Small Talk: Which Way to Sleepy Hollow?

[phoenics]

I finally got the chance to watch the rest of the last season of Grimm. HOLY COW. I mean - Katrina was a lightweight in her evil storyline compared to Juliette! I mean - they REALLY turned her to the dark side (she did get kind of a raw deal, but she really just went nuts).

That's three shows now that turned the "love interests" into raving psychotics: Gotham, Grimm and Sleepy Hollow. Two of those killed off the problematic characters.

Although the Grimm storyline really showcased how limited of a range the actress portraying Juliette had (she was really wooden and couldn't emote much more than a blank stare most of the time - the only time she ever emoted anything real was her anger - which I suspect was partly real given that she was being written off the show. It reminded me of some of the Katia Winter scenes and her cold anger - some of that felt like it was "real", lol.

In any case, all of these shows got rid of their problems at the same time.

Only one show actively tried to rehabilitate - Arrow, with Laurel. I never saw her as being as bad as others complained she was - and it's clear that the issue was the writing and not her (proof is Season 3 Felicity, who was even more annoying with her love triangle and her "I'm perfect and everything I touch I make perfect" Mary-Sue-ness). The Arrow and Flash writers simply struggle with writing women as fully realized human beings.

Here's hoping for better things to come this season.

Edited September 20, 2015 by phoenics

[jhlipton]

Juliette had as much discussion on the Grimm forum as Katrina did here (although there were some who were fans there).  The biggest problem was that she  was written so inconsistently after turning to the dark side (plus they killed a great character who should have been much more involved -- just for "shock".  Ugh.

 

At least the remaining cast is pretty solid -- once they get rid of the "Royals" plot.  (The show would have been much better if Claire Coffee -- who really ACT -- had played Juliette, and Bitsy Tusch had played Adelind.)

[phoenics]

Juliette had as much discussion on the Grimm forum as Katrina did here (although there were some who were fans there).  The biggest problem was that she  was written so inconsistently after turning to the dark side (plus they killed a great character who should have been much more involved -- just for "shock".  Ugh.

Agreed. I never hated Juliette - I felt sorry for the actress. But the character was a bit problematic. I was glad when she was let in on the secret - but after a point, her limited acting range became an issue. But I don't think she deserved the hatred. At least she wasn't trying to take over the show or steal the "lead" from someone. Cough*Katia Winter*Cough

At least the remaining cast is pretty solid -- once they get rid of the "Royals" plot.  (The show would have been much better if Claire Coffee -- who really ACT -- had played Juliette, and Bitsy Tusch had played Adelind.)

I COMPLETELY agree. Claire Coffee is a much better actress than Bitsy. And I think Bitsy could have played cold much better. The blank stare would work for her with that. I also think Claire and the lead guy (forgot his name) have much more chemistry together, though he had it with Bitsy too. I think what is annoying me though is that when you think of the characters, I still hate Adelind. I don't want her and Nick to be together - I think that would be sick. She's the reason Juliette ended up where she did - and that would be SO awful to do.. just distasteful. I don't see how Nick could ever be with her romantically. No. Adelind's actions directly led to Juliette being turned into a Hexenbeast and everything that then followed. Yeah - angst I get - but this would just be really bad and a clear case of the writers caving to shipping. The scene where Nick had to "sleep" with an Adelind-faced Juliette was enough of a smackdown to the actress Bitsy and enough of a "give" to the Nick-Adelind shippers that I know must exist in huge numbers.

I just don't like to see shows cave in like that. I think a Nick-Adelind real romance would destroy Nick as a character and I'd be begging for Bitsy to come back and haunt him like for real for real.

You could argue that Adelind is only decent now and in future seasons because they "suppressed her hexenbeast", which would mean that Juliette would ONLY be evil (because that was a complete 180 for her - she was too sweet to do that) because of her hexenbeast. Which means that Nick would then fall for the woman who caused the demise of his former love. That's disgusting.

I hope they just keep him out of any romantic entanglements in the future.

[jhlipton]

 I still hate Adelind. I don't want her and Nick to be together - I think that would be sick. 

 

Agreed.  It is much too late for any romance with David and Claire -- I was only thinking of what might have been.  

 

I must say, the writers didn't help Bitsy when they couldn't decide whether she wanted to be a hexenbiest or not.  As  a result of sloppy writing and stony acting, we have no idea what she was thinking when

Nick's mom was being killed

.

[phoenics]

Yeah I agree. That was so terrible. I felt really badly for Nick - but I also felt like the writing was just bad. They didn't do nearly enough to illustrate whether it was Juliette the original who was evil or HexBeast Juliette. I think the writers wanted to give her haters something to hang their hats on - while at the same time giving her an out - but it was just sloppy.

And if it was that easy - why didn't Nick kill Adeline in the Season 1? Why all of the drama to just take her powers? He killed other Wesen - why not her? But suddenly they can just kill Juliette?

That character got a raw deal. The actress wasn't great - but I hate it when execs and writers take it out on the character because of issues. When the Transformers franchise replaced Megan Fox by trashing the Mikaela character, I thought it was tasteless. And to add insult to injury, they didn't even change the story enough - the new girl was helping out a guy who had cars everywhere? Please. That was so written for Mikaela - it didn't even make sense with blond forgettable girl. And the way they trashed the character by saying stuff she'd never do and trashing the character... I found it distasteful and petty. Hate on the actress - but there's no need to assassinate the character.

[jhlipton]

That's three shows now that turned the "love interests" into raving psychotics: Gotham, Grimm and Sleepy Hollow. Two of those killed off the problematic characters.

 

I don't know if you've seen the first ep of Gotham, but it turns out it was a Good Thing they didn't kill off Barbara.  Most of the way through Season 1, she was a drag on the show, but Psycho Barbara is awesome!

[DJG1122]

I thought so too. Psycho Barbara was the best part of the show.

[phoenics]

I gave up on Gotham honestly.

[DeLurker]

I've been staying away from this forum as much as possible to prevent myself from going bonkers over how S 2.1 will go (I refuse to acknowledge last season).

But I feel myself being pulled under...help me!

[jhlipton]

I've been staying away from this forum as much as possible to prevent myself from going bonkers over how S 2.1 will go (I refuse to acknowledge last season).

But I feel myself being pulled under...help me!

 

Come join the madness... You know you want to!  Live your life for the THRILLLLLLLLLLLS!

[phoenics]

Come join the madness... You know you want to!  Live your life for the THRILLLLLLLLLLLS!

Hey - I'm watching Minority Report right now - it's actually interesting in that they ARE treating Meagan Goode's character as a sexy kickass woman. It's actually refreshing - I think the male lead will actually end up having a crush on Vega and his twin (?) actually seems taken with her too - but in a skeevy way.

Oh and Wilder Vildarrama's character just hit on her too...

Win.

I do see the Sleepy Hollow similarities, but MG's character actually seems to be driving the show a lot more than her costar. And her co-star seems a bit more bumbling than Ichabod.

I'm going to give this a chance, but I have a feeling it's gonna end up like Almost Human.

Edited September 29, 2015 by phoenics

[jhlipton]

I'm going to give this a chance, but I have a feeling it's gonna end up like Almost Human.

 

I'm hoping not..  but I'm also ready in case it does fail...

[DeLurker]

Come join the madness... You know you want to!  Live your life for the THRILLLLLLLLLLLS!

I have mostly caved ...staying away from reviews of the pilots and spoilers, but I have to admit I am anxiously awaiting Thursday.  I've got my fingers crossed hoping the new season doesn't let me down, but even with season 2 being so bad for the most part, I couldn't walk away.  It was like my marriage that lasted way way too long - I saw a glimmer and potential the day we met and spent the next 14 years trying to get that to grow into something of substance (instead of a firefly that showed up every once in a while).  Oy vey.

 

But even at its worst, having y'all for company was the best.

[jhlipton]

I haven't seen episode 2 yet but:
 
Lana Cho ‏@LanaJeany

Even our "victims" are tough!  No damsels in distress on our show.  #MinorityReport  #WomenRule

Kerri ‏@Kerritweetz 

Omg! They are putting the "Nice Guy" assholes who feel entitled to women on blast! Love you! @MAXBORENSTEIN @PrecrimeHQ @MinorityReport

 

LOVE this!!

[phoenics]

I'm actually embarrassed that I EVER caped for Katie Cassidy on Arrow and felt badly for her that she basically lost her lead role to EBR.

Well, I'm no longer sorry after she pulled this stunt.

https://twitter.com/MzKatieCassidy/status/651513411201691648

This is why black women are so d@mn paranoid about stuff like this. Her tweet was so utterly unnecessary and apparently she and DP are roommates. This mess was done on purpose. So glad twitter lit her shady behind up.

I'm so angry about this.

[jhlipton]

Well, I'm no longer sorry after she pulled this stunt.

https://twitter.com/MzKatieCassidy/status/651513411201691648

This is why black women are so d@mn paranoid about stuff like this. Her tweet was so utterly unnecessary and apparently she and DP are roommates. This mess was done on purpose. So glad twitter lit her shady behind up.

I'm so angry about this.

 

So then she posts https://twitter.com/MzKatieCassidy/status/651603926882496512:

You. Are. Breathtakingly. Beautiful. @dpanabaker #TheFlashSeason2

 

 

So I tweeted:

@MzKatieCassidy @dpanabaker @EmilyBett -- White girls are beautiful.  Black girls like @candicekp are not.  Got it.

 

She is Totally. Clueless!

 

===================================================

 

ETA: Candice Patton is totes adorable! http://https://instagram.com/p/8g-kGlxbwK/?taken-by=candicekp

Edited October 7, 2015 by jhlipton

[BestestAuntEver]

I don't even watch arrow. I don't understand why she is doing all of this stanning for the Flash. I'm not going through this SH type bullshit again. WTH is wrong with these show runners and actors?

[phoenics]

So then she posts https://twitter.com/MzKatieCassidy/status/651603926882496512:

 

So I tweeted:

 

She is Totally. Clueless!

 

===================================================

 

ETA: Candice Patton is totes adorable! http://https://instagram.com/p/8g-kGlxbwK/?taken-by=candicekp

Katie Cassidy is really working every last nerve I have. Thanks for sticking up for CP... Funny how KC doesn't understand what she's doing (she does) and why the fandom responded that way. Especially after what happened to her on Arrow... Maybe she's mad CP is keeping her spot and would rather DP have it because ehe doesn't think CP "deserves" it?

Twisted I know - but right now KC is making me hate her guts.

[jhlipton]

Meanwhile on Minority Report:

Thew future is diverse

 

[Fiddler1]

For HalcyonDays (and anyone else interested!)

 

Yes, Friday night I'll be touring Sleepy Hollow Cemetery.  I live about half an hour away from Tarrytown/Sleepy Hollow and every October we go up there.  Previous years we've gone to the Old Dutch Church and listened to an actor read/tell the Legend of Sleepy Hollow.  Sitting in that old (1685) stone church, lit only by candlelight (there's no electricity or plumbing) looking directly out the window at the old Dutch Burying Ground....VERY atmospheric, let me tell you!

 

This year we'll be going (for the second time) to a lantern tour of the larger cemetery.  This is adjacent to the Old Dutch Burying Ground.  It's about 90 acres and is the resting place of Washington Irving, Andrew Carnegie, some of the Rockefellers, etc.  And if you were a fan of Dark Shadows, there's a crypt there that was used as Barnabas Collins' vault ;)  The cemetery itself is very nice....some people thing it's kind of a weird thing to do, but I think it's fascinating.  It's very respectfully done and the guide gives you lots of interesting information about the people and places there.  It's also a very pretty spot.....not row upon row of graves, but wooded, twisty paths, all different little levels to match the hilly terrain....it just sort of 'fits' there.

 

That whole area is really special....Irving's house "Sunnyside" is a little gem, as well as some of the other nearby historic homes/farms.  This time of year it gets a little crazy and I'm sure the locals are glad when Halloween is over, but my love for the area and the book are what got me watching the show to begin with! :)

[Julia]

For HalcyonDays (and anyone else interested!)

 

Yes, Friday night I'll be touring Sleepy Hollow Cemetery.  I live about half an hour away from Tarrytown/Sleepy Hollow and every October we go up there.  Previous years we've gone to the Old Dutch Church and listened to an actor read/tell the Legend of Sleepy Hollow.  Sitting in that old (1685) stone church, lit only by candlelight (there's no electricity or plumbing) looking directly out the window at the old Dutch Burying Ground....VERY atmospheric, let me tell you!

 

This year we'll be going (for the second time) to a lantern tour of the larger cemetery.  This is adjacent to the Old Dutch Burying Ground.  It's about 90 acres and is the resting place of Washington Irving, Andrew Carnegie, some of the Rockefellers, etc.  And if you were a fan of Dark Shadows, there's a crypt there that was used as Barnabas Collins' vault ;)  The cemetery itself is very nice....some people thing it's kind of a weird thing to do, but I think it's fascinating.  It's very respectfully done and the guide gives you lots of interesting information about the people and places there.  It's also a very pretty spot.....not row upon row of graves, but wooded, twisty paths, all different little levels to match the hilly terrain....it just sort of 'fits' there.

 

That whole area is really special....Irving's house "Sunnyside" is a little gem, as well as some of the other nearby historic homes/farms.  This time of year it gets a little crazy and I'm sure the locals are glad when Halloween is over, but my love for the area and the book are what got me watching the show to begin with! :)

 

Also kind of related, Philipsburg Manor, another of the Sunnyside restorations, was a farm and a grist mill which produced food for slave ships using slave labor. It's been repurposed as a museum of slavery in the north, and it's really fascinating. 

[BestestAuntEver]

For HalcyonDays (and anyone else interested!)

Yes, Friday night I'll be touring Sleepy Hollow Cemetery. I live about half an hour away from Tarrytown/Sleepy Hollow and every October we go up there. Previous years we've gone to the Old Dutch Church and listened to an actor read/tell the Legend of Sleepy Hollow. Sitting in that old (1685) stone church, lit only by candlelight (there's no electricity or plumbing) looking directly out the window at the old Dutch Burying Ground....VERY atmospheric, let me tell you!

This year we'll be going (for the second time) to a lantern tour of the larger cemetery. This is adjacent to the Old Dutch Burying Ground. It's about 90 acres and is the resting place of Washington Irving, Andrew Carnegie, some of the Rockefellers, etc. And if you were a fan of Dark Shadows, there's a crypt there that was used as Barnabas Collins' vault ;) The cemetery itself is very nice....some people thing it's kind of a weird thing to do, but I think it's fascinating. It's very respectfully done and the guide gives you lots of interesting information about the people and places there. It's also a very pretty spot.....not row upon row of graves, but wooded, twisty paths, all different little levels to match the hilly terrain....it just sort of 'fits' there.

That whole area is really special....Irving's house "Sunnyside" is a little gem, as well as some of the other nearby historic homes/farms. This time of year it gets a little crazy and I'm sure the locals are glad when Halloween is over, but my love for the area and the book are what got me watching the show to begin with! :)

This has been added to my bucket list. Historical and fun, I'm in.

[xaxat]

For those of you that scoffed and nitpicked the idea of a series of an entirely forgotten, elaborately constructed set of tunnels leading to a centuries old abandoned archive. . . 

 

Thomas Jefferson's lost chemistry lab found

 

A worker renovating the Rotunda at the University of Virginia made an unexpected discovery when he crawled through a hole in the wall: part of a chemistry lab partly designed by Thomas Jefferson nearly 200 years ago, the Charlottesville Newsplex reports.

The brick chemical hearth — one of the only remaining in the world — had been accidentally preserved since being walled off in the 1840s.

"Just because of luck and geometry of the building, because it was bricked up, it survived the major fire in 1895," project manager Matt Schiedt says. "It survived the major renovation in the 1970s, mostly because people didn't know it was there.

[Julia]

For those of you that scoffed and nitpicked the idea of a series of an entirely forgotten, elaborately constructed set of tunnels leading to a centuries old abandoned archive. . . 

 

Thomas Jefferson's lost chemistry lab found

 

 

Wow. I bet the archaeologists are wetting their pants.

[jhlipton]

Cool

[DeLurker]

I'm beginning to look forward to the next episode of SH again - that did not happen in S2.

[jhlipton]

I presume that discussion of the Bones episode will only take place in that forum?

[phoenics]

Hey guys,

Sorry to disappear on you all. I fell off a curb and basically broke my foot (dislocated all of my metatarsals) and sprained the other. I had to have emergency surgery after resetting the bones didn't work).

It should have been a happy day - I bought a place to be built and was going into the one across from my current patch of dirt when I fell.

I'm not going to be able to watch SH live anymore unless I can make myFios app work. So I'm bummed. I just got caught up on episodes I missed (2).

[Miss Dee]

Aw, get better soon phoenics! I was wondering where you were.

[cynic]

I've been wondering too! Sorry to hear about your injury. I hope you get better soon. Glad to see you back :).

[CalamityBoPeep]

I broke my ankle in January 2014... seriously no fun.  I feel for you.  Hope they gave you some good meds, phoenics!  And if they suggest you do physical therapy, do it!  It really does help.  Especially when they massage it at the end of a session.

[phoenics]

I have A PT coming on Monday, so I hope things go well.

Right now it's hard. I got a flu and pneumonia shot right as I left the hospital on Thursday and it's made my arm sore so it hurts when I use my walker (I refuse to use crutches - I'd just fall again). Plus md other ankle is sprained. So sucks all around.

I'm supposed to be in recovery for 6 months. I hope I'm well after that. Because I move into my new place in May and it has four stories.

[MissAlmond]

So sorry to hear this, Phoenics!!!!!!!  Take care of yourself. 

[jhlipton]

Get better soon, phoenics.  I hope (a) that you are all better in your new place [4 stories -- yikes!!!] and (b) that you post as you get caught up.

[DeLurker]

Feel better phoenics!

[BestestAuntEver]

I hope you feel better, Phoenix. Let PT know you will have a number of steps to navigate

[blixie]

Ooh get well, and rest up phoenics!

[phoenics]

Thanks everybody! I'm trying as hard as I can to get better. But wow this cast is tight and heavy.

[DJG1122]

Just watched Johnny Depp's Sleepy Hollow- Johnny Depp+Tim Burton=total entertainment!!!!!

Now watching Tim Burton's "Nightmare Before Christmas". My favorite movie. If you have never seen it, I advise you to watch.

Just curious. How many folks on this forum have Halloween as their favorite holiday?????

[Commando Cody]

Was that Henry on tonight's episode of Elementary?

Edited November 6, 2015 by Commando Cody

[Miss Dee]

It was. He's playing Morland Holmes, Sherlock's father. At least we know this right off the bat this time!

[jhlipton]

Just curious. How many folks on this forum have Halloween as their favorite holiday?????

 

For my brother-in-law and one of my best friends, it's the only day that matters.  Nov 1st, they're already planning for next year.

[DJG1122]

In my neighborhood, people come in from all over town. Adults, as well as the children, dress in costumes anand we have a giant street party of several hundred people.

[DJG1122]

HalcyonDays & Enero, "I Want To Believe" too

[LeeLeePanda]

So, I've recently become obsessed with the musical Hamilton. Its so good! Of course the show is sold out until September. Also, I really want Sleepy Hollow to make a nod to the musical in some way. I'm pretty sure Crane would have clashed with Hamilton,lol.

[cynic]

There was some talk about slowburns and novel-like storytelling in reference to season 3. I'm not sure I really agree with that , but it reminded me of the talk surrounding The Expanse on SyFy. For those who haven't heard about it, it's based on a series of books that takes place in the future when we have managed to colonize some of the solar system. It deals a lot with the issues between Earth and the colonies on Mars and in the asteroid belt in a way that parallels old world Europe, the U.S. and the developing world while the central plot centers around a missing girl and a more immediate threat that people are only now becoming aware of. 

 

The authors and showrunners pay a lot attention to the worldbuilding and it shows. I would say that's the best part of the show. There's some disagreement about the storytelling though. Some found it slow at times and unnecessarily confusing. Others love that the show does not do any handholding. Everything is there, but it's not lampshaded. You have to pay a lot of attention if you want to follow everything that is going on. It's probably a show that is more enjoyable as a binge than a weekly watch for casual viewers. I loved it and think that it worked well and paid off nicely, but then I read the book which made things easier. I'd recommend it to anyone that enjoys that kind of detailed, slowburn TV. I believe all ten episodes of season one are on SyFy.com.

 

Also, for those that appreciate diversity, the show has a multi-ethnic cast. The authors seemed to take great care to include a lot of diversity in the book series and the show reflects that pretty well. One of those characters is a black female engineer whom I enjoy a lot in the books and I am very eager to watch her develop as the series progresses. 

[xaxat]

A new article in the political magazine Foreign Policy (Paywall). America Was Founded on Secrets and Lies: Espionage, kidnapping, and the dark art of spycraft is as American as George Washington.

 

 

With all due respect to early-American hagiographer Parson Weems, George Washington knew how to tell a lie. In fact, he told a lot of them. Moreover, talent for deception was shared by James Madison and Thomas Jefferson, all of whom, to borrow from former Vice President Dick Cheney, worked the “dark side.” 

 

Washington, Jefferson, dark arts, dark side? Hmmm sounds familiar. . . 

[phoenics]

Ya'll - I don't even watch TWD - but Richonne just happened last night.  I mean - HAPPENED.

 

And now all of SH's fandom looks at the SH writers like *side eye*

[BestestAuntEver]

Ya'll - I don't even watch TWD - but Richonne just happened last night. I mean - HAPPENED.

And now all of SH's fandom looks at the SH writers like *side eye*

Ha, I just came here to say Richonne happened on TWD. It was hot as f***. We got more than just a kiss and it wasn't a freaking dream. I squeed with the kiss and squealed when they were shown naked tangled up in bed. Beautiful!

SH better get on it. I want more than a kiss to end the season and I don't want any lame dream sexy times.

Edited February 22, 2016 by BestestAuntEver

[Carrie Ann]

I don't watch TWD because I can't handle all the grimness of it, but I have been rooting for Richonne from the sidelines, "watching" them via Tumblr gifs, and I am so happy for that fandom! Especially after last season, with the random white shipblock character--I really worried that it would never happen. Yay for TWD and for the fandom!