Spoilers and Discussion

[caracas1914]

Forget Kurt, the character completely thrown under the boss is Burt, officiating a wedding when he was trying to undermine the exact same thing with Finn/Rachel who at least had been going around for a year.

All kidding aside:

As to saying " Poor character X":

Of course it's on the writers, doesn't mean we can't sympathize with characters we initially grew fond of, which is exactly the point. The writers want us to see the characters as separate entities yet can't write them consistently to save their lives. I mean I say this sincerely even though I know it's the writers: Poor, poor , poor Tina.

i have no problems with the fans of any character saying " Poor XYZ", they should be sympathized with. I do think they've written Blaine so horribly, so I'm sure his fans aren't thrilled.

Some of the characters who initially had more development and good actors inhabiting them ( Kurt/Rachel/Burt/Santana/Finn) it just hurts me more when the character is undermined by the shitty writing. Of course it's biased but there you go.

[Sara2009]

Forget Kurt, the character completely thrown under the boss is Burt, officiating a wedding when he was trying to undermine the exact same thing with Finn/Rachel who at least had

been going around for a year.

All kidding aside:

As to saying " Poor character X":

Of course it's on the writers, doesn't mean we can't sympathize with characters we initially grew fond of, which is exactly the point. The writers want us to see the characters as

separate entities yet can't write them consistently

to save their lives. I mean I say this sincerely

even though I know it's the writers: Poor, poor ,

poor Tina.

i have no problems with the fans of any character saying " Poor XYZ", they should be sympathized with. I do think they've written

Blaine so horribly, so I'm sure his fans aren't

thrilled.

Some of the characters who initially had more development and good actors inhabiting them ( Kurt/Rachel/Burt/Santana/Finn) it just hurts me more when the character is undermined by the

shitty writing. Of course it's biased but there you

go.

I'd add Will and Sue to that list.

[tom87]

I sympathize with Kurt.   I sympathize with all the being stuck in Lima or stuck with their HS sweethearts without really getting to experience the world.

 

I've seen on some sites where people are mad at Kurt's  friends or his father.   Here we just had both Rachel and Blaine blamed for him being in Lima.  I've seen this posed....why have none of his so called friends told him how awful Blaine is.. Why is no one looking out for Kurt.

 

Well the answer is simple the writers and ergo his friends do not  think Blaine is awful.

Edited December 10, 2014 by tom87

[fakeempress]

We can yell and shout and say they did something out of character but since they are fictional nothing is out of character.

 

Hey I know Rachel  my favorite can be a selfish diva. But what is frustrating is they make it like she has learned and has mellowed only to have her do the same thing over again. 

 

So if I am to believe she is still a selfish brat then Blaine is a needy douche and Kurt is a self-righteous masochist.

Some shows manage to keep their characters more consistent, and their characters are also fictional. When what the characters do doesn't make any sense or they don't learn to the point of ridiculousness, I'm with truthaboutluv blaming the writers. Ryan hasn't met a sensationalist campy plot or just a random whim that he won't twist any character into. Like when he woke up one day loving the colour orange, so we got Wonder-ful.

 

All this is true if you put together the complaints of the respective fandoms. As caracas says, fandoms fixate on the character they stan for and start to take offense for their sake and lose perspective that the same is being done to the rest as well. 

Edited December 10, 2014 by fakeempress

[jaytee1812]

I'd add Will and Sue to that list.

  

I've never thought Sue was a good character. Never understood what was supposed to be funny about a racist bully being inflicted on children.

Like when he woke up one day loving the colour orange, so we got Wonder-ful.

I'm sorry... What?!!

[tom87]

  

Like when he woke up one day loving the colour orange, so we got Wonder-ful.

I'm sorry... What?!!

I think the poster was just being factious in that anything related or not could trigger an idea in Ryan.

Some shows manage to keep their characters more consistent, and their characters are also fictional. When what the characters do doesn't make any sense or they don't learn to the point of ridiculousness, I'm with truthaboutluv blaming the writers. Ryan hasn't met a sensationalist campy plot or just a random whim that he won't twist any character into. Like when he woke up one day loving the colour orange, so we got Wonder-ful.

 

All this is true if you put together the complaints of the respective fandoms. As caracas says, fandoms fixate on the character they stan for and start to take offense for their sake and lose perspective that the same is being done to the rest as well. 

We all know it is the writing.

 

And yes we have are favorites.  Just is off and sometimes even confusing that some are blamed while others are excused due to the writing.

Edited December 10, 2014 by tom87

[fakeempress]

Not being facetious, there was a fan blogger account - I think they were on a set visit and talked to Brad and it came out how Ryan just felt like the colour orange one day and it was made into a theme in Wonder-ful.  I mentioned it as an example of the randomness and whims. 

[fakeempress]

I think the poster was just being factious in that anything related or not could trigger an idea in Ryan.

We all know it is the writing

 

And yes we have are favorites.  Just is off and sometimes even confusing that some are blamed while others are excused due to the writing.

My point is that's done by all stans and fandoms, not just by those who stan Kurt. Specifically in Kurt/Blaine's case, It's not called the better (should be renamed worse) boyfriend olympics for nothing. 

Edited December 10, 2014 by fakeempress

[Hana Chan]

The really amazing thing is that this crap is being written by people who are supposed to be professionals! I can almost imagine that you have the writers sitting around a table and bouncing ideas off one another and one of them said, "You know what? This is the final season and renewal isn't even a remote option. Our ratings suck, which means that no one is really watching and we've got 13 episodes to fill. What say we go completely apeshit and just burn the place down on our way out the door?"

 

If someone told me that they were deliberately writing the show this way just to upset what few fans they had left, I could totally buy it.

[tom87]

My point is that's done by all stans and fandoms, not just by those who stan Kurt. Specifically in Kurt/Blaine's case, It's not called the better (should be renamed worse) boyfriend olympics for nothing. 

I know that is done by all groups.  But some balance is always nice and it is hard to find. 

Edited December 10, 2014 by tom87

[fakeempress]

I know that is done by all groups.  But some balance is always nice and it is hard to find. 

It's not hard to find, if you look at all stans in toto, they balance each other out. It's wishful thinking to look for it from any single dedicated stan and standom.

Edited December 10, 2014 by fakeempress

[tom87]

Yeah sure...

 

Anyway some song spoilers, seems GoBR  got some info.

6x08 “A Wedding” - Song Spoiler

I’m So Excited by Pointer Sisters (unknown singers) 

Hey Ya by OutKast  (unknown singers)

At Last (Etta James), sang by Mercedes and Artie

Our Day Will Come sang by Santana, Brittany, Kurt and Blaine

 

http://gleekoutbr.tumblr.com/

 

 

ETA : Sugar Motta is back for the wedding.

Edited December 10, 2014 by tom87

[jaytee1812]

At Last (Etta James), sang by Mercedes and Artie

Our Day Will Come sang by Santana, Brittany, Kurt and Blaine

 

http://gleekoutbr.tumblr.com/

Good god no for the first. And dear god no for the second.

[SeanC]

I always wanted to see Mercedes and Santana sing something by the Pointer Sisters.

[tom87]

I always wanted to see Mercedes and Santana sing something by the Pointer Sisters.

I think it will be all the girls.

[caracas1914]

This tumblr source has spoilers for 6.08 , please take with the usual grain of salt...

 

http://gleespoilery.tumblr.com/

 

However the spoilers seem to fit in with the photo spoilers and others we have so far, so I guess have to wait and see if others confirm some of the stuff...

[Ann Mack]

This tumblr source has spoilers for 6.08 , please take with the usual grain of salt...

 

http://gleespoilery.tumblr.com/

 

However the spoilers seem to fit in with the photo spoilers and others we have so far, so I guess have to wait and see if others confirm some of the stuff...

 

I'm still trying to figure out from 6x04 Sam is still in love with Mercedes to secretly dating Rachel by 6x07. Can most of us agree now that Rachel is the WORST kind of a friend. She pretty much encouraged Mercedes to break up with Sam while she was on tour and then she moves in on him. Did the writers also forget ALL the great loving moments Sam and Mercedes shared in those last episodes of season 5. I just can't season 6 is shaping up to be the season of where they are just throwing unbelievable random bullshit all over the walls and in the fans face and telling them it smells nice.

 

What are they doing? Some of this stuff seems so unbelievable that it must be true cause Glee just DOESN'T give a damn any more!

[fakeempress]

I can believe the Rachel/Sam thing. They've been on the nose with Sam's ascension to become Finn, and now it's complete with Rachel. It's despicable. And does that mean they'll give Rachel the old Finchel ending? They made a big deal of Sam not being cut out for the big city and making a life in Lima. How's that gonna work for Rachel unless she stays back in Lima? It's just beyond comprehension. 

 

Sam has now dated or kissed Quinn, Santana, Mercedes, Tina (the kissing), oops forgot Brittany, now Rachel, plus the student nurse (forgot her name). They must be seeing something I'm not. 

Edited December 12, 2014 by fakeempress

[Sara2009]

The Rachel/Sam thing doesn't surprise me. I knew they'd probably want to pair Rachel up with another regular, and Sam is the only option left besides Artie. Plus, the writers were clearly playing with that dynamic a bit last season.

With all of this being said, a Sam/Mercedes endgame still wouldn't surprise me.

[Ann Mack]

The Rachel/Sam thing doesn't surprise me. I knew they'd probably want to pair Rachel up with another regular, and Sam is the only option left besides Artie. Plus, the writers were clearly playing with that dynamic a bit last season.

With all of this being said, a Sam/Mercedes endgame still wouldn't surprise me.

 

I know its a show and I shouldn't let this "supposed true" spoiler upset me but it does. Mercedes was a good friend to her. She knows how they feel and felt about each other, now I wouldn't be surprised if in an earlier episode they have Mercedes telling Sam to move on so it doesn't make Rachel appear all that bad, but in my book it still does! Well I guess I wait and see its just your final season should have your remaining fans wanting to tune in not run away further. Well since it seems to be all mums the word on anything Mercedes related I do wish that whatever the outcome she stays fabulous and successful. I don't think Lima is in her future and I wonder how Sam will play into Rachel's plans if she decides to leave Lima. We all know big city life is not what Sam wants. 

 

I figured that Brad (I think he is the one who wanted to explore them together I mean he was all giddy about that disgusting modeling scene in S5) would go there since apparently they have free reign and no one really cares what any past story lines have to do with this final season. Overall IMO though its sad to see Rachel once again discard one of her friends happiness for her own selfish wants!

Edited December 12, 2014 by Ann Mack

[truthaboutluv]

I'm still trying to figure out from 6x04 Sam is still in love with Mercedes to secretly dating Rachel by 6x07.

 

 

The same way Blaine can go from being in a relationship with Kurt's former tormentor one episode before he and Kurt get married.

 

Sam has always been incredibly fickle and quick with his feelings. He was practically declaring love and forever and wanting to propose marriage to Quinn when they'd barely been dating. His relationship with that nurse seemingly came out of nowhere and then she vanished and the next thing he was madly in love with Brittany and proposing to her. Then she left and then he was suddenly back in love with Mercedes.

 

The last scene of the episode shows Brittana going back to New York and Kurt moving in with Blaine.

 

 

Guess breakup #3 will follow soon but not to accuse them of being repetitive, I guess this time it will Blaine annoyed with Kurt crowding his space since it's his apartment. 

Edited December 12, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[camussie]

So what would be the point of Rachel giving Kurt the Finn necklace?  Look I get that Rachel should move forward but it just seems like they are trying to completely erase Finn from her life.  She can move forward and still regard Finn as someone who was special to her.  As for Rachel moving forward with Sam I will always resent it simply because of how Sam was introduced.  For a show that likes to pat itself on the back for celebrating diversity, they sure like to view white straight jocks as pretty much interchangeable.  Newsflash to RM - they are not.  Not as characters and not was what the actors bring to those characters.  RM sure liked to talk up the contributions Cory brought to the show (after his death, before that he barely mentioned him) but his writing seems to indicate that he thinks that the character was completely replaceable.

 

As for Rachel secretly dating Sam of course Mercedes will give her the go ahead after she finds out.  As for how that affects Rachel's future it could definitely be used as a way to keep her in Lima.  Frankly if it isn't and they say Sam will move with her that will earn yet another screw you, Ryan from me.  It will bug me to no end if he decides to move sam to NY at series end even though he planned on keeping Finn trapped in Lima in perputuity

Edited December 12, 2014 by camussie

[shantown]

Sam has now dated or kissed Quinn, Santana, Mercedes, Tina (the kissing), oops forgot Brittany, now Rachel, plus the student nurse (forgot her name). They must be seeing something I'm not. 

The Sam character could have had some neat storylines, but he's never had anything to do besides being Suddenly Boyfriend.

[truthaboutluv]

So what would be the point of Rachel giving Kurt the Finn necklace? Look I get that Rachel should move forward but it just seems like they are trying to completely erase Finn from her life. She can move forward and still regard Finn as someone who was special to her.

It could just be as a "something borrowed" for the wedding because Finn was his stepbrother.

[camussie]

It could be but I bet right now the scene will some how include Kurt saying Finn would approve of Rachel moving on with Sam.  

[caracas1914]

The 'something' borrowed is what traditionally a Bride has, so no thank you as far as Kurt.

I'm hoping it's more that Rachel wants Kurt to feel his stepbrother is present at the ceremony with the necklace as a reminder.

.

[fakeempress]

The 'something' borrowed is what traditionally a Bride has, so no thank you as far as Kurt.

I'm hoping it's more that Rachel wants Kurt to feel his stepbrother is present at the ceremony with the necklace as a reminder.

.

I can see them making it about both these things, easily. They never leave a good thing alone.

Edited December 12, 2014 by fakeempress

[Glorfindel]

I know its a show and I shouldn't let this "supposed true" spoiler upset me but it does. Mercedes was a good friend to her. She knows how they feel and felt about each other, now I wouldn't be surprised if in an earlier episode they have Mercedes telling Sam to move on so it doesn't make Rachel appear all that bad, but in my book it still does!

This is the same Rachel who went after Blaine when she knew Kurt was in love with him, and even said to Kurt "Who cares about you, buddy?" so tbh I'm not that surprised.

 

But ugh at Rachel dating Sam (I'm not a shipper, but I liked Samcedes), if only so she won't end the show single, because we apparently can't have that for a female lead character.

With Kurt's end goal on the show clearly being winning back Mr. was-fucking-your-ex-bully-only-weeks-ago Anderson it seems that Rachel's ultimate prize might be ending up with Finn 2.0 (yeah, they wish) Sam. Hopefully they'll still let Hummelberry return to New York at the end of the show, to get back to working on their careers, instead of making them Stepford wives forever.

[Advance35]

Table for 1 please.

 

I'm happy about the Sam/Rachel spoiler.   He's HOT.  LOVE his muscle tone and I think he and Rachel have a nice chemistry.   Life moves forward, it happens.    Rachel told Mercedes what she thought at the time but ultimately it was up to Mercedes to make her own choice and she chose time apart for Sam and he agreed.    Maybe they think they are still it for each other but when they meet up and really connect the "magic" just isn't there for them anymore.   Que Sera.

 

IF Rachel thinks she could be happy with Sam, she doesn't owe Mercedes anything.   I don't think anyone should ever subjugate their own wants for someone else unless it's your kid.   And I'm not down with slut shaming so who's been with who isn't really a thing for me, though I think the highest honors go to Puck and Britney, but what does it matter.   Sam had a lot of amorous interaction when he was in High School.  *Pearl Clutch & Gasp*

 

N E Way.  I'm happy it looks like Rachel may actually not end up lonely in the end.   And again because it bears repeating.   LOVE his muscles.

[camussie]

I have no issue with Sam dating a lot in high school beyond the fact that he seems to fall in love at the drop of a hat so it makes me doubt his latest declaration of feelings.  As far as Rachel/Mercedes I just think if they are friends Rachel should at least talk to her about her feelings for Sam.  

 

My real issue is still how distasteful I find them moving Rachel on with someone they have been promoting as a blonder Finn since season 2, something they doubled down on since Finn passed.  The show shouldn't pat itself on the back for celebrating diversity on one hand then treat white male jocks like they are interchangeable on the other.  For all of RM's nice words about Cory/Finn (again after he passed because before he passed he barely spoke about him with the exception of letting the media know he hadn't talked to Cory about the post season 3 plans but he was sure he knew about them) he has pushed the idea that since season 2 that he is entirely replaceable.  They can move Rachel forward without trying to erase Finn's place on the show through simply slotting someone in his place.  The fact that they are attempting to do just that underscores, to me, that RM and team have never understood or appreciated what the actor/character brought to the show.  All the pretty words can't cover up what their writing so blatantly shows.  

 

And to underscore that this just isn't about Rachel I am one who really disliked "City of Angels" last year even though it was pushed as an episode that supposedly honored Finn's impact on ND.  My take on the episode was that they were using Finn's memory to try and push Sam as the new Finn up to and including co-opting the Will/Finn relationship (Finn's second most significant relationship on the show) to drive the point home.  Before that episode Will had never given any indication he thought of Sam as the "heir apparent" to Finn's place in ND (if that was anyone it was Blaine) yet in that episode suddenly Will is talking about how he is.  No matter how good Matthew Morrison was in those scenes (and he was) the writing itself was so manipulative and shallow I just ended up rolling my eyes at how blatant their they were in their desire to sell Sam as the new Finn.

 

As for Sam's muscles sure he has a good physique but I find Chord Overstreet such a bland actor that all I can say is it is like looking at  a billboard.   An billboard with a bland background none the less.  Not to mention while Chord and Lea don't have anti-chemistry I also see no spark there at all.  Sam & Rachel come across like people who would have a pleasant conversation on the plane and then promptly forget about each other the second they de-boarded.

Edited December 12, 2014 by camussie

[Cranberry]

I find Sam boring, dumb, and unfunny. Putting aside any "girl code" stuff, I just don't understand what Rachel would see in him (or what Mercedes sees, for that matter).

[Advance35]

Well to be fair Rachel can fall just as easily.   One of the many hinderances I found to appreciating the Finn/Rachel relationship was because she became into him like a light switch.  She heard his voice and that was it.   Her interest in Finn always seemed superficial to me, like she loved what he represented to her more than him for who he was.   I wish TPTB had explored that but the *ensemble* was to big and to many PSA's to focus on such a thing.

 

I also have always found Sam and Finn  to be very different.  I don't Sam comes across or is really promoted as a Leader.   I think he's always had more spine than Finn but that's something different.  All the males did, Puck, Jesse, Blaine, I've always seen just about every male character being made of sterner stuff.   The only thing the two characters ever had in common was not being intellectually gifted.

 

As for Mercedes....meh.   This doesn't happen the day after the finale.  Apparently quite a bit of time has passed and clearly he and Mercedes haven't felt a BURNING desire to reignite things or they probably would have by now.   Something I've always liked about Sam is that he seems to see both sides of Rachel.   He's seen how first-hand how self-involved, selfish, (at times) underhanded and insensitive  she can be but he never beat up on her for it like the rest of the club.   Maybe it's because the writers never had time to get to it but it appeals to me.   Even at their most casual he knew she was often annoying but always seemed to be nice to her anyway.

 

I don't think Sam dating Rachel erases the seasons of nonsense past, it's just part of the process of moving forward.

 

I find Sam boring, dumb, and unfunny. Putting aside any "girl code" stuff, I just don't understand what Rachel would see in him (or what Mercedes sees, for that matter).

 

 

That's pretty much how I felt about Finn.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Advance35

[camussie]

I also have always found Sam and Finn  to be very different.  I don't Sam comes across or is really promoted as a Leader.   I think he's always had more spine than Finn but that's something different.  All the males did, Puck, Jesse, Blaine, I've always seen just about every male character being made of sterner stuff.   The only thing the two characters ever had in common was not being intellectually gifted.

 

 

You and I may have felt that way (for entirely different reasons as I find Sam to be entirely forgettable) but the writers have made it clear since season 2 that they viewed Sam as the blonder Finn. At times they even pitted them against each other with Sam usually getting the hero writing (like in Furt were everyone expected Finn to be Kurt's protector and when he wasn't and Sam was Sam was praised as a leader which will forever annoy me).  They doubled down on that last season with "City of Angels." 

 

Also unfortunately quite a bit of time hasn't passed.  Only about 6 months if spoilers are to be believed.  That is why I think Rachel should at least talk to Mercedes.  If Mercedes has an issue with it that doesn't have to stop Rachel from dating Sam but a good friend would at least say hey this is happening.  

 

As for Sam not judging Rachel for the most part I don't think he ever thought of her.  He was too busy being caught up in his romance of the moment.  

Edited December 12, 2014 by camussie

[ComfySweater]

They seem to playing a game of pair the spares so I'm not even slightly surprised Sam gets matched up with Rachel. She's a higher priority to the show than Mercedes, so she gets the conveniently single white dudebro type. It's what they do. Before the end I also expect Tina and Mike to be back together as well. I wouldn't even be surprised if that girl from Glee Project shows back up for Artie.

 

Almost none of these relationships make sense after everything they did to the characters and relationships along the way, but that doesn't seem to matter to these producers. They consider it uplifting and happy endings so long as they're all paired up when the clock runs out. Who cares what we had to watch all along the way when it was actually on screen? What matters to these people is where they end up. This might be why the ratings have gotten so terrible. Most people decide based on what will be enjoyable to watch each week, not what they think will happen at the very end in spite of everything that came before it.

[caracas1914]

I guess the show is reduced to making Rachel now a "pair the spare" character.  Since Sam is the only white straight enabled male standing, Rachel is doomed to be hooked up with him.

 

Never  mind that Sam has been paired with all the other women because the show has absolutely nothing else do do with this  bland character.

 

Something I've always liked about Sam is that he seems to see both sides of Rachel.

 

Doubt if they had more than a dozen words of dialogue alone in four seasons of the show.    Mercedes and her took him to the Prom in Season two but that was as much about Mercedes as Rachel, and then was the "Moving Out" episode in Season five.  That's it.      So I disagree there has ever been even much acknowledgment of each other's presence in scenes on the show.

 

It's not like there was even reactions shots to each other in those four  seasons.

 

Of course there was the retconning that Brittany was the one Sam wanted from the getgo so I suppose the writers are capable of doing that with Rachel/Sam, ie pull it even more completely out of their asses.

Edited December 12, 2014 by caracas1914

[camussie]

So really how will Sam/Rachel work out.  It can only end one of three ways and two of them will tick me off

• Rachel decides to stay in Lima for Sam because Sam himself has said straight out he doesn't want to live in NY.  I have grown quite ambivalent about Rachel but I still want her to decide to try and give Broadway another shot.  As long as they just show her deciding to try again versus giving her instant success again.  Even as a Finn/Rachel fan I never liked an ending where he never left his comfort zone and she gave up her career to return to Lima
• Sam decides that even though he doesn't like New York he will move to that area to be with Rachel.  This would really tick me off because that is the ending they could have easily written for Finn/Rachel especially since Finn never said he didn't want to live in NY.  Just that it moved too fast to him and he said that when he felt so hopeless about his future
• Sam and Rachel decide it isn't going to work out precisely because Sam has made it quite clear he wants to live in Lima and Rachel realizes her place is in NY.  Sam is used as a transitional relationship to get Rachel to open herself to love again

Edited December 12, 2014 by camussie

[Sara2009]

I honestly think the 3rd option is the most likely.

[camussie]

Hopefully it is but I could see it being the first or the second and the second would be the final FU from RM and team to Finn and Finn/Rachel fans, something I am sure would give him some satisfaction considering his antipathy toward fans.    I mean surely he has heard how most people, even Finn/Rachel or maybe even especially Finn/Rachel fans, disliked his planned ending so what better way to screw with them then give Sam/Rachel the ending most Finn and Finn/Rachel fans wanted for them.

 

Then again it could be number 1 because RM is so sure of his vision he is clinging to his choir room ending which would mean trapping his lead, Rachel, there.

Edited December 12, 2014 by camussie

[Sara2009]

I never thought Finn would fit in NY, and Sam would fit even less.

[camussie]

Responding in the all episodes thread.

Edited December 12, 2014 by camussie

[Advance35]

It's not like there was even reactions shots to each other in those four  seasons.

 

 

On any other show maybe.  But this is Glee.   Sam has never relentlessly bashed her like everyone else.   He pulled her out of the fray when she tried to get into a fight with the football players in Superbowl Special, cute interactions when She and Finn went to get him from the strip club and when they learned about his home troubles, I think he has a little brother and sister.   By Glee standards I'm sold.

 

It's a pair the spares type thing but that's what Sam and Mercedes were.   

 

As for Sam usurping Finn....well I tried to block Finn out whenever possible so if it isn't Rachel centered I tend to forget.   So I can't say how Finn was shortchanged for Sam.    

 

And again as for Mercedes......different strokes.  I don't think Rachel owes her anything.  If Mercedes and Sam aren't together, if Rachel isn't holding one prisoner in a basement, it has nothing to do with her.   That's between Sam and Mercedes.    I manage to really like Puck/Rachel in the span of 13 episodes ( F13 of Season 1),  I managed to really like Jesse/Rachel in the span of 9 episodes ( B9 of Season 1, despite slanted writing),  hopefully can collectively drum up a last gasp of inspiration and get me fully on board with Sam/Rachel.   Again I feel loneliness has been a strong undercurrent for the Rachel character so her ending up in a relationship by the roll of the final credits would be a nice ending IMO.

[caracas1914]

Mike also never relentlessly bashed Rachel, yet as  a standard for getting people together that's a pretty low bar IMO.

 

Rachel had IMO MORE interactions with Kurt, Puck, Artie and of course Finn during her years on Glee. 

 

As to Sam not bashing her, well, he never bashed any character.   His function on the show was to hook up with next available female character.

The last one left standing he hasn't with yet?   Rachel Berry.

 

More than pair the spares, it seems desperation to keep Sam  viable in Season 6 since he has never had much character development or even compelling storylines.  The problem isn't that he has had other Love interests, it's that the way the show portrayed him as a joke by professing true love in these others, that  it's hard to in a handful of episodes left suddenly to paint  his relationship with Rachel as any different than all the other relationships on the show that didn't work out for Sam.  

 

It's a pair the spares type thing but that's what Sam and Mercedes were.

 

Sam and Mercedes were not leading characters, Rachel was the leading character since Day One.  To reduce her to a "spare" that has to be hooked up, what a comedown for the character.  It's just hard to picture her with a character as dumb as shit as Sam, who "married" Brittany because of the Mayan Apocalypse and thought a random Black woman in NY might know Mercedes Jones.   Rachel deserves more than a lump of coal as her last love interest.

Edited December 12, 2014 by caracas1914

[Advance35]

Well in all honesty I haven't thought of Rachel as a lead character since the end of Season 2.   Prominent?  Indeed.  Lead? I didn't get that impression.   I had to stomach frequent appearances by the insipid Burt and Carol consistently.   I didn't meet the SUPPOSED lead female characters parents until the latter half of Season 3 and it wasn't a story centered on her but Her AND Finn.   

 

Mike also never relentlessly bashed Rachel, yet as  a standard for getting people together that's a pretty low bar IMO.

Rachel had IMO MORE interactions with Kurt, Puck, Artie and of course Finn during her years on Glee.

 

 

Mike's muscle tone is wonderful too.   He's definitely superior to Finn so I would take him as her final love interest.    

 

And your right about Rachel's amount of interaction with various characters (with the exception of Puck) to my regret.   But Sam still doesn't bother me.   And Rachel ending up with him definitely doesn't for the reasons previously stated, with regards to how I view her character.

[caracas1914]

I had to stomach frequent appearances by the insipid Burt and Carol consistently.

 

Carole has made made 5 or 6 appearances in the last  3 years.

 

If it's about Season 1 and 2, Rachel in Seasons One and Two had probably 20 times  the screen time of Burt and Carole combined so was there another show with all these multiple Burt/Carole appearances that dominated the screentime?...

 

AS to not showing Rachel's dads, doesn't negate  Rachel, got more storylines and songs than anyone else by far in Seasons 1 and 2.

 

IF the criteria is simply not liking Burt and Carole , fair enough.   if that's the case I had to stomach frequent appearances by the insipid and brain dead Sam consistently.

 

Mike's muscle tone is wonderful too.

 

 

It's awe inspiring.

Edited December 12, 2014 by caracas1914

[camussie]

If Rachel isn't a lead character on this show I don't know who is;  She is the one consistent lead over the entirety of the show's run.  Her parents not being included (which they should have been) does not negate that.  

[jaytee1812]

If Rachel isn't a lead character on this show I don't know who is;  She is the one consistent lead over the entirety of the show's run.  Her parents not being included (which they should have been) does not negate that.

Also her birth mother has been in four of the five seasons so far.

[caracas1914]

She's the only young character to even duet several times with their parent. Hell all her parents sang on screen!

After five seasons she is as close to a lead character as anybody is on Glee, with her screentime only reduced in Season 4 when Ryan Murphy desperately wanted to save face and salvage his "going to be big stars" Noobs. Even then she had storylines throughout that season.

Edited December 12, 2014 by caracas1914

[Advance35]

Carole has made made 5 or 6 appearances in the last  3 years.

If it's about Season 1 and 2, Rachel in Seasons One and Two had probably 20 times  the screen time of Burt and Carole combined so was there another show with all these multiple Burt/Carole appearances that dominated the screentime?...

AS to not showing Rachel's dads, doesn't negate  Rachel, got more storylines and songs than anyone else by far in Seasons 1 and 2.

IF the criteria is simply not liking Burt and Carole , fair enough.   if that's the case I had to stomach frequent appearances by the insipid and brain dead Sam consistently.

 

 

Well i'm not counting out appearances because at this point I don't care enough. Can't think of any other show where I'm treated to a clear picture of everyone else's home life with the exception of the supposed *lead*.    Finn, Kurt, Quinn, Puck all had home lives that were very much illustrated.   And when her birth mother showed up again, I don't recall her having much interaction with Rachel, I think she spent a majority of her time with Quinn, Puck, Mercedes and Santana.

 

But maybe it's my bias and the writing/show has been wonderful to Rachel.   Front half of Season 2 where she was basically an armband for Finn Hudson was amazing character work.

 

Not that it matters, the show is all but over anyway.   Just glad she is shaping up to have an endgame relationship with a male I can stomach, I'll take my victories, however small, where I can get them.

[camussie]

Rachel had a home life that was very much illustrated.  We didn't actually see her dads that much but we saw her living space more than most characters. .  We saw her life outside of school.  For example I know what her bedroom, basement, kitchen, and work out room look like.  As well as where she took dance classes.  

 

Sure we should have seen her dads more but RM and team seemed to think that the only parent that really mattered was Burt Hummel.  To the point when Finn was learning about how his dad really died Burt was the one driving that conversation, not Carol.  

 

As for her being Finn's armband in the first half season 2 I couldn't disagree more.  They were in a story together but she was no more his armband than she was his and frankly both were not getting as much focus as the bullying Kurt was receiving.  That was the predominant story the first half of season 2.  

 

As for Sam being an endgame I really hope he isn't.  Not only because I find the character dull as dull can be but also because that will either mean that rachel will simply settle in Lima or Sam will go back to a place he clearly said he didn't like.  Either way one is written out of character.  

Edited December 12, 2014 by camussie

[truthaboutluv]

Well I guess this discussion sure solidifies exactly what was said some pages ago - everyone always thinks their favorite was the worse treated character. Can't we all agree that the writers have basically fucked up the writing for all of these characters at some point or another?