All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[Growsonwalls]

3 minutes ago, Camille said:

I agree with nearly everything here, but I never felt her feelings went so far as obsession, per se. But I remember tearing up during that scene in "The Storm, 2", when she tells Mark, "I can't remember a time when I didn't love him."

Obsession maybe isn't the right word. But definitely an intense, palpable love for him. Even when they were not on good terms there wasn't a scene where I didn't think that Carol wanted to jump his bones. But hey, it's George Clooney and I'd probably be the same way in real life.

As for Sherry Stringfield does anyone know if there was more going on when she first departed the show? It was very abrupt and the reasons she gave at the time (essentially "I want to spend more time with my family") seemed vague and odd. Unlike George Clooney she didn't have a ton of offers to do more lucrative movies. And she came back a few seasons later without having done many projects. 

As for Kerry the binge-watching of early episodes also made me remember that even when she was the ER villain that people hated she (like Benton) had some really tender, lovely moments. I teared up watching her sign to a deaf child again. I also loved when a child asked why Benton wasn't crying and Benton said "I am. Right here" (pointed to the child's heart). 

In fact, the biggest difference between the early seasons and later seasons was that in the early seasons all the characters had really tender, lovely moments mixed in with moments when they were being real shits. That's sort of like real life. No one who works in a busy stressful ER is sunshine and roses all the time. In later seasons I felt like the characters were less nuanced, and everything was going for the Big Effect to diminishing returns.

[debraran]

I agree, they seemed real in the beginning. Later it was more cardboard and sexual, like a soap opera but then they'd be good shows intertwined. Ray, John Stamos, even Pratt, didn't have the depth, that was partly writing but no nuance. Ray could have been better written but he seemed so immature, that whole group did.

My thing with Doug and Carol, was passion is great, if you like Doug's looks, he's sexy, but that was it. I thought obsessed somewhat with Carol because she joked about sleeping with him quickly, she put up with stuff she shouldn't have but he was never her best friend, not really. You can confuse passion with love but love lasts longer. When she said to him, "Do you really love me, will there be regret, a young 22 year old, etc. paraphrasing, she was right. He knew women liked him, they'd say no but always came back and said yes (hated that) and he could cock his head to the side, buy kids gifts, be the good guy and then mess up.  Leaving Carol wasn't love, not caring much when she had your twin baby girls, living the dream in a big house by the water, while she struggled, just was so odd, but it was also Doug. It was always about him and who he dragged with him. Mark was right when he said that, he had enough to Doug. Being cute isn't enough reason to use people. When someone really loved Carol she didn't like it, she liked Doug who was always a step away. I just felt as I got older, that was sad.

Edited August 15, 2018 by debraran

[txhorns79]

Quote

I have no idea, but that was absolutely the worst storyline of an already godawful season.

It was just so weird.  I mean, the story was essentially this woman never attended medical school, but somehow faked her way through a residency and a medical career to the point where she was considered an excellent candidate to run a major urban ER, while simultaneously being so unstable that she has a complete meltdown over Mark Green, of all people.       

[Growsonwalls]

1 hour ago, debraran said:

My thing with Doug and Carol, was passion is great, if you like Doug's looks, he's sexy, but that was it. I thought obsessed somewhat with Carol because she joked about sleeping with him quickly, she put up with stuff she shouldn't have but he was never her best friend, not really. 

 

I disagree. Even when they weren't together or on good terms one thing the show always depicted was the affection they had for each other. Just the way they always checked in on each other and whenever Carol was truly upset the only person she wanted around was Doug. Like when she was rejected for adopting the girl with AIDS she showed up at Doug's apartment distraught and wanted to have sex and Doug was a gentleman and took her home. Also smaller scenes like this just showed their underlying affection/friendship that never went away:

 

Another thing: wow I had forgotten how annoying they made Jennifer (Mark's wife). Even when she was right (Mark worked too much, she had to make sacrifices) the way they wrote her character was so unlikable. 

ETA: was surprised that there were so many "George Clooney is short" jokes throughout the show. Is George Clooney short? 

Edited August 16, 2018 by Growsonwalls

[Bastet]

I was glad Doug and Carol rode off into the sunset together, but not for the reasons their fans were happy; I thought they both sucked as romantic partners (including to each other), and was glad they paired off to spare anyone else getting involved with either one of them. 

[Dr.OO7]

4 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

Also smaller scenes like this just showed their underlying affection/friendship that never went away:

 

 

I loved that. Even though the romantic/sexual tension of the first season had cooled off, there were still so many little moments in the second season that showed how much they cared about each other--when the Pediatric Chief is screaming at him, he looks extra humiliated that it's happening in front of Carol, she's the only one who seeks him out to ask if he's okay, when Jerry tells him his father called, it's her reaction that we see, etc.

4 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

Another thing: wow I had forgotten how annoying they made Jennifer (Mark's wife). Even when she was right (Mark worked too much, she had to make sacrifices) the way they wrote her character was so unlikable. 

God almighty, what a bitch she was. Was there anything this woman didn't complain about? And she was such a fucking hypocrite--always acting edgy and pissy about Mark's friendship with Susan, when SHE was the one who was having an affair.

[debraran]

I agree, the moments with Carol and Doug were sweet, he preferred Carol, he cared about Carol, Mark and Carol were his only real friends.  Doug felt guilty about her attempted suicide, but most of the time, she knew when temptation hit, he could bolt, even for a night. That's not love. When you drag someone in a mess as they had at the end with clinic, the sudden leaving (which I know was written as the rest by discretion of writers) was cold and quick and I felt, the writers thought was more "Doug" than someone like Mark or other male character they had. He loved Carol but as she said, it was never enough. I just made myself feel at the end, that he matured and and ignored the fact he could go without seeing his twins.  : )  (now he has them again!)  If it wasn't "sexy George Clooney" everyone would have thought Carol was nuts and when she said he was the only guy she ever loved and she wanted to see if he still loved her, it was heartfelt but sad. That was because it was written in an awkward way for a year though.  I did love the reunion though, although I felt like the patients I overheard, he wouldn't have been alone in real life or not have a date that night, lol, but he would have dropped them and been with Carol only.  It was romantic and I loved the setting and later episodes where they seem like "old married folks". I've seen types like Doug at the hospital where I work change, but many don't, even into their 60's.  Its sad.

Edited August 16, 2018 by debraran

[debraran]

5 hours ago, Camille said:

 

God almighty, what a bitch she was. Was there anything this woman didn't complain about? And she was such a fucking hypocrite--always acting edgy and pissy about Mark's friendship with Susan, when SHE was the one who was having an affair.

They did make Mark's wife unlikable but it seemed like a lot of things weren't talked about beforehand. Maybe Mark's attachment to the ER (and his contract : )  make it hard to leave, but she seemed to not be connected to him fully. I know doctor/lawyers that commute  2 hours to live half way to each others jobs in hope that one day they can find positions closer, not ideal for many, but they make it work. Nice scenes at funeral though with daughter and Elizabeth.

What about "Bob"? Did I miss what happens to the foreign doctor from Poland who wasn't a doctor here? That was weird.

Edited August 16, 2018 by debraran

[txhorns79]

Quote

What about "Bob"? Did I miss what happens to the foreign doctor from Poland who wasn't a doctor here? That was weird.

I think the character vanishes a few episodes after revealing she used to be a doctor.  

[Dr.OO7]

Yes, Bob got "Bobbed", or the trope known as Chuck Cunningham Syndrome, when a character disappears without explanation.

I admit that Jen may have had a point about some of the things she complained about, like Mark not being willing to make compromises or sacrifices to save their marriage, but she wasn't either.

[Growsonwalls]

7 hours ago, debraran said:

They did make Mark's wife unlikable but it seemed like a lot of things weren't talked about beforehand. Maybe Mark's attachment to the ER (and his contract : )  make it hard to leave, but she seemed to not be connected to him fully. I know doctor/lawyers that commute  2 hours to live half way to each others jobs in hope that one day they can find positions closer, not ideal for many, but they make it work. Nice scenes at funeral though with daughter and Elizabeth.

 

That was one thing that was weirdly written. The fact that this two hour commute was so insurmountable. I knew a mom of 3 (including a newborn girl) who made that 2 hour commute to work every day. Unlike Jennifer, my friend did NOT have a husband with a steady job. But she made it work. I've known plenty of couples who have made 2 hour commutes work. But Jennifer lost me when she started cheating on Mark. Mark was married to his job (as many doctors are) but he was a good husband and father. She gets a job and within a hot minute she's cheating on him? Bye bitch. 

More gem-like moments I'd forgotten about the early seasons: when Benton dragged Carter to Bentons family's Thanksgiving dinner after Carter was depressed about the cross-dresser killing himself. He did it in the typical brusque Benton way but still, it was a nice moment them.

Edited August 16, 2018 by Growsonwalls

[Bastet]

5 hours ago, Camille said:

I admit that Jen may have had a point about some of the things she complained about, like Mark not being willing to make compromises or sacrifices to save their marriage, but she wasn't either.

She had, for many years.  It was her turn, and he didn't acknowledge that until it was too late.  Then the writers propped Mark up by having her cheat, which overshadowed the nuance that had come before.

[Growsonwalls]

Does anyone know why they didn't have Tag as a recurring character after he and Carol broke up? I thought he was a decent character with or without the Carol romance. Did Rick Rossovich not want to come back?

When watching the early episodes I really like how the characters can be total asshats to each other but are very kind and empathetic to little kids. That's very consistent with what I know about medical professionals: I've done a double take as I've seen doctors talk to kids. Like, who is this guy?

My favorite is when Tag and Ross are bickering in front of the little boy with cancer. Tag is saying "This is not personal, it's professional" and the two hate each other. But then Tag and Ross visit the boy and it's all "Hey Tiger!" It's like some sort of unwritten rule: you don't take your anger out on a little kid in the ER.

Edited August 17, 2018 by Growsonwalls

[txhorns79]

Can I just say I thought it was very strange that Weaver asked Abby to be Henry's legal guardian in case something went wrong with her hip surgery?  I'm not sure they've even hung out outside of work, or that Abby has even been around Henry since he was born, much less that Kerry would feel close enough to her to ask her to do something like that.   I mean, I get out of the Season 12 cast, Abby is probably the only choice available, but it is kind of ridiculous that Kerry has no one else in her life to ask.  

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

Can I just say I thought it was very strange that Weaver asked Abby to be Henry's legal guardian in case something went wrong with her hip surgery?  I'm not sure they've even hung out outside of work, or that Abby has even been around Henry since he was born, much less that Kerry would feel close enough to her to ask her to do something like that.   I mean, I get out of the Season 12 cast, Abby is probably the only choice available, but it is kind of ridiculous that Kerry has no one else in her life to ask.  

If you keep watching, you'll see that TPTB are setting us up for the 'Abby is going to be the bestest mommy ever' storyline.  Having Kerry choose Abby over everyone including Sandy's family to be her son's legal guardian is supposed to make us start realizing how incredibly maternal Abby is and how Kerry recognizes her exceptional parenting abilities even though it makes no sense whatsoever.  As you watch the next several episodes, you'll notice that every single one of them has Abby dealing with some aspect of motherhood. It also wasn't an accident that Abby, in the first few days of her psych rotation, was the one to figure out how to handle the woman with the new baby who was having pseudoseizures while psychiatrists with decades more experience are baffled.  Abby is going to be the guru of motherhood from here on out, right up until she actually has a child, at which point, she acts massively annoyed that he needs her attention.

Of course, it also seems ridiculous that Kerry has spent her whole life with a serious disability using a crutch when she could've been cured by hip replacement surgery which has been widely available in the US since before she was born.

Edited August 17, 2018 by doodlebug

[Growsonwalls]

Oh man, I just ugly cried watching the episode with Tatiana and the dog again. That might be the saddest ER scene of all time, Tatiana hugging that dog. 

And it reminds me of the shameful days in the 1990's when unfortunately people often did drop off patients with AIDS in the ER and turn around and walk right back out. 

[Dr.OO7]

10 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

My favorite is when Tag and Ross are bickering in front of the little boy with cancer. Tag is saying "This is not personal, it's professional" and the two hate each other. But then Tag and Ross visit the boy and it's all "Hey Tiger!" It's like some sort of unwritten rule: you don't take your anger out on a little kid in the ER.

I loved that. No matter how much they disliked each other, they still had professional respect for each other. A stark contrast to how people behaved in later seasons.

This show lost so many of the nuances that made it great.

Season 1, Benton's mother dies.

Doug: Hey, Peter. I heard about your mom. I'm sorry.

Peter: Thanks.

The two of them barely interacted, but we still got that little moment.

Fast forward to Season 8, when Carter's grandfather dies and no one in the ER, people he's known and worked with for YEARS, even KNOWS. And fast forward to Season 9, when his grandmother dies and it's the same thing. Even though this time people are aware, Abby is the only member of the ER staff to show up. Seriously? No one else could get the time off to be there for their friend and colleague?

10 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

Does anyone know why they didn't have Tag as a recurring character after he and Carol broke up? I thought he was a decent character with or without the Carol romance. Did Rick Rossovich not want to come back?

He was a Disposable Fiancé. He served his purpose and was done. I think it would have been much too awkward, not to mention raised the possibility of him and Carol reconciling, to keep him around.

Edited August 17, 2018 by Camille

[Growsonwalls]

4 minutes ago, Camille said:

I loved that. No matter how much they disliked each other, they still had professional respect for each other. A stark contrast to how people behaved in later seasons.

This show lost so many of the nuances that made it great.

Season 1, Benton's mother dies.

Doug: Hey, Peter. I heard about your mom. I'm sorry.

Peter: Thanks.

Another really nice moment where people who weren't close had nice interactions was when the crew went to the diner to pig out on junk food. Benton was that one doctor who insisted on healthy food in the diner (asking for salads, etc.). He's also sitting alone, indicating he's not as tight with the Doug/Carol/Mark crew. But then he says "hey guys Carol's got something to announce" and he's smiling, like he's happy for Carol and psyched for her upcoming wedding. I really love that feel of the early seasons, that it mimicked an office where yeah there was politics and yeah there was soap opera drama but people had professional respect for each other.

Another awesome thing in the early shows that the later shows lost: the scrubs looked like loose-fitting scrubs that flatter no one's figure. Later seasons I started to notice how the scrubs became more tailored and fitted and less resembled actual hospital scrubs.

[izabella]

2 hours ago, Camille said:

Fast forward to Season 8, when Carter's grandfather dies and no one in the ER, people he's worked with for years, even KNOWS. And fast forward to Season 9, when his grandmother dies and it's the same thing. Even though this time people are aware, Abby is the only member of the ER staff to show up. Seriously? No one else could get the time off to be there for their friend and colleague?

Carter's grandmother funded Carole's clinic, too.  I would have thought someone would care about that.

[Everleigh]

4 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Can I just say I thought it was very strange that Weaver asked Abby to be Henry's legal guardian in case something went wrong with her hip surgery?  I'm not sure they've even hung out outside of work, or that Abby has even been around Henry since he was born, much less that Kerry would feel close enough to her to ask her to do something like that.   I mean, I get out of the Season 12 cast, Abby is probably the only choice available, but it is kind of ridiculous that Kerry has no one else in her life to ask.  

I feel like this is pretty standard on TV shows—characters’ lives tend to exist inside of a vacuum solely involving the other main characters so outside family/friends don’t really factor in like you’d expect in real life. But in this scenario, as unwarranted as it seemed, I think it was done to show that Kerry had grown and softened and formed meaningful relationships with the people she worked with. She was no longer the mean dragon lady boss everybody hated, she was a friend (to some at least) and as a friend, she was reaching out and entrusting Abby with this major thing in her life, that was never actually going to happen but whatever. 

I actually kind of liked the idea of Kerry and Abby’s friendship but I felt we were told more about it than we were shown. They have this moment where Kerry asks Abby to take custody of her son in case of emergency, and then they have that teary goodbye scene when Kerry leaves so we know they’re meant to mean something to each other, but we don’t really see much of it. But Abby never dismissed Kerry as bitch simply for being the boss and Kerry trusted Abby’s abilities more than Abby did at times, so there seemed to be a mutual respect there for the most part.

[debraran]

Yes, Tag must have transferred because his consults seemed to have ended in the ER : )   Just like Shep and others stopped coming to the ER. I liked it when you would see others as a semi-recurring regular, it gave it a touch of authenticity. I wished the Nigerian janitor Mobilage Ekabo could have made an appearance with Mark before he died to tell him how well he was doing.

I thought Kerry asking Abby was odd too and for whatever reason, I never thought of Abby as motherly at all. She seemed much too wrapped up in her own angst and fears and wouldn't have room for another set of them. I felt as sad as it was, her reaction to her son was accurate, she seemed overwhelmed, his illness was her illness in a way and she couldn't handle being alone with him or her alcoholism and wouldn't ask for help.  Not the "will you be my guardian" material but it made a friendship more cemented on TV with Kerry.

I am a different age group from the family members watching The Good Doctor the other day but I exclaimed when they had a  main character have her bi-polar mother come to the hospital and cause a scene, "Hey that's stolen from ER!" They had blank look but it showed me how well Sally Field nailed it comparing.

Edited August 17, 2018 by debraran

[txhorns79]

Quote

I feel like this is pretty standard on TV shows—characters’ lives tend to exist inside of a vacuum solely involving the other main characters so outside family/friends don’t really factor in like you’d expect in real life. But in this scenario, as unwarranted as it seemed, I think it was done to show that Kerry had grown and softened and formed meaningful relationships with the people she worked with. She was no longer the mean dragon lady boss everybody hated, she was a friend (to some at least) and as a friend, she was reaching out and entrusting Abby with this major thing in her life, that was never actually going to happen but whatever. 

You are right.  It is pretty standard on tv for the characters to react to important events as though the other main characters are the only other people in their lives.  It reminded me a little of Elizabeth's last scene before exiting the series.  Her big goodbye was to Carter, despite the fact that she and Carter seemed to rarely interact with one another during their respective times on the show.     

[starri]

16 hours ago, debraran said:

I am a different age group from the family members watching The Good Doctor the other day but I exclaimed when they had a  main character have her bi-polar mother come to the hospital and cause a scene, "Hey that's stolen from ER!" They had blank look but it showed me how well Sally Field nailed it comparing.

"Manic" is something that it seems like actors have an easy time playing, but a hard time playing well, and the psychiatrist in me was quite impressed by how well Field and especially Tom Everett Scott nailed it.

[Growsonwalls]

So I finished all of season 1 in a record 3 days. I had seen episodes here and there but just decided to watch one season the whole way through.

First of all, when you watch everything in consecutive order, here are a few things that become more obvious:

1) I first realized Doug and Carol were meant to be when Doug was the only one who was behind her efforts to adopt Tatiana. Before then their storyline had been the typical soap opera stuff but after that storyline I realized that Doug and Carol are united not just by sexual passion but by a single-minded passion for their work.  Very often it's the second passion that binds couples together for the long haul after the first kind of passion fades. (Bill and Hillary anyone?)

2) Is there a TV show in recent memory that has such an essentially positive view of humanity? Yes there are the child abuse/drug abuse/domestic violence cases in the ER and the people who work in the ER all have moments when they're being total shits. But overall there's this sense of good people doing good things everyday that I think was a big reason for the show's immediate success.

3) I remember watching the Peter and his mother story way back when and thinking he was an awful son but on rewatch my heart goes out to Peter more. Surgical residency is an extremely demanding field and I think in his mind he was just waiting for the days when he could be making megabucks as a surgeon and treat his mama right. 

4) God 90's fashion! Baggy high-waisted jeans, big scrunchies tying together short permed ponytails! Tan/earth-toned suits. Ah, those were the days.

5) I really shipped Carter and Susan. Always wondered why they didn't go anywhere with that. Maybe back then the May-December relationship was considered too much for networks? But I thought they were cute.

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

5) I really shipped Carter and Susan. Always wondered why they didn't go anywhere with that. Maybe back then the May-December relationship was considered too much for networks? But I thought they were cute.

Table for two. At least V1.0.  The revisit in S8 was just a mess, for so many reasons. But I agree with you overall.

[txhorns79]

Quote

Maybe back then the May-December relationship was considered too much for networks? But I thought they were cute.

May- December?  Sherry Stringfield is a grand total of four years older than Noah Wyle.  Even their characters aren't all that far apart in age.  Now it didn't help that Susan was dressed like she could be Carter's mom, but she isn't that old. 

[Growsonwalls]

5 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

May- December?  Sherry Stringfield is a grand total of four years older than Noah Wyle.  Even their characters aren't all that far apart in age.  Now it didn't help that Susan was dressed like she could be Carter's mom, but she isn't that old. 

But in terms of the characters I got the feeling Susan was in her mid-30's and Carter was like 24 or 25? 

As for Susan's hair/dress/makeup it was really dowdy. I remember being shocked because when she was Blake on Guiding Light she played a sort of vixen sexpot and was always dressed real sexy. 

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Growsonwalls said:

But in terms of the characters I got the feeling Susan was in her mid-30's and Carter was like 24 or 25? 

As for Susan's hair/dress/makeup it was really dowdy. I remember being shocked because when she was Blake on Guiding Light she played a sort of vixen sexpot and was always dressed real sexy. 

No way was Susan mid 30s as - when she left in S3 - she was still a resident. (She turned down Chief Resident.) Sherry Stringfield was likely almost the same age as Susan, but she could exhibit more mature vibes. And let us remember, even if she didn't act like it, Chloe was Susan's older sister.

[Dr.OO7]

19 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

3) I remember watching the Peter and his mother story way back when and thinking he was an awful son but on rewatch my heart goes out to Peter more. Surgical residency is an extremely demanding field and I think in his mind he was just waiting for the days when he could be making megabucks as a surgeon and treat his mama right. 

That story really went towards humanizing him. That for all his knowledge and skills, he reacted to his mother's increasing frailty like a lot of people would--with complete denial.

I love the cruel irony that when he gives someone an "I'm sorry" speech, it sounds kind and touching, but when he gets the exact same speech from his mother's doctor, it sounds cold and detached.

If the character and actress ages are in line, Susan was 27-29 dury her first time on the show and 34 onward when she came back. 

[Growsonwalls]

44 minutes ago, Camille said:

That story really went towards humanizing him. That for all his knowledge and skills, he reacted to his mother's increasing frailty like a lot of people would--with complete denial.

I love the cruel irony that when he gives someone an "I'm sorry" speech, it sounds kind and touching, but when he gets the exact same speech from his mother's doctor, it sounds cold and detached.

I also love the cruel irony that as a surgeon who specializes in emergency trauma incidences that Benton missed the obvious signs of dementia that an internal medicine specialist might have picked up more quickly.

Onto season 2 now, watching in chronological order. I rewatched the episode where Weaver is introduced to the staff and I can understand why she didn't get on with Ross but Susan's instant hatred of her seems odd. Weaver said some very kind things about little Susie and there was nothing Weaver did that would warrant that kind of dislike.

[MVFrostsMyPie]

Susan's haircut and overall style really aged her when she came back. I think she had recently had a baby right? Still, they could have dressed her in something more flattering. 

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

Susan's haircut and overall style really aged her when she came back. I think she had recently had a baby right? Still, they could have dressed her in something more flattering. 

Thankfully, Sherry Stringfield grew her hair out in a hurry. But that was a horrible haircut.

[CrazyInAlabama]

I think Susan's reaction to Kerry coming in just reminded her that she would never be chief resident, and she would have to take orders from Kerry who never rarely seemed human in the early season she was on.      

 

The one character I couldn't stand was Mark Greene's daughter Rachel.    She got away with so much, and never had any consequences.    I can't believe after Corday's Ella was poisoned with Ecstasy that nothing was reported, and Greene wanted them all in the same house.   Then when Mark was dying, and they were in Hawaii, she acted like it was a vacation for her, and ignored her father's imminent death.     Then when she came back with that boyfriend and asked Corday for Plan B, and wanted to stay at Corday's house, it was ridiculous.     The fact that Carter told the other doctors that Rachel would be a great doctor, and should be in the program at County was ignoring everything she did before, just because of who her father was.      I wonder why Carter thought that her past performance through the years was really over, and no more drugs, or bad decisions, since he knew nothing about her?    I found it laughable that someone who apparently had so many issues at school, and seemed to get suspended all of the time would have the grades for medical school.  

Edited August 19, 2018 by CrazyInAlabama

[MVFrostsMyPie]

Well, people have the ability to change (and often do) as they grow older.

[Growsonwalls]

39 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I think Susan's reaction to Kerry coming in just reminded her that she would never be chief resident, and she would have to take orders from Kerry who never rarely seemed human in the early season she was on.      

Kerry could be abrasive and overbearing but one head scratcher was Susan getting upset over Kerry giving her a lighter schedule. Kerry said (correctly) that Susan was going through a lot and needed a lighter caseload. Which is ... what Susan ended up asking for when she realized caring for Susie would be a lot more time-consuming than expected. (Actually Susan asked for a part-time residency.) So I thought this was a case where Kerry was trying to be sensitive to Susan's child-care needs and Susan's reaction was kind of bitchy. 

[doodlebug]

11 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I think Susan's reaction to Kerry coming in just reminded her that she would never be chief resident, and she would have to take orders from Kerry who never rarely seemed human in the early season she was on.      

 

The one character I couldn't stand was Mark Greene's daughter Rachel.    She got away with so much, and never had any consequences.    I can't believe after Corday's Ella was poisoned with Ecstasy that nothing was reported, and Greene wanted them all in the same house.   Then when Mark was dying, and they were in Hawaii, she acted like it was a vacation for her, and ignored her father's imminent death.     Then when she came back with that boyfriend and asked Corday for Plan B, and wanted to stay at Corday's house, it was ridiculous.     The fact that Carter told the other doctors that Rachel would be a great doctor, and should be in the program at County was ignoring everything she did before, just because of who her father was.      I wonder why Carter thought that her past performance through the years was really over, and no more drugs, or bad decisions, since he knew nothing about her?    I found it laughable that someone who apparently had so many issues at school, and seemed to get suspended all of the time would have the grades for medical school.  

I think that Susan was predisposed to dislike Kerry because she was close friends with another ER resident, the never-seen Linda, who was Kerry's rival for the job of Chief Resident.  Susan was upset that her friend didn't get the job that Kerry got, and it made her less receptive to Kerry than she might otherwise have been.  Them, of course, they were complete opposites personality-wise and that kept the animosity going.  While Kerry was perhaps trying to be sensitive and helpful when she suggested Susan take a lighter schedule, she said it in such a way that Susan felt Kerry was implying that she wasn't doing a good enough job with her current workload.  Kerry did have a way of insinuating that people weren't cutting it, even if she didn't mean it.

As for their ages, we know that Carter was exactly a year older than NW, same birthday and all.  The show debuted in 1994 when Noah was 23, so Carter would've been 24.  I don't think we ever got a birth date on Susan, but, she was a second year ER resident in 1994-95.  Presuming she went straight through from high school to undergrad to medical school and then residency; she would've been about 28 in 1994.  The age gap between Carter and Susan was just about the same as the one between Sherry and Noah, 4 years.  Nobody would've batted an eye if the genders were reversed; a 24 year old woman with a 28 year old man would seem quite normal.

[starri]

23 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Presuming she went straight through from high school to undergrad to medical school and then residency; she would've been about 28 in 1994.  The age gap between Carter and Susan was just about the same as the one between Sherry and Noah, 4 years.  Nobody would've batted an eye if the genders were reversed; a 24 year old woman with a 28 year old man would seem quite normal.

There is the frowned-upon power imbalance of a resident schtumpfing a med student, although that sort of thing got increasingly common as the show went on.  And yes, I know it happens in real life as well.  I just think in the years with greater verisimilitude, they'd have shied away from it.  Abby Keaton was afraid she was going to be blackmailed by Peter after he caught her with Intern Carter.

[h8omb]

Just rewatched the season 3 episode where Susan leaves and it also has that really fun scene with Lydia and Al getting married in the ER. Chuny walking by in the middle of the ceremony yelling "anyone got that stool culture?!" was funny and the whole thing really highlighted how likable most of the characters were in the early seasons. They were believable as a bunch of "in the trenches" healthcare workers who had known each other for years and genuinely liked each other despite their professional differences of opinion and workplace spats.

[Growsonwalls]

Just rewatched the classic "Hell or High Water" with Doug rescuing the boy. Man it shows you how strong my memory was of the original viewing that I even remembered little details like Doug trying to smoke that joint. Such a great episode. Doug saving that boy was so reckless, but so Doug ... 

As for the Chinese boy with AIDS and the end-stage care argument between Greene and Ross, I cried again watching that. Such a gut-wrenching choice and even though AIDS is treatable nowadays these kinds of terminal disease treatment arguments still happen everyday. It never gets easier. Ask Dr. Benton, who also wasn't ready to give up on his mama no matter how ill she was.

another scene that I remember watching over 20 years ago that still hits me hard is the battered wife of the cop. I felt so much for Benton, because doctors are so helpless in cases like that. If the woman is not willing to cooperate there's not much they can do. 

[Dr.OO7]

55 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Just rewatched the classic "Hell or High Water" with Doug rescuing the boy. Man it shows you how strong my memory was of the original viewing that I even remembered little details like Doug trying to smoke that joint. Such a great episode. Doug saving that boy was so reckless, but so Doug ... 

My all time favorite episode. I had only watched sporadically until then, but I was a loyal viewer from then on. Spectacular.

[Growsonwalls]

Still going through season 2 episode by episode and I had totally forgotten that gem of a moment when Benton tells Carter he has a hickey in the most Benton way possible: "Carter, you have a hematoma on your neck."

[Growsonwalls]

Making my way through season 2, now more than halfway through the season.

- Man, Jen breaking up with Mark was exactly as I remembered it too: so cold, especially since he rushed all the way to the hospital to be with her. Mark was a good father and husband. Not perfect, but faithful and responsible. 

- The Carol/Shep story annoys me because with Tag I could see the appeal. Nice, boring stand-up guy. Different from playboy Doug. I always thought Shep was a douchebag even before that racism episode and so I just want to fast forward because it's so obvious these two are not long for the relationship world.

- I loved Mark celebrating Hanukah in his own way at the hospital. I like when shows acknowledge the spiritual/religious side of people, and I say this as someone who's never been to church a day in my life.

- The Jeanie story really brought back memories of the conversations that would happen across living rooms all across the USA in the 90s about AIDS in the workplace. There was so much fear and ignorance then. Even wonderful, liberal, open-minded people had this fear and ignorance. So glad those days are over.

[Dr.OO7]

54 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Man, Jen breaking up with Mark was exactly as I remembered it too: so cold, especially since he rushed all the way to the hospital to be with her. Mark was a good father and husband. Not perfect, but faithful and responsible. 

You wake up from the surgery and the first thing you say to your husband is "Is Craig still here?"

Jeez.

And could Craig have been any more obvious? You're fine, your daughter is fine, and Jen's husband is here. There is no reason for you to stick around.

I hate how you can see it slowly but surely dawning on Mark what's going on.

What a bitch. Always complaining about his friendship with Susan when SHE was the one cheating.

[Growsonwalls]

6 minutes ago, Camille said:

You wake up from the surgery and the first thing you say to your husband is "Is Craig still here?"

Jeez.

And could Craig have been any more obvious? You're fine, your daughter is fine, and Jen's husband is here. There is no reason for you to stick around.

I hate how you can see it slowly but surely dawning on Mark what's going on.

What a bitch. Always complaining about his friendship with Susan when SHE was the one cheating.

also, Mark had already been commuting to Milwaukee so that "two hour commute" which shouldn't even be a problem was no longer a problem. Jen was such a bitch. I hated her.

I also thought Craig sticking around in the ER was a dick move. He should have taken one look at Mark and been like "I'm going to leave this guy alone to face the end of his marriage." 

Jeez, it's a testament to how great this show was that even to this day when I think about Jen cheating on Mark I get mad.

[Growsonwalls]

Ok i'm going to need a 24 hour hiatus after watching both "Baby Shower" and "The Healers." Raul's death was one of the saddest ER episodes of all time, and Baby Shower was also masterful for the way it interwove so many pregnancies and their individual storylines within one hour. I still remember watching the mother who was dying of cancer holding her baby and cried, just like I did so many years ago.

I loved that Benton for once let up on Carter when Carter couldn't go through with the surgery for the burnt beyond recognition Raul. Him telling Carter that at least he stayed upright was as warm and cuddly as Benton ever got.

They did a great job casting Doug's dad. The physical resemblance between James Farentino and George Clooney (down to height and build) was striking. 

On a lighter note, I love that the writers have continuity regarding personalities. In season 1 Susan says that telling Doug something is like "broadcasting it over the intercom." Cue to Season 2, and Carter gossips about seeing Susan and Mark together on a train, soon Carol and Doug are in a dish session, and then the whole hospital knows. Heh. 

I also love the fact that Carol smoothly fends off any thorny questions whenever she senses Doug's irritated. For instance when Mark Greene asks a little too much about Doug's dad Carol jumps in with the media spokeperson-like soundbite that "Doug's seen his dad several times. He's trying."

[MVFrostsMyPie]

Speaking of Carol, there were two memorable times that really made me want to punch her in her smug face:

- the morning after Lucy/Carter got stabbed and her complaining about how they were down a doctor and a medical student. Maybe it was supposed to sound factual (thank you, Captain Obvious), but the way it came across sounded like it was an inconvenience that two people got stabbed. And she didn't seem particularly concerned, like she looked like she was preparing for her day like normal.

- when she was laughing at Kovic and not taking it seriously when he was expressing that he was upset with how she used him to get her way with (I think) Kerry about a patient whose wishes she wanted to go against or something and got him in trouble too. And then later when she's giving her unnecessary speech about how he'll find love again and blah blah blah before she runs off to Doug. It's like when your ex is dumping you, but trying to convince you that you'll be so much happier (and yeah, sure, you will, but you don't want to hear it from the person who is dumping you, *especially* while they're about to immediately run off to the person they actually love. Like, dig that sword in a little deeper, why don't you?)

[Dr.OO7]

1 hour ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

- the morning after Lucy/Carter got stabbed and her complaining about how they were down a doctor and a medical student. Maybe it was supposed to sound factual (thank you, Captain Obvious), but the way it came across sounded like it was an inconvenience that two people got stabbed. And she didn't seem particularly concerned, like she looked like she was preparing for her day like normal.

The only flaw in a terrific episode. I don't know what was worse, that she said it like she barely knew either of them or like they were out with the flu, instead of DEAD and almost dead. That wasn't the Carol I knew and loved.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Camille

[PepSinger]

That "doc and a med student" line is beyond terrible. Julianna Margulies had clearly checked out at that point.

[debraran]

6 hours ago, PepSinger said:

That "doc and a med student" line is beyond terrible. Julianna Margulies had clearly checked out at that point.

It might not work, but as an actress, I think I would have said, "My long time character just wouldn't say this' to the writers. At that point maybe she didn't care, give me the check, but sometimes they listen and rewrite. I heard of others there that did that or tried.

[doodlebug]

5 hours ago, debraran said:

It might not work, but as an actress, I think I would have said, "My long time character just wouldn't say this' to the writers. At that point maybe she didn't care, give me the check, but sometimes they listen and rewrite. I heard of others there that did that or tried.

That line really hit with a giant 'THUD'.  Even if Carol hadn't known them both for years, it was tremendously insensitive and clueless.  If TPTB really wanted to drive home the point that the ER needed to carry on no matter what, it would've been far better had some previously unseen hospital administrator come to Carol and asked what was being done to address the staffing issue and then Carol could let 'em have it for being so callous while also remembering she had a job to do and needed to find help.