Killian Jones/Captain Hook: One Handed Pirate With A Drinking Problem

[HoodlumSheep]

^ ah, the good ol' days. Such simpler times then.

[FierceAfroChick]

Remember how happy he was after their kiss in Neverland then that little shit Peter Pan brought him back to earth saying Emma wouldn't want to be with him so he starts drinking and brooding. lol

 

Yes!  One minute he's Swagger!Hook and the next minute he's Captain Lost Boy.  Baby has got some self-esteem issues.

[Curio]

I get why people are nervous (myself included) about how the writers are going to handle Dark One Hook, and I also get why some fans are going to automatically hate Hook for whatever evil things he does (even though he didn't want to become evil again and had his personality altered despite his pleading). If you think about it, the writers are actually doing for Hook what they should have done with Regina—they're finally making him face his worst personality traits and are forcing him to defeat his inner demons on his own in the hardest way possible. Hook being forced to drive the darkness out of him is about as heavy-handed the writers can get for making this a huge metaphor about Hook officially crossing over from villain to hero. I've been harsh on the writers a lot over the years, but this time, I'm actually really excited for what they've set up with Hook. If they execute it well, it will be amazing. If they don't, I'll consider quitting the show.

 

Just about the only thing that has me optimistic about this storyline is Emma's total belief that Hook will be able to defeat the darkest magic known in the Once universe. We could parallel the dagger scene in "Operation Mongoose Part II" and the Excalibur scene in "Birth" and notice the different reactions on Emma's part. In both scenes, she's technically trying to save someone who's on the verge of death. But in one scene, she doesn't even humor the option of believing that another person could take on the Dark One and win, so she sacrifices herself thinking she's the only possible person who can do it because she's the Savior. But with Hook, the Savior is willing to believe that he'll be able to overcome the darkness, so much so that she makes him a Dark One without his consent.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

Yeah, I don't think the writers are going to trash Hook, or anything like that. They have taken great care in building him. He doesn't think he can beat this. This is about him taking that final step into "hero" territory. 

 

In some weird way, I'm glad that he gets to be the Dark One because I think it will allow him to completely let go of his anger, his doubts about himself, the feeling of not good enough, not enough, and everything that falls in between.

 

They've dealt with Emma's self-doubt regarding everything she is. Now they're doing the same thing with him.

[HoodlumSheep]

^ I'm not too worried about Darth Killian's handling either. I'm more concerned about it being rushed. They have 2 episodes to deal with this unless some of it carries over to the next season. I just don't want it to be rushed like 4x11 or 4x22 (the latter 1/2 of 4x22 was choppy as all et out with how much stuff they crammed in the last 20 minutes).

So really, I'm praying for decent episode pacing for the last 2 episodes. Imagine if we lucked out and got the same pacing we did in Birth for both of the next episodes.

[YaddaYadda]

I don't know how rushed it will be, especially since 5x11 is setting up an upcoming arc that has to do with Hook.

 

4x11 was rushed because they introduced the QoD. 4x11 as an episode made no sense at all. But the build-up this season seems to be holding like the writers actually planned this.

[Shanna Marie]

I just really love how he's been set up since the beginning as this particularly vexing and  tenacious enemy of the Dark One, and now it's come down to mano a mano, Killian vs. the darkness literally within him.  *cue deep narration voice* "And only one is going to make it out of this alive."  This is a fight he's been unknowingly preparing for his entire life.  I don't think this particular battle is one he'd ever willingly take on, but there is truly no one else better suited to do it. And a hero does what no one else will.  That's heavy.

From your keyboard to God's/the writers' ears. They seem to have set it all up perfectly, that Hook thinks he's not strong enough to fight the darkness because he's gone dark in the past, but the truth is he's also beaten the darkness in the past, so he may be better equipped than anyone to be able to fight this off. He may have been inspired by Emma, but when he did the hard part of the work in turning himself around, he did it utterly alone. He didn't have anyone cheerleading him with speeches about what a good heart he must have, deep down inside. He didn't get hailed as a hero for refraining from murdering someone. He hasn't been praised and coddled. People haven't walked on eggshells around him. Even while he was trying to be good, he was suspected of having bad motives. He's been judged and criticized every step of the way. Emma didn't even get in his corner and start trying to encourage him with talk about him not being the man he used to be and having a mark or two in the hero column until 4B. He was utterly alone and a prisoner when he had his initial "revenge isn't worth it" epiphany. He was utterly alone on his ship when his conscience caught up with him and he made the decision to literally and metaphorically turn himself around. He's been able to work alongside his greatest enemy toward a common goal, has befriended his greatest enemy's greatest fan, hasn't grown bitter at the people who continue to doubt him, has atoned for at least one of his past wrongs -- even after that person tried to kill him. He understands enough about how the draw of darkness works to talk Emma back from the brink repeatedly, and he knows all the coping strategies that help him that he's been able to apply to her. Even when he tried to backslide into darkness, when he had no hope, his conscience wouldn't let him go all the way and he made a comeback. When he was turned into a coward in the AU, he still found his courage and was willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good, with total faith that Emma could fix it all. He's held true to his new convictions even while being the Dark One, without anyone noticing anything different about him. He may not realize it, but he's got this.

 

Now, the hope is that the writers actually realize this and are doing it on purpose and this isn't just another case of them being idiot savants, setting up something absolutely brilliant and failing to see it or use it.

[InsertWordHere]

You people are giving me so much Hook feels right now, and I already had a whole bunch of Hook feels. Never stop. 

OMG…he drowns himself in the self-loathing.  He has teeny-tiny moments of “I am a good man”, but then starts doubting himself when he faces the really tough tests.  When he got his hand back last season and starting buying that nonsense about it being evil, I couldn’t believe he let himself be suckered like that.  If he comes out of this with increased self-love and self-worth, than I will be very happy with this Dark Hook arc.

I think this will be like the evil hand arc. He is so convinced he will go evil that it has become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Hopefully, we will get what we didn't get with the hand plot, Hook's realization that it's not your hand in a jar or the darkness that make you evil, it's what you choose to do with the power you have available to you. In the words of Emma Swan: "People are gonna tell you who you are your whole life. You just gotta punch back and say, 'No, this is who I am.' You want people to look at you differently? Make them!" Hook can't let his self-loathing, the voices in his head, Regina or Snowing or anyone else tell him who he is. 

[YaddaYadda]

On my end, I keep going to this;

 

Someday, perhaps, there will be a person who's worthy to hold that much power and not let it burn through to darken their soul.  But if we can wipe out the darkness, we'll never have to ask that much of anyone.

 

 

I think this is important. For all its faults, this show doesn't just do lines like that. And going back through all the episodes, the dialogue is coming full circle.

[PixiePaws1]

On my end, I keep going to this;

I think this is important. For all its faults, this show doesn't just do lines like that. And going back through all the episodes, the dialogue is coming full circle.

i think you're absolutely right...and this might be the loophole they need to get him out of the UW.

[oliverwendell]

 

 

On my end, I keep going to this;

I think this is important. For all its faults, this show doesn't just do lines like that. And going back through all the episodes, the dialogue is coming full circle.

i think you're absolutely right...and this might be the loophole they need to get him out of the UW.

 

I'm confused. First of all, I think it's Emma who's being foreshadowed here as the one who can control the dark without it eating up all the light, or at most the two of them working together. But even if it were Hook alone, how would that be a Get Out of Jail Free card for the UW?

[YaddaYadda]

I'm confused. First of all, I think it's Emma who's being foreshadowed here as the one who can control the dark without it eating up all the light, or at most the two of them working together. 

 

That's what I thought too, but Merlin didn't see to think Emma could do it. But Merlin is also shady AF, so who knows.

[oliverwendell]

Merlin is shady AF, but so, so pretty.

 

I agree that line has got to be in there for a reason: somebody is going to be able to do it. I just don't think it will be Hook. I hope it will be Emma, with Hook's help and support, so it will be almost as though they do it together (i.e., she couldn't have done it without him).

Edited November 20, 2015 by oliverwendell

[Curio]

I'm confused. First of all, I think it's Emma who's being foreshadowed here as the one who can control the dark without it eating up all the light, or at most the two of them working together.

 

I thought Merlin was referring to Emma with that line, too. As much as I love Hook, I also love Emma and she should be the true protagonist of this story and become the person who can ultimately hold that much power and not let it tarnish her soul. This is her story; Hook just happens to play an important role in it at the moment, and he'll no doubt play a large role in helping Emma.

 

On a different note, I just have to say how awesome it is to watch Hook's twisted version of the Hero's Journey unfold at the moment. Naïve Lieutenant Jones wanted to go on a Hero's Journey with his older brother, most likely because he was swayed by the royal navy's propaganda about how "real men" are soldiers and fight for their homeland, have honor, and "good form." So he goes on an adventure with his brother thinking that would make him a hero and that he'd be rewarded by his king, but then life throws him a big twist and Liam dies. And then Milah dies. Flash forward a couple hundred years later and he's finally given the opportunity to finish off his Hero's Journey, except he doesn't even recognize it as one because he has so much self-loathing, and a big part of Hook still thinks he's more defined by his past actions as a villain than his current actions as a hero.

 

Ironically, Emma forcing Hook to become the Dark One—the ultimate villain in the Once universe—is also kind of the first step of his official Hero's Journey cycle. Right now, Hook is in Part I of the Hero's Journey: Call to Adventure. (There are probably a lot of different variations of the Hero's Journey out there, so I just happen to be using this website's interpretation.) In Part I, there are three steps:

   Step 1. The Ordinary World

   Step 2. The Call to Adventure

   Step 3. Refusal

 

In "Birth," we see Hook at home in his normal world (Step 1) when Emma finally accepts his future with him and they're ready to move forward together as a legitimate couple who are looking at their futures long-term. Emma is Hook's home, and the fact that Emma finally admitted she wanted Hook in her future meant that he was finally at home in the world. That small smile he gives Emma right before she unites the blades is the last normal and happy moment before all hell breaks loose. Then, we have The Call to Adventure (Step 2) where Emma comes up with the plan to transform him into a new Dark One in order to save his life. This is definitely not the kind of adventure Hook wants to go on, so he adamantly refuses (Step 3). Hook has made it well known that Emma is his happy ending, and I honestly believe in his final moments he felt that Emma living a life free of darkness inside her was worth much more than his own life. But he obviously underestimated how much Emma wants and needs Hook in her future, and thus Dark One Hook is born.

 

Once Emma tethers Hook to Excalibur and he becomes the Dark One, he begins Part II of the Hero's Journey: Supreme Ordeal/Initiation. 

   Step 4. Mentor Helper

   Step 5. Crossing the Threshold

   Step 6. Test/Allies/Enemies

 

In this section, Hook will come across a mentor or guide on his journey (Step 4). Of course, becoming the Dark One means that Hook will automatically receive some great mentors who are more than willing to pester him in his head. I'm curious to see which Dark One will appear in Hook's mind, but the show would be insane to not use Sparkly Rumple as the perfect evil mentor to lure Hook back to the side of villainy. Now, the rest of the steps in the Hero's Journey will be determined in future episodes, but we'll most likely see Hook cross the point of no return (Step 5) in becoming the Dark One in the next episode, and we'll obviously see him tested and make some unlikely allies and enemies along the way (Step 6).

 

What I'm most curious about is whether or not the writers are going to wrap up his journey in two episodes for the 5A finale, or if they're going to stretch it out into 5B. Personally, I'd like to see the show actually spend some time on this because they've been building up Hook's story for several seasons now, and this is probably as good as it's going to get in terms of sheer "epicness," so I want them to do it right. If we keep following the steps of the Hero's Journey, we still have to do: Approach, Ordeal, Reward, Road Back, Atonement, and Return. I just don't think the writers can properly do all of those steps justice before the end of this half season, and I really cannot handle another 4x11 situation. Especially since the writers have created such a unique twist on the Hero's Journey by forcing the "hero" to become the ultimate villain before he can return back to being a hero again.

 

Seriously, show. Please don't fuck this up.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Curio

[Shanna Marie]

I think it's Emma who's being foreshadowed here as the one who can control the dark without it eating up all the light, or at most the two of them working together.

I'm thinking that it would have to be the two of them together. No one person can do it, but two people together who have a great deal of love might be able to. There are all kinds of loopholes with these two. Neither of them killed to become the Dark One -- which has to be utterly unique in the history of Dark Ones. Emma took it on as a sacrifice, and it was done to Hook as an act of love. That has to be meaningful.

 

But I must say, if they screw this up, it might be the final straw for me with this show. It's supposed to be a show about hope, but how can it be when people who try to be good are tortured for it and dragged through the mud? If they've taken Hook's redemption arc so far, making him work for it each step of the way over the course of years and then pull the rug out from under him and force him into darkness and don't have some kind of redemption come out of it, if he's just bad again, then I will probably pull a very public and noisy flounce.

[Rumsy4]

 

Personally, I'd like to see the show actually spend some time on this because they've been building up Hook's story for several seasons now, and this is probably as good as it's going to get in terms of sheer "epicness," so I want them to do it right.

 

As much as I hate the prospect of extended Captain Swan angst, I too would love for 5B to focus more on Hook's hero's journey. Emma has finally come to a place where she has learned to give and receive love from her son, her parents, and her friends. She also learned to love and accept herself. The hardest wall of all--that of romantic love--also came down in Camelot, and Hook played a large role in that. But Hook himself has remained mostly reserved and self-loathing. He needs to love himself as well, in order to be an equal partner to Emma. He is great at giving unconditional support and encouragement, but has not learned to receive it yet for himself. 

Edited November 20, 2015 by Rumsy4

[Lieutenant]

Curio, I would like to frame that post and put it on my wall.  

 

Seriously, show. Please don't fuck this up.

And all the people said, 'AMEN!'

 

It's moments and story lines like this one with Hook that make me remember why I love(d) Once (is it weird that I feel like Killian talking to Dark!Swan right now?!) in the first place.  For me, it's the way these stories can inspire and totally light my imagination.  I mean, just look at this thread.  We are rollin' in the Hook speculations/metas/feels, and they are moments, and exciting, and meaningful.  It's so, so close to becoming something truly epic for this show and character.  I want to hope so baldy that the writers will deliver, but man, I will crash and burn with disappointment if they 4.11 this arc.  I am totally failing at finding my chill over this whole season, and the large amount of screen time and significant impact to the story that Hook's had.  So, yeah. The hopes, they are riding high right now...

[Faemonic]

I caught up on the Dark Hook episode, and ooh snap yeah we totally should have known all along that Hook had gone to the dark side! I mean, he's been short-tempered, impulsive, obsessive, brooding, had the evil stubble, wore black leather all the time...

 

Basically, he's been acting like himself.

[Shanna Marie]

You know what we need right now? Ariel to show up, give Dark Hook a good slap and tell him with that slightly ditzy, matter-of-fact air, as though it's the most obvious thing in the universe, "You may be the Dark One, but that doesn't mean you have to be evil. You just have to choose to do good things." That'll do the trick. She's usually the best at cutting through the haze of emotion and self-loathing to make him see sense.

[Faemonic]

You know what we need right now? Ariel to show up, give Dark Hook a good slap and tell him with that slightly ditzy, matter-of-fact air, as though it's the most obvious thing in the universe, "You may be the Dark One, but that doesn't mean you have to be evil. You just have to choose to do good things." That'll do the trick. She's usually the best at cutting through the haze of emotion and self-loathing to make him see sense.

I don't know, couldn't Killian suddenly going "grr" at Dark Emma just be a ruse? Zelena was being plenty annoying before they left off. If he's really doing a 180 all of a sudden, then yes, I hope his foster sister Ariel slaps him halfway to 0.

[HoodlumSheep]

Yes. Where is Ariel when Hook needs her no-nonsenseness the most?

[kitticup]

Tink also takes no nonsense from hook. I would love aside adventure with Hook Ariel and Tink.

[OnceUponAJen]

Colin should do a charity t-shirt of Dark Hook. I would buy the heck out of that. I already have the Dark Swan shirt; I need a matched set!

[Souris]

Colin should do a charity t-shirt of Dark Hook. I would buy the heck out of that. I already have the Dark Swan shirt; I need a matched set!

 

 

There is a charity T-shirt of regular Hook, for a charity his brother is involved with. I think the sale is practically over, though, so get it now if you want it!

[OnceUponAJen]

There is a charity T-shirt of regular Hook, for a charity his brother is involved with. I think the sale is practically over, though, so get it now if you want it!

Oh, I got that one. I need Dark Hook too.

I think Dark Hook Funko would be great :) I'm all about the merchandise.

Edited November 22, 2015 by OnceUponAJen

[october]

I want to give the writers kudos for that scene in the recent episode where Killian explained the significance of his rings to Emma. I'm not suggesting he remembers absolutely every person he's killed, but that he recalls so much so vividly and that he makes sure to keep reminders of who he used to be (the rings on his hand, the sword he used to threaten pre-Dark One Rumple etc.) rather than shrug them off now he has a fresh start gives me hope that the storyline will work out.

 

It also creates another point of comparison between his redemption arc and Regina's. Regina is surrounded on all sides by her former victims but you wouldn't know it based on how she treats them and how indignantly she behaves when people call her out.

Edited November 22, 2015 by october

[InsertWordHere]

It also creates another point of comparison between his redemption arc and Regina's. Regina is surrounded on all sides by her former victims but you wouldn't know it based on how she treats them and how indignantly she behaves when people call her out.

Regina kept a whole town full of trophies. Rumple kept a both a shop and a dark castle full of trophies, some of them still living and trapped in urns or dolls. It makes sense that Hook, the pirate, would keep his plunder and that now he keeps them as reminders of what he was.

[YaddaYadda]

I want to give the writers kudos for that scene in the recent episode where Killian explained the significance of his rings to Emma. I'm not suggesting he remembers absolutely every person he's killed, but that he recalls so much so vividly and that he makes sure to keep reminders of who he used to be (the rings on his hand, the sword he used to threaten pre-Dark One Rumple etc.) rather than shrug them off now he has a fresh start gives me hope that the storyline will work out.

 

I thought that was such a moment of growth. 

 

I thought the most interesting thing is that he didn't wear his brother's ring, probably because he doesn't feel he is at that place in his life where he should be allowed to wear it, or even think about wear it. 

 

When you don't feel worthy, you just don't.

[Curio]

I want to give the writers kudos for that scene in the recent episode where Killian explained the significance of his rings to Emma. I'm not suggesting he remembers absolutely every person he's killed, but that he recalls so much so vividly and that he makes sure to keep reminders of who he used to be (the rings on his hand, the sword he used to threaten pre-Dark One Rumple etc.) rather than shrug them off now he has a fresh start gives me hope that the storyline will work out.

Besides the retcon about Barnaby calling Hook "One-Handed Jones" when we've seen Killian wear his ring when he still had two hands, I liked that moment as well. I particularly like it because it verified the headcanon I've had about Hook's character for a while now. I had to dig back to December 2014 to find this particular discussion in this thread:

 

I would be interested to see if [Hook] remembers his killing, murdering, thieving, etc., versus say Regina who couldn't even remember having Marian arrested or killed.

Hook probably has enough of a conscience to remember every person he's ever killed (and that list is probably short, so it wouldn't be too difficult to only remember ≈ 2-9 people) and all the details that led up to it as well.

One of the few times a personal theory of mine has been verified on screen. (Hey, maybe some of the writers have finally discovered our forums?)

[Shanna Marie]

For a moment, I found myself thinking that Clarence (Hook's mythical guardian angel/fairy godfather) had fallen down on the job, since Hook was actually dying, but then I realized that no, he hadn't. Why else would Emma have felt driven to resort to drastic means to keep Hook alive? And now that Hook's immortal (at least temporarily) I hope poor Clarence is getting to take a little time off. Enjoy an afternoon at the beach with an umbrella drink, buddy, because I suspect you're about to be really busy, since your charge will probably be even more full of self-loathing and even more self-destructive.

[Jul 68]

I wonder if Hook (and Emma) has the memories of previous DOs. If he does, he'll be pretty pissed at what Rumple did to Smee. But then again, the writers would have to remember too.

[Shanna Marie]

I wonder if Hook (and Emma) has the memories of previous DOs. If he does, he'll be pretty pissed at what Rumple did to Smee. But then again, the writers would have to remember too.

I thought he already knew. In the Missing Year, Smee was talking about missing some aspects of being a rat while being glad to be human again, and then during the time travel adventure, current Hook, posing as past Hook, stopped Smee from killing a rat and said he'd understand later.

 

But I don't think Hook would be all that upset. He holds Smee in great disdain.

[HoodlumSheep]

I wonder if Hook (and Emma) will retain all the knowledge from the previous DOs after they inevitably vanquish the darkness. Because then they'd never be allowed to question or act surprised about future magical encounters, because they should have the knowledge about it. Because Rumple still has all his knowledge.

Edited November 23, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[YaddaYadda]

It was mentioned in passing in 3x17. When Emma goes to find Hook, Smee is just leaving, and she asks him if he didn't used to be a rat. Hook replied that in many aspects, he still is.

 

I don't think Hook ever gave much of a rat's ass about Smee. He served his purpose in finding rare objects, and I think that's where it started, and ended for him. 

[pezgirl7]

What's more sickening is that Hook could have Rumple's memories of killing Milah. Yes, Hook was there, but now he'd have a different set of memories and emotions from her death. I suppose he could even "remember" almost crushing his own heart. That could get complicated. LOL

[Curio]

For a moment, I found myself thinking that Clarence (Hook's mythical guardian angel/fairy godfather) had fallen down on the job, since Hook was actually dying, but then I realized that no, he hadn't.

 

Not going to lie, when they first revealed Liam's ring in "Nimue," I immediately named the ring Clarence. Thanks, Previously.TV.

 

I don't think Hook ever gave much of a rat's ass about Smee.

 

Please tell me this was pun intended.

[YaddaYadda]

Please tell me this was pun intended.

What do you think ;)

[pezgirl7]

Just watched the OUAT promo shown during the AMAs. They called Hook Emma's "one true love". That put a smile on my face, especially after the stinker of the NASCAR championship race earlier.

[Faemonic]

What's more sickening is that Hook could have Rumple's memories of killing Milah. Yes, Hook was there, but now he'd have a different set of memories and emotions from her death. I suppose he could even "remember" almost crushing his own heart. That could get complicated.

Too complicated. On this show, everyone would probably be like "Who's Milah? Is that like a Graham? Who's Graham?"

[Panopticon]

I thought that was such a moment of growth. 

 

I thought the most interesting thing is that he didn't wear his brother's ring, probably because he doesn't feel he is at that place in his life where he should be allowed to wear it, or even think about wear it. 

 

When you don't feel worthy, you just don't.

 

I loved the touch of him not wearing Liam's ring as well, although I interpreted it differently. I didn't see it so much as a worthiness issue (although Hook certainly has those) as a compartmentalization issue. The trophy rings are on his hand in plain sight as reminders. His beloved brother's ring was privately hanging around his neck and close to his heart. 

[mjgchick]

I find it hilarious that both Hook and Emma has denied being sentimental but the only stuff they keep safe are the ones that means more like Emma's blanket, her ring Ingrid gave her, Bealfires sword, and now Liam's ring. Mean while he displays the rings of the times where he was at his worse. Not sentimental my ass.

[HoodlumSheep]

^ don't forget Baelfire's robe too. Although he seemed to have parted with it. didn't Wendy take it? or at least, she had it last. Yes. They're both sentimental.

Edited November 23, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Rumsy4]

I was thinking of how in Emma's book, giving false hope is worse than giving no hope. Was Hook guilty of unintentionally giving Emma false hope? He kept promising her that he was a Survivor, but is really rather reckless when it comes to taking risks. Was that reckless belief in his survivor skills partly borne out of a confidence in his special ring? If so, when he handed that ring over to Emma, should he have been a little more careful about taking risks so he could keep his promise to Emma?

For example, if Hook had straight away clocked Arthur instead of falling into the trap of verbally taunting him first, he may not have been mortally nicked by the broken fragment of Excalibur (about which Merlin warned no one I grant).

Hook talked down all of Emma's fears about the future, and inspired so much faith, but he was unable to keep his own promise. It's clear that he himself had great faith in their future, so I don't accuse him of lying. But this fairy-tale like hope in a happy ending seems out of place when not supported by a belief in a higher power or a benevolent universe.

Whether one is religious or not, in the Real World, we all know that "sh*t happens". I get OUAT is fictional and has its own rules (hah). In the LotR, we are not ultimately shocked that Frodo and Aragorn and Gandalf are successful in their quests, because the Valar and Eru are looking out for them. Star Wars has a mysterious Force which needs to be in balance. Dumbledore is pulling strings behind the scenes in the HP-verse. But what drives the hope of characters like Snow White, Hook, and even, Henry? There seems no justification for their optimism, especially considering all the horrible things that keep happening to the "good" guys.

So, was Hook's confidence in their future solely dependent on his belief in Emma? Is that why he gave up when the onus fell on his own abilities to withstand Darkness? Why did he give up on their future together after promising to never stop fighting for it? Maybe the lesson Hook needs to learn is to accept hope and trust, not just give it. He needs to have a fairy-tale like faith in the combined strenght of his relationship with Emma. Not that I can blame him for not wanting to become a Dark One, but it did seem like he gave up rather too easily, when he had a responsibility to Emma after all the promises he gave her.

[Camera One]

I don't think he gave up too easy.  Prolonging life by becoming the Dark One was not natural and could very well lead to other peoples' death.  He was potentially preventing the creation of another mass murderer.  It was like expecting Daniel to continue to live his life as a zombie.  Hook did the right thing.  Though I could just imagine all the handwringing if the writers had just killed Hook off at the end of that episode.  I wonder how the fans would have handled that.

 

The whole hope thing is an excellent point.  There is no indication why Snow has so much hope and with the multiple personality disorder the writers gave her, she has shown zero hope all of 5A.  Hope for Emma to win over the Dark One I think is easier to believe in, because Emma is the so-called Savior with so much light magic.  If anyone was an exception, she would be it.  I suppose one could fanwank that without Emma, Snow has lost all hope.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Camera One

[Curio]

Hook talked down all of Emma's fears about the future, and inspired so much faith, but he was unable to keep his own promise. It's clear that he himself had great faith in their future, so I don't accuse him of lying. But this fairy-tale like hope in a happy ending seems out of place when not supported by a belief in a higher power or a benevolent universe.

 

Hook's situation is like the equivalent of someone randomly getting into a car accident. You can't blame your fiancé for ditching out on your wedding just because he happened to get t-boned at an intersection a week before the big day. Sometimes, life is cruel and random like that, and there's no way we can plan each day thinking, "I'll meet you for lunch tomorrow, unless lightning randomly strikes me and I die. In which case, we'll just cancel those plans." Hook honestly felt like he could have that white picket fence life with Emma; it's not his fault he randomly got a paper cut from a magical sword.

[HoodlumSheep]

Hook could have been more careful had Merlin given them some warning about getting knicked by a magical 1/2 sword. But that's Merlin for ya.

[YaddaYadda]

Hook is a survivor as much as Emma is. I mean it's shitty that a cut is what did him in, but the future is not guaranteed. Shit happens all the time, and life holds by a thread. The kind of lives Emma and Hook lead, I'd be expecting the other shoe to drop at any time.

 

I think mainly what Hook was trying to get at is that they can't put their lives on hold because shit hits the fan every other minute. If they do that, they'll never have a future, no matter how frightening the concept may be. This is all about living life in the moment, and without regret, which is something Emma has expressed before after he died in the AU, that she was so scared of telling him she loved him, so scared that this changed things between them that she said nothing at all.

 

For me, Emma is Hook, and Hook is Emma, in the sense that they both have the very same issues. For 3 seasons Hook has been the one to prop Emma's up with her emotional upheavals, her ups and downs with her magic, the things that happened with her family. He's been shown to believe in her, and the things she can do/accomplish. 

 

And when she told him that they could beat the darkness together, she wasn't coming from a place of being a naive person, because he helped her beat the darkness back several times. So why couldn't she do the same for him? Because she sure as hell believe she can.

 

Emma is about to really meet Hook's walls.

 

All of this though? One person to blame. Merlin. Merlin is all kinds of pretty, but Merlin is all kinds of misguided, and manipulative. And how freakin' high were Nimue's walls that he couldn't even get a glimpse of anything when it came to her? When you can't figure out what a person is even thinking, maybe you shouldn't tell them about the magical cup that gives you magic, and immortality.

Edited November 24, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[YaddaYadda]

I started not even paying attention to this stuff, because most characters have done some reprehensible things.

 

Hook, Regina, Rumple, Zelena should be rotting away in jail for murder.

Snowing should be rotting away in jail for kidnapping.

 

At this point, calling some of the characters serial killers, mass murderers is like barking at the wind. Some people are serious about this, and for others this talk is purely agenda driven. 

 

Five seasons in, I'm just going whatever...most of Storybrooke should be under arrest from the looks of it.

[Faemonic]

I actually suspect that Hook was just making it up to make Emma feel better about being Dark Swan.

 

I mean...we saw him wear the ring ostensibly from Barnaby "One-Handed Jones" when he had two hands.

 

Show me a flashback where he's gutting Skylights for ruffling the cravat that Hook never wears, and maybe then I'll believe him.

[Shanna Marie]

He may or may not have been making up his past deeds, but it would be totally in character for him to leave out any context that might make him look better, like that one of these people was coming at him with a sword when calling him a name or drank his wine while holding a knife to his throat.