Spoilers & Speculation: Running Hot & Cold

[wonderwall]

Even if the EPs intend to make Felicity float between shows, I wonder if the Network would insist she spend 90% of her time on Arrow. Some people on tumblr pointed out the with Nina leaving TVD, Delena is over. Based on social media, that puts Olicity front and center for CW power couple. I'm not sure the Network would want to separate Oliver and Felicity. Or is that a crazy thought?

 

What makes O/F the new power couple though? Because I'm sure there are other ships that have just as many shippers (Stefan/Caroline, Bellarke...?) What makes a power couple?

[BkWurm1]

What makes O/F the new power couple though? Because I'm sure there are other ships that have just as many shippers (Stefan/Caroline, Bellarke...?) What makes a power couple?

Ratings?

[Chaser]

I think there are a lot of factors, but what I look at is how the network uses the couple. In the media, if you talk Arrow you talk Olicity and the network has no problem using them to sell products or try and bring in viewers. Even DC Comics get in on the action on twitter. 

 

I don't think Bellarke and Steroline are there yet. Steroline is going to be fighting with Bamon and I don't think The 100 will ever be a show that is going to be highlighted by a ship (Not to say Bellarke isn't hella popular because it is but the show is unique on the CW for that fact). 

Edited April 7, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[Proteus]

What makes O/F the new power couple though? Because I'm sure there are other ships that have just as many shippers (Stefan/Caroline, Bellarke...?) What makes a power couple?

Bellarke have been pretty overshadowed by Clexa as well, so I wouldn't count them.

[BkWurm1]

Bellarke have been pretty overshadowed by Clexa as well, so I wouldn't count them.

I don't know, after the betrayal Lexa pulled (forcing Clarke to use the nuclear option) I think that ship has sailed.  

Edited April 7, 2015 by BkWurm1

[tv echo]

Kreisberg wasn't able to reveal any hints about the title just yet, but the producer did say, "I can tell you that it's going to be cool. It's going to be really cool. Our plan for it is that it's like the crossover [episodes between Arrow and The Flash] every week."

Adding, "On both Arrow and The Flash there are teams in the sense that there is Team Arrow and Team Flash, but to have a team fully comprised of heroes and villains is going to be pretty epic."

*  *  *

Though producers are being somewhat tightlipped, there seems to be a high level of confidence that the upcoming series will be a crowd pleaser.

FLASH/ARROW SPIN OFF: 'IT'S GOING TO BE UNSTOPPABLE'

6 APR 2015  BY ROTH CORNET AND JOSHUA YEHL

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/04/06/flasharrow-spin-off-its-going-to-be-unstoppable

Edited April 7, 2015 by tv echo

[Sakura12]

I'm getting excited for the Spin off while still being wary because of the EP's involved, unless Laurel is revealed as the floater then my excitement will plummet. With a team full of fighters, suits and powers, they don't need the help of training wheels hero even if she can scream really loud. I'm crossing my fingers for either Dig or Lyla. 

 

With the talk of The 100. Clarke let a bunch of people blow up and committed genocide and I still find her more caring and heroic then Laurel is. That's why the majority blame goes to the actor not the writers. 

[Sunshine]

Taking AK's hyperbole with a grain of salt.  He was equally enthused about Brandon Routh a/k/a Superman becoming Ray Palmer/ATOM at SDCC2014. For me, he's been a snooze fest.

[Proteus]

I don't know, after the betrayal Lexa pulled (forcing Clarke to use the nuclear option) I think that ship has sailed.

I don't think so based on the big positive fan response they've gotten..

Ray Palmer, Heatwave, and Captain Cold are already three strikes against this show for me. Truth be told, all I care about is Caity Lotz.

[kismet]

At least the Flash sizzler that was posted from the WonderCon made Ray/ATOM seem more useful and in story than any of his time on Arrow. So that's a positive step in the right direction.

 

Not sure how I feel about the spin-off anymore. The more information they release the more I am hesitant that they will be able to execute all these grand schemes they have plans for. The casting was intriguing so I am still on board to give it a shot. But this floater concept & "spinoff every week!" is making me nervous.

[nksarmi]

They got me with Caity (rather she plays Sara or not) and Hawkgirl - I'm going to give it a try no matter what. :)

[Delphi]

I don't think, even if/with a floater character it's going to be a spin-off every week thing. I imagine it's more of them trying to replicate the epicness of the cross overs. There's no way they are going to have the budget to make these huge spinning off shows with dozens of actors. They are merely trying to do a non-stop action mini movie every week thing.

I'd actually be more excited if they gave us more information about the project instead of leaving everyone worrying about it, I can only assume that the final episodes of each show might touch upon the spin-off or set it up and they don't want to spoil anything.

[Chaser]

I'm excited for Caity, but I'm reserving judgement on her character until I see how they do bring her in. If they bring Sara back and then we get a scene with Laurel that is similar to the Felicity 'Light' one - "You turned Canary into something worth looking up to, I could never have that Light, you have earned the name." I'm straight up out. 

 

I'm excited for Hawkgirl. I liked her in the Justive League cartoon. lol 

 

I probably won't know if I will tune in until it premieres. I'm just not liking what I'm hearing about it so far.

[Sakura12]

I'm going to hope that Sara changes her name to Black Hawk (she doesn't need "Lady" in there, we know she's a lady), still a bird and much more formidable then a Canary. Which will make sense with Laurel being unable to ever catch up to Sara's skill level. 

[Sunshine]

I think the reason they are so excited about the spin-off is because it will be heroes & villains teaming up weekly.  You know people with masks so to speak. In their minds this makes it epic.  For the most part, Arrow and Flash have featured A superhero and his support team.

[nksarmi]

I'm going to hope that Sara changes her name to Black Hawk (she doesn't need "Lady" in there, we know she's a lady), still a bird and much more formidable then a Canary. Which will make sense with Laurel being unable to ever catch up to Sara's skill level. 

I am so loving this idea! Blackhawk fits Sara very well!

[Delphi]

I haven't read the new 52, I just can't put myself through that, but if they choose a new alias for Sara I hope that they go with Starling from the Birds of Prey comics. A bisexual master combatant and strategist on multiple government watch lists whose worried about the fate of her soul. And an old friend of the Black Canary.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Delphi

[Morrigan2575]

I haven't read the new 52, I just can't put myself through that, but if they choose a new alias for Sara I hope that they go with Starling from the Birds of Prey comics. A bisexual master combatant and strategist on multiple government watch lists whose worried about the fate of her soul. And an old friend of the Black Canary.

Great character but, Starling betrayed the BoP, and went villain. As long as they ignore that, I'm cool with it. I still like my White Canary theory. White Canary was a better fighter than Lady Shiva and Black Canary, granted she was a villain and Asian but she appeared in 11 episodes during one of the lesser BoP runs, i doubt many would care. White also works for rebirth and ties Sara/Laurel together.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Delphi]

I actually loved that storyline, but White Canary was also very much a villain.

[Sakura12]

I was thinking of Starling too (since that is the name of the city), but Morrigan2575 is right, she went villain and has a name aleady. I went with Black Hawk because there is an unknown Earth 22 Lady Blackhawk that as no name and no history. They can just use Time Travel with Sara and make her that Blackhawk and kind of introduce her into the DC world if they want too. 

[Morrigan2575]

I actually loved that storyline, but White Canary was also very much a villain.

oh, I'm all for Starling, just don't have Sara go villain, that's my only objection. As long as these idiots stay true to Sara instead of mining comics because they're creatively bankrupt, i'm fine with Starling.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[kismet]

I haven't read the new 52, I just can't put myself through that, but if they choose a new alias for Sara I hope that they go with Starling from the Birds of Prey comics. A bisexual master combatant and strategist on multiple government watch lists whose worried about the fate of her soul. And an old friend of the Black Canary.

Wow that sounds like a perfect match for CL.

Great character but, Starling betrayed the BoP, and went villain. As long as they ignore that, I'm cool with it. I still like my White Canary theory. White Canary was a better fighter than Lady Shiva and Black Canary, granted she was a villain and Asian but she appeared in 11 episodes during one of the lesser BoP runs, i doubt many would care. White also works for rebirth and ties Sara/Laurel together.

Another good choice. I hope the writers are putting as much effort into thinking about the perfect option for CL as people on this board are. They seem to get easily distracted by plots. So I hope her return is more about her and not what will make the biggest plot twist or splash.

[jaytee1812]

Wow that sounds like a perfect match for CL.

Another good choice. I hope the writers are putting as much effort into thinking about the perfect option for CL as people on this board are. They seem to get easily distracted by plots. So I hope her return is more about her and not what will make the biggest plot twist or splash.

I hope Caity Lotz has been going to acting lessons if she's going to play anything more than the bratty sister who can fight a bit.

[Morrigan2575]

I hope Caity Lotz has been going to acting lessons if she's going to play anything more than the bratty sister who can fight a bit.

wow, totally disagree with that one. CL has her weaknesses no doubt she's not very strong in the drama department. However she manages to play wounded/damaged really well. Shr also managed to creatseveral different characters. The pre Amazo Sara was totally different from post LoA Sara. There's also my favorite part the way she managed to change her pgphysical appearance between Sara and Canary. With Canary she was a BAMF her physical presence told you she wasn't someone to trifle with. As post LoA Sara she all but shrunk into herself as if she was trying to hide away from the world.

[wonderwall]

I hope Caity Lotz has been going to acting lessons if she's going to play anything more than the bratty sister who can fight a bit.

 

While I do think that CL isn't the best actor, Sara was always more than the bratty sister who could fight a bit. So much more. And this is coming from someone who didn't really care for her. IMO Sara was brave, tough, vulnerable, broken, and one of the most dynamic, a bit short sighted, but also rounded characters the show has created. Compared to Sara with all of the flashbacks, it was Laurel who was made to look like the bratty sister who couldn't fight at all, not Sara. 

Edited April 7, 2015 by wonderwall

[SonofaBiscuit]

Sure, CL wasn't the best actor on this show, but she certainly wasn't the worst either.  She radiated a lot of warmth and came off as a sweet person, even though her character had been through some bad shit.

[apinknightmare]

CL isn't going to win an Emmy anytime soon, but I'm sure if any of the EPs had an issue with her acting, they wouldn't have cast her.

[Delphi]

Caity might not be the best actress in the business, but I do enjoy her for what she brings to the table, an ability to switch characteristics on a dime, from dangerous to soft within seconds. But she is also highly believable in all her stunt work, which is a lot more than I can say for other CW actresses.

[Sakura12]

No one said CL was the best actress in the world. She managed create 3 or 4 believable character arcs for Sara in one season. That's good enough for me. And having seen her in other things, her other characters (Stephanie on Mad Men and Kirsten on Death Valley) were nothing like Sara. Whereas KC I've only ever seen the same character across multiple shows. 

Edited April 7, 2015 by Sakura12

[kismet]

I will have to say that CL was never the strongest actor on the show, but like SonofaBiscuit said she radiated warmth. I responded to her acting, even if I wouldn't have given it any awards. A lot of the actors on both Arrow & Flash are not that amazing if you broke down their performance, but they are personable & I respond to the energy they put on the screen. At the end of the day, I want to be able to root or love to hate the characters I see on the screen, more so than hand them an award. CL brought that personable/relatable quality to her character, even if her plot was not always in her favor. I just want whatever role they find for her to be about making her a quality character that sustains both the character & the story. I want her character to not just be used a plot device to make some big splash or get some hits on websites for being game-changing. She already suffered being a plot device on Arrow, and TBH Arrow s3 is worse off because of it. CL may not have the best acting chops, but her stunts are amazing and more importantly I enjoy what she does bring to the acting table, especially if given quality scripts. So I hope they find her a good character &/or rationale/alias if they do bring back SL.

[BkWurm1]

I remain impressed and a little amazed at what Caity Lotz was able to do with Sara.  How is it that I found it absolutely believable that she is both an incredible tough assassin and also one of the most broken and vulnerable people alive?   The combination shouldn't have worked but CL did some incredibly subtle character work.  As said earlier, when she was on the job, she radiated her power and confidence.   When she was strategizing in the Arrow Lair she was determined and pragmatic (too pragmatic) but when she was just herself, she was almost skittish but at the same time you could just feel her longing to be loved.

 

There was a moment when Oliver suggests they get an apartment together and she asks if he is asking her to move in with him only for him to hem and haw - and it's not a big thing but I walked away from that scene knowing that Sara's heart was a little bit more broken and saw coming the break up later in the episode. 

 

 Every actor has strengths and weaknesses (and she hasn't been in the biz that long) but CL knows how to emotionally connect the audience to her character.   I only see her getting stronger and stronger as time goes by.    

Edited April 7, 2015 by BkWurm1

[dtissagirl]

I just don't see how the floater is going to work unless it's Lyla who really isn't super-involved on Arrow. I'm looking at the upcoming episode of the Flash where Felicity and Ray show up in Central City and MG's comments about how the timelines are messed up because of the CW's scheduling. And that's just one episode. I feel sorry for whoever it is that's hopping around from show to show. How does that even work contract-wise if it's an Arrow regular? Do they get paid for being a guest star on two other shows? Can they say no because they just want to be on one show?

I was thinking about this again. I guess it's really gonna depend on the nature of the spinoff. Does the new team work for an overseeing organization? Do they need someone to point them out to where they're needed? Are they fixed on a location, or going where they're needed a la SHIELD/Leverage/Criminal Minds? If so, then yes, Lyla would be the #1 candidate for the job. The fact that Stephen described it as a JOB made me think this person will actually be more of a presence in the spinoff than Arrow/Flash going forward.

But if the spinoff is gonna repeat what Arrow and Flash do -- self-sustained teams that find their own missions, mostly focused on a single location -- then the floater could be anyone but Oliver on Arrow, appearing once or twice on the other shows to coordinate crossovers.

Edited April 7, 2015 by dancingnancy

[Sakura12]

A lot reviews for CL's performance did talk about how she was able to be both vulnerable and a badass. What really got to me as others have mentioned, was how she used her body to portray the different Sara's we saw. In the costume she was a straight up badass, in the lair she was the detached assassin, when she showed up at her party she almost looked like she was trying to shrink into herself. Then there was the differences between pre-Gambit Sara, Island Sara and Canary Sara. The actors I like are the ones that add their own touches (not written in the script) to the character, body movements, quirks, reactions, etc... SA, EBR and DR do that as well. 

 

It would be unfair to have Laurel on the show fighting alongside Sara. In the "Canaries" fight you could tell it was CL vs. a stunt double. 

Edited April 7, 2015 by Sakura12

[Morrigan2575]

Interesting, I was over on Spoiler TV talking about The Flash promo and there was a discussion about the floater.

The #1 pick on that site seems to be Laurel, followed by Lyla. Only one person thinks it's Felicity.

The argument for Laurel, she's related to Sara and knows Ray From arrow. She is connected to CC because of Dinah living there plus

Cisco builds her a Canary Cry device and she pays him back somehow

. Plus she has an obvious connection to Arrow/SC.

[FurryFury]

Making Laurel recur on 3 shows would be an idiotic decision from the business standpoint. By this time it should be clear she's a very divisive character. Why the hell would people care and want to follow her into other shows?

[statsgirl]

If someone doesn't like Laurel on one show, they're not going to want to watch the other two shows she's on.

 

Also Laurel is connected to all three shows only tangentially.  What's the logic to her interacting with Team Flash?  They really don't need her, especially since she can't even be a lawyer in CC.  And having her related to Sara, if that's who CL plays, is only going to make Insta Canary look even worse when she's on a show with the real one.

 

 

Every actor has strengths and weaknesses (and she hasn't been in the biz that long) but CL knows how to emotionally connect the audience to her character.   I only see her getting stronger and stronger as time goes by.    

Being able to physically do the stunts was a bonus, but I think what made Sara such a good character, and one people don't want to let go of, is the emotional connection to the audience.  That's what KC didn't and doesn't have (see conversation in Heartaches thread about why Lauriver didn't work.)

[Sakura12]

Laurel's unpopularity is the main reason I don't think it will be her. That and if it's supposed be a job of sorts, what job would Laurel have? She can't be a Lawyer in different cities and none of the teams need an inexperienced fighter when they all have super powers or can fight. The spin off especially wouldn't need Laurel with whoever CL is playing, a time traveler, a reincarnated warrior, lame Iron Man and a guy with electric powers. 

Edited April 7, 2015 by Sakura12

[Sunshine]

I saw some spec on Twitter that said they thought it was LL because KC recently started following ATOM & Flash fan accounts.  I guess one thing in KC's favor is I keep reading she has a CW contract not an Arrow contract.  I just can't make LL work with the "it's their job" part.  Lyla, Diggle, Felicty & Lance make much more sense.  The idea might not be that said character will draw in other viewers from the various shows.  It might be that they want someone to tie them all together so the calling on other superheroes makes sense.  So it seems to me it's either an overall administrative position (Lyla, Diggle, or Lance) or someone who has a higher skill than the others like Felicity's hacking.  Both Ray (who is not in contention) and Cisco can build things using technology.   Ray bought a company to force Felicity to work for him to retrieve the data from the Applied Sciences server so he could create his suit.  She has made several upgrades to the Star Labs technology, etc. Caitlin is a doctor.  I am pretty sure it's not Oliver, Roy, or Thea.  I just can't see Malcolm in that role either.  Have I missed anyone who originated on Arrow and is still on the show?  I suppose we won't know until after the seasons end. CW upfronts anyone?

Edited April 7, 2015 by Sunshine

[nksarmi]

I'm not saying it IS Laurel, but why can't you be a lawyer in different cities?  She can't be an ADA in different cities, but she certainly could practice law in different cities.

 

*Edited because it should be cities, not seasons.

Edited April 7, 2015 by nksarmi

[Morrigan2575]

I'm not saying it IS Laurel, but why can't you be a lawyer in different cities?  She can't be an ADA in different seasons, but she certainly could practice law in different cities.

only if they're in the same state or she passed the bar in that state as well as her state (wherever SC is).

[SonofaBiscuit]

Laurel is a lawyer right now, but we still have time for a stupid storyline like Lyla recruits Laurel to work for her or some other such nonsense.  At least if it was Laurel, maybe I could watch most episodes of Arrow next season.    

[Starfish35]

Sooner or later they have to give up on the law thing with Laurel. It was a stupid idea to begin with (I'm sorry, but I have always always hated that they made her Rachel Dawes lite) and it's stupid (IMO) that they've kept dragging her back to it when presented with natural exit points (the destruction of CNRI, her almost disbarment). If she's going to be BC, they need to commit to that, and stop trying to keep up this pretense that she can keep up a full time job and do vigilante-ing on the side.

As far as her being the "floater", I would prefer it being her to it being Felicity, but only marginally, and only as the best of two bad choices. Just because I'm a petty petty person and do not want Laurel to "win", and if Felicity is taken away from Arrow that's what it will feel like to me. But I do not want her on Flash, and in the spinoff more than just a visit to Sara once or twice a season.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Starfish35

[jaytee1812]

I'm not saying it IS Laurel, but why can't you be a lawyer in different cities?  She can't be an ADA in different seasons, but she certainly could practice law in different cities.

I don't think it is Laurel but there's no reason it couldn't work like that. 

 

There is a way they could work in any character from Arrow if they wanted. I thought it would work well for Felicity at first, but now I think about it more it would just look like she's going from boyfriend to boyfriend, to boyfriend. My pick would be Thea or Roy just because any extra time with them on screen is good. 

[tarotx]

I thought CL was good in everything non verbal. She had some issues with her little girl gymnast voice but I think it worked for the most part.

[jaytee1812]

Sooner or later they have to give up on the law thing with Laurel. It was a stupid idea to begin with (I'm sorry, but I have always always hated that they made her Rachel Dawes lite) and it's stupid (IMO) that they've kept dragging her back to it when presented with natural exit points (the destruction of CNRI, her almost disbarment). If she's going to be BC, they need to commit to that, and stop trying to keep up this pretense that she can keep up a full time job and do vigilante-ing on the side.

 

Because god forbid a woman have a mind and be able to fight? 

[Genki]

Wasn't Laurel going to practice in San Fran according to 3.14 Flashback? PersonallyI think Lawyer to superheroes is a niche market and something that they all could use.

 

I also think Felicity is the only real tech person on Arrow, they need her. With Cisco and Ray and even Barry, Felicity's skills aren't that necessary to the rest of the Flarrowverse.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Genki

[wonderwall]

Because god forbid a woman have a mind and be able to fight?

As Ron Swanson once said: never half ass two jobs. Whole ass one.

[FurryFury]

I also think Felicity is the only real tech person on Arrow, they need her. With Cisco and Ray and even Barry, Felicity's skills aren't that necessary to the rest of the Flarrowverse.

 

I think The Flash writers have forgot that Barry is a smart guy and a scientist, actually. 

 

Because god forbid a woman have a mind and be able to fight?

 

I'm not sure what not realistically having enough time for a full-time, time-consuming job AND being a vigilante has anything to do with "having a mind". FWIW, Sara has been also shown to have some non-combat skills like analyzing blood. BTW, Oliver had to forgo meetings when he was the CEO because of his heroics, it stands to reason that Laurel would have to miss stuff too.

[wonderwall]

Not to mention Felicity is always taking time off of work. It makes no sense why this doesn't apply to laurel. She isn't superwoman by any means

[jaytee1812]

How did you get that out of what I said? Are you implying that women who aren't lawyers don't have minds? Because that's as ridiculous as the logic leap you made.

 

It was a question, that if Laurel was a vigilante that's all she could be, like Sara.