S02.E13: The Deer Hunter

[formerlyfreedom]

When Liz learns of a serial killer known as "The Deer Hunter" who tracks his victims like prey, Red helps the task force search for the killer. Meanwhile, the local DC police suspect the city Harbormaster was murdered as Liz struggles to keep her secret from unraveling.

 

 

 

[ottoDbusdriver]

Professor Keen. Teaching graduate students.  Seriously ?  And since when ?  And where -- FBI grad school ? University of Phoenix seems more appropriate.

 

Big surprise -- Lizzie gets captured.  Again.  Is this going to happen every episode ?

 

Of course the killer doesn't tie up Lizzie's legs and Lizzie nearly kills her.  WTF ?

 

And Red fixes it so that Lizzie gets off scot-free on the Harbormaster's death.  So that whole sub-plot was just a complete waste of time.

[buttersister]

Is it a bad sign that I was on the phone for 90% of the episode? Lizzie, I'll tell you what--I don't care about you anymore. (Let's be fair, I never did.) Oh, Red, go around the world and have adventures without the FBI. I'd watch that. Previews had me all WTF? now all lead characters of every show are being auctioned off? (And no cracks about "great minds" I don't think that's exactly what's at work here.)

[thuganomics85]

I did like seeing Amanda Plummer as the Blacklister, although while her actions normally would have been creepy as hell, it hilarious still ain't go nothing on the character she played on Hannibal last year.  Too bad Red was off doing his own thing, because I think Plummer and James Spader would have been fun together.

 

So, we finally see Lizzie do some of that "profiling" stuff.  Can't say I was impressed.  She was lucky as hell Red brought up the idea that maybe it was a woman, and then Ressler actually followed through with it.  But, I can figure out why it took them this long to realize the bite marks were different sizes.  They really need a Will Graham (Hannibal) in here.

 

Red was bored, so he trolled Aram about losing his hair, which freaked him out, until Samar told his he's sexy either way.  I actually like both of these character, but is this really the best they can come up with?

 

This Fulcrum stuff better go somewhere.  We never saw the guy's face that Red was trying to meet, but I saw character actor great, Peter McRobbie's name in the credits, so I wonder if that was him.

 

Red bails Lizzie out over the Harbormaster's death.  Lame.

[Danielg342]

This is the first time I can say I actually enjoyed Elizabeth Keen. I realize mileage will vary immensely, but I thought Meghan Boone knocked it out of the park with an increasingly varied and loving erratic performance.

We've said for a while that Lizzie's got criminal tendencies. Right there, dealing with Mrs. Deer Hunter, we saw that. Lizzie was wonderful fooling her into thinking she had pity for Mrs. Deer Hunter, and then mocking her for her altruism. Furthermore, not only did Lizzie downright enjoy exposing Mrs. Deer Hunter for enjoying her savagery, Lizzie sounded like she too would very much enjoy such savagery herself, something she's shown on a number of different occassions (like with the victims of The Good Samaritan Killer).

Gosh, Lizzie was downright creepy...and I loved it.

I think that was what saved this episode from being simply The Blacklist: Criminal Minds Edition because- other than the obvious "Sweeps Month" shock value of seeing Mrs. Deer Hunter take a bite out of the victims' livers (which would leave DNA that no one seemed to account for)- this was pretty much your typical CM episode (I mean, there was even some actual profiling in this one). All that we were missing was Garcia's quirky computer, Reid's quirky stats, Morgan kicking down doors, Rossi and Prentiss being smartasses, Hotch giving the UnSub a death glare and JJ reassuring the public they have The Deer Hunter cornered and you have an episode I'm sure Edward Allen Bernero would have been proud to write.

(I don't care that the current CM cast is much different than what I described- that's the team I like so I'm sticking with that)

As for the rest of the episode, I really didn't find too many highlights. Well, Aram continues to impress me, seeing him worry about his hair, being gleeful that Red said his last name right and being taken aback when Samar Navabi called him sexy (as long as he doesn't become fat- prompting him to look at his belly). It's been a while since Aram stole the show but tonight he was magnificent.

Then, Red...this might be a first in that I thought he was a bit player in his own show, but good on James Spader for shunning the spotlight so that Creepy Liz can take centre stage. Anyway...I thought his little side story with the caller was boring and rather pointless- seeing that trail of blood at the end was rather predictable. It was nice of him to get Samuel Alecco to turn on the Detective and save Lizzie- he didn't have to (presumably because he could still "use" Lizzie in jail), and it was great that Lizzie snarks at him being so fatherly towards her by quipping that she would get her "phone privileges taken away". Red doesn't always do the best to show that he cares but he did tonight.

All in all, tonight was very much about Lizzie and how this could be a turning point. Like it or not, Lizzie's got blood on her hands, so there's no turning back, and if this is the start of her descent to becoming one of the world's more dangerous killers, this could be one heck of a ride. Buckle up!

[missbonnie]

Am I the only one who upon seeing Ms. Deer Hunter thought, "No capes!" per Edna Mode? As far as the episode goes, I am still not loving it. I don't know how we go from the great episode after the Super Bowl to this mess in such a short time. Holding out hope that next week will be better.

On a side note, Spader was on Jimmy Fallon tonight and mentioned that he was friends with JFK Jr. I had no idea, I was surprised he was there given the fact that he's not big on interviews. I was hoping it was a surprise to promote Age of Ultron,but it was good all the same.

[Heatsja]

Loved Red's Jedi mind trick on Aram.

 

Aram:  I'll need a warrant

Red:  You don't need a warrant

Aram:  I don't need a warrant

 

hehe.   

[Primetimer]

Why exactly is a bow-and-arrow-toting serial killer on The Blacklist? Even the task force is stumped!

Read the story

[Julia]

So, wait, this week's lister is a former victimized wife who discovered that her husband was really a psycho killer with a secret life and then rationalized killing people herself for the greater good? Well, holy labored parallels with the main plot, Batman. Good thing Lizzie dredged up the fortitude to protect society by walking away from her little murder. And hey, helluva moral epiphany there, Ressler.

 

Good god, these writers are bad. 

[Danielg342]

Not to get all feminist or anything, but if you can think of a TV drama where this kind of job ineptitude is exhibited by a male main character, then I'll eat Red's hat.

Gotham's Jim Gordon is routinely and soundly criticized for having every clue he's gained handed to him. Spencer Reid of Criminal Minds gets this treatment in some episodes, depending on the writer (in fact, lately, many episodes have the CM investigators- all of them, male and female, unless it's JJ- dumber than a brick). Even Elementary did this a few times to Sherlock Holmes.

Then we can get to this series and it's plainly obvious that Ressler is just as bright as Lizzie is. In fact, the only one with a brain in the FBI it seems is Aram- the rest all get one-upped by Red.

I also think- though I think mileage varies- that Lizzie did very well in this case and contributed a lot (like how she rattled Mrs. Deer Hunter to make a move and bought herself enough time to get out of her own jam). So I really don't think the observation is really on the mark.

[shura]

If one decides to kill an FBI agent after knocking her out with a shovel, shouldn't there be a better way than hauling the unconscious body away, hoisting her up and making a mess of one's own basement? I mean, the shovel is still in your hand, why not use it again right then and there? Not as creepy, but efficient.

 

I like the detective investigating the harbor master murder, he seemed like a normal, three-dimensional person.

Edited February 27, 2015 by shura

[ottoDbusdriver]

Since Lizzie doesn't even know what the Fulcrum is, her saying that she has it is kind of ridiculous.  All she knows is that she has .... something.  I bet it's an espresso machine, or a snow cone maker, or maybe a water heater. </TrueLies>

 

From the recap:

 

Red tells Liz that The Deer Hunter is a lady, not a dude; then a student tells her the perpetrator of the last six kills isn't the Deer Hunter at all, but a copycat. So tell me, Agent Keen, what is it exactly that you do here?

 

This is spot on what's wrong with Lizzie -- if she had been studying 'The Deer Hunter' for years she would have noticed stuff like this.  If all the victims of the Deer Hunter had been large men (including the husband of the copycat), the bite marks on the livers would have shown a bigger difference than 2.8% on the last 6 victims, let alone how did Amanda Plummer's character ever hoist these heavy guys up into the air (because it didn't appear that she worked out).  Instead, Lizzie has basically just read the summary page at the front of the file but that's enough for her to be an instructor/professor.  Of course the one guy she calls on in class (blue shirt) is the guy that breaks into the FBI forensics lab.

 

The one major thing that bugged me about case was that the killings took place all over the country.  How exactly ?  Especially if the Deer Hunter stalked their victims for a long time, wouldn't the killer after taking the place of her husband had to have been away for long periods of time to do that.

 

Lizzie getting hit in the head with a shovel was such a poorly done scene -- it was such a surprise that Lizzie managed to completely turn her head around before being hit, when she realistically should have been hit in the face.

 

One correction to my prior post, Lizzie had her legs taped together at the ankles not once, but twice.  They were taped together when she woke up on the floor and then the killer taped them even further.  So how did Lizzie get her legs around the killer's neck ?  Because the killer conveniently got close enough to her in a fit of rage that allowed Lizzie to get the drop on her.  And since it looks like Lizzie has been regularly using her Thighmaster, she almost kills the killer but is stopped by Ressler.  Which is an opportune time for Lizzie to have a flashback of Tom killing the harbormaster and her being restrained.  Why exactly ?  Working out her frustrations maybe, but wouldn't she really have flashbacks of all the times she has been captured (because there have been so many) and was unable to do anything about it ?

 

I also like how before she jumps the killer, Lizzie's eyes are all weepy and there's snot dribbles coming out of her nose, but after Ressler stops Lizzie from killing the killer her eyes and nose are completely clear of any tears or snot.

 

I'm still trying to figure out why The Deer Hunter was even considered to be part of Red's Blacklist -- Red's never had dealings with him/her. It's just someone that Red has heard of.

 

Why was Lizzie stalking the cop before she met Red at the coffee shop ? WTF did that have to do with anything ?

 

ETA: Still no sign of Lizzie's dog this episode.  Who's walking the dog or feeding the dog when Lizzie is gone for such long stretches at a time ?

Edited February 27, 2015 by ottoDbusdriver

[Danielg342]

Why was Lizzie stalking the cop before she met Red at the coffee shop ? WTF did that have to do with anything ?

I believe Lizzie was going to confess before backing out at the last minute.

[ottoDbusdriver]

I believe Lizzie was going to confess before backing out at the last minute.

 

But how did she know that was the detective -- she had only spoken to him before ?  And how did she know that he would be coming out of that entrance at that time -- was it quitting time ?  Did Lizzie sit there all day waiting to catch a glimpse of him ?  Did seeing that the detective was basically a good person by helping that homeless man change her mind (since she wasn't really privy to their conversation, who knows what he was doing, he could have been buying him off to keep quiet about something).  Based on the fact it was dark out when she had her little discussion with Ressler about turning herself in and the scene with the detective was in broad daylight, she basically had a whole night to think about it.

[calipiano81]

How did Red find out about Lizzie's trouble with the detective/harbormaster situation in the first place? Did Ressler tell him?

I liked that Red didn't resort to violence to keep Samuel Alecco quiet...the bribe actually ended up being much more effective since it tapped into a brother's love.

Lizzie is not getting off scot-free just yet, based on the episode 2x15 description.

[saber5055]

So feel free to let me know if it tips the "ick" meter for you!

 

Naw, no "ick" in this episode. You already saw the liver-eating scene on the preview.

 

So Lizzie teaches an FBI class? What, Hugh Dancy wasn't available?

I did like seeing Amanda Plummer as the Blacklister, although while her actions normally would have been creepy as hell, it hilarious still ain't go nothing on the character she played on Hannibal last year.

 

 

The actress was SO familiar. What did she play on Hannibal? Maybe she was the one who said Lizzie should be teaching, to make up for Hugh still being on sabbatical.

 

Pretty funny that Lizzie was teaching a profiler class and got all the profile info wrong. Why am I not surprised?

 

Agree that when Lizzie was socked with the shovel, it was the perfect time to put the shovel to her neck and amputate, ala Walking Dead. Dragging her back to her lair ... the heck?

 

Then another soliloquy from the killer. I HATE that. So I was delighted when Lizzie said to STFU and just kill her. I was saying the same thing, freaking KILL LIZZIE. That would have been the best episode yet in this series.

 

Instead, Lizzie learned from Tom how to kill someone with your legs. Tom had his leg chains to help him kill Harbormaster. Not since Sayid on Lost has someone been able to snap someone's neck with legs. So for Lizzie to be able to strangle someone that way ... no, just NOT. Plus, as someone else said, her legs/feet were all ducktaped. So ... WTF? No way could she get Amanda between those thighs.

 

Plus, didn't Ms. Deer Hunter have a knife in her hand? 

 

This episode had two very exciting highlights for me. One, Lizzie is going to prison for the Harbormaster murder. Two, serial killer is going to gut her. Both of those great events got screwed up. So ... the heck. Back to Lizzie being on this show. DAY-um.

 

I kept thinking Red put something in Aram's hair, it was pretty bold of him ruffling his 'do up like that. But I guess he was just joshin' with him. 

 

Since Lizzie doesn't even know what the Fulcrum is, her saying that she has it is kind of ridiculous.  All she knows is that she has .... something.

 

 

How hilarious if she gives it to Red and he says, "So THAT'S where my drill-bit-socket connector has been. Thanks, Lizzie!"

 

I do like Lizzie in her stocking cap. So there's that.

 

But how did she know that was the detective -- she had only spoken to him before ?  And how did she know that he would be coming out of that entrance at that time -- was it quitting time ?

 

 

Otto, please! She's a PROFILER! She knows everything! (Plus Aram probably looked up his pic and office hours online.)

Edited February 27, 2015 by saber5055

[alias1]

This show is wash, rinse, repeat. Lizzie is kidnapped.  Lizzie is rescued.  She acts tough.  Red pulls strings in the background.  I'm really hoping she turns into a full blown psychopath.   Well, what I really hope is that they can find some writers to produce an interesting script. Maybe bringing Tom back next week will kick start something.  So far this season is is much worse than last year.

[thuganomics85]

 

The actress was SO familiar. What did she play on Hannibal? Maybe she was the one who said Lizzie should be teaching, to make up for Hugh still being on sabbatical.

She was in the episode Takiawase, where 

she played the killer who was using her victim's heads as bee hives.

 

 

Why was Lizzie stalking the cop before she met Red at the coffee shop ? WTF did that have to do with anything ?

Since they made a huge deal over him giving money to a homeless person and even find him a hotel, I think it was just a clumsy attempt to show what a "good" person he is, and Lizzie was suppose to feel guilt over how Red dicked him over, for her sake.  I guess I was suppose to care, but, really, why should I?

[Julia]

The actress was SO familiar. What did she play on Hannibal? Maybe she was the one who said Lizzie should be teaching, to make up for Hugh still being on sabbatical.

 

You might also remember her as Robin Williams' girlfriend in The Fisher King or the troubled nun in Agnes of God. She also had biggish roles in The World According to Garp and Pulp Fiction, and she was in the most recent Hunger Games movie.

 

I wonder if it's the James Spader connection that they get so many guest actors who were hot young stars in the late seventies and early eighties.

[ottoDbusdriver]

You might also remember her as Robin Williams' girlfriend in The Fisher King or the troubled nun in Agnes of God. She also had biggish roles in The World According to Garp and Pulp Fiction, and she was in the most recent Hunger Games movie.

 

I thought she was great with her quotable line as Honey Bunny in the restaurant scene that opened 'Pulp Fiction'.

Edited February 27, 2015 by ottoDbusdriver

[saber5055]

Thanks Thug and Julia for filling me in on why Ms. Deer Hunter was so familiar. Her voice is memorable. And Otto, are you going to make me watch Pulp Fiction again?

 

I wonder if it's the James Spader connection that they get so many guest actors who were hot young stars in the late seventies and early eighties.

 

 

Like back when Spader himself was hot, with a full head of hair like he told Aram he used to have? I still see him on a certain Seinfeld rerun.

[ottoDbusdriver]

And Otto, are you going to make me watch Pulp Fiction again?

 

@saber5055 -- here's the memorable line Amanda Plummer gave from her Pulp Fiction role (used spoiler tags because of NSFW language):

 

Any of you fucking pricks move, and I'll execute every motherfucking last one of ya!

Edited February 27, 2015 by ottoDbusdriver

[saber5055]

Ha ha! Thanks, Otto. I needed that. (I also need to rewatch PF, it's been years.) I wish she had said that to Lizzie ... and then carried through.

[Kelda Feegle]

Loved Red's Jedi mind trick on Aram.

 

Aram:  I'll need a warrant

Red:  You don't need a warrant

Aram:  I don't need a warrant

 

hehe.   

hahaha the OH and I turned to each other and said these are not the droids you're looking for simultaneously at this point

 

I must have missed the episode where Lizzie turned into a super profiling professor - snark - who got most of it wrong anyway

 

Nowehere near enough Red in this ep :-( 

 

I thought that Red would have gone to the Fulcrum meeting and have Denby sort out the witness stuff rather than the other way around.

[shura]

I must have missed the episode where Lizzie turned into a super profiling professor - snark - who got most of it wrong anyway

 

Nope, this was it. Why would she need a whole episode to turn into a professor? What, like it's hard. She's a PROFILER! It took her two seconds, right after the guy said "Action!" And her qualifications are not logic-based, apparently. I laughed and laughed when Red suggested that perhaps, just maybe, the Deer Hunter is a woman, and Lizzie offered a  brilliant and convincing rebuttal consisting of nothing more than "I disagree!" Disagree with what, that it cannot be ruled out that it's a woman? Disagree just because some serial killers with similar MO have been men? Those students are in good hands.

[saber5055]

I laughed and laughed when Red suggested that perhaps, just maybe, the Deer Hunter is a woman, and Lizzie offered a  brilliant and convincing rebuttal consisting of nothing more than "I disagree!"

 

 

I know, right? Then who was it that suggested they compare the bites on the livers? Can't remember. But isn't that something the FBI should have thought of AGES ago since Deer Hunter was such a famous serial killer Lizzie was teaching a *cough* profile class about him/her?

 

If Red ever teaches a class ... on anything ... I'm signing up.

[Julia]

I know, right? Then who was it that suggested they compare the bites on the livers? Can't remember. But isn't that something the FBI should have thought of AGES ago since Deer Hunter was such a famous serial killer Lizzie was teaching a *cough* profile class about him/her?

 

I have a lot of trouble believing that the actual FBI, the one where people are qualified for their jobs, doesn't routinely compare toothmarks on any evidence that contains toothmarks, let alone cannibalized entrails.

[cali1981]

This seemed like a filler episode so hopefully, with Tom's return, things will pick up again. I actually thought that Ressler made a pretty good argument against Lizzie's going to the cops and fessing up. He was right in his conviction that Lizzie's arrest would blow their entire operation sky high and that many lives might be lost as a result.  It was sort of the Mr. Spock (RIP Leonard Nimoy) mantra about the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few or of the one in a perverted kind of way.

[TwistedandBored]

I am really getting bored with current episodes. I am bored with the mystery and the current case of the week. Honestly, Red used to alleviate my boredom but even his scenes are getting boring lately. 

I thought this show would be on one mystery and then moved on to another but we have been on the same mystery for 2 seasons now. Lets move on from it should we?

 

If Red ever teaches a class ... on anything ... I'm signing up.

 

Me too!

[Biggie B]

Jack Bauer killed a guy with his thighs years ago - nothing new there.

[Julia]

Jack Bauer killed a guy with his thighs years ago - nothing new there.

 

I'm sure it goes further, but it goes back at least as far as Darryl Hannah in Bladerunner.

[Wynterwolf]

Murderous Thighs.

[Mom x 3]

Ha!  I love that Red nailed it when he told Lizzie she is afraid he would be done with her. 

If he's not her dad though, I'm wondering if there is a Severous Snape relationship going on, where he was in love with her mom.  He's gotta be her dad though.  He got a guy a frikkin' heart transplant to safe Lizzie.

[calipiano81]

I think it would be amazing and powerful if Red wasn't Lizzie's dad, but chose to do something so huge like buying off someone with a heart transplant (and everything else he's done) out of love and to protect her.

In fact, I think I would be disappointed if Red turned out to be her dad, because not only would he have lied to her (answering 'No' when Lizzie asked him), but then everything he's done for Lizzie was out of a familial obligation/expectation.

Edited March 3, 2015 by calipiano81

[betsyboo]

Murderous Thighs.

I both love and hate you for this. <day wasted.>

[saber5055]

Murderous Thighs ... it referenced my favorite, Sayid! I used to have killer thighs when I rode show jumpers and other horses every day. But I never thought of using the term "killer" literally.

 

Still, great link. Thanks.

 

I also agree Red should not be Lizzie's father. I want him to have other motives for keeping her safe, not a family-bond-boring one.

Edited March 5, 2015 by saber5055

[saber5055]

I do want to send Red to a chiropractor. That head tilt is starting to get on my nerves. Did Spader do that in Boston Legal, or is it strictly a Red affectation?

 

 

The Office reruns are on here late at night. I never watched that show, but I've have seen a couple lately because they are when Spader was on. And YES, he has EXACTLY the same mannerisms, expressions and voice inflections as on Blacklist. (He does have more hair, though.) All I can assume is this is the "real" Spader. All I remember of him from Boston Legal is smoking cigars with Shatner at the end.

 

I've seen the Seinfeld ep several times where he is the recovering alcoholic who won't apologize to George. He did not have any "Red" afflictions back then, but he was maybe 20-something so probably not set in his "most comfortable" acting style.

 

A compilation disk of Red's soliloquys  would be a hoot. Long, but a hoot.

[Guest]

These have been piling up on my DVR so I decided to watch one or two and remind myself why I don't run to them.  Now I recall- the writing is so bad and the acting isn't all that, either.  Lizzie's hair is stringy now, too.  I miss the wig.  

 

I liked that Red didn't resort to violence to keep Samuel Alecco quiet...the bribe actually ended up being much more effective since it tapped into a brother's love.

 

I was hoping Red was going to tell him either way his brother was getting a new heart.  Either the way it went down, or because Red would kill the twin if he refused to not implicate Liz, so his own heart would be donate-able.

I have a lot of trouble believing that the actual FBI, the one where people are qualified for their jobs, doesn't routinely compare toothmarks on any evidence that contains toothmarks, let alone cannibalized entrails.

That annoyed me.  Especially with the House-like light bulb moment for Ressler.  He's BITING an apple, he says the phrase "take a bite" and then WHAMMO- "Hey, we're the FBI, we can measure BITE MARKS!"  Maybe next week he'll discover DNA.

 

I also balked at a woman smacked in the face with a wooden cutting board dies immediately.  

 

And worse at little Amanda Plummer doing the perfect blind shovel smack at armed Liz to knock her out and then dragging her unconscious back to her lair through the city, with Ressler 5 seconds behind.  And inches of fresh snow to show her trail.  Heck, take her gun and shoot her in the head and run.  Or just run.  What was the purpose of taking her at all?  

 

And Lizzie teaching college.  Wasn't she fresh out of Quantico in season one?  

 

I liked Plummer better in Hannibal.