Spoilers and Discussion

[Hookian]

Maybe she's starting to fall in love with teaching these new kids and that's where her focus is that and the relationship she's forming with Sam.

[Glorfindel]

^And that would be the worst ending possible for Rachel, and the kids she'll be teaching too for that matter.

 

I don't agree. You're really trying to suggest Rachel is some sort of slut or something when she likely has not had anybody since her and Finn had sex after the Wemma almost marriage wedding reception. That's well more than 2 years ago. She may as well have grown her virginity back. 

Please tell me you don't mean that.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Glorfindel

[Myrna123]

I don't think the relationship with Sam is going to be anywhere near the story it's being made out to be here. The character has never been of much interest to Murphy or the rest--it's not like a majority of the viewers cared when Overstreet wasn't signed on as a regular--there's just no investment by much of anybody in the character. The only time I ever notcied an uptick of interest in him was when he was paired with Mercedes, but I think that's owed more toward a lot of viewer goodwill for Amber Riley. Sam's journey has never had any major focus on Glee and I don't see that changing. My sense is he's just a means to illustrate that Rachel will have both a personal life and a performing life. That the personal life is with Sam won't matter to the majority of viewers who haven't shown interest in him before and owes more to an Everest excuse than anything--because he's there.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Myrna123

[tom87]

I don't think he fits what they want for their special snowflake.

But he actually would've worked quite well as a first post-Finn romance. He knew Finn but wasn't in his inner circle, so would understand any reluctance on Rachel's part but doesn't look like Finn 2.0.

Can you please stop with the special snowflake and insults it is getting really old.  Not asking you to love her but just dial it back a notch or two.

Edited January 6, 2015 by tom87

[Hookian]

^And that would be the worst ending possible for Rachel, and the kids she'll be teaching too for that matter.

 

Please tell me you don't mean that.

It's a figure of speech. You've never heard of a person saying it's been so long since they've had sex that they may as well have grown back their virginity?

[camussie]

My sense is he's just a means to illustrate that Rachel will have both a personal life and a performing life

 

 

I think the issue is if she ends the show with him after they have exchanged declarations of love that means he will be her endgame which automatically makes him the romance TPTB are trying to tell us is the one that will last "forever."  I still don't think the writing will have earned that.  For example, I don't see how she can have a personal life with Sam and a performing life on Broadway given that he quite clearly doesn't want to be anywhere near NY and I am one who wants Rachel to head back to Broadway.  

 

Now if they are smart they would just set it up as a fling to show Rachel is open to romance again. Unfortunately I happen to agree they will try to make it much deeper than that and that is where I feel it falls apart.  

Edited January 6, 2015 by camussie

[Cranberry]

Can you please stop with the special snowflake and insults it is getting really old.  Not asking you to love her but just dial it back a notch or two.

 

While I personally hate the term "special snowflake" (I think that at this point it's basically shorthand for "[usually female] character I don't like"), people are allowed to "insult" characters on a TV show, and they're free to use that term. It's only an issue if they use racist/misogynistic language when discussing the character, or if they start personally insulting their fellow posters.

[Hookian]

I still think Rachel is heading off to nyc in the series finale but I don't think samchel will break up. If anything quite the opposite. If they're hesitant to say "I love you" they're probably saving it for a big moment. Probably will be this and then they promise that this isn't over and rachels on her merry way. Ff a couple years later we find out they kept that promise. Everything else can be left to the imagination. It's a very simple thing to do it being the series finale and all.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Hookian

[caracas1914]

We have no idea if there will even be a flash forward.

For all we know Rachel will discover Sam is lousy in bed and never say " I love you" but instead "get the fuck out of my bed".

With the amount of spoilers that we have IMO that is as of now just as probable as they ending up together. On that same track, wouldn't be surprised if they fuck like rabbits since neither has been putting out for months and then realize there is nothing there but friends with benefits.

On a more positive note, Santana in the sneak peek scene of the Originals looked amazing.

[KatWay]

 

I still think Rachel is heading off to nyc in the series finale but I don't think samchel will break up. If anything quite the opposite. If they're hesitant to say "I love you" they're probably saving it for a big moment. Probably will be this and then they promise that this isn't over and rachels on her merry way. Ff a couple years later we find out they kept that promise. Everything else can be left to the imagination. It's a very simple thing to do it being the series finale and all.

 

Well, in that case I hope they at least don't do a FF. That way I can pretend they break up five minutes after the finale.

Edited January 6, 2015 by KatWay

[Sara2009]

My worst fear is that we'll get a flashforward of Kurt/Blaine with children.

It would be way too " Harry Potter." I also need to be able to pretend that they divorce within a year.

[shantown]

Are there any new spoilers besides the possible Samchel? Have they started filming again yet this year?

[jaytee1812]

Oh goodness, we're probably going to get a flash forward of all the couples with their kids.

And they'll all still be with the people they dated in high school, except Mercedes who don't need no man! Ugh!

[tom87]

Are there any new spoilers besides the possible Samchel? Have they started filming again yet this year?

It does not seem they have started up again.   It does seem most of the prinicpal cast is back in LA now so should be soon.

[spiritof76]

 

 

What I absolutely hate is Mercedes being made to look like a jerk for not giving Sam what he wanted (making her responsible for not being able to keep her man). Her faith is such an intrinsic part of her character and all last season, Sam was understanding and considerate and wasn't going to push her to do something she wasn't ready for. Now his first concern is if he's finally going to get some from her? What's next? That he has needs and Mercedes has an obligation to meet them?

It's gross and is just being used as an excuse to justify Sam getting together with Rachel down the road. 

All of THIS!!!!

 

I have been trying mightily to hold my tongue and I just can't anymore. This Sam/Rachel whatever is a bunch of bull! I do not care if it was always, planned, just planned, telegraphed or sent by Morse Code, it sucks! All of the reasons why this sucks for Rachel have been spelled out and I agree wholeheartedly.. Yes this makes her looks like a bad friend. She had a personal, heart to heart talk with Mercedes as a friend, where Mercedes told her how she felt about Sam, that he was willing to wait on the sex, issue, etc. And in the convo Rachel, said, "Well you guys are obviously soul mates. Any 17 year old guy willing to wait to have sex, must really love you." And when Mercedes asked her point blank, if there had been something between Rachel and Sam, Rachel, brushed it off and said "No, I thought maybe, but I think it was just because he reminded me of home/Finn". (can't remember which she said exactly). And it was I thought it was a really great scene between Rachel and Mercedes and showed their history. (They've had other heart-to hearts) And then when Mercedes was about to go on tour Rachel was apart of the group of "friends" who suggested that she and Sam break up "for now". So, no Rachel doesn't need Mercedes permission to do anything, but as a friend, the very least she owes her is to NOT sneak around behind her back. If her feelings and love for Sam are strong and so importnat to her, than she should be willing to be bold and out and public with it and willing to take any consequences that come (possibly losing a friend). That's what adults, who are proud of and own their choices do. And then of course there are all the other reasons this is bad for Rachel's story, like implying the only way she can get her happy ending is with a guy. And having it be a guy she has no history with and nothing in common with.

 

What i really want to focus on is what this spoiler means for Mercedes. And this is what has really gotten me angry, in spite of myself. I mean, I thought I could not get angrier with their depiction of women of color after the the "Great Tot Wars of 2009/2010 or the "You're so lazy" debacle of 2012. But no. What they are planning to do to Mercedes now takes the cake. Let me explain. Mercedes is the only Glee girl that went almost 2 seasons without a hint of a romantic relationship (except that fake thing with Puck that lasted one episode). The rest of that Glee Club spent years, crushing on each other, mooning over each other and changing partners like they were at a square dance. Main characters and secondary characters. The only one left out of all the fun? Mercedes, who just happens to be the plus, sized African-American girl in the group. And she also just happened to be the one who they made sure was always saying how, she didn't need a man, etc. cause you know us strong, black women! Other then the Sam relationship they never showed her being pursued or desired or part of any of the romantic goings on, unless she was supporting someone else. (No, I'm not counting Shane because we didn't really see anything with them. Now that was a relationship that was treated as a joke and a "placemat". The guy they were setting her up for a relationship was not on the show at the start of the seasons and they literally slotted another guy in there.) I know we get on TPTB for constantly having the girls running after these guys and feeling like they need to be paired up and that is very valid. But for African-American women on TV and in movies that is not often the case. We usually get to be the sassy friend with no man, can't keep a man, don't want a man, to loud/crazy for a man, pick your stereotype. You know one of the reasons Scandal is such a big hit? Black women. It is exciting seeing someone that looks like us being pursued and desired and sexual and not perfect and messy and all the other things that white actresses get to be.So when Glee, this show, supposedly about the underdog. The show supposedly about showing their young impressionable audience, characters that look like them. This show supposedly about turning stereotypes on its head (i know, I know. I'm not talking about what it is, but what they keep saying it is) When that show goes out of its way to pair up all of its female characters (main and secondary) and the one character who will be left without a significant other is the black, plus size girl. And the reason will be because the guy she had her one real relationship with, is now dating her white friend, then yes, some people are going to feel some kind of way about it. And feel like Mercedes and really women of color are being diminished in some way. And what is worse, I guarantee they will have Mercedes be super ok with it and probably even encourage it (there's that sassy ,supportive, friend stereotype again). And they will probably have her talk about how she doesn't need a man anyway because she's fabulous and got her super career now. And that is an awesome message to send. But just like there are young LGBT youth out there who see Blaine and Kurt and Brittany and Santana, find love and professional success (again, I know, I know, their stories suck, bu the writers think they are showing this), there are young girls of color, who aren't a size 2 who would like to think that maybe their happy ending includes career and love as well. So yes, even though I know it is Glee. And yes, after Sam's, "Are you still a virgin" comment in the clip, I'm not so crazy about her ending up with Sam anyway, I still feel like the message they are sending, whether they mean to or not is very problematic. 

 

 Fun fact, Rachel is actually kind of responsible for Samcedes. Back when Mercedes confided to her that she really did want to go to prom. which is when Rachel came up with the "3-Way Date, But Not The Dirty Kind", with Sam. Which I think we are to believe led to something between Sam and Mercedes(probably while Rachel was busy having Jesse and Finn fight over her and getting slapped by Quinn) because a few episodes later in the season finale they were secretly dating

 

As for whether or not the writers took Samcedes seriously, they seem to take them as seriously as any other couple. They got the same shitty and uneven writing as everyone else from what I could see.Summer-gate 2011 happened, Chord didn't come back, didn't look like he was coming back, so they slapped Mercedes with a convenient football player boyfriend that we barely saw. Then Ryan and Chord kissed and made up. Sam is back and they right away address their relationship and have him spend a good part of Season 3 chasing after her. She sang him the frickin ultimate love song! ("I Will Always Love You") He cried and ran out of the room for goodness sake! Then Season 4 came and the writers admittedly didn't mention them at all. They had Sam go all in on being in love with Brittany and then in the start of Season 5 Nurse Penny. So Samcedes was done and could have stayed done. They didn't need to to do it again. It was dead and buried. They didn't have to have Mercedes move to New York, they could have moved Tina there if they wanted another girl. They had already tried to hint at Sam/Tina. They could have gone that route. But no. They chose to go the Sam/Mercedes route and I think they were much more than a "placeholder" (which is the word I think you are looking for, a placemat is a thing on a table.) When they broke them up they could have had them fight and break up, have Sam out and out cheat on her by sleeping with someone else (not just be tempted), they could have ended things hating each other or just simply deciding they weren't right for each other. That happens. But they didn't. The writers went through the trouble of them having this big, heartfelt talk about how they weren't breaking up because they didn't love each other, but because the timing just wasn't right for them, partly because of the sex issue (and can Mercedes get some kind of handclap or something for being the only one in this group that was like, "Nope, not ready for marriage yet!" ?) but also let's not forget Mercedes career was taking off and she was rightly in my opinion prioritizing that, as I believe Rachel should. So all of these things happened. On screen. Not in somebody's head. We don't get to hand wave away and diminish the actual things that happen on screen, as a "joke" or not real or insignificant because they don't line up with what we think is important. If we are expected to take as serious whatever is going to happen with Rachel and Sam based on whatever we see on screen, then I would think we could do the same for the Samcedes relationship. It was as real as any other relationship on this show and handled as such. The same will be true of whatever happens with Sam and Rachel on screen, whether I like it or not (and I won't). doesn't matter, because I will know it is what the writers intended because they wrote it and filmed it and put it on the screen. If they didn't mean it they wouldn't bother. For any of the stories. 

 

(And yes I know the writing for all of the characters has been and is looking like it will be crappy, but I purposely wanted to focus on how these spoilers affect Mercedes. I know other characters/minority groups fair poorly on the show as well).

[Hookian]

Oh goodness, we're probably going to get a flash forward of all the couples with their kids. 

 

Oh God please no. The only thing I would like is a FF to them all attending Rachel's Tony award winning night. 

[Glorfindel]

It's a figure of speech. You've never heard of a person saying it's been so long since they've had sex that they may as well have grown back their virginity?

It's still gross, figure of speech or not.

 

And besides, Rachel is a young woman who has enjoyed sex very much with both Finn and Brody (at the same time even), so why would she not enjoy sex again if the occassion arises? It's not as if you unlearn having sex, if anything it makes you want it more after not having done it a long time.

 

And why are we even discussing this in the first place? I think measuring the value and quality of a relationship by how soon the couple does or does not have sex after they start dating is stupid anyway, and even kind of slut-shaming and misogynistic when implied it's the girl's promiscuity that matters more in this than the guy's.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Glorfindel

[shantown]

We know (from Twitter) that Naya and Heather are done filming. Is anyone else done? They only have a couple episodes left to shoot, right?

Edited January 7, 2015 by shantown

[Craphole Island]

I don't see the big deal about Sam/Rachel. I understand everyone's opinions (even if I don't necessarily agree) but I really don't think it's going to be THAT big of a plotline.

 

To be honest, it sounds like from spoilers Sam interacts mostly with Sue and Beiste, but I have no idea. I'm only half caught-up on what's going on.

[Hookian]

As for whether or not the writers took Samcedes seriously, they seem to take them as seriously as any other couple. They got the same shitty and uneven writing as everyone else from what I could see.Summer-gate 2011 happened, Chord didn't come back, didn't look like he was coming back, so they slapped Mercedes with a convenient football player boyfriend that we barely saw. Then Ryan and Chord kissed and made up. Sam is back and they right away address their relationship and have him spend a good part of Season 3 chasing after her. She sang him the frickin ultimate love song! ("I Will Always Love You") He cried and ran out of the room for goodness sake! Then Season 4 came and the writers admittedly didn't mention them at all. They had Sam go all in on being in love with Brittany and then in the start of Season 5 Nurse Penny. So Samcedes was done and could have stayed done. They didn't need to to do it again. It was dead and buried. They didn't have to have Mercedes move to New York, they could have moved Tina there if they wanted another girl. They had already tried to hint at Sam/Tina. They could have gone that route. But no. They chose to go the Sam/Mercedes route and I think they were much more than a "placeholder" (which is the word I think you are looking for, a placemat is a thing on a table.) When they broke them up they could have had them fight and break up, have Sam out and out cheat on her by sleeping with someone else (not just be tempted), they could have ended things hating each other or just simply deciding they weren't right for each other. That happens. But they didn't. The writers went through the trouble of them having this big, heartfelt talk about how they weren't breaking up because they didn't love each other, but because the timing just wasn't right for them, partly because of the sex issue (and can Mercedes get some kind of handclap or something for being the only one in this group that was like, "Nope, not ready for marriage yet!" ?) but also let's not forget Mercedes career was taking off and she was rightly in my opinion prioritizing that, as I believe Rachel should. So all of these things happened. On screen. Not in somebody's head. We don't get to hand wave away and diminish the actual things that happen on screen, as a "joke" or not real or insignificant because they don't line up with what we think is important. If we are expected to take as serious whatever is going to happen with Rachel and Sam based on whatever we see on screen, then I would think we could do the same for the Samcedes relationship. It was as real as any other relationship on this show and handled as such. The same will be true of whatever happens with Sam and Rachel on screen, whether I like it or not (and I won't). doesn't matter, because I will know it is what the writers intended because they wrote it and filmed it and put it on the screen. If they didn't mean it they wouldn't bother. For any of the stories. 

 

(And yes I know the writing for all of the characters has been and is looking like it will be crappy, but I purposely wanted to focus on how these spoilers affect Mercedes. I know other characters/minority groups fair poorly on the show as well).

 

They didn't take them seriously, I'm sorry. Just look at how every couple on this show was treated, Samcedes was treated as an afterthought for almost the entire time. Never the A plot of an episode, always the B or C plot. 

 

Sure they had them circle around each other but they didn't take them seriously. Evidenced by them completely burying them in S4. They do not like this couple, they've shown it on more than a couple of occasions and the sneak peek is just further proof of that fact. Now I will say that again there was a gamechanger in their original plan so they had to come up with something else. So they came up with Samchel from there and the hints with shining neon lights that there was something their in Movin' Out happened. Brad Falchuk even said that "it's too soon but I would like it."

 

Aside from being a placeholder(thank you for the clarification  for Samchel, Samcedes allowed them another thing to do. It allowed them to echo their dislike for the couple through their characters, it allowed them to ride on the tails of Amber's DWTS victory and hope it would have brought interest to the show, and it allowed them to show how incompatible the two are by them consistently fighting over petty things every episode and their friends even saying they should break up. It was essentially as simple as that, and Amber is coming back this season to be used in the Sam and Rachel storyline. Is it a waste of her talent, absolutely, but it's RIB. This is how they do there couples.

 

Nothing has changed from S1. One of the most obvious reasons that to me they never ever took Samcedes seriously is they NEVER let them sing a duet(aside from HN) which in Glee language is how they do love stories with the kids. With Adults, it's focused more on the story, w/ Wemma, duets literally come once every two seasons if that. Samcedes, especially during the NYC arc had so many opportunities and songs to choose from to do together. They just didn't bother with it, nor care to. Meanwhile this season we have two Samchel duets confirmed plus a very heavily rumored third on the way. That's kind of ridiculous, when you think about it. 

 

I mean to me it's been clear from get go that Samcedes was merely something to stall Samchel till they could do it this season. They wanted Rachel(the lead) to mourn Finn for one season, respectively. TBH in actuality they were seriously probably considering doing Samchel when they did in 5B and that would have left a bad taste in my mouth because it was only a couple months since Finn died. This one is more respectable because more time has passed.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Hookian

[Hana Chan]

What I don't get (and have never understood) is that for Rachel to get something usually means that it gets taken away from someone else. Giving Rachel a love interest should not necessarily mean that someone else in their group must sacrifice their own. And I don't agree that Samchel has been in the works for a long time. Not until after Cory died and even if they had an idea to pair Sam up with Rachel at one point, they spent a lot of time before and after developing Sam's relationship with Mercedes. It was their dominant storyline for the later half of season five (once everyone was in NY together). And I don't buy the bullshit that it was only Amber's win on DWTS that made the show have to deal with their relationship and forestall an eventual Sam/Rachel pairing. If that was the case, why show their relationship as getting serious, with both acknowledging their love for one another and spending so much time hashing out the issues of Mercedes chastity and how it affected their relationship.

 

You can't just erase that kind of a storyline, which had a lot of merit, because it's inconvenient with making sure that Rachel isn't left as some kind of spinster. There are plenty of ways to show that she's done mourning Finn and ready to move on without ensuring that someone else ends the show alone.

[SNeaker]

You can't just erase that kind of a storyline, which had a lot of merit, because it's inconvenient with making sure that Rachel isn't left as some kind of spinster.

 

Yeah, they could steal Quinn's love interest.

 

Ha ha ha, I kid. I wouldn't want that anyway at this point because it would mean I'd have to watch. :D

 

Slow clap for spiritof76's post. LOL, Morse Code.

Edited January 7, 2015 by SNeaker

[Hookian]

What I don't get (and have never understood) is that for Rachel to get something usually means that it gets taken away from someone else. Giving Rachel a love interest should not necessarily mean that someone else in their group must sacrifice their own. And I don't agree that Samchel has been in the works for a long time. Not until after Cory died and even if they had an idea to pair Sam up with Rachel at one point, they spent a lot of time before and after developing Sam's relationship with Mercedes. It was their dominant storyline for the later half of season five (once everyone was in NY together). And I don't buy the bullshit that it was only Amber's win on DWTS that made the show have to deal with their relationship and forestall an eventual Sam/Rachel pairing. If that was the case, why show their relationship as getting serious, with both acknowledging their love for one another and spending so much time hashing out the issues of Mercedes chastity and how it affected their relationship.

 

You can't just erase that kind of a storyline, which had a lot of merit, because it's inconvenient with making sure that Rachel isn't left as some kind of spinster. There are plenty of ways to show that she's done mourning Finn and ready to move on without ensuring that someone else ends the show alone.

 

Samchel was not planned from the very beginning. It was obviously planned though after the unexpected and unfortunate death of Cory. 

 

As far as they can't erase storylines. They've already done this, multiple times. Heck with Samcedes they erased everything and didn't even let them interact for a year and a half. They can do it again. That sneak peek and Sam's line is literally what they've been doing to all the past couples on the show. They make fun of them. 

 

Amber's role on the show this season is literally for the Sam and Rachel storyline, I doubt she has anything coming up for her character alone unless she might be one of the supports for Bieste's transition.

 

Emma still has the best line when it comes to this "you Glee kids have dated so incestously that I can't even remember who can tolerate who anymore". Best line ever!

Edited January 7, 2015 by Hookian

[spiritof76]

 

They didn't take them seriously, I'm sorry.

You do realize that is an opinion, not a fact? Just like my (and other peoples) feeling that Samcedes was taken seriously. That is my opinion. Neither one is more or less valid. They just are. Unless you are Ryan Murphy and Brad Falchuck or are on the writing staff, no one can state as fact what the writers intent is or was. Heck we learned from Summer 2011 that even when Ryan says something in an interview it might not be true. You clearly believe strongly that Samchel was the plan all along and Samcedes was a joke and that it your prerogative. Well there are others who feel differently and I doubt they will be changing their minds.

 

 

What I don't get (and have never understood) is that for Rachel to get something usually means that it gets taken away from someone else

Yes! That bothers me as well. Just on the face of it, the optics look awful. And like I said, you know they are going to have Mercedes hand wave it way, and say something like, "Rachel you deserve to he be happy/in love/whatever." Mercedes probably won't even be given the personal agency to be a little hurt or upset. Nope i'm guessing all smiles and sassy finger snaps for our girl Mercedes. Hell, they may have her sing them a song. Wouldn't shock me. 

 

 

 

Yeah, they could steal Quinn's love interest.

Ha ha ha, I kid. I wouldn't want that anyway at this point because it would mean I'd have to watch. :D

Ugh! I would watch that too!!!! They actually could have tried to do something with those two. It would have probably been a mess, but I would have bought it. 

 

I'll say this, if they did just show Samcedes to make fun of them and show them to be a joke then, that was in very bad taste, because the implication seems to be that someone that looks like Mercedes doesn't deserve to have a relationship that is taken seriously. If the only real relationship they gave her was used solely as a joke then these writers are worse then I ever thought, and I think they are awful. But since I don't actually know their intentions, because I wasn't there when they wrote it, on this I will give them the benefit of the doubt, that they did not set up the African-American, plus sized woman on the show to be in a joke relationship. 

 

Another fun fact, the whole sex?celibacy issue with Sam and Mercedes and a lot of Mercedes lines were apparently contributed by Amber. This was one of the episodes they were live tweeting and I believe Brad who directed mentioned that. He said they worked with her on it, because initially they were going to have them have sex. But when Amber mentioned Mercedes perhaps waiting, he thought it was a good, different angle. (and I do think it was different then the other "waiting" stories they have told. I actually think it was handled very maturely. Look at that, I just complimented Glee! surely these are the ends times!) He also said, he really loved the scene between Rachel and Mercedes. So for whatever that's worth.

Edited January 7, 2015 by spiritof76

[truthaboutluv]

Personally, I haven't gotten the impression RIB take ANY character/storyline seriously. Seems like a bunch of hackneyed contrived shit thrown together depending on whatever mood they're in.

[Hookian]

You do realize that is an opinion, not a fact? Just like my (and other peoples) feeling that Samcedes was taken seriously. That is my opinion. Neither one is more or less valid. They just are. Unless you are Ryan Murphy and Brad Falchuck or are on the writing staff, no one can state as fact what the writers intent is or was. Heck we learned from Summer 2011 that even when Ryan says something in an interview it might not be true. You clearly believe strongly that Samchel was the plan all along and Samcedes was a joke and that it your prerogative. Well there are others who feel differently and I doubt they will be changing their minds.

Yes! That bothers me as well. Just on the face of it, the optics look awful. And like I said, you know they are going to have Mercedes hand wave it way, and say something like, "Rachel you deserve to he be happy/in love/whatever." Mercedes probably won't even be given the personal agency to be a little hurt or upset. Nope i'm guessing all smiles and sassy finger snaps for our girl Mercedes. Hell, they may have her sing them a song. Wouldn't shock me.

Ugh! I would watch that too!!!! They actually could have tried to do something with those two. It would have probably been a mess, but I would have bought it.

I'll say this, if they did just show Samcedes to make fun of them and show them to be a joke then, that was in very bad taste, because the implication seems to be that someone that looks like Mercedes doesn't deserve to have a relationship that is taken seriously. If the only real relationship they gave her was used solely as a joke then these writers are worse then I ever thought, and I think they are awful. But since I don't actually know their intentions, because I wasn't there when they wrote it, on this I will give them the benefit of the doubt, that they did not set up the African-American, plus sized woman on the show to be in a joke relationship.

Another fun fact, the whole sex?celibacy issue with Sam and Mercedes and a lot of Mercedes lines were apparently contributed by Amber. This was one of the episodes they were live tweeting and I believe Brad who directed mentioned that. He said they worked with her on it, because initially they were going to have them have sex. But when Amber mentioned Mercedes perhaps waiting, he thought it was a good, different angle. (and I do think it was different then the other "waiting" stories they have told. I actually think it was handled very maturely. Look at that, I just complimented Glee! surely these are the ends times!) He also said, he really loved the scene between Rachel and Mercedes. So for whatever that's worth.

I don't think it's an opinion not when we look at how the writers have treated this pairing. I still have no idea why they didn't give them a single duet during the nyc arc. They haven't had a duet since human nature and that says something imp. Another thing, why didn't they do a parallel between samcedes and one of the couples. These writers love their parallels. They salivated over the consistent finchel klaine parallels so why not bother with giving us some for samcedes?

Meanwhile look at the spoilers we have for samchel. Clearly they have no shame givng them two duets with a rumored third one on the way. Clearly they have no shame paralleling them to klaine(episode 4 plot).

So why didn't they bother doing any of these things for samcedes? It couldn't possibly be because they knew they were going to split them up again, could it. After ignoring them for a year and half they brought them back with the purpose of halting samchel till this season. Indicated from spoilers seems to be the case.

I mean let's take into account just general spoilers from the first 2 episodes and what we know.

The writers wrote a throwaway line played for laughs for samcedes past relationship. About literally 5 seconds of screen time.

Meanwhile samchel have the talk on the field, the scene at wills house, moments in 2 songs(take on me and home). We all have seen the sequence from take on me, the writers are not being subtle. Samchel are literally paralleling the video of the lovers looking at each other in the mirror and Rachel even makes it even less subtle when she kisses the mirror with Sam on the other side.

Amber will not be back until episode 5 as well.

I mean the difference in how they're treating both pairings is staggering. That's why I say that samcedes was literally used as a placeholder for the story they wanted to tell but couldn't so they had to wait till this season to do it. Which is samchel. Am I saying it was a smart plan, no. But there intentions are very clear.

Mercedes is literally only coming back this season to be used in the Sam and Rachel storyline.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Hookian

[spiritof76]

 

Personally, I haven't gotten the impression RIB take ANY character/storyline seriously. Seems like a bunch of hackneyed contrived shit thrown together depending on whatever mood they're in.

Exactly, which is why I feel that Samcedes has been treated as seriously as any other story on this show. They are in very good (terrible) company.

 

Of all the relationships this show has churned through, they brought back a relationship that they had previously ended  (twice) just to make fun of it and make it clear they hate it? Because people were so up in arms about it? There weren't enough people in the general audience going on and on about how Sam and Mercedes "had no chemistry", and "didn't look right together" (it was said. Trust me.) They felt like they had to spend a whole swath of episodes shining a light on it? After they hadn't talked about it for a season and a half? They needed to remind everybody that they hated Samcedes?  I guess.

 

 

Mercedes is literally only coming back this season to be used in the Sam and Rachel storyline.

Ok. Thanks for clearing that up for everybody.

Edited January 7, 2015 by spiritof76

[Myrna123]

I don't think it's an opinion not when we look at how the writers have treated this pairing.

So it sounds like it's your opinion that your opinion is not an opinion.

No matter how belligerently you bludgeon the forum with your impression of what's going to happen, it's still just your interpretation of some sketchy spoiler info followed by leap upon leap upon leap of logic like duets = life altering true love for two characters you're passionately invested in being a Glee end game.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Myrna123

[SevenStars]

So it sounds like it's your opinion that your opinion is not an opinion.

No matter how belligerently you bludgeon the forum with your impression of what's going to happen, it's still just your interpretation of some sketchy spoiler info followed by leap upon leap upon leap of logic like duets = life altering true love for two characters you're passionately invested in being a Glee end game.

 

 Trying to dismissed everything about Samcedes in order to claim that Samchel is so much more serious and better, lol.

[spiritof76]

 

Trying to dismissed everything about Samcedes in order to claim that Samchel is so much more serious and better, lol.

Pretty much! LOL!

Edited January 7, 2015 by spiritof76

[Cranberry]

Guys, take the sarcasm down a notch, would you? We don't even know exactly what's going to happen yet, so arguing about your speculation is silly.

 

I would also like to remind everyone that if you click on the user icon at the top of the screen, you can go to "manage ignore prefs" and hide posts from anyone whose opinions you'd rather not see, and then we can all enjoy the peace and quiet.

[Hookian]

So it sounds like it's your opinion that your opinion is not an opinion.

No matter how belligerently you bludgeon the forum with your impression of what's going to happen, it's still just your interpretation of some sketchy spoiler info followed by leap upon leap upon leap of logic like duets = life altering true love for two characters you're passionately invested in being a Glee end game.

Sketchy spoilers everything I said had been confirmed as true. What if my spoilers in that post is not true? Samchel have moments in 2 songs, confirmed by media whom saw the episode along with the scenes in the football field and wills house where they sit together. Samcedes has a 5 second throw away line played for laughs.

Amber is not gonna come back till episode 5 and it's after the episode with the samchel plot line. Rachel is the female lead so she's not being used in the samcedes storyline but Mercedes is coming back immediately after samchel kiss.

The two samchel duets are confirmed and if you look at their second duet from promises promises you can bet that they will fall in love since that's essentially what the song is suggesting. Especially if you watch the performance because the performance contradicts the lyrics beautifully.

What spoiler have I contradicted from my previous post? Everything I've said is confirmed, there's nkthing sketchy about them.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Cranberry
Edited out the sarcasm. You can make your points just fine without it.

[Myrna123]

What spoiler have I contradicted from my previous post? Everything I've said is confirmed, there's nkthing sketchy about them.

Every spoiler is sketchy until the episode plays and it makes it to the screen. Here's what you're doing with the spoilers: Amber Riley is a favorite of the glee writers and they broke up samcedes because they didn't want her to have to work with chord anymore. They can't stand lea's diva ways (that's a fact) so they're throwing her under the bus. chord has been paired with every single actress on glee because he's a nightmare to work with and no actress will continue on as his girlfriend for more than a handful of episodes. He's the only one who's had to be cycled through every single actress on the show--why do you think that is? There's no other possible explanation but the one I'm giving. I'm sorry but it's true and everything you see on screen is evidence of this. Too bad if it's not what you want to hear but it's clear if you just look at the facts.

[SevenStars]

Every spoiler is sketchy until the episode plays and it makes it to the screen. Here's what you're doing with the spoilers: Amber Riley is a favorite of the glee writers and they broke up samcedes because they didn't want her to have to work with chord anymore. They can't stand lea's diva ways (that's a fact) so they're throwing her under the bus. chord has been paired with every single actress on glee because he's a nightmare to work with and no actress will continue on as his girlfriend for more than a handful of episodes. He's the only one who's had to be cycled through every single actress on the show--why do you think that is? There's no other possible explanation but the one I'm giving. I'm sorry but it's true and everything you see on screen is evidence of this. Too bad if it's not what you want to hear but it's clear if you just look at the facts.

 

Lmao, I guess facts are facts.

[Ann Mack]

Guys, take the sarcasm down a notch, would you? We don't even know exactly what's going to happen yet, so arguing about your speculation is silly.

 

I would also like to remind everyone that if you click on the user icon at the top of the screen, you can go to "manage ignore prefs" and hide posts from anyone whose opinions you'd rather not see, and then we can all enjoy the peace and quiet.

 

Thank you for that information. 

[caracas1914]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that Santana will be gone by episode 8. Fucking Episode 8 of a limited 13 episode season.

[spiritof76]

 

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that Santana will be gone by episode 8. Fucking Episode 8 of a limited 13 episode season.

I'm holding out hope that maybe they shot some scenes out of order? Maybe they did some group stuff when they had everyone together even if they were filming another episode at the time. I know they have filmed out of order before. I know, grasping at straws. I just refuse to believe there won't be some kind of group scene/number in the very last episode at least. 

[SevenStars]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that Santana will be gone by episode 8. Fucking Episode 8 of a limited 13 episode season.

 

And she wasn't even in all 8 episodes. This is one of the reason I didn't like the premise of this new season because it limited ways in which the writers could incorporate most of the characters.

[Ann Mack]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that Santana will be gone by episode 8. Fucking Episode 8 of a limited 13 episode season.

 

I'm not sure what they were really thinking of for this last season. Members from season 1 that a lot of fans want to see are being given limited appearances, songs, and screen time. Its unfortunate because they are the ones who really made the show a success for the first 3 seasons. But for some reason RIB decided that's not the route they wanted to take. I'm still wondering who are those fans who he/they listened to for this final season. Very little of what I've read or heard speculation about what is happening this final season is what I wanted. I wanted a happy ending, progression, depth and a meaningful send-off for each character especially those who have been with the show for the entire 6 year run.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that Santana will be gone by episode 8. Fucking Episode 8 of a limited 13 episode season.

 

Sadly, if I recall right she only makes appearances in 2, 3, 6 and 8. I'm not sure if they filmed a group number for the finale while she was on set but if not yeah she's gone for good after the wedding episode.

[jaytee1812]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that Santana will be gone by episode 8. Fucking Episode 8 of a limited 13 episode season.

And the last thing they do is tied her down to a dimwit who can't tie her own shoelaces, thinks babies comes from storks and Santa Claus is real! Ugh I guess Naya really pissed them off last season.

[tom87]

I'm not sure what they were really thinking of for this last season. Members from season 1 that a lot of fans want to see are being given limited appearances, songs, and screen time. Its unfortunate because they are the ones who really made the show a success for the first 3 seasons. But for some reason RIB decided that's not the route they wanted to take. I'm still wondering who are those fans who he/they listened to for this final season. Very little of what I've read or heard speculation about what is happening this final season is what I wanted. I wanted a happy ending, progression, depth and a meaningful send-off for each character especially those who have been with the show for the entire 6 year run.

 

Sadly, if I recall right she only makes appearances in 2, 3, 6 and 8. I'm not sure if they filmed a group number for the finale while she was on set but if not yeah she's gone for good after the wedding episode.

Well  many of them are not under contract any more.

 

Those still not under contract may not want to do more than a few and there may be some budgetary reason.

[Ann Mack]

Well  many of them are not under contract any more.

 

Those still not under contract may not want to do more than a few and there may be some budgetary reason.

 

This is true. FOX probably did cut the budget to some degree. But they are still hiring some known actors to make appearances, some not so well known newbies, and location shoots. It's just my opinion and by no way do I know the ends and outs but I would have hoped instead of newbies, props, and what I might consider unnecessary things (again I have no idea of what goes into producing and executing a show) they could have budgeted that money to get more of the season 1 regulars and cast back for more episodes.

 

Also. maybe some only wanted limited episodes because they already had other obligations or returned for nostalgia, friends, and their fans. I guess most are also looking for the next job after the show ends.

[Hookian]

Every spoiler is sketchy until the episode plays and it makes it to the screen. Here's what you're doing with the spoilers: Amber Riley is a favorite of the glee writers and they broke up samcedes because they didn't want her to have to work with chord anymore. They can't stand lea's diva ways (that's a fact) so they're throwing her under the bus. chord has been paired with every single actress on glee because he's a nightmare to work with and no actress will continue on as his girlfriend for more than a handful of episodes. He's the only one who's had to be cycled through every single actress on the show--why do you think that is? There's no other possible explanation but the one I'm giving. I'm sorry but it's true and everything you see on screen is evidence of this. Too bad if it's not what you want to hear but it's clear if you just look at the facts.

 

Personally I don't think spoilers are sketchy when we have confirmation via tweets(2nd Samchel duet), filming pics(wedding), press releases; Amber absent till episode 5. 

 

Oh and the things I listed for this episode have been spoiled by people that saw the 2 hour episode I didn't make anything up. You're welcome to go look at the media sites twitters. There are several that saw the episode before it will air on Friday. If they wanted the audience to remember Samcedes why didn't they give them a moment during "Home" you know the moment with couple moments (Quick holding hands, Brittana eskimo kisses, and Samchel) have all been confirmed to have moments during this sequence. None for Samcedes, accept a throwaway line played for laughs at the beginning of the episode.  Also Kurt witnessing Blaine and Karofsky and then Rachel comforts him.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Hookian

[Cranberry]

I really don't want to be heavy-handed here, because I hate heavy-handed modding. But I have already asked once that people lay off the pointed sarcasm and the personal attacks. From now on I will give people a short grace period after posting to reconsider and edit their posts, but after that, posts that seem to be trying to spark a fight will disappear.

 

To clarify: Disagreement is fine. Debate is fine. Hell, some sarcasm is fine. But when you start talking down to other posters and making it obvious that you think they're stupid, you've gone too far.

 

This goes for everyone here, no matter which characters or storylines you love or hate. None of it is worth insulting other people over.

[Sara2009]

Lea said that they've filmed parts of the finale already. Maybe Naya was in some of those.

[tom87]

This is true. FOX probably did cut the budget to some degree. But they are still hiring some known actors to make appearances, some not so well known newbies, and location shoots. It's just my opinion and by no way do I know the ends and outs but I would have hoped instead of newbies, props, and what I might consider unnecessary things (again I have no idea of what goes into producing and executing a show) they could have budgeted that money to get more of the season 1 regulars and cast back for more episodes.

 

Also. maybe some only wanted limited episodes because they already had other obligations or returned for nostalgia, friends, and their fans. I guess most are also looking for the next job after the show ends.

I know it is weird.  Could be a dozen reasons why or it could just as likely be bad planning  or probably just good old BAD storytelling.

 

I think they allowed Naya back for a few episodes to finish out Santana which in way may have limited Heather too.  Same with Dianna being busy limits Mark since they are so dead set on pairing everyone off.

 

They were able to get Amber back and Kevin who it seems to be in limited use was still under contract.  Jenna for some reason they pretty much let go.

 

The newbies they probably got for real cheap.  So 3+ newbies are probably worth as much as 1 Naya appearance.

Edited January 7, 2015 by tom87

[Hookian]

I know it is weird.  Could be a dozen reasons why or it could just as likely be bad planning  or probably just good old BAD storytelling.

 

I think they allowed Naya back for a few episodes to finish out Santana which in way may have limited Heather too.  Same with Dianna being busy limits Mark since they are so dead set on pairing everyone off.

 

They were able to get Amber back and Kevin who it seems to be in limited use was still under contract.  Jenna for some reason they pretty much let go.

 

The newbies they probably got for real cheap.  So 3+ newbies are probably worth as much as 1 Naya appearance.

 

Amber and Kevin are both back for limited episodes according to foxofficial. But we already knew they wouldn't appear in all the episodes.

[spiritof76]

 

Lea said that they've filmed parts of the finale already. Maybe Naya was in some of those.

That's what I'm hoping. If they were being efficient and knew they would only have certain people at certain times, and they had an idea of the story they were trying to tell making plans to get those scenes in would they could would make sense. I know they have filmed out of order before, so fingers crossed? Whether I'm watching or not and I am leaning heavily in the NOT camp right now, I still want better for Santana then quickie marriage then, gone for good.

 

What I want to know is what is going with Kurt, besides getting married at the ripe old age of 19? 20? Will he and Blaine even be able to drink champagne at their wedding? In all seriousness did I miss some spoiler that had anything else to do with Kurt besides the Blaine stuff? Is he still in NYADA? He barely got in by the skin of his teeth (I mean he went through it!) and now they are just going to let him take a leave of absence? He's just chillin in Lima? They weren't that lenient with Rachel when she was in "Funny Girl" (nor should they have been). At least she was still in the city. Carmen was pretty clear about the type of dedication she expected. And if she wasn't willing to give Rachel too much slack when she was starring in the Broadway Musical, I can just imagine how she feels about one of her students, asking to take some time off to help coach his old high school Glee club. (Although I'm guessing Rachel's attitude also hurt her there). I would just like for Kurt, who has always been shown as being very driven, be it school, work, performing, fashion, whatever, having some sort of career path forward.

[Ann Mack]

That's what I'm hoping. If they were being efficient and knew they would only have certain people at certain times, and they had an idea of the story they were trying to tell making plans to get those scenes in would they could would make sense. I know they have filmed out of order before, so fingers crossed? Whether I'm watching or not and I am leaning heavily in the NOT camp right now, I still want better for Santana then quickie marriage then, gone for good.

 

What I want to know is what is going with Kurt, besides getting married at the ripe old age of 19? 20? Will he and Blaine even be able to drink champagne at their wedding? In all seriousness did I miss some spoiler that had anything else to do with Kurt besides the Blaine stuff? Is he still in NYADA? He barely got in by the skin of his teeth (I mean he went through it!) and now they are just going to let him take a leave of absence? He's just chillin in Lima? They weren't that lenient with Rachel when she was in "Funny Girl" (nor should they have been). At least she was still in the city. Carmen was pretty clear about the type of dedication she expected. And if she wasn't willing to give Rachel too much slack when she was starring in the Broadway Musical, I can just imagine how she feels about one of her students, asking to take some time off to help coach his old high school Glee club. (Although I'm guessing Rachel's attitude also hurt her there). I would just like for Kurt, who has always been shown as being very driven, be it school, work, performing, fashion, whatever, having some sort of career path forward.

I would love to know what the writers intent are with the characters. Short of Rachel saving Glee club, Sue continuing to meddle, Beiste doing a transgender story-line, Kurt/Blaine and Brittany/Santana getting married, and random hook-ups from out of left field it seems that the final season has no sense of purpose of how Ryan said "arts in education" influenced their futures at all. I so hoped that the final season would be better than the hook-ups, who's with who, silly charades, and just straight up horrible writing and for once might take their gift (I say gift because without the 2 year renewal in place I'm pretty sure season 5 would have been the last) this season and do something meaningful and some sense of urgency to conclude the show on a better note than what the speculated spoilers have revealed. But it feels to me that RIB is still going for a horrible shock and awe to get a headline story in some tabloid magazines or the introduction spot on ENews effect instead of ending with grace and class. I could be wrong but sadly I don't think I am too far off the mark.

Edited January 7, 2015 by Ann Mack

[tom87]

Amber and Kevin are both back for limited episodes according to foxofficial. But we already knew they wouldn't appear in all the episodes.

I know I never said differently in fact I even mentioned limited use.  But they are supposedly back as regulars unlike the others who will appear as guest.  

 

 

What I want to know is what is going with Kurt, besides getting married at the ripe old age of 19? 20? Will he and Blaine even be able to drink champagne at their wedding? In all seriousness did I miss some spoiler that had anything else to do with Kurt besides the Blaine stuff? Is he still in NYADA? He barely got in by the skin of his teeth (I mean he went through it!) and now they are just going to let him take a leave of absence? He's just chillin in Lima? They weren't that lenient with Rachel when she was in "Funny Girl" (nor should they have been). At least she was still in the city. Carmen was pretty clear about the type of dedication she expected. And if she wasn't willing to give Rachel too much slack when she was starring in the Broadway Musical, I can just imagine how she feels about one of her students, asking to take some time off to help coach his old high school Glee club. (Although I'm guessing Rachel's attitude also hurt her there). I would just like for Kurt, who has always been shown as being very driven, be it school, work, performing, fashion, whatever, having some sort of career path forward.

Spoilers say Kurt is getting credit for directing the glee  club.

 

Because  we all know directing  a glee club is a better method of learning then  having experienced teacher teach and hands on experience in acting classes or singing lessons.

Edited January 7, 2015 by tom87