Lifetime's VC Andrews Movies Topic (Flowers In The Attic, The Dollangangers, The Casteels, etc) - General Discussion

[andromeda331]

15 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

It's a really good question. I think Olivia was jealous that Corinne had children at all, especially healthy children who were deemed gorgeous by society. She also was expecting the children to be born physically or mentally challenged (or both). I think that jealousy - of Corinne, her children - and John Amos' fanatical influence, convincing her that these children were devil's spawn (evil from the moment of conception - interesting how certain phrases can be burned into one's brain) and when she saw what she wanted to see in innocent moments (like Chris smiling at Cathy to reassure her that first night locked away), any soft feelings she had turned to hate.

But even though she's awful for assisting in locking them up, slapping Cory, picking up Carrie by her hair, drugging Cathy and tarring her hair, whipping Cathy and Chris, and the verbal abuse of all of them (and wowza, what a list!), she wasn't half the villainess Corinne was and she did, after all, tell them not to eat sweets. 

I can see that. Olivia lost everything while Corrine ran off with her uncle and everything was going great for them.  I also think she was jealous of the loving relationship Corrine got while she got the horrible Malcolm. 

14 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

It is not unheard of for abused persons to become abusers themselves*. No one wants to be the lowest person on the social hierarchy, and I could see how after Olivia endured decades of Malcolm's ill treatment, the loss of her sons, the "betrayal" of Corrine and Christopher, mental manipulation by nasty ass John Amos, she could turn all that rage towards the only people who couldn't fight back (the Dollanganger children). 

But as I often say in situations like this, together, Chris and Cathy would've been able to over power Olivia in a heart beat. Chris was a teenage boy (even though he was malnourished) and two people always have advantage over one. A swift blow to the head and Olivia would've been done for. I am always surprised when people abuse their little children, and then when the child is bigger and stronger than you, you're shocked they fight back. 

*Of course I do not think most abused people end up abusers, I just wanted to make that clear.

That's really what it was. Olivia couldn't lash out at the people she wanted to so she did to who she could. The Dollanganger kids. The only way she survived was becoming more and more like Malcolm.

14 hours ago, Daisy said:

Honestly, I think it was because they trusted their mother. i mean no matter how hard/angry you are - you wanna believe that your mom is still your mom. Look how long it took Christopher to crack.

Christopher was really the problem. Whether it was still trusting his mother or scared to leave and take care of his siblings. He was the hold out. Cathy realized their mother was a loss cause a lot sooner and wanted to leave. She couldn't convince her brother of that. Cory dying was really what finally got him to realize they had to get out of there.

[andromeda331]

13 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Oh yes, I meant that they COULD HAVE knocked out Olivia and escaped after one of those beatings. But the psychological hold was so strong. 

They definitely could have. Chris was big enough that he could have knocked her out. Cathy could have too. The same girl who threatened that she would one day pay Olivia back while being beaten was not someone to back down from taking down Olivia to escape if she had too.  

[nokat]

I'm looking forward to Saturday.

[Kiki777]

Me toooooo!  Lifetime is airing all the episodes tomorrow starting at 2 pm and I already set my DVR to get them all.

[nokat]

24 minutes ago, Kiki777 said:

Me toooooo!  Lifetime is airing all the episodes tomorrow starting at 2 pm and I already set my DVR to get them all.

I'm going to rewatch too.

[Snow Apple]

I'm both looking forward and dreading it. The description is scaring me. We know what happens with Corrine and Christopher that made Olivia snap, but I hope nothing happens to Joel and/or Harry.

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

I'm both looking forward and dreading it. The description is scaring me. We know what happens with Corrine and Christopher that made Olivia snap, but I hope nothing happens to Joel and/or Harry.

So am I. They've done such a great job with Part 1-3 I'm worried that they won't be pull off the last episode and I'm worried they'll ruin Joel and/or Harry. I really, really want Joel to have gotten away from Foxworth Hall and had a happy life with Harry. That one of them got away and had a happy life.  It would also be a good way to compare to the choices Corrine made who left/kicked out of house for similar reasons. But when Christopher died she made the horrible decision to return for the money and she ended up destroying everyone and everything.  While Joel never returns and is happy.

Edited July 30, 2022 by andromeda331

[Scarlett45]

15 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

So am I. They've done such a great job with Part 1-3 I'm worried that they won't be pull off the last episode and I'm worried they'll ruin Joel and/or Harry. I really, really want Joel to have gotten away from Foxworth Hall and had a happy life with Harry. That one of them got away and had a happy life.  It would also be a good way to compare to the choices Corrine made who left/kicked out of house for similar reasons. But when Christopher died she made the horrible decision to return for the money and she ended up destroying everyone and everything.  While Joel never returns and is happy.

Me too.  (Bolding mine) I had to say that this is really brilliant. Yes Joel was a guy, so different social pressures (and no children) BUT Joel was also gay in an interracial relationship. Corinne did have children to feed but she was still conventionally gorgeous, relatively young, and memories of a happy life with Chris Sr. I would love if in the end we got to see the comparison between their choices. 

19 hours ago, Kiki777 said:

Me toooooo!  Lifetime is airing all the episodes tomorrow starting at 2 pm and I already set my DVR to get them all.

I’m watching now! Having it on in the background while I take care of my sister. By the time 7pm rolls around I will be ready!

Creepy moment from movie 1- when Olivia and Malcom are in The Swan Room and she goes to kiss him, and he flips the fuck out “what are you doing?”, “I thought that’s what wives do.” Malcolm was upset! Yet he was so charming during the courtship. Ummmmhmmm. 
 

Creepy Moment from Movie 1 #2- I forgot Mrs Steiner was the one who took Olivia’s telegram!

[nokat]

48 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Malcolm was upset! Yet he was so charming during the courtship. Ummmmhmmm. 

Then Olivia asks him why he chose her. He just wanted children.  He wanted his Corrine. That swan bed though as he's forcing himself on her. And Olivia being a virgin and probably not knowing that this is not what men should do.

[Scarlett45]

32 minutes ago, nokat said:

Then Olivia asks him why he chose her. He just wanted children.  He wanted his Corrine. That swan bed though as he's forcing himself on her. And Olivia being a virgin and probably not knowing that this is not what men should do.

Yes. This man just wanted a woman to run his home and give him legitimate children.
 

Even though Olivia was a virgin she knew that men don’t treat their wives that way, there was no tenderness or affection or kindness. It wasn’t that he wasn’t into her, he was MEAN to her. She knew Malcolm didn’t give a shit about her and was ready to GO before she realized her father was dead.   
 

I love how we have the thunder as Olivia confronts Malcolm over his rape of Alicia. I didn’t notice the rain storm the first time around. 

[nokat]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

I love how we have the thunder as Olivia confronts Malcolm over his rape of Alicia. I didn’t notice the rain storm the first time around. 

She knew by that time. Good notice of the rain storm.

[nokat]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

Even though Olivia was a virgin she knew that men don’t treat their wives that way, there was no tenderness or affection or kindness. It wasn’t that he wasn’t into her, he was MEAN to her. She knew Malcolm didn’t give a shit about her and was ready to GO before she realized her father was dead.   

Yes, she was like this isn't normal, got ready to leave, and realized she had no more options.

[Scarlett45]

So my Mom is going to watch the last movie with me. We just turned in the tv and she saw the scene of Malcolm (who she recognized as Max Irons) being creepy with the 1st Corinne’s portrait at the debutante ball. 
 

“Is that his dead wife? The blonde girl’s bio mother?”- my Mom

”nope Mom, that’s his mother, who abandoned him when he was 5. He’s a creeper who takes women into his Mother’s room to rape them.”- me

she recoiled and went “EEWWWW.”

[Scarlett45]

I’ve got my snacks ready! I’ll be back when the movie is over. 

[Spartan Girl]

Oh shit, Corrine talking to Malcolm that way? Shots fired.

[Scarlett45]

Okay I could not wait. So it was OLIVIA who caused Malcolm’s injury. Well revenge is a dish best served cold. Can’t say he didn’t deserve it. 

[Snow Apple]

Duuuuuude. That first half hour. Hot damn.

Christopher and Corrine knows! Malcolm gets his just desserts and it was dished out by Olivia! 

I should have trusted these writers. The rest is going to be a wild ride.

[Scarlett45]

No you didn’t speak that way to Nella! Thanks to @Spartan Girl for the fun Twitter account.

[Spartan Girl]

Wait, if John Amos was murdered, then who the hell was that guy in the other movies?!

Not sure if I like the redux of the Flowers in the Attic bit, rewriting it so that Olivia and not Corrine poisoned the kids, or at least convinced Corinne to do it. And I still can’t reconcile this more loving albeit crazy Olivia with the hard core evil bitch Ellen Burstyn played. But this show was still fun.

Edited July 31, 2022 by Spartan Girl

[Snow Apple]

Remind me if John Amos was in the other movies. I don't think he was in FITA because it was a gardener(?) who helped the children escape in the end. I don't remember the other movies as much.

This made me sad. I knew the end was coming but still disappointed this version of Olivia became The Grandmother. Malcolm started the abuse and John Amos finished breaking her.

[Scarlett45]

1 minute ago, Snow Apple said:

Remind me if John Amos was in the other movies. I don't think he was in FITA because it was a gardener(?) who helped the children escape in the end. I don't remember the other movies as much.

This made me sad. I knew the end was coming but still disappointed this version of Olivia became The Grandmother. Malcolm started the abuse and John Amos finished breaking her.

This movie wasn’t my favorite, I felt the stakes weren’t as high. 
 

But we know that Harry & Joel lived happily ever after!!

[Spartan Girl]

13 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

Remind me if John Amos was in the other movies. I don't think he was in FITA because it was a gardener(?) who helped the children escape in the end. I don't remember the other movies as much.

I thought it he was in If There Be Thorns, teaming up with Corinne to get to Bart’s kid…

[Snow Apple]

2 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

I thought it he was in If There Be Thorns, teaming up with Corinne to get to Bart’s kid…

You're probably right. I know he was a big part of the book but only watched the movie once and don't remember much. Strange that he was killed in this one then. 

[Scarlett45]

So as much as I would’ve loved for Nella to get her revenge on Malcolm, I’m glad she got the hell up out of there and moved in with her life. Nella, Celila and their family did well, even after Malcolm’s abuse. 
 

It’s like Olivia just lost her mind. 

[Snow Apple]

19 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

So as much as I would’ve loved for Nella to get her revenge on Malcolm, I’m glad she got the hell up out of there and moved in with her life. Nella, Celila and their family did well, even after Malcolm’s abuse. 
 

It’s like Olivia just lost her mind. 

I guess it's because Nella has her family who love and support her. Even Harry and Joel write them once a week.

Every time Olivia thought she has someone to give her a purpose in life, they leave or betray her. John Amos was the last straw. Especially when she defended him and gave up Nella's friendship for him. Sadly for the four children, she's not about to let anyone else into her heart.

Edited July 31, 2022 by Snow Apple

[nokat]

38 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

But we know that Harry & Joel lived happily ever after!!

I wanted this so much.

[Scarlett45]

11 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

I guess it's because Nella has her family who love and support her. Even Harry and Joel write them once a week.

Every time Olivia thought she has someone to give her a purpose in life, they leave or betray her. John Amos was the last straw. Especially when she defended him and gave up Nella's friendship for him. Sadly for the four children, she's not about to let anyone else into her heart.

Maybe that’s because Olivia made her life about other people rather than herself. No her abusive marriage to Malcolm and losing Joel wasn’t her fault (she did right by Joel*) she didn’t find her own purpose outside of torturing Malcolm. Not that he didn’t deserve it, but that does things to you. Nella even followed her dream and went to NYC to sing. Olivia could’ve found solace in something positive, but maybe it was too late. 
 

*I think Joel didn’t write her as much as Harry wrote his family because she probably got into the fire and brimstone stuff and didn’t write back with anything he wanted to hear. He was grateful she gave him an opportunity to get away, and he wanted her to know he was alive, but he wasn’t motivated to be close with her any more. 

[nokat]

8 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

I guess it's because Nella has her family who love and support her. Even Harry and Joel write them once a week.

This.  Nella had to scar herself to get him away. I was happy to see Joel and Harry get away.

[nokat]

I am just starting this. I'm not your mother.

[nokat]

The best kind of revenge takes time.

[Kiki777]

Hmmmm that last line narrating Corinne’s thoughts after Olivia locks the kids in... are they implying there will be a FITA series from Corinne’s point of view?

[andromeda331]

Damn this was so not Malcolm's episode and I loved it. Beginning with Corrine's awesome insult that ended with "No wonder your mother left" That was awesome Corrine. Olivia causing his accident by sawing the bannister so he would fall. Including her awesome voiceover about old houses and saws. Olivia destroying the swan room as consequence to his actions. The only thing missing was Corrine murdering him.

The first hour of the episode was so good. I'm shocked that Olivia told Corrine and Christopher about Corrine being Alicia's daughter. I honestly was sure where it was going to go with it. Corrine convincing Christopher to leave and going to get money from Malcolm's safe. I figured she would find something but not Garland's will and that he stole Christopher's inheritance. Of course he did. Malcolm finding her and the fight between them. Then with Olivia and Christopher. That was gold. I liked the second Malcolm left the room Olivia knew exactly where he was going. Sure enough off to kill Christopher. 

Oh, Olivia you should have shot Malcolm instead of the ceiling it would have solved all your problems. Corrine came through hitting her father instead. I love Corrine calling Malcolm what he was a theif, a murderer and a rapist. I do really like the scene afterwards Corrine telling Olivia she finally realized Olivia was a victim. Christopher making the deal with Malcolm over money and leaving with Corrine. 

I love Olivia seeing Malcolm with the young girl (Grace I think?) and immediately setting out to kill him. I love Nella knew what she was doing and really only talked her out of using the car because Samuel is the driver and he'd be hang. Olivia listens and decides to go with sawing the bannister. Ending up crippled with Olivia in charge was a good punishment for him. I'm so happy she got a great ending happily living in NYC and singing. Good for her. 

I'm so happy they left Joel alone. He and Harry got their happy ending. He also proved the only smart Foxworth by never going back to that house. 

It fell apart in the second hour. I kind had a feeling it would. There wasn't enough time for the turning Olivia into the religious fanatic in FITA. Although I like Amos being murdered. There was really no reason for it. He doesn't die until If There Be Thorns. I don't know why they killed him off here and it really doesn't do anything. I was also hoping we would see that Amos stole Olivia's inheritance which which would fit with his character of going after the Foxworth money.

I do like Nella pointing out that Olivia really just traded one controlling man for another. That was true and something they really could ran with how Amos ended up getting so much power. It's really common for abuse victims to do that. The fact he was her cousin and religious would make it easier for her to not see him as controlling. I wish they just skipped the whole murdering Amos for being Corrine back and showing things from Olivia's and Corrine's point of view from Flowers in the Attic. That would have been much better. 

Malcolm insisting he didn't have a daughter is not something he would do. After the years passed he really wanted to see Corrine again.  He'd been happy she came back. It would have been great to see why he added to his will about her never having kids. Was it because he found out about the kids? Pay back for running off with Christopher? Because he's an asshole?

I knew it wouldn't happened but I wished we learned more about the first Corrine and what happened there. 

[psychoticstate]

Maybe an UO but this was my least favorite episode out of the series.  

With Malcolm basically out of the action for the second half, his absence was truly felt.  I think Max Irons did a stunning job throughout.  When he had Christopher up against the wall and was saying he was going to kill him "as I did your father" (also his own father), I felt insanely anxious, even though I knew that Christopher would survive and he and Corrine would run off together.  Very clever of Christopher to play along with Malcolm, take the money and say he was leaving so that he and Corrine would have money.

Why did the writers make Christopher a doctor?  He was not.  He wasn't able to use his education because he got it as Christopher Foxworth.  In the book, I thought he sold insurance but he was actually in PR.  Not sure why the writers felt they had to make him a doctor since it had zip to do with what transpired.  

Paul Wesley did a great job as the creepy John Amos.  He obviously had a case of the feels for Olivia but I didn't see his demise coming.  In the book, he lusted after Corrine but they couldn't very well do that since JA didn't return here until after Corrine left.   If JA had returned while Corrine was still there, he likely would have known that Olivia arranged for Malcolm's accident and certainly could have lorded that over her.  

My biggest problem with this part was Olivia.  WTH?  I guess I just don't feel there was enough substance for why she became obsessively religious.  The time was there -- in fact, it nearly dragged for me -- but it just didn't gel for me.  Nella put it best when she pointed out that Olivia went from being controlled by one man (Malcolm) to another (JA).  It didn't make sense that she would be such close friends with Nella, to the point of instructing Nella to call her Olivia, and then after JA being in the house (even for 8 years) she would then see Nella as inferior to her and want to be called Mrs. Foxworth.   Olivia had been married to Malcolm for more than 30 years by then, I would assume, and he hadn't been able to break her and really, truly fundamentally change her so how did JA manage to do it?   Maybe I could see the hardcore, obsessive turn to religion if it had happened immediately after she found out about Corrine and Christopher and they ran off.  Especially if JA had been there and basically blamed Olivia for it all happening.  Maybe.  Or maybe if, like the book, Olivia had received notice that Joel was presumed dead.  At that point, she would have nothing -- all of her children gone -- except a terrible marriage to a monster.  

I also don't think we were given enough of a backstory to explain locking Corrine's children up in the attic.  Again, if JA were there, I could see him making the suggestion, to lock them away, to prevent their evil from spreading, to get them to turn to God for forgiveness, etc.   But why would Olivia do this?  Was it her way to punish Corrine?  

I wish we either had one more part or certain things had been eliminated from this portion so that we could see Corrine seeing Malcolm again and trying to win him over and realizing that she was going to have to choose between her children and the inheritance.   I just felt seeing that box of rat poison and then hearing Corrine say that the children were only going to be locked up one night, at least that's what she told herself, wasn't enough.  

[nokat]

3 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I love Nella knew what she was doing and really only talked her out of using the car because Samuel is the driver and he'd be hang. Olivia listens and decides to go with sawing the bannister. Ending up crippled with Olivia in charge was a good punishment for him

Yes, Nella knew who the real victim would be with the car tampering. I was surprised Malcolm was still able to attack Olivia in the state he was in.

I loved Olivia pushing the saw into the fire with her foot. Totally an accident.

Edited July 31, 2022 by nokat

[Snow Apple]

41 minutes ago, psychoticstate said:

I also don't think we were given enough of a backstory to explain locking Corrine's children up in the attic.  Again, if JA were there, I could see him making the suggestion, to lock them away, to prevent their evil from spreading, to get them to turn to God for forgiveness, etc.   But why would Olivia do this?  Was it her way to punish Corrine?  
 

I agree. Olivia's thought process for locking up the children made sense in the book, but it doesn't make sense in the movie. She was excited that Corrine was finally coming home to her until John Amos planted thoughts into her head. And when John Amos attacked her and she killed him, it should have made her realize everything he said was garbage and made her question his view of God. The Olivia we came to know may have then explored Nella's version of God. Also, I can see Movie Olivia sticking it to Malcolm by welcoming Corrine and the children.

7 hours ago, Kiki777 said:

Hmmmm that last line narrating Corinne’s thoughts after Olivia locks the kids in... are they implying there will be a FITA series from Corinne’s point of view?

I hope so. According to the movies, how did Malcolm go from "I don't have a daughter" to presenting Corrine with a necklace at the Christmas party in FITA? That was in the movie right? It's been a while.

[Scarlett45]

59 minutes ago, psychoticstate said:

I also don't think we were given enough of a backstory to explain locking Corrine's children up in the attic.  Again, if JA were there, I could see him making the suggestion, to lock them away, to prevent their evil from spreading, to get them to turn to God for forgiveness, etc.   But why would Olivia do this?  Was it her way to punish Corrine?

Yes!!! Given that she just murdered her creepy ass cousin who tried to rape her, I’d think she would turn away from the things he advocated for. When he tried to kiss her in the chapel she yelled at him for judging Corinne, when he was just as bad. 

1 hour ago, psychoticstate said:

Why did the writers make Christopher a doctor?  He was not.  He wasn't able to use his education because he got it as Christopher Foxworth.  In the book, I thought he sold insurance but he was actually in PR.  Not sure why the writers felt they had to make him a doctor since it had zip to do with what transpired.  

In the books the fact that Christopher gave up his education to be with Corinne was evidence that he made sacrifices too, and truly loved her. We lose that significance in having him finish medical school. 

[psychoticstate]

20 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Yes!!! Given that she just murdered her creepy ass cousin who tried to rape her, I’d think she would turn away from the things he advocated for. When he tried to kiss her in the chapel she yelled at him for judging Corinne, when he was just as bad. 

In the books the fact that Christopher gave up his education to be with Corinne was evidence that he made sacrifices too, and truly loved her. We lose that significance in having him finish medical school. 

Exactly.  She should have realized that JA's version of God and religion was complete b.s. after he did that.  

Regarding Christopher, I really wish they had cut away from some of the more "draggier" moments (like Olivia burning all the furnishings - WTH?) and shown how he and Corrine got into such financial dire straits.  It could have been something as simple as Christopher coming home from work and discovering that Corrine had new furniture delivered or her asking him about purchasing new things and he deciding that okay, he'll have plenty of time to pay them off.  

If you haven't read the books, all you get is the scene of movers taking things and then Corrine supposedly in a crappy part of town -- the last part of which did not happen in the books.  I think it would have gone much further to have at least one scene as I mentioned above and then maybe a scene of Corrine going through bills after Christopher's death and realizing that they didn't own anything at all.   Based on this series, they would have been living in that house for at least 13 years (they moved in when Chris was a baby).  Surely they would have some equity in it - unless the house had a second mortgage and/or any equity was taken to pay off other debts. 

And from what we know of Corrine, at least book Corrine, she didn't have to hit rock bottom (i.e., moving into a bad, rundown part of town) before reaching out to Olivia.  She needed someone to take care of her and as soon as Christopher was gone, she wouldn't have known what to do.   Unless of course Lifetime is going to do another limited series on FITA and we see a very different side to Corrine.

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, psychoticstate said:

Regarding Christopher, I really wish they had cut away from some of the more "draggier" moments (like Olivia burning all the furnishings - WTH?) and shown how he and Corrine got into such financial dire straits.  It could have been something as simple as Christopher coming home from work and discovering that Corrine had new furniture delivered or her asking him about purchasing new things and he deciding that okay, he'll have plenty of time to pay them off.

I wanted to touch on this as well- we didn’t get much of Corinne and Christopher’s life together. 
 

Also- if Corinne still had love and affection for Olivia (which it certainly looked like) but refused to come home while Malcolm was alive, why didn’t Olivia write to her? Was she just upset and shocked about the incest (which most certainly could be shocking, but after living with creepy murdering rapist ass Malcolm all those years, she shouldn’t have been phased.)

While I am glad Harry and Joel lived happily ever after, I do wish we had gotten ONE scene of them packing up to take a trip (living in NYC or something) with Joel getting a letter from Corinne telling him what happened, that she was okay, with Christopher and was changing her name. I would’ve loved to have seen Joel’s reaction “holy shit” type thing. 
 

I loved that Nella kept her kindness but wasn’t a push over. She wasn’t going to let that place poison her or let Olivia treat her like crap. 

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, psychoticstate said:

Unless of course Lifetime is going to do another limited series on FITA and we see a very different side to Corrine.

In reboot land 8yrs is long ago these days, and if Lifetime wanted to do a FITA from Corinne’s point of view (with some of these actors) it could be amazing. You wouldn’t need that many scenes of the children (I know it takes longer to film stuff with minors), and it could end with Corinne coming back from a trip with Bart and realizing the children were missing, with a line of “my sins will come back to me, I am sure of it. Guess I am my father’s daughter after all.”

[JAYJAY1979]

I think after what happened with JA, it makes sense  Olivia would snap.  She lost the last person she trusted, plus maybe she viewed his sinful thoughts of her as sin..and it made her double down on Chris Jr and Cathy.

I've always wished we had a book detailing the Chris Sr and Corrine years during that 15 year period before he passed.  I always figured he loved her, but also knew who she was...and spent 5 days in a traveling job to get space. 

And while Corrine was doing the homemaker thing, what was she really thinking.  Was she happy, did she resent her kids, did she secretly regret giving up the Foxworth money..etc.

[Wizardpatch]

I feel like making Joel "gay and traveling" instead of "presumed dead in a plane crash" kind of lessens the sorrow that Olivia is supposed to be feeling. What is stopping her from telling her son that he is free to come back and visit because Malcolm can't bother him? Same with her daughter before Olivia gets all religious.

Also, its pretty anachronistic for Harry's family to be so happy and uncaring about his relationship.

[Snow Apple]

I forgot to add in my previous posts that this team even did a good job casting the children. Cathy and Chris is more how I imagined them at 12 and 14 respectively, not just in age but also in looks. I totally understand casting older teens/young adults for FITA, but this was really good. 

We also get a look at Cathy and Chris's personalities already for such a short scene.  Chris was polite by thanking Olivia for letting them stay, and later by moving himself and Cory to the other bed when Olivia expressed her displeasure. Cathy was already demanding answers, LOL. The only disappointment was Olivia didn't see them holding hands and smiling at each other.

Edited July 31, 2022 by Snow Apple

[psychoticstate]

6 minutes ago, Wizardpatch said:

I feel like making Joel "gay and traveling" instead of "presumed dead in a plane crash" kind of lessens the sorrow that Olivia is supposed to be feeling. What is stopping her from telling her son that he is free to come back and visit because Malcolm can't bother him? Same with her daughter before Olivia gets all religious.

Excellent point.  

Additionally, in the book series, Corrine inherits when Malcolm dies and then when Olivia dies (I think -- please correct me if I'm wrong -- that Olivia leaves JA something in the book.)  Anyhow, if Joel is still alive, why wouldn't she leave him something?  Unless of course JA has warped her so much that she now believes that Joel's relationship with Harry goes against God and is punishing him.  

I have to say as much as I liked the character of Olivia in the first three parts, I didn't care for her in the fourth.  And as much as I thoroughly disliked Corrine in the third part (and possibly the second?) I didn't see her as such a horrible person once she was with Christopher.  

Anyhow, it would be great for Lifetime to show us FITA from Olivia's POV and Corrine's POV.  

[Scarlett45]

20 minutes ago, Wizardpatch said:

Also, its pretty anachronistic for Harry's family to be so happy and uncaring about his relationship.

There were always people/families who didn’t take the stance as the wider culture did on certain issues. That were more open minded compared to the wider culture. Corinne didn’t flip out when she realized Harry and Joel were together, or condemn him to that awful place. I could see how Harry’s family could be supportive too. 
 

I don’t find it odd that Harry’s family accepted him as gay and wanted to see him happy. There were families of all ethnic groups and socioeconomic standings that accepted their gay family members- they may have been a minority, but they existed. They probably kept more quiet about it because there were serious economic and criminal consequences to being “out” at this time, but Harry was safe away from Foxworth Hall, so he and Joel’s relationship didn’t have any negative social consequences to the family in their small community. 

 

9 minutes ago, psychoticstate said:

I have to say as much as I liked the character of Olivia in the first three parts, I didn't care for her in the fourth.  And as much as I thoroughly disliked Corrine in the third part (and possibly the second?) I didn't see her as such a horrible person once she was with Christopher.  

I think Christopher brought out the good in Corinne, but the only “awful” thing I saw her do in the 2nd movie was poison Malcolm so she could go to a party. And with Mal dying mistaking the poison for pot, I could only imagine the guilt and sorrow she felt over that. She loved her brother. 
 

I didn’t dislike her in the 3rd movie- I thought she was pretty savvy to figure out what happened to Joel and help him. I can’t recall her doing anything bad in that one. Yes she manipulated Malcolm for shopping money and to go to town with Joel, but in the grand scheme of things I wasn’t phased. I’d want to go shopping and get out of that damn house TOO. 

[Scarlett45]

3 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

Anyhow, if Joel is still alive, why wouldn't she leave him something?  Unless of course JA has warped her so much that she now believes that Joel's relationship with Harry goes against God and is punishing him.  

I also think it could be that, and Olivia was angry and jealous that Joel actually GOT AWAY. I think this Olivia is a truly complex character (and very human) because while we sympathize with her and acknowledge that the abuse isn’t her fault, when she does get power and control she’s so damaged and warped she’s not capable of having healthy relationships any more (like what happened with Nella). Olivia may have been happy Joel got away on one hand but felt abandoned by him at the same time. She never made an effort to travel to visit him- she certainly had the funds and the freedom after Malcolm was injured. 

[TattleTeeny]

Not done watching yet, but what the hell is happening when Christopher shows Corinne the new house? His voice says, “I wanted to surprise you, Christopher.” What? Were we supposed to have seen a note or something? Did the actor mean to say “Corinne”? But even if one those is the case, the inflection is weird.

[Scarlett45]

Just now, TattleTeeny said:

Not done watching yet, but what the hell is happening when Christopher shows Corinne the new house? His voice says, “I wanted to surprise you, Christopher.” What? Were we supposed to have seen a note or something? Did the actor mean to say “Corinne”? But even if one those is the case, the inflection is weird.

He’s talking to baby Christopher in the stroller. It’s a clue they have a child. 

[psychoticstate]

Another thing I thought of too is that in the books, even though Malcolm was ill and wheelchair-bound, I don't recall if he was incapable of speech and very limited with communication.  I was always under the impression (and supported by his journal in ITBT) that Malcolm was a fundamentalist, that he was the one speaking of devil's spawn, etc.   Honestly, it sounds more like Olivia.   And in the books, it was Malcolm's decision to have Corrine stripped and whipped in front of him, a whip for each year of her life and separate whips for each year she spent "in sin" with Christopher.   So unless Malcolm wrote some kind of direction on paper, again, it sounds like that would be Olivia's decision -- which is at odds with her happiness over Corrine returning home.  So unless JA's assault and her killing of him really twisted her (which the episode did not truly show), there is no excuse for why she would do this.  Malcolm, yes.  But Olivia, no.  

[TattleTeeny]

Ahhhhh, OK, TY! Haha, the baby don’t care! Still, the inflection is wacky; maybe there’s an “and” after “Corinne” that he said too fast/quietly.

ETA: No “and,” just odd inflection. 

Also, I am not a “doilies on the back of the sofa” kind of girl, but I love that blue sitting room.

Edited July 31, 2022 by TattleTeeny

[psychoticstate]

10 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I also think it could be that, and Olivia was angry and jealous that Joel actually GOT AWAY. I think this Olivia is a truly complex character (and very human) because while we sympathize with her and acknowledge that the abuse isn’t her fault, when she does get power and control she’s so damaged and warped she’s not capable of having healthy relationships any more (like what happened with Nella). Olivia may have been happy Joel got away on one hand but felt abandoned by him at the same time. She never made and effort to travel to visit him- she certainly had the funds and the freedom after Malcolm was injured. 

Your post made me think too -- when Olivia was climbing the stairs just before discovering Corrine and Christopher, she said (paraphrasing) she had sacrificed everything so that her children could have the type of life she did not, could not have.   Although she loved Corrine, maybe deep down she was resentful because despite making sacrifices for her, Corrine lied to her and chose to run off with a man she knew was her half-brother.  

I know it was portrayed differently here but I'm fairly certain in the book, it was Olivia's decision to allow Christopher to come stay at FH, not Malcolm's.  That's why Malcolm could blame Olivia for what eventually transpired between Christopher and Corrine and why Olivia likely felt a lot of guilt and anger over it.  

Maybe Olivia had some sort of mini-breakdown, what with the religious overload, then finding out what a true creep JA was -- and she had invited him in her home.  Maybe she went back and attributed it all to starting when Corrine and Christopher ran away.  

Anyhow, another limited series might answer the questions! 

8 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

Also, I am not a “doilies on the back of the sofa” kind of girl, but I love that blue sitting room.

Me too.  It was stunning. 

Maybe I missed it but after Malcolm's "accident," did Olivia freshen the place up?  It certainly looked like it to me. (At least until under JA's warping, she then burned everything.)