Season 5: Days of Real Housewives Lives - The Season in Review

[IKnowRight]

She didn't have her purse but she did take the time to take her mic pack off so I don't think it was for more camera time.  All Kim did was verbally assault her.  I saw something on Monty's Instagram that was frightening- https://instagram.com/p/zUZShFwfAA/?taken-by=montybrinson  this was the day of the Reunion filming.  So I think Kim has had the mindset of an 18 year old little street thugette.  Kim wanted to keep going-she did not care about Yolanda or anyone else.

 

I mean Kim was going to start telling truths.  It would be like Lisar saying, "shall we talk about all your pregnancies Kim?"  These are the missed opportunities of those who don't fight as dirty as Kim or Brandi.

Awesome post Zoeysmom! So, this!

This is why Brandi & Kim are now BFFs. Not only are they both outsiders looking for acceptance, but they teamed up as they use the same dirty technique to take down the other ladies. They studied at the Tamra Barney school, Housewives from Hell.

[nexxie]

 

Kyle needs to get this and realize she can't heal her primal wound with her mother by putting up with her sister. I seriously am shocked that Kyle seems to have found a good guy, the have a relatively normal life with seemingly well adjusted kids. Most people with narcissistic mothers end up marrying controling asshole men. Kyle isn't my favorite and has many stupid petty flaws but she has been strong enough to want better relationships for herself and her children. That is, seriously, impressive. Big Kathy was an evil bitch to pawn Kim off on her on her death bed. Pure evil.

That would be a great book for Kyle to read! She has mentioned that her mother's "shove it under the rug" approach wasn't helpful, but I wonder how much Kyle has figured out about her family dynamics. I agree, it's impressive how she's built a good life with seemingly healthy relationships in her own family.

[nexxie]

The author of "The Object Of My Affection Is In My Reflection" - a book on how to cope with Narcissists - should include Kim in the next edition, with her "What about MY pain?", "What about MY nights?" when being asked about someone else's pain and someone else's nights.

I have to give Kyle props for being able to laugh at herself when it comes to her "flight" reaction to drama. There are times, now, when she definitely "fights", but her tendency to (literally) run away from conflict seems to really irritate some people and I think she has taken it in stride. Self-deprecating humor goes a long way with me, personally, and I appreciate it when someone is able to step back and go "Wow, that thing I do really is kind of funny/weird/silly/irritating/ridiculous/etc.". It definitely shows some kind of awareness, and also, shows an acceptance for oneself as well.

Her WWHL interview the other night highlighted that she's still very much driven to sustain that family loyalty to Kim, but since Kim doesn't want resolution, Kyle is going to have to work on grieving for that loss and moving on from her family of origin drama, but I think she's already light years ahead of Kim with regards to being self-aware and willing to put in the effort to become a better version of herself.

I wonder if Kyle was the scapegoat in that family. So many narc mothers assign that role to one child and the other children then feel free to dump on the scapegoat too. Kim speaks to Kyle with such disdain, as Lisa R rightly points out. Edited March 28, 2015 by nexxie

[quinn]

They studied at the Tamra Barney school, Housewives from Hell.

 

One of the earliest indicators of things to come was when the cast of The Real Housewives Of Beverly Hills did WWHL before the series premier, Kim stated that Tamra was her favorite HW, the HW she wanted to be like or something like that. She was also (to my eyes) totally lit up on that appearance.

[Rhetorica]

I know counseling helps, especially behavioral counseling. But Kim and Kyle will never attend counseling if they think their behavior is appropriate. They would be better served by friends who tell them their actions are unacceptable. They're what, in their 40s? They can't keep blaming mommy for their actions. They're grown ass women who need to take responsibility.

[nexxie]

I know counseling helps, especially behavioral counseling. But Kim and Kyle will never attend counseling if they think their behavior is appropriate. They would be better served by friends who tell them their actions are unacceptable. They're what, in their 40s? They can't keep blaming mommy for their actions. They're grown ass women who need to take responsibility.

imo they DON'T blame their mother, don't even realize how she set them up for this with her own personality disorder. A good therapist could help them understand the unhealthy dynamics of their birth family and free them from their assigned roles. Kyle could figure it out by reading too, but I doubt Kim will ever embrace self-awareness.

[Rhetorica]

imo they DON'T blame their mother, don't even realize how she set them up for this with her own personality disorder. A good therapist could help them understand the unhealthy dynamics of their birth family and free them from their assigned roles. Kyle could figure it out by reading too, but I doubt Kim will ever embrace self-awareness.

Of course, I can't know how they feel so perhaps the don't realize mom's influence. But the seem to emulate her. They often mention her rules and that affects them today. Mom said not to air dirty laundry, mom said to take care of my sister... They seem, to me, to take these as hard and fast rules and won't break them, even for their own good. I do agree that Kim is the least aware and may never grow. That's why I, personally, would distance myself from her. Of course, I score very high in my mental stability ;)

[nexxie]

Of course, I can't know how they feel so perhaps the don't realize mom's influence. But the seem to emulate her. They often mention her rules and that affects them today. Mom said not to air dirty laundry, mom said to take care of my sister... They seem, to me, to take these as hard and fast rules and won't break them, even for their own good. I do agree that Kim is the least aware and may never grow. That's why I, personally, would distance myself from her. Of course, I score very high in my mental stability ;)

I'm with you - distancing herself would be smart on Kyle's part. She's interesting in that, on the one hand, she does seem to follow her mother's rules; and, on the other hand, she says that those rules enabled Kim. My guess is that Kyle is the sensitive one, and also devoted to family, so she was easy for her mother - and now Kim - to manipulate. Kyle seems on the verge of freedom - crossing my fingers for her.

[HumblePi]

I know counseling helps, especially behavioral counseling. But Kim and Kyle will never attend counseling if they think their behavior is appropriate. They would be better served by friends who tell them their actions are unacceptable. They're what, in their 40s? They can't keep blaming mommy for their actions. They're grown ass women who need to take responsibility.

Isn't there a point in everyone's lives when they put on their big girl pants and say "I'm a grownup, I am responsible for me" ? Usually that happens between the age of 18-22 for women. These are middle-aged women and there's no reason whatsoever that one should be responsible for the other. Whatever either of them promised their mother, the statute of limitations has expired long ago. What is it that creates the lifelong obligation to watch over a sibling? Really, they are grown ups and have their own lives and should live their lives as they choose. Kim and Kyle should realize that they aren't living for each other, they are living for themselves and for their own families. Truthfully, I'm really sick and tired of the see-saw back and forth, the ups and downs, and the extremes of this sister relationship.

[nexxie]

How many mothers have said to their children who has serious problems, "Take care of your sister (or brother)."  More than you think.  I don't think it evil.  I think it's being a mom.  And I would say the same to my children.  I guess I'm evil.  Or, I'm just a mom.

You're right, in a normal healthy family, that would be a normal healthy request. But if it's true that Big Kathy was a serious narcissist, it could be the continuation of a sick dynamic that puts the care and importance of the narcissist's "golden child" over what's good for the "scapegoat" or "lost child."

Kyle's bedside conversation with Yolanda in Amsterdam was really interesting - she said "I don't want that job" and "I have feelings too." She could have said the same things her whole life in a family ruled by a narcissistic mother and an addicted golden child sister.

[Rhetorica]

You're right, in a normal healthy family, that would be a normal healthy request. But if it's true that Big Kathy was a serious narcissist, it could be the continuation of a sick dynamic that puts the care and importance of the narcissist's "golden child" over what's good for the "scapegoat" or "lost child."

Kyle's bedside conversation with Yolanda in Amsterdam was really interesting - she said "I don't want that job" and "I have feelings too." She could have said the same things her whole life in a family ruled by a narcissistic mother and an addicted golden child sister.

I'm just curious. At what age was Kyle when her mother died? To be frank, I think it's a cop out to say I'm like this cause my mom didn't like me best. That's an excuse for her behavior. There comes a time to grow up emotionally.

[nexxie]

I'm just curious. At what age was Kyle when her mother died? To be frank, I think it's a cop out to say I'm like this cause my mom didn't like me best. That's an excuse for her behavior. There comes a time to grow up emotionally.

I think she died a few years ago. Haven't seen where any of the sisters blame their mother - they seem to still put her on a pedestal (foolishly, in my opinion).

[BluishGreen]

It really was a boring season.  I wish we could have seen more of Yolanda's amazing yacht trip with David.  Now THAT was a yacht, and the destinations seemed so amazing and off the beaten path. 

 

I'd love to see just one season without Kyle Richards though.  It's always the same old crap when she's around.  Been there, done that.  Endlessly.  Enough already.

 

Lisa got her revenge on a few of them, the only one left is Kyle.  I think she saved the most difficult bitch for last, but in no way do I believe that Lisa is over what Kyle did to her last year.  Lisa is stealth, she WILL get even, and the best revenge is served cold. 

So, your assumption here is that Lisa V. was actually plotting revenge when she said on the boat in Amsterdam that Kyle was "her girl" ?  And the times she has shown friendship and  support for Kyle over the past couple of episodes are all part of a scheme to trick Kyle into thinking they are mending fences, when, in reality, Lisa V. is coming for her? All part of some master plan to get back at Kyle when she least expects it?  Wouldn't that make Lisa V.  kind of a monster?  Or, at the very least,  wouldn't we all have to say Lisa V does play a chess with other people's emotions and does prey on the weak or, at least, the unsuspecting? Wouldn't that mean that Kyle's long ago remarks about Lisa V were true after all?

[Umbelina]

Yes.  I think it's all fake.  There is no way Lisa will forgive, let alone "forget."  Those comments to Kyle were meant to needle Brandi, and they did.

 

Lisa is by far the most clever of all of them.

 

I think Kim and Brandi were her first, and easiest targets.  Yolanda, for the most part, got a pass, probably because she's sick, and possibly because of the Mohammed connection.  Kyle?  She's saving the hardest nut to crack for last.  Also Bravo gave Kyle a new ally this season, Lipsa.  She's biding her time.

Edited March 28, 2015 by Umbelina

[nexxie]

Yes.  I think it's all fake.  There is no way Lisa will forgive, let alone "forget."  Those comments to Kyle were meant to needle Brandi, and they did.

 

Lisa is by far the most clever of all of them.

 

I think Kim and Brandi were her first, and easiest targets.  Yolanda, for the most part, got a pass, probably because she's sick, and possibly because of the Mohammed connection.  Kyle?  She's saving the hardest nut to crack for last.  Also Bravo gave Kyle a new ally this season, Lipsa.  She's biding her time.

I see Lisa as calculating too, fun to watch but I wouldn't trust her.

[zoeysmom]

I'm just curious. At what age was Kyle when her mother died? To be frank, I think it's a cop out to say I'm like this cause my mom didn't like me best. That's an excuse for her behavior. There comes a time to grow up emotionally.

Kathy Richards Fenton died in 2002.  Kyle was 33, Kim was 38 and Little Kathy was 43.

[SwordQueen]

You're right, in a normal healthy family, that would be a normal healthy request. But if it's true that Big Kathy was a serious narcissist, it could be the continuation of a sick dynamic that puts the care and importance of the narcissist's "golden child" over what's good for the "scapegoat" or "lost child."

Kyle's bedside conversation with Yolanda in Amsterdam was really interesting - she said "I don't want that job" and "I have feelings too." She could have said the same things her whole life in a family ruled by a narcissistic mother and an addicted golden child sister.

 

I agree with you completely on this.  I really wonder about Kyle's role in that family.  I kind of feel like although she wasn't the "Golden Child" that she may have been seen as the "Responsible One", which could amount to being the "Scapegoat" since anything that went wrong was then Kyle's fault because she should have been on top of it, been able to fix it, been able to help her sisters, etc.   Kyle wasn't out of control like the other two.  It's interesting to me that Big Kathy requested (required) Kyle to take care of junkie Kim.   Why not Big Kathy's eldest, and Kim's older sister, Kathy?  Why did she ask the youngest daughter and Kim's younger sister?  It was, imo, an unhealthy, sad request because like you said, they had an unhealthy, sad family dynamic.  I'll bet that Big Kathy's word was deemed more important than just about anything -- national and state laws, societal standards, religious dogma, etc.  Breaking a promise to Big Kathy or letting her down was tantamount to heresy and a sin.  Definitely a sick way of raising children. 

 

 

I'm just curious. At what age was Kyle when her mother died? To be frank, I think it's a cop out to say I'm like this cause my mom didn't like me best. That's an excuse for her behavior. There comes a time to grow up emotionally.

 

Reasons are not always used as excuses.  There are reasons/motivators/causes for what we often think, do, say, feel in life based on genetics, brain wiring, environment, traumatic situations.  Knowing why doesn't mean all of your behavior is excused.  But it can help someone figure out how to change it or work with it.   A lot of people cant just grow up emotionally at the snap of a finger.  No one can , actually.  It's a process.  It takes time and introspection and learning where you came from.  That's psychology.  Which is why Kyle really needs a good therapist to help her work through this, because she might be able to understand logically that Big Kathy's way of raising them was unhealthy but she might not understand in which ways that has affected her and how her current actions and attitude reflect that. 

[Umbelina]

Again, though Kyle likes to SAY "mom told me to take care of you" she has never, not once, disputed Kim's claim that their mother asked the same thing of Kim.  It was a "take care of each other" request, not some "Kyle is the savior and must suffer for her sister" deal.

[BluishGreen]

Yes.  I think it's all fake.  There is no way Lisa will forgive, let alone "forget."  Those comments to Kyle were meant to needle Brandi, and they did.

 

Lisa is by far the most clever of all of them.

 

I think Kim and Brandi were her first, and easiest targets.  Yolanda, for the most part, got a pass, probably because she's sick, and possibly because of the Mohammed connection.  Kyle?  She's saving the hardest nut to crack for last.  Also Bravo gave Kyle a new ally this season, Lipsa.  She's biding her time.

Clever?-- I would describe that as evil.  Again-- if this view of Lisa V. is accepted,  it follows that Kyle's  opinion of Lisa V as an emotional chess player who preys on others-- the same opinion that both Lisa and  her many fans found so wrong, so unfair and so vicious-- is actually quite true.  Interesting.

[Umbelina]

I think it's just older and wiser and much more stealth.  I'd rather see Lisa stick a dagger in calmly than Kyle's OTT endless screaming/crying/histrionics, and me me me me me me, all about ME childishness.

 

ETA, I much prefer the more ladylike and clever take downs.  If I want to see people roll around in the gutter, constantly screaming and crying, I'd watch RHNJ.

Edited March 28, 2015 by Umbelina

[Rhetorica]

I agree with you completely on this. I really wonder about Kyle's role in that family. I kind of feel like although she wasn't the "Golden Child" that she may have been seen as the "Responsible One", which could amount to being the "Scapegoat" since anything that went wrong was then Kyle's fault because she should have been on top of it, been able to fix it, been able to help her sisters, etc. Kyle wasn't out of control like the other two. It's interesting to me that Big Kathy requested (required) Kyle to take care of junkie Kim. Why not Big Kathy's eldest, and Kim's older sister, Kathy? Why did she ask the youngest daughter and Kim's younger sister? It was, imo, an unhealthy, sad request because like you said, they had an unhealthy, sad family dynamic. I'll bet that Big Kathy's word was deemed more important than just about anything -- national and state laws, societal standards, religious dogma, etc. Breaking a promise to Big Kathy or letting her down was tantamount to heresy and a sin. Definitely a sick way of raising children.

Reasons are not always used as excuses. There are reasons/motivators/causes for what we often think, do, say, feel in life based on genetics, brain wiring, environment, traumatic situations. Knowing why doesn't mean all of your behavior is excused. But it can help someone figure out how to change it or work with it. A lot of people cant just grow up emotionally at the snap of a finger. No one can , actually. It's a process. It takes time and introspection and learning where you came from. That's psychology. Which is why Kyle really needs a good therapist to help her work through this, because she might be able to understand logically that Big Kathy's way of raising them was unhealthy but she might not understand in which ways that has affected her and how her current actions and attitude reflect that.

Yeah, I know psychology. My husband counseled and is now a psychology professor. We debate this all the time. In my opinion, far too often people won't take responsibility for their actions and blame it on their upbringing. Surely Kyle knows this sisterly relationship is not healthy. But instead of growing and taking control of her life, which would include counselling, she tries to make people take her side for validation. I need to admit that I'm passionate about excuses and playing victim because of my upbringing with a single, bi-polar mom. Without any education or counseling I decided not to be the mother she was. This may be affecting my opinion and I apologize if I offended anyone.

[WireWrap]

Yeah, I know psychology. My husband counseled and is now a psychology professor. We debate this all the time. In my opinion, far too often people won't take responsibility for their actions and blame it on their upbringing. Surely Kyle knows this sisterly relationship is not healthy. But instead of growing and taking control of her life, which would include counselling, she tries to make people take her side for validation. I need to admit that I'm passionate about excuses and playing victim because of my upbringing with a single, bi-polar mom. Without any education or counseling I decided not to be the mother she was. This may be affecting my opinion and I apologize if I offended anyone.

Well, we have seen no signs that Kyle is raising her daughters anything like her mother did her. Her daughters, Kyle's, seem to be normal, healthy, happy kids. Kyle only has issues with Kim and maybe Kathy but for the most part, her relationship with the other HWs has been normal, unlike Kim's relationship with the other HWs and Brandi has destroyed her relationship with all but Kim/Yolanda. IMO, Kim/Brandi are the problem HWs, not Kyle.

[Watermelon]

Again, though Kyle likes to SAY "mom told me to take care of you" she has never, not once, disputed Kim's claim that their mother asked the same thing of Kim.  It was a "take care of each other" request, not some "Kyle is the savior and must suffer for her sister" deal.

But if they aren't in the same space healthwise, it's not at all the same thing.  Added to the fact that with someone with the addiction issues Kim has, she probably was never or rarely in a space to actually take care of Kyle, anyway.

[WireWrap]

Again, though Kyle likes to SAY "mom told me to take care of you" she has never, not once, disputed Kim's claim that their mother asked the same thing of Kim.  It was a "take care of each other" request, not some "Kyle is the savior and must suffer for her sister" deal.

I have heard Kim say to Kyle that she "has been there for" her when Kyle says she has been there for Kim but I have never heard Kim say that she made a promise to her mother when she was dying to "take care of Kyle". What episode was this on because I must have missed it and I would like to hear/see her say that.

[Umbelina]

She's said it almost every single time Kyle does, unless Kyle says it in a talking head.

[LotusFlower]

I have heard Kim say to Kyle that she "has been there for" her when Kyle says she has been there for Kim but I have never heard Kim say that she made a promise to her mother when she was dying to "take care of Kyle". What episode was this on because I must have missed it and I would like to hear/see her say that.

Kim never said this because her mother never said this to her. Big Kathy asked this of Kyle only because of Kim's addictions, not in a "take care of each other" kind of way. Otherwise, why wasn't Kathy included in this declaration/request? It was specifically said to Kyle about Kim.

The scene with Kim telling Kyle she's been there for her stood out to me, too - it was vintage Kim. She's simply incapable of giving Kyle a compliment or credit, so she had to immediately diminish Kyle's care-taking by saying she engaged in care-taking as well, ie. they're equals in the sister department.

[Umbelina]

That's just not true.  Kim has said it.  REPEATEDLY.

[LotusFlower]

That's just not true.  Kim has said it.  REPEATEDLY.

If she said it repeatedly - examples? Scenes? Because I remember none.

[SwordQueen]

Yeah, I know psychology. My husband counseled and is now a psychology professor. We debate this all the time. In my opinion, far too often people won't take responsibility for their actions and blame it on their upbringing. Surely Kyle knows this sisterly relationship is not healthy. But instead of growing and taking control of her life, which would include counselling, she tries to make people take her side for validation. I need to admit that I'm passionate about excuses and playing victim because of my upbringing with a single, bi-polar mom. Without any education or counseling I decided not to be the mother she was. This may be affecting my opinion and I apologize if I offended anyone.

 

Oh, I get what you're saying, and I agree.  A lot of people though, from what I have learned, do not or cannot self-reflect in that way.  I think those of us who can often take for granted that we not only have that ability but also have interest in learning both about ourselves and the world/humanity at large. 

 

I think though, there's a huge difference between not being aware of how our wiring/childhoods cause us to act, and the blatant blaming of those things for how we act.  Some people know enough about themselves and psychology to know how to push the responsibility off onto their family members and their childhood.  Some people can be aware that the way they are today stems from their past, but have no idea how to go about correcting it, or if it can be corrected at all.  

 

I don't see Kyle as someone who is shifting responsibility from herself to her mother or her childhood.  I think she knows how fucked up it is logically but isn't aware of all of the ways it has affected her and how she still plays out that dynamic when it comes to her sister.  She seems pretty stable when it comes to Mauricio, their kids, and her in-laws but with her sisters, she falls back into that role that was set up for her as a child.  That's what she needs to work on, imo.  It's not something that happens overnight though.  It takes a lot of work sometimes. 

 

You are very lucky in that you were able to recognize that your family dynamics wasn't something you wanted to continue into adulthood and you were then able to take steps to avoid it.  Lucky.  Because most people are not able to do all of that on their own.  That's a very 'bootstrap' way of thinking, which works for some people but not most.  An ex bf of mine used to feel this way about drugs and especially about cigarette smoking.  He was really into drugs for most of his teenage and young adult years, and then one day decided he wanted to quit.  So he did.  Never looked back.  Same with cigarettes -- put down the pack one day and never touched them again.  He assumed that since he could do it, it was no big deal for everyone else to do it as well.  He was lucky that he never became addicted to the point where quitting was a struggle because as I'm sure most people here know, and from what we've seen on this show, substance abuse is a very difficult thing to stop, especially on one's own.  I was emotionally and sexually abused pretty badly by several people during my childhood and that has affected and invaded every single aspect of my life.  Not an excuse for my actions, but a reason why I may be driven to behave certain ways or why I am drawn to certain people and certain situations.  Being able to understand that though, doesn't mean it has been simple for me to correct my mindset, my beliefs, and my behaviors.  It's one thing to know, and a whole other thing to do, but to me, making a constant effort to improve oneself and to understand oneself is what really counts in this life. 

 

So while some people are able to pull themselves out of difficult situations easily or seemingly so, other people are not that lucky.  That doesn't make them weak or stupid or lazy or blame-shifters, on its face.  Some people really do need help, which is why psychiatrists and counsellors, like your husband was, are so necessary in society.  It's up to every individual to help themselves, which often means reaching out and asking for help from others, but for some, that's not so obvious.  I do see Kyle trying though, in her own way, to live a better life, and for the most part, she has.  Lifestyle-wise she's not much like Kim, or Kathy, for that matter and I think that's pretty telling, right there.  She's far from perfect, obviously, but I think in general, she tries, which is more than I can say about Kim.  YMMV of course.  lol 

[zoeysmom]

I have heard Kim say to Kyle that she "has been there for" her when Kyle says she has been there for Kim but I have never heard Kim say that she made a promise to her mother when she was dying to "take care of Kyle". What episode was this on because I must have missed it and I would like to hear/see her say that.

It was the episode where Kim wiggled her nose and the furniture went flying around the room or the episode where Kim won an Oscar.  Or maybe both. 

[talula]

Yes.  I think it's all fake.  There is no way Lisa will forgive, let alone "forget."  Those comments to Kyle were meant to needle Brandi, and they did.

 

Lisa is by far the most clever of all of them.

 

I think Kim and Brandi were her first, and easiest targets.  Yolanda, for the most part, got a pass, probably because she's sick, and possibly because of the Mohammed connection.  Kyle?  She's saving the hardest nut to crack for last.  Also Bravo gave Kyle a new ally this season, Lipsa.  She's biding her time.

 

Kyle may be next?!?

[Rhetorica]

Well, we have seen no signs that Kyle is raising her daughters anything like her mother did her. Her daughters, Kyle's, seem to be normal, healthy, happy kids. Kyle only has issues with Kim and maybe Kathy but for the most part, her relationship with the other HWs has been normal, unlike Kim's relationship with the other HWs and Brandi has destroyed her relationship with all but Kim/Yolanda. IMO, Kim/Brandi are the problem HWs, not Kyle.

No, WireWrap, I'm never said Kyle is a poor mother. I'm saying, evidently not well, that I made a decision on my own behavior and both she and Kim need to also. If constant bickering, screaming, and crying is what they want, so be it. But don't complain to everyone and try to form teams. I hope this is clearer. And I'm not even going to address the Kim/Brandi problem...

[Rhetorica]

Oh, I get what you're saying, and I agree. A lot of people though, from what I have learned, do not or cannot self-reflect in that way. I think those of us who can often take for granted that we not only have that ability but also have interest in learning both about ourselves and the world/humanity at large.

I think though, there's a huge difference between not being aware of how our wiring/childhoods cause us to act, and the blatant blaming of those things for how we act. Some people know enough about themselves and psychology to know how to push the responsibility off onto their family members and their childhood. Some people can be aware that the way they are today stems from their past, but have no idea how to go about correcting it, or if it can be corrected at all.

I don't see Kyle as someone who is shifting responsibility from herself to her mother or her childhood. I think she knows how fucked up it is logically but isn't aware of all of the ways it has affected her and how she still plays out that dynamic when it comes to her sister. She seems pretty stable when it comes to Mauricio, their kids, and her in-laws but with her sisters, she falls back into that role that was set up for her as a child. That's what she needs to work on, imo. It's not something that happens overnight though. It takes a lot of work sometimes.

You are very lucky in that you were able to recognize that your family dynamics wasn't something you wanted to continue into adulthood and you were then able to take steps to avoid it. Lucky. Because most people are not able to do all of that on their own. That's a very 'bootstrap' way of thinking, which works for some people but not most. An ex bf of mine used to feel this way about drugs and especially about cigarette smoking. He was really into drugs for most of his teenage and young adult years, and then one day decided he wanted to quit. So he did. Never looked back. Same with cigarettes -- put down the pack one day and never touched them again. He assumed that since he could do it, it was no big deal for everyone else to do it as well. He was lucky that he never became addicted to the point where quitting was a struggle because as I'm sure most people here know, and from what we've seen on this show, substance abuse is a very difficult thing to stop, especially on one's own. I was emotionally and sexually abused pretty badly by several people during my childhood and that has affected and invaded every single aspect of my life. Not an excuse for my actions, but a reason why I may be driven to behave certain ways or why I am drawn to certain people and certain situations. Being able to understand that though, doesn't mean it has been simple for me to correct my mindset, my beliefs, and my behaviors. It's one thing to know, and a whole other thing to do, but to me, making a constant effort to improve oneself and to understand oneself is what really counts in this life.

So while some people are able to pull themselves out of difficult situations easily or seemingly so, other people are not that lucky. That doesn't make them weak or stupid or lazy or blame-shifters, on its face. Some people really do need help, which is why psychiatrists and counsellors, like your husband was, are so necessary in society. It's up to every individual to help themselves, which often means reaching out and asking for help from others, but for some, that's not so obvious. I do see Kyle trying though, in her own way, to live a better life, and for the most part, she has. Lifestyle-wise she's not much like Kim, or Kathy, for that matter and I think that's pretty telling, right there. She's far from perfect, obviously, but I think in general, she tries, which is more than I can say about Kim. YMMV of course. lol

I go understand what you're saying and you said it very well. I do think Kyle knows how fucked up the relationship is with Kim, logically. That's why am frustrated with her. I would like to see her make the decision to take a break, evaluate her actions, and get counseling alone if Kim won't agree. I'm sorry about your childhood but glad you've overcome. I know how hard that is.

[film noire]

she received so much flak about it that she copied my silly "Run Kyle Run" cartoon onto her Facebook page. I have to give her credit for doing that and making fun of herself.

 

 Kyle helping herself to your intellectual property -- just to make herself look good -- is bullshit, IMO. She should've given you credit.

[AnnA]

 Kyle helping herself to your intellectual property -- just to make herself look good -- is bullshit, IMO. She should've given you credit.

 

I can't help but wonder how she got it.  She either had to copy it from this forum or someone sent it to her.

[rehoboth]

Kim never said this because her mother never said this to her. Big Kathy asked this of Kyle only because of Kim's addictions, not in a "take care of each other" kind of way. Otherwise, why wasn't Kathy included in this declaration/request? It was specifically said to Kyle about Kim.

The scene with Kim telling Kyle she's been there for her stood out to me, too - it was vintage Kim. She's simply incapable of giving Kyle a compliment or credit, so she had to immediately diminish Kyle's care-taking by saying she engaged in care-taking as well, ie. they're equals in the sister department.

I think Little Kathy was included as well.  Big Kathy asked her girls to look out for each other in her dying days.  When Kyle said to Kim that their mother asked Kyle to look out for Kim that was the part of the pact that pertained to Kyle.  Kyle was told to look after Kim and Little Kathy.

 

I have heard Kyle clarify (I'm not sure if it was in print or on WWHL or somewhere else) that all the sisters were asked to care for each other.  And Kim has stated this exact same thing as well after season 1.

[Rhetorica]

Kyle helping herself to your intellectual property -- just to make herself look good -- is bullshit, IMO. She should've given you credit.

Should've given her money.

[film noire]

Being able to understand that though, doesn't mean it has been simple for me to correct my mindset, my beliefs, and my behaviors.  It's one thing to know, and a whole other thing to do, but to me, making a constant effort to improve oneself and to understand oneself is what really counts in this life. 

If you have even one tenth of the presence in your life that you have in your writing about these issues, you are a mighty force indeed, SwordQueen.

Edited March 29, 2015 by film noire

[WireWrap]

She's said it almost every single time Kyle does, unless Kyle says it in a talking head.

No, Kim's says "I've been there for you" not that her mother told her to "Take care of Kyle" which is very different IMO.

 

No, WireWrap, I'm never said Kyle is a poor mother. I'm saying, evidently not well, that I made a decision on my own behavior and both she and Kim need to also. If constant bickering, screaming, and crying is what they want, so be it. But don't complain to everyone and try to form teams. I hope this is clearer. And I'm not even going to address the Kim/Brandi problem...

My comment about Kyle not continuing to teach her daughters the same as her mother did her/Kim/Kathy was as an example of how Kyle has broken away from her mother. As for Kyle not interacting with Kim, it is (at least right now) a big part of her/their job and until 1 of them is off the show, it will continue to happen.

[zoeysmom]

I can't help but wonder how she got it.  She either had to copy it from this forum or someone sent it to her.

Someone sent it to her-uncredited.  I am sure if you send her a tweet she will give you credit.  The big money is if Bravo uses it.  Was it on Twitter or Facebook?

[LotusFlower]

When Kyle said to Kim that their mother asked Kyle to look out for Kim that was the part of the pact that pertained to Kyle.  Kyle was told to look after Kim and Little Kathy.

 

I've never seen any scene where Kyle and Kim talked to each other about this. The only time it's been mentioned has been by Kyle in TH's , and always in reference to Kim's station, as in her addictions. If you were referencing the recent scene this season when Kim and Kyle were talking to each other in the 5, 7, 9 days after Poker Night, as WireWrap wrote, Kim telling Kyle she takes care of her (yea, right) is different than referencing their mother's edict.

[Wings]

I can't help but wonder how she got it.  She either had to copy it from this forum or someone sent it to her.

 

 

 

 Kyle helping herself to your intellectual property -- just to make herself look good -- is bullshit, IMO. She should've given you credit.

 

 

Anything posted on the internet is free game unless it has a copyright.  I would not be surprised to learn she reads this board. 

Edited March 29, 2015 by wings707

[zoeysmom]

Anything posted on the internet is free game unless it has a copyright.  I would not be surprised to learn she reads this board. 

Kyle's has said she does not read comments about her because they upset her. 

[nexxie]

Just wondering...

Kim and Brandi have tried to make the point (in mostly rude ways) that there is a double standard - that it's okay to talk about Kim's sobriety or Brandi's sloppy drinking, but not okay to focus on the other ladies' foibles.

In your opinion, have things been fair, or is it just easy to justify scrutiny of Kim and Brandi's issues because they're so volatile?

[nexxie]

Kyle's has said she does not read comments about her because they upset her.

Too bad - there are some good book suggestions for her here!

[Umbelina]

I think Little Kathy was included as well.  Big Kathy asked her girls to look out for each other in her dying days.  When Kyle said to Kim that their mother asked Kyle to look out for Kim that was the part of the pact that pertained to Kyle.  Kyle was told to look after Kim and Little Kathy.

 

I have heard Kyle clarify (I'm not sure if it was in print or on WWHL or somewhere else) that all the sisters were asked to care for each other.  And Kim has stated this exact same thing as well after season 1.

Yes, Kim has said it many times.  Practically every single time Kyle says it while in Kim's presence, Kim chimes in with it. 

 

Find a time Kyle says it when Kim is there, Kim says it back the vast majority of those times.  I'm pretty sure she also said it on a reunion.  Kyle has never contradicted her either.  I'm not looking for a link, and I'm not repeating this again.  I'm also not mistaken about it.

Edited March 29, 2015 by Umbelina

[WireWrap]

Just wondering...

Kim and Brandi have tried to make the point (in mostly rude ways) that there is a double standard - that it's okay to talk about Kim's sobriety or Brandi's sloppy drinking, but not okay to focus on the other ladies' foibles.

In your opinion, have things been fair, or is it just easy to justify scrutiny of Kim and Brandi's issues because they're so volatile?

I think Kim/Brandi are just trying to deflect their own bad behavior. If we saw, say Yolanda, get high or drunk, act like an aggressive fool on camera, I have no doubts that all the other HWs would be talking about her as they do Kim/Brandi. Seriously, what has Brandi talked about this season for the most part......Kim. LOL

Yes, Kim has said it many times.  Practically every single time Kyle says it while in Kim's presence, Kim chimes in with it. 

 

Find a time Kyle says it when Kim is there, Kim says it back the vast majority of those times.  I'm pretty sure she also said it on a reunion.  Kyle has never contradicted her either.  I'm not looking for a link, and I'm not repeating this again.  I'm also not mistaken about it.

IMO, saying you are there for someone is far different than saying your mother made you promise to take care of your sister. Kim has never said that she made any promise to her mother when she was dying let alone that she promised to "Take care of Kyle/Kathy". Kim has never made that claim.

Edited March 29, 2015 by WireWrap

[SwordQueen]

I go understand what you're saying and you said it very well. I do think Kyle knows how fucked up the relationship is with Kim, logically. That's why am frustrated with her. I would like to see her make the decision to take a break, evaluate her actions, and get counseling alone if Kim won't agree. I'm sorry about your childhood but glad you've overcome. I know how hard that is.

 

Thank you for saying that.  I'm always a work in progress.  lol   I have a lot of admiration for you, and those like you, who seem to have always had a strong sense of self, in that you knew who you were and knew who you didn't want to become and you manifested it.  Some people aren't able to accomplish that even by the end of their lives.  I had/have a bad relationship with my mother and although by nature, I'm not much like her, I've also made a conscious decision to treat others differently than she does.  I wonder if it's just easier for people to decide to not be like their parent(s) when they don't naturally have the same personalities/mindsets, like it's easier to see traits in others that are opposite of your own than the traits that are the same or similar? 

 

I am also so frustrated by Kyle.  I want to take her by the shoulders and shake some sense into her!  lol  I think many of us here feel similarly, because so many of us on this board seem to have gone through and are going through some really hard stuff and we can relate to some degree.  I also think that's why most of us are on here to begin with -- we don't take things at face value and we're always digging deeper to uncover the real motivations behind people's actions, because we've had to do that with ourselves.   

 

With Kyle, she's frustrating to me because she seems to have so many wonderful things in her life, from a loving, handsome, hard-working husband, to beautiful, healthy, seemingly well-adjusted kids, to intimate long-term friendships, to a beautiful home and plenty of money coming from several profitable businesses.  But she pours so much energy into the dysfunctional relationship with her sister and into dwelling in the past.   It feels like such a waste. 

 

I think I have been giving Kyle so much credit lately is because I do see that she is trying.  She's not like Kim or Kathy in their hectic, dysfunctional marriages, issues with their children (the Hilton's stuck up, drugged up kids and Kim's kids having to threaten to cut their mother off if she doesn't quit the drugs), drug and partying proclivities, etc.  I give her credit for that because she wasn't handed all of those things above, she's worked for it and put in the effort.  She also kind of bucked her family dynamic in marrying Mauricio, who wasn't some heir to a fortune with a high society name.  She seems to have been putting in some effort to change herself since this show began as well.  I really disliked her on Season 1, with her immaturity, pettiness and mean-girl streak.  I do believe that she has taken that criticism and worked on altering her behavior.  In fact, I think this show has done her a huge favor in not only highlighting her own flaws that she can work on but in highlighting the dysfunctional relationship she has with Kim.  I think this show may be the push she needed to reassess that relationship, or at least I'm hoping. 

 

I'm not just somehow biased towards Kyle.  If Kim or Brandi had some self-awareness, humility, and gratitude and put in some effort to change what wasn't working, I'd have given them some credit as well.  But both take their inner demons and push them outward into the world by projecting their self-hatred onto others and blaming people for their own behavior.  It's hard enough to deal with people whose issues are reflected so inwardly that they self-destruct (being a person with issues, I can say this. lol) but it's beyond reasonable to have to deal with people who are so mean, rude, and thoughtless, that they take pleasure in destroying everyone around them as well.  Neither are healthy but I guess, personally, I draw the line in being sympathetic and supportive towards those who don't give a damn that they hurt others because they, themselves, are hurting. 

[LotusFlower]

Find a time Kyle says it when Kim is there, Kim says it back the vast majority of those times.

Kyle has only said it in TH's, so of course Kim is never present.

Kim and Brandi have tried to make the point (in mostly rude ways) that there is a double standard - that it's okay to talk about Kim's sobriety or Brandi's sloppy drinking, but not okay to focus on the other ladies' foibles.

In your opinion, have things been fair, or is it just easy to justify scrutiny of Kim and Brandi's issues because they're so volatile?

I don't know if I would say "volatile" so much as "present" and "in your face." Kim and Brandi show up at events either drunk or high and act like fools, and then get talked about. Or they're just horribly abusive, so that gets talked about. The other ladies get talked about and criticized, too, but it seems milder in tone because the behavior or infractions are more trivial or minor.

[Umbelina]

She's said "Mom asked me to take care of you too, for us to take care of EACH OTHER."