Killian Jones/Captain Hook: One Handed Pirate With A Drinking Problem

[Souris]

So does anyone think that AU!Hook might've been close to whatever cursed personality he might've been given in Storybrooke if they had had Hook in season 1 or would Regina have been kinder to Hook seeing as she thought he had killed her mother for her or seeing as they were both considered villains at least?

 

I've always kind of thought that Hook would have been in Graham's role if they'd been able to get Hook for S1. Hook would have been the sheriff. When they couldn't get Hook, they created Graham as a stop-gap.

 

But that's just a theory.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Souris

[Faemonic]

I'm having a hard time thinking of Hook as an administrative assistant. That would be a slow death for someone with his personality. 

 

If Colin can play a cowardly deckhand possessed of antichemistry as skillfully as he did, then I can easily imagine that in a three-piece suit and tie.

 

And then the curse breaks and our free-spirited pirate realizes that he's been a pencil-pusher for some landlubber royal for almost three decades. A cog in an administrative machine. I imagine Hook would "Nooooo!!!" so long and loud that Nealfire would get over his daddy issues before Hook remembers to actually get around to hunting the Crocodile down.

 

I've always kind of thought that Hook would have been in Graham's role if they'd been able to get Hook for S1. Hook would have been the sheriff. When they couldn't get Hook, they created Graham as a stop-gap.

 

But that's just a theory.

 

In an A&E interview that I can't find anymore, they said that the original version was supposed to make the sheriff secretly Sherlock Holmes, and his "curse" was that there were no real mysteries to solve in town.

 

I'm so glad that they went with neither Hook nor Sherlock, because the overarching story was a retelling of Snow White and the role of the huntsman I think was significant to address. Or at least, I really really super liked the interactions that Graham/Huntsman and Mary Margaret / Snow had.

 

I also think it did the story a whole lot of good for the sheriff to die. Emma had to commit herself to her hometown, Regina had to show the real-world evil queen, and something really bad enough would have to happen for Henry to doubt that his quest would be worth it.

 

Personally, since Hook made his introduction at a time that the show had fairly firmly established that this is a world where Disney Princesses rule, I was able to see him as the underdog and his flirting as something he resorts to, and basically an interesting character that I liked to see more of precisely because he was just off in the margins. If that in all its glory had appeared in season one, I would have been on board with the Hook-haters.

[legaleagle53]

I've always kind of thought that Hook would have been in Graham's role if they'd been able to get Hook for S1. Hook would have been the sheriff. When they couldn't get Hook, they created Graham as a stop-gap.

 

But that's just a theory.

 

Which isn't all that far-fetched, actually, since, as Faemonic mentioned, Graham was originally supposed to have been Sherlock Holmes, whose role during the curse was to have been a detective with no mysteries to solve.  So if both Hook and Sherlock had been available to use as the writers had originally wanted to, your scenario might well have been exactly what we saw in Season 1.

 

Oh, by the way, Faemonic, you forgot the nerd glasses for Hook's administrative assistant.  I do wonder, however, how the Curse would have accounted for Hook's hook -- how would Killian have thought he'd gotten it?

Edited May 31, 2015 by legaleagle53

[OnceUponAJen]

Oh, by the way, Faemonic, you forgot the nerd glasses for Hook's administrative assistant. I do wonder, however, how the Curse would have accounted for Hook's hook -- how would Killian have thought he'd gotten it?

Having an actual hook in S1 would have been too much of a giveaway. Having one hand wouldn't have been that subtle either. He could have lost it in something as mundane as a car crash.

[Shanna Marie]

It sounds like a huge shift for Hook to be an assistant, but is it, really? For all his swagger, he's not very alpha. He certainly doesn't seem to have a problem being equal or second-fiddle to strong women. Look at what he's doing with Emma now -- he fetches her coffee and lunch (with her even quizzing him to make sure he properly anticipates her order), he babysits Henry, he runs errands, and he does research. He was Cora's errand boy, going around fetching things (and people) for her and providing transportation. So it's not too big a stretch to imagine that if he'd been caught in Regina's curse while Regina thought he was working for her, he might have spent the curse fetching coffee and lunch for Regina, handling her research and errands, and probably babysitting Henry and helping him with his homework.

 

The trick would be how the curse would have incorporated the fact that he'd been double-crossing Regina and was actually working for Cora -- would he have been the seemingly loyal assistant who was actually hating every moment of it and secretly doing what he could to sabotage her, and would have found a way to bring her down and get her out of office if he could have found anyone else willing to help? That would have been interesting when Emma came to town.

 

As for the hand/hook thing -- since the hand does exist and can be restored magically, maybe the curse would have restored it. Then his non-curse identity would have been a big mystery. Even Henry wouldn't have figured out that his babysitter/tutor was really Captain Hook.

[HoodlumSheep]

Randomly dropping in here for a second.

A few things I wished I would see happen with Hook in terms of interaction with other characters:

1. Help Grumpy restore/learn how to sail? his boat he had in season 1 so he could finally do what he dreamed to do with Nova (unless that pair is forever doomed to never set sail figuratively and literally).

2. Help Whale find his brother (with Ruby's help as well). I think they could bond over the whole brother thing.

I'm just thinking of things in terms of what story lines need to be finished up before the show ends, and I think Killy would be well-suited for these tasks.

[Curio]

As for the hand/hook thing -- since the hand does exist and can be restored magically, maybe the curse would have restored it. Then his non-curse identity would have been a big mystery. Even Henry wouldn't have figured out that his babysitter/tutor was really Captain Hook.

 

If Killian had his hand restored during the 28 years of Groundhog Days, it would have royally sucked when the curse was broken and he lost his hand again. Although, that could have lead to a big reveal to show he was actually Captain Hook and then the ensuing drama over losing his hand again. (Oh, wait...we actually had a storyline similar to this in "The Apprentice" and ​nothing came of it. TW;TW.)

[Shanna Marie]

If Killian had his hand restored during the 28 years of Groundhog Days, it would have royally sucked when the curse was broken and he lost his hand again.

The physical changes weren't reversed when the curse broke, only when it was reversed and they went back to the Enchanted Forest. Snow still had short hair (which went long again upon the return). Archie was still human. The dwarves still weren't dwarves. The fairies still didn't have wings. Rumple still wasn't sparkly. So Hook's curse-restored hand would have lasted until the curse reversal. When they were sent back after 3A, he'd have been back in pirate mode with hook.

[Dianthus]

Just FYI, if you're lucky enough to live near the coast (like me), beachcombing can be a fun and rewarding experience.

 

Driftwood sculptures (including pirates): 

www.atelier-n30.com

 

Fossils:

www.lymeregis.org

http://en.Wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Anning

 ;-D

Edited June 3, 2015 by Dianthus

[Curio]

The physical changes weren't reversed when the curse broke, only when it was reversed and they went back to the Enchanted Forest. Snow still had short hair (which went long again upon the return). Archie was still human. The dwarves still weren't dwarves. The fairies still didn't have wings. Rumple still wasn't sparkly. So Hook's curse-restored hand would have lasted until the curse reversal. When they were sent back after 3A, he'd have been back in pirate mode with hook.

It might have been interesting to see if Hook could've kept up a big charade for 1.5 seasons and convince everyone he wasn't actually Captain Hook until the 3B premiere. They'd have to change a lot of his past with Regina and Cora in the Enchanted Forest for that to work, but a possible scenario where that could have worked is if the only person in Storybrooke who knew Hook's true fairy tale identity was Rumple. When the Season 2 premiere reveal where everyone remembered their fairy tale personalities for the first time happened, it could have been a similar scenario like Victor where no one actually knew Hook's real identity. He could have used that to his advantage and convinced everyone he was just a common blacksmith back in Misthaven. (Especially if he happened to start forming an unexpected crush on a certain savior, he might have felt the need to keep his villainous past a secret from her with the hope of not scaring her away with his true fairy tale identity.) But of course Rumple would know who he truly was, so Hook would have to keep secretly making shady deals with the crocodile to keep his true villainous identity hidden throughout Season 2.

 

I'm not saying this would've been fun to see on screen for real, but fanfic on the other hand...

 

(You know it's hiatus time when all we can talk about is hypothetical situations.)

[Souris]

A photo of young & dramatic Colin.

[Shanna Marie]

You know it's hiatus time when all we can talk about is hypothetical situations.

I know! Last night I caught myself trying to decide if Hook in this alternate cursed scenario gave up on revenge and skipped out on Cora before the curse, which was what got him swept up in the curse, or if it was upon the breaking of the curse when he remembered who he was and what he wanted but then had the double whammy of realizing how ridiculous Regina's quest for revenge was and of having fallen in love with Emma and wishing he really was the man she thought he was. I even imagined an angsty scene at the town line, where he was considering crossing to lose his real memories and just be the person he was in Storybrooke. And then I was figuring out how a possible triangle might have played out while Graham was alive and how torn Emma might have been -- there's the guy who keeps trying to help her and who Henry seems to like, but there's something icky about a traitor, even if he is betraying Regina, but then there's the guy who doesn't technically work directly for Regina and who sometimes seems to follow his own conscience in doing stuff like hiring Emma as deputy but who also sometimes seems like Regina's puppet, and then ew, he's sleeping with Regina. And then after all this mental rabbit trailing I realized I was trying to mentally rewrite the first two seasons rather than thinking about what might happen next. But what's likely to happen next is probably going to be pretty depressing, and given the track record, what I imagine happening next is going to be a lot better than what we actually see, so dwelling on it is only going to lead to disappointment. I may as well mentally rewrite the first two seasons if Hook had been caught up in the curse.

[legaleagle53]

I know! Last night I caught myself trying to decide if Hook in this alternate cursed scenario gave up on revenge and skipped out on Cora before the curse, which was what got him swept up in the curse, or if it was upon the breaking of the curse when he remembered who he was and what he wanted but then had the double whammy of realizing how ridiculous Regina's quest for revenge was and of having fallen in love with Emma and wishing he really was the man she thought he was. I even imagined an angsty scene at the town line, where he was considering crossing to lose his real memories and just be the person he was in Storybrooke. And then I was figuring out how a possible triangle might have played out while Graham was alive and how torn Emma might have been -- there's the guy who keeps trying to help her and who Henry seems to like, but there's something icky about a traitor, even if he is betraying Regina, but then there's the guy who doesn't technically work directly for Regina and who sometimes seems to follow his own conscience in doing stuff like hiring Emma as deputy but who also sometimes seems like Regina's puppet, and then ew, he's sleeping with Regina. And then after all this mental rabbit trailing I realized I was trying to mentally rewrite the first two seasons rather than thinking about what might happen next. But what's likely to happen next is probably going to be pretty depressing, and given the track record, what I imagine happening next is going to be a lot better than what we actually see, so dwelling on it is only going to lead to disappointment. I may as well mentally rewrite the first two seasons if Hook had been caught up in the curse.

 

I'm now beginning to see why Isaac became so frustrated that he insisted on writing "Heroes and Villains."  He must have read the scripts for the last three seasons and thought, "Ew, I can do WAY better than that!"

[Shanna Marie]

I'm now beginning to see why Isaac became so frustrated that he insisted on writing "Heroes and Villains."  He must have read the scripts for the last three seasons and thought, "Ew, I can do WAY better than that!"

I wouldn't say that my mental AU rewrite of the first two seasons is better than what they actually did. There's a lot I'd like to fix in season two, but Hook having been part of the curse isn't the way I'd fix it (Hook has very seldom, if ever, been the key problem with any story line). It's amusing to imagine how that might have gone, but I prefer Hook being one of the few characters who's never been cursed. In fact, I'd feel a bit of a loss if he ever did get cursed via the Dark Curse that alters memories and identities. I like that he's 100 percent himself, that every change he's made for good or bad has been all him, with no magical meddling in his mind.

 

However, I do think my mental AU rewrite of the first two seasons is more pleasant to ponder than anything they might do going forward, based on their track record. I'm just about guaranteed to be disappointed in the reality vs. my imagination of anticipating the future, so the only way to go is to rewrite the past.

 

For last season, I had several mental story lines running. There was the idea that Elsa and Anna were from Hook's time, and he knew them from his navy days -- possibly when they were kids and he was the midshipman assigned to keep an eye on the princesses while their parents were doing important diplomatic stuff on the Jewel of the Realm, possibly from him being at the coronation and ball from the movie when the king traveled there on the Jewel of the Realm and Liam and Killian were among the military escort, so that they ended up being involved in the movie events in what would have been offscreen for the movie. Or there was the speculation about that urn in Hook's cabin on the Jolly Roger, so Hook and Emma had to go on a quest to find and take back the Jolly Roger in order to save Anna. I liked the Ingrid stuff in what we got, but the rest of the Frozen story was rather blah compared to what had played out in my head all summer.

[KingOfHearts]

I didn't like what they did with Hook in 4A. He and Rumple play well off each other, but it was very one-sided. One party was ridiculously overpowered, with the other practically defenseless. Couple that with the repetitive monologues and it's not a very entertaining rivalry. I wish he did have some connection to the Arendelle sisters. Rumple could be off having relationship drama with Belle like he always does.

Edited June 1, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

I didn't like what they did with Hook in 4A. He and Rumple play well off each other, but it was very one-sided. One party was ridiculously overpowered, with the other practically defenseless.

That's the show's issue with magic vs. non-magic in general, though. There's absolutely no way someone without magic can compete with the magical beings, so everyone relies on Emma or Regina to use their magic to save the day. It would be nice to see the non-magical people have some magical tools at their disposal where it can help give them an equal footing with the magical people, but the writers aren't interesting in setting any rules with their magic. Which is why we have this ridiculous "rivalry" between non-magical Hook and the way-too-super-powered Rumple where it's completely unrealistic that Rumple would have left Hook alive all this time.

[pezgirl7]

Colin presenting at the IFTA awards:

http://uponaspoiler.tumblr.com/post/120473083979/winter-by-the-sea-colin-odonoghue-at-the-ifta

 

I swear his accent is thicker here than when he does American press. I liked when he said "arrrrre". :)

[YaddaYadda]

Rumple will have no magic next season, I'd say that playing field is very much even with Hook in the driver's seat.  He should just kill the guy and be done with it.  Of course, everyone will be "oh noes!  Hook is a horrible person for killing someone who is basically defenseless" because the characters on this show have memory problems.

 

I'd like a scene where Hook just goes to Rumple and decks him real good.  

 

This one is for Milah.

This one is for Emma and trying to put her in the hat.

This one is for taking away his chance at helping save Emma and then taunting him about how he got over Milah even though it took him centuries, so he should be good to get over Emma too.

This one is for taking his heart.

This one is for trying to crush his heart.

This one is for trying to turn Emma dark.

This one is for the AU Rumple had the Author write.

 

I'm not a huge violence fan, but Rumple deserves a really good beating, from a lot of people.

[Shanna Marie]

I didn't like what they did with Hook in 4A. He and Rumple play well off each other, but it was very one-sided.

There was so much potential there, but the outcome was very disappointing. It doesn't help that it started with the hand stuff, which may have been the dumbest plot element of the season (as opposed to big-picture plot, which was won hands down by Operation Dumbass).

 

For starters, there was no setup. We'd never had any indication that Hook was at all sensitive about the hook or worried about it. We hadn't seen it getting in the way of anything he wanted to do, no moment of frustration or discomfort. Emma's made some comments about him only having one hand, but he hasn't shown any sign that this bothered him all that much, and she hadn't done it recently before he suddenly wanted his hand back.

 

Then it was utterly ridiculous that Hook would have fallen for Rumple's attempted psych-out about the hand turning him back into the selfish pirate he once was. Every time we've seen him called a selfish pirate, it was with the hook. He was at his worst -- the revenge-driven alcoholic -- with the hook. He first put the hook on as he was vowing revenge, and the hook even became the symbol of his revenge, since his plan was to drive his poisoned hook into Rumple. The hook was a constant reminder of his need for revenge. He had the hand when he was at his best, as an upright naval officer, and when he was deeply in love. If anything had bad mojo, it was the hook, not the hand. He's trying desperately not to be "Captain Hook" anymore and identifies himself as "Killian," not "Hook." That should have made Hook laugh in Rumple's face or should have been a sign that Rumple was messing with him because it seems like Rumple doesn't actually know much about Hook and just assumed he'd always been a pirate rather than knowing that the piracy was actually pretty recent when Rumple first met him, and before that he was a very proper naval officer. It's also weird for it to have just been a psych-out instead of some kind of curse on the hand because would a right-handed person who has had only a right hand for a couple of centuries really start suddenly throwing punches with his left hand? Look at the way Colin talks about catching himself keeping his left hand clenched all the time, and he just uses the hook when they're actually shooting the show and has only been doing this for a few years.

 

And then it ended up not mattering at all, since Rumple didn't blackmail him into doing anything other than hatting the Apprentice before ripping his heart out and making him do stuff that way. There was the tearful phone call, but Emma never heard it. The blackmail only mattered in that Hook recognized August's drawing of the Apprentice, but the hatting could have happened after Rumple took Hook's heart. You could cut that entire plot element out of the series without changing the plot. They did something major to a character and hit the reset button in the same episode, seemingly to set up a plot that ended up not mattering.

 

The sad thing is, the issue of Hook's hand is something that should be addressed, but can they really go back to that after having used it already? Was him begging to get the hook back them closing the door on that issue and settling it that Hook wants the hook and will stay that way forever?

[Faemonic]

As much as I liked the subversion of the fanon that the hook is what makes Hook evil...how on earth does a hand give somebody more "permission" to be evil than a sharp piece of metal in the hand's stead? Lieutenant Puppy had both hands for at least 15 years.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Faemonic

[HoodlumSheep]

The problem I had most with Hook's 4a plot was probably the fact that we had that pretty intense "lol, you're screwed!" From Rumple at the end of 4x04, but then that whole plot is completely ignored for 2/3 eps like it never happened, only to be picked up again. I know there were other things they had to focus on (like finally giving Emma a more fleshed out backstory, etc). But it just felt unnatural to suddenly ignore it for awhile.

[Dianthus]

Shanna Marie, on 01 Jun 2015 - 7:06 PM, said:Shanna Marie, on 01 Jun 2015 - 7:06 PM, said:

There was so much potential there, but the outcome was very disappointing. It doesn't help that it started with the hand stuff, which may have been the dumbest plot element of the season (as opposed to big-picture plot, which was won hands down by Operation Dumbass).

 

For starters, there was no setup. We'd never had any indication that Hook was at all sensitive about the hook or worried about it. We hadn't seen it getting in the way of anything he wanted to do, no moment of frustration or discomfort. Emma's made some comments about him only having one hand, but he hasn't shown any sign that this bothered him all that much, and she hadn't done it recently before he suddenly wanted his hand back.

 

Then it was utterly ridiculous that Hook would have fallen for Rumple's attempted psych-out about the hand turning him back into the selfish pirate he once was. Every time we've seen him called a selfish pirate, it was with the hook. He was at his worst -- the revenge-driven alcoholic -- with the hook. He first put the hook on as he was vowing revenge, and the hook even became the symbol of his revenge, since his plan was to drive his poisoned hook into Rumple. The hook was a constant reminder of his need for revenge. He had the hand when he was at his best, as an upright naval officer, and when he was deeply in love. If anything had bad mojo, it was the hook, not the hand. He's trying desperately not to be "Captain Hook" anymore and identifies himself as "Killian," not "Hook." That should have made Hook laugh in Rumple's face or should have been a sign that Rumple was messing with him because it seems like Rumple doesn't actually know much about Hook and just assumed he'd always been a pirate rather than knowing that the piracy was actually pretty recent when Rumple first met him, and before that he was a very proper naval officer. It's also weird for it to have just been a psych-out instead of some kind of curse on the hand because would a right-handed person who has had only a right hand for a couple of centuries really start suddenly throwing punches with his left hand? Look at the way Colin talks about catching himself keeping his left hand clenched all the time, and he just uses the hook when they're actually shooting the show and has only been doing this for a few years.

 

And then it ended up not mattering at all, since Rumple didn't blackmail him into doing anything other than hatting the Apprentice before ripping his heart out and making him do stuff that way. There was the tearful phone call, but Emma never heard it. The blackmail only mattered in that Hook recognized August's drawing of the Apprentice, but the hatting could have happened after Rumple took Hook's heart. You could cut that entire plot element out of the series without changing the plot. They did something major to a character and hit the reset button in the same episode, seemingly to set up a plot that ended up not mattering.

 

The sad thing is, the issue of Hook's hand is something that should be addressed, but can they really go back to that after having used it already? Was him begging to get the hook back them closing the door on that issue and settling it that Hook wants the hook and will stay that way forever?

I think it's possible (tho' perhaps unlikely) that the Apprentice (if he lived) could/would restore Killian's hand. I think he'd be forgiving, considering his own regret for screwing up Lily's life due to Isaac's interference. Hook had no other reason to harm the old guy or any sort of beef with him except for making a bad bargain with Rumple. Plus, as stupid as it was, Hook's hardly the first to fall victim to Rumple's manipulations.

 

ITA that Rumple's got it coming (ala the SNL version of 'It's a Wonderful Life'), but then so does Regina.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Dianthus

[Shanna Marie]

ITA that Rumple's got it coming (ala the SNL version of 'It's a Wonderful Life')

Hee, that's exactly the image that came to mind.

 

I think it's possible (tho' perhaps unlikely) that the Apprentice (if he lived) could/would restore Killian's hand.

Emma could probably do it. We've seen that she can now heal, and since Rumple did it when he was the Dark One, Emma should certainly be able to. The question is whether he wants it. We don't know if he still believes the way he did when he first asked for the hand back or if he's relaxed into realizing it's okay, and we don't know if he's still spooked by what the hand would do to him (though I still don't think it makes sense for him to be that spooked about it). I would kind of like for him to get it back for good eventually, mostly because I feel sorry for Colin having to deal with that thing.

 

Which is why we have this ridiculous "rivalry" between non-magical Hook and the way-too-super-powered Rumple where it's completely unrealistic that Rumple would have left Hook alive all this time.

What's worse is that even when Hook managed to overcome the power imbalance, it meant nothing. So he resisted the blackmail and told Emma what was going on, but she never heard the message. He was able to fight past the control to signal her that something was wrong, and although she seemed to notice something, she did nothing about it. Not only was Hook way overpowered, but when he found a way to resist they still didn't let it count. If you're going to have a huge power imbalance, at least let the underdog accomplish something with great struggle. Even if Rumple's magic is hard to fight, at least let his own arrogance trip him up, like him not understanding Hook being willing to lose Emma in order to save her life, or Hook's will being strong enough for him to fight at least a little, or him going too far in quizzing Belle about Will so that Belle would bring it up with the real Hook and realize she was duped. There are ways to overcome the power imbalance to keep things interesting, and there's something deliciously ironic about the underdog prevailing out of sheer stubbornness and love and cleverness while the villain doesn't understand normal people anymore. That's what's usually entertaining about the showdowns between Hook and Rumple. Rumple may have power, but he just doesn't get Hook because he doesn't understand that kind of courage or that kind of unselfish love.

[Rumsy4]

What's worse is that even when Hook managed to overcome the power imbalance, it meant nothing. So he resisted the blackmail and told Emma what was going on, but she never heard the message. He was able to fight past the control to signal her that something was wrong, and although she seemed to notice something, she did nothing about it. Not only was Hook way overpowered, but when he found a way to resist they still didn't let it count. If you're going to have a huge power imbalance, at least let the underdog accomplish something with great struggle. 

 

That was one of the most baffling things about it. They set up so many smoking guns in 4A, but spectacularly failed to use any of them, opting instead for a random whatsit from Camelot (hah!) to cut the gordian knot. The writers are always more focussed on setting up the next arc, than on properly resolving the current ones. I really really want Hook to kick Rumple's ass next season. 

[sharky]

Although we did see a bit of that power balance at the end of the season when Gold's heart was faltering and now that he's no longer the Dark One, I think it will be even more interesting to see how that dynamic plays out. The reason Emma is the Dark One now is because the darkness was taken out of Gold so Hook may have some less than kind words about that. Then add to the fact that without the dark curse, Gold is just some guy. Unlike Emma, he didn't have magic without the Dark Curse. So I think whatever issues we may have had with this past season, those will be moot when it comes to season 5. And frankly, I'm looking forward to Hook approaching Gold now on a more level field. Hook has been going to the good side but having his Happy Ending disappear because she took on a curse that used to be anchored to his arch enemy could make his hero status slide a bit. It would be nice to see bitter angry Hook back but only for a little while.

[YaddaYadda]

Then add to the fact that without the dark curse, Gold is just some guy.

 

He's not just some guy though.  He's the guy who stepped on his ship and refused to fight for his wife.  Gold will be back to being Rumplestiltskin pre-Dark One, the one we caught a glimpse of when he was telling Belle he was afraid when she was about to banish him out.

 

One thing I wonder about is how level is the playing field.  Apparently anyone can do magic.  Mary Margaret did some magic when the ladies were in the EF in season 2 and Regina as well as Cora weren't born with them magic, they learned it and Rumple was super powerful because he was the Dark One.

 

Rumple knows magic.  Rumple managed to live in the LwM and I think he did really well for himself considering who he is without his magic.  I would not be surprised in the least if the centuries of practicing magic will not give him a leg up still on the mere common mortals, including Hook.  

 

That being said, will Rumple wanna redeem himself?  He more than anyone will know about the Dark One since it lived inside of him for some 300 years.

 

Personally, I'd have a difficult time with anything he does or says just because of all the fuckery he pulled in season 4 and I can see Hook not wanting anything to do with him, not wanting him to be part of anything to do with Emma while David and Snow will likely be more open to the idea.

 

There are so many variables with this.  Is Rumple going to be okay living the way he is now?  Or is he going to practice magic covertly and then wanna gain control of the dagger in order to get his powers back?  Or are we done with completely with Sparkly!Dark.

[Shanna Marie]

So, after being depressed by that other fantasy show that puts too much weight on "surprise!" and not enough on setup, I thought I'd cheer myself up with thoughts of a pretty pirate, and I can't believe it's been so long since a post in this thread. So, how about a Hook-specific wish list for next season, or upcoming seasons?

 

I want some swashbuckling. Did Hook even get to use a sword this season other than in the AU?

I'd love it if they used Emma's (possible) absence to let him develop relationships with some other characters. I guess we won't see much of him interacting with Belle while she's back to being hung up on Rumple, but maybe we could get back to moving forward with David instead of being stuck in the prove himself more than worthy/be doubted yet again loop. And it would be nice to learn what Henry really thinks about him. We don't even know for sure if Henry knows that Hook is essentially his paternal step-grandfather (wasn't there some interview somewhere that mentioned that Hook and Milah considered themselves to be married?).

Without Emma as his WWOM crutch, maybe we'll get a teeny bit more fish out of water.

But I don't want Emma out of the picture too long. Let that get resolved quickly.

Flashback of either his childhood, Lt. Jones days, or early pirate days, soon after turning pirate but before Milah.

[daxx]

I want to see a conversation with either Mary Margaret or David discussing breaking curses with TLK and Killian scratching his ear and being uncomfortable, telling them about his attempt in New York and them reassuring him that it doesn't work on memory loss. I am sure he believes that he is not her True Love even if she does love him.

[Faemonic]

Flashback of either his childhood, Lt. Jones days, or early pirate days, soon after turning pirate but before Milah.

 

I want a spinoff series of this. Take that #StopOnceUponAHook

 

Bring Liam Jones back in flashbacks! Let's see extra baby Killian.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Faemonic

[HoodlumSheep]

Didn't Hook lose his sword back when rumple poofed them into the vault back in the 3b finale? At least that's what I've thought this entire time. Otherwise, I don't know why he wouldn't carry it around like David has his sometimes.

I would like to see some more Swashbuckling. I hate it when it's always mentioned how great certain characters are at something, and you get to rarely see it. So while I'm happy that we've gotten to see some of Hook's sword and sailing skills, I would like to see a little more.

I still want him to help Grumpy with his boat, that way he and Nova can go off sailing and wrap up their storyline.

I wouldn't mind more flashbacks with Liam, it doesn't matter at what age. He was a father/brother/best friend/mentor all wrapped into one and we've only seen him once. I don't care if it's just a flashback of Liam straightening Killy's collar, more Liam is always welcome.

So wish list:

More swashbuckling, more Liam, and more fights with Blackbeard too (I'd love to see how they met in the Onceverse)

[OnceUponAJen]

I know it's been said already, but I would love for Hook to be front and center for Operation Save Emma in S5. I think it's his rightful place alongside Snowing. I want to see a sea voyage too. Mix things up a bit. Seeing Hook as captain again would be great. I'd really love to see him give Rumple his comeuppance at some point too.

I've got to admit, it would be interesting to see a little evil Hook and Emma as well. Maybe for just a few episodes, at least. :)

Edited June 15, 2015 by OnceUponAJen

[pezgirl7]

I want to see pretty much everything everyone else has already said. I really want to see him and Emma kick some ass together, not just trudging through the forest. Side by side, fighting together, like a kick-ass, true-love couple. Oh, and a shower or bath scene would be nice. :)

 

[Shanna Marie]

I want to see a conversation with either Mary Margaret or David discussing breaking curses with TLK and Killian scratching his ear and being uncomfortable, telling them about his attempt in New York and them reassuring him that it doesn't work on memory loss. I am sure he believes that he is not her True Love even if she does love him.

While I'm sure that his insecurities and self loathing would make him fear that a TLK wouldn't work, I don't think the failed New York attempt is any indication of whether or not it would work now, regardless of the memory loss issue. So much has happened between them since then. I don't think she really loved him then. She was attracted to him and maybe even kind of liked him, but she wasn't in love with him, and while he loved her (or loved the idea of her) enough to give up everything he owned for her, I'm not sure I'd call it True Love then because I do think it was more about the idea of her and the possibility of her than about his real love for her as a person. But since then they've become friends, worked together, she's shared a lot about her childhood with him. He jumped into a time portal with her, danced with her at her first royal ball, held her while she watched her mother die, consoled her afterward, and wiped her tears. He's helped her believe in herself and accept her role in her family. She learned that he gave up everything for her. They've started dating and really kiss on a regular basis. She's nearly lost him multiple times and knows how much that hurts. She watched him die for her in the AU. Their relationship is very different from what it was in New York.

 

Bring Liam Jones back in flashbacks! Let's see extra baby Killian.

So much younger that they need different actors!

 

I would like enough flashback for his backstory to start working, to explain how an abandoned child became a naval officer who knew how to behave at royal balls. Was he left totally alone, or did Liam more or less raise him? We have a lot more fanon and headcanon about Liam than we have facts, other than Killian's lament to Pan that Liam was all he had.

 

The main reason I want to see the early pirate days is that there's a big gap between "I can't fight for a king who'd want to commit genocide, so I'm going rogue and fighting against him" and the pirate we saw meeting Milah. I somehow don't imagine him instantly switching to black leather after ditching the uniform. Was it a slippery slope, starting out with righteous ideals and then reality setting in, since there's not a lot of money in revenge, so ordinary piracy was necessary to get supplies and pay the crew, and soon they were more pirates than rebel fighters? Or did the war end and they didn't have anywhere else to go? That seems to be a big transition phase that would explain a lot about who he became.

[pezgirl7]

Another item to add to the list of Colin's many life-ruining talents: he's handy. He probably makes bookcases out of reclaimed wood in his spare time or something.

 

[daxx]

Like I needed more things to like about that man. SMH.

[sharky]

Here's what I need in season five: Liam. Seriously, it needs to happen. I don't care how.

 

Also I've been thinking about Hook's sword and his leather duster. I think he got rid of the sword after he changed to modern clothes. But with Emma gone, he needs to go on a swashbuckling adventure and you can't swashbuckle without a sword. And he needs his pirate coat. So essentially I want to see them mix up his costume pieces. Modern outfit but switch the modern leather coat for his long duster and add the sword. A classic modern pirate at the helm of the Jolly Roger on an adventure to get his true love back. Done.

[RadioGirl27]

My wish is simple: I want him to have a bigger role than in 4B. And Liam, I need more Liam.

[HoodlumSheep]

^ i don't think Hook had his sword in the entirety of season 4. When they were fighting the snow monster in 4x01 i don't remember him having it at all.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oREG0uxu65A

(^ It's just a link to some Killy scenes in ep 4x01. I can't see the sword at all in any of the scenes).

[sharky]

That's weird. I guess it was easy to not notice it with the modern wardrobe change. I'll have to do watch more Hook videos on YouTube... I mean, do more detailed scientific research.

[YaddaYadda]

I think he stopped wearing his sword right after 3x20.

[Souris]

Rumple poofed his sword away when they went back to the EF, and I don't think we ever saw it again.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Souris

[YaddaYadda]

Technically, he didn't do the whole time travel thing with the sword, he didn't have it on him when he fell face first in the EF.  The only thing he had was the book of convenience.  The sword that Rumple gave him was part of the outfit and didn't belong to Hook anyway.

 

So, I guess we need spoilers or something at this point in time?  If Emma is not in Storybrooke which a lot of us don't believe she is anyway, or if she is and they all go together to find Merlin, they'll travel prepared as in Hook will have his pirate gear back on.  Does David even have any of his EF clothing or will he have to go to the Renaissance store that is bound to pop up somewhere on Main Street?  

 

As her first magical act, Dark One!Emma will poof everyone cool outfits.

[sharky]

David can borrow some of Hook's stuff. They both wear leather pants so at least that's covered. Perhaps Killian can dig out the old blue naval jackets that he and Liam wore and David can be his new Liam or something. And then I can go buy lots of Kleenex.

[YaddaYadda]

Perhaps Killian can dig out the old blue naval jackets that he and Liam wore and David can be his new Liam or something.

 

Well, David is a stubborn arse!

[Lieutenant]

I'm loving all the love for Liam!  And I agree with all of it.  I mean, even Bernard (and let's face it, pretty much the rest of the fandom and cast) wants him to come back for a reprise.  Surely they could write a meaningful backstory episode again.  There's so much about Killian we can only guess about...Need more!  

 

I want him to be front and center in all of this questing to get the Dark One out of Emma.  I'd like more Captain Charming/Snowing/Cobra.  I'd really love some sort of verbal acknowledgement from Snowing to Killian, assuring him that he's a good man.  And that they have every confidence in the hero he's becoming now, as the protector of Emma's heart and her love.  Because the only person who has ever been there to build him up like that is Emma.  And I truly believe he's come so far.  It's time for others besides her to notice this, and provide that vital encouragement to him. Can he do this mission alone.  Hell yes.  Just look what he did to get back to her after Pan's curse.  Should he have to do this alone, without support, friendship, and validation?  No.

[Shanna Marie]

I've always found it intriguing that they were very careful not to name the king Killian and Liam were fighting for or the kingdom they were from. I suppose it could have been because it didn't matter, but it could also have been that they were saving that for a big reveal later. Who was this possibly genocidal king, and what war was it they were fighting? I've been trying to think of villain kings from myth, fairy tales and folklore, or even public domain works, but I can't think of much. They've already used King Midas. Lancelot was from the same time as Snow and Charming, so they can't be doing a villain twist on Arthur. Maybe Old King Cole, and it turns out that the merry old soul act was just a false front (after all, Liam believed so strongly that their king couldn't possibly have sent them on a mission to collect a deadly poison that he scratched himself with the poisonous vine to prove it).

 

I kind of find it odd that no one has even brought up his native time period. He's essentially a time traveler. If a guy from 100 or so years ago showed up, I'd be interviewing him like mad. That should have been something we saw in Team Library scenes. You'd think Belle, of all people, would have been asking about life back in his time. Yeah, she also had Rumple around, but he was a homebody. Hook is a guy who was out and about in the world at that time. And then there's the fact that although he has a different accent, no one asks where he's from or makes assumptions based on where he's from.

[Curio]

I kind of find it odd that no one has even brought up his native time period. He's essentially a time traveler. [...] You'd think Belle, of all people, would have been asking about life back in his time.

 

I keep hoping and praying that the writers have been purposely keeping Killian's history a secret because they have a big arc coming up that will finally explore his past...but we're already in Season 5, and with Emma becoming the new Dark One, I don't know how much room they'll have to properly explore all of that. Unfortunately, it makes me think the writers don't care to explore that history, which is a shame because there's so much potential gold to mine. They seem to be perfectly content with Hook just being Emma's pretty love interest who gets one centric episode per season, but it's sad when you think about how he's the only main lead where we don't even know which kingdom he grew up in or who his parents are. (We even know Robin Hood grew up in Sherwood Forest.)

 

I was also hoping Hook's new friendship with Belle could have lead to some throwaway lines about his past adventures. The audience could have jumped in mid-sentence about a sea voyage gone awry and that one time Hook and his crew had to dock in an uncharted ice cave to avoid undead pirates during a deadly winter and...oh wait, we have to go help Emma and Regina fight a Chernabog! We'll catch up on that story later! But...nope.

 

There's so much we still don't know about Hook that it's actually getting comical how much they have to dodge his backstory. We don't know where he grew up, who his parents were, if his mom was even present in his life, if he and Liam were orphans or not, or when he joined the Navy, or did he actually join the Navy or was he enlisted, and when did he turn from being an angry young man who mourned his brother's death to piercing his ear and wearing an all-out black pirate ensemble, and who the evil king was, and how long was he that kind of pirate before he met Milah, and what kind of far-off lands did he and his pirate crew adventure to, and what did he do to occupy his time in Neverland for hundreds of years (I highly doubt he was making cake runs for Pan all the time), and how was he able to outrun a curse singlehandedly, and where did he know how to find a magic bean on his own, and how did he know Blackbeard was alive to trade his ship to when he thought he had killed him, and did the magic bean take Hook straight to Emma's doorstep in New York or did he have to awkwardly navigate the streets of the big city, and...

 

So, yeah. Lots of unanswered questions.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

Curio, we really don't need Hook's backstory when we can always get more on Regina and Rumple and round 20 billion on how those two were fucked over by everything and everyone.  Seriously...Regina and Rumple always need more people around them, more people they know, more people related to them.

 

We went to Neverland and if it wasn't for "Good Form", we would have gotten nothing on Hook.  And the "Jolly Roger" became moot for me because Blackbeard really didn't die.  Even that angst and how he was cursed by Zelena was reduced to nothing since Ariel saved the man and he traded his ship to him for the convenient magic bean.

 

I wish I didn't love Emma and Hook so much as individuals and as a couple because it would be that much easier for me to quit this bitch.

[Shanna Marie]

I doubt we'll ever see anything about the outrunning of the curse and the bean/ship trade and trip to New York because I can't see how it would affect the current plot more than it already has, unless there's something else that happened during that time that will turn out to be relevant.

 

I wonder, who won the war that Killian and Liam were fighting in? Was his one-ship crusade at all successful? My guess is that his (former) king won and became more powerful, and that had something to do with him becoming a full-on pirate, since at that point he would have been thoroughly outlawed and couldn't have gone home, if he had a home to go back to, and wouldn't have been able to find a real job anywhere. Hmm, sounds like I'm basically giving Hook Robin Hood's backstory of being stripped of his home and rank by an unjust tyrant king and becoming an outlaw because he didn't have any real options. Except I don't think pirate Killian was giving the stuff he stole to the poor, unless you count his crew.

[Curio]

I doubt we'll ever see anything about the outrunning of the curse and the bean/ship trade and trip to New York because I can't see how it would affect the current plot more than it already has, unless there's something else that happened during that time that will turn out to be relevant.

 

If Emma happens to be in another land after she disappeared in the Dark One cloud (my personal speculation, anyways), it would seem like that outrunning/bean/ship adventure would be a good parallel to use to the current storyline. Whereas Hook was utterly alone on that adventure, had to manage everything by himself, gave up his only home, and knew Emma had no memories of him in another realm—this time, Hook is surrounded by Charming, Henry, Snow, and many others who will help him find Emma, he has his Jolly Roger back, and he knows Emma loves him. Throw in some scene from his magical bean trade that involves a tie to Merlin and we have ourselves the perfect flashback parallel episode.