Spoilers & Speculation: Running Hot & Cold

[lurker22]

I saw this on reddit, and while I have no idea who the poster is or how he got the spoilers (so take everything with a boatload of salt), it would be fun if this turns out to be true.

Quote

I'm back for more spoilers. This time it's Arrow and LoT midseason spoilers

Take note that I didn't watch this episodes. I just skimmed through it. I don't have the motivation to watch the EPs like the Crisis on Earth-X since this have no hype :(

For Arrow (putting under spoiler tag since people here may not want to know them):

Spoiler

 

Curtis left Team Arrow. Don't know why. Didn't bother knowing

Thea is now awake

Rene is with her daughter again

Team Cayden James is shown. They currently have 6 members: Cayden James, Black Siren, Anatoly Knyazev, 2 other guys, one of them was the one talking to Black Siren in earlier episodes the other I don't know didnt watch like 4 eps prior to this, and lastly, Joseph Acevedo so I'm guessing this one is Richard Dragon

 

For LoT:

Snart is with the Legends

There is a guy called Beebo? Not sure if that's right

They're in a Viking settlement. Kinda looks like a Vikings episode

The annoying girl from the Time Bureau is with them

Jax gave a letter to younger Stein that have a note that says "Open this on Nov 28, 2017"

Stein doesn't want to accept it since it could change the future but Jax insisted

It is revealed that Rip is in the Time Bureau prison

Darhk is posing as Odin complete with a long hair. Nora is dressed like a Valkyrie. She's looks hot here

Sara wants to kill Dahrk alone since she's worried that everyone will die like Stein

They have a montage of different What-Ifs in defeating Dahrk. That shit is cute

In the end the only plan that succeeded is the one where they are all together

Not sure what happened to Darhk family. Probably escaped

Jax left the Legends

They have a goodbye/christmas dinner for Jax. Same as last season's mid season finale

MOTHERFUCKING CONSTANTINE APPEARS IN THE DARK CORNER OF THE WAVERIDER

Constantine is asking Sara for a favor since technically he saved her life in Arrow S4

There is a demon(?) that is possessing a little girl and that said demon knows Sara. Probably someone she met when she died.

END--

I don't think Jax leaving is permanent. It would make sense he would want to leave for a while if Stein is dead. But maybe Stein isn't really dead if Jax's letter told him how to avoid death, since that's the day the Flash/Legends crossover episodes air.

Constantine asking Sara for help! I always imagined it was Sara asking Constantine for help with Darhk, so it would be a surprising twist for me if Constantine needed Sara's help with an exorcism. And the bonus is we get to find out what happened when she died.

Edited November 25, 2017 by lurker22

[Sakura12]

I would love Sara anachronism to be a demon she met when she was dead. Mostly to learn more about where she was.

I also like if those are true that Constantine contacts Sara.  

[Miss Dee]

The news that Jax might be leaving just...hit me straight in the gut. I had no idea how fond I was of that character until I read it. Too soon.

I really hope you're all right about this being temporary.

[Featherhat]

I doubt Jax is leaving for good. It's probably just temporary for the fallout of the crossover and a MSF cliffhanger. Apart from anything else I don't think they'd have gone to the trouble of uncoupling Firestorm if FD was leaving as well. 

Constantine being the one to contact Sara is interesting. I hope they have a good storyline between them, we saw nothing of them together in the Arrow episode where she's resurrected, possibly because both their schedules were so tight and yes I'd like to know more about exactly where she was when she was dead. 

[tennisgurl]

I accidentally stumbled upon a "Jax leaves" spoiler, and it really hurt to read. I swear, this better be a temporary thing, or I am going to be extremely upset. And I hate being upset at Legends! I am very comfortable being upset with the other shows, but this show has a special place in my heart, and I dont want it on my List. 

[Sakura12]

I do think Jax will need some time to mourn Stein, they were psychically bonded for 3 years. With him gone it probably feels like he lost part of himself as well. I think he will back after the Constantine episodes. 

[johntfs]

I wonder if we'll have the Legends' bit of the crossover being them going back to 1940s Earth-X and preventing them from getting the A-bomb.  With the added touch of Mick roasting Hitler alive.

[tofutan]

Don't like the sound of this ... 

[Sakura12]

That's too bad, I figured Jax would be gone because they have to pay for Constantine.

Would Victor really leave knowing Franz would lose his job too? Hopefully they talked about it. 

[johntfs]

4 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

That's too bad, I figured Jax would be gone because they have to pay for Constantine.

Would Victor really leave knowing Franz would lose his job too? Hopefully they talked about it. 

I'd assume that Franz is getting paid as a regular for the whole season like Victor Garber is.  Maybe he'll come back later on this season or next season.  Or show up on one of the other shows.

[Lady Calypso]

What episode are they filming now? 13? 14? I have hope that Jax will be back on the ship at the end of the season. It would be a real shame if he just left because of Stein's death. I don't begrudge him for taking more than a couple of episodes off in order for the character to mourn. He's been part of Firestorm for years. He's literally lost a part of him and that won't be easy to overcome. I have some confidence, or at least hope, that Jax will come back to the ship when he fully processes his grief and remembers that Stein wanted him to be on the ship and to be happy. 

Which does seem like Constantine's recurring status is to temporarily replace Jax's role on the team, especially with them being down two members. 

Edited November 30, 2017 by Lady Calypso
wanted not wants because Stein is gone *sobs*

[Starfish35]

I hope he comes back eventually too.

I have no idea what episode they're shooting now though.  They were supposed to be done with 310 on Nov. 6, so....13? Maybe?  I'm just guessing here.

[kismet]

I don't have a strong desire to keep or lose Jax... The writers really struggle with making him part of the main action. If he went to the Flash, which is the only logical destination, I would not be upset.

What I would be upset is if LoT drops Jax and replaces him with another white dude. I'm not saying we need to have a specific number of POC in the show. But certainly, permanently dropping the one Black man on the show because his White counterpart left for Broadway, does not speak well for the show.

I honestly hope the show is just finding a way to let Jax grieve properly and write a way for Firestorm to come back solo. I'm not a comic fan, but there must be some precedence of Firestorm as a solo operator. And if not, then just write it LoT - the Flarrowverse could care less about comic canon for a lot of other reasons.

[darkestboy]

Constantine is just there for episodes 9 and 10 and isn't Citizen Cold around for the same episodes as well?

Jax will probably be back after 3x11 or 3x12 then, I hope.

[Sakura12]

I think they are finishing up ep 12 now called "The Curse of the Earth Totem" 

[Miss Dee]

They must have to resurrect the fire totem somehow. That would be a good time for Jax to return.

[Starfish35]

If I remember correctly (and I might not), per the Vixen animated series, the fire totem is in the Detroit museum.  But of course that doesn't rule out Darhk and Co. retrieving it from that location.

4 hours ago, darkestboy said:

Constantine is just there for episodes 9 and 10 and isn't Citizen Cold around for the same episodes as well?

Yeah I don't think Snart is there past 10.  I'm still unclear as to whether Constantine is there for 9 and 10, or for 10 and 11.

4 hours ago, darkestboy said:

Jax will probably be back after 3x11 or 3x12 then, I hope.

I hope so too.  

Edited November 30, 2017 by Starfish35

[johntfs]

27 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Yeah I don't think Snart is there past 10.  I'm still unclear as to whether Constantine is there for 9 and 10, or for 10 and 11.

I think Constantine shows up at the tail end of 9 and is there for all of 10.  I don't think he's there after 10.  At least that's all the episodes IMDB lists him being in so far.

Snart isn't even listed as being in anything past 8 yet.

Both Jax and Stein are listed as being in every episode through the end of Season 3 even though we know that Victor Garber will almost certainly not appear in any episode past 9.

It's possible that Jax actually leaves or is removed from the team (at least temporarily) because of whatever he does to attempt to alter time to save Stein.

I also notice that Ava Sharpe is supposed to appear in episode 9.  Oh lord, I really don't want to end up trading Jax for Ava...

On the other hand, if she sticks around for episode 10, that means she'll likely get to meet (and get totally freaked out by) John Constantine, so that might be worth it.

Meanwhile, if Snart leaves after episode 10, it could be due to exposure to John Constantine.  This Snart seems to be a bit of a goody-goody.  Proximity to John Constantine is likely to deeply fuck with his moral code and sanity.  I actually fear for Ray in that case.

Edited November 30, 2017 by johntfs

[Sakura12]

Ava is in episode 10 from the pics I've seen. Constantine does seem to only be there for the tail end of 9 and the mid season premiere ep 10 in Feb. 

I do think Snart is done after episode 9. He probably leaves after the Christmas/goodbye party for Jax, then Constantine shows up asking for Sara's help with a demon. 

[johntfs]

IMDB has Ava listed as showing up on LoT through episode 13, so that's the next 5 episode.  Meanwhile Rip is supposed to show up for episode 9 and then not show back up until episode 17.  Eleanor Darhk will be here for 9 and 10, skip 11 and then be back for 12 and 13.  God, 2018 can't get here fast enough.

[tofutan]

There are pics from 10? I must have missed those. 

Somebody who claims to have seen 9 says that Constantine shows up at the very end of it. 

[Sakura12]

5 hours ago, tofutan said:

There are pics from 10? I must have missed those. 

Somebody who claims to have seen 9 says that Constantine shows up at the very end of it. 

The post at the top of the page has the rumored spoilers for that. 

Caity posted what looks like episode 10 on Twitter and Instagram. 

[Starfish35]

Maisie posted another BTS pic on Instagram from the pirates episode.

[tofutan]

Any theory on the new character who is joining the Legends that Caity was talking about? Sorry for the tumblr link but I couldn't find it anywhere else. 

Edited December 5, 2017 by tofutan

[Sakura12]

We've been discussing it in Media and Behind the Scenes. 

My guess is Wally since Caity and Keiynan Lonsdale have been retweeting each other on twitter recently. Other's think she's talking about Leo, which for me that has no reason to be a secret. We saw Leo stay behind in the crossover. 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Sakura12

[lurker22]

I wonder if a speedster joins the team, would that make the other non-metahumans irrelevant? Or are they going to find ways for him to lose his superspeed, like they did with Firestorm?

[Sakura12]

I think this tweet kind of confirms it's Wally.  Barry has other people with powers on his team so I don't think it will make anyone irrelevant. They all have different uses and most of the time they don't need to run anywhere, most of the time the battle is right in front of them. Wally could be fighting Grodd while the rest have to deal with Kuasa and Nora. 

[Miss Dee]

Well, I for one am really pleases to hear this. I love Wally and think he would be well served by the LoT writers.

This does not, however, mean I don't want Jax back too, writers! You can Coach/Winston up the Waverider, you know!

[Starfish35]

I don't know Wally very well, since I stopped watching The Flash at the end of season two, and have only watched the crossovers since then.  Still, he might be a fun addition,  and maybe his little cameo in the first episode of the season was a foreshadowing  of this.

That said, I'm not at all interested in replacing Jax with him.  If we can have them both, wonderful!  But no to Jax leaving for good. :(

[tarotx]

I'm cool with Wally but we better keep Jax too! He knows the waverider. Give Jax a gun and his football tackles. No reason he needs superpowers. 

I have faith that they can do cool things with Wally without making him need to run chasing the bad guys all the time. His breakout fight scene in the crossover looked like kind of of whatever Rip did. Just keep that.

Edited December 5, 2017 by tarotx

[Sakura12]

They better have Jax come back, he can start training with Sara in how to fight bad guys with no powers. Plus I think Jax would like someone his age on the Waverider.  However I think Wally was going to school to be an engineer, so he could be replacing Jax as the mechanic. I hope that's not the case. Of course we also don't know if Franz wanted to leave as well. 

I still don't like how Wally got his powers, but I feel bad for him on the Flash since they only care about Barry. He would have fun with the Legends. I would also love if Mick took him under his wing because it would piss Joe off if his son was learning things from Heatwave. 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Sakura12

[Featherhat]

Well I would take Wally over LL in a (Kid) Flash ;) And the Flash doesn't really know what to do with him. But I really hope Jax comes back though, I don't want them to simply switch them out for the other, Jax is really a huge part of the team and Sara's little bro, Wally doesn't need another big sister. 

[johntfs]

It's official.  Franz Drameh is leaving Legends of Tomorrow

[lurker22]

I read a theory online that the little girl possessed by the demon who knows Sara's name could be Nora Darhk. And it makes sense. The next episode is called "Daddy Darhkest", and maybe that's why Nora said "So you're the famous Sara Lance" when she was sucking the life force out of Sara - she knew of her through the demon. And Nora is susceptible to possessions, when we saw Mallus talking through her. This could help flesh out Nora's character.

[darkestboy]

Shame we're losing Jax but I could actually see Wally working as a regular on Legends though. 

The show doesn't have a speedster and The Flash itself doesn't know what to do with the guy, might be the best case scenario for the character.

Shame we're losing Jax though.

[lurker22]

From SpoilerTV: Legends of Tomorrow - Episode 3.13 - No Country for Old Dads

Could this be a western episode? I wonder if this is another Sara-light episode, because Caity hasn't been filming this week.

[Sakura12]

I guess that's their yearly Jonah Hex episode. 

[johntfs]

5 hours ago, darkestboy said:

The show doesn't have a speedster and The Flash itself doesn't know what to do with the guy, might be the best case scenario for the character.

Maybe next year.  Keiynan Lonsdale is listed as a regular on The Flash through the end of its current season.  For my part, I'd like Wally to be LoT (and they're established a link via his partnership in crime-fighting with Nate/Steel), but because he's a speedster he kind of leaves everyone else on LoT in the dust, powers-wise.

[Proteus]

12 minutes ago, johntfs said:

Maybe next year.  Keiynan Lonsdale is listed as a regular on The Flash through the end of its current season.  For my part, I'd like Wally to be LoT (and they're established a link via his partnership in crime-fighting with Nate/Steel), but because he's a speedster he kind of leaves everyone else on LoT in the dust, powers-wise.

That means very little. Being listed as series regular for Flash doesn't mean he'll be on that show much anymore and not Legends instead if that's what they're planning on doing.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Proteus

[Sakura12]

Firestorm's powers leaves everyone in the dust as well. And they found ways to work around that. Wally is still impulsive and prone to trying to prove himself instead of thinking things through. If he joins the Legends they can probably help him a bit and show him how to work with a team. Unlike the Flash that just shoves him aside. Plus they don't always need speed. And we don't know if Speedsters can be affected by magic. If the Darkh's can stop him then he'll have to learn to fight without his speed. Which I think is an important lesson to learn since Barry and Kara are useless when they lose their powers. Powered people should still learn to fight without using their powers to be helpful all the time. 

Edited December 7, 2017 by Sakura12

[Miss Dee]

So whose dad is gonna show up as an anachronism in Jonah Hex's Old West?

Rip's dad is Booster Gold, correct?

[Featherhat]

43 minutes ago, johntfs said:

Maybe next year.  Keiynan Lonsdale is listed as a regular on The Flash through the end of its current season.  For my part, I'd like Wally to be LoT (and they're established a link via his partnership in crime-fighting with Nate/Steel), but because he's a speedster he kind of leaves everyone else on LoT in the dust, powers-wise.

Wally is only listed in "Therefore I am" on IMDb which everyone else is listed up until 4.23 (I know I know, not reliable) but they could easily switch him over to LOT as a regular or semi regular. I doubt FD will be in the credits in 3.10 but he was originally listed in all the episodes before it was reported he had actually left. 

Wally can always take over mechanics of the ship as well (sigh) and as @Sakura12 says he's inexperienced and naïve, susceptible to magic and has no experience with time travel. They managed to not use Firestorm's powers a lot and things like loss of gravity affect Speedsters. Though we still don't know if KL is there long term or just filling a guest spot for a couple of episodes before they bring in a new permanent member. Preferably not Ava. 

[Sakura12]

12 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

So whose dad is gonna show up as an anachronism in Jonah Hex's Old West?

Rip's dad is Booster Gold, correct?

Yes. They may be able to get him now since the DCEU is in disarray after Justice League's failure. I think it will have to one of Legend's dad's since everything is connected to them. It would be funny to see Quentin in the old west. 

[johntfs]

15 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Though we still don't know if KL is there long term or just filling a guest spot for a couple of episodes before they bring in a new permanent member. Preferably not Ava. 

At this point KL has only appeared in the season premiere and there's been nothing aside from speculation about him and Caity Lotz re-Tweeting each other to indicate that he'll come to LoT.

I'm pretty sure John Constantine is only appearing in the episodes he's listed as appearing in.

I suspect Ava will appear through episode 13 and then get killed, leaving Sara thirsting for revenge (and free to hook up with more historical hotties next season).

Figure Snart will appear through most of the rest of the season when he dies heroically once again.

For next season, who knows?  Wally might join the ship, and Jax might re-join it.  Constantine might appear as a semi-regular or regular.  One thing he'd bring to the Waverider beyond his occult expertise is a "con artist/grifter" mentality which is slightly lacking in the crew.

While I like Amaya, I am curious to see how long she stays on the ship since her destiny/future comes with a bit of an expiration date.

[Sakura12]

There is also this tweet about KL being on the set of LoT on Nov 22.

[Proteus]

28 minutes ago, johntfs said:

At this point KL has only appeared in the season premiere and there's been nothing aside from speculation about him and Caity Lotz re-Tweeting each other to indicate that he'll come to LoT.

I'm pretty sure John Constantine is only appearing in the episodes he's listed as appearing in.

I suspect Ava will appear through episode 13 and then get killed, leaving Sara thirsting for revenge (and free to hook up with more historical hotties next season).

Figure Snart will appear through most of the rest of the season when he dies heroically once again.

For next season, who knows?  Wally might join the ship, and Jax might re-join it.  Constantine might appear as a semi-regular or regular.  One thing he'd bring to the Waverider beyond his occult expertise is a "con artist/grifter" mentality which is slightly lacking in the crew.

While I like Amaya, I am curious to see how long she stays on the ship since her destiny/future comes with a bit of an expiration date.

I don't see any of this happening. No way are Ava or Leo dying IMO. MG and PK saying Saras getting a serious love interest this year and how they're moving away from her sleeping around to me says she won't revert next season.

From the tweets yesterday by Franz and the LOT writers room account I think he's gone for good.

I can't see Constantine fitting in long term.

It seems we have proof from a tweet that Wally is filming Legends and AK implied at the beginning of the season that while Wally no longer fit on Flash that he still had a place in the Arrowverse.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Proteus

[Sakura12]

I think Snart is only in for a few episodes then he will leave to go back to his Earth. 

Ava will be Sara's love interest most likely into next season since they want to move away from Sara sleeping around. 

Constantine might get the Jonah Hex treatment and show for an occasional arc. I hope Jax will be back but even if he does it won't be long term. 

Wally looks to be the new member that was mentioned at HVFF last weekend. 

[johntfs]

Whether he dies or returns to Earth-X, I'll be okay with "Leo's" departure.  I liked Wentworth Miller as Snart initially, but I prefer Dominic Purcell to remain as the "designated criminal."

I just hope Purcell doesn't end up leaving the show because Miller convinced him to star with him in an 80s themed musical called Prison Break Dance. 

I still can't see Ava as any kind of long-term love interest ala Barry/Iris or Oliver/Felicity.  I could see her as an Edith Keeler to Sara's Captain Kirk - a kind of one great love that never stopped Kirk from getting alien tail afterward.  I don't see her joining the crew and I certainly don't see Sara settling down in one spot.

I kind of doubt that Constantine will actually join the crew as a regular, but I wouldn't mind seeing him once or twice a season.

I'd be okay with Wally joining if the writers can find believable ways to not have his superspeed powers fix the situation in the episode five minutes after the problem appears.  As potent as he/they were, Firestorm was basically a dude that could fly and blast stuff, along with a few special abilities.  In the crossover, Wally is still a guy who can pluck bullets out of the airs after they've been fired and toss them back into the barrel of the guns that fired them.  That's on a whole different level.

[KirkB]

Personality wise I think Wally would fit in well on Legends. And away from Barry, he might actually be allowed to do more than run into a room and immediately be knocked unconscious. But as has been mentioned by others, a speedster is potentially TOO powerful and could make the rest of the team redundant, unless they nerf his powers and find ways to negate the point of having a speedster in the first place.

I imagine Leo will only be around for a handful of episodes, maybe until the end of the season though I kind of doubt it, but then he'll want to go back to Earth X and Ray. And I'm pretty sure WW has said he's done after that.

Ava is a tricky one. If she does indeed become Sara's love interest I could see her sticking around for a while (at least the season) and being sort of a calming influence, but I doubt she is long term for the show or Sara.

No way is Constantine around for more than two, maybe three episodes. He'll probably end up like Hex.

[tarotx]

Having guest stars come in for a few episodes just might be how they do it for the rest of the season. Wally needs to learn how to slow down and be a team member. Flash doesn't let him grow. I figure Legends will just do stuff like what happened with Rip and his little time bomb. Or send him after some clue and he'll get distracted. I think Legends can limit his power to make him work and still let him grow as a character. 

Wally eventually being sent to Teen Titans is what most think is going to happen with the character.