Spoilers and Discussion

[camussie]

I actually don't think Finn was the worst treated character when it came to parents.  I think every kid lead but Kurt got short shrift on the whole parent thing because RM & team seemed to think the only parent who mattered in the whole dang show was Burt Hummel.  As leads (as I feel Finn and Rachel were) I feel like their parents should have played into stories more.  For example Rachel's parents should have been on the train at the end of season 3 and that conversation regarding what really happen to Finn's dad should have been between Finn and Carol, not Finn and Burt with Carol making a cameo.  

[caracas1914]

Well I guess this discussion sure solidifies exactly what was said some pages ago - everyone always thinks their favorite was the worse treated character. Can't we all agree that the writers have basically fucked up the writing for all of these characters at some point or another

 

 

I actually think relatively speaking, that one of my faves, Kurt , hasn't been thrown as badly under the bus as others as far as characterization.  Unfortunately, while they took away alot of his snark and bite, there are still remnants of his initial persona  from Season One.  The irony is that in S5 days his snark and bite was reserved usually  against his soulmate Blaine...hehehe...Even in Season 6 Kurt apparently  intitlaly ends the relationship because he's tired of the fighting.

 

Even in this whole fucked up Klaine saga, he's still a viable fairly independent character while poor  Blaine will probably end up a needy prop who's engame purpose  is marrying Kurt and mouthing that Kurt is the love of his life over and over and over.  So yea, I admit that my fave in this relationship has fared far better.

 

Artie has also remained relatively unchanged since Season 1, he's alway been a bit of a bluffing douche and that's still intact.

 

Of course there is  this last season for the writers to totally fuck up these characters...LOL.

Edited December 14, 2014 by caracas1914

[shantown]

Wishful thinking that Matt Rutherford is coming back as a love interest for Rachel.
(Completely unlikely, I know, but it's preferable to Sam.)

[tom87]

Well I guess this discussion sure solidifies exactly what was said some pages ago - everyone always thinks their favorite was the worse treated character. Can't we all agree that the writers have basically fucked up the writing for all of these characters at some point or another?

 

Goes back to the age old question is it worse to have these writers give you more plot or is it worse to be under the radar  with those writers?

 

So seeing your fav a lot vs seeing your fav potentially assassinated?

[Lady Calypso]

You know, I would be just as happy if Sam is used to open up Rachel for love and then they get a Jon Groff cameo in the finale where him and Rachel are meeting up, opening up the possibility of them getting together after the series ends. Because as much as Jesse has treated Rachel not that great, he is the only viable option and he might get the old Rachel back. Also I like Jesse and I know Jon is busy with his show and with Frozen and whatever else, but I'd be fine with a non speaking cameo from him, in a quick montage segment. But honestly, if they could give them one last duet, I would be even happier.

[jaytee1812]

Hell I'd welcome Brodie back if it meant someone on this show dating someone they didn't meet in high school.

Actually I'd really love a surprise appearance by Demi Lovato and Adam Lambert to break up the double wedding and have Santana and Kurt run away with them!

 

ETA : Sugar Motta is back for the wedding.

Sugar's there but not Quinn???

[Florinaldo]

I can believe the Rachel/Sam thing. They've been on the nose with Sam's ascension to become Finn, and now it's complete with Rachel. It's despicable.

I think it's sort of inevitable: the show has a finite number of characters to play with and since romantic relationships are part of its narrative meat-and-potatoes, they are running out of possible combinations. Unless they introduce new characters for that purpose, but there's also very few episodes left. Since they wrote Mercedes as pretty much closing the door on her romance with Sam, he is an available logical choice (especially in light of the meaningful glances he and Rachel were throwing at each other during the Billy Joel quintet last season)

 

Finn and CM have been gone for a while now; it seems an acceptable time for the characters and the writers to let go and move on.

[fakeempress]

(provided the spoilers are accurate) Rachel advised Mercedes to part ways with Sam, and now she's moving onto said Sam. Doesn't look very good to me, and if you say she already had a thing for him with these "meaningful glances", that's even worse because she told Mercedes afterwards there was nothing there. Are they bringing back the BIOTA Rachel who made a move on a guy despite her friend's feelings? 

 

The point about Sam's ascention to Finn isn't about Rachel, it's about making Sam more relevant than he is, hence the potential for throwing Rachel under the bus in her relationship with Mercedes. Sam becoming Finn was completely obvious in City of Angels. The romance with Rachel is just the crowning moment, with him getting Finn's girl. So Rachel won't be letting go and moving on from Finn if she moves onto the new Finn.

 

Since they wrote Mercedes as pretty much closing the door on her romance with Sam, he is an available logical choice

Not true, rewatch the scene.  

Edited December 15, 2014 by fakeempress

[Ann Mack]

I think it's sort of inevitable: the show has a finite number of characters to play with and since romantic relationships are part of its narrative meat-and-potatoes, they are running out of possible combinations. Unless they introduce new characters for that purpose, but there's also very few episodes left. Since they wrote Mercedes as pretty much closing the door on her romance with Sam, he is an available logical choice (especially in light of the meaningful glances he and Rachel were throwing at each other during the Billy Joel quintet last season)

 

Finn and CM have been gone for a while now; it seems an acceptable time for the characters and the writers to let go and move on.

 

But this is what I don't like. All the proclamations of love between Sam and Mercedes, Rachel saying "they're soulmates", being Mercedes friend who gives her advise to let him go. Yes, the writers may have willingly closed the door but they also left loop holes. I have no problem with Rachel moving on hell they hired 50 dozen new characters for this final season and yet they couldn't hire one to be a love interest for her. Her preparing to date again doesn't have to come at the emotional expense of her friend, or in the same location (choir room) were she declared her undying love for Finn.

 

To me this is rubbish and cheap writing along with pairing the 2 available white heterosexual couples left in Lima. They could have just as well written for Mercedes to change her mind about sex because the 6 month absence made her realize Sam was her forever. They could have provided them the same long distance relationship that they are affording Quinn and Puck.

 

This screams of a writer who wanted to go back to the disgusting glances they shared in season 5 before a majority of the watching fans voiced how disappointing, distasteful, and unwanted this pairing was wanted to be seen on their screen. They dodged it in interviews but that was the main reason. Now its the final season and they don't care about the fans, about Mercedes or Sam, just let Rachel once again selfishly have what she wants everyone else be damned.

 

I have NO DOUBT they will write this as the biggest EPIC LOVE STORY ever. They have to. I'm sure there will be many emotional scenes and tons of damn songs of those 2 singing together. 

 

I hate that they are stereotyping Mercedes as the strong black woman who doesn't need a man, and Rachel as the woman who can't function without a man. Either way the final season is shaping up to look like a gigantic lazily written fuck you to the majority of its fans!

[Ann Mack]

(provided the spoilers are accurate) Rachel advised Mercedes to part ways with Sam, and now she's moving onto said Sam. Doesn't look very good to me, and if you say she already had a thing for him with these "meaningful glances", that's even worse because she told Mercedes afterwards there was nothing there. Are they bringing back the BIOTA Rachel who made a move on a guy despite her friend's feelings? 

 

The point about Sam's ascention to Finn isn't about Rachel, it's about making Sam more relevant than he is, hence the potential for throwing Rachel under the bus about her relationship with Mercedes. Sam becoming Finn was completely obvious in City of Angels. The romance with Rachel is just the crowning moment, with him getting Finn's girl. So Rachel won't be letting go and moving on from Finn if she moves onto the new Finn.  

 

Not true, rewatch the scene.  

 

I can't with Rachel or the writers of this show. Yes they are doing a lot of this to make Sam more relevant and heaven forbid Rachel ever has to go without a man and maybe do something that isn't self absorbed. I agree some may find the whole Sam and Rachel "moving on together" as romantic but I find it quite disturbing. The relationship will start (if the spoilers are true) by hypnosis, she will feel something, he will tell her he still loves Mercedes. Apparently, that doesn't stop the writers from plunging forward to have her pursue him. Now some are saying by episode 10 they will be declaring their love. I understand people like Rachel I also understand that Chord fans want him to get more screen time and pairing Sam with Rachel will do that. But why does no one see what the consequences of their actions may have on Mercedes. I'm sure the writers will have Mercedes give them her blessing as bow out gracefully and mind her place. But can't Mercedes ever have it all or is that only reserved for Rachel.

[camussie]

Finn and CM have been gone for a while now; it seems an acceptable time for the characters and the writers to let go and move on.

 

 

Once again no issue with Rachel moving forward.  Just an issue with her moving forward with a character they brought on as Finn 2.0 way back in season 2, a concept they have doubled down on since Finn passed.  Going as far as to co-opt his memory and his relationship with Will to sell it in "City of Angels" and now it seems his relationship with Rachel (because yeah they will so be making googly eyes in that choir room) to try and sell that concept.  And I also go back to how will this work out?

1. Rachel decides to stay in Lima because she is in love with Sam i.e. basically the ending RM had planned for Finn/Rachel. And ending as a Finn/Rachel fan I hated for both characters and an ending I will hate for Rachel if they have her go that route
2. Sam decides to move to NY to be with Rachel.  That would be such an FU from RM and team to Finn and Finn/Rachel fans since that is the ending many wanted but weren't going to get because RM was going to trap Finn in that dang choir room
3. Sam & Rachel part ways knowing they aren't each other futures right now.  Hey I know.  They can replay the train station scene.  

Edited December 15, 2014 by camussie

[Myrna123]

Just an issue with her moving forward with a character they brought on as Finn 2.0 way back in season 2,

What's so awful about bringing on a character as Finn 2.0?  I mean, if RIB wish they had created one of their leads as a little more this or a little more that, why wouldn't they bring on a new character that had the characteristics they wanted?  And we all know people who go for a type of guy as much as for an individual--maybe Rachel's type is doofus dumb nice guy who can carry a tune.

 

I always got the impression that Blaine was Gay 2.0 - the gay character Murphy wished he had started the show with--if he'd thought of starting a tv program about show choirs with a gay character, that is.  As we all know, the casting director thought Chris Colfer was a unique enough performer (trying out for the role of Artie) that he sent him on to Murphy even though Colfer wasn't really right for Artie.  A (straight) Indian character got the boot to make way for Kurt Hummel.

[fakeempress]

 

To me this is rubbish and cheap writing along with pairing the 2 available white heterosexual couples left in Lima. They could have just as well written for Mercedes to change her mind about sex because the 6 month absence made her realize Sam was her forever. They could have provided them the same long distance relationship that they are affording Quinn and Puck.

Exactly because in the S.Five finale Mercedes envisioned the possibility of changing her mind and getting back together, the writers may have her now tell Sam, and even Rachel, that she met someone new, or isn't interested in Sam any more, for the reasons camussie outlined about Rachel's future with Sam. Sam will be in the clear to pursue new options before he starts dating Rachel for real. But why then date in secret, doesn't make sense, so we're in for the triangle of doom. Amber seems to be in quite a few episodes, so they're bringing Mercedes back just to serve the Sam and Rachel storyline. 

Edited December 15, 2014 by fakeempress

[camussie]

What's so awful about bringing on a character as Finn 2.0?  I mean, if RIB wish they had created one of their leads as a little more this or a little more that, why wouldn't they bring on a new character that had the characteristics they wanted?  And we all know people who go for a type of guy as much as for an individual--maybe Rachel's type is doofus dumb nice guy who can carry a tune.

 

 

Because when they did so they tore down Finn to build up Sam.  See Furt or the Quinn/Finn redux.  Two plot points that had been resolved (Finn had stood up for Kurt way back in "Theatricality" and had moved on from Quinn in season 1) yet were dredged up and lo and behold Sam got the better end of the writing.  I have always resented how Sam's introduction was in part at the expense of Finn's characterization.  Not to mention it came across like RM and team just didn't seem to get that Finn and what Cory brought to the character was not replaceable and that he was as much of a reason for the success of the show in season 1 as Rachel, Will, and Sue.   Not even hiring a blond version and trashing Finn to try and sell him because they wanted a blond Finn who was a  "little more this or a little more that"  erased that Finn was popular with the general audience and they didn't view him as replaceable no matter how much RM and team did.

 

Also Glee likes to pat itself on the back for honoring diversity yet they sure seem to think white male jocks are interchangeable to the point where one dies and the other can be slotted right into his place including co-opting the first's two most significant relationships to try and sell the second.  

 

I always got the impression that Blaine was Gay 2.0 - the gay character Murphy wished he had started the show with--if he'd thought of starting a tv program about show choirs with a gay character, that is.

 

 

And even as someone who can take or leave Kurt on a good day I find that annoying too.  Still they never tried to write Blaine as a straight up replacement for Kurt like they did with Sam regarding Finn since his first appearance on the show.  Instead, starting in season 4, they just gave Blaine a lot more to do than Kurt.  

Edited December 16, 2014 by camussie

[Ann Mack]

Exactly because in the S.Five finale Mercedes envisioned the possibility of changing her mind and getting back together, the writers may have her now tell Sam, and even Rachel, that she met someone new, or isn't interested in Sam any more, for the reasons camussie outlined about their future. Sam will be in the clear to pursue new options before he starts dating Rachel for real. But why then date in secret, doesn't make sense, so we're in for the triangle of doom. Amber seems to be in quite a few episodes, so they're bringing Mercedes back just to serve the Sam and Rachel storyline. 

 

Yeah they are up to filming episodes 9 and 10 and yet there is no information spoiled directly for Artie or Mercedes. I love how some of Chord's fans were screaming why does all of Sam's story lines have to involve a girl when said girl was Mercedes now that the possible girl is Rachel they are quiet as church mice. So Sam will undoubtedly get the message that nothing is left for him and Mercedes cause heaven forbid Rachel repeat another offense of going after a friends love interest while saying the hell with that person's feelings. I'm not saying that Mercedes happiness has to be tied to Sam but I am saying the show and the writers gave a BIG indication that they were very happy together in S5 with the talking of feeling like they were meant for each other and discussion of a future with the house, the yard, kids and even the dog. So lets just blow that all the hell up because heaven forbid Rachel took this time to correct her broken career and didn't use it to break the heart of her friend.

 

This show is so heavily wrapped around giving Rachel everything that NO ONE else who isn't Blaine stands a chance. So after episode 8 I'm sure there will probably be no more Santana and Brittany, Klaine will be married. I'm doubtful if Mercedes or Artie will be prominently featured in episodes 10-13 because hey we have to get all the loving we can in for Rachel and Sam and build for that final anti-climatic moment when Rachel will once again rise like a Phoenix! 

[fakeempress]

 

I always got the impression that Blaine was Gay 2.0 - the gay character Murphy wished he had started the show with--if he'd thought of starting a tv program about show choirs with a gay character, that is.  As we all know, the casting director thought Chris Colfer was a unique enough performer (trying out for the role of Artie) that he sent him on to Murphy even though Colfer wasn't really right for Artie.  A (straight) Indian character got the boot to make way for Kurt Hummel.

The analogy with Sam=Finn doesn't work. Blaine is in many ways the antithesis of Kurt. 

 

 

This show is so heavily wrapped around giving Rachel everything that NO ONE else who isn't Blaine stands a chance. So after episode 8 I'm sure there will probably be no more Santana and Brittany, Klaine will be married. I'm doubtful if Mercedes or Artie will be prominently featured in episodes 10-13 because hey we have to get all the loving we can in for Rachel and Sam and build for that final anti-climatic moment when Rachel will once again rise like a Phoenix!

As Mercedes seems to me to serve Sam/Rachel, Santana and Brittany seem to have been brought back to be married just to propel the Klaine marriage storyline. I doubt we would have the Brittana nuptuals otherwise.  

Edited December 15, 2014 by fakeempress

[Ann Mack]

The analogy with Sam=Finn doesn't work. Blaine is in many ways the antithesis of Kurt. 

 

As Mercedes seems to me to serve Sam/Rachel, Santana and Brittany seem to have been brought back to be married just to propel the Klaine marriage storyline. I doubt we would have the Brittana nuptuals otherwise.  

 Yeah if I'm wrong I'll be the first to admit but right now from what has spoiled and might actually be true, the Glee writers for this final season doesn't even care about being predictable or stupid!

[Ann Mack]

If you closely examine the supposed story line that might be happening for Sam and Rachel is resembles a whole hell of a lot the same story line they used for Sam and Brittany. Let's see:

 

- Sam is interested in Brittany but she is still in love with Santana.

* Rachel has feelings for Sam but he is still in love with Mercedes.

 

- Sam sings "Something Stupid" with Brittany because he might be in love.

* Sam and Rachel might sing "Accidentally In Love" because she or both might be feeling something.

 

- Santana decides its best if she lets Brittany go and there is nothing left in Lima for her and leaves for NY.

* I won't be surprised if Mercedes says her final goodbye to Sam and returns to NY or LA because nothing is left for her in Ohio. (I know technically they are not together but this is again contributed to the writers so they can make the available white heterosexuals left in Lima the epic love story of all the seasons combined)

 

- There was sporadic moments of Santana in NY.

* Possibly none of Mercedes for the remaining 3 episodes (I actually don't want her around them if this does happen any way)

 

- Brittany tells Sam that they deserve to be happy or something to that effect.

* Sam and Rachel will finally feel that connection and say hey we deserve happiness too.

 

- Brittany and Sam face a dramatic event that proves their "true love". (Episode "Shooting Star") 

* Episode limitations will probably prevent some dramatic event happening for Sam and Rachel to have an experience which will solidify that yes this is "true love" too!

 

The writers don't even care enough to come of with an original story line if this does happen. Oh Glee continue to shit on your few fans, pat yourselves on the back and say now that was some good story telling. Oh the bullshit is high and deep!

Edited December 15, 2014 by Ann Mack

[caracas1914]

What's so awful about bringing on a character as Finn 2.0?

 

 

The problem is that Cory Monteith was a very good actor who invested the character with some interesting touches, the humanity of Finn shined through despite some of the WTF writing.  Finn was a flawed, insecure kid who meant well and fumbled and got up and fumbled again but Cory made him seem genuine.  Cory Monteith wasn't much younger than Mark Salling, but even physically he conveyed a teenager much better.  (I love Mark despite his incongruity physically).  The show's arc of him as a leader was there since the Pilot and followed through for most of the chracter's journey on Glee.

 

Chord Overstreet is a  limited actor.  Sam, is so one dimensional he's boring.  (That is why BLAM is such a train wreck, two characters with absolutely zero edge/nuance/conflict/tension between them.) The  role of Sam hasn't been invested much by the writers to give him any  actual nuances or shadings, other than to hook him up with yet another girl.  So you combine poor writing with a mediocre actor is why now trying to shoe horn him into a Finn 2.0 just rings false, or at least doesn't bear any interest for me.  Sam has been portrayed so haphazardly other than  dumb as dirt and lacking any genuine ambition/drive that making him a "leader" at this late date is shoe horning at it's worst.

 

It's telling that with Hummelberry back in LIma, they , and not Sam were made the co directors of New Directions.    Whatever those characters other traits, they don't lack for drive or ambition.   Yet the last enabled white straight boy left standing may end up the "leader" by default.  Hell, Artie through the years has shown more backbone and drive.

Edited December 15, 2014 by caracas1914

[camussie]

Cory was actually a few months older than Mark as he was born in May 1982 and Mark in August.  As for Sam i would say it isn't just now they tried to make him Finn 2.0.  They also tried back in season 2.  Backed off towards the end of season 2 and then started making a second run at it last season and apparently this season - something many people immediately predicted would happen when discussing how Glee would go forward after Cory's passing.  And why did many predict it would happen?  Because RM and team are just that lazy.  

Edited December 15, 2014 by camussie

[caracas1914]

Yes, they tried a little of Finn 2.0 for Sam back in Season 2 but it didn't stick, and that was the time  that they initially waived  signing him on for Season 3 as a Regular  so that tells you something. 

[Advance35]

What's so awful about bringing on a character as Finn 2.0?  I mean, if RIB wish they had created one of their leads as a little more this or a little more that, why wouldn't they bring on a new character that had the characteristics they wanted?  And we all know people who go for a type of guy as much as for an individual--maybe Rachel's type is doofus dumb nice guy who can carry a tune.

I always got the impression that Blaine was Gay 2.0 - the gay character Murphy wished he had started the show with--if he'd thought of starting a tv program about show choirs with a gay character, that is.  As we all know, the casting director thought Chris Colfer was a unique enough performer (trying out for the role of Artie) that he sent him on to Murphy even though Colfer wasn't really right for Artie.  A (straight) Indian character got the boot to make way for Kurt Hummel.

 

 

Can I say I agree completely.   I had know idea Sam/Mercedes or Finn/Rachel were such deep, poignant, love stories.  lol.    I thought Finn Hudson was unremarkable in just about every way accept for his limited intellectual capacity.    Very few characters have ever been conceived and written as so idiotic.   He was an idiot and Sam is one as well (though Finn will always be dumber for buying the baby lie in my eyes).

 

I'm hard pressed to think of ONE character who hasn't been shortchanged for another character at one point or another.   Rachel's near worship of Quinn (for what?), Rachel's "love" for Finn (I still don't get what she loved about him, he was VERY rarely good to her), reintroducing the ancient Season 1 Defying Gravity Diva Off (that triumph over Kurt gave Rachel confidence, we met her overflowing with performance confidence and Kurt was just an insect in her universe) and doubtless the same has been done to other characters.

 

I honestly never paid much attention to Mercedes when it wasn't Rachel related so I was perfectly happy to ignore her when they didn't share a scene.   And I still maintain Mercedes and Sam aren't together because of Mercedes and Sam, this belief or outlook that RACHEL is why they decided to go their separate ways for (what they thought) would be a short amount of time is laughable.   I've never thought highly of Mercedes but I find it hard to believe she's a mouse to Rachel's Pied Piper.   People grow apart, it happens.   It's what I was hoping would happen to Finn and Rachel.    

 

I just find Sam more likeable.  More appealing as it were.   He's laid back and comfortable in his own skin for the most part and he takes Rachel in stride in the few interactions they've had.   I say bring them on.   They got quite a bit of love on twitter when that scene of them dancing to "Just The Way You Are" aired last year.   

[Ann Mack]

Can I say I agree completely.   I had know idea Sam/Mercedes or Finn/Rachel were such deep, poignant, love stories.  lol.    I thought Finn Hudson was unremarkable in just about every way accept for his limited intellectual capacity.    Very few characters have ever been conceived and written as so idiotic.   He was an idiot and Sam is one as well (though Finn will always be dumber for buying the baby lie in my eyes).

 

I'm hard pressed to think of ONE character who hasn't been shortchanged for another character at one point or another.   Rachel's near worship of Quinn (for what?), Rachel's "love" for Finn (I still don't get what she loved about him, he was VERY rarely good to her), reintroducing the ancient Season 1 Defying Gravity Diva Off (that triumph over Kurt gave Rachel confidence, we met her overflowing with performance confidence and Kurt was just an insect in her universe) and doubtless the same has been done to other characters.

 

I honestly never paid much attention to Mercedes when it wasn't Rachel related so I was perfectly happy to ignore her when they didn't share a scene.   And I still maintain Mercedes and Sam aren't together because of Mercedes and Sam, this belief or outlook that RACHEL is why they decided to go their separate ways for (what they thought) would be a short amount of time is laughable.   I've never thought highly of Mercedes but I find it hard to believe she's a mouse to Rachel's Pied Piper.   People grow apart, it happens.   It's what I was hoping would happen to Finn and Rachel.    

 

I just find Sam more likeable.  More appealing as it were.   He's laid back and comfortable in his own skin for the most part and he takes Rachel in stride in the few interactions they've had.   I say bring them on.   They got quite a bit of love on twitter when that scene of them dancing to "Just The Way You Are" aired last year.   

 

Well I did pay attention to her character. Is it really necessary to just totally disregard a character with such vile contempt simply because "you" never paid any attention to them. I think what has been said is Rachel along with 2 of Mercedes' other friends advised her to let him go while she was touring. Only difference being neither of those other 2 "friends" are now in pursuit of him. As much love as you say they got for that twirling around dancing they did early in S5, they also got much criticism and the whole idea of them were scrapped. Sam and Mercedes also got much love and media attention but I guess also since that didn't involve Rachel you didn't pay any attention. Its not so much that Sam is more receptive to Rachel than any one else it may just be that the show just doesn't give a damn any more so putting them together for these final 13 episodes will appease Sam fans apparently Rachel fans too and prevent her from oh god heaven forbid end the series without a love interest running in behind her to continuously tell her how special she is. Some fans have no regard for whomever gets pushed to the side so Rachel finishes with someone. I guess the end will justify the means that the the relationship was started not voluntarily by Sam but through hypnosis from Sue. 

Edited December 16, 2014 by Ann Mack

[Advance35]

Ya, I can't say I noticed the note-worthy media attention for the Sam/Mercedes coupling.   However did I miss it.

 

And their are different factions to everything Glee does.  I'm not shocked.   Some people enjoyed the Sam/Rachel thing some felt quite the opposite.  And?   I didn't state either was a universal truth.

 

Since it would be ok for Rachel to end the series alone, Why can't Mercedes?   I totally admit Rachel is my preferred character now, I've never cared or been interested in Mercedes, how she ends is inconsequential in my eyes.   Seems to be No different from your view/outlook with regards to Ms. Berry.

[camussie]

While I wouldn't go as far as to say Mercedes was a mouse to Rachel's pied piper there is a history of the writers taking things away from Mercedes and giving them to Rachel

• Season 1 - the sectionals solo.  Mercedes was supposed to have it but since the set list was leaked Rachel got it
• Season 2 - the sing-off where Jesse called Mercedes lazy in order to throw the competition to Rachel (still the reason I loathe him)
• Season 3 - Maria in West Side story

 

It isn't Rachel's fault but it isn't a pretty pattern especially when you throw in that the other two women of color, Tina and Santana, were also called lazy in comparison to Rachel.  

 

As far as this Sam thing I am sure in the end Mercedes will bless their unholy whatever.  Still if they thought they were going to revisit the whole Sam/Rachel thing this year they were dumb to focus so much time on Sam/Mercedes last year.  Not only will it continue an annoying pattern in regards to Mercedes being treated as a second class citizen to Rachel but it makes it hard to believe whatever feelings Sam may have for Rachel considering how he has been madly in love with almost every girl in glee.

Edited December 16, 2014 by camussie

[Hana Chan]

Since it would be ok for Rachel to end the series alone, Why can't Mercedes?

 

Personally, I find it beyond tiresome that every other character is expected to fall on their swords and be called upon to sacrifice whatever they've gained or won in order for the Special Snowflake to succeed. Not that Sam is any kind of real prize, but they spent a lot of last season trying to show that he and Mercedes were more than a little serious about their relationship. Now granted, this is the same guy who was ready to marry Brittany when he thought that the world was going to end and then professed true love to Mercedes, but to suddenly have him rewarded to Rachel because heavens forbid Rachel end up with not having all the prizes really rubs me the wrong way.

 

And it does make Rachel look (again) like the worst friend in the universe because she can't ever keep the feelings of those that she professes to care about in mind when it comes to going after what she wants at a given moment. Frankly, I cannot see why Rachel, the girl who is the living embodiment of drive and ambition would be at all interested in the dim bulb that they've turned Sam into. That the girl who was willing to steamroll over her nearest and dearest would fall for the slacker who was content to be couch surfing at Kurt's place for months just really shows how they are scrapping the bottom of the barrel to try to come up with some reason to keep Sam in the show.

[caracas1914]

I just don't understand why in the 21th century a show which is no longer dependent upon ratings or even mass audience acceptance at this point ( Glee is relegated to the death spot of Friday nights and burned off in 11 weeks), they can't give the characters some individual development and inner happiness without pairing them off yet again in musical chairs. It's bad enough that Quick, Brittanna and Klaine are all hooked up, with a nasty split up for at least two of those couples.

Yes, most TV shows are insular but the idea that in High School you find your "soulmate" is just so bizarre.

As far as any possible Rachel/Sam pairing, I doubt even Glee can pull off it's sone sort of genuine endgame. At most they'll imply they fucked each other's brains out before Rachel regains her senses and heads on back to NY and Broadway. Probably its to signal that Rachel is open to love again. They might as well just state that offscreen Jesse St. James is waiting there for her. As to the Samchel, It's "filler" relationship to give Sam a SL this last year.

[camussie]

Or they will try and write them as endgame by having Rachel stay in Lima or by having Sam join her in NY (the ending that would tick me off most of all).  But then again maybe you are right and, as a I said above, we can have a train station redux scene.  

 

On a different subject I wonder if Kurt and Blaine even discuss something as basic as where they will live before they decide to jump into marriage.  If they don't then they are both idiots.  For all each other knows they want to settle in different places (Blaine Lima and Kurt in NY).  This would especially trash Kurt's characterization as it would seem he might be willing to give up NY and NYADA completely to be with Blaine.  

Edited December 16, 2014 by camussie

[Ann Mack]

Ya, I can't say I noticed the note-worthy media attention for the Sam/Mercedes coupling.   However did I miss it.

 

And their are different factions to everything Glee does.  I'm not shocked.   Some people enjoyed the Sam/Rachel thing some felt quite the opposite.  And?   I didn't state either was a universal truth.

 

Since it would be ok for Rachel to end the series alone, Why can't Mercedes?   I totally admit Rachel is my preferred character now, I've never cared or been interested in Mercedes, how she ends is inconsequential in my eyes.   Seems to be No different from your view/outlook with regards to Ms. Berry.

 

I have a preference to Mercedes and yes, Mercedes could end alone and still be successful as she made it out of Lima. However Glee has made a point of making all the WOC on this show secondary to Rachel or striving for her approval. Tina didn't get a solo until she bumped her head and imagined herself as Rachel, Santana was referred to as lazy and out to get Rachel's job even though it was Rachel being unreasonable about her being her understudy for Funny Girl.  The writer's couldn't bear to have Rachel be wrong because someone could do just as well as her so of course it became a vindictive reason for Santana. Oh yes and Mercedes let just paint her as the stereotypical strong black woman who doesn't need a man, while Rachel just can't function without one praising her. So we will continue to disagree about the reasons as to why one should or could end the series alone or both. I still think it's in incredibly poor taste of the writers to spend so much time building a beautiful relationship between Sam and Mercedes in S5 to destroy it in the next season. People do grow up and grow apart but usually their friend isn't there saying your feelings be damned like Rachel. BTW Rachel did the same thing to Kurt when she went after Blaine before he realized he was 100% gay Rachel didn't give a damn about Kurt feelings she only as always treats her friends as accessories to her final goal!

[ComfySweater]

I was never a fan of Sam and anybody so I find it hard to mourn the demise of his relationship with Mercedes so long as she get some action elsewhere. Making her a single stereotype is problematic for the reasons others listed, but I can't cry over her not being stuck with Sam's abs and lack of other interesting features. I'd much rather see Rachel be the one to decide she doesn't need a man to be happy. That would be progress that could leave her in a place where her future relationships have some hope of working. As it is, she comes off as really desperate the way she's so willing to toss her supposed friends under the bus to go after their love interests.

[truthaboutluv]

For all each other knows they want to settle in different places (Blaine Lima and Kurt in NY).

 

 

I never got the impression Blaine wanted to settle in Lima. Kurt and Blaine agreeing to be together in New York was established back in Season 2, only a few months after they started dating when Kurt told Rachel Blaine was on board with moving to NY after graduation. Now granted this is Glee we're talking about, the show of no consistency but I'd actually find it less believable if they try to sell some NY vs. Lima thing with them versus their just heading back to NY. Of course not that I'd put it past the writers and it'd be the perfect way to facilitate breakup #3, not to mention thrusting another Finchel type storyline on them as they've been doing since the former was no longer a possibility.

[camussie]

True but that is before Blaine crashed and burned at NYADA.  He may have changes his mind about NY.  It should at least warrant a discussion before they get married.  

Edited December 16, 2014 by camussie

[truthaboutluv]

True but that is before Blaine crashed and burned at NYADA.  He may have changes his mind about NY.  It should at least warrant a discussion before they get married.

 

 

A lot of things probably warranted a discussion before Kurt and Blaine got married. Hell a "we'd be the biggest idiots to even think of getting married right now and worse to each other, when we can't even stand living together for two minutes" probably should have been said but there they are, apparently getting married so it is what it is. My guess is Blaine will likely magically get back in NYADA or they won't even mention it and they'll just be in NY at the end.

 

Or they might decide to stick them in Lima but I don't think it'd necessarily be about Blaine not wanting to leave but more some half-assed shit that Kurt decides that being home in Lima with the man he loves is all he needs to be happy. I cringe just typing this but at this point, I put NOTHING and I do mean NOTHING past these people. Hell, maybe that Kurt goes to Russia rumor might turn out to be true after all and the writers send him and Blaine there to fight for LGBT rights. And Ryan Murphy can give a self-serving bullshit interview about how progressive the show was and how they represented for the "underdogs..." 

Edited December 16, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[Advance35]

Again I didn't see how the writers spent so much time building a "beautiful" story between Sam/Mercedes.   Just didn't see it, didn't feel it, some did.   Moving the characters on separately will bother some and make others happy, like everything else in Glee.

 

I'd say Rachel finally not kowtowing to friends is progress.   She always would eventually fold due to Finn's disapproval, Kurt's Lectures or some such nonsense.   I think being strong is getting what you want, even if your cheering section is yourself alone.   I want Rachel to pursue what she wants and finally not cave.   If Mercedes isn't happy, that's her problem.    Anytime they deal with each other it's a coin toss as to whether they'll be friend or foes.   

 

And I don't think anyone on this show has EVER strived for Rachel's approval, EVER.   I honestly can't think of one instance.   Neither Santana or Mercedes have EVER had a problem standing up to Rachel or meeting her eyeball to eyeball.   And Santana actually won in her feud with Rachel in Special Education.

 

I think being so DESPERATE for friends that you'd sacrifice what could possibly make YOU happy is pathetic and that to me would prove Rachel is a lost cause.   I'm hoping the writers realize that.     

 

I was on Rachel's side during the whole Funny Girl thing so I'm not even going to go into that.

 

But again for me, since the beginning, when the show was good, Rachel had to choose between ambition or not being alone, I'd like to see her be ambitious and in a relationship.    Again I found loneliness to be a huge part of her character.   I'd like to see that part resolved before the final credits roll.

 

And Yes I recall Rachel pursuing Blaine, he and Kurt weren't together at the time.   One of the few ACTUAL funny episodes in Season 2.

 

Hoping Rachel will entertain me just as much during the upcoming mini season.   Kurt was chosen in the end anyway.   And they'll live happily ever after, isn't it sweet.

[fakeempress]

 

 

I'd say Rachel finally not kowtowing to friends is progress.   She always would eventually fold due to Finn's disapproval, Kurt's Lectures or some such nonsense.   I think being strong is getting what you want, even if your cheering section is yourself alone.   I want Rachel to pursue what she wants and finally not cave.   If Mercedes isn't happy, that's her problem.    Anytime they deal with each other it's a coin toss as to whether they'll be friend or foes.  

And I don't think anyone on this show has EVER strived for Rachel's approval, EVER.   I honestly can't think of one instance.   Neither Santana or Mercedes have EVER had a problem standing up to Rachel or meeting her eyeball to eyeball.   And Santana actually won in her feud with Rachel in Special Education.

I think being so DESPERATE for friends that you'd sacrifice what could possibly make YOU happy is pathetic and that to me would prove Rachel is a lost cause.   I'm hoping the writers realize that.    

I was on Rachel's side during the whole Funny Girl thing so I'm not even going to go into that.

But again for me, since the beginning, when the show was good, Rachel had to choose between ambition or not being alone, I'd like to see her be ambitious and in a relationship.    Again I found loneliness to be a huge part of her character.   I'd like to see that part resolved before the final credits roll.

And Yes I recall Rachel pursuing Blaine, he and Kurt weren't together at the time.   One of the few ACTUAL funny episodes in Season 2.

Hoping Rachel will entertain me just as much during the upcoming mini season.   Kurt was chosen in the end anyway.   And they'll live happily ever after, isn't it sweet.

Rachel knew very well how Kurt felt about Blaine and, moreover, that he intended to pursue him. But from all you're saying, it sounds like Rachel should steamroll without any scruples over her friends any time she fancies some relationship of theirs, be it past, present or expiry date undefined. No wonder Rachel didn't actually form any steady female friendships (after this if I were Mercedes, I would leave Rachel and Sam to themselves, and go be fabulous in the wide world),  apart from her bizarre kowtowing to Quinn.  

[caracas1914]

I think being so DESPERATE for friends that you'd sacrifice what could possibly make YOU happy is pathetic and that to me would prove Rachel is a lost cause. I'm hoping the writers realize that.

Except Rachel has never had to do that. As far as I know , she never willingly gave up a solo or a slot to someone else voluntarily and had that sacrifice stick. Sure when she choked in Season 3 she had the silly notion to marry Finn. And yes, the closest was being willing to stay behind in LIma after Graduation but of course by that episode end everyone was wishing her goodbye at the train station as the spotlight fell back on her. Lead soloist at Nationals, Prom Queen, Winter Winner at NYADA, Funny Girl triuimph, etc, etc. where are all these sacrifices Rachel does"?

I find it bizarre talk about how Rachel sacrifices herself for others and their interests. I mean, in the end the person who everyone caters to, fawns over and gushes about being a star is Rachel Berry. Even for the Broadway Funny Girl premiere, every other character literally tripped over themselves (including Santana) to make sure Rachel was "ready" for her debut.

It doesn't necessarily bother me, as she is the lead character, (and Lea is damn good actress and singer) but I'm amused how much some perceive Rachel is dumped on when ultimately usually she is the center of attention and wins all the prizes in the SL's. .

Edited December 16, 2014 by caracas1914

[Advance35]

Again perception is everything.   The dislike and resentment for Rachel is very clear on THIS board and that's fine but that's not how I see it.   In "Special Education" Santana proved one can be nasty and come out on top in Glee, I would assume that was very much enjoyed in these parts though.

 

I can't shed any tears over Rachel's pursuit of Blaine in Season 2 since Kurt and Blaine weren't together........do people just yell out "CLAIMED" and that mean's off limits?  How very walking dead.

 

And I'm not getting into the whole solo nonsense.  I can't read about that old chestnut without rolling my eyes, So I won't go there.   What i mean't was that Rachel is the one to eat crow in every relationship.   Catering to Finn though he should have told her about his time with Santana, once he got together with Rachel, if nothing else to prevent Rachel from being blindsided by the "Lady" herself.  Instead of allowing Rachel to move on she is relegated  to pining for him, nevermind  that she had reason and cause to be just as angry as he was.

 

The disaster of a make over in Season 1 with Kurt and after Kurt rightfully told her "What made you think that" in reference to her thought that they were friends, yet she's the one that caves first waving at him in the hallway like a marshmallow.   Running for Class President, than bowing out in some new age nightmare of supposed friendship.  The endless worshipping at the altar of Quinn Fabray.

 

And again everything is perception.   Mercedes has a booming music career (to the point where she can demand who her back up singers are), a hot MAN in waiting and travels to her hearts apparent content.   Kurt, son of the esteemed SENATOR Burt, Current NYADA student who cleaned Rachel's clock in the NYADA Diva Off (Can't have Dem uppity Wom folk being confident and enjoying their success) Ex-VOGUE employee, who's charm (when performing) was enough to win over a High Society Dame played by Shirley McClane seems to be doing fine.   Santana, wants to go to college, than wants to move to NY, then lands a commercial, wows the director into casting her as an understudy for Funny Girl, only gave it up because it wasn't something she was passionate about (Only after she got sneer at Rachel's watery display in the ladies room) but now is a PR Guru second only to Olivia Pope.   Yea, I'm thinking Rachel isn't that ahead of the race anymore.  

 

Now where she'll end up......I have my theories but does anyone think any of these characters won't end happy (whether their fans will be happy with that end is up in the air).    Quite a few people here don't like Rachel and would like to see her have a unhappy ending.....that's fine, believe me, I share the same hopes for characters I loathe, again all depends on your perception.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Advance35

[Hana Chan]

Advance35 - there is a huge difference between "kowtowing" to her friends (as you described it) and just being a basically somewhat decent human being that shows her friends a bare minimal amount of consideration for their feelings. This is something that Rachel has never been able to grasp, not since the pilot. If she wants something, then the feelings of others be damned until someone else gets sick of her behavior and shames her into backing off a little bit.

 

I'm actually very tired that in five years, Rachel still has to struggle to be a halfway decent friend to those who have bent over backwards for her time and time again. There is not a single person that she didn't turn around and stab in the back who hadn't gone out of their way to give her support that she acts as if its her due. Sure, she can go through life as an island and do whatever she wanted regardless of the feelings of others. But that would mean giving up on anyone giving a shit that she's now stuck in Lima due to her own stupidity and selfishness and wanting to lift a finger to give her the help that she desperately needs and in no way deserves. I don't hate Rachel, but I am sick to death of the special treatment she has come to expect because she's talented and oh so special and how can anyone stand by and let her actually deal with failure. After how she behaved last season, I would love to see her left to stew in her own misery but at least a little while (before one of those friends that you disparage so much comes to her eventual rescue) so that maybe she'll finally appreciate just how generous the world has been towards her and how unappreciative she has been.

The girl who told Kurt "Who cares about you, buddy?" certainly doesn't deserve any more consideration than that.

[Advance35]

Advance35 - there is a huge difference between "kowtowing" to her friends (as you described it) and just being a basically somewhat decent human being that shows her friends a bare minimal amount of consideration for their feelings. This is something that Rachel has never been able to grasp, not since the pilot. If she wants something, then the feelings of others be damned until someone else gets sick of her behavior and shames her into backing off a little bit.

 

One person's potatoe......  What you think is minimum decency,  I see as being a doormat.   I won't regurgitate my examples as I think they hold up.   And sacrificing what you want just so some people will remain your "friend" seem's more co-dependent than anything admirable in my eyes.   But oh no, Rachel doesn't get to do that.   And Rachel is far from the only backstabber in the "family" that is ND.  

 

And Rachel should think she's special, a person should always be their prime supporter.  It's why even though I didn't like her (at the time) in Season 1, I was on her side in the Defying Gravity Diva-Off.  The entire club was rooting for Kurt and rooting to see her lose and she still got up their and sang and did her best, content to be her own biggest fan.  I found that (and still do) very admirable.    The thought that she should fold her hands together and slowly raise her hand and simper out "May I have a turn" has never appealed to me.   Her letting others "shame" her into stopping her pursuits is a weakness, one that the writers should let her overcome.  

 

Happiness doesn't just grow from love and water, you've got to go after it.   I don't need to see a character say grace and eat all her vegetables.  Let her be willing to step on a few throats to win and not dissolve and look despondent.   But this is leading into a whole other area of the character that I'm dissatisfied with and not inclined to discuss.

 

Back to my point.  I'm hoping Sam and Rachel happen (if Jesse St. James isn't available) and I still maintain that she doesn't owe Mercedes to the point where she should surrender a pursuit of potential happiness.   If she thinks there is a little smoke with Sam, she SHOULD see if she can make a fire.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Advance35

[caracas1914]

I like Rachel and her drive/ambition has always been one of her best traits to me. Broadway success? Check. Move back to New York? Check. Get back to performing as her passion? Check. Bang a slew of NY men? Check. That will stave off "loneliness" for a 19/20 year old.

Saddled with the IQ of a tree trunk, insipidly vain lump of a boy who would hump a rock if it smiled his way Sam Evans, Dear God no.

Once she's back in NY Rachel can work for that Tony again as she dates men who have more brain power than trying to figure out if all blacks people know each other. Or will marry the equally mentally challenged Brittany because the world is coming to an end. I suppose he could woo Rachel by throwing a trail of cereal on the floor, it worked once before, and hey, love is love.

Run, Rachel, run.

Edited December 16, 2014 by caracas1914

[Myrna123]

Happiness doesn't just grow from love and water, you've got to go after it.

And what better way to grab some of that happy than insist that the people you know (not friends, certainly, because the only way one can have friends is to be a simpering and pathetic doormat) bow to you as the pinnacle talent, eschew even the most minimum of decency as defined by society so as to avoid the risk of being taken advantage of and take absolutely everything you want when you want it regardless of the repercussions that may have on the people around you (again, not friends).  A recipe for happiness if ever I've seen one.

 

Why WOULDN'T Sam be falling all over himself to land a prize like this Rachel?  Think of all the glorious ways she can use and abuse him to take-take-take whatever she wants so that she and she alone can be happy. The whole storyline pretty much writes itself, really. 

[jaytee1812]

Saddled with the IQ of a tree trunk, insipidly vain lump of a boy who would hump a rock if it smiled his way Sam Evans, Dear God no.

Best description of Sam. Ever.

[fakeempress]

 

Saddled with the IQ of a tree trunk, insipidly vain lump of a boy who would hump a rock if it smiled his way Sam Evans, Dear God no.

Sadly, I don't see RIB missing out on pitting two accomplished talented ambitious women like Rachel and Mercedes against each other over the extremely dubious prize of Sam. Let's have the ladies duke it out over a mediocre bland guy; god forbid if the show should keep them as friends who respect one another and don't need to step on each other's throat to "win their man". 

 

And what better way to grab some of that happy than insist that the people you know (not friends, certainly, because the only way one can have friends is to be a simpering and pathetic doormat) bow to you as the pinnacle talent, eschew even the most minimum of decency as defined by society so as to avoid the risk of being taken advantage of and take absolutely everything you want when you want it regardless of the repercussions that may have on the people around you (again, not friends).  A recipe for happiness if ever I've seen one. A recipe for happiness if ever I've seen one.

Let's call it a recipe for utter loneliness - which is not what the character of Rachel wants, as far back as S. One.

Edited December 16, 2014 by fakeempress

[Advance35]

A recipe for happiness if ever I've seen one.

 

LOL. You might be surprised.

 

So you think the road to happiness for a character like Rachel is standing aside because someone else might not be happy?  Make sure EVERYONE always gets at least one solo and THAN you can try to get another.   You find Sam appealing on a physical level whether you do in any other way is not to be explored because he and Mercedes had an on/off rinse recylce repeat thing going for a while.

 

If you think character evolution for Rachel would be sitting in a corner, quietly contemplating how she can be happy ONLY IF someone else doesn't mind, I don't expect to change your mind.   Not how I see it.   Rachel sniveling "Mothey May I" before pursuing things just doesn't appeal to me.

[camussie]

Yeah my take on Rachel was that, because of her talent, it was always a given that she would succeed professionally.  With the exception of a few minor setbacks (losing to Kurt in the sing-off and her tonsillitis to name a couple) and one major one (her choke) she never really doubted that.  What she did doubt was if she would ever be apart of something special like a group of friends who loved and supported each other.  That is why "being apart of something special makes you special" was such a good summation of her journey.  On the surface she was talking about a successful glee club but on a deeper level she was talking about finding a place and a group of people that she could call home.

 

We actually saw the culmination of that journey with "Opening Night."  Of course she succeeded in "Funny Girl" but the real focus of that episode was how she was a part of a group of friends who loved and supported each other.  That was made very clear with three scenes

• Rachel choosing to forego the cast party where she surely would have received a ton of accolades to go dancing with her friends.  Now in the "real world" that would have been seen as incredibly unprofessional but in Glee her producer didn't care and it was obvious to me we were supposed to see it as a real ahh moment where Rachel was celebrating being a part of something special - that group of friends (and it should be noted she received the accolades anyway at the bar as she was the focus of that party)
• Rachel telling Sue off and basically saying I feel sorry for you that you don't have a group of friends like this.  This is why I and everyone here is special and you are not - because we love and care about each other 
• Rachel and her friends reading her reviews together but when Will called her wanting to talk about the baby

 

Then  the episode ended with both Rachel and Will saying they were completely happy.  And why were they completely happy?  Because the journeys set up for each in the pilot was fulfilled.  Will had the family he wanted and Rachel not only achieved the professional dream she always knew she would get but she was a part of something special  - this group of people who celebrated each other's successes and who were there to support each other when they needed them.  That meant she was no longer alone. 

 

Too bad that episode happened 15 episodes before the series finale because it actually did a good job of wrapping up the stories set up in the pilot for the two living leads.  

 

As far as Rachel/Mercedes I don't think she shouldn't date Sam if there is an attraction there but I think she should at least talk to Mercedes about it.  That is what friends should do.  That isn't saying mother may I.  That is simply being a considerate friend.  

Edited December 16, 2014 by camussie

[fakeempress]

As far as Rachel/Mercedes I don't think she shouldn't date Sam if there is an attraction there but I think she should at least talk to Mercedes about it.  That is what friends should do.  That isn't saying mother may I.  That is simply being a considerate friend.  

That's why I'm not thrilled with the unverified spoiler about Rachel and Sam dating in secret, it suggests that they haven't talked to Mercedes. 

Edited December 16, 2014 by fakeempress

[Myrna123]

LOL. You might be surprised.

I really, really wouldn't be.

 

So you think the road to happiness for a character like Rachel is standing aside because someone else might not be happy?

Yes, because there's only being a sociopathic maniac or never ever ever doing one single thing you want on the off chance that it might make someone currently on the earth a little bit less than happy.  Those are the only two choices.  It's a shame there aren't nuances and degrees of behavior in the universe, but there just aren't.

 

If you think character evolution for Rachel would be sitting in a corner, quietly contemplating how she can be happy ONLY IF someone else doesn't mind, I don't expect to change your mind.

I also think Rachel should read to blind (hospitalized) orphans every Sunday.  That would make her character evolution complete.  So, sitting in a corner, quietly contemplating how she can be happy ONLY if someone else doesn't mind - that would be Monday through Saturday and then the blind (hospitalized) orphan thing on Sundays.

[caracas1914]

I have a feeling that Mercedes will be shown to be "over" Sam, but that Rachel and Sam want to keep their dating on the low down. 

 

It's so stupid because showing Rachel able to move on from Finn, and capable of loving again could have been handled far better than having her take on the sloppy seconds of every other girl on the show, Sam Evans.  Again it shows the writers who want something to happend (Samchel) regardless of how it contradicts the characters involved.  Rachel to triumph in NY again (I can't fathom even these writers are so fucked up they'd anchor her in Lima, Ohio) would be either leaving the tree stump back in Ohio or dragging him to the Big Apple where a SL was already established he doesn't feel he belongs.  All simply to service an actor who is far from having a large fanbase or even exceptional singing or acting skills.

 

Chord Overstreet must be a very skillfull lobbyist. 

 

Well at least for the first 10 episodes of the season it's seems most of the action is in Lima and McKinley, so I expect the last few episodes to wrap up there also.  Who would have thought that six years from the pilot the "triumph" of the New Directions students would be have a new group of kids win Sectionals/Regionals and best the dastardly Sue. 

Edited December 16, 2014 by caracas1914

[Advance35]

It's so stupid because showing Rachel able to move on from Finn, and capable of loving again could have been handled far better than having her take on the sloppy seconds of every other girl on the show, Sam Evans.  Again it shows the writers who want something to happend (Samchel) regardless of how it contradicts the characters involved.  Rachel to triumph in NY again (I can't fathom even these writers are so fucked up they'd anchor her in Lima, Ohio) would be either leaving the tree stump back in Ohio or dragging him to the Big Apple where a SL was already established he doesn't feel he belongs.

 

Wasn't Lima Rachel's future?  Didn't RM say he saw Finn staying in Ohio and Rachel being unfulfilled with fame and eventually coming back to join him?   That gave me the impression RIB never thought it was Rachel's destiny to be a shining star on Broadway.

[camussie]

I wouldn't say never.  He obviously thought it was her destiny the first three seasons of the show.  He also obviously thought it was finn's destiny to escape the Lima dome as well as that was part of his story for the first three seasons of the show.  Basically I think "Opening Night" was the ending he pictured for Rachel for seasons 1-3 with the major difference that Finn wasn't there with the rest of them.    

 

Then when he didn't get his spin-off he couldn't keep the choir room as the heart of the show and fulfill the original stories for his lead characters so what gave was those original stories.  First Finn's (because again for the first 3 seasons of the show he was all about getting out of Lima) and then Rachel's (in the last 5 minutes of the series).  Hope springs eternal that with Finn's death he will go back to a form of Rachel's original ending (although like I said we already got what it should have been in "Opening Night") but I also wouldn't put it past RM to keep Rachel in Lima coaching the glee club while Sam coaches the football team.  

Edited December 16, 2014 by camussie