S02.E04: Honeymoons

[Pepper Mostly]

I completely agree. Then Ryan will sit with his bros, crying in his beer about how girls don't want a "nice guy" like him. Douchenozzle.

[Bellalisa]

I'm going to give Sean a pass because sometimes I'm the same way myself. I get wrapped up in my own thoughts and feelings that when someone is talking I don't really hear it. It's not done on purpose! I can imagine he has a camera in his face, they are getting ready to go skiing- his mind is probably going a mile a minute, she offers some fact about her life, and he was in the middle of getting the gloves- GET OVER IT!! It doesnt mean he doesnt care, he doesnt listen. This is just the way people are. All people! Your every conversation, your every transaction with your spouse, bf, partner is not going to go beautifully, like a storybook. He was not being mean or hostile- just a little check-out. Okay A LOT checked out but still- is this hurtful on purpose? Of course not.

[JapMo]

I'm baffled at what some of you are seeing.  The rush to judgment on Ryan D.  He's abusive, he's checked out, he's passive-aggressive, he's deliberately bullying and taunting her...where do you get that from what's been shown so far?  He's kind of a jerk...I'll give you that.  But they seem to really each other.  I don't see the expressions people are talking about that Jessica had on her face that soooo showed she was traumatized.  Over what?  That he stuck his toes on hers?  A lot of husbands will do the exact opposite of what their wives want just because they think it's funny.  I'm not saying we won't see more of a negative personality from Ryan in future episodes.

Edited April 9, 2015 by aethera

[Lovecat]

I just couldn't get over Davina's ginormous purse. 

[Phoenix]

Jessica can be annoying.  Her endless panic attacks, her belittling of Ryan, her wide open mouth laughter...and it's so loud at the wrong times .  She started the emasculating the second they left the wedding altar.  He was in the process of opening a champagne bottle and she asks him if he can get it open....like he may need her strong self to assist him.  Then her boldly telling him twice that he will need to assist her in getting her wedding dress off.  The first time was immediately after their wedding, and the second time was when they entered their hotel.  That obviously turned Ryan off...many men like the pursuit and she was the pursuer (she also came off as easy and trashy...not a great first impression). 

 

So, I think many of Ryan's actions are because he really isn't into Jessica at all.  Not just because of the above stated observations, but also because he didn't like her looks when he first laid eyes on her...his look said it all...disappointment.  I do realize much of what he is doing in terms of his joking actions are a result of his personality.  Although he seems to be taking things to the extreme because he is unhappy with her.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Phoenix

[CPA Carol]

I wonder if Jessica and Ryan D were honest with "the experts".  I am surprised they would match someone who describes themselves as a "stay at the pool" kind of girl with a guy who clearly craves and needs adventure.  Long term, this wouldn't work out.  This couple is clearly struggling. 

[Chief Queef]

I'm still having a hard time remembering these people's names. I haven't noticed Sean as creepy yet but I missed the massage table scene. To me he's cute but sooo obviously just there for the cameras. I feel similarly about Davina and her constant offense at his inability to read her every emotional fluctuation. Their drama seems fake and forced.

Ryan reminds me of Vaughn 2.0. I don't think he's a bad person but his behavior is immature and asshole-ish. Jessica has accommodated him so far but I think her patience will wear thin quickly. I don't think he understands what real marriage entails and will continue throwing tantrums every time something disturbs the romantic fantasy he's created around his grandparents' relationship. He's just silly to me.

I actually think the friend zone couple has the best chance of making it. At least they enjoy each other's company.

[JenE4]

I agree with what everyone has said about Davina. In the sled she TOLD Sean that she was emotional because it was so beautiful and yet she expected him to read her mind that it was "more" than that?! And the tizzy she had over making snow angels. Really?! Snow angels are a huge emotional hurdle?! And if I was running around finding gloves and ensuring we had all the rental gear, I'd be distracted, too. That woman is really too much. For as fast as these two are dropping in my esteem, conversely is my rising adoration for Ryan R. and Jaclyn. The other Ryan and Jess are at a steady annoying/don't care state.

[MsPH]

And if I was running around finding gloves and ensuring we had all the rental gear, I'd be distracted, too.

 

He wasn't distracted when she was telling him though. He was looking her in he eye listening and even said a quick "Really?" while she was talking. That was his only response though, so she tried again by saying "Isn't it cool though?" and he just turned away and started fussing about gloves. It seemed like he was intentionally ignoring her, so I don't blame her at all for being taken back by it. They're supposed to be getting to know each other and he's showing very little interest unless the discussion involves sex. I think the reason they even showed it is because it'll be a recurring theme in their relationship.

 

They added a bit of extra about the sleigh incident online:

http://www.aetv.com/married-at-first-sight/video/sean-misunderstands-davinas-tears

 

I do think Davina was asking too much there, since it did seem like she was simply happy. And he did acknowledge the tears, even if it was in a joking manner. I have a feeling that he won't be much better dealing with her sad tears though, judging by how uninterested he seemed while she was opening up about her childhood.

[zxy556575]

I don't think Ryan D is so bad. I definitely think he and Jess need to figure out how to communicate with each other. When they share what they want in marriage they are very similar. He is affectionate with her, he says he wants intimacy and commitment. I don't think he is that good of an actor to make that up.

 

The guy says a lot of nice things but backs none of them up with action. He wants to be intimate, he wants to be a good provider and a supportive, understanding, loving husband. Yet he acts? Like an immature 9th grader.

 

Dear Sean and Davina -- you can't make angels on packed snow. Scritch, scritch, scritch.

 

Sean's sexual comments to Davina in front of strangers made me uncomfortable and yes, I found him to be creepy. As in, gives me the willies.

 

Perhaps Jessica and Davina should have been matched. They could both shop, relax by the pool, and keep their nails manicured and clothes clean. (Which I would prefer, too, so I'm not knocking it.)

Edited April 9, 2015 by lordonia

[Scorpiosunshine]

For me, the whole thing about Sean and Davina's conversation was that he flat out ignored her pretty much each time it was her "turn". How long they've known each other --even the fact that they're newlyweds-- is secondary.  What he did was rude and dismissive. I can have reciprocal conversations with perfect strangers, so their newlywed status doesn't matter. It's just rude, IMO. I was taught differently and maybe that colors my view. 

 

He told a story, she responded, then she started to tell her story...he walked off and said he was going to get his gloves (this was after she started talking) and then asked if she wanted her gloves too. I don't want to belabor the point, but I felt it was so rude! I noticed it before Davina addressed it in her talking head. 

 

I understand that not every conversation will be perfect, but if he can't even pretend to listen, I doubt his listening skills will improve over time...**unless** it's pointed out to him, which she did. Hopefully it is the cameras or whatever, but he doesn't seem to be too uncomfy in front of the cameras to talk about himself.  Of course I wouldn't judge on just one conversation and I wouldn't freak out over it if it were an occasional thing, because, yes, it absolutely does happen.  But is it a small thing when it doesn't just "happen", but it's part of the man's personality? I guess it depends. There are worse things, for sure, but communication is a huge deal. (And idk yet if it is part of Sean's personality to talk but not listen..I am only saying what I picked up on from what I saw. It's part of my training to notice certain things, but with edited TV one can only go by what we see, because we don't really know exactly what happened. I do trust that Davina wasn't lying )

 

I will admit that this is one of my pet peeves. I  could not be with a man who talked but didn't listen. But see it's not about only that-- I think that's just a symptom. In truth, I cannot be with someone who is inconsiderate.  That's what it boils down to for me. Courtesy.

 

(If Sean is otherwise courteous and this is just a little flaw, then that's not as big of a deal.)

 

As for the tears, I have been given an arm or a hug when i cry in front of people, and I give the same (rather, I offer it ). On second thought, I will give him a pass on that. I think it is really weird to stare ahead while the lady next to you cries, and I think most men are intuitive enough to know ...hmm, maybe it ain't just the scenery, but then again, maybe my view is colored by the men I've been with. I saw that Davina was getting misty about the moment/the whole situation really, and the scenery was just the kickoff. I think when Sean didn't put an arm around her, she genuinely started crying because she was hurt. I saw that. I read that. I guess that's why I've been a little bit defensive of her for some reason. But honestly.... it's silly to expect Sean to have picked up on that, so yes, I agree that was partly her fault and she should have said "hey ya big lug, this marriage thing is overwhelming, etc etc, now gimme your damn arm" and pulled him in or whatever.

 

I didn't think I was going to care about these couples as much as the first season, but I'm hooked on the show for sure. I don't want to see anyone hurt, but I also don't want to see anyone end up with a nutter and/or an a-hole (this goes for the men and women!). It will be interesting (I hope, lol) to see where these relationships go.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Scorpiosunshine

[Bandolero]

I am liking Jacklyn more and more but wish Ryan would tell her point-black to stop with the bros and buddies and all that stuff. I feel like he has to set boundaries as to what he will accept now because, if not, she will learn that she can walk over him and not have to respect him. Funny thing is, he addresses all these things in his talking heads but never addresses them with Jacklyn... strange. I get that she is taking things slow and has walls up but she goes over the line with bro thing. He needs to let her know that he is not looking for a friend and that she needs to show him that she is willing to engage fully just as he is. Sometimes you have to demand respect to get respect. 

 

Davina and Sean- I totally get where Davina was coming from. If I told someone that my mom was a skier and got no response I would be taken aback as well. I mean they barely know each other and already he is ignoring her... not a good sign.  When she was crying.. just a small hug or acknowledgement would do. If I see someone that I care about crying... my instinct would be to comfort not joke. He seems very self-involved to me. Granted Davina also seems needy but I don't think she was out of line to address this. She even admitted that she will try to tell him what she needs in the future. 

 

Ryan is a douche. Jessica needs to run, run, run. She was totally right and he could not take being called out like that. If you call something on my body trashy... how can I not take that personally. He knew exactly what he was doing, he just did not like being called out on camera. He needles her and calls it joking. I really don't think he likes her that much.If she was someone he thought was up to his standards.... he would never treat her like he does. He thinks Jessica is not attractive enough for him and that she is too low-rent. He will have sex with her, of course, but his feelings are fairly obvious. 

Edited April 9, 2015 by Bandolero

[belladonna77]

Davina and Sean- I totally get where Davina was coming from. If I told someone that my mom was a skier and got no response I would be taken aback as well. I mean they barely know each other and already he is ignoring her... not a good sign.  When she was crying.. just a small hug or acknowledgement would do. If I see someone that I care about crying... my instinct would be to comfort not joke. He seems very self-involved to me. Granted Davina also seems needy but I don't think she was out of line to address this. She even admitted that she will try to tell him what she needs in the future. 

 

Ryan is a douche. Jessica needs to run, run, run. She was totally right and he could not take being called out like that. If you call something on my body trashy... how can I not take that personally. He knew exactly what he was doing, he just did not like being called out on camera. He needles her and calls it joking. I really don't think he likes her that much.If she was someone he thought was up to his standards.... he would never treat her like he does. He thinks Jessica is not attractive enough for him and that she is too low-rent. He will have sex with her, of course, but his feelings are fairly obvious. 

Sean seems very self involved.  He's probably quite emotionally stunted due to the bullying he was subjected to as a child and he's perpetually a teenager.  You know how teenagers are: they can't see past their own emotions and they ignore things they can't handle.  

 

I totally agree with Ryan D being a douche.  He disguises his bad behavior by claiming it's teasing.  Remember how his mom had to come up and give him a hug in front of everyone before the wedding?  You can bet he's a total mama's boy and he is the apple of her eye.  He obviously thinks a lot of himself.  It's too bad he looks like every other basic Jersey boy.

[MsPH]

Ryan is a douche. Jessica needs to run, run, run. She was totally right and he could not take being called out like that. If you call something on my body trashy... how can I not take that personally. He knew exactly what he was doing, he just did not like being called out on camera. He needles her and calls it joking. I really don't think he likes her that much.If she was someone he thought was up to his standards.... he would never treat her like he does. He thinks Jessica is not attractive enough for him and that she is too low-rent. He will have sex with her, of course, but his feelings are fairly obvious. 

 

And apparently he's crappy at that too. I was tickled when she said something about expecting more.

[roamyn]

I'm baffled at what some of you are seeing. The rush to judgment on Ryan D. He's abusive, he's checked out, he's passive-aggressive, he's deliberately bullying and taunting her...where do you get that from what's been shown so far? He's kind of a jerk...I'll give you that. But they seem to really each other. I don't see the expressions people are talking about that Jessica had on her face that soooo showed she was traumatized. Over what? That he stuck his toes on hers? A lot of husbands will do the exact opposite of what their wives want just because they think it's funny. I'm not saying we won't see more of a negative personality from Ryan in future episodes.

japmo, someone deliberately gunning a vehicle that can kill, or make you fall into water where your fear can drown you IS abuse.

[Neurochick]

I'm baffled at what some of you are seeing.  The rush to judgment on Ryan D.  He's abusive, he's checked out, he's passive-aggressive, he's deliberately bullying and taunting her...where do you get that from what's been shown so far?  He's kind of a jerk...I'll give you that.  But they seem to really each other.  I don't see the expressions people are talking about that Jessica had on her face that soooo showed she was traumatized.  Over what?  That he stuck his toes on hers?  A lot of husbands will do the exact opposite of what their wives want just because they think it's funny.  I'm not saying we won't see more of a negative personality from Ryan in future episodes.

 

I'm baffled too.  I just don't get it.  Ryan D. is a child but I don't see him as being abusive at all.

 

If Jessica was so afraid of the water, why was she playing with the dolphins?  If she was THAT scared of getting on the jet ski, she wouldn't have gotten on it.  She got on it and then blamed Ryan for going too fast.    Nope, I don't see the abuse, guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Neurochick

[HappilyEverAfter]

I think two couples will make it again this season just like the last and RyanR and Jaclyn will be the love match of this season. Jaclyn has a wonderful happy attitude be it early on she was questioning everything (as she should). I don't see how most could connect to a stranger that fast unless pure lust as one couple has demonstrated. True love grows slowly IMO. Ryan R is being just as cautious as she is, just not verbalizing his insecurities to the extent she was.

[The Evil One]

Davina wants a mind reader. She has known Sean five days and she gets frustrated that he is not attuned to her every thought and feeling. A lot of what was coming out of her mouth is what Sean "should just know" about her. Totally unrealistic. I'm glad at the end that she actually told him how she was feeling, but I think she overreacts to every little thing. And while Davina is very attuned to Davina, she doesn't seem to think very much about how she makes Sean feel. Sean says he is nervous to go skiing since he's never gone before. She then busts out that her mom is an awesome skier. Perhaps he was so focused on his nerves that it didn't register. Or perhaps it made him think "oh great, now I'm even more nervous because I'm really going to embarrass myself in front of my wife." Nowhere in there was any acknowledgement from Davina, that hey, maybe a little reassurance like "well we're both beginners, let's go have fun" might be appropriate. Not that Sean isn't without fault, he sets off some creepy bells for me. And the constant references to their childhoods! They've both clearly spent so much time on the couch that I'm amazed that they can stand up (and both should get either get refunds or double especially Davina).

[Snarklepuss]

For me, the whole thing about Sean and Davina's conversation was that he flat out ignored her pretty much each time it was her "turn". How long they've known each other --even the fact that they're newlyweds-- is secondary.  What he did was rude and dismissive. I can have reciprocal conversations with perfect strangers, so their newlywed status doesn't matter. It's just rude, IMO. I was taught differently and maybe that colors my view.

 

I think Davina is exhausting.  We really have no idea how much of this she did with him during what was essentially one of their first dates.  I remember going on first dates where I wanted to get deeeeeep into feelings with a guy and after a non-stop sharing/therapy session he just wanted to shut down, have fun and enjoy my company without the constant gut wrenching sharing.  I realized I was putting the cart before the horse and that intimacy takes time.  Davina is so needy she is pushing him to his limit, especially as a guy.  I think he he may have gone there with her about as much as any guy should have to tolerate on a first date without tuning out after a while.  That's one possibility I don't want to dismiss.  It's just the opposite of Jessica and Ryan - They are all about fun and not much deeper stuff so they aren't getting close at all.   I think there has to be a balance or it doesn't progress too well.

I'm baffled too.  I just don't get it.  Ryan D. is a child but I don't see him as being abusive at all.

 

I think clueless childish behavior can qualify as abusive - Not intentionally so perhaps, but the affect on the person who has to endure it is just as bad.

[Neurochick]

I wonder what these people really told the "experts."  We only see what the show wants us to see, but nothing else.  I wonder why Jessica and Ryan D are together.  Jessica seems very sensitive and Ryan D isn't.  I thought she'd be more suited to Ryan R.  However, I don't know what Ryan R. said to the experts.  Maybe he said he only wanted to marry a white woman.  Nothing wrong with that, but something like that wouldn't be on the show because it wouldn't seem as controversial as Davina saying that she only wanted a white man.  

 

I do think Ryan D. and Jessica were matched because both of them are immature in different ways.  Ryan has to learn to consider other people's feelings and Jessica has to realize that relationships aren't fairy tales and people and real life is messy.

[Snarklepuss]

Ryan R. seems to me to be the kind of guy who wouldn't want to stray too far afield from his own background just because he himself is so entrenched in that Italian American NY culture.  He really needs someone who can complement that (and not find his accent annoying, LOL).  I think the reason they didn't make an issue about it on the show is because it's not so controversial to say you want someone from a similar background because they understand your culture, share your religion, etc.  A lot of people say that on dating sites and it's kind of accepted.  It was more controversial and noticeable that Davina was going outside her race.

 

I don't think immaturity is ever a good match, not even if they try to make their immaturities complement each other. 

Edited April 9, 2015 by Snarklepuss

[JapMo]

"japmo, someone deliberately gunning a vehicle that can kill, or make you fall into water where your fear can drown you IS abuse."

 

In what was actually shown on the episode, which is all I believe any of us have as a frame of reference, he was trying to be funny and flipped the jet ski.  A-hole?  Absolutely.  Abusive...that's pretty extreme. 

[The Evil One]

I didn't perceive Ryan D's water antics to be abusive. Childish, thoughtless and bordering on mean, yes. He sets off abusive-potential alarm bells with me with the anger management past and the rage-face walking out of the restaurant at the end. He obviously has trouble dealing with his anger and his hand squeezing until he can't squeeze anymore is not going to cut it in a complex adult relationship. I feel badly for Jessica, because she seems to have gotten swept up in the physical chemistry they have and he is now revealing himself to be quite an asshole. There's nothing about this guy that screams "I'm ready/want to be married."

[Matilde]

This show has me hooked still after 2 seasons! I want to hate it, but I can't.  Y'all are all over this and have made some great points. My thoughts haven't changed after this week's episode.

 

Jessica/Ryan D: He's just not that into her. Ryan D, like Vaughn, checked out mentally/emotionally after their first night together. I saw it 2 episodes ago. There's no salvaging this. He's doing/saying things to make her choose divorce just like Vaughn did with Monet. Jessica isn't overly sensitive. I think she still has some healing to do after that long-term destructive relationship with the cheater. Ryan D has more one-night stands, bro-hangs and puerile pranks to do. Nothing wrong with that. He just isn't ready for marriage either. I think she asked for a guy who was more adventurous than she to pull her out of her comfort zone. Ryan D is that, but he's missing the empathy for her being skittish at first. I don't care for Ryan, but I am cool IRL with so many guys under 35 who act just like him. It is what it is.

 

Davina/Sean: I don't have a clear read on him, but something discomforts me about him and it began with him raging at hotel staff about the lost ring. I think the producers didn't show it for a reason. I think it was bad. I also think that if he didn't cross some line, he wouldn't have apologized to Davina in the way that he did about how he behaved with the hotel staff.  He was trying to get out in front of what he thought would be serious blowback from that incident. He also needs to quit it with the sexual suggestiveness. When your lady wants you in that way, she'll let you know. Davina already explained her position on waiting until love blooms to become sexually intimate. So slow ya roll, bruh! I want to root for them, but she seems to always be waiting for some misstep from him. Seek and you shall find.

 

Jaclyn/Ryan R: I love Ryan R! He is the most attractive guy in this cadre IMO. I want him to speak up for himself a lot more, though. Don't just tell the camera; tell your wife what is and isn't working for you, man. I think Jaclyn is beautiful (with or without overly dramatic eye makeup). All of the women in both seasons have been gorgeous to me. I don't think Jaclyn is a ballbuster in the pejorative sense. I think she's probably that girl who has a lot of male friends and knows you have to mimic their behavior in some ways in order to be heard and respected. I think she's forgotten the give and take that a romantic partnership with a guy requires. She'll switch gears soon. My money is on them to last well beyond the show.

 

They need new experts for next season. I say that not only because this lot is so very bad at match making, but also because I simply want to see a different array of subjectivities being brought to bear on this matching paradigm. I'd also like to see my tribe represented with a lesbian (or gay) couple. This show seems to be based in NYC and gay marriage is legal there. Why not? I do think that part of the project undergirding this show is to try to (also) say something about how men and women differ in their expectations of partners and of relationships...to show those contrasts via these pairings. So, maybe a gay or lesbian couple won't happen. I want to see that, though.

 

Carry on...The discussion over here is hilarious and substantive.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Matilde

[roamyn]

I still don't believe Sean "raged" at the hotel staff.

each couple is given a set of semi-scripted things to portray / say. Jason admitted that in an interview. Because Sean & Davina clearly are into each other, there has to be drama from somewhere.

And would the network continue the show if 2 or more couples failed this season? Because they are in the vetting process of S3 right now.

But yeah, cool it down Sean. You don't want someone who's just going to fall into bed with you. You want a long-term wife. Where's the Sean who at his Bachelor party stated that he wanted to wait to kiss and everything?

[JaneVM]

I agree with all of the negative views about Ryan D.  If you look at his Instagram from before the show well, blech, just shows the kind of D-bag he is.  He can say all the right things, how he wants a relationship likes his grandparents, blah blah blah. But the fact is he was disappointed in Jessica's looks (side note: she is way more photogenic than pretty in person).  She slept with him which made her in his mind nothing more than a one-night stand (doesn't matter if they are legally married, at this point that is just a piece of paper).  He has no desire to win her over at all so he is behaving in a way to drive her away. A man who truly cares about a woman is going to care about her feelings and will work hard to do so. He is doing the opposite. If they do stay together after the 6 weeks they certainly will not last much longer than that.

[JapMo]

"They need new experts for next season. I say that not only because this lot is so very bad at match making, but also because I simply want to see a different array of subjectivities being brought to bear on this matching paradigm. I'd also like to see my tribe represented with a lesbian (or gay) couple. This show seems to be based in NYC and gay marriage is legal there. Why not? I do think that part of the project undergirding this show is to try to (also) say something about how men and women differ in their expectations of partners and of relationships...to show those contrasts via these pairings. So, maybe a gay or lesbian couple won't happen. I want to see that, though."

 

Matilde, do you know what the divorce rate is for gay/lesbian couples?  Is it 50% like straight couples?  That's what I believe is their main premise for this show....that there's already a 50% divorce rate when people find someone on their own, so what would the divorce rate be if they had an arranged marriage.  I don't think there's enough statistics yet on gay/lesbian marriages. 

 

I would like to see the show leave the New York area and branch out (not just Long Island), but I can see the experts all have their jobs in NYC so of course they don't want to leave.  And Dr. What'sHisName with the beard who actually made up the test...he's not going to want to leave.  This show has made him a celebrity.

[shopper73]

I haven't seen Ryan D be very affectionate with Jessica, which is why she brought it up in the jacuzzi. And he so enjoys the element of surprise when he unsettles Jessica, there is just a sadistic quality to his joking around. I don't think he will mature into anyone much better.
 

[Scorpiosunshine]

As a currently single person who is  just about ready to get back into the dating scene, I try to put myself in the places of these couples by imagining being married to the next guy I go out with, the first time we meet, on a blind date. Yikes!!  That is scary!

 

I think back on my ex, where we had an immediate and intense physical and emotional connection, and I can recall how comfortable we were right away. I knew we'd fall in love, so I enjoyed the wonderful process of "falling", that sort of electric-buzz of connecting . As much as I couldn't get enough of him, there was still that period where I wanted to go home and poop in private. These couples never have that period; it's just right into marriage. No slow joining, no slowly being introduced to each other's habits, etc. 

 

In a crazy kind of way, there is something slightly appealing about what they're doing-- having all the work done for you as far as dating and finding "the one", then taking a risk, working past your own comfort zone by marrying a stranger in hopes the experts indeed know what  they're doing and have found "the one" for you, knowing that you're supposedly compatible, so it's basically your job to make it work or not.  On the other hand, I don't want to be on TV, so no way I'd ever do this. Also, experts or not, love and attraction have abstruse elements no test or interview can pin down --certain things just can't be explained.

 

For the marriages that do seem to be working, I wonder how much of it is "love  the one you're with" , or MAFS Stockholm Syndrome. 

[SaucyMommy]

 On the other hand, I don't want to be on TV, so no way I'd ever do this. Also, experts or not, love and attraction have abstruse elements no test or interview can pin down --certain things just can't be explained.

 

For the marriages that do seem to be working, I wonder how much of it is "love  the one you're with" , or MAFS Stockholm Syndrome. 

 Yes! This right here is exactly my though too!  There are intangibles that can never be measured. I think of matching websites that match you based on compatibility like Eharmony.  I had lots of Combatibility dates that I was suppose to be perfectly matched with and there was either no chemistry or the personalities were too different. While I knew my hubby was the one very early on, I also would not have wanted to have been married to him on our first date! Yikes!

[cpcathy]

Jane VM's comment about Ryan and Jessica having a one night stand is spot on, I wish I had come up with it first! She slept with him, meaning he got what he wanted (perhaps what he usually gets) and now he has to keep hanging around that person instead of never calling them again.

[okerry]

Jane VM's comment about Ryan and Jessica having a one night stand is spot on, I wish I had come up with it first! She slept with him, meaning he got what he wanted (perhaps what he usually gets) and now he has to keep hanging around that person instead of never calling them again.

Yup. I think the same thing happened to Vaughn and Monet last season. Very often, if sex happens too fast, the man has no reason to win over the female in question -- so he doesn't. Even worse, as you said, he feels stuck with her when she doesn't just go home now that he's done with her. It's not politically correct to say that, but it sure is true.

 

This is why Ryan D. is being such an awful jerk to Jessica. He wouldn't act that way with a woman he genuinely cared about - no man does. But by being a passive-aggressive a-hole, he's hoping she'll get the message and end things herself so he doesn't have to be the one to tell her to leave. I sure hope she gets the message before he hurts her even worse.

 

Next season, I suggest The Experts give all the women a copy of The Rules. It would help prevent stuff like this.

[cpcathy]

Exactly. He acts like someone who is forced to spend the day with some chick he picked up at a bar.

[anarchyangel84]

I hate that I like this show.

•• Honestly Davina & Sean's honeymoon was boring to watch. When she was crying on that carriage ride & got mad at Sean for not comforting her, I wanted to smack her in her head. When she mentioned it later, he apologized & felt bad. I don't see many other men reacting that way so she'd better make this marriage work.

•• Ryan D. gets on my nerves. He talked about how he wants to be like his Dad & his Grandfather & how he wants to have a relationship like his Grandparents. If his Grandmother was on the back of a jet ski with his Grandfather driving, I doubt he'd scare her by going as fast as he could until they both fell off. He KNEW how scared Jessica was & all he had to say was, "that's how I show affection." His "affection" nearly drowned her. He's a douche bag. Then in that restaurant- I believe he told her that piercings are trashy. Because he's a douche bag. Jessica deserves better.

•• Based on their wedding, I didn't think Ryan R. & Jaclyn were going anywhere. But now I think they may be the couple that will make it. (I don't know how Ryan's gonna feel about watching the show & seeing the comments Jaclyn made about him when she first saw him. He does have quite a nose on him!) They're cute together. They just need to learn how to compromise. If they can't even figure out how to spend Christmas together, I don't know how they're going to figure out a living situation.

Edited April 9, 2015 by anarchyangel84

[JaneVM]

Yup. I think the same thing happened to Vaughn and Monet last season. Very often, if sex happens too fast, the man has no reason to win over the female in question -- so he doesn't. Even worse, as you said, he feels stuck with her when she doesn't just go home now that he's done with her. It's not politically correct to say that, but it sure is true.

 

This is why Ryan D. is being such an awful jerk to Jessica. He wouldn't act that way with a woman he genuinely cared about - no man does. But by being a passive-aggressive a-hole, he's hoping she'll get the message and end things herself so he doesn't have to be the one to tell her to leave. I sure hope she gets the message before he hurts her even worse.

 

Next season, I suggest The Experts give all the women a copy of The Rules. It would help prevent stuff like this.

I absolutely agree about The Rules book, I thought that book was too old for someone else to remember!  It doesn't matter how "evolved" society becomes, there are still some basic truths with men and women.  Men need a challenge and Jessica took all that away.  In a way she did not demand his respect by requiring him to win her over emotionally before they had sex. You can tell Ryan is not into the relationship and hopes she ends it first.  I feel sorry for Jessica as it seems her self-esteem is rather low.

[Jack Sampson]

Davina is pushing for emotional intimacy - except without the physical intimacy to go with it, you quickly start seeing each other as "just friends" or even brother/sister.  She needs to back off with the crying as much as (if not more than) Sean needs to knock it off with the random sex comments. 

 

Unlike last season, no one is likeable enough to keep my interest.  It's like everyone is giving off that "I'm here to be on TV" vibe I got from Jamie last season.  At least we had Jason and Cortney last season...notice how they were the only ones with vaguely interesting hobbies?  Only one this season with an actual hobby is Jessica - she desperately wants to be a model/actress...except that's not fun for the audience. 

 

At least Ryan has a good reason for not having any interesting activities.  I'm sure looking after his niece consumes a LOT of time.  About Ryan - he listed loyalty as his #1 feature in a spouse.  Does Jaclyn strike anyone as being fiercely loyal? 

[girlplease]

I've said from day one that Ryan D. has anger issues. I stand by that assessment. He seems to have a lot of free floating hostility which he sublimates as "jokes". Jessica did everything he wanted, even though she was scared. Not once did he offer reassurance or a kind word. Just his adolescent "jokes" and "kidding". He's so afraid he'll look whipped to his buddies that he's being a total jerk. (Newflash dude--I'm guessing your sainted Poppy didn't give a damn what his bros thought. His wife was his priority, not his asshole friends.) 

 

Maybe his Poppy was a jag too? o_0

 

Re Ryan and Jessica, if the milk/cow narrative were true, wouldn't it stand to reason that couples who wait to have sex would stay together foreeeever? We know that's not always the case either.

[okerry]

Re Ryan and Jessica, if the milk/cow narrative were true, wouldn't it stand to reason that couples who wait to have sex would stay together foreeeever? We know that's not always the case either.

 

 

Well, sure it's not. Waiting for sex until there's a real emotional connection is not a 100% guarantee that a couple will want to stay together. But if what you want is a long-term relationship - a marriage - then waiting does help. Jumping into sex right way lowers the odds significantly. Vaughn/Monet and Ryan/Jessica are becoming the poster children for that.

 

With so much at stake in this particular situation, since these people really are married and it's not just a first date, it's too bad the sexpert didn't talk about this and advise the couples to wait for at least a little while. But she doesn't seem to have ever heard of this phenomenon where sex too soon often means the guy will check out.

[girlplease]

And 50% of marriages end in divorce :D That's my point - waiting or not waiting, there's no guarantee your relationship is going to work out in the end.

[JapMo]

"Jumping into sex right way lowers the odds significantly. Vaughn/Monet and Ryan/Jessica are becoming the poster children for that.:"

But by the same token, Jason & Courtney were still on their honeymoon when they had sex...they only waited a day or two after the marriage. And look how good they are doing? These people committed to each other legally and spiritually. I can't read any of their minds, but I'm assuming that a man who just became a husband would think of his spouse in different terms than just some random female, and therefore not think less of her if she had sex with him on her wedding night as opposed to said random female putting out on a first date.

[SaucyMommy]

I don't think Jessica giving it up has anything to do with Ryan D being a douchebag. Sex or not he'd still be a douche. And I do not subscribe to the idea that all men need a good chase. If a man is mature and ready, they do not need a hunt. My husband was committed to me 100% after our first date. Because he was ready to be a boyfriend and now husband. 

[zxy556575]

And I do not subscribe to the idea that all men need a good chase. If a man is mature and ready, they do not need a hunt.

 

Me neither. Making a man wait for sex only delays the inevitable. He'll still leave right after he gets what he wants if that's the kind of man he is.

 

Sex on the first date is just as likely to lead to sex the next morning, then breakfast, then dinner, then eventually spending all your days together.

[Bandolero]

Re: sex too soon. For me, it's not about the man at all. When I have sex is my decision... it's about me. It is about respecting myself and my emotions. Waiting until I feel emotionally and physically ready for that kind of intimacy. Yes, after waiting to have sex, the relationship may ultimately end as most relationships do BUT I would have done due diligence.  I think that taking the time to get to know someone before such an intimate act builds trust and respect.

 

I think that sex is bonding for a lot of women (don't think it works quite the same for men IMO) and I want to make sure I am getting attached to someone who is worthy of that. You just cannot know who someone is in a day or two or even a week.

 

When I've had sex too soon (against my better judgment) and later found out the man is a pathological liar or is in a relationship, etc. I felt like a fool and had a lot of regrets knowing that if I had only waited... I would have found these things out. I think most people eventually show their true selves within the first few months. People often pretend in the beginning and try to impress.. but most of us cannot pretend for a lengthy amount of time. 

[SaucyMommy]

What you describe above is why it's a personal decision for every single person. :) 

[Jack Sampson]

The problem of waiting for sex in the context of this show is that you're basically treating the marriage as a date.  If you're not ready to jump in with both feet, don't go on the show, don't say "I do", don't go on a honeymoon, etc.  There are plenty of chances to back out of the marriage if all you're looking for is a guy to date.  Maybe the Bachelor would be a better fit in that case.

[SaucyMommy]

I'd have to agree. If you are willing to MARRY a stranger, one of the most committed and important things you will do in life, I'm fairly certain you should be ready to have sex with that person.  Which is again, why this show on so many levels is awful, cringe worthy and a guilty pleasure.

[Neurochick]

I wonder how many people would still be married if they had to marry their spouse on first meeting.  Sometimes things look good on paper, but not in the real world.  I've been certain that someone was "the one" but I was wrong; some people have "bad pickers" for whatever reason.

[MsPH]

I'd have to agree. If you are willing to MARRY a stranger, one of the most committed and important things you will do in life, I'm fairly certain you should be ready to have sex with that person.  Which is again, why this show on so many levels is awful, cringe worthy and a guilty pleasure.

 

I totally disagree. The fact that you're already committed to each other means, to me, that there's no rush to start having sex. You have a lifetime for that. Getting to know one another as people should be the first priority. Just because you're legally married now doesn't mean you suddenly know the other person. You still have to take the same steps, just in a much faster pace.

 

Regarding the whole "Did Jessica have sex with Ryan too soon?" question, I think, had she waited, Ryan would've probably still turned out to be a jerk BUT she may have felt a bit better about herself for not having had sex with such a loser. I know for me also, the issue is self-respect. I don't want to unwittingly have sex with some serial killer no matter how fun it may have been. I want to know that the guy I'm having it with is a decent human being and that's hard to determine after a few hours. Obviously in this scenario, the experts have supposedly done the work for you, but as evidenced by Ryan being on the show, they're not to be trusted. I would definitely still do my own research first. And self-respect does command respect from other people as well. But clearly there are plenty of people who don't think sex is even related to self-respect and who are fine with whoever their partner turns out to be as long as they've have fun. If Jessica is one of those people, then good for her, I just doubt it.

[SaucyMommy]

I think you are missing the point of my post. I didn't say you should be ready the minute you meet them, but if you are going to marry a stranger - which come on MARRIAGE is about trust, respect, commitment, love, friendship - and this show is essentially making light of that whole concept, even though they remind us marriage is "serious". Sean told his mom on the first episode - he will just get a divorce if it doesn't work - no big whoop. In my eyes, and for many, the commitment of MARRIAGE is more serious than having sex with someone. So my point was if you are going to marry sight un-see it should be surprising to no one that these same people are having sex with these people hours after meeting and very little time to actually be in private together. 

[okerry]

MsPH, I totally agree with your post. Yes, these people are legally married so it should be "okay" to have sex. Trouble is, the brain knows that but the heart and emotions don't. Being married means you DO have time to make sure it's right. Being married means it IS important to not rush things.

 

And yes, if they'd waited for sex, not only would Ryan have had a little more respect for her, Jessica might have escaped this with her own self-respect intact. That should have been the most important thing, but I don't think that's going to happen now.