Well, It Says Right Here...: All That's Wrong With Grimm

[Darklazr]

Wow.  I would say more than a few "fans" were upset with destroying one of the most popular items on the show (Grimmabago) and the dumbing down of the Grimm.  The trailer was a right of passage from Marie/Kelly down to Nick and eventually to Kelly Jr.  

Daytime soap operas block tape lots of scenes and I am surprised that primetime has not followed their example in order to save money.  Example.  All scenes at the Spice Shop / Grimmabago could have been shot in one day.  I am always a little amused at how primetime writers seem so overwhelmed with 22 scripts a year versus the 200 that daytime soaps toss out each year!

[Darklazr]

This is completely true.  What the writers should have done was have Nick decide that the content of the trailer was not safe with Juliette as a hexenbiest and thn moved the contents somewhere safe (which, frankly, would NOT be the Spice Shop, but whatever).  They even could have had a scene of Juliette going to the trailer will all her pent up angst and a lighted match and realized that Nick was one step ahead of her.  Frankly, not only would THAT have made more sense but it also would have helped all the crap that happened after that to make more sense (she realizes that Nick has gotten to a point where he sees her as a hexenbiest and will protect himself, his friends, and his "things" from her).  They still would have been able to get rid of the trailer/set, but no one would have felt betrayed by it.

 

And seriously...what purpose did it serve?  They had already pretty much done all the damage they could to Juliette (and, let's face it, probably more than they really wanted to do....)  There was never a time from the time the trailer was burnt that Nick was stymied by not having access to his stuff.  And now, well, they have new books and shinier weapons.  I really don't think fans would have had a problem if the actual trailer (just the trailer, not the contents) was taken off the show.

 

 

No, I don't think they ever wanted to write off Bitsie.  They may have realized that they screwed up with Juliette and wanted to start fresh-maybe even give her a bigger role, but I don't think there was ever a question of BT leaving.  I do think, however, that they fucked themselves with the season 4 character assassination and then did it again with "Eve."  If they wanted to keep Bitsie, they should have:

Option A: Toned season 4 down a bit and then made it clear that Juilette was not dead.  The "character" currently named Eve IS Juliette and something horrible happened to her to brainwash her...

 

or...

 

Option B: Kill Juilette.  We already know that hexenbiests use corpse for certain spells so have something happen where Juliette's body was reanimated with someone else.  That means no Juliette memories, Nick is a complete stranger to her, etc.

 

Oh, and another thing...I'm having some issues with this site off and on and I lost a reply, but it was about the idea of getting rid of the trailer because of the cost.  I don't think they got rid of the trailer for any financial reason.  There might have been a security reason (it was parked in a public-ish place) or even a space issue (they needed the space used for the set of the interior of the trailer for something else).  I do think there *might* have been a financial reason for getting rid of the house, though.  The ad buys for this season of Grimm dropped and I can imagine that maybe the network trimmed their budget and they were looking for some ways to bring costs down.  Not paying to shoot a few scenes in front of someone's house could save them a bit of money. 

 

Option Z.  When Juliette was upstairs, she had several flashes of her previous life with Nick, and instead of sitting on her ass, she should have come downstairs and killed everyone, except for Momma Grimm and Diana.  Juliette apologizes for setting up Kelly and tells her to take Diana and never return to Portland or she will lose the child forever.  Once Nick arrives back at the house with Trubel and Hank, they find Juliette who informs them that she lured Kelly and Diana back to town, but told them to leave and never come back.  Truble offers Juliette a chance to work with HW and both women leave to meet up with Agent Chavez.  Adalind and the baby both die in labor.  Six months later, Renard receives a package from Kelly Burkhardt which contains a video of Diana who looks exactly like Eric Renard!

[OtterMommy]

Wow.  I would say more than a few "fans" were upset with destroying one of the most popular items on the show (Grimmabago) and the dumbing down of the Grimm.  The trailer was a right of passage from Marie/Kelly down to Nick and eventually to Kelly Jr.  

 

I have to agree with this.  People are divided on a lot on this show (pro-Nadalind, anti-Nadalind, Wu is great, Wu is annoying, pro-Juliette, Anti-Juliette, HW/BC is a great development, HW/BC doesn't fit...to name a few), but I don't know of anyone in real life or anywhere on social media who wasn't really, really upset about the trailer.  

 

I also follow a number of the cast on Social Media, including Bitsie Tulloch and she--I mean, Bitsie Tulloch, not Juliette--was skewered after that episode aired.  Trust me, people were pissed.  (And it is really not okay to attack an actor for something their character does...just sayin')

[icewolf]

I also follow a number of the cast on Social Media, including Bitsie Tulloch and she--I mean, Bitsie Tulloch, not Juliette--was skewered after that episode aired.  Trust me, people were pissed.  (And it is really not okay to attack an actor for something their character does...just sayin')

I can understand why. Many people were pissed as hell when Juliette slept with Kenneth (Ewww).

 

I never had much of a problem with with Bitsie herself, though she can be a bit wooden at times. My blame was always on the writers for giving us the bad writing. I had thought they were finally going to make the Nick/Juliette interesting by turning her into a Hexenbiest, and she would learn to control the dark urges by the end of the season. That actually would have been pretty cool.

 

Imagine my surprise when they character assassinated Juliette and pissed off her fans, but also pissed off her haters by giving her such a massive arc.

 

That was just as bad as if they had decided to turn Rosalee into a crack whore who decided her sell her body on the streets to buy drugs.

[OtterMommy]

That was just as bad as if they had decided to turn Rosalee into a crack whore who decided her sell her body on the streets to buy drugs.

 

Please don't give them any ideas....

[icewolf]

Please don't give them any ideas....

I'm actually pretty terrified what the writers are planning for Rosalee this season. That entire scene with the former druggie friend of hers, Tony who came to the shop to destroy her things and abuse her was pretty awful.

 

That scene wasn't worth showing how "badass" Adalind was, I laughed at the bad CG of Tony's fingers being bent backwards by Adalind's powers.

Edited March 18, 2016 by icewolf

[Darklazr]

When the show killed off the Grimmabago and Momma Grimm, I was furious and thought they went way too far, especially since they brought Juliette back with this lame Eve story.

[merylinkid]

 

That's not how the business works. Shows on the standard 22-episodes-in-10-months production schedule don't have much leeway to flim scenes far in advance when they don't even know if they will be able to use the footage. Script writing is usually only about 2 episodes ahead of filming.

 

Except on Law & Order SVU, they would go to NYC a couple time a year and film a bunch of scenes for a few episodes actually in the City.   Same with the Good Wife.   They would head to Chicago and film a bunch of scenes at once.    Quite frankly, given they film in Portland, filming a bunch of scenes at the trailer 3 or 4 times a year would be cheaper than that.   

 

Also, they could have just cut out the scenes of someone entering the trailer.   Wu "While you guys are chasing the bad guy, I'll go research at the trailer what kind of Wesen he is is."   Cut to Wu in the trailer thumbing through the books -- without food and drink nearby.    See, then all you need is the set.   Which they probably needed the space for something like the Prison Factory or HW HQ.  

 

There were so many options on this show.   The writers/TPTB/whoever always seem to choose the worst one.    

[Prevailing Wind]

SVU is filmed entirely in NYC - studios at Chelsea Piers.

[ChromaKelly]

Yeah. I'm another one who hasn't gotten over the Grimmabago burning. It really killed something in the show. It could have been moved to a storage unit and they film on a sound stage. Or just keep reusing an exterior shot and then cut to the characters inside.

I am NOT OK with Nick/Adalind. I hope it comes out that she's doing the long con and has put a spell on Nick. IDK how else to explain his change of heart regarding her.

A lingering question I've had: The Royals were after baby Diana because she's one of the last of the royal family. So, why was Renard not claimed by the family?

[Prevailing Wind]

 

A lingering question I've had: The Royals were after baby Diana because she's one of the last of the royal family. So, why was Renard not claimed by the family?

Exactly. They have the same type of parentage - Royal Sperm, Hexen Egg.  AND...if Diana truly is Sean's & not Eric's kid, that makes it even more baffling, because she's the crotchfruit of a half Royal/Half Hexie and a Hexie.  If *that's* acceptable, they should also have embraced & tried to co-opt Renard.

[placate]

Exactly. They have the same type of parentage - Royal Sperm, Hexen Egg.  AND...if Diana truly is Sean's & not Eric's kid, that makes it even more baffling, because she's the crotchfruit of a half Royal/Half Hexie and a Hexie.  If *that's* acceptable, they should also have embraced & tried to co-opt Renard.

The only thing I can even think of is that it was stated in earlier seasons that the queen of the family hates Renard. If it is Eric's kid and not his, she would probably love her granddaughter. Then again, I'm pretty sure that the writers dropped the whole royal thing since they apparently forgot that they wrote that the royals had four of the keys.

[spaulding]

I agree with all of those points.  Especially that Nick's sex life should always have been on the back burner, and that they're so unoriginal as to retread Adalind's pregnancy and hexenation.  Revisiting past wesen we've met and fleshing out their stories would be better than what we're getting now.  Where's Bud?  How are the eisbiebers reacting to the 'uprising'?

 

The most interesting part of this show is the wesen.  See wesen through Nick's eyes.  Instead, the focus is on Nick.  Not Nick's adventures into wesen territory.  It's Nick's personal drama. 

 

I would rather watch wesen character development.  I want to see how wesen live in their own society and live among humans.  Nick's interaction with the eisbiebers was likeable.  More of that, please.  And more Bud!

 

Hank is my favorite, too, and I've always thought he was smarter than his partner.  If they gave him much more material I fear it would also be of the romance variety which they might mess up.  Back in the second or so season they had him encounter someone from high school who turned out to be wesen, so he is apparently from the area and they could work some more of that in.  Same with Wu.  I wish they would instead of all this Nick drama.  I know he is the Grimm, but he's gone kind of stupid and annoying.  I used to like him quite a bit.

 

Love Wu.  When given a good storyline, Wu can be more than comic relief. 

 

Hands down, Hank is the more likeable character on the show.  He brings a thoughtfulness and calmness to his relationship with Nick.  And he knows what a whirligig is!

[tpel]

I always thought that the Royals were not so much embracing Diana as wanting to have her in order to make use of her. The male progeny of hexenbiests don't seem to have any particular powers, except perhaps increased strength and resilience. The females have more magical abilities, and Diana doubly so because of the ritual performed while she gestated. When Renard and Adalind did not want their daughter to be in the hands of the Royals, I didn't get the sense that they were worried about her becoming a princess and living in the lap of luxury; rather, they did not want her to become a tool.

 

Yeah, spaulding, I find Nick much more likable when we're seeing the wesen world through his eyes. He's great as an "every man" perspective -- I remember enjoying his bemused reactions early in the run of the show. But when he is dealing with personal relationships, I find him much less likable. Hank, on the other hand, is always great.

[Darklazr]

Yeah. I'm another one who hasn't gotten over the Grimmabago burning. It really killed something in the show. It could have been moved to a storage unit and they film on a sound stage. Or just keep reusing an exterior shot and then cut to the characters inside.

I am NOT OK with Nick/Adalind. I hope it comes out that she's doing the long con and has put a spell on Nick. IDK how else to explain his change of heart regarding her.

A lingering question I've had: The Royals were after baby Diana because she's one of the last of the royal family. So, why was Renard not claimed by the family?

 

I thought the Royal's wanted the kid before they knew that Adalind was the mother and afterwards because she had all of those funky powers?

[OtterMommy]

I thought the Royal's wanted the kid before they knew that Adalind was the mother and afterwards because she had all of those funky powers?

I think this is yet another example of the creative team not thinking things through. As far as I can tell, there are two possibilities as to why the Royals were so desperate to get Diana.

1 - They are inbred enough that many of them are sterile. We know that Viktor is sterile and Eric was never seriously considered a possible father to Diana. Renard, being a "half-breed," has a bigger (in many ways) gene pool, as would his child and the Royals need her to keep the family going.

2 - They really have a thing for hexenbiests and to have a legitimate (not really, but whatever) hexenbiest in the family would go a long way to helping them re-assert their power.

Either one is possible, but I'd like them to choose one and stick to it. Right now, none of it really makes any sense.

[orza]

That would fit in with the idea that the royals are the fictionalized Habsburgs, who in real life went extinct due to inbreeding.  One of they also said they wanted Diana for her powers.

[Darklazr]

King Frederick asked Viktor which one of his sons (Eric or Sean) was the baby's father, and we know Adalind was already sleeping with Eric and had a ONS with Sean.  I still maintain that Diana is Eric's kid and it moves Renard far, far away from anything Adalind related!

 

The Royal's would want to keep the child within the family (hexenbiest or not) which is why Sebastian told Sean and Sean stated Eric would take the child and not pay the mother.  Sebastian asked Sean if he wanted to pony up some cash which is all kinds of wrong, but whatever.

 

I still think Diana should have been either Eric's or Hank's kid!

We have no idea if Eric was married or had any children, because the show IMO killed off the character way too soon!

[Actionmage]

A lingering question I've had: The Royals were after baby Diana because she's one of the last of the royal family. So, why was Renard not claimed by the family?

 

Renard is not the prophesied child that can wreck great Good or Evil depending on how The Child is raised. Diana is. (Momma Kelly told the group the whole prophesy and why they had to keep Diana away from the Royals.) Like Darklazr said.

[tpel]

From the Nick Burkhardt thread, some missed opportunities with regard to Diana:

 

There are two outcomes of the Diana situation that I would have liked. Sadly, neither is going to happen now:

1. Adalind learns that her baby was kidnapped by the Resistance. So she goes looking for the only Resistance member she knows: Meisner. Upon finding him somewhere in Europe, she learns that the Resistance does not have Diana. Adalind and Meisner continue to develop the relationship they started when Meisner rescued Adalind. They retrieve Diana from Kelly, who is willing to relinquish Diana to them when it becomes clear that Diana approves. Besides, Kelly is getting tired of dealing with a spooky infant; she comes back to Portland and mentors Trubel. Adalind, Meisner, and Diana live happily ever after (OK, probably not . . . Adalind and Meisner both do various violent things to other people, but they take good care of Diana), mostly off-screen. Renard occasionally makes amusingly cryptic remarks about Diana's developing powers, indicating that he visits her.

2. Elizabeth (Renard's mother) went off in search of her granddaughter. She finds Diana in Kelly's custody. Instead of fighting to the death, the two mature women decide to work together to protect the child they both care about. Since nobody would expect them to cooperate, they are able to make Diana virtually untraceable by trading custody periodically under the guise of fighting each other. Growing up with the tutelage of two such badass grannies, Diana becomes a force to be reckoned with . . . but not for several years, during which time she is mostly off-screen.

Either of these plot lines would tie up the Diana story in a fairly satisfying way, without sucking up much time from the major characters. The first one, of course, has the advantage of precluding Nadalind ;-)

 

 

Obviously, these are just my personal preferences; Darklazr has offered a more violent and permanent way of tying up the loose threads. What is frustrating is that the writers had all kinds of options, since they actually had some interesting secondary characters on the periphery of the Diana story-line who could have been brought into play in organic ways. Instead, they just kind of forgot about the kid, and now that they've remembered, it looks like they are bringing her back into the mix in an artificial way.

[Darklazr]

From the Nick Burkhardt thread, some missed opportunities with regard to Diana:

 

 

Obviously, these are just my personal preferences; Darklazr has offered a more violent and permanent way of tying up the loose threads. What is frustrating is that the writers had all kinds of options, since they actually had some interesting secondary characters on the periphery of the Diana story-line who could have been brought into play in organic ways. Instead, they just kind of forgot about the kid, and now that they've remembered, it looks like they are bringing her back into the mix in an artificial way.

 

General Hospital gives me a headache most days, but for some reason Grimm's nonsense with Diana, Adalind and Juliette really grates on my nerves.  I am used to baby rabies, WTD, and kids born on Tuesday that are now teens on Saturday, but this crap with Diana and Kelly just gets on my nerves.  Enough!

 

Frau Pech was killed in order for Adalind to regain her powers, so I don't think Adalind should have had Diana AND her powers!  There really should have been some consequences to what Adalind did to Frau Pech and that was no baby Diana.  It seems (IMO) that the show just ignored Adalind's evilness in order to give her a magical baby that disappeared for three years and then they throw Kelly Jr. in the mix.  

 

I agree the writers could have taken several paths when it came to Diana and adding Kelly was just overkill.  I will admit that the show should have kept Eric alive and see how he dealt with a hexenbiest child, especially if his mother was still alive!  It would have been karma and Adalind would have to deal with the Royal's since she decided to go meddle with Renard's family in the first place!

[orza]

They can't keep a character alive and in play when the actor is done with the show and has moved on. James Frain went to another show so that had to be the end of Eric. Recasting roles is usually not done because it is so poorly received by viewers.

[merylinkid]

Ehh, it's a minor side character.   It's not like they were recasting Nick.   Or even Hank.    Heck on the Jeffersons, another actor played Lionel for 3 years and no one complained.   Then there were the 2 Darrens on Bewitched.   I think they could have had a break with no Eric on screen and brough in a new actor for a minor part and no one would have made a scene -- provided the story was good.   Then the complaint would be why bring the guy back if they are just going to make a mess of things.   

[orza]

Those shows were a long time ago. James Frain is a well-known actor with a following. People would complain.

[Darklazr]

Those shows were a long time ago. James Frain is a well-known actor with a following. People would complain.

 

Fans already complain about the show!  JF was only in eight episodes, so the show could have had the bomb cause Eric to need plastic surgery and another actor should have taken over the role.  Viktor/Alexis Denisof could have still played the cousin while Eric was recuperating.

[orza]

Woulda, coulda, shoulda. They could have done a lot of things differently but they didn't for reasons that really don't matter at this point. In any case, this is the show we have.

[formerlyfreedom]

It's absolutely okay to complain in here about what you think is wrong with Grimm - after all, the topic IS subtitled "All That's Wrong With Grimm." So let's move on please.

[OtterMommy]

 

Frau Pech was killed in order for Adalind to regain her powers, so I don't think Adalind should have had Diana AND her powers!  There really should have been some consequences to what Adalind did to Frau Pech and that was no baby Diana.  It seems (IMO) that the show just ignored Adalind's evilness in order to give her a magical baby that disappeared for three years and then they throw Kelly Jr. in the mix.  

 

This has actually really bothered me since season 3. They made a huge deal about Adalind's contract with Stephania and then, when Adalind broke it, there really was no consequence for it. I'm really hoping that this will come into play in the remainder of this season.

[neuromom]

This has actually really bothered me since season 3. They made a huge deal about Adalind's contract with Stephania and then, when Adalind broke it, there really was no consequence for it. I'm really hoping that this will come into play in the remainder of this season.

My thoughts exactly! I've been waiting for consequences for , what, 2 years now? I eventually had to resign myself to the possibility that it was just another dropped plot line on the part of the writers. I dunno,..maybe Diana will return as some sort of "reincarnation " of Frau Pech, determined to wreck her horrible vengeance on Adalind.

[Darklazr]

My thoughts exactly! I've been waiting for consequences for , what, 2 years now? I eventually had to resign myself to the possibility that it was just another dropped plot line on the part of the writers. I dunno,..maybe Diana will return as some sort of "reincarnation " of Frau Pech, determined to wreck her horrible vengeance on Adalind.

 

OMG!  We are on the same page.  In my head (LOL) when Diana returns she morphs in and out as Frau Pech and outs what Adalind did to regain her powers.  Adalind now has her powers and we see a battle royal between Diana who IS now Frau Pech to the death of both women!

[iMonrey]

So I posted this in the episode thread but wanted to address it here too:

 

 

So - if Black Claw wants to conquer the world and/or come out of the Wesen closet, and The Royals want to dominate the Wesen World, and the Resistance is . . . resisting the attempt by the Royals to dominate the Wesen world . . . does that mean the Royals and the Resistance now both have some common ground in wanting to defeat Black Claw??

 

I don't know - I have a feeling the show has dropped the whole Royals thing like a hot potato and is trying to refocus on Black Claw vs. Hadrian's Wall. The problem is they still need to mention The Resistance, because that's who has Diana. But it seems like The Resistance no longer has a purpose if a.) they've dropped anything to do with The Royals and whatever the hell they were trying to accomplish for the past four years and b.) if Hadrian's Wall has essentially become the New Resistance. They're just Resisting Black Claw now instead of The Royals. 

 

I guess.

[OtterMommy]

I've mentioned this before, but I'm a book blogger and reviewer and, therefore, not only spend a lot of time in "story" but also think about it far too much and am far too critical (I know...complete shocker).  I read across most genres, but one genre that I've been spending a lot of time with lately is romance--which is a genre which has a bad rap (frankly, some of that is deserved) but is also morphing and growing probably more than any other genre.  Don't worry...I'm going to tie this back to Grimm in a moment.

 

I was chatting with one of my kindred spirits about this yesterday and we touched on something that romances have not always done well: Character Agency.  Granted, the genre is getting a lot better, but I still come across books that lack this and it drives me bonkers.

 

So, what is Character Agency?  I think that Science Fiction author Chuck Wendig has one of the best definitions (source):

 

Character agency is, to me, a demonstration of the character’s ability to make decisions and affect the story. This character has motivations all her own. She is active more than she is reactive. She pushes on the plot more than the plot pushes on her. Even better, the plot exists as a direct result of the character’s actions.

(Chuck Wendig's emphasis)

 

After our conversation (okay, rant), I realized that this is yet one more thing that Grimm just can't do.  It just can't give the characters any agency.  

 

Now, they have had moments.  There have been times where the character rocked it with a great--or even a horrible--decision and the show nailed giving a character some agency.  Sadly, these instances are few and far between and not well distributed among the characters.

 

Thinking about it a bit more, here is where I can think of (off the top of my head and up to "A Reptile Dysfunction"--because I pretty much quit watching after that) where we had some real agency from the characters....from the character  I think has the most agency to the character I think has the least:

 

Wu

While normally a fountain of snark, Wu took it upon himself to question Nick's connection with Trubel, who he knew only to be a suspect in a murder.  And, when the door to the Wesen world opened (the second time!), he made the decision to venture through and accept it as a new reality.

 

Oh, and he also decided to steal that damn cookie.

 

Renard

He's been put to the sidelines for much of the show, but--when given the chance--he does his own thing.  He makes choices that fly in the face of what is expected, either by his role as a Police Captain or by his role as a Zauberbiest and a bastard royal.

 

Monroe

From here on out, the agency among the character starts to fade pretty quickly, but Monroe still had his moments before he just became the second for Nick.  There was a point in the first season where he basically said, "Screw it, I'm going to help a Grimm."  There were also times when he stood up to Nick, although not nearly as many as there should be.

 

Adalind

Honestly, not much here...except at the end of season 1 when she made the decision to seek vengeance on Nick by putting Juliette into a coma.  Then, in season 2, she made the decision to get pregnant and sell her baby.  After that...nada.  Complete and udder nada.  I mean, to be fair, she never really made the decision to run off with Diana--Meisner showed up and she went with him.  That's it.  I thought for a moment that when she decided to go to Nick for help at the end of season 4 would be another bit of agency, but no...that really made no sense and was more a plot convenience (hey, let's make Adalind pregnant with Nick's child even though it is flat out mathematically impossible!  Hey, instead of having Adalind just leave town when Kenneth drops her like any halfway sane person would do, let's have her go seek help from her nemesis--just like absolutely NO ONE would ever do!)

 

Juliette

Again, not much here...but she did turn down Nick's marriage proposal for a very good reason.  

 

Rosalee

I know she's a well-loved character but, if you think about it, she lacks any real agency.  And, the sad part is, that there were PLENTY of opportunities to give that to her.  Why does she stay in Portland after her brother was murdered?  The show just portrayed it as she had the hots for Monroe and it just happens that she stays.  They could have fleshed that out a bit and made her decision clear.  And, since then, she tends to just be there when needed.  Yeah, she can be a bad-ass (and I mean that in a good way), but she's that way because the plot needs her to be, not because she chooses to be.

 

Hank

I honestly cannot think of a single time Hank has shown any agency whatsoever.  But, that being said, I would give him a little slack because the partner of the main character in a procedural generally isn't usually given that much agency.

 

Which, of course, leaves us with...

 

Nick

Yeah, the main character of this show has no real agency!  I've complained for quite some time about Nick making bad decisions, but the truth is that he just doesn't make decisions.  In season 1, he never really decided to tell or not to tell Juliette about his being a Grimm. He just let it hang out there.  In season 2, he just sort of camped out in Monroe's guest room while Juliette had her amnesia issues (and I still think the show fucked up royally with all that!  But, that's another post).  In season 3, he lets his mother just show up with a woman who tried to kill both him and Juliette and then he just goes along with a plan to kidnap a child.  In season 4, the show didn't even have HIM make the decision to get his Grimm back.  They could have developed that where Nick truly realizes that this is part of him and he isn't "complete" without it.  Instead, they insert the whole Wesenrein plot which pretty much makes the decision for Nick and relieves him of any responsibility.  Then, with hexenJuliette...he leaves her voice mails and whines, but he doesn't actually do much to try and save the relationship.  Then, season 5...just....all of season 5.

 

(I'm not including Trubel here because we don't really know what happened to involve her with Hadrian' Wall.  And I'm not including Bud because, frankly, I don't think he's a big enough character to include here...)

 

So, here we have a show where the only characters with any real agency are 2 supporting characters (although the fact that Renard is basically a supporting character is a whole other issue) and the main character lack agency more than anyone.  I've lamented Nick's lack of figurative testicles over and over again, but it's really a symptom of a much bigger problem.

Edited April 1, 2016 by OtterMommy

[stuckin60s]

cant stand Adalind, so many reasons.  No one seems to remember that she had sex with Hank

 

Juliette - should just go

 

Love Rosalee and Monroe - they should make their characters stronger

 

Wu is great too

[OtterMommy]

cant stand Adalind, so many reasons.  No one seems to remember that she had sex with Hank

 

Adalind didn't have sex with Hank.  "Having sex" means that both parties are fully able to give consent to be intimate with each other and then actually give that consent.

 

Because Adalind had essentially drugged Hank, he was not fully able to give consent.  The reference was made in the show--the only time they've even come close to calling Adalind's behavior for what it is in this regard--that it was like she had roofied him.

 

Hence, Adalind did not have sex with Hank.  She raped him.

Edited April 1, 2016 by OtterMommy

[icewolf]

What episodes could have made a decent series finale if we wanted to completely avoid Adalind's dumb second pregnancy and HexenJuliette nonsense?

Episodes:

3x22 - Monroe and Rosalee get married. Seems like good closure for the show. But Renard is shot, and Nick has been degrimmed puts a damper on things.

4x06 - Nick gets his powers back, but Josh randomly appears at the end

4x07 - Trubel and Josh leave concluding their storyline. But the show just HAD to end at the dumb final shot of Juliette taking a pregnancy test. For real? This episode was SUPPOSE to be closure for Trubel, I'm assuming the writers had no plans to bring her back at this point.

4x10 - Wesenrein beaten. These two Monroe gets kidnapped episodes were actually pretty good. But another dumb final shot of Juliette going to Renard brings back terrible flashbacks of season 2.

I'll argue the MOMENT Adalind found out about her second pregnancy was when the show irreversibly jumped the shark, it led directly to this season's crappy Nadalind plot. There is no real way to deal with that baby, they obviously won't kill it and shipping it off will seem like a retread of the Diana plot.

RoboJulitte has also been a misfire this year, but at least she has been staying the hell away from Nick.

One thing I'll never do is buy season 4 on dvd, the second half of the S4 contained some of the worst writing on television. S1-S3 is still great, with some fast forwarding of any annoying Adalind or Juliette scenes.

[ShadowFacts]

 

So, here we have a show where the only characters with any real agency are 2 supporting characters (although the fact that Renard is basically a supporting character is a whole other issue) and the main character lack agency more than anyone.  I've lamented Nick's lack of figurative testicles over and over again, but it's really a symptom of a much bigger problem.

 

Nick has always been low-key, and that's fine, but he became too passive and insipid where Juliette and Adalind are concerned.  They should never have gone that deeply into his personal life/soap opera.  He just comes off stupid.

 

A minor character who has more agency than the protagonist is Bud (where's Bud?).  He had the balls to come over and check out the Grimm early on, with a quilt or basket of jam or something.  I am terrible recalling details, but he wasn't going to go down passively during the Wesenrein horror, and he pitched in with taking care of Adalind.  We need more Bud.

 

 

One thing I'll never do is buy season 4 on dvd, the second half of the S4 contained some of the worst writing on television. S1-S3 is still great, with some fast forwarding of any annoying Adalind or Juliette scenes.

 

Amen to that.  It really was starkly obvious when things went off the rails after the first half of S4.  Too bad.

[OtterMommy]

I'll argue the MOMENT Adalind found out about her second pregnancy was when the show irreversibly jumped the shark, it led directly to this season's crappy Nadalind plot. There is no real way to deal with that baby, they obviously won't kill it and shipping it off will seem like a retread of the Diana plot.

 

Word.  It is actually rare, for me at least, to pinpoint the one moment in a show where it just dies...but there is absolutely no question with Grimm.  It was this moment that marked the death of the series.

 

 

Nick has always been low-key, and that's fine, but he became too passive and insipid where Juliette and Adalind are concerned.  They should never have gone that deeply into his personal life/soap opera.  He just comes off stupid.

 

Low-key is one thing.  There is absolutely no problem with being low-key.  The problem is that Nick is not a guy who makes things happen.  He's a guy to whom things happen.  This can work in a secondary character, or perhaps a lead character if it is a comedic role.  It doesn't work in a serious lead role for an action-orientated show.  He's always been too passive if you think about it....

 

A minor character who has more agency than the protagonist is Bud (where's Bud?).  He had the balls to come over and check out the Grimm early on, with a quilt or basket of jam or something.  I am terrible recalling details, but he wasn't going to go down passively during the Wesenrein horror, and he pitched in with taking care of Adalind.  We need more Bud.

 

You're right about Bud.  I didn't include him because he gets far less airtime than anyone else and very, very few plots even involve him.  However, if you figure out how much agency a character has in terms of screen time, Bud has-by a long shot--more than any other character on this show.

 

That being said, I don't think we actually need more of him.  One of the few things--maybe the only thing--this show does right is that it gives us just the right amount of Bud.  Any less and he'd be completely irrelevant; any more and he'd quickly become annoying.

[ShadowFacts]

 

Low-key is one thing.  There is absolutely no problem with being low-key.  The problem is that Nick is not a guy who makes things happen.  He's a guy to whom things happen.  This can work in a secondary character, or perhaps a lead character if it is a comedic role.  It doesn't work in a serious lead role for an action-orientated show.  He's always been too passive if you think about it....

 

Agreed, he's never been dynamic.  It worked out okay early on when he was a new Grimm having new wesen situations thrown at him left and right and he had to just deal with the problem at hand.  But now he's just entirely reactionary.  Or at times, semi-catatonic.

 

 

That being said, I don't think we actually need more of him.  One of the few things--maybe the only thing--this show does right is that it gives us just the right amount of Bud.  Any less and he'd be completely irrelevant; any more and he'd quickly become annoying.

 

He hasn't been on for many episodes.  I don't think we've seen him this calendar year.  That's irrelevant approaching invisible.  I don't know what they'd have him do, but I need a little Bud fix.  Small doses, for sure. 

[Prevailing Wind]

I just finished binge-watching Twin Peaks.  I've decided my approach to both shows is the same - Loved it at first, grew to hate its stupidity and nonsense for nonsense's sake, yet I can't stop watching.  I'll see it through to the end, but I won't enjoy it.  What is WRONG with me?

[neuromom]

I just finished binge-watching Twin Peaks.  I've decided my approach to both shows is the same - Loved it at first, grew to hate its stupidity and nonsense for nonsense's sake, yet I can't stop watching.  I'll see it through to the end, but I won't enjoy it.  What is WRONG with me?

I'll join you at your little table in the corner. I have the same problem myself.

[OtterMommy]

Agreed, he's never been dynamic.  It worked out okay early on when he was a new Grimm having new wesen situations thrown at him left and right and he had to just deal with the problem at hand.  But now he's just entirely reactionary.  Or at times, semi-catatonic.

 

I can see how that happens.  The first season was all new stuff being thrown at him and it made sense, so t isn't unreasonable to think that his passivity sort of snuck in as the show went along.

 

However, that isn't a reason.  It's an excuse, and a pretty bad one at that.  I would think that if you are writing for a network TV show, you should at least be skilled enough to create a competent character with agency.  TV Characters cannot evolve on their own--I mean, yes, it should look like they do...but they don't.  They are crafted and the writers are the ones with the control.

 

They missed their chance in season 2.  Season 1 was all about new stuff getting thrown at Nick and him figuring out his new reality.  However, that season ended with Juliette in a coma and his dead mom showing up.  In Season 2, he should have started being the character to push the plot along.  Instead, he just sort of goes to work and does his thing as needed and then goes back to Monroe's house and mopes in the guest room until Juliette decides she wants him back.  He could have, I don't know actually fought for Juliette, wooed her, whatever.  He could have, once he realized what Renard was, made some decisions of his own instead of just taking a wait-and-see approach with everything.  Once Hank was in on the secret, Nick could have worked with him so that Hank would be able to better handle Wesen (even if he couldn't see them) instead of always just always stepping aside for Nick.

 

There were opportunities after season 2 to remedy things (like the last half of season 4), but they had already let it slip.  Heck, I actually expected changes with season 5--this is supposed to be a reboot, after all--but things are worse than ever.

[ShadowFacts]

 

There were opportunities after season 2 to remedy things (like the last half of season 4), but they had already let it slip.  Heck, I actually expected changes with season 5--this is supposed to be a reboot, after all--but things are worse than ever.

 

Exactly.  Now in the latest episode he is just waiting and seeing again with Renard's candidacy and is he or is he not going into Black Claw, and with Adalind is she or is she not getting her powers back, and Juliette is she or is she not someone he can work with.  He doesn't discuss anything with anyone.  The whole Scooby gang said they needed to learn more about Hadrian's Wall before committing, then dropped that like a hot potato.  No strategizing, no mulling, no planning.  It is pure sloppiness in the writing.  

[OtterMommy]

He hasn't been on for many episodes.  I don't think we've seen him this calendar year.  That's irrelevant approaching invisible.  I don't know what they'd have him do, but I need a little Bud fix.  Small doses, for sure. 

 

Well, I've barely been watching this season, so I missed the Bud absence.  I do think they should have a policy where Bud has to be in one of every 4 episodes or something like that.  

 

Sadly, Bud is the only character who hasn't pissed me off...,.

[catrox14]

I will never forgive them for burning the trailer.  Juliette could have betrayed Nick on so many other levels. To me that was egregious. There was so much LORE and the books and everything that built the show.

 

And I already disliked Juliette so that didn't up my level of disdain for that character in any meaningful way. 

[Darklazr]

We saw Bud in the first episode of the season and then one more time when Monroe's business neighbor was kidnapped.  I miss Bud's quirkiness, but agree that he should be seen only a few times during the season

I will never forgive them for burning the trailer.  Juliette could have betrayed Nick on so many other levels. To me that was egregious. There was so much LORE and the books and everything that built the show.

 

And I already disliked Juliette so that didn't up my level of disdain for that character in any meaningful way. 

 

Preach!  Nick should have moved the trailer once he realized Juliette was a hexenbiest and why her panties were in a bunch when she had already screwed Renard!  What a biotch.

[ottilie]

Juliette's life was ultimately screwed up by Nick though. She originally was a vet and had this nice house before she met him.

 

Anyway, in Portland, here is a google streetview photo of where they originally parked the trailer. They're building something. https://www.google.com/maps/@45.535558,-122.6844146,3a,60y,180h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1siQ0p8ZpbNinEIANoIAqCnA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[kathyk24]

When the show began I wanted Nick and Juliette together now I wish Juliette had stayed dead. Arson and murder are actions I can't forgive and neither should Nick. Killing all of the Black Claw members won't bring back his mother. I'm shocked that Nick has the least amount of backstory of all the main characters. It's been five years and we still don't know about his life prior to becoming a Grimm. Have they told us about his father for example?

[Darklazr]

Nick and Juliette moved into the house at the same time, because  we saw flashbacks of moving day.

 

Juliette should have stayed dead after season 4!

 

I really hope not dead Juliette loses all of her powers once she's done playing Renard and ends up in a psych ward and off the streets!

[blugirlami21]

I'm just confused on why Adalind gets a murder pass and Juliette doesn't. Are hexenbiests responsible for their actions or not? I feel like the writers are trying to say everything bad Adalind did was because she was a hexenbiest but a lot if the evil stuff she did, she did as a human. A plain ole human.

Juliette on the other hand didn't ask for anything that happened to her. She was turned into a hexenbiest against her will and I still don't understand why that suddenly made her evil.

The writers only had her burn down the trailer and kill Nick's mother to make her death more acceptable.

I didn't always love or like Juliette but I think it's sad that she's the ultimate casualty of Adalind's machinations and no one cares.

Edited April 3, 2016 by blugirlami21

[OtterMommy]

When the show began I wanted Nick and Juliette together now I wish Juliette had stayed dead. Arson and murder are actions I can't forgive and neither should Nick. Killing all of the Black Claw members won't bring back his mother. I'm shocked that Nick has the least amount of backstory of all the main characters. It's been five years and we still don't know about his life prior to becoming a Grimm. Have they told us about his father for example?

 

Here is Nick's complete backstory:

He liked baseball as a kid

His aunt took him for "an adventure" one night and, that night, his parents "died"

His aunt raised him from that point

His aunt, by profession, was a librarian

They moved around a lot, which makes no sense if his aunt was a librarian.  I've worked in libraries and, in my experience, librarians don't leave their job unless they leave the profession (retire, change fields, etc) or their job is cut.  We don't know where they moved around to....

And that's it.  What brought Nick to Oregon? Where did Nick go to school?  Given that he's a police detective, he should have at least a bachelor's degree (in Oregon, the PD's hire college graduates, usually who have degrees in criminal justice or sociology or psychology, and then the police department sends them to the academy).  Why didn't he and Marie have a lot of contact once he became an adult?

 

You're right...we know the least of his backstory of any of the characters.  Well, no...we know less about Juliette.  But shouldn't the two characters who have the most developed backstories be the lead and his romantic partner?

 

 

I'm just confused on why Adalind gets a murder pass and Juliette doesn't. Are hexenbiests responsible for their actions or not? I feel like the writers are trying to say everything bad Adalind did was because she was a hexenbiest but a lot if the evil stuff she did, she did as a human. A plain ole human.

Juliette on the other hand didn't ask for anything that happened to her. She was turned into a hexenbiest against her will and I still don't understand why suddenly that made her evil.

The writers only had her burn down the trailer and kill Nuck's mother to make her death more acceptable.

I didn't always love or like Juliette but I think it's sad that she's the ultimate casualty of Adalind's machinations and no one cares.

 

This is what bothers me the most about this show.  Well, the 2nd most (the rape thing is still the worst, but it does tie into this).  Why is there such a disparity between the way Adalind is treated and the way Juliette is treated.  I could understand it if it were the other way--if Adalind is constantly being punished for her bad decisions, but Juliette was give a pass because "the biest made her do it."  It would be lame, but it at least would have been supported by everything that had been presented in the show so far.

 

Instead, we get the exact opposite, which not only makes no sense on every level, but is also insulting to the fans who take the show more seriously (instead of claiming that they are a "true" fan because they choose to like WHATEVER the show does.   Side eye at all of you over on FB....)

 

I think this is why I'm okay if we get back to Nick and Juliette.  I mean, I liked them before the second half of season 4, although I will admit that they shoehorned Juliette into places in the plot where she didn't belong--but also didn't use her as they could have, so there is that.  But it would be bad storytelling to put them back together after what they did to Juliette in Season 4b--but not nearly as bad as the beatification of St. Adalind.

Edited April 3, 2016 by OtterMommy