Juliette Silverton: She's A Vet By Trade

[Free]

Did the writers accidentally switch the plots for Adalind and Juliette last season?

 

Maybe, I still don't know wtf the writers were trying to do, that's how much of a mess it is.

[johntfs]

Bitsie Tulloch is in two upcoming movies, Concussion and Dead Draw.  It's probable that filming for those movies overlapped with the time that some of Grimm's fifth season was being filmed.  Evil Juliet might have come from Bitsie's desire to show that she can play someone other than "supportive person with girl parts."  Hopefully she'll come back later in the season and abort Adalind and her Rape-spawn.

[OtterMommy]

Bitsie Tulloch is in two upcoming movies, Concussion and Dead Draw.  It's probable that filming for those movies overlapped with the time that some of Grimm's fifth season was being filmed.  Evil Juliet might have come from Bitsie's desire to show that she can play someone other than "supportive person with girl parts."  Hopefully she'll come back later in the season and abort Adalind and her Rape-spawn.

 

No, Dead Draw was actually filmed about 18 months ago and she filmed Concussion in just a few days last year.  Both parts, from what I understand, are quite small.

[johntfs]

No, Dead Draw was actually filmed about 18 months ago and she filmed Concussion in just a few days last year.  Both parts, from what I understand, are quite small.

 

In that case, I'm going with the "somehow the plots for Adalind and Juliette were mixed up over the course of an entire season" explanation.

 

Either that or someone just desperately wants us to accept the Rapemance between Adalind and Nick, so they had to destroy Juliette's character to do that.  Which is kind of absurd to me.  No matter how much horror Juliette-biest rained down, there's no way for me to accept Adalind and one of her rape victims getting cuddly.  I don't get how the writers and showrunners don't see how utterly skeevy the whole thing is. 

 

Really the main thing this mess has done is to bring into sharp relief the fact that Bitsie Tulloch is an amazing kind and tolerant person for putting up with this and for continuing to cheerlead the show.

[anamika]

Really the main thing this mess has done is to bring into sharp relief the fact that Bitsie Tulloch is an amazing kind and tolerant person for putting up with this and for continuing to cheerlead the show.

  

     She's putting up with it because, as an actor, that's her job. She can't just refuse to do it because she does not like a particular plot. Plus, some of the things she says about wanting Juliette to be bad-ass and have fight scenes makes me believe that her wishes contribute to some of the bad writing for the character.

 

As for continuing to cheerlead the show, her boyfriend is still a big part of it and is getting paid for acting in it. I think they just bought a house in Portland. She surely would like the show to go for more than five seasons because there is money involved . It's a career, like any other and it's a nice thing to have a stable job for a while especially for actors. I doubt she cares a fig about plot lines. I don't think cheerleading the show on twitter is because she is 'amazingly kind and tolerant', but for more practical reasons.

 

As for Adalind/Juliette. Even if the Nick/Adalind plot is cringe worthy and baby plots are horrible (The show runners seem to love them though), I feel like the show can go somewhere and do something with Adalind as a character. There's not much they can do with Juliette.  Mainly because they want to always write her as being the best at everything. She's the best at science: We don't really need Rosalee. She can beat up wesen and shoot bad guys: We don't need Hank.  Even as an Hexenbeist, they ended up making her more powerful than everyone else. And then she's the best at being evil too! She kill's Nick's mom and burns down the trailer. Something the bad guys have been unable to do for 4 seasons.

 

And more annoyingly (for me) the other characters have to speak up randomly in every other episode about how awesome Juliette is. It's like the writers are demanding that the audience like Juliette.  Seriously, I have never seen such a badly written character on TV.

 

If she comes back we are going to get the same old tired plot of Nick apologizing to her for what happened and Juliette being super best at everything. She's bland and boring.  With Adalind, the actress at least brings in some humor and the character shakes things up.

Edited November 5, 2015 by anamika

[ShadowFacts]

 

So, I hope Bitsie is happy portraying one of the most hated characters on television. Because they can repeat the mantra that Juliette wasn't herself until the cows come home. Even my favorite, Rosalee, can defend Juliette's honor, and all that will happen is it will ruin my love for her character as well. From what I've seen, that's where they're heading, and I'm not looking forward to striking this show from my dvr.

Yes, it is a little too much to swallow whenever writers try to rehabilitate a character they have taken too far down the crapper.  I don't fancy it, I don't buy it, and it is insulting. 

 

I just noticed that Juliette's thread has more pages than any other character by far, so in our corner of the world, I guess we really do hate her, or love to hate her and that must be a thrill for the producers. 

[OtterMommy]

I just noticed that Juliette's thread has more pages than any other character by far, so in our corner of the world, I guess we really do hate her, or love to hate her and that must be a thrill for the producers. 

 

I think that there are a lot of strong feelings about Juliette, about how she was handled in the show, and about how she was performed.  I hated what they did with her in season 4 and I felt that her character could have been written (okay...and performed) better since season 1.  But I actually liked the idea of Juliette (until season 4).  I like that Nick had this "normal" girlfriend as she was the only non-Grimm/Wesen, non-Police person in his life.  

 

I think you alluded to the real problem for both Juliette and Adalind.  It's fine to love to hate a character.  It's not okay when people just flat out hate a character (unless it is a short term character who is going to be killed off/vanquished).  The sad fact is that in this show with 4 women, 50% of them are hated.  People like Rosalee, but Rosalee has a purpose in this show that is, I guess, gender non-specific.  I mean, as the owner of the Spice and Tea shop she provides a service to Nick and the plot that has nothing to do with her being a woman.  Trubel, at least so far, is not at all feminine and they probably could have made her story work with a male character (except for the "My Fair Wesen" ep).   Juliette and Adalind, though, are the really feminine characters and the fact that the show cannot get either of them "right" says something about them more than the characters.

Edited November 6, 2015 by OtterMommy

[Free]

I'll tell you what. If there is no funeral or anything, that will be very telling. And it means my nightmare isn't over.

 

It'll mean that all this angst is pointless and that they'll be back at square one.

[OtterMommy]

I'll tell you what. If there is no funeral or anything, that will be very telling. And it means my nightmare isn't over. 

 

Your nightmare isn't over.

 

After having to sit in a waiting room for an hour today, I realized that it is pretty much guaranteed that Juliette is the screaming thing in the cell.

 

Here's my theory (which I actually have a fair amount of faith in).  At the end of Cry Havoc, when Chavez said "Go get her" or whatever, she was saying to go get Juliette, not Trubel (until today, I was positive it was Trubel she was talking about).  How did she know about Juliette?  From Meisner...who would have seen Juliette at the helicopter, but known that she did not get in.  She may even have mentioned that she had unfinished business or crap like that.

 

The sort of clincher for me was Trubel.  If you watch that first scene...right after she shot Juliette with the crossbow (which, twice in earlier episodes, was said to NOT be a fatal weapon), she just stood there.  She didn't go to Nick to comfort him and she looked, what?, guilty?  Then, the black suits come in and, if you watch Trubel, she just stands there, as if she was expecting them.  It isn't until they grab Nick that she starts screaming and they pull her out of there.

 

So, that is what I'm thinking now...that, and I really need to remember to bring better reading material when my kids have appointments.

[ShadowFacts]

Don't worry, OtterMommy, you're not the only one who mulls these things while doing mindless tasks or waiting.

 

I think it's very possibly going to go down with Juliette close to the way you're calling it.  Meisner and Chavez' group working in concert, grabbing Juliette dead or alive (and most likely alive, so they can work on her/turn her/whatever) and Trubel is in the mix either willingly or because Chavez is threatening Josh.  Remember how Trubel took the phone call from Chavez in the finale, I think in Bud's truck, or maybe riding with someone else, and she wanted to cut the call short?  This theory also gives hope to my wish that Kelly is also alive and in on the whole thing, too.  I want to think she was the helmeted co-pilot in the helicopter.  Humor me.

[OtterMommy]

OtterMommy your theory not only makes sense, it will keep me up tonight. Thanks for that! 

 

 

Sorry  (hanging my head in shame....)

[spaulding]

I believe she came out and stated this outright. So, of course she's cheerleading the show. They gave her exactly what she wanted.

 

Which is why Tulloch the actress comes off as insufferable.

 

 

if freaking Blandy McBland Blanderson is alive, Kelly had better be.

 

I agree.  This show is twisting itself to rehab Adalind, to resurrect Juliette, and whatever else.  Kelly needs to be alive too.  This show is a mess, so it might as well bring back a favorite character.

 

Juliette 2.0. Now with even more speshul snowflakeness. I'm so looking forward to the multiple episodes that will be dedicated to her. Maybe instead of watching those I'll go check out some paint drying or watch a house being built, where at least the wood has purpose and personality.

 

Whatever is in the cell is very wild and untamed.  I'm not sure if Meisner is human or a wesen, but he could barely handle what's in the cell. 

 

Sounds like somebody is going to become a more powerful hexenbiest. 

 

If she's evil, she'll have the ability to destroy all the Royal households.  If she's good, she'll have the savior of Portland and will destroy the Mauvais Dentes 2.0.

[icewolf]

Anyone else notice that Bitsie Tulloch's name was not in the opening credits in this week's episode, or did I miss it? If Juliette is still in the main cast then Tulloch's name should always be there.

[Morrigan2575]

Anyone else notice that Bitsie Tulloch's name was not in the opening credits in this week's episode, or did I miss it? If Juliette is still in the main cast then Tulloch's name should always be there.

She could have been reduced from series regular to recurring so her name would only appear in episodes she appears in.

[Free]

I just noticed that Juliette's thread has more pages than any other character by far, so in our corner of the world, I guess we really do hate her, or love to hate her and that must be a thrill for the producers.

 

It happens with other shows as well, characters that are more polarizing are more talked about.

[ShadowFacts]

She could have been reduced from series regular to recurring so her name would only appear in episodes she appears in.

 

I didn't notice if she was credited, but she should have been because she appeared in flashback. 

[Morrigan2575]

I didn't notice if she was credited, but she should have been because she appeared in flashback.

I didn't watch, just going by the poster saying her name wasn't in the credits. If she appeared then her name should have been in the credits, unless it was a recycled clip? Not sure on the rules if they're reusing clips

[OtterMommy]

I didn't watch, just going by the poster saying her name wasn't in the credits. If she appeared then her name should have been in the credits, unless it was a recycled clip? Not sure on the rules if they're reusing clips

 

Yes..it was a scene from season 2.

[Commando Cody]

I was passively watching the credits. I rewound to see if her name was still there. It wasn't. 

[johntfs]

I was passively watching the credits. I rewound to see if her name was still there. It wasn't. 

 

Bitsie's probably been bumped down to recurring for this season.  I will not be surprised if/when she comes back towards the middle or end of the season, either to kick Adalind to the curb or to be the final obstacle to Nick and Adalind cementing their Rapemance as "Twoo Wuv."

[OtterMommy]

Bitsie's probably been bumped down to recurring for this season.  I will not be surprised if/when she comes back towards the middle or end of the season, either to kick Adalind to the curb or to be the final obstacle to Nick and Adalind cementing their Rapemance as "Twoo Wuv."

 

I really think that is the plan, although I think it will be the former outcome, not the latter.  The creative team is savvy enough (let's just go with that for now...I may be wrong) to know that they are in ratings trouble and they have 2 groups of people.  Group A says they want Nick and Adalind together and wouldn't that be great and there are just not enough emoticons in the world to let us all know how wonderful that is.  Group B says one of three things:

1. I quit watching this show when it was revealed Adalind was pregnant with Nick's baby and/or the Nick/Adalind thing became a possibility
2. I'm not watching this show until I know that Nick and Adalind won't get together
3. I'll quit this show if you put Nick and Adalind together

 

So, if you are trying to keep your show on the air, which group would you cater to?  (This theory goes out the window IF they are planning this to be the last season of the show anyway, but it certainly doesn't look like that).

 

Of course, then you have the groups around Juliette's fate to contend with as well...but I think they've already put that one in motion.

[OtterMommy]

I can certainly accept no Nick/Adalind. I have no dog in this race..

 

But...let's not make trailer-burning, mom-killing Juliette Nick's one twu wuv either.

 

If we're not forgetting past misdeeds and just how much people have hurt Nick, then I think we have a winner here.

 

At least Adalind had real reasons for doing what she did. Juliette just has the "she wasn't herself" defense. It's not good enough for me.

 

And I also hope they have the guts to keep her evil, because her going back to cookie-baking and snuggling with Nick on the couch will just be laughable at this point.

 

So, these are Nick's choices:

 

The woman who r*ped him, who he has a real connection to, since they have a baby together 

and

the woman who got his mom's head in a box and nearly killed him.

 

I'm fine with him going with option, "I'm fine on my own right now, thanks."

 

Yeah, if it were up to me (and, frankly, it should be!) I would definitely go for your 3rd option, I just don't think the creative team will even consider that maybe "none of the above" is an acceptable answer.

[Morrigan2575]

I have no idea what they're thinking. All I know is I tuned back in to Grimm last year, to watch Juliette die. I tuned into the premiere fully expecting Juliette to be dead and gone and the minute her body went missing I went "Screw This" and deleted Grimm off the DVR.

I don't want Juliette back, I don't want Nick with Adiland, other than as reluctant partners working to save Diana and having the new baby (which is stupid but, nothing I can do about it).

Having Juliette come back as cured is stupid, IMO they went to far with the character. Having Juliette come back as evil is a waste, they already did that story and ended it properly.

They need to cut ties and move on.

[Free]

I don't want Juliette back, I don't want Nick with Adiland, other than as reluctant partners working to save Diana and having the new baby (which is stupid but, nothing I can do about it).

 

Agreed, all the worst case scenarios are starting to play out.

[johntfs]

This goes back over 15 years, but I remember Angel from Buffy the Vampire Slayer when he became Angelus in the second season.  He murdered a bunch of people (including one scene when he snapped the neck of Jenny Calendar, entered Giles' home, and left a trail of rose petals leading Giles to the bed on which he'd placed her corpse) and tried to destroy the world.  He came back next season and then got his own show.

 

For my part, I'd be interested in seeing Bitsie and Trubel heading to Seattle in a new series called Hex and the City.

 

Also for my part, "she wasn't herself" AKA insanity is a pretty good defense.  I'll note that a good portion of Adalind's bad acts (poisoning Juliette, attempting to sell her baby, helping murder Frau Pech) happened when she was completely human.

[OtterMommy]

From the 5.2 thread:

 

I would prefer it if we found out that being a Hexenbeast just amplifies the traits one already possesses.

 

 

This would make more sense than anything.  Juliette, for example, yes...she made the choice to do all those things.  I'm not about to give her a pass on it.  My theory is this:  We all--at least those of us who are able to function in society--are able to control those deep, dark feelings.  Yes, we may feel incredibly angry or jealous or whatever, but we should be able to say to ourselves on some level that we need to keep them in check or deal with them in a more, um, positive way.  Juliette was one of those people.  She was probably, at a primal level, upset that Nick was not "normal," that because of this her life could be unstable at times.  She liked Monroe and Rosalee, but did she trust them completely, all to the deepest part of her soul?  We can't tell, but my guess is that there was always something there that she wasn't sure about.  Then, there is Adalind, who could have killed her (it is my understanding that, if Renard hadn't broken the spell, Juliette would have died), who DID cause amnesia and obsessive behavior, who "used her" (keep in mind the times in seasons 1 and 2 where Adalind acted friendly towards Juliette) and who stole  Juliette's own being, basically, to sleep with Nick.  Juliette WAS upset about all this--that was no secret.  But how upset was she?  Was she I-could-murder-you-upset?  Maybe, but obviously--as a "human"--she could shut that down.

 

Then, all of a sudden, she's not human anymore...and what if part of that means that she no longer has that internal mechanism to keep all that in check?  Nick has trouble adjusting to her change, and she rejects him.  She blames Nick, Monroe, and Rosalee (and apparently Hank?  I'm not sure how he fits into all that, but whatever) for "changing" her...but she did always blame them a bit for other things?  She wants to kill Adalind--which should make sense.  I mean, anyone in Juliette's pre-hexenbiest shoe would have wanted to kill Adalind.  But we would know that wasn't actually a "smart" thing to do.  Now, as hexen-Juliette who has lost the ability to regulate her emotions, "smart" is no longer an option.

 

And it isn't until the ultimate betrayal comes to a head--when she finds out that Adalind is pregnant with Nick's child, which SHOULD HAVE BEEN her child, as Adalind had stolen her identity to commit the act that resulted in the conception--that she really goes off the deep end.  That's when she burns the trailer and agrees to work with Kenneth.  And, when she sleeps with Kenneth in Nick's bed...that was NOT a case of them being in a bedroom together with a few minutes to kill.

What I'm saying is that the 'biest didn't change Juliette as much as it let the darker parts of her come out.  Juliette doesn't get a pass on what she did, although I would give some room for some, I don't know the right word? consideration? for what she did.

 

As I said, I'm not against her return...mostly because I think "Juliette Silverton: The Winter Soldier" has already been telescoped out by this show and, no matter what, that is far less than distasteful to me than a Nick and Adalind 'ship.  I would even be okay with some re-formation (yes, that spelling is intentional) of her character.  However ,they absolutely CAN'T throw out some trite little "she wasn't herself" when she did this.  There is no rug big enough to sweep that under. 

 

If they are going to make the return of Juliette, if not successful, at least not a major mis-fire, they need to actually deal with these issues.

Edited November 10, 2015 by OtterMommy

[ShadowFacts]

All the awful behavior of hexenette Juliette was extreme vengeance-based. The non-biest woman was not that vindictive, she wasn't shown to have that trait to amplify. Regular Juliette would have been appalled to think of setting up Nick 's mother. She never appeared to consider leaving the relationship so any resentment would have had to have been deeply buried. She freely went into the 're-grimming'. I couldn't buy the amplification idea. Her last non-cursed act was trying to help Nick.

[OtterMommy]

All the awful behavior of hexenette Juliette was extreme vengeance-based. The non-biest woman was not that vindictive, she wasn't shown to have that trait to amplify. Regular Juliette would have been appalled to think of setting up Nick 's mother. She never appeared to consider leaving the relationship so any resentment would have had to have been deeply buried. She freely went into the 're-grimming'. I couldn't buy the amplification idea. Her last non-cursed act was trying to help Nick.

 

Actually, she did hint that she wanted out at Monroe and Rosalee's wedding (well, before everything hit the fan.)  There were also hints in season 1 that she was resenting something that seemed to make Nick's job as a detective more important than their relationship.

 

Yes, she went freely into the de-Grimming and she has no right to "blame" anyone for that (except Adalind, who caused the whole mess, and Elizabeth, who never told them what the side effects would be.  Not that Juliette asked).  But she reluctantly went into the de-Grimming. Remember that she had told Monroe and Rosalee that she didn't want them to find a cure?  It wasn't until there was a very real danger to people that she cared about that she agreed to it.

[ShadowFacts]

Actually, she did hint that she wanted out at Monroe and Rosalee's wedding (well, before everything hit the fan.)  There were also hints in season 1 that she was resenting something that seemed to make Nick's job as a detective more important than their relationship.

 

Yes, she went freely into the de-Grimming and she has no right to "blame" anyone for that (except Adalind, who caused the whole mess, and Elizabeth, who never told them what the side effects would be.  Not that Juliette asked).  But she reluctantly went into the de-Grimming. Remember that she had told Monroe and Rosalee that she didn't want them to find a cure?  It wasn't until there was a very real danger to people that she cared about that she agreed to it.

It's true that she didn't totally love his job before she came to know he was a Grimm, and she was very pissed the day of the wedding. Plus she never did accept the engagement ring, or did she?  Also, she toyed with the idea of keeping Nick de-grimmed.  But in the end she didn't need arm-twisting.  And she enjoyed some of her involvement in defeating wesen, pre-hexenbiest.  No matter how ambivalent she may have been at times, she would never have thought hurting or killing Nick or his mother was acceptable.  Nothing she ever went through drove her to any extreme behavior.

[OtterMommy]

No matter how ambivalent she may have been at times, she would never have thought hurting or killing Nick or his mother was acceptable.  Nothing she ever went through drove her to any extreme behavior.

 

As I said, there was probably some anger brewing deep down there for Nick.  But, I agree with you about his Mother.  I honestly think that the actions Juliette took against Kelly were done in anger against Nick, in an effort to hurt him on a deep level that she hurt at that moment.  Personally, I believed her when she said she didn't know they would kill Kelly--even though I think she was an idiot of immense proportions to think that it anything other than what happened would happen.  I think she was so blinded with all the feelings that had built up over the years, compounded with this horrible betrayal, that she had developed tunnel vision through which she could only see Nick--Kelly was outside her blinders.

[placate]

Can someone recommend another show/movie Bitsie was in so I can compare if she's a bad actress or a victim of bad writers?

[officetemp]

[Moved this from the episode thread.]

 

She's baaaaack!  So how did this happen?

 

Just pulling stuff out of my head:  Maybe Meisner is Dr. Soong to Juliette's Data.  That way, Bitsie wouldn't be too taxed as far as acting is concerned.  She could be the android created using Juliette's DNA.  That would account for the superhuman strength, lack of emotion--or any type of human reaction--and seeming invulnerability.  The plus would be that Juliette couldn't possibly be pregnant with Prince Kenneth's child.  Unless, of course, HW saved the embryo before Hexenette died and brought it to full term in a tank somewhere and the writers are just waiting for the exact right moment to bring another baby onto the show.  Horrible thought.

Edited December 13, 2015 by officetemp

[spaulding]

Yeah, if it were up to me (and, frankly, it should be!) I would definitely go for your 3rd option, I just don't think the creative team will even consider that maybe "none of the above" is an acceptable answer.

 

I'll take it to the Nick thread.

[OtterMommy]

[Moved this from the episode thread.]

 

She's baaaaack!  So how did this happen?

 

Just pulling stuff out of my head:  Maybe Meisner is Dr. Soong to Juliette's Data.  That way, Bitsie wouldn't be too taxed as far as acting is concerned.  She could be the android created using Juliette's DNA.  That would account for the superhuman strength, lack of emotion--or any type of human reaction--and seeming invulnerability.  The plus would be that Juliette couldn't possibly be pregnant with Prince Kenneth's child.  Unless, of course, HW saved the embryo before Hexenette died and brought it to full term in a tank somewhere and the writers are just waiting for the exact right moment to bring another baby onto the show.  Horrible thought.

 

There is a TVLine article linked in the spoiler thread that actually explains what happened.

 

I don't know if it is even a spoiler now as the official Grimm accounts have linked to it, but the gist is:

 

Trubel was sent to "get" Juliette that night, it wasn't poison in the crossbow darts, and she never actually died.  Since then, she had been going through "training" that pretty much broke her down (in other words: she was beaten into submission).  When she got to "that" point, SHE decided that Juliette was dead and decided to become Eve.  She still has all of Juliette's memories but, due to the "training" is emotional separated from them.

 

Frankly, I'd almost be happier if it was something more along the lines of what you suggested.

[spaulding]

One of two things will happen if (when...sigh) she returns.

 

1. She'll be rehabilitated. She'll be super-hexie Juliette. She'll be more magical and more powerful and awesome and amazing and everyone will bow down to her and tell her how awesome and amazing she is and totally forget everything she did before. They'll make the "she was drunk" excuse. Oh, excuse me, that she was not only a hexie, but a super-bad meanie kind of hexie and had no control over herself, the poor, misunderstood girl.

 

Why, she's pretty and nice and gosh, you only have to look at her blank stare to know she didn't mean any of that stuff she did. Doggone it, Juliette is just the BEST!

 

2. She'll continue down her evil path and get hated even more as a character. They'll make her a super-villain who will be even more dangerous, because she was in the inner circle. She'll be the baddest-ass most evil most destructive hexenbiest there ever was.

 

Very easy choices for the writers:  Juliette is a badass supervillian, or she's a badass superhero. 

 

Either way, this show revolves around a supporting character.  Everybody will have to react to her and her actions. 

 

From a quick look at the threads, sounds like Juliette's going down the path of being the Savior of Portland.  I guess it washes away all the badass shit she's pulled from last season.   (It also puts Adalind in the beta female position, because Juliette has to be the alpha female on this show.  And that baby will be Juliette's.)

 

Nothing she does gets a pass--ever.  No apology is adequate because what she did was indefensible.  Tulloch admitted that Juliette liked her new powers and liked being badass.  So there's no excuse for Juliette's actions; she was fully aware and fully in control with burning the Grimmabago and doing the slow walk in the porno lighting while Mama Grimm was fighting for her life.  (Ugh, even Kelly's death was centered around Juliette's face, which had absolutely no reaction.)

 

I don't know why the writers or showrunners believed that this show needed a reboot.  Was it to expand Juliette's role?  They were aware that there was a problem with the show?  And the answer was more Juliette? 

 

They're all a victims  of the same bad writers. Some can rise above it. She could have Shakespeare and make it sound like she's doing her nails.

 

I just watched the Arrow episode with John Constantine, so the comparisons are current in my mind.  There was a huge welcome back for John.  It trended worldwide on Twitter.  (And the gorgeous Matt Ryan is on Broadway in Therese Raquin.  I'll follow him anywhere.)

 

I can't see how Juliette's return was really anticipated.  It wasn't a big shock that the Bland One returned.  Was there a huge demand for her return?  After Mama Grimm's murder?  After the burning of the Grimmabago?  What does the character add to the show now?  Besides drama and the blank look on her face. 

 

I have no idea why the writers don't have the guts to kill of the character.  She's past her expiration date. 

[Darklazr]

Very easy choices for the writers:  Juliette is a badass supervillian, or she's a badass superhero. 

 

Either way, this show revolves around a supporting character.  Everybody will have to react to her and her actions. 

 

From a quick look at the threads, sounds like Juliette's going down the path of being the Savior of Portland.  I guess it washes away all the badass shit she's pulled from last season.   (It also puts Adalind in the beta female position, because Juliette has to be the alpha female on this show.  And that baby will be Juliette's.)

 

Nothing she does gets a pass--ever.  No apology is adequate because what she did was indefensible.  Tulloch admitted that Juliette liked her new powers and liked being badass.  So there's no excuse for Juliette's actions; she was fully aware and fully in control with burning the Grimmabago and doing the slow walk in the porno lighting while Mama Grimm was fighting for her life.  (Ugh, even Kelly's death was centered around Juliette's face, which had absolutely no reaction.)

 

I don't know why the writers or showrunners believed that this show needed a reboot.  Was it to expand Juliette's role?  They were aware that there was a problem with the show?  And the answer was more Juliette? 

 

 

I just watched the Arrow episode with John Constantine, so the comparisons are current in my mind.  There was a huge welcome back for John.  It trended worldwide on Twitter.  (And the gorgeous Matt Ryan is on Broadway in Therese Raquin.  I'll follow him anywhere.)

 

I can't see how Juliette's return was really anticipated.  It wasn't a big shock that the Bland One returned.  Was there a huge demand for her return?  After Mama Grimm's murder?  After the burning of the Grimmabago?  What does the character add to the show now?  Besides drama and the blank look on her face. 

 

I have no idea why the writers don't have the guts to kill of the character.  She's past her expiration date. 

 

BT is DG's girlfriend and I guess the show runners don't want to lose the actor.  I really hate how actors real life effs up what is on my TV reel!

[spaulding]

This would make more sense than anything.  Juliette, for example, yes...she made the choice to do all those things.  I'm not about to give her a pass on it.  My theory is this:  We all--at least those of us who are able to function in society--are able to control those deep, dark feelings.  Yes, we may feel incredibly angry or jealous or whatever, but we should be able to say to ourselves on some level that we need to keep them in check or deal with them in a more, um, positive way.  Juliette was one of those people.  She was probably, at a primal level, upset that Nick was not "normal," that because of this her life could be unstable at times.  She liked Monroe and Rosalee, but did she trust them completely, all to the deepest part of her soul?  We can't tell, but my guess is that there was always something there that she wasn't sure about.  Then, there is Adalind, who could have killed her (it is my understanding that, if Renard hadn't broken the spell, Juliette would have died), who DID cause amnesia and obsessive behavior, who "used her" (keep in mind the times in seasons 1 and 2 where Adalind acted friendly towards Juliette) and who stole  Juliette's own being, basically, to sleep with Nick.  Juliette WAS upset about all this--that was no secret.  But how upset was she?  Was she I-could-murder-you-upset?  Maybe, but obviously--as a "human"--she could shut that down.

 

That's kinda interesting.  Maybe deep down, there is a divide between humans and wesen.  Maybe there is an inherent mistrust between them.  When push comes to shove, maybe wesen will stand by wesen and humans will stand by humans. 

 

Maybe there is a feral separation between humans and wesen.  Humans can control themselves better than wesen.  Maybe that's why the show focuses on wesen criminals. 

 

To paraphase what you said: Does Juliette truly trust Monroe and Rosalee from the deepest part of her soul?  We can't tell.

 

We can't tell because Tulloch is a terrible actress.  But I do like the idea of what separates humans and wesen on a primal level.  I wouldn't mind if this show explored the issue. 

BT is DG's girlfriend and I guess the show runners don't want to lose the actor.  I really hate how actors real life effs up what is on my TV reel!

 

I agree.  I couldn't get past their real life relationship.  It pulled me out of the show. 

[marys1000]

BT is DG's girlfriend and I guess the show runners don't want to lose the actor.  I really hate how actors real life effs up what is on my TV reel!

Ah!  That helps.  Because I was coming here to say (1) I've hated all the iterations of the girlfriend character arc and (2) wondered if it was because the actor was married to a producer or something.  Not sure its the same amount of nepotism for actor + actor but really...Juliette needed to be gone ages ago, and stay gone.  

This fact also made me switch from questioning Bitsie's acting ability to questioning David Giuntoli's.  These two have terrible on screen chemistry for boyfriend/girlfriend IRL.  When you think about it NickDG  doesn't really do much acting wise. 

Edited December 14, 2015 by marys1000

[Darklazr]

I remember when Nick had to deal with whatshernames and Renard's obsession; and how he had to suck it up that she was cheating on him with another man.  Once the obsession was over and whatshername finally realized just how dangerous it was to be with a Grimm, they both should have ended the relationship, permanently!

Ah!  That helps.  Because I was coming here to say (1) I've hated all the iterations of the girlfriend character arc and (2) wondered if it was because the actor was married to a producer or something.  Not sure its the same amount of nepotism for actor + actor but really...Juliette needed to be gone ages ago, and stay gone.  

This fact also made me switch from questioning Bitsie's acting ability to questioning David Giuntoli's.  These two have terrible on screen chemistry for boyfriend/girlfriend IRL.  When you think about it NickDG  doesn't really do much acting wise. 

 

Yes, whatshername should have died by the cat scratch at the end of season one and the show could have brought on another actress that could "act" and had chemistry with Nick/DB, because BT just is not cutting it!

[Happy Harpy]

This fact also made me switch from questioning Bitsie's acting ability to questioning David Giuntoli's.  These two have terrible on screen chemistry for boyfriend/girlfriend IRL.  When you think about it NickDG  doesn't really do much acting wise. 

If you ever watched Friends season 4, you might not question it. I didn't understand the lack of onscreen chemistry between DG and BT before I learned they were together in real life, meaning when I came back here after watching the S4 finale. But now, it all makes sense.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[OtterMommy]

From the spoilers thread:

 

Sometimes I feel pretty bad for Bitsie because of all the negativity against her that she must be aware of, but then she goes and does an interview like this.  Eve is going to be a focused weapon and Bitsie prepared by eating a ton of protein and training hard.  Who really wants to see her musculature, if any, and don't they have stunt people?  And the producers have said she will be in every episode.  Happy Festivus for the rest of us.

 

 

My thoughts exactly.  I don't hate Bitsie Tulloch--in fact, I like her.  She's into animals and books and I tend to like people who like animals and books.  And she is well-educated.  I mean, she double majored at Harvard.  

 

Then I read that interview.

 

Granted, that interview was pieced together from a press call she made so it isn't exactly like she sat down and had a conversation with whoever wrote this.  She was on a call with dozens of journalists, with questions being shot at her over and over and an "official line" she had to stick to. Still, however, that doesn't excuse the sort of flippant tone of what was printed.  I would rather she would have been vague and said things like, "Well, you'll have to wait and see" instead of "I eat protein and work out!"  And nothing she said made me feel even one iota better about this new development.  Ugh...

 

Oh, and apparently my IG feed is about to be flooded (yes, I follow her on IG.  I could unfollow her, I guess, but under normal circumstances, she does post some interesting things).

[neuromom]

I'm not a fan of Bitsie's acting, but by all accounts she is a very nice person. I've heard the same about DG, so I imagine that IRL they are probably a very sweet, down to earth couple. I didn't know she was a Harvard grad...good for her! I'm just thinking she may be in the wrong line of work?

And it is indeed possible that she didn't come across that well in the interview because of how,the journalists reports it. Or, she may have had a particularly bad day. Hey, it happens. I was a Juliette fan in the beginning - when it was Juliette in small doses...but now,,it's as if the show runners want to make her the show's "star", alongside DG. And that doesn't sit well with me because I always thought that SWM should be second to DG.

Edited December 17, 2015 by neuromom

[OtterMommy]

I'm not a fan of Bitsie's acting, but by all accounts she is a very nice person. I've heard the same about DG, so I imagine that IRL they are probably a very sweet, down to earth couple. I didn't know she was a Harvard grad...good for her! I'm just thinking she may be in the wrong line of work?

 

I read an interview with her once--I think it was done before Grimm--where she said her plan was to work "behind the camera" in Hollywood for a year and then go to graduate school to become an archivist.  Then, the acting "just happened."  It was never her intention to be an actress...  Which is kind of mind-boggling as her resume is pretty impressive for someone who never really meant to be in the business--and I'm sure there are a lot of actors and actresses with MFA's out there who would love to have credits like that.

 

ETA: I agree with you 100% that SWM should be the star along with DG....I think that would go a long way to bringing this show back up to par.

Edited December 17, 2015 by OtterMommy

[Darklazr]

I have nothing against BT, but Juliette should have been dead four years ago!

[jhlipton]

re "Eve": Ugh.  Just ugh.

 

 

So, these are Nick's choices:

The woman who r*ped him, who he has a real connection to, since they have a baby together 

and

the woman who got his mom's head in a box and nearly killed him.

 

Or: the woman who can act no matter how stupid her plot-line

and

The woman who can't act at all

 

I know which one I'd choose!

This goes back over 15 years, but I remember Angel from Buffy the Vampire Slayer when he became Angelus in the second season.  He came back next season and then got his own show.

 

1) Angel started as Angelus and became Angel after he was cursed.

 

2) Angel literally went through Hell before becoming Angel again.

 

3) Everyone, including Angelus, knew that Angelus was Eeeeeeeeevil

 

So really no comparison to Juliet or Adalind.

 

Does Juliette truly trust Monroe and Rosalee from the deepest part of her soul?  We can't tell.

But I do like the idea of what separates humans and wesen on a primal level.  

 

I think that Hank trusts Munroe and Rosalee.  (Wu as well to a lesser extent.) So I don't see that separation.

[ShadowFacts]

 

At least they knew not to give Eve emotions, in order to play up to Bitsie's strengths, such as they are.. I mean, if a blank, wide-eyed expression can be considered a strength.

 

What's kind of loopy is that she has no emotions, but as Bitsie said, she has Juliette's DNA and flesh and blood.  And memories.  So she isn't Eve, she's Juliette without emotions.  Kind of like before.  So, what, the raging hexenbiest is also gone?  We'll see I guess. 

[Darklazr]

Unfortunately, I think those who watch Grimm are stuck with some form of Juliette/Eve since BT is clearly here to stay!  Ugh.  Boo.  Hiss!

[OtterMommy]

Yep. She's here to stay. Especially since she and the lead are living together.. I predict super-duper special snowflake bad-ass Eve will be even more annoying than super-duper snowflake bad-ass Juliette.

 

There was an interview with Kouf and Greenwalt running during last season where they basically said that

Nick and Juliette are the endgame, but it will take a couple seasons to get there.

 Of course, there are a few caveats to this:

1 - There is no guarantee of a season after this one.

2 - Can we really believe what they say?

3 - SWM has basically said that season 4 was throwing things against the wall in case they would stick (source: http://www.blastr.com/2015-11-18/exclusive-grimm-cast-and-crew-reveal-season-5-secrets-whats-come-100th-episode),so this might be just another thing thrown at the wall.

 

So, yeah...it looks like--as much as anything can look like in this show--we are stuck with "Eve" until the bitter end, which may come sooner rather than later.

[Darklazr]

There was an interview with Kouf and Greenwalt running during last season where they basically said that

Nick and Juliette are the endgame, but it will take a couple seasons to get there.

 Of course, there are a few caveats to this:

1 - There is no guarantee of a season after this one.

2 - Can we really believe what they say?

3 - SWM has basically said that season 4 was throwing things against the wall in case they would stick (source: http://www.blastr.com/2015-11-18/exclusive-grimm-cast-and-crew-reveal-season-5-secrets-whats-come-100th-episode),so this might be just another thing thrown at the wall.

 

So, yeah...it looks like--as much as anything can look like in this show--we are stuck with "Eve" until the bitter end, which may come sooner rather than later.

 

I am so happy Sleepy Hollow dropped kicked the bad character/actress and never looked back!  As long as DG and BT are a real life couple, whatshername will be on Grimm until the very end.

[neuromom]

All this talk about emotions got me thinking...

I've been DVD rewatching one of my favorite shows - Enterprise.

I'm pretty pretty sure I've seen more emotion from the Vulcans than what I've seen from Juliette.