S20.E04: Most Memorable Week

[katha]

While I don't disagree that it was a lot of staging for Willow's dance (staging that suited the theme IMO) and understand when people criticize it for being too much troupe and props (I was fine with it. If they do things like that every week, it's a different matter, but for a one-off telling the story of the books it was brilliant.), I do think some of it might have been camera work? They seem to have problems with that the last few seasons even if there are only two people on the dance floor, and in bigger numbers with the troupe the camera gets lost sometimes. So it might have looked different live for the audience and the judges.

[Uke]

Eh. while I'm at it, I guess I'll throw my 2 cents in on the others:

 

Rumer + Nastia: I had the same reaction to both. Rumer's "Waltz" didn't feel like a waltz and Nastia's "Argentine Tango" didn't feel like an AT.  They both performed well the choreo they had been given so I put the blame on their pros. The pros should be used to music with the wrong time signatures by now and should be able to adapt.  Also, it's my understanding that the stars pick their music for this memorable story week. Their pros could have guided their choices to be compatible with their dance styles. For Nastia, too many lifts, not enough time with her feet on the floor, and I just don't see any chemistry with Derek.

 

Patti: enjoyable but I don't get the sense she's learning much. I don't mind if she sticks around a bit longer while Chris and Suzanne get eliminated.

 

Chris + Suzanne: Neither are enjoyable to watch and I don't feel like they are absorbing the training.  Suzanne reminds me of Wendy Williams in a way...a big personality but is suddenly intimidated when having to actually learn and perform specific training. Hopefully they'll be the next 2 to go.

 

Robert: He's learning, has technique issues, far from perfect, BUT he is so joyful on the dance floor (and the bits of rehearsal I've watched) that he makes me feel his joyfulness. That's a total win in my book.

 

Riker: This tango just made me nervous.  It was like a power struggle.  He's got real potential and I wish he'd gotten a better pro. Allison just isn't cutting it as a teaching pro.

 

Noah: Inspirational, amazingly strong, but I've just not seen much dancing over the past 4 shows. (what kind of abs must Sharna have to be held up in that jawdropping 1-arm lift!?!)

 

Michael: I don't think he had any chance of getting to semi-finals but this rumba was his best dance and I'm glad he got his story out.

 

So glad there's no switch-up this season.

 

 

 

[calipiano81]

While I don't disagree that it was a lot of staging for Willow's dance (staging that suited the theme IMO) and understand when people criticize it for being too much troupe and props (I was fine with it. If they do things like that every week, it's a different matter, but for a one-off telling the story of the books it was brilliant.), I do think some of it might have been camera work? They seem to have problems with that the last few seasons even if there are only two people on the dance floor, and in bigger numbers with the troupe the camera gets lost sometimes. So it might have looked different live for the audience and the judges.

I was thinking this too. The camera work makes you have to refocus on Willow because it is not a continuous shot and there were instances it chose not to show Willow at all. It was probably much easier for the judges and the live audience to watch Willow the whole time.

[LadyMustang65]

While Derek is obviously necessary to the lifts, Nastia was doing her part in every single one of them. So it wasn't like he was just lifting her with no assist or effort from her. Her core, leg strength and flexibility were all important to every single one of those lifts looking as beautiful as they did.

 

**That poster was responding to my remarks.  I don't think either one of us was questioning her ability at doing them.  Lifts are not easy, and if not done properly, they look terrible.  This would be an area where Nastia's gymnastics training would definitely help with her ability to execute lifts.  Our/my complaint was the amount of time that was spent in lifts in that dance.  It seemed like lift after lift after lift with very little actual dancing in between.  Now, that may be an incorrect perception if someone were to go back and actually time the amount of time spent in lifts and spent with her feet on the floor.  But that was definitely my perception while the dance was going on - I kept wondering when he was going to put her down and just let her dance.  I enjoy a good lift as much as the next person, but I want them to be within the context of the dance and not seemingly in place of a dance.  JMHO.  YMMV.  :)

[Zuleikha]

Lifts are dancing. Exhibition Argentine Tango often incorporates a lot of lifts, although they don't need to. I didn't time it out, but the the balance of footwork, poses, and dynamic lifts in Derek/Nastia's AT seemed pretty typical of a pro-level exhibition AT to me.

[HappilyEverAfter]

Rumer amazes me. I remember years ago when she was called potato head and was quite homely in the mags. I don't know if she has had plastic surgery or not as she still has her Daddy's prominent chin. She is very attractive now and her body is a 10. She would put most women to shame not to mention that girl can dance! I think Nastia has the edge due to her athleticism. Hope Riker sticks around. A few weak links are the Bachelor guy , Suzanne S and  the older African American lady can be inconsistent but was good this time around.

[legaleagle53]

Lifts are dancing. Exhibition Argentine Tango often incorporates a lot of lifts, although they don't need to. I didn't time it out, but the the balance of footwork, poses, and dynamic lifts in Derek/Nastia's AT seemed pretty typical of a pro-level exhibition AT to me.

 

You're forgetting that on this show, there are still specific rules for lifts even when they're allowed in a dance such as the Argentine Tango.  There cannot be more than two lifts, and they must naturally flow from the choreography.  That means no putting in a lift just for the sake of putting in a lift.  Otherwise, you'd have more lifting than actual footwork in the dance, which is the criticism that's been leveled at Noah and Sharna.

[HappilyEverAfter]

Patti Labelle. I am bad with names of all these people. BTW I love her music always have. I meant no harm in my above comment. I had to look up all their names so in the future when I comment I won't offend anyone like saying the contestant who has bleached blonde hair that giggles alot..  Please don't beat me too bad you guys!

Edited April 9, 2015 by HappilyEverAfter

[legaleagle53]

Patti Labelle. I am bad with names of all these people. BTW I love her music always have. I meant no harm in my above comment. I had to look up all their names so in the future when I comment I won't offend anyone like saying the contestant who has bleached blonde hair that giggles alot..  Please don't beat me too bad you guys!

 

No worries.  I just figured that you were simply too young to remember her.  It's hardly the Crime of the Century or the Unpardonable Sin.  :-)

[2LeftFeet]

You know, I'm not a football fan, but I know that three NFL guys have won this show.  When Michael was cast, I thought his success/failure would be very telling of NFL fans in general.  As expected, their blind support stopped short of the gay guy.

 

It's possible. Although, just as some might have withheld vote, others may have deliberately voted for him, because of his sexuality. To me, it's was about a lack of fan base. Michael never played one game. Of the 3 who won/were in finals, ALL played Wide Receiver, a more nimble position than Michael's defensive end. Another FB player, was Quarter Back Kurt Warner. He went further, to week 8. Wasn't particularly graceful or nimble, compared to the other three, BUT, he had a long, storied career with three teams and ended up with a Super Bowl ring with one of them. He had a huge fan base, which likely kept him on the show, longer than his dancing would have. Michael was a mediocre dancer without a large FB fan base. To me, one or the other is critical. While most think he's a better dancer than Chris, 'Prince Farming' has a huge fanbase coming off The Batchelor. Add to this the timing issues in week three and resulting lower scores, there simply wasn't enough votes to go another week, imo.

[2LeftFeet]

What I loved about Donald Driver (and it made me vote for him) was that he had clearly watched the show a lot AND he clearly understood it quite well.  I have never watched an NFL football game in my life.  Michael looked lost.

And still watches, it appears. He tweeted out support for Michael and Peta at least once and maybe more.

[OakGoblinFly]

You're forgetting that on this show, there are still specific rules for lifts even when they're allowed in a dance such as the Argentine Tango.  There cannot be more than two lifts, and they must naturally flow from the choreography.  That means no putting in a lift just for the sake of putting in a lift.  Otherwise, you'd have more lifting than actual footwork in the dance, which is the criticism that's been leveled at Noah and Sharna.

 

 

Rules on this show?  Are they published somewhere?  Surely you jest.

[truthaboutluv]

Rules on this show?  Are they published somewhere?  Surely you jest.

 

 

Seriously, with no sarcasm from me whatsoever, I am wondering about this myself. I've watched the show since the first season and have never heard about this. The only thing I know with regards to lifts is that it is illegal in dances that don't call for it and what constitutes a lift is both feet leaving the ground with an assist from the male. So like cartwheels/backflips,etc. are fine in dances that don't have lifts if the celebrity does it all on their own.

Edited April 9, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[legaleagle53]

Seriously, with no sarcasm from me whatsoever, I am wondering about this myself. I've watched the show since the first season and have never heard about this. The only thing I know with regards to lifts is that it is illegal in dances that don't call for it and what constitutes a lift is both feet leaving the ground with an assist from the male. So like cartwheels/backflips,etc. are fine in dances that don't have lifts if the celebrity does it all on their own.

 

Not "if the celebrity does it all on his/her own."  The test is whether the one doing the move could do it on his/her own.  If not, then it's a lift.

 

Granted, though, this show is not a model of clarity when it comes to setting forth the rules.  Its British counterpart, Strictly Come Dancing, is much more consistent in that department (and FAR more consistent when it comes to enforcing said rules!), which is how I know that the rules even exist in the first place.

[truthaboutluv]

Well just because the show was based off the British version, I don't think it's a fact that they follow all the same rules. They have different producers. Aside from the fact that I've never heard this be referenced on the show, I know for a fact that there has been multiple dances with more than two lifts. So if this is a rule, apparently it's been broken many times over or the Pros themselves aren't aware of it. 

Edited April 9, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[McManda]

Not "if the celebrity does it all on his/her own."  The test is whether the one doing the move could do it on his/her own.  If not, then it's a lift.

 

I thought this was the generally accepted rule, but sometimes I feel like Carrie Anne starts to miss being the lift police and will randomly call things lifts. There was a big outrage years ago when Edtya basically did a handstand on Cameron Mathison's lap (during their paso?) and CAI docked them points because she considered it a lift. (Even though I don't even think Cameron's hands were on Edyta, so how that was a lift ... I still don't know.)

 

Basically ... there are rules sometimes. If they feel like it's in their narrative that night.

[PBGamer89]

There is no lift rule, only that it's not allowed in any style besides Freestyle, Argentine Tango, Salsa, Jazz, and Contemporary.

Edited April 10, 2015 by PBGamer89

[kitcloudkicker]

For me I wish they'd get rid of the stupid no lift rule all together, they only complain about it half the time, and it feels like "there wasn't enough content in that and you relied on too many tricks" is a criticism that gets contestants the same score as breaking the "lift rule," they could just go with that if there was any lift abuse. And it would have the added bonus of never having to listen to Carrie Anne call them "lifty-poos" again.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

The problem for Nastia isn't whether any given dance fits a standard.  It is that she has yet to show herself in any meaningful way.  No connection with voters = no votes from said voters.

 

My guess is one of these weeks she will blow a gusher of tears and it will be "The Moment" of the season.  

[truthaboutluv]

My guess is one of these weeks she will blow a gusher of tears and it will be "The Moment" of the season.

 

 

I sincerely doubt it. Gushing tears is not something I see in Nastia's personality and I for one would much prefer and have way more respect for her just being who she is, whether she wins the ugly mirrorball trophy or not, than faking some emotion to try to manipulate a few votes. Not to mention, that as I noted above, I think some are seriously underestimating Nastia's fan base irrespective of Derek. 

[Danseur]

I just looked at two Argentine Tangos on Strictly. Sophie Ellis-Bexter and Brendan did FIVE lifts in their Argentine Tango and Simon Webbe and Kristina did FOUR. Melissa Rycroft and Tony did NINE lifts in their Argentine Tango during All Stars, and numerous couples on DWTS have done five lifts, including Peta and Donald Driver who actually started their routine with a lift, which would eliminate the possibility that it "flowed naturally from the choreography."

If there are indeed rules about the number of lifts allowed, they have consistently been broken and/or ignored by the judges.

[crossover]

I just looked at two Argentine Tangos on Strictly. Sophie Ellis-Bexter and Brendan did FIVE lifts in their Argentine Tango and Simon Webbe and Kristina did FOUR. Melissa Rycroft and Tony did NINE lifts in their Argentine Tango during All Stars, and numerous couples on DWTS have done five lifts, including Peta and Donald Driver who actually started their routine with a lift, which would eliminate the possibility that it "flowed naturally from the choreography."

If there are indeed rules about the number of lifts allowed, they have consistently been broken and/or ignored by the judges.

I enjoy seeing the many lifts in the AT but maybe later on when the routines are longer.  I just think most people are disappointed because they know Nastia has the technique ability and wanted to see more of that.

[truthaboutluv]

Are most people really disappointed though or just some who for whatever reasons already are not fans - e.g. they feel like they don't connect to her, etc. I say this because while sure there were comments here about the lifts and her missing the character of the dance, I saw many other comments that the dance was absolutely stunning and she was gorgeous.

Anna T on Afterbuzz thought she deserved 9's and at least another 10. YMMV but I know for me, I saw no issues with the lifts. The "problem" if you will, was yes, her embodying the full character of the AT woman. That said, in my opinion, that performance was better than anything anyone else has done this whole season so far.

Also, as another poster above noted, lifts is still dancing. The effort and technique it takes to move seamlessly into each lift, pull it off perfectly and then move seamlessly into the next move, is dancing.

Edited April 11, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[crowceilidh]

I always want those people who think that lifts are easy and "not dancing" to just try a simple one.  Just one.  Assuming I could find someone who was up to the task of lifting me, I couldn't be lifted while maintaining any arched position if you put a gun to my head.  

[Andiethewestie]

I have no problem with the lifts, they are definitely part of dance, but lifts are there to punctuate the the mood of Argentine Tango not be the focus of the dance.  To me Nastia and Derek's dance was more of an exercise of "look at what I can do", instead of conveying the feelings of lust, passion, sexuality, even betrayal. There are far better examples of the dance on this show in previous seasons, with cool lifts, who could forget the ending of Meryl and Val's AT? or the sizzle of Gilles and Cheryl with hardly any lifts at all, it demonstrated the tension and the pining for a lover..  and they deservedly received a better reception from the judges. One of my all time favorites was Hines Ward and Kym, after they had that disasterous fall in rehearsal we know that Hines put his soul into keeping his partner safe from harm, all that emotion just poured out into the dance.   Now, if Nastia and Derek had shown the emotion of tango, as it should be that conversation between lovers, or the pain of unrequited love, it would have been a much better dance. 

Edited April 11, 2015 by Andiethewestie

[Mbeaker]

But those two things, IMO, are not mutually exclusive. An AT can have lifts and heat, within the same dance. The choreography, which Anna T commended, wasn't the issue there. It's Nastia herself, who, to me hasn't fully captured the character of any of her dances. I find that she goes in and out of performances. Mind you, this is a nitpick of mine because she's still a gorgeous dancer and would be a deserving winner. I've felt this way about several contestants, and some winners, in the past. Having seen Nastia's interviews during her Olympic career, I knew her arc on this show would be her coming out of her shell and being more expressive, in general.

[truthaboutluv]

An AT can have lifts and heat, within the same dance.

 

 

I don't think anyone has said otherwise. Some were commenting on the dance having too many lifts as being a problem and others were just disagreeing with that. As much as I said I think it is the best dance anyone has done this season, and stand by that, I do think she was lacking a bit in fully embodying the character. So I don't think anyone is saying that it has to be one or the other in the dance - lifts or connection. 

[crossover]

I liked the AT.  I thought Nastia made beautiful shapes in the routine.  But for me, it was more of a "look at what I can do" instead of "feel the passion with me" routine.  I don't know if Nastia can show the passion and connection or not.  She didn't this time.  You have to be a very accomplished dancer and performer to be able to connect and show passion when you're in a lift, coming out of a lift or going into a lift.  That's why it's not my favorite dance this season.  I guess I'm like a previous poster.  I like the AT lifts to be for emphasis. 

[Rrrhumba]

I liked the AT.  I thought Nastia made beautiful shapes in the routine.  But for me, it was more of a "look at what I can do" instead of "feel the passion with me" routine.  I don't know if Nastia can show the passion and connection or not.  She didn't this time.  You have to be a very accomplished dancer and performer to be able to connect and show passion when you're in a lift, coming out of a lift or going into a lift.  That's why it's not my favorite dance this season.  I guess I'm like a previous poster.  I like the AT lifts to be for emphasis.

I agree and I think it's as much on Derek as it is Nastia. To a certain extent, I had the same complaint when he partnered Shawn Johnson. Just because someone CAN physically do it all, doesn't mean you throw the kitchen sink at them. It's all "wow! Cool tricks! Great technique!" but little soul. When he does put forth "soul" to me sometimes it feels a little too contrived. Like Bethany's dance (rumba? Contemporary?) last season with the anti-bullying message. At the end of the day the heart of it was spelled out for the viewer through the production elements such as the text projected onto the stage, rather than through the movement and emotion/connection of the dancers themselves. I actually think Derek himself, as amazing a dancer as he is, may struggle to show his true self publicly. Try as I might I've just never "got" anything from him - it seems like he's a person who projects what he thinks people want to see, rather than who he actually is. This can't help someone in Nastia's position as I get the impression she's very much the same way.

[Andiethewestie]

Well I can't say that I never got emotion from Derek, IMO I think he very much feeds off the emotion of the partner, when I think of the work he did with Nicole, or Jennifer Grey, or with Allison that cool paso/tango contemporary fusion, or the video he did with Cheryl Cole, I feel a very passionate vibe from him and he dances with abandon. I think if the partner goes there he goes with her rather than trying to create something that makes her uncomfortable. I think he tends to be reserved with partners that are self conscious about creating passion, he tends to leave the opportunity for creating chemistry alone, and there could be many reasons why, but unfortunately the dance suffers as a result. This season especially, I think he is relying on her excellence in movement to carry them through, and is hoping that she will hear the comments and internalize them.  

 

For me there are some pros who are just magical in creating passion, I think Cheryl Burke was probably one of the best because she could take a partner with really no finesse at all like Rob Kardashian or Jack Osbourne and create something very special, even though they obviously lacked athleticism they had a special chemistry, the men were willing to be vulnerable and had great results.  

[Padma]

I can't help wondering how much better the Derek-Nastia partnership would be working if he wasn't juggling two demanding jobs 3000 miles and three time zones apart.

[truthaboutluv]

I honestly don't think his multiple jobs is the problem. I firmly believe I'd still be reading these same comments even if he wasn't doing the Radio City show because Nastia would still be who she is. I don't know if this unpopular or not, but I don't think the problem is Derek and his supposed inability to generate chemistry or connection with anyone or their limited rehearsal time. I just think Nastia is not a performer and on top of that, she's an athlete, with an athlete's mentality and stoicism. So she basically has to fight against her natural instinct to go into competitor mode versus performance mode. I've always said, there are only so many things you can teach someone. Some of it just has to be natural.

 

What's also funny about this stuff with Derek and Nastia, is that it feels like deja vu, because I read similar comments last season about him and Bethany and she unfortunately did not have Nastia's amazing natural technical ability. But it's just funny that two seasons in a row Derek has gotten celebrities with slightly closed off personalities. And I remember with Bethany, I felt like he paced things well with her. At the start of the season some felt his choreography was too easy or he seemed checked out and like he didn't care.

 

But when the season ended and I looked back at it, I felt like it was more that he was strategic in how he worked with Bethany. He gave her only so much that she could do and that she was comfortable with and little by little pushed her as her confidence grew and grew. I for one don't doubt for one second, Nastia is just going to keep getting better and better and will pull out some insane performances before the season is over. 

 

When he does put forth "soul" to me sometimes it feels a little too contrived. Like Bethany's dance (rumba? Contemporary?) last season with the anti-bullying message. At the end of the day the heart of it was spelled out for the viewer through the production elements such as the text projected onto the stage, rather than through the movement and emotion/connection of the dancers themselves. I actually think Derek himself, as amazing a dancer as he is, may struggle to show his true self publicly. Try as I might I've just never "got" anything from him

 

 

This is interesting because maybe I'm the weird one in how I view this show and the performances and all else. I've always stated that a long time ago, I started forcing myself to only watch the celebrities because as far as I'm concerned they're the ones really competing and ultimately the Pro is really there to guide and train them and help them get the ugly trophy. But they're not really the ones competing if that makes sense. 

 

So in saying that, I personally was very moved by Bethany's rumba even if it wasn't actually a rumba and thought the words and her performance were all incredibly beautiful because for me, I was only judging her and I felt she showed incredible vulnerability and heart. So essentially what I'm saying is that I don't ever need to connect or "get" Derek. Not saying I haven't but even if I didn't, it wouldn't matter because essentially, it's not about him for me.

 

Which funny enough is probably why I've never gotten on the "Golden Boy/evil/annoying" bandwagon about him. Don't get me wrong, obviously there is a partnership in the dance and connection between two people has to come from them both. I'm just saying that I don't need to feel like I "get" who Derek is or feel some connection to him. 

Edited April 12, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[Andiethewestie]

A dance like a Rumba or an AT for me requires an intimate partnership connection for it to be something to vote for, unless it's deliberately pure camp. This week Nastia and Derek have Jazz,  it's a broad genre, anything from charleston to contemporary jazz is part of it, so it can be a very a different type of connection, possibly more fun or tongue in cheek and that can be just as challenging to convey but it's very possible the partnership will work well.