

 

Earlier this year, one of my brothers started to take his 17 yo son to the gym for continued physical therapy (after all the PT sessions allowed by insurance was done - my nephew had major surgery on his legs/feet last year and is basically learning how to walk for the first time in his life).  He ended up signing up our parents (Mom is 78 and Dad is 83).  Mom loves it but Dad has never liked physical exercise so was the tough customer.  My brother works with his son and my Dad to make sure they don't overdue things - basically, he's their personal trainer.  Like it or not, my Dad admits that a number of his serious health issues have improved substantially with his Drill Sargeant son's approach.

[harrie]

Yes - Happy Birthday, Maharincess, with many happy returns.

[Maharincess]

Thank you!!!! Best birthday I've had in a very long time.

I'm kind of embarrassed to admit this because people were kind of making fun of them but I requested and received 3 adult coloring books. I'm so excited. I color a lot even when the grandkids aren't here but I get tired of coloring kids stuff. Being confined to bed a lot these books are going to be great for me.

I got a lot of great presents but my favorite was from my 7 year old granddaughter. She was a preemie and spent 2 months in the hospital after she was born. I'd go up every night for her 6:30 feeding. I always sang "You are my sunshine" to her, when she was old enough we'd sing it to each other.

My girl got some money for her birthday in June. They went to Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk and she was going to spend her money there. She bought me a beautiful square paperweight with a Sun on it and the words "You are my sunshine".

I cried when I opened it. She's such a sweet, sensitive girl.

It was a great, great day!

I may not be the richest person in the world but I'm so damn lucky. I love my little family.

[harrie]

Yay!! So glad you had a great day, Maharincess.

[Maharincess]

My son got me some that were on Amazon. They're different than the ones on the commercial. My favorite one was done by a tattoo artist. Its 30 of his most popular designs.

I love them. I get so bored sometimes, I needed something new to do.

I'll never give them to anynody, I just enjoy coloring them. I feel like a big meanie though, I'm hiding my books and new colored pencils and stuff from the grandkids. They have about 20 color books here and a huge bucket of crayons, these are MINE!

Edited July 26, 2015 by Maharincess

[DeLurker]

Do you have fancier colored pencils or just the Crayola set?  I'd poke around an office supply store or art store andget an upgrade if you're still using the Crayola!

[NutMeg]

She's become a horrible person in the last ten years or so.

 

For what it's worth, my theory, based on both fiction and personal/familial experience, is that meanness goes hand in hand with unhapiness. I have not been able to counter that much (after watching how horrifying a great aunt of mine was to her nieces, and later learning how she had lost first her son then her  young husband), but I know that in some cases when I was felt (such as when my marriage fell apart, I became mean, unable to stand happiness in anyone. I've since decided that I don't want to become a bitter person just focussed on the past and that there is more to me that that, - which didn't come that easily to me. And I still often come across people more intend on going the unhappiness route and the guilt trip, and I feel for them, but I wish they would focus on themselves and their future rather than on the other person they want to guilt, and can end up wrecking their future for, after having wrecked their past with them. I get it, I understand it, but we should be stronger than that, and if one in ten of us can find in a mean person the source of that unhappiness and change its focus to something more constructive, it will be worth it.  

 

 

[Maharincess]

DeLurker, for now I just have the crayola pencils. They are OK for what I'm using them for but I'm going this week to the craft store to see what they have.

I stayed up until 2 am coloring.

[DeLurker]

Theoretically, later today we'll be starting the drive to get to the beach house we're staying at for a week.  Told the kids our departure might be pushed because I need to get things done first (like re-grout the shower so it can dry out/properly set while we are away.

 

My son, who normally has a zen-like calm, came downstairs this morning all set to go (including wearing his traveling clothes).  His enthusiasm and energy are tangible and were an assault on my pre-caffeinated self. 

 

It is both funny to see him so amped up since it is a rarity, but regrettably is coming at the time where Mom is in "got to get this done" mode so I can't properly appreciate it.

[DeLurker]

Got to see my parents when we spent the week at the beach house earlier in August.  My Dad  (86) has been doing pretty iffy the last few years and has some significant health issues.  On the last day when we were packing up our things, he handed me a t-shirt.  It was one that he had from a task force he was on years ago at work.  He said he had been meaning to give it to me last time he saw me, but forgot.

 

I am ridiculously happy by it and him giving it to me!  I have a well deserved reputation for acquiring men's shirts (brothers, friends, etc...)...through college, my wardrobe primarily consisted of Dad's long sleeve button down workshirts over a tank shirt.  But these were "acquired" items, not freely given.  By 21 I was forbidden from "borrowing" a shirt from any of my brothers' closets unless they picked it out for me.

 

Anyway, while being given an old, used work shirt may not mean much to most people, I love it and it has to be the most thoughtful gift my Dad's ever given me.

 

Another great thing from our trip was we played cards most nights.  I was playing a game called 99 with my Mom, sister-in-law and 16 yo nephew.  My SIL and nephew were joking around together, talking in the most horrendous French accents they could manage and laughing like lunatics.  It was so great to hear!  And my nephew's laugh is the kind that makes you laugh when you hear it.

[Maharincess]

DeLurker, your comment made me smile. It sounds like you had a great visit, I'm happy for you.

[DeLurker]

Thank you!  It was a good time and pretty much drama free.  We've got a large family and there can be plenty of angst, but none of the folks that are typically involved with that came.

[DeLurker]

I am so mad there is steam coming out of my ears!  An occassional flame outburst too!

 

Yesterday morning I get a text from one of my brothers - he is feeling awful because he had to put three of his cats to sleep.  Two were 20 and one was 16, but the probability of all three hitting such serious health issues at the same time seemed statistically impossible to me.  But he seriously loves his pets - a multitude of cast and dogs - in fact, he likes animals a lot more than people.  He couldn't even talk on the phone he was so broken up over it.

 

This is the brother (and his wife) I have bitched about before.  Serious health issues, but extreme manipulation of family for money.  Most of it is probably orchestrated by the wife, but it is carried out by him.

 

Anyway, she'd moved up to NC in February, supposedly for a job that was a sure thing.  Well, that didn't happen but she stayed up there and he is supposed to move up there eventually.  Well, just found out she is home for a few days so now, fairly or unfairly, I am convinced she's the one behind putting the cats down.  His birthday is later this week, but she'll head back to NC before that.  It's been at least 6 years since she's spent his birthday with him - despite them both being out of work and destitute, something always comes up where a friend or a relative "gives" her a plane ticket to come visit just before his birthday.

 

I can seriously say I hate her and I am not sure I feel that strongly about my ex who is a Grade A POS.  My brother makes me want to bang my head against a solid object because he is, in all seriousness, one of the most intelligent people I have ever met and no one has ever been able to manipulate him.  But her.  And over and over.  I don't excuse him because what has been going on for all these decades is wrong and a lot of it has happened because of his relationships with out family and friends - we love him.  But I think I am starting to hate him too.

 

In this case, there's no upside for him and no downside for his family and friends (thankfully).  Yet the cats that he loves are disposable because they are inconvenient.  And I bet she has a post on facebook about how sad and torn up she is because her precious babies got old and sick and what a loss she has suffered.  Good thing their only daughter is an adult otherwise she might be put up for adoption.

 

ETA:  Because anger voids my spelling ability

Edited November 1, 2015 by DeLurker

[Mindymoo]

I'm pretty pissed at my aunt right now. I've never liked her or her husband. He's a former IV drug abuser that graduated to Oxycontin. When I was on MSIR and MS Contin (morphine pills) for RSD, he once tried to score them from me, and another time stole them from my purse and claimed that the cat knocked my bag over, which somehow removed the childproof cap from the bottle, and he had to clean them up. In May, when we got together for my Busia's birthday, he was acting pissier than ever, and he sat next to me for a second. Me, being in severe pain from a really bad DVT, said "I know how you feel." He grumbled "No you don't." Then he scootched closer and said "Actually, yes you do. I ran out of my oxy" and then he stood up and walked away. So again, he tried to pilfer drugs from me, drugs I didn't even have to treat my own pain with. Dickbag was exiled from the family for years due to his thievery and drug abuse, but only was allowed back in because my Dziadzia wanted to see him when he was on his death bed. 

 

Anyway, my mom and dad went out to dinner with them, my Busia and my aunt. She cornered my mom quietly, and started giving her shit about me being sick, and said that as soon as my fiancee graduates nursing school and gets out in the "real world", she is going to leave me. Never mind the fact that she knows nothing of our relationship, or of my fiancee at all. She was just tearing me down, tearing my soon-to-be wife down, and tearing my mom down. My aunt heard some of it and stuck up for me, but Busia heard none of it, and neither did my dad. When they were in the car on the way home, my mom was sobbing so hard she had to stop driving. I'm not angry at what she said about me- I have thick skin and I can take it, and I'm just considering the source. What I'm really pissed off about is the fact that this bitch thinks that she can come to town a few times a year, judge people she doesn't know, and act like she's doing everyone some kind of service. And that she made my mom cry. Fiancee let it roll off her back and laughed at the ridiculousness with me, but this bitch made my mom cry. And I don't know if I should tell Busia about this, so she understands why I can't be around them without mixing copious amounts of grain alcohol with 2mg of ativan, or just put up a facade when they come around every other lunar cycle or so. But this shit can't stand the way it is, and you don't come after my future wife or make my mom cry, you walking teratoma. I wish that fucker had stayed exiled, and that we never met that garbage human he calls his wife.

[DeLurker]

First, what (who) is a busia?

 

I don't think you need to decide now how to handle potential future encounters - wait and see how you are feeling when it comes up.  Anything that is going to involve copious amounts of alcohol to even tolerate is something I feel free to opt out of or keep incredibly short (I own the record for the shortest attendance at a corporate Christmas party ever.  This is after I had skipped multiple prior years and could not finnangle out of another).

 

The only reason I would consider attending is so you can be with your Mom when she has to go through these unpleasantries.

[Mindymoo]

Busia is the Polish word for grandma.

 

The thing is, when I know they are coming to town for something and there is an expectation of me being there, I am sick with anxiety and physical pain beforehand, during the time actually spent with them, and for a couple days afterwards. They are loud, hateful, unpleasant people. My mom often skips out of these gatherings because the same thing happens to her. I can't be my mom's buffer when I need a buffer myself. My dad can't stand being around them, my Ciocia (aunt) can't stand being around them, and it's long past the point of "just suck it up and don't let them get to you." I stopped being able to do that when my uncle stole pills from me, and I absolutely refuse to have to endure having my relationship, my sexual orientation, and my health called into question by a couple of morons who act like giving a compliment or minding their business is akin to being burned with napalm. I do know that if Busia knew half of the shit my uncle did that my mom and her sister never told her about, or a smidgen of the things that he and his wife have said and done to me, she would cut them off like a gangrenous limb. I'm Busia's favorite, she loves my fiancee and is helping us plan our wedding, and she would not sit idly by and play nice with this kind of knowledge. My aunt is someone who will talk to you with a sweet and calm voice while holding a knife to your neck. So do I let this shit out in the open or let Busia think that her son and daughter-in-law are just abrasive people in a loveless marriage and that's why no one wants to be around them?

[BookWoman56]

The thing is, when I know they are coming to town for something and there is an expectation of me being there, I am sick with anxiety and physical pain beforehand, during the time actually spent with them, and for a couple days afterwards. .... So do I let this shit out in the open or let Busia think that her son and daughter-in-law are just abrasive people in a loveless marriage and that's why no one wants to be around them?

Maybe I am a heartless bitch, but if being around them causes you that much discomfort, then you need to get rid of the expectation that you will be there. I don't see a need to tell your grandmother all the gory details, but a simple "Being around Uncle A and Aunt B makes me so uncomfortable that I can't do it any longer" should be sufficient. If your grandmother insists on details, then just flatly tell her your uncle steals your pain pills and your aunt says inexcusably spiteful things. 

 

I don't see a lot of my family; I live two states away and so don't generally have to deal with this sort of crap. However, my younger sister is married to a druggie and has obviously become one herself, and so every time they used to visit my parents, things (including pain pills) would disappear. Since my father died a couple of years ago and my mother now lives with another sibling because of health issues, the rest of us have simply made it clear to my younger sister that if she wants to visit our mother, she can do so in supervised visits, but none of us is stupid enough to leave her and her husband alone in our homes to ransack them for pills or items to sell for drug money. We don't see a reason to upset my mother with this info; she is aware of the husband's drug issues but refuses to believe that my sister is also a user, and at this point, her memory is so bad it wouldn't do any good to tell her anyway.  My other siblings and I have simply agreed that once my mother dies, we have zero reason to ever speak to the younger sister again. Because of the thievery and other things she has done, there's just irreparable damage done to the way we feel about her. Sometimes it's best to just make a clean break.

[Mindymoo]

Busia doesn't like them at all either, and only puts up with occasional visits because they have a 20-year-old son with Downs Syndrome who has the mentality of a five year old, and he's mean, unruly, loud and inappropriate- just like his parents! So I think I will tell her that I can't bear to be around them any longer, and if she wants the gory details, I'll give them to her. She's a tough old broad, she can handle it. Plus, I see her multiple times a week (well, not these last couple weeks because I have this nasty bacterial upper respiratory infection going on and I don't want to get her sick) so missing a dinner or whatever won't mean anything because I spend all of the time I can with her. I get quality time with her and an honest, open relationship, not one that's predicated on bullshit and playing on her heartstrings because of the child they didn't even want to have.

[DeLurker]

Busia is the Polish word for grandma.

<snip>

I do know that if Busia knew half of the shit my uncle did that my mom and her sister never told her about, or a smidgen of the things that he and his wife have said and done to me, she would cut them off like a gangrenous limb. I'm Busia's favorite, she loves my fiancee and is helping us plan our wedding, and she would not sit idly by and play nice with this kind of knowledge. My aunt is someone who will talk to you with a sweet and calm voice while holding a knife to your neck. So do I let this shit out in the open or let Busia think that her son and daughter-in-law are just abrasive people in a loveless marriage and that's why no one wants to be around them?

Thank you for the translations!

 

First, I am so happy to hear that your Busia is loving and accepting of your sexual orientation and fiancee.  Often, older* people struggle more with these matters.  From watching scenarios play out in my own family and friends, it can be harsh and painful at times.  In the best of situations in my family, there are still some hurdles to be made but they go a lot smoother if there is acceptance and love at the foundation of the relationship.

 

Chances are Busia is aware of more than you think if multiple members of the family severely limit their exposure to this couple.  No one may have told her specifics, but with our families atypical behavior shines like a neon sign and they are all pointing at the couple in question.

 

If seeing them, or even the pre- and post- effects of seeing them, has such a significant impact - don't do it.  Your health and mental wellbeing don't need to take the hit.  It sounds like the people in your family, who also deal with them, will completely understand.

 

* Actually, people of all ages can have a hard time.

[Mindymoo]

Yeah, Busia's been great about it. Her daughter came out in the 80s and didn't care, and when I introduced her to my fiancee, she made when I call the Busia noise: oooOOOOOoooohhhh. She loves my fiancee as if she was her own granddaughter, as do most in my family.She's even cool with my trans friends. She's a nice, nice lady.

 

I do think that Busia is aware that people can't stand to be around them (other than her youngest son, who thinks everyone should just forgive and forget, but he was very young and didn't know the shit that was going on at that time.) She dreads the visits too, but agrees to them so she doesn't start some kind of war in the family. Frankly, if she had it her way, his exile never would have ended, grandchild or no grandchild, because he's the same monster he always was, and met and married his perfect, hate-filled match. Only now he a monster married to a trust fund baby in a relationship so dysfunctional that Tennessee Williams would have had a field day with it. But I digress. I'm half tempted to write a letter to my aunt and tell her exactly what's on my mind about her and her husband, and that if she ever corners, berates and makes my mom cry again, there will be hell to pay.

[topanga]

Maybe I am a heartless bitch, but if being around them causes you that much discomfort, then you need to get rid of the expectation that you will be there. I don't see a need to tell your grandmother all the gory details, but a simple "Being around Uncle A and Aunt B makes me so uncomfortable that I can't do it any longer" should be sufficient. If your grandmother insists on details, then just flatly tell her your uncle steals your pain pills and your aunt says inexcusably spiteful things. 

 

I don't see a lot of my family; I live two states away and so don't generally have to deal with this sort of crap. However, my younger sister is married to a druggie and has obviously become one herself, and so every time they used to visit my parents, things (including pain pills) would disappear. Since my father died a couple of years ago and my mother now lives with another sibling because of health issues, the rest of us have simply made it clear to my younger sister that if she wants to visit our mother, she can do so in supervised visits, but none of us is stupid enough to leave her and her husband alone in our homes to ransack them for pills or items to sell for drug money. We don't see a reason to upset my mother with this info; she is aware of the husband's drug issues but refuses to believe that my sister is also a user, and at this point, her memory is so bad it wouldn't do any good to tell her anyway.  My other siblings and I have simply agreed that once my mother dies, we have zero reason to ever speak to the younger sister again. Because of the thievery and other things she has done, there's just irreparable damage done to the way we feel about her. Sometimes it's best to just make a clean break.

No, you're not a heartless bitch. It sounds like you've learned that when it comes to toxic family members, you have to learn to take of yourself and  stop being the "nice" relative. 

 

And good for you and your siblings not to enable your little sister--or harm your mother by putting her pain pills at risk. 

[Kate the Great]

This is my roommate, not family, but close enough. I can't vent on Facebook, because she'll see it.

I'm in my mid 30s, professional. She's early 20s, premed, from NYC. We're in a suburban area of Albany. I own the house. She has the upstairs and I the downstairs. There is a staircase but no door separating us, and we share the downstairs kitchen. She has a small Pullman kitchen, separate bath, bedroom, and living space upstairs.

My previous two roommates (both now graduated) have never had noise problems. I can hear her TV as loud as mine when in in the living room. She plays music loud enough to hear the lyrics downstairs too. I know it's her and not me because I've never had a problem before. Things are that loud until midnight or 1 AM, and start again just as loud at 7. This messes with my sleep schedule, obviously.

She has different guys here every weekend and they stay from Friday through Monday. I don't mind overnight guests but they overstay their welcome. This isn't a flop house. Also, her guests arrive at odd hours (like just now at 2 AM, and she turned on all the outside lights that shine into my bedroom to let them in, waking me up, and then "forgot" to turn them off again.) Lastly, the guest's car is parked behind mine in the driveway, blocking me in until who knows when tomorrow. Or, rather, today. This has happened several times before. She does not have a parking space in my driveway, as she has no car.

I have told her about the noise multiple times, but not the guest situation. I don't want to henpeck, since I theoretically don't mind if she has people over, but this feels like it's starting to be rude, if it hasn't been already. She's a nice person otherwise, and I don't want to drive her away, especially as she's paying half of the mortgage with her rent, but I don't know what to do.

Advice?

Edited April 23, 2016 by Kate the Great

[BookWoman56]

I can offer advice on what not to do: Let this keep bugging you until you blow up and throw her out in a fit of anger. I had a similar situation about 10 years ago with a niece who was living with me, and I let things slide and slide with occasional trying-to-keep-it-nice requests to stop doing XYZ, until the breaking point occurred. I seriously wrote a 3-page letter telling her and her boyfriend to get out and exactly why I was throwing them out, and slipped it under her door. She and her then-boyfriend had it coming, and in a weird way it was part of the kick in the ass she needed to get her life on track, but we didn't talk for a couple of years because of anger and resentment on both sides.

 

I do think you need to let her know that the two of you need to have a serious discussion. Can you lay it out for her in terms of all these behaviors, when combined, are having a detrimental effect on your sleep, which in turn makes you less productive at work and more grouchy when at home?

 

If you have that conversation and things improve, then problem solved. If not, well, you've tried to fix it more than once, and if that happens, you need to start looking for another roommate. If this roommate is not willing to alter her behavior and show you a reasonable amount of consideration, then this situation is not going to improve. Also, if you do start looking for a new roommate, have a blunt discussion about your expectations and what things you will/will not tolerate.

Years ago, I lived in Florida which somehow meant that various relatives and friends would invite themselves to visit and expect to stay for a couple of days. (This was a common complaint among my neighbors, so it wasn't just me that had this problem.) I got tired of explaining to drop-in guests what things were okay and which things were not, and finally posted a list of house rules in the guest bedroom and a few other conspicuous places. I found that setting expectations up front made things much more pleasant and in a couple of visits, meant that the visitors decided they'd rather go pay for a hotel, which was fine with me.

I'm not fond of confrontation and I try to be a reasonable human being, but my experience is it's better to have a calm low-level confrontation than one fueled by weeks and months of unexpressed anger and frustration.

[Kate the Great]

Thanks! Some good advice. The thing is that all this stuff is stuff I haven't encountered before. This is my first house as an owner/"landlord", and the last two girls were "ghost" roommates, so I didn't encounter noise and random dudes and whatever. And we otherwise get along. She has a good sense of 'let's be friends as housemates but not be too much in each other's business,' which is important, and we can talk pretty reasonably together. It's just this is kind of inconsiderate, and I hadn't seen it coming (she moved in in late January, so we're still trying to find one another's rhythm for the long term.)

 

I work from home, which is why I'm constantly aware of this, and why it's reached this frustrating point already.

 

When I had roommates before who were loud and noisy twentysomethings, I also was a loud and noisy twentysomething. I don't expect her to be quiet as a mouse, but I also don't want to be constantly thinking, "Oh, that's roommate's music... at 12:45 AM! Oh, hey, strange guy I've never seen before from New York City! Yeah, totally cool that you can crash at my house."

 

One of the things that's going in in the current kitchen remodel is a door between the staircase (behind the kitchen) and the kitchen. Would it be too much to put a lock on it and lock it after midnight? She has a microwave, sink with running water, fridge, cabinetry, hotplate, and slow cooker upstairs -- so no need to be cooking overnight.

[BookWoman56]

If she has all the basic kitchen stuff upstairs for very late night or middle-of-the-night snacks and light cooking, I see no reason that you should not declare the main kitchen off-limits after a certain time at night. However, if you are contemplating locking the door, that means you don't expect her to adhere to your wishes/rules. It's your house and while she pays rent, you are the one with the right to establish what your limits are. It comes down less to whether you put a lock on the door and more to the fact that she is being inconsiderate by playing loud music when you are trying to sleep and bringing random overnight guests into your house, who block your car.
 

I understand how this situation can get on your nerves even more so because you work from home. I do as well, and can see how her actions would be quite irritating. You might consider making a habit of going out one evening a week, or part of the day on a weekend, if you don't already do that, to give yourself a break and also to allow her to have some time when you are not there.
 

The critical thing is that she needs to understand that her actions, which she might perceive as no big deal, are in fact a big deal for you because they are ongoing and not a rare occurrence. In your situation, I would probably set a time frame for how long you can tolerate this before you take definite steps to find a replacement roommate and ask the current one to leave. Have the serious discussion with her, letting her know that the situation is not working for you, and then if another month goes by with no change, things are not going to change unless you get her to leave. She may be a nice person but just not particularly considerate, and she may feel that she's doing things that are normal. But what is normal for early 20s is not always what is normal for mid 30s. Part of it may be a function of age; she's at that point where there's probably nothing wrong with her that five years and a couple of bad relationships won't fix.

[Kate the Great]

She does have a separate entrance in the back. And yes, I feel weird about the guests, especially as they're random guys and not one steady boyfriend or something.

I should have had a written lease but I wasn't expecting this given past roommates.

[backformore]

She has different guys here every weekend and they stay from Friday through Monday. I don't mind overnight guests but they overstay their welcome. This isn't a flop house. Also, her guests arrive at odd hours (like just now at 2 AM, and she turned on all the outside lights that shine into my bedroom to let them in, waking me up, and then "forgot" to turn them off again.) Lastly, the guest's car is parked behind mine in the driveway, blocking me in until who knows when tomorrow. Or, rather, today. This has happened several times before. She does not have a parking space in my driveway, as she has no car.

 

Kate -  This part if a bit scary.   It's one thing to have A boyfriend who spends the occasional night.  Men coming and going at all hours involves some risk to your safety.  

My suggestion is that you have a heart-to-heart talk to her.  Don't accuse her of anything, phrase your concerns in terms of stating YOUR thoughts and feelings. 

State your issues and concerns, and ask her opinion on how she thinks they can be resolved.  Let her know what you need from her, including that you want to feel safe in your own home.  AND to get a good nights sleep.

 

My only experience with this is my sons - each of them had a time after college that they moved back home for a while.  I quickly found out that we had to spell out the rules for expected behavior.  (like no overnight dates, no loud music after 10 pm, clean up your own messes, etc.) With one son, we actually ended up drawing up a contract, and had him sign it. 

[DeLurker]

She does have a separate entrance in the back. And yes, I feel weird about the guests, especially as they're random guys and not one steady boyfriend or something.

This seems like the most concerning thing to me and I think that it is a totally legit request that she not bring a random assortment of pickups into your home.

[Jaded]

Posting this here too. I originally posted it in the 'Pet Peeves' thread not knowing about this one.

I have some family I invited back into my life a few months ago after my Mom passed away and their visits have been ok for the most part. This weekend after they left I was pretty peeved though. I don't drive and that means I don't get to the store a lot. I am lucky enough to have someone who grocery shops for me once a week and am so very thankful for that.

The family stopped by the grocery store before coming to my home to get one of those take and bake pizzas so I had to bite my tongue when one of them started whining yet again about how I don't have a coffee maker or any instant coffee when they known damn well I don't drink it. They come over at the most twice a month for 2 to 3 hours each time and I honestly keep forgetting to put instant coffee on my list of needed items and this last time before coming to my house they were at the damn grocery store where they could have picked up some instant coffee. I stupidly purchased a coffee maker online in a moment of insanity due to feeling guilty. At least it will only end up being about $10 after I send off for a rebate.
 

The Mom also said how she wants to cook a meal for me next time and asking me if I eat any of the veggies she listed and joked she wanted to get a good meal in me. It's just me and right now I don't feel like doing much cooking if any at all and while I appreciate the sentiment I don't feel comfortable having her cook like that for me at least right now. I didn't mind the heat and eat deli pizza since it was pre-prepared. I just wasn't in the mood to have my eating habits criticized by people who don't live with me day to day.
 

They couldn't even rinse off the spatula and pizza cutter they used before on the pizza dropping them in the sink knowing my dishwasher doesn't work. Their dog injured themselves over a month ago so the last time they were here before this weekend was right after that and both times they've brought the dog. This last time they kept bringing the dog up to my cat and while he didn't hiss you could tell he wasn't impressed and stayed on my lap or beside me on the arm of the recliner almost the entire time. He was sneezy most of the day Sunday the day after they visited but hasn't sneezed today which I'm relived about.
 

They come from a state over to visit so I'm thankful that they make the trip but I hate feeling like I'm being disrespected in my own home but don't want to rock the boat too much by giving the snarky replies I want to give due to some of the things they do or say to me. I'm stuck in a rut because I don't have any friends or family here in town really besides the gal who grocery shops for me so it kind of feels like I'm a prisoner in a nice prison called my home sometimes. I feel so lost and alone. My Mom was my best friend.
 

**I didn't see how long my post was until I entered it. Sorry! At least it's separated into paragraphs though. :)**

[backformore]

Hey, Jaded - sorry you're having family troubles.  I hate being criticized about cooking/eating.  I only like having people over on MY terms, I can't stand anyone coming to my house and saying anything critical to me.  I always feel like, if you're in MY home, you have to treat me well.

I hope you figure out a way to make the visits more comfortable for you. 

[Jaded]

Thank you.

I wanted to scream when the fact that I didn't have any instant coffee or a coffee maker was brought up again. It peeved me off so much more then previous times because as I said they had been in a grocery store just a few hours earlier. I think I might tell the lady who grocery shops she can take the coffee maker to work with her if they need a new one for the office or if she needs one personally. Then ask her to pick up some instant coffee since the instant won't take up space on my kitchen counters which there isn't enough of. I don't want the family to know I went to the extent of ordering a coffee maker. 

Usually my home feels like my refuge but after that visit it made me frustrated at how I'm having to be dependent on others which makes me feel uncomfortable because I'm not used to it. I want to learn how to drive but trying to figure out how to get that done is a whole other can of worms. 

[DeLurker]

Jaded - sounds like some pretty minor stuff family-wise (or at least in my family), but it does strike me as overly familiar behavior since you say you've just re-invited them back into your life.

Before the next visit, just tell whoever is making the arrangements to bring some coffee with them so they have what they like.  Plus, if they need sugar, sweet & low, special cream..bring that too.

Look into ways to widen your network locally to offset some of the loss you feel.  Depending on where you live, there might be community services or groups that give rides to do stuff like shopping or doctor appointments. 

Driving is good, but only when you get to the point where you want to do it and are confident that you can.  And depending on how often you would drive, maybe using ride services or taxis is more cost effective when compared to owning & maintaining a car plus insurance.

ETA: More of my local grocery stores offer online ordering and delivery.  Maybe something like that would help too.

Edited April 27, 2016 by DeLurker

[Blergh]

OK, here's a curious thing our extended family recently discovered looking through census records. There's a relative who had living parents in the same town who was listed as having been a boarder in someone else's home AND a widower -at age seven!  Weird thing is that this relative nor any of his immediate family never seemed to mention this part of his life to anyone- including to his children by his only known wife.

[ChiCricket]

On 7/20/2015 at 3:51 PM, Maharincess said:

She's become a horrible person in the last ten years or so.

Right now I'm reading a book about brain injuries and diseases and what the side effects can be. (Rebooting My Brain: How a freak Aneurysm Reframed My Life)

The above quote made me think a part in this book.

Short and sweet, a guy's nice personality changed radically out of the blue. Became an alcoholic, beat his kids and wife. Totally not like his old self.

   Ten years later, he finally went for a head scan and they found an old brain injury from when he had fallen off of a ladder.

    Unfortunately, it was one of those "I'm fine, I'll shake it off" moments that led to catastrophic results when it didn't have to. (Just found this forum,I know this was from way back)

 Just saying, wonder if something happened to change your friend in the last ten years?

[DeLurker]

That sounds like a really good book - I think I need to read it.

Was the change in the guy immediate or did it occur at some point after his fall?

[ChiCricket]

It didn't say. I guess I assumed it started gradually..you know, like you're like, huh, that's not like dad. (Now I wonder too)

[Guest]

On ‎4‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 5:30 PM, Blergh said:

OK, here's a curious thing our extended family recently discovered looking through census records. There's a relative who had living parents in the same town who was listed as having been a boarder in someone else's home AND a widower -at age seven!  Weird thing is that this relative nor any of his immediate family never seemed to mention this part of his life to anyone- including to his children by his only known wife.

My entire family learned that my Grandmother had a twin after her passing when her twin's son started researching his family history through one of those Ancestors.com deals.

[DeLurker]

On 4/26/2016 at 10:58 PM, Jaded said:

Usually my home feels like my refuge but after that visit it made me frustrated at how I'm having to be dependent on others which makes me feel uncomfortable because I'm not used to it. I want to learn how to drive but trying to figure out how to get that done is a whole other can of worms. 

I was thinking about this some more and have some ideas that might help.  About 10 years ago I was seriously hurt and did not drive for 4 years after.   Eventually, I got a giant trike - for exercise reasons plus that way I could ride up to the store and get a few groceries when I wanted (I had moved from CA to TX for medical treatment and my parents moved from FL when I moved to TX because I needed basically assistance with everything throughout the day for several years).  The trike has a big basket in the back so I can fit a fair amount of groceries in there.

The area I live in was well suited for that as there were wide sidewalks I could ride on, it was a residential area with modest traffic as long as I avoided work & school hours and I had 2 grocery stores less than 1/2 mile away.

I can't ride a bike because I have balance issues, but I found the big basket to be super handy anyway.  The trike helped me slowly become more independent, I enjoyed riding it and it helped me gain confidence in negotiating my local area.  I did eventually drive again, but I still have and use my trike on a weekly basis.

Prior to getting hurt, I would look wistfully at a Vespa style bike I would see parked at my office garage sometimes.  It was so cute and seemed like it would be fun to drive!  But I lived in the Los Angeles area then and there was too much road traffic for me to feel comfortable driving something like that.  Where I live now would be perfect for that, but balance issues put that out of the question.

Anyway, I thought that maybe you might consider whether some form of transportation, but not a car, might be do-able and a good step in progressing to feel more confident about driving eventually.