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S02.E11/12: Reading the Signs/Signing Off

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Mary Jane's rant goes viral.  Sheldon struggles.  Mark's perspective on dating. //  Mary Jane moves into her prime-time position at SNC.

(Two hour season finale.)

 

 

 

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Well, well, well...the truth is finally out--David and Lisa had a fling. Oh Lort!

Edited by sereion
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I understand being surprised about Lisa and David having an oral transaction, but to get into an accident about it was ridiculous. I did not miss David at all.

 

I will say, I'm glad that MJ didn't settle for Sheldon's bullshit. Throwing out her toothbrush daily? WTF. I'm ok with not living together if it isn't your thing. However, he could miss me with his separate but equal relationship.

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I loved everything until the end. I thought the show had outdone themselves with just good storytelling that felt real, but then the cliched, contrived cliffhanger/car accident ending. GMAFB. So insecure and unnecessary. I most enjoy this show when it doesn't focus on the David bullshit (whose beady eyes I don't find sexy and I have enough of that sordid ex stuff in my real life).

Edited by anonymiss
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then the cliched, contrived cliffhanger/car accident ending.

agreed. done to death! trope is so overdone, nobody believes it or is alarmed any more.

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I’m so, so over David, but I understood her need to reach out to him about his loss. I’ve been there recently and had to stop myself from even caring about the ex and his situation. Why re-open that door for any reason? He’ll be just fine.

 

I also related to the discovery of Sheldon’s weirdness. Sigh. I was happy to see her decide she wasn’t there for that and immediately leave. Cringed when she peed in the bed though. Girl, get it together. That mess would have been a swift deal breaker for me.

 

Her job situation was interesting to watch. Those politics are real and she’s smart to keep an eye out for what’s really going on.

 

Overall, I enjoyed the season and look forward to the next one.

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I will say, I'm glad that MJ didn't settle for Sheldon's bullshit. Throwing out her toothbrush daily? WTF. I'm ok with not living together if it isn't your thing. However, he could miss me with his separate but equal relationship.

This, turns out Mr. Enlightened is really a misanthrope. Throwing out the toothbrushes was some passive-aggressive BS, so glad she kicked him to the curb. Let him go sleep in separate beds with someone else. His exasperation at normal stuff, because they were not in their place or in his space seemed true of someone used to having things their way all the time, and not sharing space. No wonder he's turned in to the stereotypical, old guy bachelor, have fun alone, Sheldon.

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I didn't see anything wrong with Sheldon's behavior--it's his lifestyle, and MJ kinda knew he was weird and she wasn't going to have a "normal" relationship with him.  He was upfront with her, and she did the right thing by leaving him, but I don't think there was any blame on him or her.  They just wanted different things. 

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I felt Sheldon led MJ on; he knew she wanted to marriage and family, and he should have been forward with her in what he wanted in the relationship. I'm not with the toothbrush thing, either. Totally bizarre.

I will say that I'm glad Marc gave her the business about the way she acted on their date. Sheldon went all out on the date, and the least she could do is try to enjoy the moment. She was so ungrateful and rude, I couldn't blame him for brushing her off afterwards.

The proposal announcement Neicy's sister made seems to be a wake call for Neicy; her sister appears to be successful and very happy, while she's unemployed with two kids.

I'm in the minority, but I want to see David and MJ together. They're both flawed, but I think they're made for each other.

I could do without the cliffhanger myself; I was hoping this finale would time some loose ends, but leave enough strings to keep us guessing until next season.

Edited by sereion
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I will say that I'm glad Marc gave her the business about the way she acted on their date. Sheldon went all out on the date, and the least she could do is try to enjoy the moment. She was so ungrateful and rude, I couldn't blame him for brushing her off afterwards.

Oh, definitely. She was out of line, and if he told her to lose his number afterwards, I wouldn't have blamed him. 

 

MJ's self-sabotage sometimes makes me wonder how she managed to move up in the professional ranks.  She talks more than she listens. 

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I felt Sheldon led MJ on; he knew she wanted to marriage and family, and he should have been forward with her in what he wanted in the relationship. I'm not with the toothbrush thing, either. Totally bizarre.

Yes, he did lead her on some but, given his history, she shouldn't have been surprised that he didn't want a relationship.  Also, I don't know how long they'd been dating but I didn't get the impression that it was several months, so it's not like they had a long-term relationship where he was just stringing her along.  I just think she should have been wary of him from the get-go.  I've known strange-assed men like him, lol.

 

I will say that I'm glad Marc gave her the business about the way she acted on their date. Sheldon went all out on the date, and the least she could do is try to enjoy the moment. She was so ungrateful and rude, I couldn't blame him for brushing her off afterwards.

I couldn't believe she did that, and she actually called him "corny."  Sometimes MJ just acts like a 13 year old.

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I may be in the minority but I didn't think Sheldon was all that strange, except for the toothbrush.  I mean MJ still wants to get married and have a white picket fence.  There comes a time when you have to let go of certain dreams.  MJ is no spring chicken and she still wants to be Cinderella at the ball.  

 

One of my cousins told me about a couple she knew who were together for thirty years and lived next door to each other; they lived next door, yet they loved each other.  I also remember the Spenser books by Robert B. Parker, the two main characters Spenser and Susan tried to live together, it didn't work, but they didn't break up over it, they realized they loved each other more than they wanted their relationship to be conventional.

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I am also happy that MJ left Sheldon and his weirdness. On all fairness though she did kinda just move in on him. What's up with them not having done it but in the same bed? Shoot, how?

I wish I was as strong to let go as soon as I realize it/he/job/friend isn't what I want and I am settling.

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I may be in the minority but I didn't think Sheldon was all that strange, except for the toothbrush.  I mean MJ still wants to get married and have a white picket fence.  There comes a time when you have to let go of certain dreams.  MJ is no spring chicken and she still wants to be Cinderella at the ball.

I don't know if she still wants a fairytale, but she shouldn't have to settle for something she wouldn't be comfortable with just because she's in her late 30s.  It would be one thing if Sheldon made that proposition beforehand, she thought it over, and came to the conclusion herself that it was an interesting setup, and she'd like to see where it went.  I like how if she would've said yes, nothing would change for Sheldon.  There are all types of relationships out there, but living next door to each other seems more like neighbors than lovers. Sheldon and MJ are both set in their ways.  He's already 50, so there's no changing his mind. Good on her for standing her ground, as well.

 

 

On all fairness though she did kinda just move in on him. What's up with them not having done it but in the same bed? Shoot, how?

Yeah, see, I thought he was going to tell her that he didn't like how she was making herself too comfortable at his house.  Coming in, taking off her shoes, dropping her bag, then taking a phone call on his patio.  Especially since she was a total ass to him during the dinner.  Now she's strolling in as if everything is cool. 

 

And well, peeing the bed would kill an erection.

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I am also happy that MJ left Sheldon and his weirdness. On all fairness though she did kinda just move in on him. What's up with them not having done it but in the same bed? Shoot, how?

I wish I was as strong to let go as soon as I realize it/he/job/friend isn't what I want and I am settling.

 

See, the only thing I thought was weird about Sheldon was the toothbrush.  Not everybody wants to be married; not everybody wants to live together. Just because people don't live in the same place doesn't mean they're not lovers.  There's no law that says what a relationship should look like; another reason why I adored Robert B. Parker's "Spenser" books.  Spenser and Susan were very happy with their relationship, they would spend weekends together, they'd go away together, but they knew they couldn't live together.  What's wrong with that?  

 

MJ used Sheldon IMO.  When her house alarm went off, she called Sheldon, told him she was scared, came over, then she kept coming over.  Remember Sheldon asked MJ how did she get in the house?  How did she get in the gate?  He never asked her to move in, she just did it because she was too afraid to be in her house at night.  When she left Sheldon, she went into her home and turned on all the lights; that's when I realized MJ was scared to stay in her home by herself and was using Sheldon as convenience.  

 

MJ needs therapy because she needs to figure out why she think she doesn't deserve love.  Sheldon went all out for her and all MJ did was criticize.  If I were MJ's friend I would have asked her if she would have preferred that they went to MacDonald's.  Most men wouldn't go all out like that for a woman on their first date, if it were me, I wouldn't have questioned it.  

 

I don't get what the deal is with David.  Why was MJ crying?  David came to her, wanted to get back with her and what does MJ do?  She says, "I'll let God decide."  What bullshit.  The man loves her, she loves him.  What's the issue?  See how simple life is?  MJ would complicate a ham sandwich.

 

MJ's problem is she over-analyzes everything.   Maybe it comes from her job and that could be why we have scenes from her job, a place where people aren't direct.  Look what her bosses said about her when she was out of the room?  They hired MJ for prime time because they were afraid of her "going rogue" or something.  This way they give her a promotion and tell her to lay off on the "black oriented" stories.   

 

Anyway, I think MJ needs therapy before she even thinks about being someone's wife or mother.

Edited by Neurochick
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MJ needs therapy because she needs to figure out why she think she doesn't deserve love.  Sheldon went all out for her and all MJ did was criticize.  If I were MJ's friend I would have asked her if she would have preferred that they went to MacDonald's.  Most men wouldn't go all out like that for a woman on their first date, if it were me, I wouldn't have questioned it.

Totally forgot about her atrocious behavior at dinner. He was a gentleman for not walking out on her BS. She really does need help, also figuring out why she keeps picking seemingly unavailable men, first married guy, then David with live in girlfriend and baby on the way, and now Sheldon, whom she should have known was probably not looking for the same things in a relationship as she.

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First of all the comment Sheldon made, which paraphrased was, Look MJ you're old and this is the best deal you're going to get.  I know that's not verbatim but it was very close.  That was extremely, extremely over the top.  Even though the character is new to us, that just seemed out of character.  It seemed like the writers were like, let's make it very clear that Sheldon is the enemy here.  So if I take that comment at face value , Sheldon is an irredeemable ass.  Quirky, eccentric, whatever, but he's a total ass to say that, come on!  Would any non-sociopath really say that?

 

MJ's self-sabotage sometimes makes me wonder how she managed to move up in the professional ranks.  She talks more than she listens.

 

This comment nailed so many things for me.  When MJ showed up at Sheldon's door I was thinking, she can be great in her professional life, extremely great, but in relationships she is very much a child.  And MJ loves to make grand speeches to everyone in her personal life, of course that can be a turn off.  You don't have to say everything you're thinking, and this is a lesson I need to learn as well.  

 

I think I remember Gary Dourdan being an attractive guy but everything about Sheldon grossed me the fuck out and I can't really explain it.  

 

I'll put part of the blame on MJ for getting way too comfortable too fast, and for making a bunch of assumptions she shouldn't have.  She made assumptions about what Sheldon assumed about her, that's a lot of work without communicating.  The rest of the blame can lay on Sheldon - just ick.  I agree that MJ was a total ass to Sheldon about the date, but that's a small fight.  What it really says is that MJ is extremely unaware about what damage her comments do to people.  It's hard to believe but it seems like she really is that un-aware.  

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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First of all the comment Sheldon made, which paraphrased was, Look MJ you're old and this is the best deal you're going to get.  I know that's not verbatim but it was very close.  That was extremely, extremely over the top.  Even though the character is new to us, that just seemed out of character.  It seemed like the writers were like, let's make it very clear that Sheldon is the enemy here.  So if I take that comment at face value , Sheldon is an irredeemable ass.  Quirky, eccentric, whatever, but he's a total ass to say that, come on!  Would any non-sociopath really say that?

Agreed, the age comment is hilarious coming from some older dude, but that's how they think, like he's doing MJ a favor by even bothering with her, when his obvious preference is 20 something shop girls. If Sheldon had no money, none of these young women would bother with him, and he thinks he's above them, but like most old rich guys, he forgets it's really about the money (see every old rich guy with young GF/wife). Remember how bemused he was that he actually had intelligent conversations with MJ, as if no woman could live up to his intellectual snobbery.

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First of all the comment Sheldon made, which paraphrased was, Look MJ you're old and this is the best deal you're going to get.  I know that's not verbatim but it was very close.  That was extremely, extremely over the top.  Even though the character is new to us, that just seemed out of character.  It seemed like the writers were like, let's make it very clear that Sheldon is the enemy here.  So if I take that comment at face value , Sheldon is an irredeemable ass.  Quirky, eccentric, whatever, but he's a total ass to say that, come on!  Would any non-sociopath really say that?

And let's not forget his "we can buy a condo and have apartments on the same floor." Boy, bye.  Sheldon wants the perks of being in a relationship, but he doesn't want to do the work to maintain it.

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I may be in the minority but I didn't think Sheldon was all that strange, except for the toothbrush.  I mean MJ still wants to get married and have a white picket fence.  There comes a time when you have to let go of certain dreams.  MJ is no spring chicken and she still wants to be Cinderella at the ball.  

 

One of my cousins told me about a couple she knew who were together for thirty years and lived next door to each other; they lived next door, yet they loved each other.  I also remember the Spenser books by Robert B. Parker, the two main characters Spenser and Susan tried to live together, it didn't work, but they didn't break up over it, they realized they loved each other more than they wanted their relationship to be conventional.

 

I think if it were something that MJ wanted in life, it would be a great deal for her. However, that isn't what MJ wants for herself. I don't think that MJ has to give up this thing; it's not even a compromise, ya know? It would be MJ straight up doing something that she does not even want just to say she has a sort of a man in her life. 

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And let's not forget his "we can buy a condo and have apartments on the same floor." Boy, bye.

 

And did he make mention of a "Compound"?  Did he actually say that word?  What is this, the navy?  A cult?  Some place where hippies live where they don't follow laws?  

 

I can understand multi-millionaires like Brad and Angelina getting a compound or a castle but wow.

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Yeah, see, I thought he was going to tell her that he didn't like how she was making herself too comfortable at his house.  Coming in, taking off her shoes, dropping her bag, then taking a phone call on his patio.  Especially since she was a total ass to him during the dinner.  Now she's strolling in as if everything is cool.

Yes.  I think Sheldon was somewhat of a pretentious ass, but he was patient and tolerable of MJ because her behavior at his house was wack.  Plus, she peed in his bed.  It's one thing to have a baby pee in your bed, but adult pee?  Hell no.  She didn't deserve a "real" toothbrush. 

 

Remember Sheldon asked MJ how did she get in the house?  How did she get in the gate?  He never asked her to move in, she just did it because she was too afraid to be in her house at night.

I forgot about that.  Now that was just plain creepy and stalkerish, and would have freaked a lot of guys out.  MJ ain't right in the head.

 

ETA another thing:  There was an article in my local newspaper a few months ago about an older couple (by "older" I mean 60ish) who recently got married but still live in their separate homes during the week.  They both still work and lead very active lives, so they thought this was the best situation for them.   On the weekends, they stay at each other's places.  She says when she gets too old to care for herself, she'll sell her place and move into to his house, but right now they're fine with the arrangement. So Sheldon's proposition wasn't that off-base to me, but he just suggested it to someone who wasn't up for it, which is understandable, but he could very well find someone who would love that arrangement.  

Edited by Ohwell
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 MJ is extremely unaware about what damage her comments do to people.  It's hard to believe but it seems like she really is that un-aware.

MJ has no filter whatsoever; I agree she means well, but her mouth has gotten her in lot trouble with her relationships. (Neicy, PJ,  Sheldon etc.)  In fact, I didn't feel sorry for her when PJ threw David and his new girlfriend in her face after she was nasty to him at the dinner party at the beginning of the season.

Edited by sereion

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I find the agest comments very interesting here.  The truth is, if you don't die, everybody will live to be fifty.  

 

Why is Sheldon a sociopath for maybe giving MJ some reality?  

 

Sometimes I think people are done a disservice; we're told "you can have anything you want, be anything you want to be."  At some point that's true, but when you get close to forty, you might not be able to have some of those dreams.  MJ could have been married, but she didn't want to give David a chance for some strange reason.  Sheldon told MJ right because MJ doesn't really want to have a relationship; every time one comes, she finds reasons for not getting involved.  

Edited by Neurochick
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I have zero problem with Sheldon's age comment to Mary Jane. It stung because there's some truth to it (she herself ran down a list of what she felt her choices were as a 39 year old woman).

But mostly he was trying to push her away after she called his dinner and a movie date "corny." I bet if David planned that same date MJ wouldn't think it was corny. Then she moved into his house, making herself comfortable as if she was going to stay.

That was very hurtful thing for Mary Jane to say. Sheldon just decided to strike her where it hurts most, to get rid of her.

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Finally got around to watching the finale. My quick take-aways:

 

1. MJ is an immature shrew. I actually began to warm up to her as a character (the few eps where she was getting it in with cut buddy, she seemed happier), but nope, she goes barreling into Sheldon's life and space with zero self-awareness. She just seems exhausting to be around for any length of time.

 

2. I like Kara's side story, but it dragged a bit. At least she seems to know where things took a left in regard to her marriage and children - admitting she let her job ruin her personal life.

 

3. Sheldon is an odd bird, but knows who he is, and I can appreciate his desire for an unconventional relationship. There no one, right way to be with someone - I've often said my ideal relationship would be just what Sheldon was proposing! Although MJ (thinks she) wants the husband/baby standard, and I can understand while she cut it short with him.

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3. Sheldon is an odd bird, but knows who he is, and I can appreciate his desire for an unconventional relationship. There no one, right way to be with someone - I've often said my ideal relationship would be just what Sheldon was proposing! Although MJ (thinks she) wants the husband/baby standard, and I can understand while she cut it short with him.

I told my best friend the same thing. I like my space. I don't mind interacting but I enjoy my alone time. It calms and centers me. I never like relationships with guys under foot. I would have taken Sheldon up on side by side houses or a compound in a heart beat.

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I told my best friend the same thing. I like my space. I don't mind interacting but I enjoy my alone time. It calms and centers me. I never like relationships with guys under foot. I would have taken Sheldon up on side by side houses or a compound in a heart beat.

 

I agree with this.  Sometimes I wonder if MJ really wants the husband, home, kids; or if she thinks that's what she's supposed to have.

Edited by Neurochick
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MJ is so focused on having babies, but I wonder if she's even stopped to think about whether she even really wants to be a mother.  Does she even realize how self-centered she is?  Not that there's anything wrong with not wanting children, because there certainly isn't, but MJ just doesn't seem ready for it.  I don't think she'd make a good wife, much less a mother.  Which is fine, just like Sheldon is self-aware enough to realize that he wouldn't make a good husband or father.

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I didn't see anything wrong with Sheldon's behavior--it's his lifestyle, and MJ kinda knew he was weird and she wasn't going to have a "normal" relationship with him.  He was upfront with her, and she did the right thing by leaving him, but I don't think there was any blame on him or her.  They just wanted different things. 

This is how I saw it as well, and liked the way their goodbye conversation, pretty warm and respectful in the end.  I also think she grew from the experience just by what she said to him on the phone. She said something the effect of I don't know about he marriage or the kids, but she does know that she wants to cohabitate with someone and share daily intimacies  that comes with that. There's nothing wrong with what he wants or she wants.

 

Lisa is fucked up. She reminds me of that movie years ago, I think it was called "Single White Female," only difference is the race factor. That girl wants Mary Jane's life and it 's a shame because she a doctor, with her own practice I believe, and she achieved that success with no family support. She should be proud of herself.  I can't remember exactly, but I think it's more than just being teased and bullied in school, I think she had a shitty childhood in terms of her family. Too bad she can't look at all she's accomplished and be stronger and stop seeing Mary Jane when she looks in the mirror. She can't be true friend to Mary Jane with that kind of envy and pain at the root of her soul. Mary really has to make a clean break from this girl.

 

Fuck David, I know Lisa is an adult, and made her own choices. 

But damn...Did he seriously think all she wanted was to suck his...really? Please, I'm so done with him.

I was like why the fuck is she doing his fucking dishes, where's his baby mama? That's when I really though to myself, this chick has truly lost her damn mind. They're not friends anymore, the last time they saw each other he could not care less how she was, which she took note by the way she then greeted him. It was a greeting in which she felt the need to remind him that she as actually a person too, one that he actually use to be friends with way before she decided to service him.  Ugh, I can't.....

 

I liked Kara's family's story.

I felt for Neicy, and the actress did a great job in that scene showing Neicy's pain, trying to hold back tears and saying she's happy for her sister at the same time.

Edited by represent
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Yes.  I think Sheldon was somewhat of a pretentious ass, but he was patient and tolerable of MJ because her behavior at his house was wack.  Plus, she peed in his bed.  It's one thing to have a baby pee in your bed, but adult pee?  Hell no.  She didn't deserve a "real" toothbrush.

I think both actors knocked it out the park in that scene. Sheldon and MJ both had valid opinions, and they both did and said things to each other that were selfish and/or inconsiderate.  I cracked up after Gary Dourdan's line, "When we're not talking about your ex, you're peeing in the bed." and MJ's line about not settling for less than what she wants or deserves was great, too.

 

 

Does she even realize how self-centered she is?

That's the thing. MJ has very little insight into other people's feelings. And I don't think she cares to gain that insight. It's all about MJ--she cares most about how every one else's life affects her. Which is how most people are, to some extent, but MJ refuses to acknowledge this fact. Last season, one of her friends mentioned that it bothered her that MJ never spent time at any one else's house. MJ basically said, "I didn't realize it hurt your feelings, but too bad. I like my house." Even Lisa, with all of her issues, seems a little more in-tuned to other people's feelings. I think MJ is more like her mother than she wants to believe.

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I was driving along yesterday, playing an Outkast CD, when the song "Caroline" came on, about a stuck-up woman.   The refrain was "crazy bitch, crazy bitch, ol' dumbass bitch" and I thought of MJ.  Yeah, that's mean but I thought it was funny because that's what I think a lot of men would think when they first met her. 

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