Lifetime's VC Andrews Movies Topic (Flowers In The Attic, The Dollangangers, The Casteels, etc) - General Discussion

[JAYJAY1979]

17 minutes ago, qtpye said:

He seemed okay but it was so sad when he decided not to become an engineer.  Carrie did not feel good enough for him after he decided to become a minister.  Of course, this was not the guy's fault.

Carrie really was traumatized from being abused at such a young age and losing her beloved Cory.

Did the good doctor ever think of getting these kids some therapy?

 

Book took place in the 1960s...before therapy was the norm.

Had it been nowadays, all 3 siblings would have been in therapy and learning to readjust to the real world.

I do recall Carrie mentioning how she and Cory spoke in their secret language about being sinners and how Cathy/Chris looked at one another.  And then Carrie made mention that Cathy/Chris looked at one another in the same way Alex looked at her.  It was as if she didn't understand what was going on exactly until she found love as an adult.

[CountryGirl]

25 minutes ago, qtpye said:

He seemed okay but it was so sad when he decided not to become an engineer.  Carrie did not feel good enough for him after he decided to become a minister.  Of course, this was not the guy's fault.

Carrie really was traumatized from being abused at such a young age and losing her beloved Cory.

Did the good doctor ever think of getting these kids some therapy?

 

And Julian molesting her. 

The not-so-good Dr. Paul was too busy shipping Chris and Carrie off to college and boarding school, respectively, so he could molest Cathy to care about therapy. 

10 minutes ago, Dr.OO7 said:

The There Are No Therapists/Therapy Is For The Weak tropes. No one ever sees a shrink even though they desperately need to.

I think Bart Jr was the only one who did. 

[qtpye]

36 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

I think Bart Jr was the only one who did.

I guess he was not exactly a success story

Of course, all the men in Cathy's life are obsessed with Cathy with maybe the exception of Jory.

[andromeda331]

Today (Friday) Lifetime is showing an enhanced version of Dawn tonight. It'll have nine extra minutes to the movie.

[Spartan Girl]

Watching the second Dawn movie tonight, and JFC Dawn has terrible taste in men. First her brother, then her “brother”, and now a 30 year old man? Yes, he preyed on her but still, ICK.

[JAYJAY1979]

Secrets of the morning is where Dawn's IQ dropped.  She does regain her backbone and IQ in the 3rd book

[Snow Apple]

I forgot to watch yesterday. I hope they show it again before the third one.

[JAYJAY1979]

I managed to watch part 2.

It's been years since I read the book, but it seems like they adapted the important key elements of the book.  

Fran Drescher plays stern much better than I thought she would.  She definitely played the aging delusional actress well.  No Fran Fine laugh.

Donna Mills was not in it as much, but she was scary in the main scene she was in.

I liked that Dawn had an ally with Trisha and fit in well with her classmates...and Trisha shaded Clara Sue in one good scene.

Michael/Dawn was as creepy as in the book.

And wow.. the southern plantation that Dawn is sent to was so dark and gloomy.  Some nice southern gothic with the religious sister Emily and sweet Charlotte.

Dawn gets her backbone back at the end and the end of this part is perfect.  I'm awaiting Twilight's Child..that was my personal favorite of the books back when I read it.

 

[KaveDweller]

22 hours ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

Secrets of the morning is where Dawn's IQ dropped.  She does regain her backbone and IQ in the 3rd book

I don't remember what I thought when I read the book, but watching the movie I was just thinking how Dawn had this great set up in NYC, at a fancy school, with good friends, training to be a singer....and she ruined it all because she let her idiot teacher seduce her. Did she even use birth control?

I know all the VC Andrews series had to follow a formula of the main character having a daughter, but it seemed really dumb. 

[Steph Sometimes]

I really liked Trisha. I barely remember these books, but I know that many of the heroines had horrible sisters, but I don't remember a lot of kind, fun female friends in the Andrews-verse.

 

[andromeda331]

7 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I don't remember what I thought when I read the book, but watching the movie I was just thinking how Dawn had this great set up in NYC, at a fancy school, with good friends, training to be a singer....and she ruined it all because she let her idiot teacher seduce her. Did she even use birth control?

I know all the VC Andrews series had to follow a formula of the main character having a daughter, but it seemed really dumb. 

In the book Dawn knew nothing about birth control or where babies came from. I think it's Trish that asks her about it and if her mother ever told her. Of course neither mother did. I've always wondered if it was more likely for Dawn to somehow not know anything despite going to public school all her life made sense because it was the 70s. But I'm not sure my high school in the 90s there's no way any girl no matter how shy, religious or innocent wouldn't have learned in the hallways of high school. 

[andromeda331]

Dawn's back to being an idiot. Believing everything Michael said. He was a creep for sleeping with her but she should have seen through his lies.

I laughed when Jimmy mentioned joining the army but the war was over. Ah, no Jimmy, it really wasn't yet. Troops were coming back but the war didn't end until the fall of Saigon.

I love Trish and that all the other girls were great to Dawn. That was really nice. I was waiting for some shit that Heaven when through at her nightmare boarding school. I loved Trish putting Clara Sue in her place. That was awesome. 

I had hoped Fran would be nicer or a cool mentor. She was terrible.

I wanted more of Charlotte. I loved her in the book. Emily was about what I expected. Horrible woman. I'm surprised they waited so long to bring up Eugenia. I thought they would have mentioned it in the first movie. 

Laura Sue's not really coming off the way she should. She was really more pampered while at the same time shrinking from any duty as wife, mother, work, etc. She always used not feeling well to get out of it all and any hard questions. Although I do feel sorry for her. Lillian killed her cat and kidnapped her daughter. I liked her changing into a bright dress after Lillian's funeral, taking her broach, and declaring cats were allowed again. I'm not sure why Dawn was surprised. Lillian was horrible to her. 

 

[Spartan Girl]

32 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I had hoped Fran would be nicer or a cool mentor. She was terrible.

Maybe but she deserves credit for calling out Jimmy and Dawn’s relationship for being nasty. “They still frown upon this kinds of things here.” Hee.

[MCMLXXVII]

17 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

In the book Dawn knew nothing about birth control or where babies came from. I think it's Trish that asks her about it and if her mother ever told her. Of course neither mother did. I've always wondered if it was more likely for Dawn to somehow not know anything despite going to public school all her life made sense because it was the 70s. But I'm not sure my high school in the 90s there's no way any girl no matter how shy, religious or innocent wouldn't have learned in the hallways of high school. 

Does anyone know exactly what year this takes place? If Dawn hadn’t been hit by the car, I feel like she could have gotten an abortion in 1970s NY, and gone on with her life. 
I haven’t read the books in years, but didn’t Lillian’s husband rape Laura Sue? I was a bit surprised Dawn accused her of “seducing her father in law” since she obviously knows how that family rolls from Phillip’s entitlement.

[andromeda331]

13 minutes ago, MCMLXXVII said:

Does anyone know exactly what year this takes place? If Dawn hadn’t been hit by the car, I feel like she could have gotten an abortion in 1970s NY, and gone on with her life. 
I haven’t read the books in years, but didn’t Lillian’s husband rape Laura Sue? I was a bit surprised Dawn accused her of “seducing her father in law” since she obviously knows how that family rolls from Phillip’s entitlement.

Secrets of the Morning takes place in 1973.

Yes, in the book Lillian's husband raped Laura Sue. I was really surprised they didn't go there in the movie especially with Laura Sue's reaction to more to William's will and how she was when Dawn found her. I really expected her to tell Dawn that she was raped. In the book Dawn accused her of seducing her father-in-law only to be told she was raped.  Maybe that'll be in the next movie?

[KaveDweller]

25 minutes ago, MCMLXXVII said:

Does anyone know exactly what year this takes place? If Dawn hadn’t been hit by the car, I feel like she could have gotten an abortion in 1970s NY, and gone on with her life. 

1973, so it would have been after Roe v. Wade. I am guessing if she hadn't been hit by a car, Tricia or someone would have advised her of her options. But since she ended up in the hospital and they told Lillian

Of course, Dawn forgot her singer dreams really quick and seemed into being a mom at 17.

7 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Secrets of the Morning takes place in 1973.

Yes, in the book Lillian's husband raped Laura Sue. I was really surprised they didn't go there in the movie especially with Laura Sue's reaction to more to William's will and how she was when Dawn found her.

Yes, I was expecting that too. Her face when Dawn accused her made it pretty clear that is what happened. Maybe they thought it would be too many reveals at once.

[CountryGirl]

I enjoyed SOTM almost as much as the first episode, even if I felt like Dawn left her intelligence in Cutler's Cove. I had to remind myself she was only 17 but still, where was the gal that outsmarted OG Lillian at the end of Dawn?

I did love that the show leaned hard into NYC in the 70s and showing Dawn finally having some freedom. I loved the whole vibe, especially the fashion. I was born in the 70s but missed out on much of the threads, although I do have a picture of toddler me sporting purple and red bell bottoms (Carrie Dollanganger would be proud). The boarding house was quite nice and Fran Drescher's Agnes grated at times but was basically harmless. 

Along with the zinger about not going for incest (or quasi-incest) in NYC, she also gave us this memorable moment later in the show:

I adored Tricia - everyone needs a BFF like her in their lives, especially the judgment-free zone and the willingness to take on bitches like Clara Sue (I'm dispensing with the Clara Jean and Laura Jean nonsense - it's SUE, dammit!)

I will never look at NKOTB/'s Joey the same way again. He oozed Creep With a Side of Douche, even in our introduction to him by virtue of his poster, which I guess was the point.

I mean, who in the world but dumb Dawn would trust this guy?

I needed a Silkwood shower after watching their scenes, which can only be discussed as grooming, including the one on his round bed (although LOL, so very Michael Sutton). 

But oh wow to how naive Dawn was. Crushing on your teacher. 🚩 Who is old enough to be your dad. 🚩 Even if we buy Michael being in his 30s, which Joey has clearly drunk from the fountain of youth, still skeevy as hell. Choosing to lose your v-card after your inappropriate host creepily admits there is no party just her and him. 🚩 Losing said v-card after your inappropriate host gives a speech that should have had you running for the hills. 🚩 Keeping your relationship a secret, even from your BFF. 🚩

Brec and Joey sounded great on their duet, so there's that.

Elsewhere, I wasn't as bothered by Jimmy this go-round. Yes, it's ick that he insta-falls for not-my-sister-anymore Dawn, but him being the one to put on the brakes pre-Michael Sutton and not have Dawn get tied down with him when she's young and he's going off to the military showed some maturity unlike some creepy music teachers I know and also that he is struggling with adjusting the changes in their relationship. It's also promising that he looking to learn a trade and going into the military to allow him, a foster kid dropout, to have that chance.

Jimmy was barely onscreen but those moments he was were some of the strongest in the episode.

Khobe is also a cutie.

Did I lie?

The Jimmy moments also provided good juxtaposition vs the Michael ickiness - there isn't enough brain bleach in the world to make me forget him telling her "I love your innocence and wish you'd never lose it" even as he is unbuttoning her blouse while they're lying on the round bed.

I was shocked, I tell you, shocked, that good ol' Mikey left Dawn high and dry when he learned she was pregnant but wow he troweled on the Happily Ever After garbage to Dawn. Which she was all too happy to buy.

Which leads to Donna, ahem, Lillian, being back on my screen and there was far too little of her this episode. 

I mean, she is such scary-good casting for Lillian.

She looks, dare I say, disappointed, that Dawn proved her right after all, what with getting knocked up at 17.

Which gets Dawn sent off to The Meadows and it was exactly as I pictured it in the book as was Emily. Nutjob fanatic would be putting it mildly, although LOL at Dawn telling her she felt sorry for the devil having to spend an eternity with Emily someday soon.

Dawn learns yet another family secret, that once Lillian had a younger sister, Eugenie, whom she was obviously named after. So why name her that only to arrange for her kidnapping? I know the answer, of course, having read the books.

She gives birth with the Midwife From Hell Emily in attendance and we can all see where this is going the second Dawn holds Christie in her arms. Well, probably Dawn has no clue. Per the usual.

Thankfully, Jimmy is here to save the day and rescue her, not even stopping to have some feels about his former sister, now sort of girlfriend having a baby with some other guy. Nope, he's here to sweep her away and find Christie. 

Of course, Grandmother Cutler had a stroke (how convenient) so Dawn isn't immediately able to ascertain Christie's whereabouts.

Then she dies, leaving Dawn in despair - it's a familiar theme throughout the books and the show.

Except Lillian's attorney knows all the deets and has already spoken to the heartbroken, but understanding given they now know about the baby-napping and all, adoptive parents. So it's a happy day for Dawn.

But wait, there's more...she finds out that she's the heir to the majority of the Cutler fortune, the hotel included, because her real daddy is...William Cutler, Lillian's husband.

I'm okay with it being implied that he raped Laura Sue (it's Sue, dammit!) vs it being expressly stated. I did like that Laura Sue found a little sliver of backbone by allowing cats on the premises since mean Lillian never would and wearing pink vs the obligatory black. 

I respect Dawn for being "I don't have time for this, where's my daughter?" 

We get a quick update on Ormand, who has remarried and has another child. What about Fern? Ormand, you really are a disappointment in the daddy department as it doesn't seem he's bothered with his other kids, Dawn included.

Dawn is now wealthy, has Jimmy by her side, and is soon to be reunited with Christie. What could possibly go wrong?

[andromeda331]

10 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

We get a quick update on Ormand, who has remarried and has another child. What about Fern? Ormand, you really are a disappointment in the daddy department as it doesn't seem he's bothered with his other kids, Dawn included.

The way they did that cracked me up. Ormand was such a good dad in the first movie and Dawn got him out of jail. In this one he's nowhere to be seen and following Luke Casteel's level of forget about the other kids just remarry and have another one. Why didn't he try to get Fern back? She's only one at this point. He never even tried. I'm not even sure if Jimmy has seen him since he got out of jail and Jimmy out of foster care. Jimmy seems like he still has no one and joins the army which isn't a bad plan. But why didn't he and Ormand move in together? In the books Jimmy and Dawn are the ones to get Fern back and raise her. Even if he wasn't able to get his daughter back (although it doesn't appear he ever looked for her) he didn't even want to raise her when they got her back. 

[JAYJAY1979]

 

Looks like we will get a little bit of Donna Mills in part 3 if this preview is accurate 

[Spartan Girl]

Geez, Dawn can’t even get married without something terrible happening.

Well, if I had any sympathy for Clara Jean, it was gone when she caused Dawn’s miscarriage.

Edited July 23, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[Kiss my mutt]

I can’t get over Donna Millsbeng 82. She hasn’t missed a step and is perfect in this role. Fran Drescher too.

It took me the entire episode to realize that was Joey McIntyre and I had a crush on him back in the day. Dare I say, he can act?

I’m totally enjoying this even though it’s a little cheesy. I can’t get it over the supposed bio father’s wig!

My favorite character is Tricia. She’s pretty awesome in this. I’m glad the nurse gave her the note. I thought she’d be in cahoots with Lillian. 

[Spartan Girl]

It was kind of weird seeing everyone go from the 70s to the big hair and preppy outfits of the 80s.

Glad Dawn isn’t taking crap from anyone this time. I’m glad Luther and Charlotte got their happy ending.

So are we ever going to see Jesse Metcalfe again? It sucks that he basically disappears from the whole story since he was one of more the more likable male characters, at least in the first part.

Is it too much to hope that 

Spoiler

Christie won’t get raped by Philip like she does in the book?

 

[Scarlett45]

I finally caught up after being away last week-

My thoughts on the last two movies is that we need more CAMP. More Donna Mills. Clara Jean was a shitty villain, even when she caused Dawn’s miscarriage (which was horrendous), it was so bland. Dawn and Jimmy are sweet, but my fav part was when Dawn called Christie’s bio father out on his blackmail!

I admit it took me forever to recognize Joey McIntyre! And why no more Jesse Metcalf?

 

The fashions and the friendship between Dawn and her roommate Trisha were the best part. oh and why didn’t they give Fran Dresher more to do? She looks amazing!

 

I’m hoping next week is better with Philip going batshit and Christie kicking his ass. 

 

On 7/15/2023 at 10:04 PM, JAYJAY1979 said:

Secrets of the morning is where Dawn's IQ dropped.  She does regain her backbone and IQ in the 3rd book

My Mom watched with me today and said “this girl is sweet but I swear I was never this stupid!”

[andromeda331]

This was my least favorite of Dawn moves so far. Clara Sue couldn't die soon enough. Beating Dawn was the worset. Too bad she didn't take Fern with her. I hate Fern and I hate Jimmy believing that Dawn was being terrible to her. Charlie was right when he called Clara Sue lazy. I did like Dawn say Lillian was too smart to leave the hotel to Clara Sue. If she wanted you to have it or any part of the hotel she would have left it to you Clara Sue. I hate her. Fanny drove me crazy but I could get why she was the way she was. I felt sorry for her at times she was raped by the Reverend, abused by her father who never sent for her when he was doing well and neither did Heaven. But with Clara Sue she just a nasty person.  Philip's just an asshole who won't leave Dawn alone. She should have kicked him out of Cutler's Cove.

I didn't like the time jump. Laura Sue just didn't work for me. She never felt like Laura Sue. Bronson got to be the one to tell Dawn about the rape. He tells her that sometimes she's not faking illnesses but we never saw it. Dawn was still annoyed with her the same as before she found out about the rape.

Poor Randolph he was just so sad at the end. Of course he killed himself on Dawn's wedding day.

I loved seeing Trisha. She was such a great friend. I loved Dawn taking down Michael. And Lillian was the one who encouraged her. 

I love seeing Charlotte and Luther again. How happy they were that Emily was dead. 

[Scarlett45]

3 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Fanny drove me crazy but I could get why she was the way she was. I felt sorry for her at times she was raped by the Reverend, abused by her father who never sent for her when he was doing well and neither did Heaven. But with Clara Sue she just a nasty person.  Philip's just an asshole who won't leave Dawn alone. She should have kicked him out of Cutler's Cove.

Fanny was damaged but she did have love and loyalty in her, we could see when she rescued Annie in Gates of Paradise (the one book in that series I actually read). 
 

Clara Sue just walks around doing nothing until she beats Dawn. She was a shitty villain- I didn’t mind her teenage quips in the first movie but she should’ve had more to do as she got older. I don’t even blame the actress, the writing just sucked. Only time I loved Laura was when she took Lillian’s pin and changed into hot pink from the funeral clothes.

[JAYJAY1979]

Twilight Child is probably the only ghost written book that spanned years.

My thoughts on the 3rd movie:

- they didn't include the custody issues between Dawn and the people that adopted Christie.  It wasn't important so I understand why it was left out.

-the scene where Clara Sue was beating up Dawn was intense..probably the most intense scene of the movie.  It was brutal.

- I loved the use of Emily and Lillian as 'ghosts' affecting Dawn, though they cut out the part where Luther told Dawn that Charlotte was Lillian's from her 'dad'.. which made Dawn understand why Lillian was the way she was.

-loved the Clara Sue death scene..much better than in the book.

-Randolph was a tragic character 

-Fern was everything Clara Sue should have been.

-Betty Sue/Philip story was done well...and she seemed so sweet..but there is a hint she knows Philip doesn't love her (which I'm sure will lead to the coldness she will display in Midnight Whispers).

-Oramand was in the book..so not sure why he wasn't in the movie.

[Scarlett45]

@JAYJAY1979 Randolph was tragic but he was a FLAT! The actor was good in the Casteel series, I just feel like the writers were asleep at the wheel. 

1 hour ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

I loved the use of Emily and Lillian as 'ghosts' affecting Dawn, though they cut out the part where Luther told Dawn that Charlotte was Lillian's from her 'dad'.. which made Dawn understand why Lillian was the way she was.

I do think that would’ve humanized Lillian quite a bit. I’m glad we got to see that Charlotte and Luther were happy together. 
 

Edited to add- given that Donna Mills was the strongest actor in this entire cast, we should’ve had more “haunting”, wouldve given us more of Dawn’s inner turmoil. 
 

The child actor who played Fern was quite good, it required a lot of nuisance that you can’t always get from a child performer. We knew she was no good but you got why Jimmy saw the good in her. 
 

This series is reminding me of the Landry series, but there we had stronger performers and the twin who played Giselle was so devilishly campy it was more fun. Dawn has Ruby’s sweetness but there’s nothing to balance it. 

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Fanny was damaged but she did have love and loyalty in her, we could see when she rescued Annie in Gates of Paradise (the one book in that series I actually read). 

That was my favorite moment. I loved Fanny being the one to rescue Annie. 

 

Quote

Clara Sue just walks around doing nothing until she beats Dawn. She was a shitty villain- I didn’t mind her teenage quips in the first movie but she should’ve had more to do as she got older. I don’t even blame the actress, the writing just sucked. Only time I loved Laura was when she took Lillian’s pin and changed into hot pink from the funeral clothes.

Yeah that was really the only time I loved Laura too. It was great. Clara Sue's teenage quips was fine. She was a teenager but she never did anything else. She was supposely the best singer until Dawn came along she could have done that to "show" up Dawn and rub it in her face when Dawn. Even loser Charlie pointed out that at all she did was talk about Dawn or wanting to go after her. At that age that was still all she wanted. That's it. She had nothing else going in her life. Trisha's takedown of her in the second movie was spot on Clara Sue thought she was the best but really she was a big fish in a small pond. Outside the school no one cared who she was or who her family was.

 

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

This series is reminding me of the Landry series, but there we had stronger performers and the twin who played Giselle was so devilishly campy it was more fun. Dawn has Ruby’s sweetness but there’s nothing to balance it. 

She was so fun whether she was being terrible to Ruby or not. Who else would pretend to still be in a wheelchair so she could "miraculously" recover. Only Giselle.

[Scarlett45]

4 hours ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

Fern was everything Clara Sue should have been.

I missed this the first time I responded- YAAAAAASSSSSS. 

[Scarlett45]

9 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Yeah that was really the only time I loved Laura too. It was great. Clara Sue's teenage quips was fine. She was a teenager but she never did anything else. She was supposely the best singer until Dawn came along she could have done that to "show" up Dawn and rub it in her face when Dawn. Even loser Charlie pointed out that at all she did was talk about Dawn or wanting to go after her. At that age that was still all she wanted. That's it. She had nothing else going in her life. Trisha's takedown of her in the second movie was spot on Clara Sue thought she was the best but really she was a big fish in a small pond. Outside the school no one cared who she was or who her family was.

Yup. I did LOVE Trisha. She was a great side character in the second movie (my favorite actually). And I wish we had seen more of Clara Sue being super jealous of Dawn and trying to “one up her” yet failing. Her entire takedown with Charlie was SO LAME, assuming she was a Cutler, Grandpa Cutler left 60% to Dawn- the hotel was HERS. Period. Clara Sue was just lame. Dawn should’ve had her ass arrested and thrown in prison. 

 

On 7/14/2023 at 3:20 AM, andromeda331 said:

Today (Friday) Lifetime is showing an enhanced version of Dawn tonight. It'll have nine extra minutes to the movie.

What did they show in the enhanced version?

[Steph Sometimes]

Add me to the list of people who love Tricia. What a refreshing change from all the evil stepsisters and bratty half-sisters and weak mothers and diabolical grandmothers in the Andrews-verse. 

I thought Brec was starting to resemble Reese Witherspoon a bit. Or maybe just Elle Woods with the hairstyle and pink suits.

Laura Jean had a few good lines--including what she said to Randolph about his dead mother during the wedding.

The name Laura Jean makes me think of Lara Jean from "To All the Boys..."

Was I not paying attention to the second movie or was there not a lot with Charlotte and Luther? I remember them from the books, but when they showed up at the end of this movie, I couldn't really remember their scenes. Maybe I just missed it.

[CountryGirl]

This was the weakest installment of the series for me, which pains me to type, although even bad VC Andrews is still good.

Don't misunderstand, there were some very strong moments sprinkled throughout.

The one that resonated the most was Dawn's and Jimmy's grief over the loss of their baby, closely followed by Dawn revealing to Clara Sue that she (Dawn) was the only Cutler in the room, Dawn recoiling in horror after grabbing Fern and realizing she was behaving like Lillian (in fairness, Fern is a brat) and Dawn foiling Michael's plan to blackmail her.

It just felt like too many plots and villains crammed into the two-hour episode. We had Clara Sue (whose death scene was so bad it was so good), Michael, Fern, Philip, Ghost Lillian and Ghost Emily. 

There was a missed opportunity with Clara Sue, who was a cartoon cutout villain and not who she could have been as the substitute for "dead" Eugenia/Dawn and her learning she was Bronson's daughter, not Randolph's.

It also bugged me that Dawn still was not coming clean with Jimmy about Philip's attempted rape and continued harassment. And Jimmy had Philip stand in as his best man!!! Gross. Elsewhere, Randolph was wasted (throughout the series but especially here) but I guess par for the course for the actor, whose Troy was so un-Troylike. The Gavin intro was blink and you missed it. At least they provided an excuse for Ormand not being there as he couldn't cross state lines, but shouldn't the charges have been dropped vs him being paroled since he didn't actually kidnap anyone? 

On a positive note, I loved seeing Trish again and the 80s fashions and hair were perfect, even if no one looked a day older than 1975. Bronson was also a really good guy, his cheating with Laura  Sue while married to Randolph notwithstanding.  I liked his conversation with Dawn, except Laura Sue should have been the one to share that she had been raped (although Dawn, all the signs were there, sweetie).

Here's to hoping we are 4 for 4 for Philip not actually raping anyone with Midnight Whispers and that the episode is better than the novel, which was a snoozefest. Even Gates of Paradise (book) had the amazing Fanny rescue scene which sadly, the show did not. Why are all the daughter books/episodes (sans book Fanny rescue) so dang boring? 

When this is done, can we please get a downstairs Flowers In the Attic? Pretty please with powdered sugar donuts?

 

[Snow Apple]

On 7/23/2023 at 11:35 PM, Steph Sometimes said:

Add me to the list of people who love Tricia. What a refreshing change from all the evil stepsisters and bratty half-sisters and weak mothers and diabolical grandmothers in the Andrews-verse. 

Tricia is awesome. When I read the book, I kept bracing myself for Tricia to turn on Dawn since that's the VC Andrews pattern (remember those horrid boarding school classmates of Heaven and Carrie?), and I was so happy the betrayal never came and that she stayed loyal. When it was my sister's turn to read the book, she asked about the situation and I told her Tricia stays nice so she was able to relax about her.

[andromeda331]

On 7/23/2023 at 12:26 PM, Scarlett45 said:

I missed this the first time I responded- YAAAAAASSSSSS. 

So did I. @JAYJAY1979 is right. Fern should have been what Clara Sue was. 

4 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

Tricia is awesome. When I read the book, I kept bracing myself for Tricia to turn on Dawn since that's the VC Andrews pattern (remember those horrid boarding school classmates of Heaven and Carrie?), and I was so happy the betrayal never came and that she stayed loyal. When it was my sister's turn to read the book, she asked about the situation and I told her Tricia stays nice so she was able to relax about her.

So was I. I expected Tricia to be horrible or turn on her like we always got before. It was so great that it never happened. She actually was a really good friend to Dawn and loyal and remained that way. The whole group of girls was really great to Dawn and I wasn't expecting that either.

[Moxie Cat]

On 7/22/2023 at 9:06 PM, Kiss my mutt said:

It took me the entire episode to realize that was Joey McIntyre and I had a crush on him back in the day. Dare I say, he can act?

Little Joey was a regular for a season of the David E. Kelley show "Boston Public" about 20 years ago. I always thought he was a decent actor in that, but I never saw him again in anything until now. Living off those NKOTB residuals, I guess!

The introduction of Gavin was weird. In the book, it works because the whole family comes to visit. But Ormand and Edwina are OK just shipping little Gavin off to visit with Jimmy's family? And then they cut out the infamous scene with Fern and the two kids anyway (which is OK). I guess they needed to introduce Gavin as a character, but then he just disappeared after that scene. 

Couldn't the show get Jesse Metcalfe for more than one episode? I hope he shows up for Christie's party at the opening of Midnight Whispers.

[Spartan Girl]

Okay, watching final movie.

Poor Dawn and Jimmy. What a way to go. Philip is the worst.

I guess Christie and Gavin is the least disgusting of VC Andrews couples since they’ve always known they were just related in name only…kind of like Cher and Josh in Clueless. I do love Christie’s birthday gown.

[JAYJAY1979]

From what I recall Fern was a more effective antagonist in Midnight Whispers than Clara Sue ever was in the other books... and I liked in Twilight's Child, there was a scene where Betty Ann sensed that Philip didn't love her.. which was the seed that eventually led Betty Ann to become cold/distant in Midnight Whispers

[Spartan Girl]

Is it wrong to say the rapes got cut from the movies? Not that I’m minimizing the assaults, but I’m just glad both Dawn and Christie were able to escape in those situations.

[JAYJAY1979]

Unlike with Gates of Paradise, the changes done on Midnight Whispers kind of enhanced the story.. which always felt a bit incomplete with some dots not connecting.

- While I understand omitting Laura Sue in the movie vs the book, it does take away the reason why Branson was unable to take Christie/Jefferson (since Laura Sue was declining mentally and needed constant care).

- Christie had more backbone in this movie vs in the book.

- Betty Ann's descent into becoming the wicked aunt was better explained here then in the book where she was just cold/mean in the book with no explanation while this movie added the context (i.e. finding Philips shrine to Dawn, projecting her anger at Philip not loving her onto Christie, etc).

- In the book, I don't think Philip had anything to do with Dawn/Jimmy's death.. it was an accident... but in the movie, he was the cause of their deaths (Jimmy's on purpose, Dawn's by accident).  Which did add to his mental decline where he confused Christie with Dawn.. partly due to guilt over causing her death.

- Fern did have one brief moment where she wasn't evil (when she understood why Christie was angry at Philip).. but otherwise, she was just evil.. but actually drove the action of the 2nd half of the movie vs Clara Sue.. who really didn't do anything except cause Dawn's miscarriage.

- I'm glad the movie showcased the Meadows again.. the darkness/gothic undertones still there with a touch of Charlotte clinging to her doll.

 

I'm hoping once the strike is over, Lifetime greenlights Darkest Hour because the movie kind of set the stage with Charlotte's tour with Christie of the Meadows.. and the history of her dad, 'mom', Eugenia, Emily, and Lillian... plus the loveless start of Lillian's marriage to Cutler Sr.    I guess Lifetime dropped the Lillian being Charlotte's mom story since I don't think that was ever mentioned in the movies.

Edited July 30, 2023 by JAYJAY1979

[Scarlett45]

38 minutes ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

Unlike with Gates of Paradise, the changes done on Midnight Whispers kind of enhanced the story.. which always felt a bit incomplete with some dots not connecting.

- While I understand omitting Laura Sue in the movie vs the book, it does take away the reason why Branson was unable to take Christie/Jefferson (since Laura Sue was declining mentally and needed constant care).

- Christie had more backbone in this movie vs in the book.

- Betty Ann's descent into becoming the wicked aunt was better explained here then in the book where she was just cold/mean in the book with no explanation while this movie added the context (i.e. finding Philips shrine to Dawn, projecting her anger at Philip not loving her onto Christie, etc).

- In the book, I don't think Philip had anything to do with Dawn/Jimmy's death.. it was an accident... but in the movie, he was the cause of their deaths (Jimmy's on purpose, Dawn's by accident).  Which did add to his mental decline where he confused Christie with Dawn.. partly due to guilt over causing her death.

- Fern did have one brief moment where she wasn't evil (when she understood why Christie was angry at Philip).. but otherwise, she was just evil.. but actually drove the action of the 2nd half of the movie vs Clara Sue.. who really didn't do anything except cause Dawn's miscarriage.

- I'm glad the movie showcased the Meadows again.. the darkness/gothic undertones still there with a touch of Charlotte clinging to her doll.

 

I'm hoping once the strike is over, Lifetime greenlights Darkest Hour because the movie kind of set the stage with Charlotte's tour with Christie of the Meadows.. and the history of her dad, 'mom', Eugenia, Emily, and Lillian... plus the loveless start of Lillian's marriage to Cutler Sr.    I guess Lifetime dropped the Lillian being Charlotte's mom story since I don't think that was ever mentioned in the movies.

I agree with all this. I fucking hated Fern for torturing poor Charlotte in that way, but it felt in character. 
 

I am always very sensitive to how mentally disabled people are portrayed on film, but outside of actually hiring an actress with an intellectual disability they did a very good job of writing for Charlotte and her not being a caricature- but an actual character.  
 

Initially I wondered why Christie didn’t go to Bronson first, but I assumed he was out of town- she was right to get her ass out of there after Philip’s attempted assault. Bet was so gross, knowing that her husband was constantly harassing his SISTER and then starting in on his niece, and she’s angry at HER?? I loved with Christie called her on her BS, and stood up for herself. 
 

I liked Christie more than Dawn. She had an “umph” to her. Dawn was sweet but bland. 

[Steph Sometimes]

This installment seemed even more torture-porny than usual. It was one terrible thing after another for poor Christie and Jefferson. 

So question. When they showed the graves, I think Dawn's was listed as:

Dawn Longchamp Cutler.

Wouldn't it be the other way around? I know she spent years as a Longchamp first (when she was her husband's "sister"), but I'd assume they wouldn't be focusing on that. 

Jimmy looked good with glasses.

Not enough Tricia. 

[Scarlett45]

7 hours ago, Steph Sometimes said:

This installment seemed even more torture-porny than usual. It was one terrible thing after another for poor Christie and Jefferson. 

So question. When they showed the graves, I think Dawn's was listed as:

Dawn Longchamp Cutler.

Wouldn't it be the other way around? I know she spent years as a Longchamp first (when she was her husband's "sister"), but I'd assume they wouldn't be focusing on that. 

Jimmy looked good with glasses.

Not enough Tricia. 

Yes you’d think it would be the other way around, embracing Longchamp as her married name rather than her adoptive name. 

[JAYJAY1979]

9 hours ago, Steph Sometimes said:

This installment seemed even more torture-porny than usual. It was one terrible thing after another for poor Christie and Jefferson. 

So question. When they showed the graves, I think Dawn's was listed as:

Dawn Longchamp Cutler.

Wouldn't it be the other way around? I know she spent years as a Longchamp first (when she was her husband's "sister"), but I'd assume they wouldn't be focusing on that. 

Jimmy looked good with glasses.

Not enough Tricia. 

Tricia wasn't even in the book except a brief mention of her as her mom's oldest friend from NY.  This movie at least gave her a slightly bigger part.

And yeah I would think she would put Longchamp as her last last name instead of Cutler..unless Philip was the one in charge of the tombstone..then we would know why it is the way it is.

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

And yeah I would think she would put Longchamp as her last last name instead of Cutler..unless Philip was the one in charge of the tombstone..then we would know why it is the way it is.

He probably was. The actor who played Philip did a great job, he was in every film and became increasingly more unhinged as time went on. From movie 1 he was presented as a teenaged creep who we might think would leave Dawn alone after she defended herself against his attack (he couldn’t rationalize that she was into it) to full on delusional. When he attacked Jimmy with the wrench in the basement, like wtf dude, Dawn was never yours, and she is your SISTER she doesn’t want you! Jimmy or no Jimmy!

[CountryGirl]

This is definitely the best of the "daughter" movies, even if it felt like "The Perils of Pauline, ahem, Christie Longchamp" at times. 

They packed A LOT into this episode and not all of it landed. I don't buy that Philip and Bet would have ended up with custody of Christie and Jefferson. There is no way boss lady Dawn wouldn't have had a will with explicit instructions (for Trisha or Bronson to take them), especially knowing if something did happen to her and Jimmy, Philip, as the closest kin, would have been likely to get his lecherous hands on her daughter. It also bugged that Bronson wouldn't have postponed his business trip to take in his step-grandkids. IIRC, in the book (which I read a good two decades ago), Laura Sue was very ill and he had his hands full with that (even though I thought, dude, you are rich, you can figure it out back then).

Bet certainly upped the bitch factor but I guess finding our your husband and father of your children is in love with his sister and substituting his niece for said sick obsession would make anyone crazy. But she was awful to Christie and Jefferson as were her bratty twins. 

Fern and her it's a little early for this goth get-up was honestly boring, except in that horrible scene where she tortured poor Emily. 

I'm glad they brought closure to Christie's biological father storyline. I hope to see more of Joey in the Lifetime universe. 

The Philip actor really sold unhinged well and was that his Emerson Peabody uniform in that final scene? Great touch if it was. Ditto with Christie wearing what I'm thinking was one of Lillian's old dresses that looked similar to the one worn by Lillian in the cover of Darkest Hour. 

I loved that The Meadows still retained its creepy vibe even as Emily and Luther were so kind and loving. I loved how protective Homer was of his mom. 

After finding Darkest Hour a snoozefest of a read, I am kind of wanting to see it get FITA: The Origin treatment now. Obviously,  I could do without poor Lillian being raped by her father/uncle but to see how she takes on Bill and becomes the leading lady of Cutler's Cove would be interesting - it could go up to the kidnapping plot. 

[Scarlett45]

8 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

After finding Darkest Hour a snoozefest of a read, I am kind of wanting to see it get FITA: The Origin treatment now. Obviously,  I could do without poor Lillian being raped by her father/uncle but to see how she takes on Bill and becomes the leading lady of Cutler's Cove would be interesting - it could go up to the kidnapping plot. 

That would be cool. But what FITA: The Origin so amazing was 1. The writing, 2. The acting. We had some kick ass actors in both primary (Jemima Roper, Max Irons🥰🥰 and Hannah Dodd all BROUGHT IT) and secondary parts (like Nella, Harry, fleshing out Mal etc). Yes it was from Olivia’s view point but we got to see all the people that made up her life. If the actors aren’t amazing it won’t work. Let’s get Donna Mills back and have her kick off the narration. 

[andromeda331]

Fern was fine until she tortured Charlotte with the doll. Go die Fern. 

I love Charlotte's brightening up the portraits especially Emily's. 

I like this idea of Philip causing Dawn's death by trying to kill Jimmy. It works better for him going crazy and of course he'd be the cause of death. 

While I get Aunt Bets issues I still think it's shitty of her to have done nothing while Philip killed Jimmy and was trying to rape Christie. It's one thing to be pissed about Philip only caring only about Dawn, seeing the shrine and later Christie. But Dawn clearly wanted nothing to do with him and Christie kicked him and ran away from him. She chose not to do anything to help her but take her anger out on Christie and Jefferson. I do like it coming out at the end.

I don't think Dawn did leave the kids to Philip. i think that was just another lie from Philip. 

I liked Charlotte showing Christie around the Meadows and filling a little more pieces of how Lillian ended up with William and the "official" story about Charlotte but I'm surprised they didn't put in the rest of it that Charlotte was really Lillian's child via rape by her uncle. 

They did a good job with this series not FITA Origin good but it was still very good and better then the books. 

[CountryGirl]

10 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

That would be cool. But what FITA: The Origin so amazing was 1. The writing, 2. The acting. We had some kick ass actors in both primary (Jemima Roper, Max Irons🥰🥰 and Hannah Dodd all BROUGHT IT) and secondary parts (like Nella, Harry, fleshing out Mal etc). Yes it was from Olivia’s view point but we got to see all the people that made up her life. If the actors aren’t amazing it won’t work. Let’s get Donna Mills back and have her kick off the narration. 

All excellent points. Only if they bring all of what you said to the table will it work.

Otherwise, it would be torture porn.

[Scarlett45]

18 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

All excellent points. Only if they bring all of what you said to the table will it work.

Otherwise, it would be torture porn.

When this strike is over, they need to hire the writing team from FITA: The Origin, and the same casting team for the talent. 
 

Hannah Dodd was so good at giving Corinne layers I cannot wait to see her in Bridgerton in December. 

[CountryGirl]

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Hannah Dodd was so good at giving Corinne layers I cannot wait to see her in Bridgerton in December. 

Same.

And I would love to see Callum again. In...anything.