RW: Seattle (1998)

[Stinger97]

The Real World: Seattle is the seventh season of MTV's reality television series The Real World, which focuses on a group of diverse strangers living together for several months in a different city each season, as cameras follow their lives and interpersonal relationships. It is the third season of The Real World to be filmed in the Pacific States region, specifically in Washington and is also the first season to be filmed in the Pacific Northwest.

 

 

[JerseyGirl]

http://www.seattlepi.com/entertainment/tv/article/The-Real-World-Seattle-Where-are-they-now-5746974.php#photo-6845663

 

Where are they now, you ask?

[shantown]

http://www.seattlepi.com/entertainment/tv/article/The-Real-World-Seattle-Where-are-they-now-5746974.php#photo-6845663

 

Where are they now, you ask?

Wow, they didn't put much effort into that, did they? Thanks for sharing though!

[moonchild81]

i wish lindsey , janet and rebecca would come out of hiding / i follow nate on instagram

[Teriyaki Terror]

On 6/24/2020 at 10:10 AM, moonchild81 said:

i wish lindsey , janet and rebecca would come out of hiding / i follow nate on instagram

What's his Instagram?

[moonchild81]

https://www.instagram.com/nathanielwblackburn/

[snarts]

Rebecca: https://www.instagram.com/rebeleighd/

Janet: https://www.linkedin.com/in/janetchoi1/

David: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-m-burns-/

Lindsay was a daytime reporter in Tampa back around 2012-13. No ides where she is now but her married name at the time was McDonald.

 

[ljenkins782]

With the airing of the first episode of RWNY1 reunion, I'm reflecting on which other seasons might be feasible/interesting and Seattle came to mind.

I'm sure it would never happen and may not even be fair to broach the topic of having Irene and Stephen back in the same space, but it would be interesting to see the reflection on that time now that 2 decades have passed.

I saw a stand up bit from Irene where she talks about it and it was thought-provoking. On the one hand, she did something really terrible (outing someone who was not ready to confront his sexuality and doing it on national television), but her points about the actions of production that allowed Stephen to physically assault her were also valid. 

Also, their control over how she was portrayed certainly had an impact on how the incident itself is viewed. They built this narrative of Irene slowly going crazy, which made it very difficult to take seriously her stories about production's manipulations that we all now know are a real thing.

With her feelings about reality TV, I doubt she'd come back and I'm not sure Stephen would want to relive this experience either, but I'd settle for the rest of the house coming together, Seattle David is always entertaining and I'd like to see where Lindsay and Janet wound up.

[Teriyaki Terror]

On 3/5/2021 at 12:06 PM, ljenkins782 said:

With the airing of the first episode of RWNY1 reunion, I'm reflecting on which other seasons might be feasible/interesting and Seattle came to mind.

I'm sure it would never happen and may not even be fair to broach the topic of having Irene and Stephen back in the same space, but it would be interesting to see the reflection on that time now that 2 decades have passed.

I saw a stand up bit from Irene where she talks about it and it was thought-provoking. On the one hand, she did something really terrible (outing someone who was not ready to confront his sexuality and doing it on national television), but her points about the actions of production that allowed Stephen to physically assault her were also valid. 

Also, their control over how she was portrayed certainly had an impact on how the incident itself is viewed. They built this narrative of Irene slowly going crazy, which made it very difficult to take seriously her stories about production's manipulations that we all now know are a real thing.

With her feelings about reality TV, I doubt she'd come back and I'm not sure Stephen would want to relive this experience either, but I'd settle for the rest of the house coming together, Seattle David is always entertaining and I'd like to see where Lindsay and Janet wound up.

I want to know more details of David and the MTV producer's relationship? Do they still keep in touch?

[choclatechip45]

On 3/5/2021 at 1:06 PM, ljenkins782 said:

With the airing of the first episode of RWNY1 reunion, I'm reflecting on which other seasons might be feasible/interesting and Seattle came to mind.

I'm sure it would never happen and may not even be fair to broach the topic of having Irene and Stephen back in the same space, but it would be interesting to see the reflection on that time now that 2 decades have passed.

I saw a stand up bit from Irene where she talks about it and it was thought-provoking. On the one hand, she did something really terrible (outing someone who was not ready to confront his sexuality and doing it on national television), but her points about the actions of production that allowed Stephen to physically assault her were also valid. 

Also, their control over how she was portrayed certainly had an impact on how the incident itself is viewed. They built this narrative of Irene slowly going crazy, which made it very difficult to take seriously her stories about production's manipulations that we all now know are a real thing.

With her feelings about reality TV, I doubt she'd come back and I'm not sure Stephen would want to relive this experience either, but I'd settle for the rest of the house coming together, Seattle David is always entertaining and I'd like to see where Lindsay and Janet wound up.

To Irene's credit she did an essay for Vulture https://www.vulture.com/2013/11/real-world-seattle-irene-slap-her-story.html and said she is not proud of outing Stephen and it is one of the meanest things she has ever done. 

 

On 5/28/2021 at 10:05 PM, Teriyaki Terror said:

I want to know more details of David and the MTV producer's relationship? Do they still keep in touch?

David gave an interview with Jezebel where he talks about his relationship with Kira. 

 

Someone uploaded Seattle to YouTube, I am watching it for the first I had only seen clips I understand now why this season is so popular. I really like it so far. The cast had great chemistry. I really like the Janet/Lindsay friendship.

[Bastet]

I've just started in on this as my latest re-watch, and, while I have a very high tolerance for alcohol, I would be drunk within two episodes if I made a drinking game out of Lindsay tousling her hair.

Is this the first time the roommates were all students?  They all go to good schools, too.

Watching the casting special, I wonder if MTV really considered casting Nathan's girlfriend with him, before opting for Nathan and David as the better "already know each other coming in" twist (with his relationship with Stephanie providing plenty of drama just over the phone).

I know watching this is just going to make me angry on Irene's behalf all over again, but I'm doing it.

Edited June 6, 2021 by Bastet

[Teriyaki Terror]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

I've just started in on this as my latest re-watch, and, while I have a very high tolerance for alcohol, I would be drunk within two episodes if I made a drinking game out of Lindsay tousling her hair.

Is this the first time the roommates were all students?  They all go to good schools, too.

Watching the casting special, I wonder if MTV really considered casting Nathan's girlfriend with him, before opting for Nathan and David as the better "already know each other coming in" twist (with his relationship with Stephanie providing plenty of drama just over the phone).

I know watching this is just going to make me angry on Irene's behalf all over again, but I'm doing it.

I visited Seattle last year and I HAD to take a photo of the pier and where the "slap heard around the world" happened. 

On 6/1/2021 at 2:48 PM, choclatechip45 said:

To Irene's credit she did an essay for Vulture https://www.vulture.com/2013/11/real-world-seattle-irene-slap-her-story.html and said she is not proud of outing Stephen and it is one of the meanest things she has ever done. 

 

David gave an interview with Jezebel where he talks about his relationship with Kira. 

 

Someone uploaded Seattle to YouTube, I am watching it for the first I had only seen clips I understand now why this season is so popular. I really like it so far. The cast had great chemistry. I really like the Janet/Lindsay friendship.

Do you have a link to the interview?

[choclatechip45]

17 minutes ago, Teriyaki Terror said:

I visited Seattle last year and I HAD to take a photo of the pier and where the "slap heard around the world" happened. 

Do you have a link to the interview?

Here you go it was done June of 2019.

https://jezebel.com/i-interviewed-david-burns-from-the-real-world-seattle-1835661014

[Teriyaki Terror]

19 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

Here you go it was done June of 2019.

https://jezebel.com/i-interviewed-david-burns-from-the-real-world-seattle-1835661014

Thank you so much! It was a good read.

[Glade]

On 6/6/2021 at 1:57 PM, choclatechip45 said:

Here you go it was done June of 2019.

https://jezebel.com/i-interviewed-david-burns-from-the-real-world-seattle-1835661014

Reading this just reminds me of how much I disliked this season/everyone on it.  The way David still frames the slap without any mention of what it meant for a gay black man to be outed on national television and how inappropriate it would be for a straight white man to go beat him up for the way he responded to it just reminds me that when they all sat down to watch the tape of Irene's departure in order to decide to kick Stephen out or not, David laughed when he Irene said 'you're a homosexual Stephen.'  I'm sure it was really hard for Stephen rooming with these aggressive hyper-macho military guys who clearly didn't have an ounce of sensitivity towards gay issues.  I recall at that one reunion a gray-haired Nathan even made fresh threats to beat Stephen up because he didn't sound apologetic enough when talking about what happened.   That said I found it physically painful to watch Stephen try to butch it up after he was outed and even get a fake girlfriend for the cameras, and hitting Irene and stealing her stuffed animal also really sucked.  

[choclatechip45]

2 hours ago, Glade said:

Reading this just reminds me of how much I disliked this season/everyone on it.  The way David still frames the slap without any mention of what it meant for a gay black man to be outed on national television and how inappropriate it would be for a straight white man to go beat him up for the way he responded to it just reminds me that when they all sat down to watch the tape of Irene's departure in order to decide to kick Stephen out or not, David laughed when he Irene said 'you're a homosexual Stephen.'  I'm sure it was really hard for Stephen rooming with these aggressive hyper-macho military guys who clearly didn't have an ounce of sensitivity towards gay issues.  I recall at that one reunion a gray-haired Nathan even made fresh threats to beat Stephen up because he didn't sound apologetic enough when talking about what happened.   That said I found it physically painful to watch Stephen try to butch it up after he was outed and even get a fake girlfriend for the cameras, and hitting Irene and stealing her stuffed animal also really sucked.  

I remember Nathan was annoyed at the reunion at Stephen because Stephen kept saying him and Irene were friends and they had made up which is not true at all. 

[Glade]

16 hours ago, choclatechip45 said:

I remember Nathan was annoyed at the reunion at Stephen because Stephen kept saying him and Irene were friends and they had made up which is not true at all. 

Oh okay,  either way though Nathan threatening to assault Stephen for saying something that annoyed him is still shit. 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Glade

[choclatechip45]

1 hour ago, Glade said:

Oh okay,  either way though Nathan threatening to assault Stephen for saying something that annoyed him is still shit. 

I found the clip. It was CT who threatened Stephen 

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by choclatechip45

[Glade]

45 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

I found the clip. It was CT who threatened Stephen 

 

Yes, Nathan did physically threaten him there, and not for the first time, he did it while they were room-mates, pre-Irene as well.  Macho straight white guys who are really vocal about never hitting women and being against domestic violence but are very enthusiastic about beating up gay black men who they live with as if that isn't also domestic violence.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Glade

[Bastet]

On 6/6/2021 at 4:57 PM, choclatechip45 said:

https://jezebel.com/i-interviewed-david-burns-from-the-real-world-seattle-1835661014

I got distracted away from my re-watch of this season, and will get back to it later, but I read this interview in the meantime.  David's description of himself cracked me up:

Quote

They saw a kid with two different color eyes from a housing project in inner-city Boston that’s going to school at an old military institution on a tennis scholarship and he sounds like a fucking Irish gangster. You gotta cast him. It was a no-brainer for them.

 

[choclatechip45]

3 hours ago, Glade said:

Yes, Nathan did physically threaten him there, and not for the first time, he did it while they were room-mates, pre-Irene as well.  Macho straight white guys who are really vocal about never hitting women and being against domestic violence but are very enthusiastic about beating up gay black men who they live with as if that isn't also domestic violence.

Yeah I don't see Nathan threatening him there. 

[Bastet]

I picked back up with my re-watch, but now I'm getting close to the totally manipulative presentation of Irene's departure and the physical assault MTV finds appropriate to air again and again and even give a cutesy name to, and I have to get myself in the right frame of mind to deal with it.

I wonder how old Stephen was when he finally learned (if he ever did) how to rein in his emotions and avoid inappropriate displays of them.  Hopefully finally coming out released some of that anger swirling around inside him and he deals with things better.  Pouting in front of his boss when he didn't get one of the DJ gigs was one thing, but the way he behaved in Nepal at the sherpa's house was appalling.  This man has brought them into his home to share a traditional meal with his family, and Stephen chooses to try to pick a fight with Janet.  Over how much make-up she wears of all things. 

I think Nepal is the RW trip I would have most loved to go on, even if I had to do it as an REI commercial.  

I wonder if Janet and Lindsay stayed friends; they clicked so quickly and thoroughly, it was lovely.

I find myself evaluating Lindsay more thoroughly this time around.  It was easy to get distracted by her hair habit and her performance as the "cool girl" to guys, and that's all still there but there's also an ambitious, inquisitive young woman still reeling from the death of her father and struggling to let down the emotional wall she'd had to build in the aftermath of that. 

I remember there's an episode in which she finds out her friend died via suicide, and one of the roommates, maybe even Janet, tries to hug her, and she just physically cannot bear it in that moment.  I relate to that.

[Bastet]

I wonder if any of the other roommates ever said, even to themselves, "Oh, Irene was right about how we were being manipulated and pitted against each other; sorry I called her a paranoid head case for it."

David said, of the show in general, in the Jezebel interview linked upthread, "I learned ... three or four months in: If they were asking specific questions, they must be building a story in this lens. ... I knew that they had a storyboard and came to that realization real quick that they’ve got a job to do, they’ve got money to make, and drama sells. Whatever little I’ve seen of the episodes, I cringe. I’m like, 'Oh my god, they twisted it in that way?'"

I finished the season, and I'm so disgusted with the producers.  I actually don't mind the roommates deciding Stephen could stay because the anger management therapy he so clearly needs would be mandated - I do mind them being so dismissive of what he did to Irene based on not hitting her harder (the fuck?), and saying she knew what she was in for provoking him like that - but it should never have been put on them to decide in the first place.

It was nice to see Stephen indeed seem to benefit from therapy (which he would never have sought on on his own, since his mom had taught him it's bad).  But, while Irene admitted in Vulture that outing him was one of the worst things she's ever done, I can't find anything where Stephen acknowledged how horrible his actions were.  He walked all the way down that pier and out to the car that was already in motion, tapped on it to get the driver to stop, opened the door, smacked her in the face, and then came back gloating about it and calling her a bitch for the umpteenth time.

The producers can also go fuck themselves with having the remaining roomies go learn about Lyme disease and putting that "for more information" card up after the episode.  Assholes. 

[Teriyaki Terror]

On 9/6/2021 at 4:12 PM, Bastet said:

I wonder if any of the other roommates ever said, even to themselves, "Oh, Irene was right about how we were being manipulated and pitted against each other; sorry I called her a paranoid head case for it."

David said, of the show in general, in the Jezebel interview linked upthread, "I learned ... three or four months in: If they were asking specific questions, they must be building a story in this lens. ... I knew that they had a storyboard and came to that realization real quick that they’ve got a job to do, they’ve got money to make, and drama sells. Whatever little I’ve seen of the episodes, I cringe. I’m like, 'Oh my god, they twisted it in that way?'"

I finished the season, and I'm so disgusted with the producers.  I actually don't mind the roommates deciding Stephen could stay because the anger management therapy he so clearly needs would be mandated - I do mind them being so dismissive of what he did to Irene based on not hitting her harder (the fuck?), and saying she knew what she was in for provoking him like that - but it should never have been put on them to decide in the first place.

It was nice to see Stephen indeed seem to benefit from therapy (which he would never have sought on on his own, since his mom had taught him it's bad).  But, while Irene admitted in Vulture that outing him was one of the worst things she's ever done, I can't find anything where Stephen acknowledged how horrible his actions were.  He walked all the way down that pier and out to the car that was already in motion, tapped on it to get the driver to stop, opened the door, smacked her in the face, and then came back gloating about it and calling her a bitch for the umpteenth time.

The producers can also go fuck themselves with having the remaining roomies go learn about Lyme disease and putting that "for more information" card up after the episode.  Assholes. 

 

Here is a link to a podcast Nathan did. He speaks on the Stephen and Irene situation and what he would have done differently. 

 

[Bastet]

Thank you; I don't want to listen to a 48-minute podcast about Nathan, but it's good to know it's out there should that mood change.

[Asp Burger]

I read on a gossip board that this season was high on the get list for a Homecoming series on Paramount+, but they had a few cast refusals (surprisingly, Irene was not one of the refusals) and no one could even find Lindsay. I hope she's doing well somewhere.

[choclatechip45]

1 hour ago, Asp Burger said:

I read on a gossip board that this season was high on the get list for a Homecoming series on Paramount+, but they had a few cast refusals (surprisingly, Irene was not one of the refusals) and no one could even find Lindsay. I hope she's doing well somewhere.

Weird. I did a google search and found her. She is married to a venture capitalist  has a son. They sold there house for 2. Something million.

[Hiyo]

Posting this if only for the Davd/Kira in the car scene.

It's killing me! You don't even KNOW!

(Starts at about 13:30)

 

[luckyroll3]

On 4/27/2022 at 2:36 PM, Hiyo said:

Posting this if only for the Davd/Kira in the car scene.

It's killing me! You don't even KNOW!

(Starts at about 13:30)

 

Watching the whole David/Kira saga (KIIIIIRRRAAAAAA!) as a high school senior, I thought they were sooooooo in love. Looking back at it with 40 year old eyes, boy is this dysfunctional and toxic. 

[Asp Burger]

Tonight I watched the one in which Stephen's mom has another child at 43, and Stephen is calling the hospital for updates and being such an asshole to the hospital employee. ("You can't take a message? You can't take a message?!") It's the same episode in which David gets into the bar fight and knocks the guy's teeth out.

It's wild to think that Stephen's new baby sister (whom the mom named Sade Celeste) would be 24 now. This would be her last-chance year to be on The Real World! 

[ljenkins782]

9 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

Tonight I watched the one in which Stephen's mom has another child at 43, and Stephen is calling the hospital for updates and being such an asshole to the hospital employee. ("You can't take a message? You can't take a message?!") It's the same episode in which David gets into the bar fight and knocks the guy's teeth out.

It's wild to think that Stephen's new baby sister (whom the mom named Sade Celeste) would be 24 now. This would be her last-chance year to be on The Real World! 

Stephen is such a complicated character, it was uncomfortable to watch. He's one who probably should have been screened out of the casting process, reality TV was not the best place for him. And of course the slap heard round the world is one of those indelible moments that follows a person through life. The volatility of his emotional state that allowed him to chase down and slap someone is something that should have disqualified him from participating, but I guess it didn't show in his interview process/screening.

He's one of those people that you feel sympathy for and then they turn around and behave like a complete asshole toward you, so there's an eternal struggle. It's interesting that the house chose to let him stay, I think if it were me, I'd want to take the opportunity to get rid of that kind of energy in the house and he didn't really click with anyone.

[choclatechip45]

16 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

Stephen is such a complicated character, it was uncomfortable to watch. He's one who probably should have been screened out of the casting process, reality TV was not the best place for him. And of course the slap heard round the world is one of those indelible moments that follows a person through life. The volatility of his emotional state that allowed him to chase down and slap someone is something that should have disqualified him from participating, but I guess it didn't show in his interview process/screening.

He's one of those people that you feel sympathy for and then they turn around and behave like a complete asshole toward you, so there's an eternal struggle. It's interesting that the house chose to let him stay, I think if it were me, I'd want to take the opportunity to get rid of that kind of energy in the house and he didn't really click with anyone.

I remember when Danny was doing interviews in the summer of 2020 he mentioned that he had to move rooms on Battle of the Seasons because Stephen was making him so uncomfortable. He also did not get along with anyone on that Challenge he did. 

[Asp Burger]

I think I listened to that same Danny interview. He said he woke up and Stephen was at the foot of his bed just staring at him, or something like that? 

I remember that Lindsay and Kelley became Challenge besties. Kelley was in tears when they were eliminating the Lindsay/Stephen team, just because she hated that Lindsay was collateral damage to the unanimous hatred of Stephen. Kelley was the new Janet.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Asp Burger

[ljenkins782]

4 minutes ago, Asp Burger said:

I think I listened to that same Danny interview. He said he woke up and Stephen was at the food of his bed just staring at him, or something like that? 

I remember that Lindsay and Kelley became Challenge besties. Kelley was in tears when they were eliminating the Lindsay/Stephen team, just because she hated that Lindsay was collateral damage to the unanimous hatred of Stephen. Kelley was the new Janet.

LOL, Lindsay definitely has a type! A girl who's equally attractive, but slightly less outgoing and more controlled. I remember thinking that if the roles had been reversed, Lindsay would've been sad to see Kelley go, but still would've voted for her if that's how the game went, I'm not sure she needed Kelley as much as Kelley needed her.

Quote

I remember when Danny was doing interviews in the summer of 2020 he mentioned that he had to move rooms on Battle of the Seasons because Stephen was making him so uncomfortable. He also did not get along with anyone on that Challenge he did. 

Stephen vs Coral were some epic battles, "my mom's a strong black woman, not like you." "I don't know your mom, Stephen." LOL

 And yeah, Stephen alienated every single person there and was doing some weird shit on camera, I have no trouble believing he was doing weird shit behind the scenes too. 

Too bad it wasn't David, he was always good TV and he did well on the Challenges he did (well, when he tried, anyway). Lindsay with David could've made it to the end since Stephen was literally the only reason she got booted.

[choclatechip45]

18 minutes ago, Asp Burger said:

I think I listened to that same Danny interview. He said he woke up and Stephen was at the food of his bed just staring at him, or something like that? 

I remember that Lindsay and Kelley became Challenge besties. Kelley was in tears when they were eliminating the Lindsay/Stephen team, just because she hated that Lindsay was collateral damage to the unanimous hatred of Stephen. Kelley was the new Janet.

Yes that was the interview! I think he kept staring at him while he was sleeping and then got super close to his bed.

I'm so curious if Janet/Lindsay keep in touch. 

3 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

LOL, Lindsay definitely has a type! A girl who's equally attractive, but slightly less outgoing and more controlled. I remember thinking that if the roles had been reversed, Lindsay would've been sad to see Kelley go, but still would've voted for her if that's how the game went, I'm not sure she needed Kelley as much as Kelley needed her.

Stephen vs Coral were some epic battles, "my mom's a strong black woman, not like you." "I don't know your mom, Stephen." LOL

 And yeah, Stephen alienated every single person there and was doing some weird shit on camera, I have no trouble believing he was doing weird shit behind the scenes too. 

Too bad it wasn't David, he was always good TV and he did well on the Challenges he did (well, when he tried, anyway). Lindsay with David could've made it to the end since Stephen was literally the only reason she got booted.

David kind of sucked in later years, but Nathan would have been a solid partner. He was super competitive. I remember he was the only guy on The Real World team who cared about winning in the first Real World vs Road Rules challenge. He also was super salty when Coral had her allergic reaction. I remember him going off on Alton for being the deciding vote for Theo to go in the Gauntlet over Coral.  

[ljenkins782]

4 hours ago, choclatechip45 said:

Yes that was the interview! I think he kept staring at him while he was sleeping and then got super close to his bed.

I'm so curious if Janet/Lindsay keep in touch. 

David kind of sucked in later years, but Nathan would have been a solid partner. He was super competitive. I remember he was the only guy on The Real World team who cared about winning in the first Real World vs Road Rules challenge. He also was super salty when Coral had her allergic reaction. I remember him going off on Alton for being the deciding vote for Theo to go in the Gauntlet over Coral.  

Nathan looked super sickly for awhile there, he was skinny in a way that didn't look like it was intentional. 

I forgot that he was there for the alleged spider bite, but frankly, Alton deserved to get blowback for that dumbass choice. Whether there really was a life-threatening spider bite allergy or not has always been a bit murky, but it's crystal clear that DD breast-having, smoker Coral wasn't the best choice to run that final. She got an inflated rep for lucking into the win on Battle of the Seasons, but Mike did the bust of the physical stuff. Theo over Coral was a no-brainer, that tiny group of fit guys would have run that final a million times faster than the giant RR group.

As for David, his challenge pinnacle was probably Challenge 2000, he still had his VMI body and he was a fun mix of entertainment and drama.

[Bastet]

5 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

It's interesting that the house chose to let him stay,

Maybe they thought since letting him stay would mean he'd be required to undergo the anger management therapy he so desperately needed - and would never seek on his own, since his mom had indoctrinated him that therapy was bad - that was the best call to make. 

That's giving them a big benefit of the doubt; they were shitty, talking about how he didn't hit her all that hard and she should have known what she was in for, provoking him like that.  But I'll go ahead and leave them at that, because the bigger issue in this whole thing is the decision never should have been put on them to make.

He fucking hit a housemate.  A housemate who said something horrible, but who was gone.  He didn't hit her in the moment (not that it would have been okay); he chased her down, got the driver to stop the car, opened Irene's door, and smacked her in the face (then laughed about it and repeatedly referred to her by a gender slur).  Producers should have removed him, not put it on the remaining housemates to vote. 

[choclatechip45]

42 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

Nathan looked super sickly for awhile there, he was skinny in a way that didn't look like it was intentional. 

I forgot that he was there for the alleged spider bite, but frankly, Alton deserved to get blowback for that dumbass choice. Whether there really was a life-threatening spider bite allergy or not has always been a bit murky, but it's crystal clear that DD breast-having, smoker Coral wasn't the best choice to run that final. She got an inflated rep for lucking into the win on Battle of the Seasons, but Mike did the bust of the physical stuff. Theo over Coral was a no-brainer, that tiny group of fit guys would have run that final a million times faster than the giant RR group.

As for David, his challenge pinnacle was probably Challenge 2000, he still had his VMI body and he was a fun mix of entertainment and drama.

Nathan has said in recent years he was in the middle of a very bad cocaine addiction when he did The Gauntlet. 

I always thought the spider bite thing was real. I remember Sarah from Road Rules saying that they were all required to submit a list to production before the season what they were allergic too and Coral had put down Mosquitos and Spiders. I just remember I couldn't stand Nathan that season.  I just remember Alton responding back to Nathan that Irulan could have completed that final which always made me laugh for some reason. 

[ljenkins782]

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

Maybe they thought since letting him stay would mean he'd be required to undergo the anger management therapy he so desperately needed - and would never seek on his own, since his mom had indoctrinated him that therapy was bad - that was the best call to make. 

That's giving them a big benefit of the doubt; they were shitty, talking about how he didn't hit her all that hard and she should have known what she was in for, provoking him like that.  But I'll go ahead and leave them at that, because the bigger issue in this whole thing is the decision never should have been put on them to make.

He fucking hit a housemate.  A housemate who said something horrible, but who was gone.  He didn't hit her in the moment (not that it would have been okay); he chased her down, got the driver to stop the car, opened Irene's door, and smacked her in the face (then laughed about it and repeatedly referred to her by a gender slur).  Producers should have removed him, not put it on the remaining housemates to vote. 

Agreed, but these are the same producers who allowed the cameramen to follow Stephen around, watching him reach a boiling point and allowed him to get to the car to slap her, so lord knows they weren't the best judges of anything. 

As for the cast, I think they were mostly coming from a good place in wanting him to get help and also not to get bounced from this experience so few people get, but based on his behavior on the Challenge later, the therapy didn't do too much for him. The editing also made it appear that no one liked Irene by that point and that seemed to play into the choice, but the whole Irene-made-crazy-by-Lyme-Disease storyline seems a bit creatively cobbled when you look back on it with the awareness of how storylines can be created out of whole cloth.

Quote

Nathan has said in recent years he was in the middle of a very bad cocaine addiction when he did The Gauntlet. 

I always thought the spider bite thing was real. I remember Sarah from Road Rules saying that they were all required to submit a list to production before the season what they were allergic too and Coral had put down Mosquitos and Spiders. I just remember I couldn't stand Nathan that season.  I just remember Alton responding back to Nathan that Irulan could have completed that final which always made me laugh for some reason. 

Well, that would explain the weight and possibly the anger as well. LOL at Alton saying Irulan could've run that final, what was that in response to? Was someone saying no girls allowed or something? Also, Irulan, while smaller chested, was also a smoker and clearly a tiny person who stayed tiny without a whole lot of effort on her part, so I don't see her running that final as quickly or all the way at all. 

I remember Sarah sticking up for Coral, but I didn't trust her as a source. Sarah had the experience of being deemed too weak to play for that entire season (even after winning multiple gauntlets) and I think her natural inclination was to support Coral's story so it wouldn't be another case of "get rid of all of the girls, they're inherently weak" in the next Challenge. It was anyway, but I imagine part of her eagerness to confirm the spider bite story had some element of that in it. Not too many other people were jumping up to support it, IIRC. 

[choclatechip45]

27 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

Agreed, but these are the same producers who allowed the cameramen to follow Stephen around, watching him reach a boiling point and allowed him to get to the car to slap her, so lord knows they weren't the best judges of anything. 

As for the cast, I think they were mostly coming from a good place in wanting him to get help and also not to get bounced from this experience so few people get, but based on his behavior on the Challenge later, the therapy didn't do too much for him. The editing also made it appear that no one liked Irene by that point and that seemed to play into the choice, but the whole Irene-made-crazy-by-Lyme-Disease storyline seems a bit creatively cobbled when you look back on it with the awareness of how storylines can be created out of whole cloth.

Well, that would explain the weight and possibly the anger as well. LOL at Alton saying Irulan could've run that final, what was that in response to? Was someone saying no girls allowed or something? Also, Irulan, while smaller chested, was also a smoker and clearly a tiny person who stayed tiny without a whole lot of effort on her part, so I don't see her running that final as quickly or all the way at all. 

I remember Sarah sticking up for Coral, but I didn't trust her as a source. Sarah had the experience of being deemed too weak to play for that entire season (even after winning multiple gauntlets) and I think her natural inclination was to support Coral's story so it wouldn't be another case of "get rid of all of the girls, they're inherently weak" in the next Challenge. It was anyway, but I imagine part of her eagerness to confirm the spider bite story had some element of that in it. Not too many other people were jumping up to support it, IIRC. 

One thing I remember from Battle of the Seasons was Stephen's notebook he would write notes in and eavesdrop on The Road Rules team.

My favorite Stephen moment is Sean is doing an on the fly interview about how everyone on Real World will vote off the lowest scoring team even though there is someone no one likes and he goes its Stephen. The moment Sean says it you can see Stephen head pop up and realizes Sean is doing an interview he ducks back down. 

Alton said that in response to Nathan harping on him that he chose to vote in Theo over Coral. I could totally see Alton carry Irulan. 

I remember Norm supported the story, but him and Coral were super close and so did Melissa again her roommate. 

[Asp Burger]

4 hours ago, Bastet said:

[Stephen] fucking hit a housemate.  A housemate who said something horrible, but who was gone.  He didn't hit her in the moment (not that it would have been okay); he chased her down, got the driver to stop the car, opened Irene's door, and smacked her in the face (then laughed about it and repeatedly referred to her by a gender slur). 

He was continuing to do so three years later, reveling in his reality-TV notoriety. Some choice cuts from Kim's TWoP recap of the 2001 mega-reunion of the first nine seasons.

Back at the photo shoot, New Orleans Matt continues his campaign of annoyance, this time taking out Stephen. Matt claims that the only episode of the Seattle season he saw was when Stephen slapped Irene. Stephen laughs and says they ran the show "fifteen or sixteen times." Or more. Puck is upset that Stephen didn't get kicked out. Join the club. Rebecca says that everyone remembers her as being on the season where the guy slapped the girl. Rebecca wishes that people would get over it. […]

New Orleans Matt asks Stephen whether Chris Rock made fun of him. Stephen corrects him, saying that Chris Rock "gave [him] props." Matt gives us the quote: "Seattle hasn't seen that much violence since Stephen bitchslapped Irene." Yeah, I don't think that's "props." Matt and Stephen chuckle over hitting people, because I guess that's funny. […]  

Eric and [New Orleans] Melissa are back to introduce the #2 greatest moment in Real World history. Stephen says something dumb, and it makes me sick that he is getting so much attention for slapping Irene. Because "The Slap" (to which we've already linked) is the #2 moment. There's some footage from the Reunion 2000 where Stephen apologizes to anyone who's been affected by the negativity in his life. Notice that he's still not accepting the blame. […]

Dan interviews Andy Dick, asking him which season was his favorite. Andy Dick says that he mixes them all up in his head, and he thinks Puck was on with the guy who slapped that bitch. Dan says that Stephen went through anger management. Lindsay whispers something that I can't hear and it's not captioned on my tape. Dan asks Stephen whether, with all the buzz about the slap, it's difficult to move beyond the incident. Stephen responds, "I love the buzz, but who's Irene?" I hate him. Dan replies, "Maybe if you smacked me around a little bit, I could remember." I love Dan. Andy Dick claims that Stephen introduced himself as "that guy who slapped that bitch."

[Bastet]

49 minutes ago, Asp Burger said:

He was continuing to do so three years later, reveling in his reality-TV notoriety. Some choice cuts from Kim's TWoP recap of the 2001 mega-reunion of the first nine seasons.

Yikes!  That's sickening.  Has he ever, in the years since, acknowledged his actions were appalling and apologized?  Irene had the accountability to preface her recounting of the horror of that day and B-M/MTV's ongoing mishandling of it by saying outing Stephen on camera was one of the worst things she's ever done in her life.  I've never come across anything similar from Stephen, but you're a lot more knowledgeable about this franchise than I am.

[Asp Burger]

My knowledge runs out around mid-2000s. When the Vegas season established a trashier-than-ever new normal, and the Challenges were getting so toxic and violent as well, I weaned off. 

In the years in which I was paying close attention, I never heard anything from Stephen that made me think he had grown much.

I do wonder what he would say about all of it today, in his forties. I don't think he's maintained a public profile (even to the degree that Irene has, with her writing) or given recent interviews. I've read he was one of the people who prevented a Seattle Homecoming season.

[heatherchandler]

6 hours ago, choclatechip45 said:

Nathan has said in recent years he was in the middle of a very bad cocaine addiction when he did The Gauntlet. 

I didn’t know that, but it adds up.

And look at him now!

[choclatechip45]

27 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

I didn’t know that, but it adds up.

And look at him now!

He looks better than he did on the Real World Bash. I know he mentioned he got sober. 

I found this a good summary of his Mike Lewis interview https://www.monstersandcritics.com/tv/reality-tv/the-challenge-alum-opens-up-about-why-he-stepped-away-from-reality-tv-after-the-gauntlet/

Speaking of Stephen, Danny always worked in mentioning the slap in his confessionals during Battle of the seasons. 

Edited May 28, 2022 by choclatechip45

[choclatechip45]

3 hours ago, Bastet said:

Yikes!  That's sickening.  Has he ever, in the years since, acknowledged his actions were appalling and apologized?  Irene had the accountability to preface her recounting of the horror of that day and B-M/MTV's ongoing mishandling of it by saying outing Stephen on camera was one of the worst things she's ever done in her life.  I've never come across anything similar from Stephen, but you're a lot more knowledgeable about this franchise than I am.

The last time the viewers heard from Stephen was in 2008 when he showed up at the Real World Awards Bash with his husband. He accepted the award for Gone Baby Gone (Irene won) and said  Irene was doing great and they have made up. Nathan was not happy which lead to an argument that CT got involved in and so did David. Stephen then left the award bash because his husband didn’t want to be around such negativity. 

[Asp Burger]

Irene's much-discussed Vulture piece from 2013 gave no hint that she had had contact with Stephen since 1998. In fact, she strongly implies she had had no contact with anyone in the cast, even Rebecca and David, the two with whom she left on good terms. 

I've seen that clip from the "awards bash" show, and I'm with Nathan on doubting Stephen's narrative that he'd apologized and they're "friends" now. He could probably say that in 2008 knowing an Irene rebuttal would get nothing like the same audience. She never came to reunions or did Challenges, obviously. (The B/M weasels did play a 1998 Irene interview at the 2000 reunion, in which she called her housemates Judases, and misled her housemates and the viewers that these were her present-day thoughts.) 

Anyway, like Irene, I hope Stephen's doing well. I always root for people to grow and develop in good ways, and he did seem tormented during the Seattle season. He'd be right at the top of the list of Real World people I'd say needed counseling...more counseling than the mandated producer-face-saving bullshit that could be accomplished in the limited time the cast was to remain in Seattle. I mean, we heard from Janet's fish-throwing love interest that she had "57 days" left in Seattle, and that was some time before the slap incident, because Irene was around for it.

[ljenkins782]

14 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

New Orleans Matt asks Stephen whether Chris Rock made fun of him. Stephen corrects him, saying that Chris Rock "gave [him] props." Matt gives us the quote: "Seattle hasn't seen that much violence since Stephen bitchslapped Irene." Yeah, I don't think that's "props." Matt and Stephen chuckle over hitting people, because I guess that's funny. […]  

Well, there's some irony to this bit, isn't there? Seattle Stephen should send Will Smith a thank you note for taking the mantle of Slap Heard 'Round the World. 

Quote

Irene's much-discussed Vulture piece from 2013 gave no hint that she had had contact with Stephen since 1998. In fact, she strongly implies she had had no contact with anyone in the cast, even Rebecca and David, the two with whom she left on good terms. 

I've seen that clip from the "awards bash" show, and I'm with Nathan on doubting Stephen's narrative that he'd apologized and they're "friends" now. He could probably say that in 2008 knowing an Irene rebuttal would get nothing like the same audience. She never came to reunions or did Challenges, obviously. (The B/M weasels did play a 1998 Irene interview at the 2000 reunion, in which she called her housemates Judases, and misled her housemates and the viewers that these were her present-day thoughts.) 

Yeah, I strongly doubt that Irene and Stephen have patched anything up. Too much bad blood, too many years in between, and frankly, I have my doubts that Stephen's worked out his issues even now. There was a lot going on with that guy back then and he didn't seem that open to help.

Moreso than the slap incident, I think back to things like the fight he had with Janet in Nepal, when he was being incredibly rude to their hosts and seemed utterly oblivious to that fact. and the weirdness with the notebook in the challenge, writing down people's conversations like Harriet the Spy and thinking his team would appreciate it. He just seems not to understand normal social interaction. 

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

Moreso than the slap incident, I think back to things like the fight he had with Janet in Nepal, when he was being incredibly rude to their hosts and seemed utterly oblivious to that fact.

That was disgusting.  The sherpa invited them into his home to share a meal with his family, and Stephen chose to pick a fight with Janet in the middle of the living room.  If it had been a legitimate beef in the moment, he still should have had some manners and tabled it until later - which is exactly what she told him to do - but what he chose to go on about was how much make-up she wore.  Seriously, dude?!

He also full-on petulant pouted in a staff meeting when their boss didn't choose him as one of the DJs, but I could handwave that unprofessional display as youthful ignorance if it happened in a vacuum. 

I sympathize with the turmoil he was living in as a closeted Black man, especially in a house with two VMI bros, and grappling with the attitudes his mom had pounded into him.  But if he's never actually learned from the ways he conducted himself back then, I wouldn't hold any present-day sympathy.  It's one of the reasons I'd love to see a reunion (although I'd understand if Irene never wanted to get within a country mile of anything Bunim-Murray/MTV again, given the shameful way in which they misrepresented her exit and exploit her assault as entertainment to this fucking day).

[Asp Burger]

11 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

Well, there's some irony to this bit, isn't there? Seattle Stephen should send Will Smith a thank you note for taking the mantle of Slap Heard 'Round the World. 

Just in case anyone missed this a couple months ago...