Emma Swan: 1000% done with your infuriating optimism

[Curio]

Yet she's done absolutely no saving whatsoever.

 

Well, she "saved" Robin. But that should only count as 1/5 of a savior victory because she needed everyone else to help her complete the task.

 

Also, congratulations to The Emma Thread for finally having the 2nd most amount of replies in The Menagerie.

[mjgchick]

Finally this arc is giving us something of how Emma's felt all her life with thinking she wasn't enough because she thought her parents didn't want her and her baby daddy just up and left. Even though they all did it what they did because they thought it was the right thing to do it still left her emotionally scared.

[YaddaYadda]

I'm so down with Emma's scenes today. 

 

She knows she is loved, that Hook will always stand by her. And she knows, finally knows that she is enough. No one can convince me that he wasn't there with her in spirit with that ring he gave her. 

 

For me, those scenes with Nimue tracked all the way back to the episode "Lost Girl" in season 3, when she was talking about not being enough. 

 

JMo was amazing.

Edited November 9, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Rumsy4]

I'll take Dark Swan over whiny Regina any day!! It's mind-boggling how A&E feel in love with Woegina over developing Emma!!

[mjgchick]

Emma has better writing than Regina to be honest. I honestly think being their favorite is a disservice to Regina because they've done a hell of a job with Emma in the 4 seasons even though the storyline is all over the place and they are not giving us much to work with on why Emma is the way she is right now. Also the writers still need to work on Snowing and Emma's relationship more. But Emma's "I'm not nothing." is probably the best thing to ever happen on this show because we all saw Emma from S1. Her most consistent thing was she always helped others but she still was self loathing and didn't feel wanted. Fast forward to 5 seasons and she's sticking up for herself. Telling herself confidently that she is something. Its pretty cool to watch. Not to mention I can't get over that smile of hers. Emma making jokes and flirting is fun to watch even though she's dying in side. lol

Compare that to insta redemption that Regina's gotten well I rather have Emma's storyline.

[LizaD]

 

favorite is a disservice

 

Yes that's generally what being the Mary Sue does.

 

Emma has better writing by default of not being a Mary Sue. It's just easier to root for her when they let her be wrong all the time, let her fail all the time, let other people call her out and be mad, for very real or imagined misdeeds etc. In other words she's one of the underdogs and it's purely by accident because they think the biggest underdog on the show is the Mary Sue. Nobody wants to root for the "1%" and we all know who that is on this show and it's only made more offensive by trying to portray the "1%" as the biggest victim ever.

 

However taken on it's own, it's not good writing at all. They don't bother writing for villain DS even though they spend plenty of time calling her evil and they didn't bother giving motivation to Camelot Emma. Her being "addicted" to DO power makes zero sense when she already has her own magic and she's been shown to want to get rid of it. Desperately and selfishly so as they told us with her "I love NYC" mantra for half a season. Like most everything else on the show, they really have the cast to thank.

 

I will say however that the struggle to be good or semi-selfish, I'm refusing to call it evil, has never been done better than here. It's a very palpable thing that jumps out at you from the screen. So the reasons don't exist but the struggle is real, kudos to JM. . It's just too bad that they're refusing to write villain DS and only want to give it lip service. The Camelot side of the story is loads better. They just can't write the Storybrooke side of the story can they? In any arc, outside of S1. The real story is in Camelot, they're using the present Storybrooke side to make a 4 episode story into 11. Even DS's darkest deeds have come in Camelot.

[Rumsy4]

In a TV Fanatic article (beware spoilers), A&E mostly credit Jennifer Morrison for her take on the Dark Swan. She was doing a lot of research for the part from what she said in her summer interviews. I'm glad that A&E gave her the freedom to do that. Because she's killing it in Camelot. I like the clipped version of Dark Swan we get to see in Storybrooke as well, but JMo hasn't been given much opportunity to do anything there. She's basically Gold in 4A, except she's obsessed with Excalibur instead of Mickey's Hat.

 

TV Fanatic: With this chapter in particular, what has surprised you guys either in the writing of it or how it’s played out once the actors kind of got into it?

Adam Horowitz: I think it always is surprising with our actors who we believe are the best in the business now. They take what we write and bring something new to it and it’s just like with Dark Swan how Jennifer Morrison interpreted it and made it her own, and through all the characters, and I think that’s been a joy.

Edward Kitsis: I really think Jennifer brought her own thing to being the Dark One and that’s different than Dark Ones we’ve seen before and I think that’s been really great and it’s just fun to kind of see these characters brought to life. 

Edited November 15, 2015 by Rumsy4

[mjgchick]

I also think the writers doesn't want to actually be bad. Maybe she's tricking Nimue and her ilk. The worst thing Emma's done this season is control two peoples hearts to get shit done unlike others who keeps them as some souvenirs.

Why is Emma not considered as a wizard or witch on this show? Or Regina for that matter?

Edited November 15, 2015 by mjgchick

[KingOfHearts]

The worst thing Emma's done this season is control two peoples hearts to get shit done unlike others who keeps them as some souvenirs.

 

 

See, this is what I don't understand. Emma using Violet's heart to get Merlin to save everything is viewed as this awful betrayal. There was so much weight put on it that one of the most iconic scenes from the pilot was recreated just to showcase its severity. What's more, the dialogue seems to imply it makes her worse than Regina. But if you go back to 3A, Emma suggested Regina do the same thing to a Lost Boy, and it only made Snow squeamish at the most. So if Regina does it, it's not bad because she's a villain. But if Emma does it under a dark influence possessing her body, she is scum.

Edited November 15, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Apparently, this is Cora-like bad because Emma was willing to break the heart of her own child.  If they wanted this to be effective, we needed to be convinced that Henry was really hurt.  It would have helped if Henry didn't meet Violet three days ago.  No one else finding out even commented on what Emma did.  Even Henry in Storybrooke was over it two episodes later so who cares if he gave Dark Emma a Window-reject-face.  

[mjgchick]

Uhh Emma, you fucked up badly. This might be the worst thing she's done so far this season.

[Souris]

It was pretty darn dark that she was planning to cold-blooded-murder Zelena to save herself and Hook.

[Camera One]

So what was the real reason why she wanted to stay Dark?  What was it she couldn't say to Regina which she revealed later to Hook?  She wants them to have a happy ending, and dark magic helps with that?

[InsertWordHere]

So what was the real reason why she wanted to stay Dark?  What was it she couldn't say to Regina which she revealed later to Hook?  She wants them to have a happy ending, and dark magic helps with that?

She was scared of having a future with him. I think the darkness helped take away the fear.

 

I don't know why the only options in her head were future or darkness. Like she could have just gotten rid of the darkness and kept things the same with Hook, but that's Emma for you, I guess. 

Edited November 16, 2015 by InsertWordHere

[Rumsy4]

I think she was scared to take the next step with Hook. She wanted it so much she was afraid it might go wrong somewhere. So, basically she was procrastinating getting rid of the Darkness.

[KAOS Agent]

Within the last two years of show time, Emma has watched Graham, Neal, Henry, August, Walsh and Hook die (some of them multiple times). That's a hell of a lot of loss for someone who never had anyone to start with. I get that not all of them were permanent (and Walsh could still be out there somewhere), but I find it rather ridiculous how often everyone around her seems to just want Emma to be fine and move on. Find me one other person on this show who has dealt with as much loss in that short period of time as Emma. I hate what she did to Hook, but who wouldn't be at the end of their rope at this point? And if she had let Hook die, what future would she consider having? After every single person she's let in has died on her, there's no way she wouldn't just shut down completely. Even after Hook "dies" again and then comes back (because let's not lie that's how this show rolls, death comes in threes and third times the charm for Hook), how would she cope with the potential loss again? She was already freaking out about the future and that was without the emotional trauma that came later. I know this show will never deal with this adequately, but I will be very unhappy if Hook & Emma are saved and it's all happy endings and moving in together with nary a thought given to the severe psychological issues Emma would have continuing with any relationship ever again.

[YaddaYadda]

I don't blame for what she's done. Plus what he did, he did to save her from Arthur. I'm assuming there would be a lot of blame.

 

The thing is, we really don't know how Emma would've reacted if Hook had really died. With all that darkness inside of her, maybe she would've just embraced it completely, and then everyone would've been in some serious trouble. Even through all of this, she managed to keep her humanity because of him.

 

Emma has lost a lot, and he's not just anyone. We have seen how his presence has affected her, especially in this arc. I know it's gonna sound cheesy, but he's been a light in her life, and even more so during the Dark Swan arc.

 

I bet Merlin regrets creating Excalibur. What a fucked up weapon.

[HoodlumSheep]

Within the last two years of show time, Emma has watched Graham, Neal, Henry, August, Walsh and Hook die (some of them multiple times). That's a hell of a lot of loss for someone who never had anyone to start with. I get that not all of them were permanent (and Walsh could still be out there somewhere), but I find it rather ridiculous how often everyone around her seems to just want Emma to be fine and move on. Find me one other person on this show who has dealt with as much loss in that short period of time as Emma. I hate what she did to Hook, but who wouldn't be at the end of their rope at this point?

Killian is probably next in line for suffering losses with Liam, Milah, his crew on Neverland (as a captain I'm sure that must of stung at least a little), and Neal.

I don't like what she did to Hook against his wishes, but at the same time it was human and selfish and realistic and I can't hate her for it. It was very understandable. My poor cupcake:(. both my cupcakes don't deserve to suffer so much. :(

Edited November 16, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[mjgchick]

It just felt like seeing Killian like that completely broke her.

[YaddaYadda]

It's the whole tomorrow is not guaranteed. There she is telling him she wants a future with him, looking at the house he picked, facing him as she tries to put the sword back together, next thing she knows he's going to die, and everything she wants dies along with him. It's the realization that there's nothing without that person. 

 

It seems Emma has given her future with him a lot of thought. He gives her the ring, and it's like the lady doth protest too much, and she has this look on her face that says she may not have turned down a proposal. And it's not like he hasn't given any of this any thought, so they're on the same wave length even though they haven't really discussed any of this. She wants the white picket fence, and the proposal, and everything that comes after that.

 

For a long time, she didn't think she could have that because she is the Savior. She voiced that much back in 3x12 after she was attacked by Walsh. She said what she thought she wanted wasn't in the cards for the Savior.

 

How said is that, that she doesn't believe she can have the most normal things because of who she is? This is like a revisit of 3B, but in a very messed up way.

 

One of the hardest things is watching dreams die, and I don't think she saw herself ever coming back from that.

 

It kind of reminded me of those stories about couples that have been together for so long, that when one of them dies, the other one dies like a day later because they can't bare being separated.

Edited November 16, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Shanna Marie]

In a weird sort of way, the choice Emma made may have actually been for the greater good, even though her motives were somewhat selfish in not wanting to lose the man she loves.

 

If she'd listened to everyone else and let him die, what are the odds that she wouldn't have gone dark anyway in grief? Losing a loved one has been shown to be the number one turning point trigger for darkness in this world. Merlin has said that she would have to want the darkness out of her before it would work, and if she's grieving and angry, that's not going to happen. If Hook's dead and that tips her over into full darkness, then odds are that she's going to go after Arthur for revenge, since he was the one who struck the fatal blow and it was his scheming that put them all there in the first place. Zelena would be next on the list. So now we've got a Dark One on a revenge-fueled rampage, which probably isn't good for anyone. But the way things are, Emma may have gone dark and she may have given the world a new Dark One, but at the moment, her focus is still on Hook, on saving him and keeping him from going fully dark so she can get both of them back to normal. That's keeping the spark of real Emma that Hook said he saw in her alive. She may have tethered him to the sword, but she's also tethered herself emotionally to him, which gives her a positive goal that helps her hold on to her humanity.

 

I don't think this was necessarily running through her mind when she made the rash choice to save him, but depending on what happens next and what the consequences end up being, I think it's possible that she actually made the right choice.

[mjgchick]

This is the most selfish we've ever seen Emma. It kind of breaks my heart to think of how she'd be had she let him die. Would she go on as the Dark One? Would she let Hooks wish come true and take the Darkness out so she can go on being the Sheriff/Savior again?

I do get the feeling that Emma would just spend the rest of her life doing one night stands and spending money on new batteries. lol She'll still be Henry's mom but she might end up resenting her parents and OQ because they all manage to get the chance to be with their true loves but it feels like she keeps getting punished.

[LizaD]

I don't know if it was selfish so much as a Snow move, pure optimism. I think she thought she'd save him and they would beat it together like she said they would. Merlin and her came out on the other side alright fresh off their victory and she sees Hook as good as anyone. It's a problem because Hook has his own insecurities. But Emma is known to plunge head long into things without thinking, see herself as DS.

[mjgchick]

I have to say I'm kind of disappointed that Emma was willing to kill Zelena because of Neal and Marian. First of all she only killed Marian. Neal got himself killed the same way you got yourself to be the Dark One. Second of all not cool with forcing the darkness on Zelena basically killing that new child's mother. Zelena is no different from Regina, Rumple and Hook. Why is this show in such a double standards with the villains?

[Curio]

What's so sad about all of this is that we've been saying how Emma needs to just give everyone the middle finger and be selfish once in a while, because she's always the one giving and giving and giving. And of course the one time she does something kind of selfish for herself...

 

Girl can't catch a break.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Curio

[Joanh23]

yeah I think if Emma had let Killian die there's a good chance she'd have embraced her Dark One powers - Merlin mentioned before that Emma had the potential to be the most powerful Dark One of all time - that's a pretty scary thought!  

[KAOS Agent]

I was thinking about how this show is supposed to be about hope and how that fits for every character except Emma. Regina, Rumpel & Hook all have the hope of finding redemption and love and Snowing & Henry have the hope of finding and building their family. Obstacles are put in front of them, but ultimately things do work out for them. However, due to the necessity of connecting her with all of the characters, Emma is continually working to get something and then has it taken away from her often permanently. She develops a relationship with her family, they are removed from her via curse. She creates a new life for herself and her son, it is taken from her and she is told she is wrong for missing it/wanting it back. She considers opening up to her new friend, Graham, he dies in her arms. She works to make peace and become friends with the ex who betrayed her, he dies. She develops few relationships as a child and they all generally go to hell. She watched Ingrid, a woman she once was hopeful would be her family, die immediately upon having returned Emma's happy memories to her. She finally opens herself up to a full fledged romantic relationship, guy turns out to be playing her and tries to kill her. She opens herself up again, guy dies. What is there to be hopeful about? You can't keep killing off all the people she meets and expect her to be hopeful. 

[HoodlumSheep]

When Emma gets her happy ending at the end of all of this (because you know she will), I'll be balling my head off (same with Hook) so hard. No one deserves a happy ending more than she. It's like, I hate all the crap she has to go through, but it'll make her happy ending even sweeter. I'm not going to give a hoot when most of the other characters get their happy endings though, for obvious reasons.

[mjgchick]

Emma works for everyone's happy ending. The one time she's selfish in doing it it backfires on her. How fucked up is that? It cracks me up when fandom says Regina's never happy. Emma came in the world unhappy.

[Camera One]

I have to say I'm kind of disappointed that Emma was willing to kill Zelena because of Neal and Marian. First of all she only killed Marian. Neal got himself killed the same way you got yourself to be the Dark One.

 

If anything, Dark Emma would understand why Neal was so desperate to save Rumple after what she went through with Hook.  So I can see why her anger would be directed at Zelena.  Zelena was the person handing a needle with heroin to someone desperate for a fix even though they were about to overdose, and to Emma, that combined with the fact that Zelena murdered Marian in cold blood with no remorse made her the obvious candidate to be sacrificed for the greater good.  

Edited November 17, 2015 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

In pre-season interviews JMo was talking about how much freerer Dark Emma was going to be. She would finally take the revenges she wanted to take, etc.. I guess that explains why Emma so easily thought to use Zelena as a vessel for Darkness.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Rumsy4

[Mathius]

If anything, Dark Emma would understand why Neal was so desperate to save Rumple after what she went through with Hook.

 

The only difference is that Neal wasn't doing that for Rumple, he was doing it for Emma.  Everyone else, including Emma's parents and the other man who loved her (Hook), accepted that she and Henry were best off left the way they are, in NYC with happy memories together, but Neal couldn't bear not being in their lives anymore because he's special apparently, so he sought to revive his dad just so that Rumple could find a way to get him back to the Land Without Magic.

 

If anything, what Rumple did for Neal is a closer parallel to what Emma did for Hook: absorb him as he's dying to keep him alive even though that has negative effects for both him and Neal, just as Emma tethering Hook as he dies has negative effects on both her and Hook.

[Rumsy4]

Neal's main concern was probably getting back to his son, not Emma. Resurrecting his father was means to an end.

Zelena certainly played on Neal's desperation, but he was too arrogant in his causal assumption that his father would be able to fix anything. It was even rather out of character, considering his former stance on magic. Besides, there was no need for him to hurry that much. Why not wait and try to find another way to reach the Real World. Or at least, don't do it with Zelena muahahaing 2 feet away. So, while Zelena played on his desperation, this kindof falls under the Liam Jones TSTL category.

If Zelena had forced him to resurrect Rumple by threatening the life of Belle (why didn't they go that route??), then Zelena would be culpable of murder the way the narrative implies. As such, she only bears some moral culpability.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Rumsy4

[Mathius]

Neal's main concern was probably getting back to his son, not Emma.

 

You're right, it was probably more for Henry than Emma, paralleling his own father's obsessive quest to get to the Land Without Magic in order to reunite with him even though he was probably better off left alone.

 

And yeah, the way Neal got himself killed was bad writing.  Lumiere just fessed up to being commanded by Zelena and there being a price to pay, Neal should not have been in such a desperate hurry that he would refuse to hear more about said price.  Being forced to do so by Zelena threatening Belle would have made MUCH more sense.

[KAOS Agent]

I was thinking about how this show has continually had other people tell us why Emma wasn't willing to let go of the Darkness and we just assumed that they were telling us the truth. Both Head!Rumpel and Regina talk about the lure of power and enjoying the benefits of what it can do for you. However, this doesn't mesh with Emma's general misery in Camelot nor track with her abilities before taking on the Dark One. Since the Dark One was in Emma's head, we'd assume it knew what Emma was thinking/feeling. However, that was shown not to be the case since Emma was indeed planning to end the Darkness, while the Head!Nimue assumed she was taking out the light.

 

In this latest episode, we again had Regina talking about the power and blah, blah, blah when it was revealed that Emma's issue was not the power. She couldn't have cared less about it. She was afraid of the future and knew that once she let go, she'd have to face it. This shows that Regina basically has zero understanding of Emma nor what she was dealing with as the Dark One. It makes more sense that Emma tells her that she is not Regina. Of course not. Regina thinks in terms of power while Emma thinks in terms of love and sacrifice. They are on two very different wave lengths and it's kind of interesting how this was shown over the course of the season.

[Camera One]

I don't get how the Voices in her mind even work.  Emma went from not being able to stop Dark Rumple from entering her mind, to being able to stop Nimue and the hundred and one Darth Vaders from figuring out her true plans for the re-fused Excalibur? 

[mjgchick]

Is the final step being Dark One killing someone because even though Emma got all Dark Swan in Camelot she still had Rumplestilskin on her shoulders. Which also makes sense why all she's done was got a hair dye and some new threads.

[YaddaYadda]

Is the final step being Dark One killing someone because even though Emma got all Dark Swan in Camelot she still had Rumplestilskin on her shoulders. Which also makes sense why all she's done was got a hair dye and some new threads.

 

I don't think the writers even know what makes the Dark One a Dark One.

 

Emma tethers herself to the darkness, Rumple tries to have her kill Merida, which would be that step. She saves Robin's life, so the darkness has a better hold of her even though she saved someone, and tethering Hook's life to the sword pushes her over the edge.

 

I would like it if they were like, well Emma played with the fates when she saved both Robin and Hook, because she shouldn't have, they were supposed to die, or whatever, and this is the result. I don't understand why saving someone's life darkens someone's heart/soul. Do not run a in a burning building even if you hear a screaming baby!

 

I find it hard to condemn someone who made sacrifice after sacrifice, and call them Dark One even though they're really not.

 

Emma planning on taking Zelena's life, no matter how justified she feels in doing it, that is dark. And she was planning on doing that as someone who was devoid of darkness, but nothing would've happened to her, because she's not the Dark One anymore.

 

This show is all kinds of messed up. 

[PixiePaws1]

Emma planning on taking Zelena's life, no matter how justified she feels in doing it, that is dark. And she was planning on doing that as someone who was devoid of darkness, but nothing would've happened to her, because she's not the Dark One anymore.

This show is all kinds of messed up.

thing is ...Emma made that plan with her DO goggles on. Once the darkness was out she'd be back to Emma and she doesn't kill in cold blood. She'd more than likely be disgusted with herself for even thinking up that plan.

[HoodlumSheep]

I feel like they're viewing any and all magic used while she's the Dark One as bad. It doesn't matter what kind. Like, they're trying to show that using all her new powers is addictive and bad and will slowly eat away at her to the point where she won't want the power and freedom to be taken away (see: Nimue), like what happened to Rumple. So it'll slowly corrupt her. They just aren't doing the best job at showing it. Mainly because most of her magical actions have been for good, rather than bad but with good intentions. The only good example is when she used Violet as a means to Henry in order to free merlin. That was bad but paved with good intentions. Hook's tethering is sketchily in that category as well I suppose; I guess that healing Robin = cheating death, which =bad.

Basically, the writers failed to show it as well as they needed to. JMo can only do so much.

Although I suppose tethering Hook is meant to act as the real breaking point for Emma to go "evil."

Edited November 19, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Scovies]

Well, I suppose her saving Hook could be considered less "saving a life" and more "making another Dark One." It's definitely a gray area, though I don't blame her a damn bit for doing it. 

 

Basically, the writers failed to show it as well as they needed to. JMo can only do so much.

 

And thank goodness we have her playing this character. She's been amazing.

[KAOS Agent]

 

I feel like they're viewing any and all magic used while she's the Dark One as bad. It doesn't matter what kind. Like, they're trying to show that using all her new powers is addictive and bad and will slowly eat away at her to the point where she won't want the power and freedom to be taken away (see: Nimue), like what happened to Rumple.

 

Except that's not what they've shown. They've had others tell us that this is Emma's issue, but then showed us Emma rejecting it and showed that her later issues are tied to her fears about the future. And who can blame her? Every damn time Emma has the chance to make a decision about the future and seemingly ready to take that step, everything is taken from her. She plans to settle down in Tallahassee with Neal, he sets her up, ditches her and she ends up pregnant in prison. She finally has her family and plans to settle down in Storybrooke, that's pulled out from under her and she's told to start a new life with Henry. She finally opens up to the idea of marriage with Walsh and he tries to kill her and her newly built life is shown to be a sham. She decides that moving in with Hook and planning for their future together will be okay and he dies ten minutes later. No wonder she's scared of trying to implement her plans for the future. No matter how miserable the Darkness was making her, her experience has shown that things will get worse the minute she lets go and starts the future. And hey, shocker, things got worse.

 

Emma said that the Darkness removed her walls and took away her fear. Given what she's gone through in the past, I can see where this lack of fear would be hugely freeing for her. Why would you give that up? If your life is full of fear and the entirety of your experience have proven that your fears are valid, would you give up the thing that keeps you from feeling it? 

[YaddaYadda]

Emma said that the Darkness removed her walls and took away her fear.

 

I've been wondering if the whole let's suck the darkness out of zygote Emma won't come back into play, and be the reason why she reacted to the darkness the way she has?

 

I'm not saying that her response isn't something that was unexpected. Emma is a fighter, that's what she's done her whole life, so she's fighting it. Her worst crime as far as we know is stealing a car, and food to survive. I don't even count Cruella's death against her because she was trying to save Henry.

 

I just find it weird that the writers decided to skip completely over Emma's duality as the Dark One and the Savior, and decided that the light magic counted for nothing in the grand scheme of things, which again, I don't really understand.

 

it's not like the story would've been lost if they had said that. They could've said Emma's light magic is matters, and that's one of the things protecting her, and buying her time, but they still need to pull the darkness out of her.

 

Plus there's Merlin's whole plan of cutting the darkness out. What about the light magic? And what makes him so sure he can do it without cutting the light magic out of her too?

 

I get that Merlin is like a mad scientist, but it's not like he's had anyone to experience this theory on, has he? And when he was planning on doing that to himself, he was just holding immortality and light magic, not immortality, light and dark magic.

 

The way things sounded in the Nimue episode, it sounded like Excalibur cuts immortality and magic, with no distinction.

 

This is what sort of got me wondering about Merlin's line regarding someone being able to hold the darkness. Hook went down the rabbit hole. He not only held the darkness (not magical mind you), but he's killed, maimed, done things he's not proud of. He held the darkness, and hold on to it for a really long time.

 

Maybe that's the reason he was very much himself in Storybrooke, right up the moment he realized what had happened in Camelot.

 

In contrast, Emma has never had darkness, stealing to eat isn't committing cold blooded murder to get back at someone for basically insulting you, or drinking your wine.

 

All of this is obviously speculation. I'm just surprised they haven't brought up anything about the darkness hoovering. I'd think it's relevant to what's going on right now.

Edited November 20, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[mjgchick]

Jennifer and Collin seems to be having a lot of fun with these BTS pics that are coming out. lol

[Souris]

Jennifer and Collin seems to be having a lot of fun with these BTS pics that are coming out. lol

They look far too happy in scenes where they ripped out our hearts, LOL.

[OnceUponAJen]

They look far too happy in scenes where they ripped out our hearts, LOL.

Yes, I'm glad they're having fun while we're all weeping!

[Camera One]

With all the kudos for "Birth", does everyone give top marks to the Writers for making the REAL reason why Emma was reluctant to let go of the Darkness was because of her fear of the future, since this was a deeper character motivation versus a plot or "surprise!" motivation?  Does this show they have a true understanding of Emma's character and a true desire to explore her psyche?

Edited November 22, 2015 by Camera One

[daxx]

With all the kudos for "Birth", does everyone give top marks to the Writers for making the REAL reason why Emma was reluctant to let go of the Darkness was because of her fear of the future, since this was a deeper character motivation versus a plot or "surprise!" motivation?  Does this show they have a true understanding of Emma's character and a true desire to explore her psyche?

I was so pleased that was the in show reason and not what Regina (I know you Emma) was peddling, power and enjoying dark magic. Except for a couple of power rushes she didn't seem to be particularly enjoying her time as the dark one.

[Curio]

I agree, it was very in-character for that to be Emma's motivation, but I wish we got to see a few more scenes addressing her fear of the future throughout season. At least they handled it better than Emma's random confession during the Season 4 finale where she admitted she couldn't tell Killian she loved him out loud because saying it would make it feel too real. Throughout all of 4B, the writers were mainly focused on Operation Mongoose, Regina's issues with Robin, the Author, and the Lilly/Maleficent drama that Emma's confession didn't seem earned and didn't fit in with the overall theme of 4B. While I do think the writers did a much better job of setting up her confession about fearing the future in 5A than they did with her confession about saying "I love you" out loud in 4B, there were still some scenes missing in between. For example, seeing a scene of Hook and Henry starting Operation Light Swan on screen where Hook mentions something like, "Now don't tell your mom about this quite yet. You know how she is about these things," would have been nice to see before "Birth," along with a scene where Emma is discussing the future with her parents and they say something about future grandchildren that makes Emma squirm. Another missed moment where they could have hinted at this was Emma's normal chat with Merlin about Henry growing up really fast. They cut Emma off before she could finish, but maybe she might have said something about how it's scary to think about how quickly he's changed and she doesn't like thinking too far into the future about that kind of stuff.

[YaddaYadda]

I was very glad that was her motivation. They had Emma voicing that back in 4x22 after Hook dies in the AU that she never told him she loved him because she was scared.

 

And they had Emma voicing that she was scared of getting in a relationship with him because she couldn't lose him. So it's not like anyone fell off their chairs on this. They've been building on this since season 4.

 

I think it's interesting that before Pan's curse, she seems to have made her choice, and that it's Hook she wants to give things a go with. When they stood at the town line, I still think that's one of the best Captain Swan moments.

 

But Emma, right off the bat in 3x12, after she gets attacked by Walsh tells Hook that she is the Savior, so she doesn't get to have the things she wants. 

 

I'm glad they made her fears the reason she was having difficulty lighting the Promethean flame. 

 

Emma doesn't care about magic, she's the person who forgets it's part of her. It's not really part of instinct, her mind doesn't instinctively go there like with Rumple, or Regina. 

 

But Emma's brain goes to loss, and worry that she might not get the life she wants. The rug has been pulled from under her too many times, and this is the reason she refuses to let Hook go. 

 

It's like she has this promise of building a home with him, and a future, and then it's just gone. I'm surprised she hasn't locked herself up in a nunnery or something.