S05.E12: Remember

[minamurray78]

I'm willing to give the writers the benefit of the doubt, and take ASZ for what it looks like. It doesn't seem to be overly populated; Deanna doesn't seem to have  a posse of paramilitary douches like the governor did (Aiden and co don't even get close to Merle, Martinez or Gonzales et all), they are free to come in and out when they want ( I think Enid jumps the fences 'cause she doesn't want anyone to know she goes out, although they may not let the young ones out on their own) and check their guns out with them (they only store them while inside the fences, although they were allowed to keep all their knives and pointy shit).

We see a lot of details that would deem the place unsafe, so perhaps they were being straightfoward about that area being almost completely evacuated and off the grid. With time though, walkers and dangerous people would eventually get to them. I think Deanna might have wisened up to the dangers when problems arose and she had to exile those 3 people, and the limited skills her son has, and figured rather than being invaded, they should try to pick a force for themselves. As feral as CDB looks, we know they're decent and not vicious or cruel. I'll allow Aaron, Eric and Deanna to be good judges of character.

With Woodbury, Terminus and Grady, it didn't take long for the second shoe to drop, and it would be an interesting change in narrative for the group to not walk into another trap.

If I turned out to be wrong though, well, how repetitive for the show.

[chlban]

Hey, he never admitted he was a douche. Just proved it! :)

Actually, I'm pretty sure he did admit it. It was just that he admitted it before he proved it.

[Nashville]

Another impression:

When Rick was staring at the church steeple from Deanna's office, I don't think he was looking for a sniper; rather, i think he was reflexively scanning locations where he would put a sniper.

Upon reflection of the scene, an alternative possibility presented itself:

If CDB ends up having "issues" with Deanna, that steeple affords a spectacularly clear line of fire directly into her office....

Actually, I'm pretty sure he did admit it. It was just that he admitted it before he proved it.

In other words...

(Wait for it...)

...he CLAIMED it.

<ducking>

[chlban]

I am actually in the camp that thinks there is already a known threat, aside from the Walkers of course, and that is why the group was recruited. I won't be surprised if Rick ends up in charge, which would mean the group effectively takes over, but I don't think that means they are going to kill, imprison or eat the current ASZhats.  They can just be the ones in charge. The douche brothers won't like it, but I have a feeling no one much cares. 

 

What I have more trouble getting is why she is letting her idiot sons lead any runs. Seems like those two might need more supervision than Judith,  It's one thing for a mother to be blind to her kids faults, but she seems too smart to allow them to put into that much danger, being that they're idiots and all. 

[BrokenRemote]

You guys are right--I was so wrapped up in Aaron being a douche I forgot he said he was. Maybe he thinks it's one of those deals where if you admit to a flaw it's not so bad. If so, he's wrong.

[ghoulina]

What I have more trouble getting is why she is letting her idiot sons lead any runs. Seems like those two might need more supervision than Judith,  It's one thing for a mother to be blind to her kids faults, but she seems too smart to allow them to put into that much danger, being that they're idiots and all.

 

And it doesn't seem that she IS blind to his faults, as she was happy that Glenn knocked him out. It seems that she knows he can be an ass, at least. Who knows? Maybe he's her least favorite child and she doesn't mind sending him out on runs? LOL

[editorgrrl]

What I have more trouble getting is why she is letting her idiot sons lead any runs. Seems like those two might need more supervision than Judith,  It's one thing for a mother to be blind to her kids faults, but she seems too smart to allow them to put into that much danger, being that they're idiots and all. 

 

Only Aiden (the self-admitted douchebag) is Deanna's son. We don't yet know much about Nicholas, the other guy.

[AngelaHunter]

Only Aiden (the self-admitted douchebag)

 

Yes, he's a douchebag of the variety who probably sat around playing online  war games and feeling all badass, but who would piss his pants and scream "Mommy!!" if he were set down in a real war.

[chlban]

Only Aiden (the self-admitted douchebag) is Deanna's son. We don't yet know much about Nicholas, the other guy.

Oh, my bad, I thought they were brothers. Well, glad to hear she only has one idiot son. At least so far. 

[kj4ever]

Oh, my bad, I thought they were brothers. Well, glad to hear she only has one idiot son. At least so far. 

In her interview with Rick she said her son's helped the hubby put up the wall, so there very well could be another douchebag Monroe there.  Maybe he'll be the good one hence why he didn't go on the run....lol

[paigow]

Yes, and you pay extra for the one with the shower that Rick rinsed off in.

Next episode of CSI: Alexandria

 

Grissom: Sara, you and Nick process this bathroom. Mr. Clean has struck again, I can smell his DNA. Go find it.

 

Stokes: Dammit Grissom!! Sara fainted.

[kikismom]

Things did not end well for the Governor and he became irrelevant once he slaughtered most of his best fighters for questioning his BSC leadership, the same would have happened eventually if he'd succeeded in taking the prison. His inability to tolerate anything other than obedience was his eventual downfall, regardless of whether it had kept him in power as long as it had. Eventually you run out of people to run if you keep sacrificing them to the greater good of your leadership.

Rick and his group are not her best fighters; they are two of CDB's best fighters.

 

Who knows who Deanna's best fighters are---we only know who we've been introduced to. There are a lot of people in Alexandria who are unseen at this point.

Bringing fighter/warriors types out in the open would be enough to make Rick and co. on their guard ( or just start shooting outright to make an escape.)

 

The Governor did fine against the Army soldiers etc, he was ended as you said doing BSC stuff. Stuff that was unnecessary. Gareth did fine and wasn't losing his own people because they weren't half-aware/half-unaware. They all knew what was going on because they'd been raided and raped and killed. He only sacrificed others.

 

 I'd find it suspicious on several levels if she was doing an end run around Rick's leadership and appointing someone like Abraham as constable. He's a hothead and easily lead. I would raise an eyebrow if she were keeping him and Michonne out of the loop as much as possible while finding places for the rest of the group. She's getting some side-eye for Rick being handed a useless weapon when he went for a walkabout but I still find it more telling that Rick and Michonne were assigned as constables after a dispute where they de-escalated a confrontation without playing favourites between their people and hers.

Yes, it would be suspicious to keep Rick and Michonne out of the loop, or appoint someone like Abraham. It would be very obvious that CDB should suspect something.That's a good reason not to do it.

They de-escalated a confrontation---initiated by her son and long-time residents that are his crew. Because that couldn't be anything but authentic, could it?

 

They may do that confrontation every time new people come. They may have it rehearsed.

It certainly reveals a lot. Glenn showed his is also a kick-ass fighter, Daryl will jump in without hesitation, etc. When other people don't get to plan, when something happens suddenly and they act by reflex, that's when you see what they really are like...not just who they said they were on the videotapes.

 

poker player

 

 If there was a crisis it would be easy for the newcomers to take hostages or expel the weak, and really, once your child has a gun at their head or is outside the gates, with only a frail, elderly neighbour between them and a walker, how many would stand their ground and continue to fight inside the walls? The arms are seemingly kept in a central location. Take that, and you're likely done. Even if there are more elsewhere, (not improbable) that still gives CDB a significant cache of weapons. Even assuming that most of the buildings have people we haven't seen yet, for example, that block Deanna lives in could contain an awful lot of people, the newcomers still would represent a significant portion of the population and are a fairly cohesive group of experienced fighters and survivors. It doesn't seem like reasonable odds of success if her end game is to use them as fodder to maintain order. 

 

 I don't really understand the spoiler, is it a reference to events in the comics?

Thus, most of them have jobs which keep them away from each other so if one or two got a bunch of weapons they might have trouble handing them around.

Thus, Carl will be in school and if Rick is working and so are the others, who is watching Judith from now on?

Oh do they provide day care?

Oh is Jessie a mother who bonds with Rick and lives nearby and can have the baby at her house?

poker player

Noah, I'll say it again, don't get that operation on your leg!

 

 

I don't worry about my child being outside the walls---looks like the parents get sent out and the child gets kept as security against a revenge attack by those expelled by Deanna. Enid, for example.

I don't see CDB being a force with weapons until they have a way to all be together, with all those weapons distributed, and all their children safely with them. When you don't know and CDB doesn't know how many people are unseen, it would be very risky to assume you are a significant part of the population JMO, but I don't see newcomers expelling anyone.

 

Yes, the spoiler tag referred to the comic.

Things are happening too fast, too pat, too perfect like it's no surprise to ASZ that they suddenly have to find food and clothes and housing and jobs for a dozen unknown adults.

Edited March 5, 2015 by kikismom

[editorgrrl]

Things are happening too fast, too pat, too perfect like it's no surprise to ASZ that they suddenly have to find food and clothes and housing and jobs for a dozen unknown adults.

 

I don't see it that way at all. Deanna decided Alexandria needed new recruits, so she sent Aaron & Eric out to find some. They spent a couple of weeks spying on CDB; we have no idea how long it took to find them. That's plenty of time to allocate resources.

[AngelaHunter]

I can't help but wonder if the decision to make Rick a constable might have been put on hold had he really talked at his "audition", i.e. "Did I mention I ripped out a guy's jugular with my teeth? Still got some bits stuck in there, actually. Got a toothpick? Oh, and that cannibal? I hacked him to bits with a machete, but I'm sure you understand that ammunition is a valuable commodity and I didn't want to waste it blowing him away."

[kj4ever]

Was it just me that kind of chuckled with Rick when she was all "If I didn't get re-elected I was going to be a professional poker player" and she said it like "If I didn't get re-elected I was going to be a Navy Seal because I'm such a bad ass."  

 

It really was lame.

[minamurray78]

Was it just me that kind of chuckled with Rick when she was all "If I didn't get re-elected I was going to be a professional poker player" and she said it like "If I didn't get re-elected I was going to be a Navy Seal because I'm such a bad ass."  

 

It really was lame.

Yeah, that line was kinda clumsy.

Yeah, you're good at reading people, that's how you pegged Rick as some kind of LEO and your son as a douche, message received.

[Dodginblue]

Was it just me that kind of chuckled with Rick when she was all "If I didn't get re-elected I was going to be a professional poker player" and she said it like "If I didn't get re-elected I was going to be a Navy Seal because I'm such a bad ass."  

 

It really was lame.

 

I thought maybe it was strategic, you tell someone that you're good at reading people, that in another life you would have made a bundle doing that, and then you tell them something affirmative, something that connects with how the person sees him or herself.   So they think you're smart and intuitive  and that you think well of them and then they think well of you. People like to feel that what's good about them is what others see.

[kikismom]

I don't see it that way at all. Deanna decided Alexandria needed new recruits, so she sent Aaron & Eric out to find some. They spent a couple of weeks spying on CDB; we have no idea how long it took to find them. That's plenty of time to allocate resources.

A couple of weeks?  I know when they got to Richmond Rick said it had been 17 days. Then when they are walking in the area they found the barn Rick said it had been 21 days. They were in vans part of the time; when they were so thirsty it was after a van died and we heard Abraham say "It's out, just like the last one". They couldn't have been following them long with 2 vehicles, one being an RV.

[Nashville]

And it doesn't seem that she IS blind to his faults, as she was happy that Glenn knocked him out. It seems that she knows he can be an ass, at least. Who knows? Maybe he's her least favorite child and she doesn't mind sending him out on runs? LOL

Oh, by no means do I think Deanna is blind to Aiden's faults. I just think she is unable to do anything to her baby boy personally, so she manipulates other people to do what needs doing for her.

Yes, he's a douchebag of the variety who probably sat around playing online war games and feeling all badass, but who would piss his pants and scream "Mommy!!" if he were set down in a real war.

This to the infinity power.

In her interview with Rick she said her son's helped the hubby put up the wall, so there very well could be another douchebag Monroe there. Maybe he'll be the good one hence why he didn't go on the run....lol

I don't think Aiden is totally bad - not yet, at least.

I think he's just partially rotten.

As in spoiled rotten, when he was a kid.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Nashville

[paigow]

Yes, he's a douchebag of the variety who probably sat around playing online  war games and feeling all badass, but who would piss his pants and scream "Mommy!!" if he were set down in a real war.

Now Father Pee Pants has a laundry buddy.

[tennisgurl]

I imagine Douche pants will end up getting a big old wake up call when something inevitably goes down...

 

I think after everything our guys have been through, and the genuinely horrifying people they have met, some garden variety asshole kid isn't going to be that big of a deal. 

[editorgrrl]

Deanna decided Alexandria needed new recruits, so she sent Aaron & Eric out to find some. They spent a couple of weeks spying on CDB; we have no idea how long it took to find them. That's plenty of time to allocate resources.

I thought the Talking Dead quiz said Aaron & Eric had watched CDB for a couple of weeks.

Ross Marquand said "at least a week or two" in this interview: http://comicbook.com/2015/02/23/the-walking-deads-aaron-talks-alexandria-community-and-negan/

Edited March 6, 2015 by editorgrrl

[kikismom]

OK, I see you got it from there, it must be how the show wants it! I just don't understand these writers then. But after all these seasons I shouldn't be surprised anymore   :- D

Edited March 6, 2015 by kikismom

[Yolapukka]

 

Rick and his group are not her best fighters; they are two of CDB's best fighters.

 

My point was about the Governor massacring many of Woodbury's able bodied fighters before he disappeared as a criticism of whether his stye of leadership was effective in the longterm. It's irrelevant as to where Rick would be positioned in Deannas' firmament . as you said yourself;

 

Who knows who Deanna's best fighters are---we only know who we've been introduced to. There are a lot of people in Alexandria who are unseen at this point.

 

 Rick, regardless of whether Deanna intends that he play a part in her supposed psycho-politics which ends with him pushing up daisies, could still cause a lot of damage. It doesn't seem worthwhile. I've no doubt another shoe will drop, but it seems likelier to me that it will come from the outside unless Alexandria's under-secured premises are part of a larger elaborate ruse to get CDB to let their guard down. 

 

 

Yes, it would be suspicious to keep Rick and Michonne out of the loop, or appoint someone like Abraham. It would be very obvious that CDB should suspect something.That's a good reason not to do it.

 

 There would be a perfectly sound reason not to give Rick or Michonne positions as constables. Rick is the obvious leader, Michonne is his second.  They will be armed and will have regular access to the armoury.  It would be rational decision making to openly acknowledge that until his group settles in he will not be in a position of leadership in the larger community. That would be true no matter whether she had some villainous"because reasons" plot to increase her citizens loyalty to her by offering up Rick as an eventual scapegoat or if she was just demonstrating simple pragmatism in dealing with newcomers joining her community. At the very least, if she had plans to break up the team, she'd be enacting plans to break up the team by either dividing them or going around them. If she was looking for someone to be a lightning rod for conflict, Abraham and Daryl would be good choices, with Daryl being out of the running as constable because it is obviously ridiculous.

 

 

 

They de-escalated a confrontation---initiated by her son and long-time residents that are his crew. Because that couldn't be anything but authentic, could it?

They may do that confrontation every time new people come. They may have it rehearsed.

It certainly reveals a lot. Glenn showed his is also a kick-ass fighter, Daryl will jump in without hesitation, etc. When other people don't get to plan, when something happens suddenly and they act by reflex, that's when you see what they really are like...not just who they said they were on the videotapes.

 

If so, good for her. It seems like a good, if not risk-free way of testing how newcomers deal with conflict. 

 

 

 

I don't worry about my child being outside the walls---looks like the parents get sent out and the child gets kept as security against a revenge attack by those expelled by Deanna. Enid, for example.

I don't see CDB being a force with weapons until they have a way to all be together, with all those weapons distributed, and all their children safely with them. When you don't know and CDB doesn't know how many people are unseen, it would be very risky to assume you are a significant part of the population JMO, but I don't see newcomers expelling anyone.

 

If Carl is going to school, other children are going to school, in one location from which they could be rounded up and forcibly expelled, If they are with their families, they can be removed and expelled. if they are being forced to sleep in some guarded dormitory away from the rest they are still a potential point of attack . Forcible, strategic expulsion is irrelevant as to whether they are allowed to venture outside the walls on their own. If Enid is there as a hostage to prevent against an attack by her expelled (in theory only) family members, I'd have to say that it's not really working.  If the neighbour offers to sit for Judith, Rick is capable of saying no, and his people are capable of saying no to jobs that leave them all unavailable to look after her. It would infinitely more suspicious if the community were insisting the Grimes children be entrusted to their care than it would that  Rick be employed to kick rocks and never carry even a big stick. I do tend to think the kids are important, not so much as hostages, potential or actual but because they represent a huge leap of trust, to allow yourself to dwell within the same walls as potentially dangerous strangers and their mere existence is proof of of some semblance of a normal sense of community.

 

Camp Dinner Bell are all together. They aren't looking for a hypothetical secret meet-up point. They are still sleeping in the same room and will eventually divide between two adjacent houses. Any separation is at their own discretion and they've already been given access to the armoury. I'm still side-eying the problem Rick had with that gun, but I'm also side-eying Rick for not ensuring himself that it was loaded. All it takes is one person to be scope out the armoury, enter it, and give a signal for things to go in their favour.

From the clip AMC has on their site, it's administered by one person who lets citizens enter to select their weapons and who seems to be a former coffee-shop manager who is focused on obtaining supplies for food preservation. Maybe that's a ruse too, but prosciutto-making seems like an overly elaborate, though delicious way of gaining trust.  

 

 

I don't think anything has happened too fast. One, they knew they were coming, Two, they either need people or they don't. If they don't need people but are just using them for some nefarious reasons, I doubt they would be allowing groups as large as Rick's inside. I believe Deanna has taken a calculated risk in letting them in because they need people to stay sustainable. it doesn't matter if they enough electricity to run the refrigerators if there is nothing beyond apples and stale-dated canned food to put inside, or your little society is too small and insular to deal with petty problems and exterior threats effectively.

Edited March 6, 2015 by yuggapukka

[Dodginblue]

I thought the Talking Dead quiz said Aaron & Eric had watched CDB for a couple of weeks.

Ross Marquand said "at least a week or two" in this interview: http://comicbook.com/2015/02/23/the-walking-deads-aaron-talks-alexandria-community-and-negan/

 

It doesn't really matter I suppose but  I find the whole scouting thing difficult to believe, and especially difficult to believe if it really did go on for a couple of weeks.  I just don't see how you leave the ASZ and start wandering around looking for random groups of people and then watch for awhile, close enough to observe who and what they are but not so close that you would be detected yourself.  And at the same time avoid walkers and wild life and feral dogs and crazy people. And they had vehicles so they would need to find gasoline to keep them going. An RV gets what 13 miles to the gallon or something.  Which if that's easy to do, CDB should be interested in learning how that works, finding working vehicles that you can keep on the road.  

[kikismom]

I imagine Douche pants will end up getting a big old wake up call when something inevitably goes down...

 

I think after everything our guys have been through, and the genuinely horrifying people they have met, some garden variety asshole kid isn't going to be that big of a deal. 

To be clear, I don't think CDB will be back on the road in 24 hours or anything. I have to play devil's advocate though. There has always be willingness to question new places and new communities. All of a  sudden, this ASZ is being believed as it looks. I just think there are some things that are not adding up, and it all seems to be a put-on to some degree.

The Governor blew it by not having everyone on board with the program; Terminus had full agreement amongst their people but too basic and they moved too fast.

(I still wonder why if they had all those bodies on the hooks why they were in such a hurry to kill people right after they walk in.). As the ZA goes on, people who are still alive are not just stronger, but craftier, wilier. (compare Sofia and Enid).

I'll be the stubborn bitch who follows the Daryl strategy...

If it seems too good to be true, it probably is. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But I'm not drinking the Kool-Aid just yet.

Edited March 6, 2015 by kikismom

[gutbuster]

This was my favorite episode in a LONG time. I haven't stayed up to watch the encore on Sunday night in probably a year. But I did and I still want to watch it again! Lately there seems to be a lot of callbacks to previous seasons and pre-apocalypse life that I really enjoyed. A lot of little moments, too, like Maggie smelling the clean sheets and Glenn smiling at her. I loved the pan around the room as they were all settling in, the way Daryl peeked in the crib as Rick was putting Judith in it. I like the moments when everyone's just being together. 

 

I've been trying to figure out why the introduction of Jessie is irritating me. It's not the idea of a love interest for Rick - I'm one of the ones who prefers to watch relationship and 'people' stories over big explosions and action, so I wouldn't mind it. I think it's just the cliched way this chick shows up and within literally .05 seconds we all know why she's there. She might as well have been wearing a t shirt. A previous poster called her generic and I felt the same way. Usually this show takes a million years to show us anything so it was off putting to watch the interactions between the two of them because it was all so fast and obvious. Just the last episode Rick was punching people and force feeding them applesauce out of paranoia. Now he's letting a strange person stand behind him with a pair of scissors.

 

I'm not a shipper, but I wouldn't mind seeing Rick find someone but I feel like the whoever the character is who is 'the one' has to be around for a while and kind of develop into that role. I don't like how Jessie seems to have been shoehorned in to fill this role instead of us getting to know her character first and then later we see what happens as far as pairing up goes. I've also always noticed that Rick still wears his wedding ring. Not that there's any reason he wouldn't, but it seems like he still considers himself very much married.

 

Anyway, I think the ASZhats are for the most part good people; that the threat will come from the outside; and that threat will most definitely be the Wolf People that devastated Noah's town. I really hate that they skipped over the community building portion of their time in the prison so I hope we get to see more of that type of thing here. We don't really need a villain right now. It will be interesting to see CDB try to assimilate where they aren't the people in charge.

 

I agree that the confrontation between Glenn and D-Bag was orchestrated. After Glenn killed the walker, didn't D-Bag say something like 'i told you not to kill it, that's what I said' or something like that?. I feel like our people are being tested just to see how much they can be controlled. I don't think it's necessarily with malicious intent, but I don't think the ASZhats want to cede too much authority either. But I also agree that CDB is testing, too. Going with the flow and honestly trying to assimilate but in no way letting their guard down. They know they're going to be running this place one day, one way or another. I think it's going to mean something that Rick said some variation of "you don't know me" to at least three different people if I recall correctly. 

 

In the last scene when Rick makes his declaration about taking the town if need be, the first thing I thought was that I hope CDB checked that house thoroughly for recording devices. They already know that Aaron was listening to and spying on them when they weren't even in Alexandria yet. What makes them feel so safe that they wouldn't be listening to them now? 

[Raven1707]

I can see them taking over; I just am cautious about the part with "losing 4 people last week."

 

It isn't as if they have hundreds of people in ASZ; losing 4 people in one week is a lot and even at the prison our gang would be devastated. But it doesn't seem as though anyone is in mourning at ASZ, even though it's 4 dead and it just happened a few days ago?

 

Here's the dialogue in question, which seems to indicate it's been longer than a few days or even a week:

 

 

Aiden: We’ve been increasing our radius mile by mile, spreading in a semi-circle around the town.

Nicholas: We’ve made it 53 miles out so far.

Aiden: We break into two groups when we step outside our vehicle. If shit hits, we fire a flare. One group gets the other.

Noah: Good system.

Aiden: It is. Still, you’re standing here because we lost four people last month.

Glenn: What happened?

Aiden: We were on a run, roamers came out, they didn’t follow the system.

Nicholas: They were good people.

Aiden: They were. They were just...scared. Look, I can be a hard-ass. And I know I’m a douche-bag. Someone’s got to call the ball around here and that someone is me. If you’re on this crew, you do exactly as I say.

 

(I included that last bit of dialogue from Aiden because I am always amused by understatement.)

[Dodginblue]

 

I've been trying to figure out why the introduction of Jessie is irritating me. It's not the idea of a love interest for Rick - I'm one of the ones who prefers to watch relationship and 'people' stories over big explosions and action, so I wouldn't mind it. I think it's just the cliched way this chick shows up and within literally .05 seconds we all know why she's there. She might as well have been wearing a t shirt. A previous poster called her generic and I felt the same way. Usually this show takes a million years to show us anything so it was off putting to watch the interactions between the two of them because it was all so fast and obvious. Just the last episode Rick was punching people and force feeding them applesauce out of paranoia. Now he's letting a strange person stand behind him with a pair of scissors.

 

 

I'm sure the show isn't going to explore this but she struck me as a good example of how a character would be who hasn't really had to experience what the ZA world is truly like and I wonder how the women characters from CDB would react to her.   Not that we know anything about her yet, which goes to your point about how quickly she's been introduced and what seems like for obvious purposes, so maybe she's suffered horrific losses and we just don't know it yet.  But they're presentng her as someone who's been in a safe place for quite awhile now, someone who's been able to shower regularly and keep her hair cut and can find time to work on art and play with her kids.  

 

And the CDB women have been out on the road losing everyone they've ever cared about, having to kill and face almost being killed themselves over and over and they sure haven't had the time or a place for warm baths and a nice cup of tea while they work on some embroidery or whatever.  I can't imagine they would feel warm and fuzzy towards her.  Not that they should resent her just for having an easier time of it, that's just the luck of the draw, but to have her quickly become some important character that has a key role in things.   

[kikismom]

 

  At the very least, if she had plans to break up the team, she'd be enacting plans to break up the team by either dividing them or going around them.

 

If so, good for her. It seems like a good, if not risk-free way of testing how newcomers deal with conflict. 

 

   If the neighbour offers to sit for Judith, Rick is capable of saying no, and his people are capable of saying no to jobs that leave them all unavailable to look after her.

 

Camp Dinner Bell are all together. They aren't looking for a hypothetical secret meet-up point. They are still sleeping in the same room and will eventually divide between two adjacent houses. Any separation is at their own discretion and they've already been given access to the armoury. I'm still side-eying the problem Rick had with that gun, but I'm also side-eying Rick for not ensuring himself that it was loaded. All it takes is one person to be scope out the armoury, enter it, and give a signal for things to go in their favour.

She is breaking them up. Sasha will be at the med clinic, Carol will be the old folks caregiver, Abraham is going to work on construction (deleted scenes discussed openly) Rick and Michonne constables, pantry, solar power, etc. They aren't going to be together.

 

I didn't feel it was a risk-free way to see how people deal with conflict. They still have their knives. Daryl or Glenn could be crazy and stab her son. They could be killed for that but if you are running a camp and you want to test complete strangers, starting a fight while they still carry weapons isn't something I'd copy.

 

When is Rick capable of saying no? When are any of them capable of refusing jobs they don't want or choosing their schedule because they'd prefer baby-sitting. I missed any statement that it was up to them. I did hear Deanna say she was choosing their jobs for them...and they weren't ever even told what the possible choices were. How is Rick going to be the constable except he stays home or carries the baby all day?

 

What separation is at their discretion? Deanna checked on them the first night and said okay to staying together then but separate houses after that. She has not given them any discretion about where they are all day.

How is someone going to be in the armory and give a signal and Abe at the construction site and Sasha in the doctors office and so on going to get the signal and all head for the armory and not be stopped?

 

Different theories make the forum go round! :-)

Edited March 6, 2015 by kikismom

[BrokenRemote]

All I can say is that y'all are the most impressively paranoid folks I've ever met. You will all do fine when the zombies hit the fan.

[kikismom]

Thanks Raven! I thought for losing 4 in a week they were awful copacetic about it; a month sounds more reasonable.

 

Someone’s got to call the ball around here and that someone is me.

So they give the Tom Cruiseish guy a Tom Cruise line (Top Gun). Either the writers are winking at us or they really are making it part of his persona. Which is weird.

Edited March 6, 2015 by kikismom

[missy jo]

To be clear, I don't think CDB will be back on the road in 24 hours or anything.

 

 

My first thought when I saw the episode was, "I hope they'll at least stick around long enough to get laid!" But then again, I'm shallow like that.

[Raven1707]

I agree that the confrontation between Glenn and D-Bag was orchestrated. After Glenn killed the walker, didn't D-Bag say something like 'i told you not to kill it, that's what I said' or something like that?

 

 

Here's the dialogue from that:

 

Aiden: It took down one of our friends. It’s nearby, we’re not letting it go.

Nicholas: (whistles again and claps) Hey!

(Walker staggers toward Aiden)

Nicholas: Hey, over here. Come on. Come on. Hey, come on. Come at me.

(The others watch in disbelief and Noah draws his gun)

Nicholas: No, don’t touch it.

Aiden: The rest of you back off.

Nicholas: Come on. Come on. Come on now. Come on!

(Aiden pulls the walker’s arms behind it and tries to chain it. Tara approaches with a knife.)

Nicholas: Get him.

Aiden: (Having trouble) Damn it.

(Walker turns to face Aiden and he shoves it away, towards Tara, who grabs onto it but isn’t in position to stab it)

Aiden: No, hold on to it!

(Tara peels the skin off the walker’s back and chest, but is struggling. Glenn comes in from the side and stabs it in the head)

Aiden: What the hell?

Tara: Yeah, what the hell?

Glenn: You almost got her killed!

Aiden: I told you all to stay back! I told you to listen to every damn thing I said! I told you that.

[kikismom]

All I can say is that y'all are the most impressively paranoid folks I've ever met. You will all do fine when the zombies hit the fan.

Hell yeah! I want to stay alive, I'm not going to trust any pep talk from Rebecca of WIllowbrook Farm!   (Deanna)

Edited March 6, 2015 by kikismom

[Raven1707]

Wasn't it Sunnybrook Farm?

All I can say is that y'all are the most impressively paranoid folks I've ever met.

 

It's like a master class!

[kikismom]

Wasn't it Sunnybrook Farm?

Oh dear.

 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCYQtwIwAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dk_sYn8DnlH4&ei=Ygr5VLHoHYy-ggTUqYGwDQ&usg=AFQjCNFX-nGwPdDATTOF9amC8njBtIDk0w&sig2=k6UZdSlInbKHxjsCNMyVyg&bvm=bv.87611401,d.eXY

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willowbrook_State_School

 

Sometimes I make a play on words that not everyone is dialed in to.

Edited March 6, 2015 by kikismom

[mandolin]

What does Aiden say right before Tara says, "I don't actually..." right before they go on the run?

[minamurray78]

When is Rick capable of saying no? When are any of them capable of refusing jobs they don't want or choosing their schedule because they'd prefer baby-sitting. I missed any statement that it was up to them. I did hear Deanna say she was choosing their jobs for them...and they weren't ever even told what the possible choices were. How is Rick going to be the constable except he stays home or carries the baby all day?

 

 

Well, to be fair, we didn't get to see the moment Deanna made those offers, whether she ordered them to accept those jobs or else. In Carol's interview, she is asked where does she think she'd fit in, and Carol asks to be involved in the community. It's possible she asked that to all of them, and then found them possitions according to their answers. They wouldn't expect to just sit on their asses indefinitely holed up in the house.

Wait actually, when she offers Rick & Michonne the jobs as constables, she does ask them "would you accept?".

 

What separation is at their discretion? Deanna checked on them the first night and said okay to staying together then but separate houses after that.

I can't remember that part.

But it's on their third night when Rick, Daryl and Carol have their little pow wow on the porch, and Rick says he thinks it´s safe to sleep in their own homes, settle in.

 

ETA: Aidan's a real douche, but I just remembered the scene when Noah told him his dad hadn't made it, and he seemed sincere when he said he was sorry.

 

I don't know; if the whole town is in on it, seems like it's a hell of a long con.

Edited March 6, 2015 by minamurray78

[editorgrrl]

What does Aiden say right before Tara says, "I don't actually..." right before they go on the run?

"Just a dry run. Show you the terrain outside the walls, see how you do. Weigh each other's sack a little, you know?"

[mandolin]

Heh, I thought he said something about getting sacks wet. Either way...

[Raven1707]

What separation is at their discretion? Deanna checked on them the first night and said okay to staying together then but separate houses after that.

 

Since minamurray78 asked, I thought I'd go ahead and post the dialogue. (Yes, I transcribed the entire episode.)

 

 

(Knocking at the door, Rick answers)

Deanna: Rick, I– Wow. I didn’t know what was under there. Listen, I don’t mean to interrupt. I just wanted to stop by and see how you all were settling. (Realizes everyone is in the same room) Oh my. Staying together. Smart.

Rick: No one said we couldn’t.

Deanna: You said you’re a family. That’s what you said. Absolutely amazing to me how people with completely different backgrounds and nothing in common can become that. Don’t you think?

Rick: Everybody said you gave them jobs.

Deanna: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Part of this place. Looks like the communists won after all.

Rick: Well, you didn’t give me one.

Deanna: I have. I just haven’t told you yet. Same with Michonne. I’m closing in on something for Sasha. And I’m just trying to figure Mr. Dixon out, but I will. (To Rick) You look good.

Sometimes I make a play on words that not everyone is dialed in to.

 

Perhaps a tiny bit obscure? But then, you know the room better than I do...I'm a newbie.

[kikismom]

Perhaps a tiny bit obscure? But then, you know the room better than I do...I'm a newbie.

If you took Psych 101 in college you know it, or if you watch Will and Grace!  (but I'm drunk posting tonight, so I've been all over the map. Hence the hazy memory. :-D)

[morgankobi]

So I think it would be safe to assume that when the scouting party breaks into two groups, they would be even. If four people were lost because they didn't follow the plan, I would then assume they didn't send up a flare when in trouble (there aren't many steps to the plan to break). If the group is split-up into two, it's probably unlikely that the groups are together (hence the need for flares). I would then guess that only one of the groups was attacked and lost four people. If that's true, where are the other two who would have been with Douchey and The Bandit?

 

Or, four people is their normal total number and they have lost two people, twice.

 

(Am I acting paranoid? Did someone say I'm paranoid? Who thinks I'm paranoid?)

Edited March 6, 2015 by morgankobi

[morgankobi]

ahem...

MSNBC: Alaska Republican Rep. Don Young ... suggested during a hearing Thursday in Washington, D.C. that wolves could solve an area’s “homeless problem,” the Associated Press reported. “I’d introduce ‘em in your district, you wouldn’t have a homeless problem anymore,” Young said, responding to those fighting to protect the gray wolf in the continental U.S. Young claimed the wolf’s advocates don’t live in areas populated by the predatory carnivore.

 

 

And who is suggesting using wolves on people? A POLITICIAN! (I see you, Deanna.)

So unfair.

[RedheadZombie]

I didn't laugh quite as much this week:

http://m.imgur.com/a/kKWns (Photo recap)

 

Usually I think these are hilarious, but I didn't think this one was funny.  And WTF with Michonne saying, "Ya wanna see how we handle things in the ghetto?".   Nothing about Michonne is ghetto.  She (apparently) was an attorney, she lived in a upscale home, she seemed cultured, and owns and knows how to handle a katana.  I'm not going to use the R word, but I found it a little offensive.

[Yolapukka]

 

She is breaking them up. Sasha will be at the med clinic, Carol will be the old folks caregiver, Abraham is going to work on construction (deleted scenes discussed openly) Rick and Michonne constables, pantry, solar power, etc. They aren't going to be together.

 

I'm skeptical of the notion that jobs will be so time-consuming that they will add up to all of them being separated the bulk of the time. especially in a community where the residents can support the elderly and spend time making sculptures with their kids. Nor has it been stated at any point that Rick and Michonne will be expected to stay separate while on patrol, so it's kind of a leap that it would involve splitting them up. Just as the Dr is always the Dr, so too would they always be on duty. I'm sure both would make patrols at random times, separately or together, and I'm also sure that Alexandria already has watch duty assignments for most of the able-bodied adults. They are constables, their function is to deal with disputes, transgressions and wrongdoing, not punch the clock and show up for set shifts to wander the streets or stare into the distance.

 

 

I didn't feel it was a risk-free way to see how people deal with conflict. They still have their knives. Daryl or Glenn could be crazy and stab her son. They could be killed for that but if you are running a camp and you want to test complete strangers, starting a fight while they still carry weapons isn't something I'd copy.

 

I didn't feel it was risk free either, which is why I said it was good, if not risk-free. Perhaps my wording could have been clearer,  I was saying that as a test it was a good idea but the execution was not free of risk.  If it really was all a staged act, then there were more than likely snipers ready to take out Rick's people if it went badly wrong. Whatever was or wasn't supposed to happen on the supply run, Aidan was well inside the gates in an open area near a wall when he threw the punch at Glenn. That aside, if there was an elaborate plan to take out Rick and the stronger members of his group, that would have been a good time to do so

 

When is Rick capable of saying no? When are any of them capable of refusing jobs they don't want or choosing their schedule because they'd prefer baby-sitting. I missed any statement that it was up to them. I did hear Deanna say she was choosing their jobs for them.

 

When isn't Rick capable of saying no?  He'll listen to the consul of others but he still makes a decision in connection to that. The care of a baby is a non-negotiable, if CDB says they are the only ones to act as caregivers to Judith then, that's what happens. I missed the part where they were told they had no choice. They were told they had jobs and accepted their assignments, if they'd had reasonable objections, including an unwillingness to be isolated from one another, they would have made them.  Glenn Tara and Noah were together, armed and the three of them were with two Alexandrites. Most of CDB have jobs, but not all of them do, to the best of my knowledge. What is Daryl's job? Head fly-catcher? 

 

 

What separation is at their discretion? Deanna checked on them the first night and said okay to staying together then but separate houses after that.

 

I think this is your interpretation of the dialogue, but it was not said in such clear, explicit terms and it isn't how I would interpret what was said.

 

 

How is someone going to be in the armoury and give a signal and Abe at the construction site and Sasha in the doctors office and so on going to get the signal and all head for the armoury and not be stopped?

 

 

The part about the armoury is not a specific theory I have about how CDB are going to take over, the point I'm making is about the glaring flaws in the overall security of Alexandria and how it easy it would be to have the inclusion of CBD blow up in Deanna's face. If they were planning to take the armoury, someone could show up wanting a weapon to do some early-morning hunting while people have not yet left for work.  There are a lot of ways they could make a play for power and I don't think any of them would be scuttled due to where people have been assigned work in that small compound including whether Abraham is working construction within or outside of those walls. Since all the houses appear to be in excellent condition, let's hope he's demolishing some of the derelict buildings just beyond the fence, putting up additional barriers or sealing off the taller buildings that overlook the community.I think that would address the problems which they are most likely to face, which to me do not include the probability that Deanna is playing some sort of game of psycho-politics. I think the part that is too good to be true is the notion that this place will remain safe just because they have a wall. I thought it was kind of telling that their word for the walkers was wanderers.

 

Also, nitpick;  I don't think it's Sasha working at the doctors office, I think that was Maggie.

Edited March 6, 2015 by yuggapukka

[editorgrrl]

WTF with Michonne saying, "Ya wanna see how we handle things in the ghetto?" Nothing about Michonne is ghetto. She (apparently) was an attorney, she lived in a upscale home, she seemed cultured, and owns and knows how to handle a katana. I'm not going to use the R word, but I found it a little offensive.

Andrea was a lawyer. We don't know Michonne's occupation. But you're right about "ghetto."

Edited March 6, 2015 by editorgrrl

[AngelaHunter]

Re: Aidan saying he's a douchebag is, to me, more like, "Yeah, I'm a douchebag but I'm the Head Honcho Douchebag so all YOU douches better say "How high?" when I tell you to jump. All of which makes him a double douchebag.

[Yolapukka]

I'm wondering about Deanna's husband the professor of architecture, the one who brilliantly designed that awesome wall with the braces on the outside. is it possible he was big old con-artist with fake-ass qualifications  a secret Ponzi scheme and maybe even a second now undead family? Maybe the jig was up when Deanna saw that dummass wall and she dropkicked him out of there and told him to go join his damn undead second family if he couldn't figure out which side to brace on a wall made out of unused shopping centre parts. Or maybe he really was a professor of architecture  and he despised the aesthetics of bracing on the inside but liked the lines they made on the outside, sort of the same thinking that results in gorgeous buildings that win design prizes but have leaky roofs.

 

There's got to be some explanation as to why that wall looks so arse-backwards. 

 

It bugs me.

 

A lot.