S03.E15: That's The Way Love Goes

[madam magpie]

I wonder if there'll be a time jump in the next episode. THAT would be unfair.

 

If there's no time jump, or even if the scene picks up later with them in the house talking, I won't complain. Given how they dropped the scene last season where they talked about Maddie on the porch, though, I'm not holding my breath!

 

I don't think it's okay. I also don't think Rayna's slap and Pete's punch are an apples to apples comparison. But surely Pete does have issues or else he wouldn't have beat Sadie when they were together. I'd say that's fairly obvious. I don't know his character well enough to comment on what drives him to be abusive, nor do I care about his background. But in that particular moment on her porch, I'd say that he punched her to scare her, intimidate her and remind her of what he's capable of. To that end, he was successful.

 

I agree with this. The violence all comes from a similar place, but its intent can be entirely different. I also think that people judge things differently even when they come from a similar place, and that's OK with me too. Everything isn't exactly the same, no matter how it looks. As much as I disliked that ridiculousness of Rayna slapping Deacon, it absolutely doesn't affect me as viscerally as Pete punching Sadie because #1) a punch is much more violent, and #2) the relationships are totally different. I don't honestly know what I would have felt if Deacon had slapped Rayna after finding out about Maddie, however. I suspect I would have been horrified, as would much of the audience. Double standard? Probably. But also a realistic reaction. Deacon's just bigger and stronger than Rayna is; they aren't physical equals. So yeah, I'd have been much more upset by that than about her slapping him. None of this means any of it is OK, though.

 

I will say that one of my favorite scenes from Battlestar Gallactica is when Starbuck comes back from some mission and punches Lee in the face (I forget why). He pauses a moment and punches her back exactly the same way. I think that bothered a lot of people, but I loved it because I did see them as physical equals, and it seemed realistic because they both had a history of using violence to make their points. So it's not entirely just as simple "men hitting women/women hitting men" either, for me anyway.

 

Is it Triple X or Triple Exes?

 

I think there was a post/image on the show's Facebook page calling them The XXXs. It totally looks like a porn ad! I prefer just The Exes too.

Edited March 6, 2015 by madam magpie

[Quiche]

Whatever Rayna does just leaves me cold.  This is a poor lead of a primetime drama.  That's why the ratings are not great!  

 

I think Deacon was better off with his girl-friend on the road, but they have seemed to have gotten rid of her entirely.

 

Eric Close is wasted on this show.  

 

I love Jeff/Layla story.  

 

Scarlett is the best with the doctor.  Gunnar needs another story - about his career.  I'm tired of his poor, poor me, oh, woeful me type of stories.  

 

I miss Juliette.  

Edited March 6, 2015 by Quiche

[Soup333]

https://www.facebook.com/NashvilleABC/photos/a.354946414566186.83224.350848398309321/860525214008301/?type=1&theater

 

Yes. It is ridiculous. 

[DeLurker]

I thought closed caption showed Triple Exes. Not 100% sure though.

[Madding crowd]

I think Sadie is setting things up so she can kill the ex. First, she buys a gun under a fake name. Then we see her watching a news story about an abused wife who kills her husband. Then, after telling Rayna she doesn't want to talk about it, she goes on TV talking about long term abuse. I don't care for the character of Sadie, and much like Luke, they seem to be writing her in a way that is supposed to make us question her integrity. Of course I am all for protecting yourself from an abuser, but if the guy stays away from her I don't see her justification at coming after him either.

 

I didn't like the slap, but there are always some soap opera elements on this show and I don't watch soaps or like them, but I really enjoy the show, so I live with it. I don't agree that Rayna came to Deacon's home because she was angry. He was acting very emotional at the Opry, then left abruptly so she knew something was wrong.

 

I was happy that Deacon finally told someone besides Scarlett. I always hate the TV trope of people hiding their fatal illnesses from friends and family, because I never see that happening in real life. Usually people are so traumatized and in ill health that they can't just carry on as if everything was fine.

 

Love Scarlett and Gunnar together but agree triple x is not a great name. One of the suggestions was Backroads and I thought that sounded cool for a country group. 

 

And as someone who lost a few loved ones to liver problems, I felt real sadness and love in the Rayna/Deacon scene.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Madding crowd

[EyesGlazed]

I am sooooo tired of Maddie doing the "NOW KISS!" thing with Rayna and Deacon. I think she has convinced me to wish for them to be apart forever. What teenager acts like this?? I would have chewed on glass before i'd have expressed any interest in my parents' love lives at that age!

YES ME TOO.  I've always disliked it that the show has Maddie constantly prodding on Rayna and Deacon to get back together.  First of all, stupid child, it's a matter between adults and you should butt out.  Second, there's another man who raised you from babyhood to 14 or so, don't you care about him at all??  Seems he's earned the right to be called Dad a lot more than Deacon has.  Third, stop whining.

I want to thank this show for one thing- I was never really a fan of country music, but I'm coming around. I know this is more the contemporary stuff rather than the really traditional vein, but, baby steps, right?

Same here.  I used to dislike country music,  But now I even have a playlist on my iPhone now called "OMG Country!"

 

I think the writers are trying to rehabilitate Luke as a likeable character with a likeable son/bf for Maddie and also a new record label.  It's working for me to the extent that I don't have to ff through his scenes. I like him more now he's not with Rayna and is a potential business rival for her.

Yes, I've never shared the Luke hate.  I'm glad the show is keeping him around.

 

And I'm enjoying Jayla a lot.  It's weird, and a little creepy, and a little codependent and a little cool.  It's an interesting relationship, compared to (Reacon!) many (Ruke!) others (Scunnar!) on this (Zunnar!) show.

 

[Stella MD]

I think Sadie is setting things up so she can kill the ex. First, she buys a gun under a fake name. Then we see her watching a news story about an abused wife who kills her husband. Then, after telling Rayna she doesn't want to talk about it, she goes on TV talking about long term abuse. I don't care for the character of Sadie, and much like Luke, they seem to be writing her in a way that is supposed to make us question her integrity.

I don't love Sadie either, but I'm not sure I buy this. I mean, she didn't give herself that black eye. My take on the change of heart after seeing the news story on TV is that she didn't want to wind up a surprise murder victim like the woman in the story, so she tried to take charge of her own fate by stepping up and telling the world.

 

Whether I'll applaud her for that or not depends on who gets shot during the inevitable gunfight.  

[LotusFlower]

 

I don't think it's okay. I also don't think Rayna's slap and Pete's punch are an apples to apples comparison. But surely Pete does have issues or else he wouldn't have beat Sadie when they were together. I'd say that's fairly obvious. I don't know his character well enough to comment on what drives him to be abusive, nor do I care about his background. But in that particular moment on her porch, I'd say that he punched her to scare her, intimidate her and remind her of what he's capable of. To that end, he was successful.

 

What I'm saying about Rayna is that it's not her nature to react in a violent way. In the two and three quarters seasons that we've known this character, she has never pulled a Luke and just gone off throwing shit and running over cakes as an IMMEDIATE reaction. The only time she did react with even a hint of violence was after her father died and even then, only after days of pushing down her emotions and claiming to be okay. After the funeral, when she was back at the mansion surrounded by his things is when the dam broke and she finally became emotional.

 

In that moment, when she and Deacon just had that great night and she was finally ready to move forward in their relationship the cancer reveal was just too damn much of a shock for her to deal with in her usual way. That is my explanation for the slap. I still don't think it was necessary; I think the scene could have been just as powerful without it. But I understand why some people are not bothered by it.

As the saying goes - intent is irrelevant. The slap still hurts, the red mark or bloody eye is still there, irrespective of why the perpetrator threw the punch, and what's behind it. That's the thinking behind any kind of anti-violence message, similar to anti-hate campaigns that go after racist or offensive talk. Let's stop making excuses for it, the theory goes ("I was raised that way....sorry if I offended you, it wasn't my intent..."), and instead get out the message that it's never ok, no matter the circumstances.

[grannygeek]

Agree with Stella, that after not wanting to talk about it the TV piece inspired Sadie to get a little realer about her abuse. And I agree too, with whoever said she was setting up to kill the abuser. Not necessarily intentionally, but plot-wise think the writers are.

[Clemgo3165]

 

As the saying goes - intent is irrelevant. The slap still hurts, the red mark or bloody eye is still there, irrespective of why the perpetrator threw the punch, and what's behind it. That's the thinking behind any kind of anti-violence message, similar to anti-hate campaigns that go after racist or offensive talk. Let's stop making excuses for it, the theory goes ("I was raised that way....sorry if I offended you, it wasn't my intent..."), and instead get out the message that it's never ok, no matter the circumstances.

 

I get what you're saying. I will say that while the slap certainly took me by surprise, particularly after Sadie's speech in the previous scene, it didn't really strike me as abusive, more a way to make Deacon stop saying what Rayna didn't want to hear. But I can see where you're coming from and am looking at the scene a little differently now. 

 

The thing that squicked me, and that usually does in these types of shows, is the man (Jeff) shutting up the angry woman (Layla) with an impassioned kiss. To which she immediately responds and they have sex. So rather than dealing with her anger, the way to handle an angry woman is to force yourself on her because she'll come around and you'll get some. I work at UVA and we've been through every emotion possible since the Rolling Stone article, so I may be overly sensitive here, but it really bugged me.

[Sandman]

Maybe it's just my weakness for bad puns, but I'd be okay with the band name "the Triple Exes." Calling them "the XXXs" is not only syntactically awkward, but also sort of missing the point. Pornily.

[madam magpie]

As the saying goes - intent is irrelevant. The slap still hurts, the red mark or bloody eye is still there, irrespective of why the perpetrator threw the punch, and what's behind it. That's the thinking behind any kind of anti-violence message, similar to anti-hate campaigns that go after racist or offensive talk. Let's stop making excuses for it, the theory goes ("I was raised that way....sorry if I offended you, it wasn't my intent..."), and instead get out the message that it's never ok, no matter the circumstances.

I think that's one approach, but it's definitely not universal. There are plenty of people and laws that differentiate crimes or actions based on intent or degree. That's why you have different levels of murder, manslaughter, rape, robbery, etc. It's a fairly common message today that intent is irrelevant, but that's not really what most people believe, I don't think. I mean, they just argued a case about the healthcare law before the Supreme Court the other day that hinged entirely on intent. What you "mean" matters quite a lot to a lot of people. And I think that's one big reason that you get such varied reactions to something like Rayna slapping Deacon, but not to Pete punching Sadie.

I think also that if you buy into the idea that intent never matters, you have to apply it fairly. If intent is irrelevant, every major character on this show is an asshole except Daphne...and maybe Colt. Gunnar? (He's a sad sack, but I don't know about hurtful.) If intent is irrelevent, I am also an asshole. People do things all the time that are hurtful, physically or emotionally, even when they don't intend to harm. And each situation can't be judged as equal. I'd argue, for instance, that the damage done to Scarlett from her mother's verbal abuse was much more extensive than any damage done to Deacon by Rayna slapping him. Or even to Luke by Deacon punching him on the lawn. None of that says one act is OK and the other not OK, but what you mean and the degree to which you injure does matter to a lot of people when they judge an action.

 

What you do afterward also matters, I think. Rayna dissolved into sobs and fell into Deacon's arms. Pete continued to harrass and threaten Sadie. For me, my big issue with the punching/slapping on this show is the lack of reflection when there really should be some. The next scene of Rayna and Deacon should include Rayna feeling terrible for hitting him and apologizing. I bet we don't see that, though, because this show throws out these seemingly violent or hurtful acts from characters who have consciences but doesn't really allow them any reflection. Plus, you know, it's trashy.

Edited March 6, 2015 by madam magpie

[LotusFlower]

I think that's one approach, but it's definitely not universal. There are plenty of people and laws that differentiate crimes or actions based on intent or degree. That's why you have different levels of murder, manslaughter, rape, robbery, etc. It's a fairly common message today that intent is irrelevant, but that's not really what most people believe, I don't think. I mean, they just argued a case about the healthcare law before the Supreme Court the other day that hinged entirely on intent. What you "mean" matters quite a lot to a lot of people. And I think that's one big reason that you get such varied reactions to something like Rayna slapping Deacon, but not to Pete punching Sadie.

I think also that if you buy into the idea that intent never matters, you have to apply it fairly. If intent is irrelevant, every single major character on this show is an asshole except Daphne...and maybe Colt. Gunnar? (He's a sad sack, but I don't know about hurtful.) People do things all the time that are hurtful, physically or emotionally, even they don't intend to harm. And each situation can't be judged as equal. I'd argue, for instance, that the damage done to Scarlett from her mother's verbal abuse was much more extensive than any damage don't to Deacon by Rayna slapping him. Or even to Lukd by Deacon punching him on the lawn. None of that says one is OK and the other not OK, but what you mean and the degree to which you injure does matter to a lot of people when they judge action.

I agree that different offensives are not the same, and I also agree with your particular ex. of Scarlett's mother's years of verbal abuse as being worse than Rayna's slap. But saying that they might be different, but neither is ok is the most important point. For me, at least. Breaking it down like this is ok so long as the no tolerance message is front and center.

[madam magpie]

I agree that different offensives are not the same, and I also agree with your particular ex. of Scarlett's mother's years of verbal abuse as being worse than Rayna's slap. But saying that they might be different, but neither is ok is the most important point. For me, at least. Breaking it down like this is ok so long as the no tolerance message is front and center.

I think that in some situations tolerance is OK, though. It's OK with me that most people aren't suddenly hating the character of Rayna or calling her a Deacon-beater. I mean, some people are, but most people get her intent even if they don't agree with her action. Hell, even I get her intent, and I think the whole thing is insane. It's like people who say you can't ever spank your child, one slap across the face is the same as years of abuse, etc. I am not someone who believes spanking is an appropriate way to discipine children. My ideology says, "That's wrong. You shouldn't hit people. Spanking is hurtful." But does that mean I can say with certainty that I'd never snap and do it? Or that we shouldn't tolerate that behavior from someone else? Or that bratty Julie Taylor didn't fully deserve the 2am slap across the face from her mother on Friday Night Lights? For me, definitely no. I think that message of tolerance is both OK and very necessary, especially in today's social climate. This show does a really bad job of it, but personally, I think that's because, for reasons I can't identify, the creators became inconsistent and sometimes lousy storytellers after season one.

The thing that squicked me, and that usually does in these types of shows, is the man (Jeff) shutting up the angry woman (Layla) with an impassioned kiss. To which she immediately responds and they have sex. So rather than dealing with her anger, the way to handle an angry woman is to force yourself on her because she'll come around and you'll get some.

I get the visceral reaction, but really, if that's what she likes or it doesn't bother her or she enjoys that game, yeah, that is the way to handle it. I think Layla does enjoy that game. I don't, but I'm not Layla. Everything just isn't the same, and those two don't really represent anyone accept the characters they play.

Edited March 6, 2015 by madam magpie

[LotusFlower]

I think that in some situations tolerance is OK, though. It's OK with me that most people aren't suddenly hating the character of Rayna or calling her a Deacon-beater. I mean, some people are, but most people get her intent even if they don't agree with her action. Hell, even I get her intent, and I think the whole thing is insane. It's like people who say you can't ever spank your child, one slap across the face is the same as years of abuse, etc. I am not someone who believes spanking is an appropriate way to discipine children. My ideology says, "That's wrong. You shouldn't hit people." But does that mean I can say with certainty that I'd never snap and do it? Or that we shouldn't tolerate that behavior from someone else? Or that bratty Julie Taylor didn't fully deserve the 2am slap across the face from her mother on Friday Night Lights? For me, definitely no. I think that message of tolerance is both OK and very necessary, especially in today's social climate. This show does a really bad job of it, but personally, I think that's because, for reasons I can't identify, the creators became inconsistent and sometimes lousy storytellers after season one.

I don't agree that tolerance is ever ok, but I do understand that sometimes people do snap. It's so funny, because at this same moment, a very similar debate is going on in the Real Housewives threads (/don't judge) - now that's a true soap opera! Lisa Rinna threw wine and smashed a glass at a dinner table, and I'm pretty sympathetic to her because of how she was provoked, as well as how much I despise her so-called enemy. She's been shown to be a very thoughtful and likeable character (similar to Rayna, or Tami Taylor, at least), but her adversary went after her husband, and she just snapped. But....the shards of glass everywhere wasn't cool, and she acknowledged that. Similarly, since my personal philosophy is: thou shall never hurt Deacon, I think I need an apology from Rayna whenever the show returns! I want her to acknowledge that she snapped, but I fear she won't, because it instead was done in B-movie, soap opera mode. Something's wrong with this picture when the real soap opera explains the snap, but the drama doesn't!

[madam magpie]

I don't agree that tolerance is ever ok, but I do understand that sometimes people do snap. It's so funny, because at this same moment, a very similar debate is going on in the Real Housewives threads (/don't judge) - now that's a true soap opera! Lisa Rinna threw wine and smashed a glass at a dinner table, and I'm pretty sympathetic to her because of how she was provoked, as well as how much I despise her so-called enemy. She's been shown to be a very thoughtful and likeable character (similar to Rayna, or Tami Taylor, at least), but her adversary went after her husband, and she just snapped. But....the shards of glass everywhere wasn't cool, and she acknowledged that. Similarly, since my personal philosophy is: thou shall never hurt Deacon, I think I need an apology from Rayna whenever the show returns! I want her to acknowledge that she snapped, but I fear she won't, because it instead was done in B-movie, soap opera mode. Something's wrong with this picture when the real soap opera explains the snap, but the drama doesn't!

 

Ohmygod. I love everything about this.

 

I really do agree that it's the lack of remorse and follow-through that causes Nashville most of its problems. I mean, back when Luke drove to the Bluebird with no other reason for being there except to sneer at Deacon and punch him in the face, I was SURE that Rayna would find out and be really mad because, yeah she can give Deacon the what-for but she's loyal to him until the end. When Liam gave Scarlett pills, I was SURE Rayna would find out and lose her shit because of the history of addiction in that family. When Rayna stood on the porch of the river house and confessed to Deacon that she'd wanted to be his wife and yeah she'd done some things he was mad about but step of your high horse buddy because you started it, I was SURE it would lead to a meaningful change in their relationship. When Lamar died and Rayna threw the glass and screamed about "Lies! All lies! They must stop!" I was SURE she was going to find her self-awareness and change her life. When Rayna sold Deacon out to Rolling Stone, I was SURE she'd crack at just how fall she'd fallen. And yet here we are. I don't expect follow-through anymore. At least Lisa Rinna and her soapy show grasp that when you throw a glass, you should say sorry and realize maybe that's a trashy, INSANE way of behaving. Not on Nashville, though. On Nashville, let's all throw glasses! And punches! And hurt the people we love! No big.

Edited March 6, 2015 by madam magpie

[rubyred]

I think Nashville thinks it's being all down-home and authentic when they're really taking advantage of the rabble-rousing good ole boy stereotype when it has these punch out scenes. Lazy storytelling, although I'm sure they congratulate themselves for showing, not telling! But having Rayna slap Deacon within the same episode as Sadie's Very Special Storyline -- poor optics. But not the first time -- like when she and Sadie peeled out to outrun paparazzi mere weeks after Rayna's near-fatal car accident. The writer's room is strangely forgetful of their own dramatic beats.

[LotusFlower]

Ohmygod. I love everything about this.

 

I really do agree that it's the lack of remorse and follow-through that causes Nashville most of its problems. I mean, back when Luke drove to the Bluebird with no other reason for being there except to sneer at Deacon and punch him in the face, I was SURE that Rayna would find out and be really mad because, yeah she can give Deacon the what-for but she's loyal to him until the end. When Liam gave Scarlett pills, I was SURE Rayna would find out and lose her shit because of the history of addiction in that family. When Rayna stood on the porch of the river house and confessed to Deacon that she'd wanted to be his wife and yeah she'd done some things he was mad about but step of your high horse buddy because you started it, I was SURE it would lead to a meaningful change in their relationship. When Lamar died and Rayna threw the glass and screamed about "Lies! All lies! They must stop!" I was SURE she was going to find her self-awareness and change her life. And yet here we are. I don't expect follow-through from Rayna anymore. At least Lisa Rinna and her soapy show grasp that when you throw a glass, you should say sorry and realize maybe that's a trashy, INSANE way of behaving. Not on Nashville, though. On Nashville, let's all throw glasses! And punches! No big.

I'm so glad! I much prefer it when we're on the same page! Deacon Clayborne and Tami Taylor have a way of doing that, don't they?!

This show cracks me up because of how they introduce and then drop things. Fake miscarriage, anyone? I can't be the only one who was anticipating the scene of Teddy finding a calf's liver in his garbage can, right? See, this is where reality shows like Real Housewives have an upper hand on dramas like Nashville - there's always a reunion special at the end of the season where the host and viewers get to grill the "characters" and call them out for things. My first question for Rayna would be something like: when your next tour stops in Texas, could you please find Tami Taylor and tell me what you've done to her?

[AnnaRose]

The thing that squicked me, and that usually does in these types of shows, is the man (Jeff) shutting up the angry woman (Layla) with an impassioned kiss. To which she immediately responds and they have sex. So rather than dealing with her anger, the way to handle an angry woman is to force yourself on her because she'll come around and you'll get some. I work at UVA and we've been through every emotion possible since the Rolling Stone article, so I may be overly sensitive here, but it really bugged me.

 

Thank you.  I really hated that scene for the reasons you mentioned.  I am unfamiliar with the Rolling Stone article you mentioned.  What was that about?

[madam magpie]

I'm so glad! I much prefer it when we're on the same page! Deacon Clayborne and Tami Taylor have a way of doing that, don't they?!

 

They're bridge builders.

 

Yes, Teddy and the pork blood was another one! Also, HELLO! Teddy basically let Lamar die right there in the mayor's office! And don't we think Lamar killed Peggy and basically killed Rayna's mother? I'm sure there are more. It really is maddening, but I think that's the soapy part we have to accept and cannot change.

 

I do mostly agree with you about the rest; we just don't use the same words. Basically, I think we all have to tolerate flaws and mistakes (even big ones) in people or else we're all miserable failures, but that never makes those hurtful things all right or nothing. If I weren't just pretending it never happened, Rayna slapping Deacon is something I can tolerate and forgive, but it's not nothing. Unfortunately, Nashville asks us to both tolerate these things AND accept them as all right. Tami Taylor would definitely not approve of that, and I do live my life by the WWTTD creed, so...

Edited March 7, 2015 by madam magpie

[Soup333]

I think also that if you buy into the idea that intent never matters, you have to apply it fairly. If intent is irrelevant, every major character on this show is an asshole except Daphne...and maybe Colt. Gunnar? (He's a sad sack, but I don't know about hurtful.) If intent is irrelevent, I am also an asshole. People do things all the time that are hurtful, physically or emotionally, even when they don't intend to harm. And each situation can't be judged as equal. I'd argue, for instance, that the damage done to Scarlett from her mother's verbal abuse was much more extensive than any damage done to Deacon by Rayna slapping him. Or even to Luke by Deacon punching him on the lawn. None of that says one act is OK and the other not OK, but what you mean and the degree to which you injure does matter to a lot of people when they judge an action.

 

Nope, Gunnar's definitely an asshole for how he treated Zoey even though it wasn't his intent to make her into a housewife/babysitter, that's what happened. And Colt's an ass too for the way he treated that airline hostess. That makes Daphne an ass by default since she mimicked Cole and acted entitled on the plane. So....that's everybody then, right? With the possible exception of Emily, this is a show full of assholes.

[Madding crowd]

I don't love Sadie either, but I'm not sure I buy this. I mean, she didn't give herself that black eye. My take on the change of heart after seeing the news story on TV is that she didn't want to wind up a surprise murder victim like the woman in the story, so she tried to take charge of her own fate by stepping up and telling the world.

 

Whether I'll applaud her for that or not depends on who gets shot during the inevitable gunfight.

I didn't say she wasn't abused or gave herself the black eye. I just think that is where the show is going. Whenever you see someone buying a gun on TV, it is used at some point.

[Soup333]

I didn't say she wasn't abused or gave herself the black eye. I just think that is where the show is going. Whenever you see someone buying a gun on TV, it is used at some point.

 

Chekhov's gun. They made a point to show the gun, it's going to go off at some point. I have a list of folks I'd like to see catching a bullet, but we'll see.

 

Edited because I just thought of a storyline that they dropped! The guy Scarlett was "managing." What happened with him after Winterville Nashfest or whatever it was called?? 

Edited March 6, 2015 by Soup333

[Sandman]

They've also basically dropped the plot thread of Scarlett's formerly crippling stage fright, since she doesn't seem to have a problem with being on stage with her two crazy exes. Of course, the show drops certain plot lines but recycles other, because the last time Noel wanted to send them on tour, ZAG (as it was then constituted) couldn't because Micah! Now that Avery is about to have a baby of his (and he's married to boot!) we're going to revisit tour angst? Feh.

 

I was sort of hoping that Scarlett would become a brilliant songwriter who doesn't actually perform onstage. Not because I don't want to hear Clare Bowen sing; I do. I just thought it would be interesting to have a character who found her own niche in a different way. I guess that's not sufficiently dramatic.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Sandman

[lucindahead]

I mean, I loved FNL, but Rayna does seem to me like a Tennessee Tami Taylor thrown onto the Opry stage and given a mic and a legendary career, and not in a good way.  It's not just a matter of Connie Britton's non-superstar voice, but that she just doesn't read as a country star. Luke, Juliette, even Scarlett in her Ellie Goulding trembling baby bird way are pretty believable to me as headliners. 

 

And GOOD GOD Maddie is annoying.  Bio parents or no, it is so gross and presumptive to virtually demand that people be intimate. 

[LotusFlower]

Tami Taylor would definitely not approve of that, and I do live my life by the WWTTD creed, so...

Ordering a WWTTD necklace right now...

The thing that squicked me, and that usually does in these types of shows, is the man (Jeff) shutting up the angry woman (Layla) with an impassioned kiss. To which she immediately responds and they have sex. So rather than dealing with her anger, the way to handle an angry woman is to force yourself on her because she'll come around and you'll get some. I work at UVA and we've been through every emotion possible since the Rolling Stone article, so I may be overly sensitive here, but it really bugged me.

That really bugged me, too. I remember taking a sociology or women's study course once where we were shown these kinds of clips from movies and TV - they're all over the place and so prevalent. Sometimes the message is overt, sometimes it's subliminal, but it's always about women submitting to whatever the man wants. I don't think you're overly sensitive at all, although I can just imagine watching scenes like this in the context of the UVA/Rolling Stone scandal.

[quangtran]

They've also basically dropped the plot thread of Scarlett's formerly crippling stage fright, since she doesn't seem to have a problem with being on stage with her two crazy exes.

I don't think that was dropped AT ALL, but a plot that was naturally resolved over the whole series.

 

2:08 Was booed off stage at Luke's concert. She never completely got over this incident.

2:19 She has an onstage meltdown.

2:20 Decides to give up performing.

3:04 Refuses to sing onstage with Zoey at the Blue Bird because she still has PTSD

3:07 She reluctantly performs with Terrance at the Blue Bird

3:09 Terrance shames her into performing with the exes at Winterfest

3:14 Is now officially on board with the performing again

 

As you can see, they spaced out this storyline pretty evenly throughout the series. Season 2 was all about bringing her down, while season 3 was all about gradually raising her back up again (that was kind of the point to the whole homeless man arc), which is why I completely disagree with the idea that it was dropped.

Edited March 7, 2015 by quangtran

[Sandman]

You're right to point out that Scarlett's return to the stage was shown as at least somewhat gradual, rather than simply dropped, but I do think that the show could have done a better job with her recovery story. After all, being shamed into performing is not exactly a solid therapeutic approach, no matter how magical a character Mykelti Williamson is playing.

[Soup333]

Good points, quangtran. I think too that Scarlett is back on board with performing because it's a distraction from her uncle's illness and it's fun again, as opposed to when she was under contract with Rayna. 

 

The scene I wished we would have gotten is the after proposal scene with Avery and Juliette. Would have loved to be a fly on the wall for that conversation. *sigh*

 

The thing that squicked me, and that usually does in these types of shows, is the man (Jeff) shutting up the angry woman (Layla) with an impassioned kiss. To which she immediately responds and they have sex. So rather than dealing with her anger, the way to handle an angry woman is to force yourself on her because she'll come around and you'll get some. I work at UVA and we've been through every emotion possible since the Rolling Stone article, so I may be overly sensitive here, but it really bugged me.

 

Their entire relationship is gross for so many reasons. I won't (can't, actually) list all of them here, but the main point is that Jeff has shit on every single female character he has had extended contact with. No doubt he would have screwed Zoey and Maddie over if he'd had the chance. Nashville is not known for subtlety and with Henry Benton and Rayna noting that he has a problem with women, the character has obviously been written to be misogynistic. But even with all that in mind, him sleeping with/managing the young girl (bitchy as she can be, she's still only 19) whose career he tanked and whose overdose he caused (even indirectly) is now okay? Nope. Never. Sorry. 

[AnnaRose]

I don't think that was dropped AT ALL, but a plot that was naturally resolved over the whole series.

 

2:08 Was booed off stage at Luke's concert. She never completely got over this incident.

2:19 She has a onstage meltdown.

2:20 Decides to give up performing.

3:04 Refuses to sing onstage with Zoey at the Blue Bird because she still has PTSD

3:07 She reluctantly performs with Terrance at the Blue Bird

3:09 Terrance shames her into performing with the exes at Winterfest

3:14 Is now officially on board with the performing again

 

As you can see, they spaced out this storyline pretty evenly throughout the series. Season 2 was all about bringing her down, while season 3 was all about gradually raising her back up again (that was kind of the point to the whole homeless man arc), which is why I completely disagree with the idea that it was dropped.

 

I think she also emphasized that it had a lot to do with being a solo artist, up there on stage by herself... and that she feels a lot more comfortable singing on stage with Gunnar and/or Avery.

[LotusFlower]

As you can see, they spaced out this storyline pretty evenly throughout the series. Season 2 was all about bringing her down, while season 3 was all about gradually raising her back up again (that was kind of the point to the whole homeless man arc), which is why I completely disagree with the idea that it was dropped.

Performing at the Bluebird and opening on tour for Rascal Flatts is kinda different. And I also think that having her sing on stage at the Bluebird is not the same thing as addressing her stage fright. Was she nervous? We're her hands shaking? How did she overcome her nerves? Was it singing alone that frightened her, and the presence of Avery or Gunnar that makes it easier for her? Did she take some liquid courage? I think they could have addressed the issue of stage fright in any of these kinds of ways, but instead, it's onto Rascal Flatts!

[madam magpie]

Thank you. I really hated that scene for the reasons you mentioned. I am unfamiliar with the Rolling Stone article you mentioned. What was that about?

I believe she's referring to a now-retracted Rolling Stone article from last year accusing the University of Virginia of systematically overlooking a pattern of sexual assault on campus. It turned out that the Rolling Stone reporter who wrote the piece made lots of assumptions and never interviewed many of the main players in the story. Did she actually make stuff up too? I forget. But essentially the school was accused of allowing rapes on campus, the frats were shut down, and the young woman profiled in the story has been accused of lying (though my personal opinion is that she was truthful as best she could be, but was both led and misled by the reporter). Lives ruined, people shamed, etc. and the underlying, important issue of campus sexual assault overshadowed by some of the worst reporting seen in years.

Edited March 7, 2015 by madam magpie

[panthergirl13]

The Exes was a good name, Triple Exes is stupid. Between Gunner's final expression and Scarlett's hair, I'm changing it to The Ex Tensions.

[hqtextbook]

Totally agree with Soup333 RE: Layla and Jeff. How is that hot?? He is a misogynistic loser who tanked layla's career and never respected her as a musician or person. And he almost killed her. And now he's taking advantage of her vulnerability and trying to make some bucks off it. GROSS. I do love Layla though. Her voice is incredible and she plays 19 very well. 

 

I yelled at my tv when they cut away from Maddie and Daphne's song to show the stupid Teddy/prostitute drama. Does anybody care about that??

[tennisgurl]

I like the name Triple Exes, but I feel like its either going to lead to a lot of WWE Smack down jokes, or a lot of porn section jokes. You decide which is worse. 

 

I wish they could get Layla to sing more, I love her voice. And her and Jeff have a lot of chemistry, but its not going anywhere good. Mainly because Jeff is GROSS. 

 

Why must every show have to have that one story line or character that literally NO ONE cares about? Right now, Its Teddy`s hooker drama. Oy. I actually like Teddy way more than most people do (relatively), and even I think this is a waste of time.  

Edited March 7, 2015 by tennisgurl

[LadyMustang65]

I don't love Sadie either, but I'm not sure I buy this. I mean, she didn't give herself that black eye. My take on the change of heart after seeing the news story on TV is that she didn't want to wind up a surprise murder victim like the woman in the story, so she tried to take charge of her own fate by stepping up and telling the world.

 

Whether I'll applaud her for that or not depends on who gets shot during the inevitable gunfight.  

 

I do like Sadie, but that's probably beside the point.  I had a slightly different take on that scene.  After she tells Rayna that she doesn't want to talk about her ex, she sees the new story about the abused woman who was killed by her husband.  As I recall (and my memory can play tricks on me), the reporter made some comment along the lines of the police or EMTs having been at the house multiple times and people not understanding why she stayed with him.  To me that seemed to be what sparked Sadie's real attention.  I saw it as kind of a double-edge sword.  First was for herself - to shed light on what had happened to her, expose her ex for the pig that he is and help herself to really move past it.  The second was, I think, for other women out there in that same situation. Sadie knows the fear and the humiliation that goes with being a battered wife.  She knows how victims come to believe they somehow 'deserve' the abuse or caused it.  While Sadie is not famous on the Rayna level, she is an up-and-coming country music artist who has just won a significant award.  It's a chance for her to show other battered women that this can happen to anyone, that it's not their fault, and that they can overcome the situation and get out.  Maybe I was reading too much into that, but that was the sense I got - that this was more than just about Sadie and her ex.  There may be some visceral awareness on her part that her ex is not likely to appreciate being 'outed' as an abuser, and she may suffer some repercussions, but she is at the point where she is willing to face him while simultaneously, I think, hoping that with his actions being brought into the light, he will in fact leave her alone to avoid further publicity. 

 

YMMV.

[Sutton]

My take on the Sadie situation is that she did buy a gun, he's an abuser, and is really not be happy that she outted him on national TV, and there is a possibility that at some time he will try to get even with her and she will shoot him dead and Deacon will get his transplant. It's all been leading up to it so I'm just wondering how long it's going to take for it to happen. That will be Season 3 cliff hanger will Deacon get his liver???

 

She's willing to face him simultaneusly, I think, hoping that with his actions being brought into the light, he will in fact leaver her along to avoid further publicity.

That look on his face while he was watching her on TV says to me, you bit-ch I'll get even for what you just did.

[LadyMustang65]

Sutton - I agree with you that that's what his look said, but I think Sadie is hoping that he'll be too humiliated to have been outed to actually do it.  But I also agree, as does the DH, that he will come after Sadie, and she will be forced to shoot him.  We're also betting that he will be Deacon's liver donor, although it's hard to imagine Pete being a decent enough person to have listed himself as an organ donor, and since they are divorced, Sadie would not be able to make medical decisions like that about his body.  It would have to be his parents, who with any luck will be rightfully embarrassed to learn that their son is an abuser and will jump at the chance to 'redeem' him somewhat.  Maybe?

[marceline]

I never watched a whole lot of Friday Nights Light, but every time Rayna says "babe" I expect to see Couch Taylor/Kyle Chandler.

 

I live for the idea of a random Kyle Chandler cameo on this show. Nothing major just have him pass by and ask for directions to the local high school or something.

 

My interpretation of The Slap was Rayna lashed out just to make him shut up. She was hearing something that she couldn't stand to hear and her hand did what her mind wanted to do: make the words stop. I've heard this happens to police when they have to inform someone of a loved one's death. You are the physical embodiment of a nightmare come true and some people just react violently. That said, it was a bad storytelling choice, especially in this episode.

 

Re the double standard of women hitting men, that's the last vestige of an old mindset. Women slapping men is a trope from all the way back to early film. (Really, watch old movies and see how many times a woman slaps a guy and it's played as a joke.) It's an outdated idea that is dying out but not nearly fast enough.

 

I'm not terribly interested in Sadie but I like that Rayna has a female friend since they decided to get rid of Tandy and I adore Laura Benanti. When I think about the range between this appearance and her part on the recent episode of The Good Wife, I rail at the TV gods that she doesn't have a show of her own. Though I know it's not for lack of trying.

Edited March 7, 2015 by marceline

[madam magpie]

I live for the idea of a random Kyle Chandler cameo on this show. Nothing major just have him pass by and ask for directions to the local high school or something.

This would allow me to forgive Nashville for a lot of things. If he and Tim Riggins showed up for a Rayna/Deacon set at the Bluebird, even better.

[Sutton]

An abuser and he was one for many years they were together, is the kind of guy who will not feel humiliated or apologize but go after her full force. They have that entitled character flaw of how dare you tell anyone I abused you. If Pete's the donor and he doesn't have any other living relatives, Sadie being ex-wife will be the one to make the dicision to okay the liver transplant. (I'm still hopeful that Beverly is going to change her mind and bring the family together. Is that me dreaming.)

 

I said it before I didn't mind Rayna slapping Deacon she wanted him to STOP talking because she didn't want to hear he might die. I cried watching that scene. Chip/Connie's acting was amazing. They always seem so connected when they have scenes together on how this relationship should go forward and interact with each other. I hope the series does right by them. Romantic me....

 

MM -- Does anyone think there's a chance that could happen???

[madam magpie]

MM -- Does anyone think there's a chance that could happen???

Only in my wishes...

The very strange thing to me about Pete watching Sadie was that I thought he looked sad, not menacing, though being in the shadows was a contradiction. I'm sure he was going for menacing, but still. I never know what crazy nutjob this show is going to try to make me like next, and my first thought was, "They want to redeem Pete now?!"

It does seem like the gun, abuser, and foreshadowed shooting are conveniently coming together to solve the "Deacon needs a liver" problem. I can see it. But I just can't let go of the idea that it will be Rayna who gives up the liver and then she and/or Deacon flatlines in the operating room as the season finale fades to black. She'd be literally saving his life by giving up a piece of her body. How does a soaptastic writer resist that??

Edited March 7, 2015 by madam magpie

[Sutton]

 

Deacon needs a liver. I can see it. But I just can't let go of the idea that it will be Rayna who gives up the liver and then she and/or Deacon flatlines in the operating room as the season finale fades to black. She'd be literally saving his life by giving up a piee of her body.

I loved your comment about Rayna being the one to give Deacon part of her liver because then they will be connected to each other in ways they never ever dreamed of. But the other flatline NO don't want to go that route. I have always wanted her to be the one who was a perfect match but Deacon will never agree to it so she would have to be an anonymous donor. I'm still holding out that Beverly will be it if Pete doesn't die.

 

They want to redeem Pete like they did with Luke, that would take to long to do. We don't need another character in this series to hang around and another story line that won't go anywhere. Poor Pete, we all have him dead and maybe down deep he's a nice guy. No, I don't think that's true.

 

 

How does a soaptastis writer resist that??

Please Callie hold back on too much soaptastis in the series and bring in Deb/You to write those great episodes.

[RedheadZombie]

It's a very minor thing, but it irritated me when Rayna called Deacon "babe", just like she called Luke.  Does she stick to the same endearment so she doesn't mistakenly say the wrong name?

[DeLurker]

Probably just habit like someone's aunt calling you sweetie or hon.

[Stella MD]

 

there is a possibility that at some time he will try to get even with her and she will shoot him dead and Deacon will get his transplant. It's all been leading up to it so I'm just wondering how long it's going to take for it to happen.

 

We're also betting that he will be Deacon's liver donor

I agree that Sadie will point the gun in Pete's direction, leading to a death by which Deacon gets his liver, but I sadly doubt that Pete will be the one who gets shot. My hope is that in soaptastic fashion, the victim will be one of Rayna's exes who wouldn't have wanted to help Deacon (Luke would be perfect, but I'd take Teddy too - both are useless and annoying these days). I don't like that they've put Avery close to the line of fire, though. Seriously, show, I will cut you if it's Avery.

[smiley13]

The discussion on this show is hard to follow when characters from other shows are constantly mentioned.  There is no one named Tami Taylor on Nashville.

 

This was a great episode to me because it had a lot of Scarlett in it.  I loved the development of her and doctor going out, then her discussion with Deacon about her almost ruining the date because the cute doctor is the only other person she can talk to about the cancer.  I am so glad Deacon finally told Rayna.   And now Scarlett and the doctor get another chance.  Also loved Scarlett and the guys performing together.  I do wish they would have gone with The Exes though instead of The Triple Exes.  That just sounds questionable.

 

Sadie just needs to go away.  She is isolated from pretty much everyone else with her own drama.  

 

Having Luke stay around is a good thing.   You just know he will find out about Will soon.  Will is his shining star for the new label and how will Luke handle the news?

[Soup333]

I agree that Sadie will point the gun in Pete's direction, leading to a death by which Deacon gets his liver, but I sadly doubt that Pete will be the one who gets shot. My hope is that in soaptastic fashion, the victim will be one of Rayna's exes who wouldn't have wanted to help Deacon (Luke would be perfect, but I'd take Teddy too - both are useless and annoying these days). I don't like that they've put Avery close to the line of fire, though. Seriously, show, I will cut you if it's Avery.

 

I sincerely hope that Beverly changes her mind and donates her miraculous, blood-type matching liver to her brother.

 

That gun is still going to go off and I'm hoping it passes through Pete and hits a few other people as well. Two (or more!) birds with one stone as they say. Avery should be either on tour or in the hospital/home with his wife and baby and therefore safe from the drama. But I agree, if they hurt the Barkley's, any of them, I'm out.

 

Unlikely to be injured/killed in the Sadie/Pete Gun Battle Royale:

 

Rayna (even though she is on Pete's shit list, she already had her own near death experience)

Deacon (currently in the middle of his own)

Deacon's doctor (we need him. Who else is going to do the transplant?)

Bucky (not sure what purpose this would serve, unless theories about Jeff replacing him as head of A&R at H65 are true)

Glenn & Emily (have had zero connection to this storyline)

Juliette (I would revolt)

Maddie/Daphne/Colt/Luke's rarely seen daughter (they're kids)

Scarlett, Will & Gunnar (also no connection to this storyline)

Layla, Jeff (not involved)

Teddy & Natasha (they have their own drama. I can't see it, but who knows)

Avery (he is on Pete's shit list, but I still think it's unlikely)

Luke (not involved, but...???)

Tami Taylor (Just joking, smiley13. Just joking)

 

Highly Likely:

Sadie

Pete

 

When I look at it like this, I think they will have to involve a major/regular recurring character or else, it's just Sadie and Pete off in their own little shoot out.

Edited March 8, 2015 by Soup333

[Dandesun]

I don't know what to say about the slap really. Part of me gets it... part of me's like 'Really?' But the way Rayna broke down before and then after was really beautifully done.

 

But even more than that... oh, that song. Esten and Britton really do an amazing job playing two characters who are clearly the loves of each other's lives, through all the turmoil and pain and everything that goes with it. Bravi. I kind of resent that I have had that song stuck in my head all week. I don't even like contemporary country music. (Hell, I only like a very specific amount and a lot of that is because I grew up on it.)

 

As for Luke... it's interesting to me how many people here refer to Nashville as a 'soap opera' in a derogatory fashion when Nashville is doing something that the few remaining soaps don't do... let characters develop. Luke seemed little more than a spoiler but now they're letting him settle in and show different sides to him, same with Avery because I remember he was pretty awful in the first half of season one and now he's awesome, Jeff's another one that was basically little more than a villain but they're allowing him to show different facets as well. The actual network soaps don't do that anymore. It's frustrating as hell to see shows that have five episodes a week completely disregard digging deeper, playing with different shades and facets of a character or a situation... they have the time to do it but the nighttime soaps do it better now.

 

Pete actually was a character on One Life to Live over a decade ago. Not a major player but a decent one. (And he has one of the most beautiful shoulder tattoos I've ever seen... koi fish and water and just freaking gorgeous... I'm guessing we're not likely to see Pete showing that off. It seems rather unlikely a guy like Pete would even have a tattoo like that.) I'm not expecting Pete to suddenly turn over a new leaf or anything, I think he's clearly a one-note villain that will drive Sadie's story forward and possibly be the reason Deacon's liver donor is found. But with characters like Luke and Jeff and Layla as well... what they started out as isn't all that they are and that's a good thing.

[RedheadZombie]

Deacon's doctor (we need him. Who else is going to do the transplant?)

 

A transplant surgeon.  But then on television, any old MD does organ transplants.

 

As for Luke... it's interesting to me how many people here refer to Nashville as a 'soap opera' in a derogatory fashion when Nashville is doing something that the few remaining soaps don't do... let characters develop. Luke seemed little more than a spoiler but now they're letting him settle in and show different sides to him, same with Avery because I remember he was pretty awful in the first half of season one and now he's awesome, Jeff's another one that was basically little more than a villain but they're allowing him to show different facets as well. The actual network soaps don't do that anymore. It's frustrating as hell to see shows that have five episodes a week completely disregard digging deeper, playing with different shades and facets of a character or a situation... they have the time to do it but the nighttime soaps do it better now.

 

I was never a big fan of Luke's, but I'm interested in him sticking around.  His history with Rayna makes me more invested in the label rivalry.  I would like them to avoid the easy route and have Luke actually be sensitive with Will's revelation.  Luke is fabulously wealthy, but he was able to hang out with Gunnar and Will and seemed like just one of the guys.  He reminds me of the Toby Keith song, White Trash with Money.  He's just a blue collar guy at heart.  I wish they would bring back Tandy for him, I thought the two had great chemistry, and I would like to see how Rayna would react.

 

Rayna and Deacon are obviously end game, but happiness is always a killer on television.  They need more conflict, and I'd like to see a more organic and natural challenge versus another cheating storyline.  That's why I dislike how much Maddie is pushing them to get together.  It would be more interesting if Maddie was mature enough to see how dysfunctional they've always been and resist the coupling.  That's far more organic than a potential shooting from a D level character or Rayna being tempted away by yet another man. Maybe let sweet Daphne attempt to sabotage the relationship due to her loyalty to Teddy.  I prefer watching all the interpersonal dynamics inherent to remarriages and step-fathers.  I ultimately want them a happy family, but not too quickly or easy, it's far more satisfying when they struggle a bit first.  And please no more car accidents, comas, or cancer.  And no soap opera twist like Pam walking into Deacon's hospital room with a nine month pregnant belly.