More Dramatic Than the Show: Behind the Scenes

[stealinghome]

Speaking of PaleyFest: if this is true (and I'm more inclined to believe that it is than it isn't), I just have to ask, is there no end to the middle finger the show is giving Archie Panjabi?

 

Separately, I agree that it's total bullshit that the Kings are acting like the Kalinda/Alicia freeze was the plan all along to raise expectations--and also that if there IS any scene between them, it will be entirely because fans demanded it--but what else are they going to say? "Julianna Margulies is a massive asshole and refused to work with Archie"? I would love that, but we all know that's not going to happen....

Edited March 9, 2015 by stealinghome

[Kromm]

Speaking of PaleyFest: if this is true (and I'm more inclined to believe that it is than it isn't), I just have to ask, is there no end to the middle finger the show is giving Archie Panjabi?

 

Separately, I agree that it's total bullshit that the Kings are acting like the Kalinda/Alicia freeze was the plan all along to raise expectations--and also that if there IS any scene between them, it will be entirely because fans demanded it--but what else are they going to say? "Julianna Margulies is a massive asshole and refused to work with Archie"? I would love that, but we all know that's not going to happen....

Wow.

I guess the Kings "secret plan" is that Archie and Julianna can't even be on a stage at the same time for a panel. You know.... "to raise expectations".

If any of you reading that believe it, please PM me. I have a bridge connecting Brooklyn and Manhattan to sell you.

[Artsda]

LOL Like anyone would believe this 2 year not sharing a scene is intentional. Didn't MC basically confirm it in an interview when asked?

[photo fox]

The thing that makes it so obvious to me is that the two characters DO interact... on the phone. Which of course doesn't require the two actresses to be in set together (or even at the studio at the same time).

Archie, run far and fast. And take Matt Czuchry with you.

eta: stealinghome, not sure about the background story, but it's definitely true that AP made that tweet: https://twitter.com/PanjabiArchie/status/573507716435603456?s=02

[Kromm]

The thing that makes it so obvious to me is that the two characters DO interact... on the phone. Which of course doesn't require the two actresses to be in set together (or even at the studio at the same time).

Archie, run far and fast. And take Matt Czuchry with you.

You realize, I bet, that some people actually somehow think that when characters on a show speak to each other on a phone that it means that the two actors are actually speaking to each other.  Which in fact is very RARELY true, if ever (occasionally they'll have the second actor off to the side on set saying his or her side of the lines but more often it's an un-miked Production Assistant, who's voice carries to the actor but not the mikes recording that scene).   But that's obvious to savvy people on a board like this, and maybe the Kings just assume Ma and Pa Neilson don't see what's obvious--that the two actors have been totally 100% shielded from each other's presence for years.

 

The level of dysfunction/amount of hatred necessary between two actors for such to be necessary is mind-boggling.  I bet if they DO now plan a final scene between the two, they're probably going to have to close the set and threaten the hell out of everybody to stay mum about what actually goes on shooting that scene.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Kromm

[WearyTraveler]

I have never followed the BTS on this show.  What started this feud? Does anyone know?

[Black Knight]

So true, Kromm. Thanks for laying it out. The amount of writing around the show has had to do to ensure that Kalinda and Alicia only ever speak by phone and are never in even big group scenes together, thus meaning the actresses don't have to be on the same set ever, is truly amazing. I've never seen anything like it. When costars are feuding, normally one of them gets dropped fast or they are basically told to suck it up. If they had a big storyline together it might be ended, but the writers don't go to the lengths of keeping them even out of group scenes where they don't really need to work together. GW couldn't even have Kalinda and Alicia sitting quietly in the same courtroom observing Cary's court proceedings. They could have been positioned rows apart and given no lines or looks at each other, but apparently even that is too much to ask.

[stealinghome]

eta: stealinghome, not sure about the background story, but it's definitely true that AP made that tweet: https://twitter.com/PanjabiArchie/status/573507716435603456?s=02

Oh yeah, no, sorry, I should have been more specific. I wasn't questioning the tweet itself (I looked it up too before posting!) but whether or not it's true that AP didn't know about the show being at PaleyFest. On the surface I find that hard to believe--I think it's more likely that that was her very diplomatic way of saying she wasn't invited--but, you know, despite that fact that I think Panjabi is awesome and Margulies blows, I want to recognize that it's not like Panjabi is unbiased here, and may be spinning the events slightly to be in her favor. :)

 

I have never followed the BTS on this show.  What started this feud? Does anyone know?

No one really knows what started the feud--there's a lot of speculation about egos, storylines, etc--but the exact origin is a big mystery. But I think the general consensus is that, however it started, Margulies has been a huge dick to Panjabi as a result. If you read enough interviews, it becomes pretty clear that Margulies utterly loathes the Kalinda character and that the whole "Kalinda and Alicia can't be in the same scene together" rule is entirely her doing.

 

 

Someone in the article on PaleyFest said in the comments that

Wow, two years and a half intended separation, just to raise expectations, it sure should be a very big pay-off – like Alicia and Kalinda making out in the elevator.

To which I say, forget making out--at this point they better have sex on Alicia's desk in full view of the whole office, to justify the level of non-interaction! Because that's how high MY expectations have been raised, show! (And I don't even watch anymore!)

Edited March 9, 2015 by stealinghome

[photo fox]

I have never followed the BTS on this show.  What started this feud? Does anyone know?

No one really knows what started the feud--there's a lot of speculation about egos, storylines, etc--but the exact origin is a big mystery. But I think the general consensus is that, however it started, Margulies has been a huge dick to Panjabi as a result. If you read enough interviews, it becomes pretty clear that Margulies utterly loathes the Kalinda character and that the whole "Kalinda and Alicia can't be in the same scene together" rule is entirely her doing.

Yep, pretty much. I've never really heard any real rumors, it was more that somebody noticed, "Hey! Alica and Kalinda haven't been in a scene together for a couple of episodes. That's weird." And then it went on and on, and gained traction on the interwebz, and then the Kings started being asked about it in interviews and totally evading the question.

And now it's been over two seasons, and none of their explanations make any sense. Sure, they may never be friends again. But they've worked together (by phone) off and on during that time, Kalinda's lover has been Alicia's partner, they interact with the same three or four characters on every episode, but they're never in the same room. Never. Alicia's been in countless scenes with Peter, Castro, Canning, David, and she's not friends with any of them, either.

The real kicker for me was having them not even interact (except again by phone) in the aftermath of Will's death. Will was shown to really be Kalinda's closest platonic friend, boss, coworker, mentor. AP, JM, and CB are the show's triumvirate of Emmy-winning heavy hitters. Why in the world would they exclude Kalinda from that post-memorial scene? It doesn't make sense.

Add to that Matt's Czuchry's complete refusal to address the question in this interview, and I fully believe where there's smoke, there's fire. He's good friends with AP, and not one to typically bullshit an answer.

 

When the announcement that was made that she was leaving, there were all these reports surfacing counting the number of episodes that have passed since Julianna Margulies and Archie Panjabi shared a scene together. It’s a lot of episodes.

Yes, I’m familiar with that. So much of that is story driven, in terms of where those two characters are. It’s story driven, just as Kalinda and Cary getting closer together is or Alicia, Diane, and Cary getting closer together is, Kalinda and Alicia’s characters have grown farther apart. That’s the way the whole show is dictated, by the stories that are organic to tell.

So there’s no behind-the-scenes discord going on?

It’s all story driven, as far as that’s concerned. Anything beyond that is a question to talk to the Kings about, not really a question for me. It’s story driven and it’s a showrunner’s world.

[stealinghome]

And now it's been over two seasons, and none of their explanations make any sense. Sure, they may never be friends again. But they've worked together (by phone) off and on during that time, Kalinda's lover has been Alicia's partner, they interact with the same three or four characters on every episode, but they're never in the same room. Never. Alicia's been in countless scenes with Peter, Castro, Canning, David, and she's not friends with any of them, either.

Frankly, I don't buy the "they can't be friends" BS either. Alicia and Kalinda were well on their way to repairing the friendship through the middle of S4 (and it was one of S3/early S4's best storylines). I don't care if it's realistic or not--like the show is at all realistic about any other aspect of life! Not. So, sorry, not buying the "they can"t be friends" excuse either, Kings. That's weak sauce. They were friends, and then something changed.

 

The only thing that seems clear to me is that the feud predates S4. Because it seems to me that the Kalinda/Alicia freeze started at the exact same time as the awful Nick storyline was (mercifully) prematurely axed because everyone hated it--and really that's when Kalinda's character started being minimized in general. (And if memory serves, late S4 was when Margulies really started yapping about Kalinda and Kalinda/Alicia, making her distaste VERY known. She'd kept a good lid on it before that.) So my guess has always been that whatever was going on BTS predated S4, but Margulies was able to use the disastrousness of the Nick storyline as leverage to be a huge ass to Panjabi in a way she hadn't been able to before. Because she doesn't pull that kind of crap in mid-S4 unless she's been nursing that grudge for a loooong time.

 

I have to say that I am begrudgingly impressed at how well the show has kept a lid on specifics, though. If it wasn't for the fact that Margulies totally lacks professionalism, no one would know about it at all, and it's amazing that everyone keeps asking about the feud and not getting any real information.

Edited March 9, 2015 by stealinghome

[milkyaqua]

JM stated in an interview that she didn't think Alicia would be friends with Kalinda because she'd slept with her husband (I posted that interview on this blog or another some time back).  So whatever the Kings are trying to sell, it's only because JM in all likelihood put it in motion.  Whether it was because Archie's character was so popular or not, who really knows except for the folks involved.

 

But regardless, it's silly of the Kings to try and explain it now that Archie's leaving the show.  As has been said, the split between the two has only been made even more noticeable with JM as a producer.

 

Found it!

 

“I think that’s kind of played out because of circumstance,” she said. “I doubt she’ll be able to trust that friendship fully. I think Kalinda’s character seems to have gone in a different direction.

“What keeps the show interesting and sort of satisfying is to see other people come into [Alicia]’s life to open her up,” she continued. “She needs female friendship, but she needs to start from scratch. She can’t be pouring her heart out to someone who once slept with her husband… It’s just not going to happen. It doesn’t seem realistic.”

Edited March 9, 2015 by milkyaqua

[GHScorpiosRule]

The Kings and Julianna Marguiles are all full of shit.

 

That is all.

[Noreaster]

Isn't this all still speculation?  No real basis to suggest that Julianna is being an asshole or treating other people poorly.  This chatter always seemed more like speculation by Kalinda/Archie fans. I agree there is probably something behind the scenes that keeps the two actresses apart.  But no one knows why.  

 

Personally, I completely agree with Julianna's view that Kalinda and Alicia shouldn't be friends. Doesn't make sense after the Peter/Kalinda affair was discovered. The Kalinda character has become so cartoonish/comic book-like anyway.  I can't tell if it's just the writing or if Archie is not that good of an actress.  

[pennben]

Or a producer decided to sideline Archie? 

 

I for one was happy they aborted the Kalinda/ex storyline because the writing was ludicrous.  Then, they never found a way back to awesome Kalinda.  That she apparently was not allowed in the same room as Alicia made it more obvious that she was going to be on the outskirts of every story.

[cleo]

Myself, the argument that they wouldn't be friends after the affair doesn't hold water. So she won't be friends with Kalinda but she keeps on sleeping with the guy who cheated on her? I realize she isn't now, but she did for quite a long while. I don't like that this reason for their separation, is never questioned, and just accepted as a valid reason. I hate that stereotype or dynamic where person A has a cheating spouse, and rather than hold the spouse accountable they go after the person their spouse cheated with. 

 

I also hope they do not have any additional scenes before Archie's departure because it's too little, too late. I would respect them a lot more if they just owned what they were doing rather than waffling at the end to appease fans, which is what it would seem like to me now. 

[milkyaqua]

I don't think most of us have a problem with Alicia and Kalinda not being friends under those circumstances.  However, the fact that they still work in the same firm and never have any interaction at all?  That's what people have always found hard to believe.

 

That being said, I don't want the Kings to over tax their brains and try to find a reason for Alicia and Kalinda to share scenes now that Archie is leaving.  If they haven't been able to find a reason for them to intereact after all of this time, then just leave it be.

Edited March 9, 2015 by milkyaqua

[GHScorpiosRule]

I don't think most of us have a problem with Alicia and Kalinda not being friends under those circumstances.  However, the fact that they still work in the same firm and never have any interaction at all?  That's what people have always found hard to believe.

 

 

EXACTLY. That's the main problem I've had with JM's constant whatever about how Alicia and Kalinda couldn't be friends because Kalinda had sex with Peter.  Even though Peter tried to tell her it wasn't Kalinda's fault. Whatever. Okay. Fine.

 

BUT, Kalinda, at the time, was still the firm's ONLY investigator, and Alicia, one of their high profile attorneys, who needed an investigator to find out stuff. Put the personal shit aside and just fucking work together. It's why I call BULLSHIT on JM and the Kings.

 

And the ONLY reason they brought in Kalinda's ex in that horrid horrid 50 Shades of SUCK storyline was because that "book" was selling like fire and it was all anyone could talk about, and of course, when that storyline FAILED, the Kings said, Hey that's how we planned it from the beginning!

 

That's why I say JM and the Kings are full of shit. Because they are.

[Noreaster]

I think there are a lot of reasons why Alicia would try to work things out with Peter (family, career, even love), but little reason to remain friends with Kalinda.  Actually it's unrealistic to even attempt the former if you're doing the latter.  

 

Anyway, I agree there must be a reason why Julianna and Archie have not shared any scenes together in a long time. But viewers don't really know the details. Yet many continue to say that it must be all Julianna's doing and she must be an asshole and treating Archie poorly. 

[milkyaqua]

And the ONLY reason they brought in Kalinda's ex in that horrid horrid 50 Shades of SUCK storyline was because that "book" was selling like fire and it was all anyone could talk about, and of course, when that storyline FAILED, the Kings said, Hey that's how we planned it from the beginning!

 

Except of course in one of their interviews they also said it was the audience's fault for not getting their vision.  It couldn't be because of bad writing and bad casting...

[Black Knight]

Alicia spent much of a season estranged from Will/Diane, but as she once commented to Cary during it, she was seeing them more than when she worked at LG. They were opposing each other in court constantly - yet, oddly, Kalinda was never needed to run in to the courtroom during any of those trials to share a key piece of information with Will and Diane, even though that's a GW trope and it would also have been interesting dramatically to see the uncomfortable looks or Alicia being "Uh oh" upon experiencing what it's like to be on the other side knowing what it means when Kalinda shows up in court. (Geneva's best line ever: "Whenever I see that bitch, I know we're in trouble.")

 

The show did repair the Alicia/Kalinda friendship, in what I thought was a realistic and organic way, and their friendship was referred to as such even after the actresses stopped sharing scenes. But even if I ignore all the episodes spent on repairing the friendship, it doesn't explain anything. There's mileage to be gotten out of them as enemies or as strained coworkers, something the Kings acknowledged and held out as a possibility back when JM originally dropped a bomb in the press about no more Kalicia after their arc of becoming friends again had already played out onscreen. Even if Kalinda and Alicia were simply set to "completely neutral coworkers" it still doesn't make sense, because the writers have had to actively write around having them onscreen together. It's not a case of the writers having to go out of their way to write scenes between Kalinda and Alicia, it's a case of the writers having to go out of their way to make sure they are never together onscreen even when it makes sense for them to be - they work at the same law firm now, and there's what happened with Will last year and with Cary this year. Notice how when Cary or Diane is the trial attorney, Kalinda runs into the courtroom with pieces of evidence or can be seen observing like she always has, but if Alicia is the trial attorney, Kalinda can't ever be in the courtroom for any reason.

 

That leads to a lot of fingerpointing at JM, because out of the two actresses, she's the one with the power to nix storylines and to make the writers go out of their way not to put Alicia in scenes with Kalinda even when it makes sense. AP is not a producer. AP is also on record as saying she'd like to see scenes between Kalinda and Alicia but that the writers told her the absence of scenes would continue, so that's the other reason for fingerpointing at JM - the lack of scenes matches what JM has said she wants, not what AP has said she wants or what the Kings always said they wanted, before JM took the whole thing public by basically declaring the friendship dead in an interview after the friendship had already been revived onscreen. The Kings said outright at that time that they weren't going to get into a public fight with JM, so since then they've had to say one ridiculous thing after another. But until that point, the arc of the Kalinda/Alicia relationship matched what the Kings always said they wanted, for them to be friends again. When what is happening onscreen matches what only one of three involved parties had expressed as their desire, the finger is going to be pointed at that one party.

[Ohmo]

Yet many continue to say that it must be all Julianna's doing and she must be an asshole and treating Archie poorly.

 

Because the likelihood of that being the case is extraordinarily high.

 

Julianna is the "name" in this equation.  She's got enormous leverage in the situation.  She is the producer of the show.  She is the star of the show.  She is the one who I've read wanted the show filmed in New York because she didn't want to move.  Archie became popular when people began to enjoy Kalinda and the Alicia/Kalinda friendship.  Then, all of a sudden, Alicia and Kalinda are done as friends?  In the short term, I could understand, but I never read any indication from Julianna or the Kings that there was ever any thought to restarting the friendship or even getting the two characters to exchange more than 2-3 sentences in a scene. 

 

Archie has said nothing (or almost nothing) and Julianna (who would have the power to change things if she so desired) has pretty much said (I'm paraphrasing here) that a Kalinda/Alicia reconciliation was not going to happen.  Of the two actresses in this equation, one has the power and means to exert a significant amount of professional force.  The other does not.  There has been nothing that I have read that indicates thar Archie has been a problem on set that would explain what's going on.  After reading all of the drama about Scandal and Columbus Short, something like that would come to light (at least a little bit) if Archie were doing something or was responsible for something.  Julianna has done nothing in her position to attempt to imply that the rumor is not true.  If Archie were treating Julianna "poorly," Archie would be publicly out the door a la Columbus Short or Isiah Washington in order to mitigate the loss of Kalinda.

 

I like The Good Wife, but I wish it would just be acknowledged what's going on.  People aren't dumb, and there's been plenty of opportunity to show that there is no issue.  That hasn't happened, so for Pete's sake, just admit there is one.  Something like "Julianna and Archie have had their challenges through the years, but both women are extraordinarily talented, and we wish Archie well in her new endeavors."

Edited March 9, 2015 by Ohmo

[stealinghome]

That leads to a lot of fingerpointing at JM, because out of the two actresses, she's the one with the power to nix storylines and to make the writers go out of their way not to put Alicia in scenes with Kalinda even when it makes sense. AP is not a producer. AP is also on record as saying she'd like to see scenes between Kalinda and Alicia but that the writers told her the absence of scenes would continue, so that's the other reason for fingerpointing at JM - the lack of scenes matches what JM has said she wants, not what AP has said she wants or what the Kings always said they wanted, before JM took the whole thing public by basically declaring the friendship dead in an interview after the friendship had already been revived onscreen. The Kings said outright at that time that they weren't going to get into a public fight with JM, so since then they've had to say one ridiculous thing after another. But until that point, the arc of the Kalinda/Alicia relationship matched what the Kings always said they wanted, for them to be friends again. When what is happening onscreen matches what only one of three involved parties had expressed as their desire, the finger is going to be pointed at that one party.

This. The moment Margulies declared the friendship dead--after the Kings had been trotting around saying "we're looking forward to rebuilding the friendship!", as had Panjabi--and the Kings had to then backtrack and say that they weren't getting into a public fight with Margulies? That made it pretty clear from where the Kalinda/Alicia freeze was coming. And lo and behold, Margulies said that and she and Panjabi haven't shared the screen since. (Panjabi, for the record, has been consistent in saying she wants more Kalinda/Alicia but it's not up to her, it's up to the writers/producers.)

 

Also, to be frank, I don't really care about the feud itself except as it affects the show. I don't care about whether Margulies murdered Panjabi's puppy, or Panjabi curb-stomped Margulies' kid, or if they got into it with knives over Sunday dinner. Whatever. What I do care about is the lack of professionalism being shown by letting these off-screen incidents affect the on-screen relationship/story being told, and that's why my irritation is mostly directed at Margulies, because as others have outlined, it's pretty clear that she's the driving force between the Kalinda and Alicia freeze on the show. And I do think that is unprofessional and is Margulies being an ass, because she's letting/allowing whatever happened with her and Panjabi personally really negatively affect Panjabi's career. (And even if they have no personal beef and it really is all about Alicia hating Kalinda forever--which I flat-out don't believe because it wouldn't necessitate the actresses NOT sharing scenes in over two seasons, but even if it were true--Margulies is still using her power as a producer to interfere with the writing and therefore affect Panjabi's place on the show and career. Still very not cool and definitely something Panjabi is well within her rights to be pissed about.)

[Noreaster]

This all still reads as speculation to me and wanting to bash Julianna. I'm not ready to go that far. Storyline disagreements and acting like an asshole are different things. Who knows. There also could be other reasons. Maybe Archie's behavior was problematic. Maybe the two had a falling out and they couldn't fake it onscreen and the producers decided that they would keep them apart. No one knows. But it's almost stated like fact here that Julianna is the wrong party.

 

Some are suggesting that Archie has been treated poorly. I don't agree based on what we see onscreen. I actually never even noticed the lack of scenes between Archie and Julianna for a long time.  It was only because of these boards (this one and TWoP) where there are a ton of Kalinda/Archie fans.  And apparently a lot of Alicia/Julianna hate.  

 

And based on these last few posts above, it seems like some people want to take the Kings' at their word in the past, but also want to turn around and call bullshit on their recent comments. That's selectively choosing what to believe. People seeing what they want to see. I'm not convinced. I'm wary of internet chatter and speculation being repeated often enough that it somehow gets accepted as fact. I feel like that may be happening here.  

[photo fox]

Some are suggesting that Archie has been treated poorly. I don't agree based on what we see onscreen.

I'm not sure if AP is suffering, exactly, but I definitely DO think it's impacting her on screen. With a few extremely rare exceptions, Alicia's story is the A plot (which only makes sense, as she's the title character). If JM and AP can't be written into any scenes together, that means Kalinda's story is only ever going to be the B plot at best. That's a really bad position to be in as an actor trying to build your resume. And it seems totally backward from what showrunners usually do with their breakout stars, which love Kalinda/AP or not, she clearly was after the first couple of seasons. Most Supporting Actor Emmy winners get better/more stories, not worse/less.

In any case, I think it's clear both these ladies will be happier once Archie has her own show. Hopefully it will be a really great fit for her and they can both move on from this separately.

[Noreaster]

I see what you're saying, but I just never really noticed. Kalinda still got a ton of screen time.

Personally I think the showrunners ruined the Kalinda character by making up the Peter/Kalinda past. It was a plot point that went nowhere except to separate Alicia and Peter temporarily and ruin the Alicia/Kalinda relationship forever. The show can't have Hilary Clinton becoming friends with one of Bill's affairs.

[WearyTraveler]

Whatever is going on behind the scenes, I feel compelled to agree with the poster above who mentioned the lack of professionalism.

I don't have any favorite characters / actors in this show (wait! Christine Baranski is awesome, so I guess if I had to pick one, it'd be her).  I never liked nurse Carol on ER, but I liked Margoulis' acting in the pilot and on season one enough to continue watching, not mind-blowingly good, or anything, but good enough.  The first time I saw Punjabi was on this show and I never thought she was super talented either (although that might have been more the character than the actress - I've never liked the over sexualized, kick ass female trope, with the dove eyes, and the sexy voice).

 

So, I'll precede my next comment by saying I don't have a horse on this race.  I do think it's very unprofessional that two characters have to be written separated, to the detriment of the organic development of the show because the actors don't get along.  Take Dexter, for example, Michael C. Hall and Jennifer Carpenter got married and then divorced (because he cheated on her with a recurring guest star) during the run of the series and they shared scenes until the very last episode, without their personal lives, good or bad, affecting the storylines on screen.  They even had to make out a couple of times, after they had already divorced, and they handled it brilliantly (that particular storyline, sucked really hard, but the actors handled it very well).

 

I think it's ridiculous that two professional actors, who have both been praised for their work by their industry peers (through nominations and actual awards), can't find a way to put their differences aside and do their jobs.  Or, if the problem is someone else, other than the actresses (producers, pissed off network executive, whatever) that they would let their personal feelings dominate them so much as to affect a show that used to bring with it great ratings and media buzz.  It's absurd.

[Kromm]

Isn't this all still speculation?  No real basis to suggest that Julianna is being an asshole or treating other people poorly.  This chatter always seemed more like speculation by Kalinda/Archie fans. I agree there is probably something behind the scenes that keeps the two actresses apart.  But no one knows why.  

 

Personally, I completely agree with Julianna's view that Kalinda and Alicia shouldn't be friends. Doesn't make sense after the Peter/Kalinda affair was discovered. The Kalinda character has become so cartoonish/comic book-like anyway.  I can't tell if it's just the writing or if Archie is not that good of an actress.  

Because this isn't about if they appear as friends on the show.  The issue is that the two actresses can't, don't even appear on the same set at the same time ever (keeping in mind that we know that even an onscreen phone conversation doesn't require any actual interaction).  The official line comes off sounding like a weak pathetic ruse, because the issue of if Kalinda and Alicia would still be friends is totally irrelevant.  You don't need to be friends to appear in the same time in the same place--there's NO logical connection between the friendship between the characters being stalled and the actors never being together, ever.  None.

[stealinghome]

The show can't have Hilary Clinton becoming friends with one of Bill's affairs.

Sure it could. This show has had far more ludicrous, reality-bending, ridiculous things happen on it. (Though I agree with you that Peter and Kalinda having a ONS was a stupid writing decision that was sloppily done and really detracted from the show.) And I stand by my comment that before the freeze at the end of S4 happened, Alicia and Kalinda had become friends again...

 

...but that doesn't really matter, because as others have said, it's not really about the Kalinda/Alicia friendship and whether or not a friendship is believable. It's about the fact that Margulies and Panjabi haven't acted together in over two years! I mean, someone find me another show where one of the leading supporting characters has gone over two years without a single scene with the show's lead actor. It's so crazy that it boggles the mind! I've never, ever seen anything like it! It's nuts!

Edited March 10, 2015 by stealinghome

[Black Knight]

This all still reads as speculation to me and wanting to bash Julianna. I'm not ready to go that far. Storyline disagreements and acting like an asshole are different things. Who knows. There also could be other reasons. Maybe Archie's behavior was problematic. Maybe the two had a falling out and they couldn't fake it onscreen and the producers decided that they would keep them apart. No one knows. But it's almost stated like fact here that Julianna is the wrong party.

 

Some are suggesting that Archie has been treated poorly. I don't agree based on what we see onscreen. I actually never even noticed the lack of scenes between Archie and Julianna for a long time.  It was only because of these boards (this one and TWoP) where there are a ton of Kalinda/Archie fans.  And apparently a lot of Alicia/Julianna hate.  

 

And based on these last few posts above, it seems like some people want to take the Kings' at their word in the past, but also want to turn around and call bullshit on their recent comments. That's selectively choosing what to believe. People seeing what they want to see. I'm not convinced. I'm wary of internet chatter and speculation being repeated often enough that it somehow gets accepted as fact. I feel like that may be happening here.  

The reason JM gets called out as the party in the wrong is because she's the one on record arguing against any scenes, while AP is on record that she wants to have Kalinda/Alicia scenes. It could be said that that's just calculation on her part, to make herself look good and JM bad, but that would truly be speculation. Factually, what we have is what JM and AP have said in various interviews.

 

As for the difference between what the Kings have said in the past and what they are saying now, the difference is that what they said in the past matched what was onscreen. They talked about how they considered the Alicia/Kalinda relationship a core one and how excited they were to rebuild the friendship, and onscreen we got an entire arc of the friendship being rebuilt. They spent a season's worth of episodes on that arc, from S3b through S4a. At the end of S4a, onscreen all was fine between Alicia and Kalinda - they were hanging out together, working well together, looking out for each other personally and professionally - but suddenly in S4b they stopped actually having scenes together. Fans wondered a bit, but mostly thought that maybe there just wasn't screentime for any scenes between them for a few episodes but something would come soon. Meanwhile they continued to act as friends and be referred to as friends. And then JM came out with an interview where she said there wasn't any need for Kalinda/Alicia scenes, the characters were going in different directions and that was that. That's fact, not speculation. That's when fans really began worrying. The Kings were forced to address JM's comments in an interview and that's when they said that they weren't going to get into a public fight with JM over the Kalinda/Alicia relationship. Since then, things the Kings have said have been patently ridiculous. For example, they claimed last season that Kalinda and Alicia weren't having scenes together because of the structural difficulties presented by the two characters being at separate law firms. Yet somehow Alicia was managing to have lots of scenes with Will and Diane and David Lee, while Kalinda had scenes with Cary and Robyn. And now these structural barriers have been eliminated because Kalinda and Alicia are back at the same law firm, yet still they haven't had any scenes.

 

The fact is that what the Kings would say about Kalinda/Alicia used to match what was happening onscreen and be inherently logical, and since the "we're not getting into a public fight with JM" fiasco what the Kings say has been illogical and doesn't match what's onscreen. If someone tells me it's raining and I look outside and I see it's raining, what they say matches what I see. If the next day they tell me the sun is shining and I look outside and it's still raining, well...I guess you could call it selective belief for me to believe the person in the first instance and not in the second, but there was a concrete reality against which to check their statements. In the case of the Kings, we can check what's onscreen against what they say in the press, and what's onscreen either gives their statements credibility (as in the case of spending so much time over so many episodes carefully rebuilding the relationship while talking in the press about how much they love the relationship) or makes them look rather ridiculous (as in the case of claiming structural barriers, that strangely didn't prevent any other two characters with the same structural barriers from interacting).

[jb1183]

Myself, the argument that they wouldn't be friends after the affair doesn't hold water. So she won't be friends with Kalinda but she keeps on sleeping with the guy who cheated on her? I realize she isn't now, but she did for quite a long while. I don't like that this reason for their separation, is never questioned, and just accepted as a valid reason. I hate that stereotype or dynamic where person A has a cheating spouse, and rather than hold the spouse accountable they go after the person their spouse cheated with. 

 

I also hope they do not have any additional scenes before Archie's departure because it's too little, too late. I would respect them a lot more if they just owned what they were doing rather than waffling at the end to appease fans, which is what it would seem like to me now. 

Something else that irks the hell out of me, besides that the creative direction of the show has clearly been hurt by whatever dischord there is behind the scenes, is that the Alicia/ Kalinda rift came about because it was revealed that Kalinda slept with Peter and, other than ruining a friendship that was at the heart of the show, absolutely NOTHING has really come of that revelation. Kalinda and Peter rarely have scenes together and their past association hasn't really been followed up on since then. So according to the Kings, Alicia and Kalinda, whose friendship was a highlight of the show in the early years, haven't interacted for multiple seasons because of a storyline development that ultimately went nowhere anyway. Even if I believed that was true, it would be ridiculous.     

[jb1183]

Alicia spent much of a season estranged from Will/Diane, but as she once commented to Cary during it, she was seeing them more than when she worked at LG. They were opposing each other in court constantly - yet, oddly, Kalinda was never needed to run in to the courtroom during any of those trials to share a key piece of information with Will and Diane, even though that's a GW trope and it would also have been interesting dramatically to see the uncomfortable looks or Alicia being "Uh oh" upon experiencing what it's like to be on the other side knowing what it means when Kalinda shows up in court. (Geneva's best line ever: "Whenever I see that bitch, I know we're in trouble.")

 

The show did repair the Alicia/Kalinda friendship, in what I thought was a realistic and organic way, and their friendship was referred to as such even after the actresses stopped sharing scenes. But even if I ignore all the episodes spent on repairing the friendship, it doesn't explain anything. There's mileage to be gotten out of them as enemies or as strained coworkers, something the Kings acknowledged and held out as a possibility back when JM originally dropped a bomb in the press about no more Kalicia after their arc of becoming friends again had already played out onscreen. Even if Kalinda and Alicia were simply set to "completely neutral coworkers" it still doesn't make sense, because the writers have had to actively write around having them onscreen together. It's not a case of the writers having to go out of their way to write scenes between Kalinda and Alicia, it's a case of the writers having to go out of their way to make sure they are never together onscreen even when it makes sense for them to be - they work at the same law firm now, and there's what happened with Will last year and with Cary this year. Notice how when Cary or Diane is the trial attorney, Kalinda runs into the courtroom with pieces of evidence or can be seen observing like she always has, but if Alicia is the trial attorney, Kalinda can't ever be in the courtroom for any reason.

 

That leads to a lot of fingerpointing at JM, because out of the two actresses, she's the one with the power to nix storylines and to make the writers go out of their way not to put Alicia in scenes with Kalinda even when it makes sense. AP is not a producer. AP is also on record as saying she'd like to see scenes between Kalinda and Alicia but that the writers told her the absence of scenes would continue, so that's the other reason for fingerpointing at JM - the lack of scenes matches what JM has said she wants, not what AP has said she wants or what the Kings always said they wanted, before JM took the whole thing public by basically declaring the friendship dead in an interview after the friendship had already been revived onscreen. The Kings said outright at that time that they weren't going to get into a public fight with JM, so since then they've had to say one ridiculous thing after another. But until that point, the arc of the Kalinda/Alicia relationship matched what the Kings always said they wanted, for them to be friends again. When what is happening onscreen matches what only one of three involved parties had expressed as their desire, the finger is going to be pointed at that one party.

This is the most eloquently stated write up I've seen regarding this whole situation, and why there's clearly something up BTS and why it pretty much HAS to be JM's doing. I understand why it might make people feel like she's being bashed, but IMO the decision to separate Alicia and Kalinda has greatly hurt the show creatively, and since that has apparently been dicatated entirely by her, she deserves criticism the same way any producers/writers deserve criticism for their poor creative choices.

[Noreaster]

You know, everyone is just repeating themselves. I said in my first post that I also believe there is something behind the scenes that keeps Julianna and Archie apart. I just don't agree with the proposed explanations here. That's all. 

[Ohmo]

Also, to be frank, I don't really care about the feud itself except as it affects the show.

 

Speaking only for myself, I'm annoyed at how it affects the show, and I'm annoyed at the lack of acknowledgement.  That makes it even worse.

 

Again, speaking only for myself, I believe a) there is a feud  b) Julianna is predominately responsible for whatever is happening.  If Archie were responsible, I think that we would have heard something way before this and c) the internet runs both ways.  There has been no attempt (that I've read) for anyone to say there's not a feud.

 

It's sad enough that the Alicia/Kalinda friendship is no longer, but I think it would be easier to know the actual reason behind it.  I'm not talking full-on details either.  In life, adults who work together sometimes don't get along.  Doesn't mean they necessarily hate each other.  For a host of reasons, sometimes two people just rub each other the wrong way.  I guess that's what bugs me as much as losing the friendship----losing the friendship and then trying to spin the reason why.  'Cause then I feel like my intelligence is being insulted.  What others choose to think is up to them, but I personally am insulted when I hear that the situation is storyline-dictated.  Enough has been said, not said, or not refuted to make me not believe that, and to continue to say that is asking me to ignore what I think is a very obvious elephant in the room.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Ohmo

[photo fox]

Since there's apparently more intrigue on the set of The Good Wife than there ever was at Lockhart Gardner, here's a place to discuss it all. Rumors and speculation welcome!

[Kromm]

You know, everyone is just repeating themselves. I said in my first post that I also believe there is something behind the scenes that keeps Julianna and Archie apart. I just don't agree with the proposed explanations here. That's all. 

Who's fault it is I can agree is far from certain.  People are speculating Julianna, and indeed it's likely, because she's the one who seems to have the power in the situation.  But we can't know for certain.

 

That the Kings are totally spinning things--or if we're being in your face about it... are "lying like weasels" does however seem to be close to certain.  As a few posters have said, the whole way they've dealt with it comes off as fairly insulting to the intelligence of anyone using their brain, reading the various quotes and seeing that what's being said makes no sense whatsoever.  As has been said many times, the "excuse" that the characters shouldn't be friends, ergo the actresses can't be in the same shot.  Because when in our lives have any of us EVER worked at a place and had to be in the room with people we weren't friends with? NEVER? Riiiiiiiiiiight?  Only not.

 

Plain and simple, whatever reason there's been for keeping the actresses out of the same room at all points (not just on camera, but seemingly with appearances too) is not something they've wanted to fess up to, probably because it's embarrassing to someone (another reason to think that Julianna is behind this, because she'd come off as a childish, spiteful, unprofessional bitch if this is actually coming from her side--and the LAST thing a producer wants to do is put their star into a public light with that kind of rep, at least while the show is still being produced).  

What's gonna be funny is when the show is over and someone finally spills on this.  And they will.  No doubt.

[merylinkid]

Part of the problem is the writers/producers clearly never knew what to do with the Kalinda character.   She is supposedly this bad ass investigator who dresses inappropriately for the office and gets her information via her magical vagina.   Then they give her an abusive husband and that storyline tanks.   Badly.   But they have nowhere to go because they took their BAI and made her a victim of domestic violence, who put up with it rather than be a BAI to deal with it.   They never explained that either.

 

I agree with JM, I hate the Kalinda character too.   But hating the character and freezing out the actress out two different things.    Something clearly happened that TPTB decided Kalinda was going to be a one note character with absolutely no growth.    Not a lot you can do there.   So she is sidelined more and more.   Is it because that is what JM wants?   No clue.    But it is clear that something went horribly wrong with the character and no one cared enough to fix it.   

 

BTW, its not just AP that JM doesn't have a lot of scenes with.   When was the last time she was in the same room with any of her law partners for more than a speech or two?    I remember Alicia telling off Diane why she was running and that is about it.   They are separating JM from the law firm cast a lot.    Maybe story reasons, maybe backstage stuff.   Who knows?

[readster]

Part of the problem is the writers/producers clearly never knew what to do with the Kalinda character.   She is supposedly this bad ass investigator who dresses inappropriately for the office and gets her information via her magical vagina.   Then they give her an abusive husband and that storyline tanks.   Badly.   But they have nowhere to go because they took their BAI and made her a victim of domestic violence, who put up with it rather than be a BAI to deal with it.   They never explained that either.

 

I agree with JM, I hate the Kalinda character too.   But hating the character and freezing out the actress out two different things.    Something clearly happened that TPTB decided Kalinda was going to be a one note character with absolutely no growth.    Not a lot you can do there.   So she is sidelined more and more.   Is it because that is what JM wants?   No clue.    But it is clear that something went horribly wrong with the character and no one cared enough to fix it.   

 

BTW, its not just AP that JM doesn't have a lot of scenes with.   When was the last time she was in the same room with any of her law partners for more than a speech or two?    I remember Alicia telling off Diane why she was running and that is about it.   They are separating JM from the law firm cast a lot.    Maybe story reasons, maybe backstage stuff.   Who knows?

 

 I agree on all of this, I mean we still have no idea what Kalinda even slept with Peter long before Alicia knew her. Even worse, she still holds a grudge, which I think at this point is stupid. I've seen a lot of shows tank or decide to just keep a character the same. However, when they try to give more of a story to the actor either two things happens. The story line tanks because they can't write it or the actor isn't as good as they believe. I remember Brothers & Sisters, the reason why they decided to make Rebecca a non-sibling after 2 years of making her one just because she had so much chemistry with one of the other actors, then married them and then saw the storyline wouldn't work and that the actor they hired to play Ryan was horrible. Hence, everything tanked from poor decisions because they didn't think things through with the story. Kalinda's husband was an example, we were just told: "He was a bad man and that Kalinda stole from him." Ummm... why? Even worse, why was he so hell bent on finding her when he was killed pretty easily. Its like with Peter, he just has sex because he wanted too, that's his motivation. It is very one note and its basically saying: "He's horrible but she is staying with him for their careers." Just get over it already because the writers have no idea how IL politics work.

[lovinbob]

it's annoying. TGW tends to utilize atypical, non-traditional story-telling methods, so I could see where they thought they might get away with the lack of AP/JM interaction. But considering that even the JM/CB/MC interactions have been minimal, it feels like personal matters are interfering with storytelling.

 

We can't chalk this all up to the affair. Alicia has been leaning on Kalinda plenty. She wouldn't be able to do that if she just hated her so much, or felt betrayed, or whatever. I get that they don't go for drinks anymore. I don't buy that they NEVER interact. This device doesn't work and it's astounding to me that any actor could get away with this. I've always liked JM as an actor, but I suspect I wouldn't like her much in real life.

[Maherjunkie]

Is there a reason, other than jealousy, as to why JM would not like AP?  Some event not talked about?

[Noreaster]

BTW, its not just AP that JM doesn't have a lot of scenes with.   When was the last time she was in the same room with any of her law partners for more than a speech or two?    I remember Alicia telling off Diane why she was running and that is about it.   They are separating JM from the law firm cast a lot.    Maybe story reasons, maybe backstage stuff.   Who knows?

 

My guess is it's storyline-driven. I think the show is taking Alicia down a certain path (making her less likable, less ethical, more career-oriented, more politically-savvy). Over the first few seasons, the show established Alicia as a very good lawyer. Then they had her step out and become more independent by splitting off her own law firm.  Now it's running for office. It wouldn't make sense for Alicia to be working on cases and spending time in court while she's campaigning.

 

Who's fault it is I can agree is far from certain.  People are speculating Julianna, and indeed it's likely, because she's the one who seems to have the power in the situation.  But we can't know for certain.

 

That the Kings are totally spinning things--or if we're being in your face about it... are "lying like weasels" does however seem to be close to certain.  As a few posters have said, the whole way they've dealt with it comes off as fairly insulting to the intelligence of anyone using their brain, reading the various quotes and seeing that what's being said makes no sense whatsoever.  As has been said many times, the "excuse" that the characters shouldn't be friends, ergo the actresses can't be in the same shot.  Because when in our lives have any of us EVER worked at a place and had to be in the room with people we weren't friends with? NEVER? Riiiiiiiiiiight?  Only not.

 

Plain and simple, whatever reason there's been for keeping the actresses out of the same room at all points (not just on camera, but seemingly with appearances too) is not something they've wanted to fess up to, probably because it's embarrassing to someone (another reason to think that Julianna is behind this, because she'd come off as a childish, spiteful, unprofessional bitch if this is actually coming from her side--and the LAST thing a producer wants to do is put their star into a public light with that kind of rep, at least while the show is still being produced).  

I have noticed for various shows, that when one of the leads is also a producer, many viewers like to blame that person for many things. In reality, a lot of people are involved in the decision-making. For The Good Wife, it's not just the Kings, it's not just JM, but also other producers, other writers, the network and who knows who else.  

 

I don't agree with thinking that the showrunners have to share everything behind-the-scenes. It really shouldn't matter. Does knowing that there is a rift between a couple of actors make one appreciate the storylines any more?  I think talking about anything behind-the-scenes is only a distraction and makes things even tougher for the writers. It also doesn't look good for anyone, not just the actors involved. I know some people here are already distracted by the lack of scenes between AP and JM. But how many people outside of these boards really notice? As I mentioned before, I didn't until I read these boards.  

 

To me, the show has always been about more than just the few core characters. There have been a lot of recurring characters and guest stars. I don't feel that the overall screentime for the core actors has changed much. Rather screentime for each character ebbs and flows depending on the storylines and various guest star arcs.  For AP, I feel she has been onscreen a lot.  The integration of the AP and JM phone scenes has also seemed pretty seamless to me.  Again, are the lack of AP/JM scenes noticeable to those people not looking for it? 

 

I'll reiterate that I agree with everyone that the lack of shared scenes between JM and AP is more than just storyline-driven. In which case, it doesn't make sense that people are continuing to point to JM's dislike of the Alicia/Kalinda friendship as a reason why JM must be the one calling all the shots.  And also how she must hate AP and that's why JM and AP don't have any screentime together. One thing doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the other.  I'm not saying to rule out this theory, but with limited actual information available, there are a lot of possible theories.  

[milkyaqua]

One theory spun as to why the Kalinda character may have been sidelined (and again this is just a theory) was that the character was very popular and maybe JM didn't like that (but whatever).

 

As was pointed out, a lot of us work and have people we don't like or get along with but we still interact with those people because you know, that's life and we're adults.

 

As for the development of the Kalinda character, yes, TPTB dropped the ball but I'm used to that happening on pretty much every show.  As for the Alicia/Kalinda thing and Alicia's seeming obsession with the fact that Kalinda slept with Peter.  This is where I think the show tried to retcon.  When the show first started and Alicia met Kalinda one of the first things she (jokingly) asks her, is if she slept with her husband and Kalinda said no.  Fast forward a couple of seasons and it comes out that Kalinda had slept with Peter and it having to do something with her having changed her identity from Leela to Kalinda (although I don't think Alicia knew this).  Alicia basically looked at this as a betrayal on both their parts and was angry because as she told Peter, Kalinda was her friend (of course, it happened before she ever met Kalinda but the fact that Kalinda had lied about it was it).

 

As for the husband story-line.  Yes, that was bad.  What started out as promising just went from bad to worse.  For me, knowing Adrian Pasdar was the voice on the phone gave me some hope the storyline might be interesting but he had prior engagements and another actor was cast.  For a lot of us, this casting was disappointing especially since most of us couldn't see why she'd be afraid of him and didn't just squash him like the bug he was.  The Kings got so much grief they hurriedly scrapped the storyline leaving dangling threads (Cary's beating for one).  They went on record as saying they made mistakes with the storyline (JM said it was a bad storyline as well) although they also said the audience just didn't get what they were trying to do.  But the damage had been done and Kalinda's character has never recovered in addition to, as others have pointed out, TPTB just have never seemed to know what to do with her.

Edited March 11, 2015 by milkyaqua

[stealinghome]

Kalinda was/is my favorite character on the show, but ITA that the writers never really knew what to do with her. Even the Kalinda/Alicia friendship--which imo was the heart of the show for the first 2-3 seasons--wasn't something the writers had really planned initially. I remember AP gave an interview where she basically said that test audiences loved the friendship when they saw the first few episodes, so the writers started writing for it more. But it's clear to me that Kalinda was/is a hit because of AP more than the writers. And it's not just the fact that they thought the audience "didn't get" the Nick storyline or "didn't want to see Kalinda as a victim" (to which I say, no, people were open to seeing Kalinda explored, it's just that the story was exceedingly poorly written and actually made no sense and didn't actually explore Kalinda at all, it explored the Kings' weird 50 Shades fantasies). It's stuff like the scene with Jill Flint in 3x21, I think the episode was...apparently the fact that Kalinda was fingering Lana was not at all in the script, it was something AP and JF came up with as they workshopped the scene (for something like 8 hours!). Seems to me AP always had a more realized grasp on who Kalinda was/is than the writers.

 

With that said, however...the writers were handed an absolute gold mine of a character in Kalinda. AP didn't win the Emmy for Best Supporting Actress in the first season because she or Kalinda were average. And I blame the writers for not knowing what to do with Kalinda in general (separate from the Alicia/AP and JM stuff), because, well, they get paid to know what to do with their characters. Figure it out. (Or hire me!)

 

fwiw, given the whole "no one will acknowledge the feud" thing: at least one article does make reference to the fact that AP and JM have a strained relationship, and "a source close to the show" pretty much confirmed it. In their opin--I mean, allegedly!

 

Again, are the lack of AP/JM scenes noticeable to those people not looking for it?

In a word: yes. For a while it was just Kalinda/Kalicia fans who noticed. But the Kings have been asked about, it in multiple interviews, by just about every major TV site at this point. Buzzfeed even ran an article on it. So, while I understand that it may not stand out to some people, it's been very noticeable to a pretty large chunk of the audience for a while now.

Edited March 11, 2015 by stealinghome

[Kromm]

Plus there's also the fact that the show does Paleyfest and other interviews and tours, and I bet if someone really tracked those they'd find out for sure that after the hostility allegedly started that the two actresses were never at such an event at the same time.  There's also stuff like award red carpets, backstage interviews, and industry parties, where you traditionally see common cast members clumping together, and I bet at least in the past few years those would "agree" with the conclusion too.

 

Whereas in the early days of the show you'd get TONS of shots like this

 

(Paleyfest - April 2010 - so almost 5 years ago)

 

(Feb 2011--so 4 years ago):

 

  

[milkyaqua]

To think all this started up again because of Robert King making this statement at Paleyfest:

 

 

 

...series cocreator Robert King told TVLine Saturday at PaleyFest that the decision to keep the two characters apart “is very much intentional to raise expectations,” adding that viewers should, “stay tuned.”

 

Which was the point for a lot of us.  Kalinda and Alicia have been separated this long, why try to resolve anything with the two of them now that Archie is leaving?  Just leave it alone.  The Kings can talk about all of their "intentional" confusion for this season and whatever else they've got going on with this show but just don't expect the audience at large to buy it.

Edited March 11, 2015 by milkyaqua

[maraleia]

Based on everything that is going on behind the scenes with the show, the fact that Archie is leaving, the direction of Alicia's story and the fact that I have to record two hours in order for the show to record during football season makes me want to stop watching after this season is over.

I hate when behind the scenes issues get in the way of a shows storytelling structure and this show is a prime example of it.

[Black Knight]

Which was the point for a lot of us.  Kalinda and Alicia have been separated this long, why try to resolve anything with the two of them now that Archie is leaving?  Just leave it alone. 

Agreed. It's the Kings stringing viewers along that have bothered me more than anything else. I get that they were stuck in a bad situation by JM, that they can't have a battle in the press with their lead, that this isn't what they wanted considering how much they loved the A/K relationship. In that regard they have all my sympathies. But I wish they would've just ended it. They could've had Alicia tell Kalinda (by phone, of course) that the apology stirred everything up for her again and she realized that she can't ever fully move past the ONS and she wants them to go back to avoiding each other. And then the Kings could have said in the press that they loved the relationship but JM had serious issues with it and so it had to end. JM's been very free on the record about her issues and about her exerting control over that storyline, so they wouldn't be saying anything she hasn't said publicly already. Of course I'm sure that JM's issues go beyond just story-based objections or they wouldn't have to go to such lengths to keep the actresses from even being on the same set, but whatever - I don't expect showrunners to publicly out such details or even think that they should...it's not professional.

 

Point being, the Kings strung fans of K/A along for a good long time - I bailed out early in S5, but I know other fans who continued to hope through S5 because the Kings would occasionally make these vague comments that something might come up, and then of course they threw in the Alicia phone calls to Kalinda in the aftermath of Will's death. It's only when that didn't actually lead anywhere and S5 ended with the actresses still not having had a scene together that even the diehards gave up. Nobody I know came into S6 thinking it would be any different from S5. And now the Kings want to assure us that there will be something before AP leaves. Oddly I actually do believe them on that, simply because AP is leaving. They'll write some kind of goodbye scene for Alicia and Kalinda. Of course, it might be over the phone, but there'll be something. And this brings me full circle to milkyaqua's quote above: Why bother? AP is leaving. The Kalinda/Alicia fans have given up. What we wanted to see was the two women interacting regularly on our screens like they did S1-S2 and S3b-S4a, and AP leaving is the final nail in the coffin for that. I don't care if they get one scene to say goodbye, especially after all this time passed by with nothing meaningful; I'd prefer they didn't get anything at all, because it's just going to look like a joke after all this. The Kings should've just ended the relationship onscreen in S5 and stated that in an interview so that people knew not to hope.

 

This reminds me of many years ago on ER, when the popular Corday/Benton relationship was ended because Eriq LaSalle had issues with it. I loved Corday/Benton and I hated that the relationship was ended, but I was very appreciative of the fact that Corday/Benton fans knew not to hope. I know it's normal practice for showrunners to not rule anything out in interviews, even things that they know definitely are not in the cards, so that they can hold onto as many fans as possible, but I think there's a distinction between those decisions which are being made purely for storyline and those decisions that are being made because of BTS factors. Because storyline-based decisions can change down the road (audience feedback, new writers rotating in who like an idea that the old writers didn't, etc.) but certain BTS things can't. I think when it's the latter, they should just be (relatively) honest with fans that it's over/not happening and make it clear onscreen as well. It could have been done without badmouthing JM or going into salacious details of whatever problem she has with AP. It's the false hope I really didn't like. I'll give JM this, she's never held out false hope to the fans about A/K. Nor has AP. It's just been the Kings.

[crashdown]

Although the Kings certainly aren't above playing cruel games with the fans (the Willicia thing was especially cruel--they built up the idea of Will's being Alicia's one true love between seasons four and five precisely so killing him off would hurt that much more), I honestly think that they really believed that they might be able to repair the JM/AP trouble . I say that because before the start of this season, TV journalist Jace Lacob (who's fairly close to the Kings and has done several in-depth interviews with them) tweeted after a casual TCA conversation that Robert had indicated that there was a light at the end of the A/K tunnel.  I know that Jace really believed it, so I presume that at the time Robert believed it as well.  But that obviously never happened, so whatever it was that caused that flicker of optimism died in utero.

 

I agree with Black Knight that we'll be getting some sort of farewell A/K scene, but whatever it is will be too little and too late by far.  Just leave it alone, let it be the punchline that it's become--there's absolutely no way that there's going to be any narrative satisfaction in anything that's going to happen, so I don't see why any writing pixels or episode minutes should be wasted on it.  Personally, I"m angry about the whole situation because I actually was someone who thought that the Peter/Kalinda reveal had a lot of dramatic possibilities.  At that time, the Kings were saying that Alicia and Kalinda were "soulmates on the friendship level."  The idea of a deep friendship between two women, made all the stronger because they were forced to come back after a real betrayal, seemed great to me--that's something that we rarely see on television.  Alicia and Kalinda as characters made each other better--I'm not nearly as interested in either one apart as I was in their relationship together.  I thought that the Kings were sitting on narrative gold at the end of season three, and all that gold was allowed to turn to dust.  Now I'll never know whether it *could* have been a great story.  Obviously, those who say that the Peter/Kalinda thing was a terrible decision are right by default, because the way everything from that has played out is laughable.  But it didn't need to be that way, and now we'll never be able to see what might have been.

Edited March 12, 2015 by crashdown

[Black Knight]

Although the Kings certainly aren't above playing cruel games with the fans (the Willicia thing was especially cruel--they built up the idea of Will's being Alicia's one true love between seasons four and five precisely so killing him off would hurt that much more), I honestly think that they really believed that they might be able to repair the JM/AP trouble . I say that because before the start of this season, TV journalist Jace Lacob (who's fairly close to the Kings and has done several in-depth interviews with them) tweeted after a casual TCA conversation that Robert had indicated that there was a light at the end of the A/K tunnel.  I know that Jace really believed it, so I presume that at the time Robert believed it as well.  But that obviously never happened, so whatever it was that caused that flicker of optimism died in utero.

I do think that the Kings thought for the early part of S5 that they might still be able to repair the problem, since they did one interview where they said something about hate as a dynamic - I forget the exact quote now, but the gist was essentially that even if A/K couldn't be friends, they could still have interesting interactions as enemies (because of the FA/LG war, ONS, whatever).

 

But as far as Jace's tweet goes, you know what I thought about that back at the time we discussed it - I never took it seriously and felt that either he had fallen for one of the Kings' standard lines (since they are well aware that Jace is a big K/A fan) and/or that he was trying to force a change in direction through a variety of methods (trying to pump up a dispirited fanbase, assigning another writer an article about the lack of K/A to stir up controversy). Now? Well, I still do think that Jace was trying to create a change in direction. But Robert King's "light at the end of the tunnel" also may have been the actual truth rather than just a line to pacify Jace: After all, AP's exit from the show qualifies as light at the end of the tunnel, because once she's gone, this isn't ever an issue again. RK knew her contract was up at the end of the upcoming season and it would have been beyond silly for him to think that anything was going to change after they'd already spent an unprecedented season and a half keeping AP and JM on separate sets. Early in S5, I can still buy optimism/naivete on his part that things could change. Going into S6, no. If JM hadn't relented by then she wasn't ever going to relent; on AP's part there was no reason for her to re-up in those circumstances even if she was asked to (which I doubt TGW did, given the situation), because she knows and has stated in interviews that Kalinda doesn't really fit on the show if she's not in Alicia's orbit.

[milkyaqua]

It's possible that the popularity of the Kalinda/Alicia friendship caught TPTB off guard.  So when they decided to pull the trigger they may not have taken into account how JM would feel about trying to continue that afterwards.  Either way, it was probably a lost opportunity.  Here you had two women who didn't exactly have friends outside of their work.  It would have been nice to see if the relationship could have grown to give another dynamic to the show.

 

But coulda, woulda, shoulda...

 

Right now, I just want a decent send-off for Archie though I'm not holding my breath.  The Kings have said killing her off wouldn't necessarily be in play especially after Will (because they've been asked this) and most folks seem like they'll be pissed if that's they way they do go.  They've also said they didn't have the luxury of surprising the audience due to the announcement of her departure being made so early.  I wouldn't be surprised if they did pull that though.

 

When all is said and done.  I hope that at the end of this season, they've straightened out their, according to them, intentional confusion of storylines.  Going into the final season next Fall, Alicia and company should be moving towards a definitive endgame.

[Black Knight]

Knowing how the Kings like to operate, since they can't surprise the audience with the actual fact of Kalinda's exit, they'll instead tease various possibilities within the show (as they're already doing) to make the audience wonder how it happens. I think Kalinda leaves alive, but after a narrow brush with death. Actor availability may also influence how Kalinda exits - Jill Flint's availability, especially. If she's available for AP's last episode, I can see Kalinda being written off with Lana.