Killian Jones/Captain Hook: One Handed Pirate With A Drinking Problem

[YaddaYadda]

If anything, Colin must be excited to play the "evil" role again. In his interviews, he always makes it seem like he has more fun playing the villainous side of Hook than the heroic side, even though he does both sides extremely well.

I think all actors enjoy that. JMo is saying that she loves playing Dark Swan. I think it's especially true with characters that are so far removed from the person's personality

[Souris]

I think all actors enjoy that. JMo is saying that she loves playing Dark Swan. I think it's especially true with characters that are so far removed from the person's personality

 

Oh, yeah, most actors do seem to relish playing the villainous characters more.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Souris

[LizaD]

 

I really hate the idea of Killian's character growth getting thrown overboard so easily. He has to find a way back to the light.

 

 

Hook is the villain who has taken the harder path time and time again.

 

Not this time. But probably not in the way everyone's thinking of. They took his character back because all this time he's been a fighter but now he just gave up. The harder path isn't dying cause he's too scared to face temptation again. The harder path is the one Emma wrongly forced him on, to face darkness and beat it but he didn't even want to get in the ring. And yes I get that he has his own fears and self-loathing etc. but he kept asking Emma to put her faith in him and their love and she did it. I'm not saying Emma was right to force him either, just that he could've made the choice himself.

 

But he didn't have enough faith in her, in their love or himself that they would be able to beat his darkness. He fought to get revenge and he fought for Emma but he won't for himself. That's probably his arc, the insecurity and finally believing he's a good man etc. but in my book, I side-eye the "I'm too scared the take on darkness" way more than him giving into the darkness itself. In that, they've written Emma, Rump and Hook to be alike, but I don't know if it's intentional. Those 3 are way more afraid of change and putting themselves out there than anything else, so they hold on to their old "insecurity" blanket like a lifeline.

[mjgchick]

I almost feel like we're giving the writers credit but hearing Rumple admit his cowardness, Emma admit she's afraid of what happens when she does move forward with Hook and Hook being afraid of not being strong enough to fight the darkness is actually pretty cool.

Hook has so much faith in Emma but he doesn't seem to have any in him. Similar to Hook having Imense faith in Emma but she not having any in her. Those two need to really talk about their self loathing.

[Dianthus]

I don't think I expressed myself very well earlier. I don't think the writers will sacrifice Hook's growth, even if that's how it's being presented in the preview. ITA that he needs to have more faith in himself. Clearly he wasn't "ready" (if such a thing is possible) for the darkness, having it forced on him in such a way, when he was so weakened. I doubt anyone could resist it in that case. Happily for us, he is nothing if not resilient. More than likely, he'll be "taking a page out of [Emma's] book" once more to sacrifice himself for the greater good.

[KAOS Agent]

I think that a lot of Emma's need for him to live came out of his own earlier words about trusting him and having faith in him and not being afraid of the future. He made a bunch of promises that he couldn't keep. All of this stuff was put forward to Emma to help her want to lose the Darkness. However, all of that is gone with Hook's death. Essentially, her removing the Darkness to get to their future is what killed him. How nice that everyone fights the good fight, chooses to do the right thing in giving up power & immortality and is immediately punished for it. Explain to me why it is that people should be good.

[Rumsy4]

I think that a lot of Emma's need for him to live came out of his own earlier words about trusting him and having faith in him and not being afraid of the future. He made a bunch of promises that he couldn't keep.

Agree. He helped break down so much of her "lost girl" walls, and Emma believed in him and their love so much. She couldn't accept the loss of all that future potential for happiness and home. His line, "Our future is now," chilled me. In that moment, he had no more hope to give Emma. That's when Emma realized she was going to lose him if she didn't take drastic action.

[mjgchick]

Emma did that bug eyed thing when he said he wanted to see her forge the sword and dagger together. I just want these two to be happy. We know Killians done awful things but shit he legit changed for the better. He didn't just gain Emma he gained her whole family. How is that fair? Emma just got everything she needed to destroy the darkness but of course nothing is easy for her. The writers keeps making it hard for me NOT to root for Emma or Killian. Both worked hard to be good people. I hope Hook can pull through. He's stronger than he thinks he is. It was just so sad to hear him say he couldn't defeat the darkness like Emma and Merlin. Colin did a wonderful job the whole episode and Jennifer broke my heart.

[KAOS Agent]

 

His line, "Our future is now," chilled me. In that moment, he had no more hope to give Emma.

 

This was the guy who previously had told Emma that he'd never stop fighting for them. It was really sad that everyone including Hook told Emma to give up without a fight. I just don't know. I hate how this came about because Emma is really terrible for forcing something like this on Hook, but on the other hand, what would it say if she did just give up on him? 

[PixiePaws1]

How nice that everyone fights the good fight, chooses to do the right thing in giving up power & immortality and is immediately punished for it. Explain to me why it is that people should be good.

..........*crickets*........l got nothing. ....they're handing out free redemption passes and happy endings to unrepentant villains down the hall, care to join in?

[YaddaYadda]

Maybe he's the vessel that can hold the darkness at the end of the day?

 

My friend woke up this morning, and sent me a text about how she realized that Merlin's warning to wee!Emma had nothing to do with Emma, and everything to do with Hook. Don't judge, we know we're sad.

 

A whole sword doesn't control anyone anymore as per Emma's dialogue to Arthur.

 

And they gave a timeline for Camelot.

 

Hook became a Dark One at the 3 week mark. So that leaves 3 more weeks of probably much fuckery.  I wonder if Emma didn't enchant something like his necklace to suppress his magic. It makes no sense that he wouldn't have had some kind of magical accident, especially when they've shown him be furious with Arthur for instance.

[mjgchick]

I wonder if Hook will just up and have magic or will he just fight Rumple forever how long because he knows Rumple can't kill him. Only one person can kill Hook and its the woman who loves him. God these writers are messy.

[YaddaYadda]

Hang on, didn't they mean "3 weeks ago" as in 3 weeks before the specific day it was in Storybrooke that we saw in the episode? If they were counting from the day everyone arrives back in Storybrooke, then it would be 3 weeks, but it's been a significant amount of time since then. The question is, how long has passed since they arrived back in Stroybrooke? How long Hook was the Dark One in Camelot for will depend on the answer. If they've been back a week, then he would have become the Dark One at the 4-week mark in Camelot, which would be "3 weeks ago". I'm going to stop now before this convoluted timeline gives me a headache.

 

 

Wait, I think you're right. I'm still working on my first coffee.

 

Shit must've hit the fan real fast.

[HoodlumSheep]

I wonder if Hook will just up and have magic or will he just fight Rumple forever how long because he knows Rumple can't kill him. Only one person can kill Hook and its the woman who loves him. God these writers are messy.

testing 1,2,3...if hook uses excalibur in the duel, what's stopping Gold from somehow getting a hold of the sword and then bam! slay the darkness. Maybe that's Darth Killy's plan. who knows. it's hard to tell

I feel like it's only been like, 3 days since they got back from Camelot. Belle was still in her red outfit, so 5x06-5x08 can kind of be within all of one day (or two). If anything, I feel like at most it's been only a week (if not less), since they returned.

I was wondering about his temper. I wonder if because he has such a quick temper anyways, that it could possibly set a higher threshold for showing accidental signs of magic. ? Does that make any sense? No? Okay, I'll stop.

Edited November 17, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Curio]

I wonder if Hook will just up and have magic

 

I don't know what they'll do with Dark One Hook's magic, but I want to see some scenes where he's totally perplexed by his new abilities. When Emma became the Dark One, she'd already been practicing with magic for a while and could do some basic spells on her own, and even she was surprised by some of the things she could do. Hook, on the other hand, has lived hundreds of years being non-magical and rolling his eyes at most magic that isn't Emma's. (Doing small things like enchanting his hook doesn't count.) He shouldn't be very good with his new magic at first. So, I need to see some comedic scenes where Hook accidentally teleports somewhere wrong or sets something on fire and freaks out. Come on writers, give us some levity in this really dim and dark arc. Please!

[mjgchick]

And isn't Emma still stronger than Hook? She better lock that down.

[InsertWordHere]

Hang on, didn't they mean "3 weeks ago" as in 3 weeks before the specific day it was in Storybrooke that we saw in the episode? 

I think so. Responding in the Continuity thread. 

[YaddaYadda]

And isn't Emma still stronger than Hook? She better lock that down.

The thing is, everything I thought they were going to use against Emma to turn her dark, ie her parents, her abandonment issues, and so on, they've used none of that. 

 

What drove Emma was loss.

 

But Hook? Vengeance, anger, and he's super angry right now...we don't know if he's used magic in Camelot or not. I still think the curse was a concerted effort between Emma and Hook though.

[mjgchick]

I'm trying to think about Merlin's voice mail. Was he saying the Dark One's or Dark Ones? Like was Dark Captain Swan double teaming him or was Emma or was it Killian since they made him question it. Plus I'm still intrigued by what else Zelena found out about Hooks memories.

[YaddaYadda]

That's a pretty good question, innit?

 

I think it's Dark Ones, and I think his whole let's find Nimue is totally legit. I think she managed to get rid of the darkness at one point.

[Curio]

Plus I'm still intrigued by what else Zelena found out about Hook's memories.

 

You just know that they're going to give Hook the idiot ball again, have Zelena trick him, and Hook will realize that he was more upset at Emma than he should have been. I'm guessing Zelena purposely stopped the dreamcatcher memory right at the point where Hook is revealed as the Dark One because there's a memory that follows where Emma and Hook actually have a touching moment in Camelot or something. So before Hook can see his other memories after the vault reveal, he becomes rash and wants to "take care of Emma" immediately following the cliffhanger of "Birth." (Whatever "take care of" means.) Zelena happily obliges, Hook does something to hurt Emma because he's angry and can't control his darkness, and then later on in the episode he'll finally watch the final memories and realize he's an idiot and overreacted. And then he'll be like, "Why didn't you show me these memories before, Zelena??" And then she'll be like "Do you even know me?"

 

Sorry for being pessimistic, y'all. Maybe they won't give him the idiot ball again. But I'm just rocking back and forth here whispering please don't ruin my favorite character over and over and over and over again...

[HoodlumSheep]

It just hit me that Hook could be seeing Mind!Rumple (in Camelot or now in present day) now that he's Darth Killian and 1/2 of his memories are back. don't know why it didn't really hit me before.

Mind!Rumple. Rumplestiltskin in his head. Rumple.

Someone whom he hates with the passion of a 1000 suns who could know all his thoughts and feelings, could be inside his head.

:( If he was seeing Mind!Rumple in Camelot, I can totally see why he would come back from the Camelot experience with a "180 degree-like" personality. Even though his rage doesn't bother me.

Edited November 17, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Curio]

Mind!Rumple. Rumplestiltskin in his head. Rumple.

Someone whom he hates with the passion of a 1000 suns who could know all his thoughts and feelings, could be inside his head.

 

There has to be some freaking painful mental torture going on. Hook will probably try to conjure up a new Dark One in his head, but the Rumple version will refuse to leave him alone and slowly drive him insane. I'm predicting that's how he goes off the deep end eventually, or maybe that's what gives Emma the idea to wipe everyone's memories.

[HoodlumSheep]

Oh, the potential pain! :'(

[mjgchick]

He probably does something Emma knows he'd hate himself for because she promised him that she'd help him fight the darkness but she failed him.

Oh the pain. :)

[RadioGirl27]

Sorry for being pessimistic, y'all. Maybe they won't give him the idiot ball again. But I'm just rocking back and forth here whispering please don't ruin my favorite character over and over and over and over again...

 

That makes the two of us. I'm really worried about what they are going to do with him, and about the total lack of pay-off at the end of it.

Edited November 17, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[sharky]

OK, one issue I noticed though. When they're brought back to Storybrooke, they're all wearing their Camelot clothes -- even Hook. So why is he wearing his Camelot get-up and not his Dark One get-up?

[YaddaYadda]

Zelena is also wearing her handmaiden outfit, complete with the cuff. I think it's the part of the surprise element. If Hook is dressed in his Dark One get up, and we get the Camelot flashbacks, then everyone will clue in on the fact that he might also be a Dark One.

[HoodlumSheep]

Zelena is also wearing her handmaiden outfit, complete with the cuff. I think it's the part of the surprise element. If Hook is dressed in his Dark One get up, and we get the Camelot flashbacks, then everyone will clue in on the fact that he might also be a Dark One.

I don't think it's necessary for Hook to have a new DO outfit. Look at Emma; she's the DO and she was wearing a pretty white dress (aka her designated Camelot outfit) through most of it. I could see Hook ditching the robe because it's not his style. So I can see him coming back from camelot in his regular camelot get up. That would just leave questions about Zelena.

Let' see:

-almost heart crushing by Cora and Rumple (2)

-drowning (3)

-AU! death (4)

-Excalibur wound (5)

-Milah jumped in front to save him from Rumple (6)

-almost skewered by icycles (7)

-ariel saved him from another almost drowning (8)

-almost got his shadow ripped out (9)

That's all of the major near-deaths for him about (also maybe almost being crushed by boulders?).

Basically, no wonder he was going to legit croak from the sword wound (if not for the tethering) All his 9 lives had been used up. :P yep, Darth Killian should totally have a cat motif (what would that even look like?).

Someone on tumblr mentioned how Darth Killian reminded them of Spiderman 3 Peter Parker with the hair. Oddly enough, the moment I had seen Hook's hair change in the promo, I pegged him as someone who'd listen to annoying pop songs in his evil freetime. And strangely enough, I'd totally be cool with it. The thought of a wannabe Darth Killian makes me chuckle.

Edited November 18, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[YaddaYadda]

I don't think it's necessary for Hook to have a new DO outfit. Look at Emma; she's the DO and she was wearing a pretty white dress (aka her designated Camelot outfit) through most of it. I could see Hook ditching the robe because it's not his style. So I can see him coming back from camelot in his regular camelot get up. That would just leave questions about Zelena.

But the distinction with Emma's outfits was that she hadn't embraced the darkness yet. The second she's done tethering Hook to the sword, her appearance changes.

 

Even when she came out of the vault, she was dressed in grey. 

 

I'm pretty sure they did that heavy cloak for maximum effect though.

[InsertWordHere]

What if Hook comes back to Camelot wearing his pirate outfit and pretending that he hasn't embraced the darkness, but he really has? Then Emma shows up dressed as the Dark One and everyone flips.

[Dianthus]

For DO Hook's spirit animal, I was thinking black panther: dark, lean, muscular, dangerous and sexy.

 

It hit me yesterday (yeah, I'm a bit slow) that Hook now has not one but two sets of memories that end with him being mortally wounded. Where the flip is Archie?!? That kinda shit'll really mess you up.

 

Once this is all over, these two deserve the Happiest Happy Ending in the entire freakin' history of Happy Endings! I'm talking bluebirds, rainbows, unicorns that fart glitter, the works.

[HoodlumSheep]

^ lol! Yes, they deserve the happiest of happy endings. Honestly, whether Darth Killian is secretly good or actually evil, being the DO probably was the final straw to make him snap. The dude's got just as many walls as Emma. And he's spent so much time helping Emma with her walls, that I feel like he's somewhat neglected himself. He still has some of the lowest self esteem ever. He needs an Emma/Elsa True-Love-Yourself moment. Where's Charming and Hood when you need them? Joking, although I wish we'd get a moment kind of like that in a way.

Edited November 18, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Mari]

, unicorns that fart glitter, the works.

How common are the unicorns? As enjoyable as this image is, we may want to skip them--think of all the vacuuming. Plus, it might give them Implestiltskin flashbacks.

I giggle every time I think about it, so thank you for the image!

[mjgchick]

^ lol! Yes, they deserve the happiest of happy endings. Honestly, whether Darth Killian is secretly good or actually evil, being the DO probably was the final straw to make him snap. The dude's got just as many walls as Emma. And he's spent so much time helping Emma with her walls, that I feel like he's somewhat neglected himself. He still has some of the lowest self esteem ever. He needs an Emma/Elsa True-Love-Yourself moment. Where's Charming and Hood when you need them? Joking, although I wish we'd get a moment kind of like that in a way.

Emma telling him she'd help him face the darkness right before he passes out tells me she'd be the one doing the "You have to love yo self."

All though it was nice when David put his hand under Hooks head so he doesn't get a concussion. :(

[InsertWordHere]

David immediately asked "Hook, what's wrong?" and started to cross the room to get to him. I can't wait to see David's reaction to Hook as Dark One. 

 

Emma telling Hook she'll help him face the darkness and they can do it together is all kinds of heartbreaking when I think of Tallahassee and "I can't take the chance that I'm wrong about you." 

[YaddaYadda]

Emma telling Hook she'll help him face the darkness and they can do it together is all kinds of heartbreaking when I think of Tallahassee and "I can't take the chance that I'm wrong about you."

 

It's such a reversal from Tallahassee, and she's now the one who is saying that they can do this together. That was always him before, supportive, and reassuring. 

 

The roles have officially been reversed.

[Dianthus]

OMFG you guys! Did you know that Hook was totally a villain in s2? It's like I'd completely forgotten until some kindly soul posted a reminder in another thread! Honestly, these people. No one here disputes that Hook was a bad man who did bad things. Harumph!

[HoodlumSheep]

Lol. Yep. At least he actually regrets stuff, though.

Someone needs to create a playlist for Darth Killian that's full of the most annoying pop songs ever. Thanks to that tumblr post, I can't unsee the S3 Peter Parker-esqueness. I need Darth Killy dancing down Storybrooke Mainstreet, or something like Evil Abed popping children's balloons. I need it guys. I need it.

Edited November 18, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Lieutenant]

So I had some thoughts on Killian's development this season, and overall.  I just really love how he's been set up since the beginning as this particularly vexing and  tenacious enemy of the Dark One, and now it's come down to mano a mano, Killian vs. the darkness literally within him.  *cue deep narration voice* "And only one is going to make it out of this alive."  This is a fight he's been unknowingly preparing for his entire life.  I don't think this particular battle is one he'd ever willingly take on, but there is truly no one else better suited to do it. And a hero does what no one else will.  That's heavy.

[mjgchick]

Here we all thought being in love with the Dark One was the worst for him. No wonder why he kept telling Emma you're also Emma but now he needs to tell himself that he's still the guy who changed for the better, he can be that guy his brother was so proud of. Emma can't do it by herself. Hook needs a "Conceal Don't Feel." moment himself. lol Elsa would be so proud.

[OnceUponAJen]

I keep thinking of when Emma first invited Hook inside her house. Her self-satisfied smile after he said, "You may think this is who you are, but it isn't who I am." takes on a whole new meaning! Also when she said "Now there's the pirate I know." Kind of cool in retrospect.

Edited November 19, 2015 by OnceUponAJen

[InsertWordHere]

I keep thinking of when Emma first invited Hook inside her house. Her self-satisfied smile after he said, "You may think this is who you are, but it isn't who I am." takes on a whole new meaning! Also when she said "Now there's the pirate I know." Kind of cool in retrospect.

I also think she was checking to see if he was dark in the scene in the diner in 5.1 when she turned to face him. She even took him out on the ocean because he told her it calms the demons in his head. All this time she's been worried the curse wouldn't work and he'd realize he's the Dark One. 

[RadioGirl27]

I'm in such a bad mood after reading the spoilers thread, and, surprisingly, not because if a spoiler but because of the double standards a part of this fandom has regarding Hook. The level of perfection is demanded from him is astonishing, to the point of saying that if he does something bad while he is the DO (something that he didn't want to be), he shouldn't be given a second chance. And this has been happening since the beginning. He is not allowed even the tiniest mistake. Regina can have 1244357458 million opportunities but he shouldn't have two.

Edited November 19, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[InsertWordHere]

I think people are just worried about what he'll do because they don't want him to be Regina. I love Captain Swan, but I'm a Hook fan because he's the only villain on a redemption path that I find believable. He's managed, through the actor's portrayal and sheer luck I think at this point, to not be ruined ever since he turned his ship around in 2.22. 

 

On another note, I've been thinking about Hook's 'tis but a scratch mortal wound and the way he bent backwards to avoid it and it's sad because he's preformed that move quite a few times in the show and has always managed to avoid getting nicked. It's also kind of funny to remember all the times he's had something sharp held to his neck. I know it's not deliberate foreshadowing, but it'll be weird to go back and rewatch those scenes now. 

[FierceAfroChick]

I'm cautiously optimistic about this new twist.  Hook needed a real test of his newfound hero status and becoming the thing he hates most is it.  So far, his wanting to be a better man has been all about Emma.  I need him to fight for his redemption for his own sake.  He kept telling Emma he was weak and wasn’t strong enough to handle the darkness, but I think this setback will prove that he’s stronger than he realizes and can save himself.  Dude keeps saying he’s a survivor, not sure why the Dark One curse should be any different from being nearly drowned, having his heart ripped out or being killed in an AU world.  And though it’s a sweet sentiment, I don’t think Liam’s ring has kept him alive all this time, I think it was that Killian Jones machismo.

 

And if he does something heinous, as long as he regrets and atones for it, he absolutely deserves a second chance.  If Emma can kiss the ass of the bitch that’s responsible for so much grief in her life (a bitch who doesn’t have the excuse of being cursed to be evil), she can sure as hell forgive her man for acts committed while under the influence of evil goo.

[HoodlumSheep]

That's why I think Hook needs a Frozen Swan True-Love-Yourself meant of some kind. It doesn't need to be as sappy or anything, but even with the leaps and bounds he's made, he still doesn't seem to 100% love himself.

Hook would have to massacre a village and send dozens of children to be eaten by the blind witch before I would ever consider him irredeemable. And it's funny, because he's cursed (so it's harder for him to resist temptation), while a certain nom-cursed someone did all that...

He can't get up to too much trouble. He's only been the DO for 3 wks. He's still a baby. Same with the Dark Swan. She's technically only 6 wks old. I know people are disappointed with how non-evil Emma's really been, but it took Rumple a decent amount of time to turn sparkly dark.

Anyways, from the promo it looks like Darth Killian is seeking revenge on Rumple. That's the only evil thing we currently know he's getting up to so far. So it's kind of hard to condemn him. Going after Rumple makes sense for his character, no matter if it's a bit repetitive. Since they called a truce on the Jolly, Rumple's tried to kill him. Plus all the usual baggage between them. Also, the possibility of him seeing Mind! Rumple in Camelot could also be a factor in why he seeks out revenge on Gold. If Mind!Rumple coerces him to do evil stuff in Camelot, maybe he blames Rumple. Except he may or may not be able to differentiate between "Hero" Gold and Mind!Rumple in his state.

You never know.

[mjgchick]

Its so sad that Emma's the only one who believes Hook can fight it. Everyone else just wanted her to give up on him. Him included. How can Hook give Emma all these talks about hope and doesn't expect her to do the same for him? He's so self loathing.

[FierceAfroChick]

OMG…he drowns himself in the self-loathing.  He has teeny-tiny moments of “I am a good man”, but then starts doubting himself when he faces the really tough tests.  When he got his hand back last season and starting buying that nonsense about it being evil, I couldn’t believe he let himself be suckered like that.  If he comes out of this with increased self-love and self-worth, than I will be very happy with this Dark Hook arc.

Edited November 19, 2015 by FierceAfroChick

[mjgchick]

Remember how happy he was after their kiss in Neverland then that little shit Peter Pan brought him back to earth saying Emma wouldn't want to be with him so he starts drinking and brooding. lol