All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[Racj82]

4 hours ago, Camille said:

To his credit, Ray didn't know the girl was 14, was horrified when he learned, ended it immediately, and rebuffed all of her efforts to keep it going.

I was more judging the show for making these extreme age difference with people underage. No judgement on Ray. I would never have thought she was 14. And the fact that he was done from the moment he heard the info cleared things up.

[debraran]

I pretty much stopped watching when John Stamos came on ER, seeing a show here and there with old favorites. One good thing is now they are more fresh to me.  I found this while looking up his character and it's a cool shot with his old pals from ER in 2007. Quite a momento...

https://www.today.com/popculture/john-stamos-had-very-happy-reunion-his-old-er-co-t120237

[Gigi43]

2 hours ago, Racj82 said:

I was more judging the show for making these extreme age difference with people underage. No judgement on Ray. I would never have thought she was 14. And the fact that he was done from the moment he heard the info cleared things up.

 

Ray's was at least handled right. I will forever judge the writers for thinking it was fine to have Susan and Abby laugh at Carter being 12 with an adult maid complete  with laughing  "was she paid to have sex with you?"  God I hate that episode  (...obviously. )

 

Gallant was bland the first time around. Given the real world events I kind of figured his character would get that ending as seasons went on. However since going on to like Sherif Atkins on White Collar I admit I like Gallant more in reruns. 

 

No matter how many times Ive listened to Lose Yourself or seen 8 Mile,  however, it doesn't make me like Pratt more. My favorite Pratt scene is still Mark Green not having time for Bullshit and calling Pratts apology out with "someone told you I'm dying? " ha! And that was Pratts first episode  (and one of my favorite episodes ) so what does that say?

Edited June 2, 2018 by Gigi43

[doodlebug]

14 hours ago, Racj82 said:

Thoughts after getting up to season 13 on rewatch.

I hate the new ER theme. Always did. Although, I understand why they dropped the opening credits in general. There is literal whole in the opening for season 12 with so many people leaving in season 11 and 12.

I remember being infuriated when Susan left the second time. One, because I was like you are leaving again randomly. Right in the middle of your arc of running the er? Second, because that was last og cast member and she's written off off screen? Come on.

Yeah I have to concede regarding Clemente. By the end of his arc I was like, kill this man. He's horrible.

What's with the statutory rape on this show? Extremely statutory among the crew. Like ages not defendable in any state. Ray with a 14 year old. Carter losing his virginity to a adult at 12. Sam hooking up with a guy in his 20s at 15. Blech.

Carter was actually 11 when the 25 year old maid raped him. It’s not even his age, it’s the lack of concern from his so called friends that was appalling. Somewhere around a quarter of all kids have at least 1 sexually inappropriate experience while growing up. It’s not that he was molested, it’s that a bunch of medical professionals found it hilarious.  In that episode, the others also spoke about their first time. Maybe I travel I very different circles, but, other than Luka, every single one was a younger teen, 14 or 15.  I know a bit about teens and their sexual debuts (actual medical term there). Most are not sexually active at those ages, especially kids who are doing well in school and planning for college; ie future doctors and nurses.  It was unrealistic, but I find TV and films often present an unrealistic picture of teen sexuality, often portraying them as far more precocious, and promiscuous than in real life.

[Dr.OO7]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

Carter was actually 11 when the 25 year old maid raped him. It’s not even his age, it’s the lack of concern from his so called friends that was appalling. Somewhere around a quarter of all kids have at least 1 sexually inappropriate experience while growing up. It’s not that he was molested, it’s that a bunch of medical professionals found it hilarious.

As pointed out by another recapper, if they thought he was telling the truth, they should have reacted with horror and compassion, and if they thought he was lying, they should have blasted him for joking about something so abhorrent. 

[debraran]

I think, especially today that story line was not a good one the way they handled it, especially with Carter being so young. He didn't seem happy about it so I felt that set the tone. I don't think some of these episodes would be shot the same way today.

I also feel Sam and Alex are a crazy mother/son pair. I'm just up to when he saw his Mom kill his father, but even before, taking him from place to place, school to school, moving in with Luka, then the wealthy patient, Gates if I remember correctly later.  Everyone says what a good mom she is but it seems like stability and common sense are not always prevalent. Lying to your son about his dad, changing jobs monthly or yearly just seems so over the top. I would rebel too, he is never in any safe place and sees so much turmoil and craziness and then it's "go to school, do your homework"  Maybe it gets better in later episodes but I doubt it. 

[Dr.OO7]

I couldn't stand Alex. I remember the episode that ended with him getting into a car with a stranger. Everyone on TWOP was freaking out over the possibility of him being kidnapped/raped/murdered and I scoffed that given the kind of kid Alex was, the person who was really in danger was the DRIVER.

Plus, the "Infant Immortality" trope and all.

He got his act together as he got older, though.

[Racj82]

50 minutes ago, Camille said:

I couldn't stand Alex. I remember the episode that ended with him getting into a car with a stranger. Everyone on TWOP was freaking out over the possibility of him being kidnapped/raped/murdered and I scoffed that given the kind of kid Alex was, the person who was really in danger was the DRIVER.

Plus, the "Infant Immortality" trope and all.

He got his act together as he got older, though.

Wow, people were worried about Alex? I don't remember that.

I forgot to add how ridiculous Sam's season 12 hair is. Of course, it's tv and all and the ER is filled with great hair for no reason. But, my god. It's all feathered and stylish. For a nurse. A supposed ran ragged nurse. 

I must admit that Stamps, in my opinion, was the most charming man since Clooney on the show. He always nails the loveable scamp. 

They missed a great teaching point between Gates and Pratt. Gates, in season 13, had a cases with male partners where one of the men was dying and his only hope was not a great chance for survival but he did it anyway to appease the lover who was more family to him than the real family and there orders to let him die. Against Pratts orders. It worked but the man was still brain dead. Pratt chewed him out on this. All justified but I wish the writers would have relayed through Pratt to Gates the story of how Pratt dud the same damn thing against Carter's orders. Gates shouldn't have done it anyway but I think he would have gotten it much faster if relayed real examples to him. Use your history show.

[debraran]

40 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

Wow, people were worried about Alex? I don't remember that.

I forgot to add how ridiculous Sam's season 12 hair is. Of course, it's tv and all and the ER is filled with great hair for no reason. But, my god. It's all feathered and stylish. For a nurse. A supposed ran ragged nurse. 

I must admit that Stamps, in my opinion, was the most charming man since Clooney on the show. He always nails the loveable scamp. 

They missed a great teaching point between Gates and Pratt. Gates, in season 13, had a cases with male partners where one of the men was dying and his only hope was not a great chance for survival but he did it anyway to appease the lover who was more family to him than the real family and there orders to let him die. Against Pratts orders. It worked but the man was still brain dead. Pratt chewed him out on this. All justified but I wish the writers would have relayed through Pratt to Gates the story of how Pratt dud the same damn thing against Carter's orders. Gates shouldn't have done it anyway but I think he would have gotten it much faster if relayed real examples to him. Use your history show.

I was thinking that same thing watching it yesterday! Didn't Pratt do the same thing? In the early shows they educated more that way, maybe new writers "forgot" what others did but the Pratt actor didn't. I kept waiting and waiting for that foot to drop.

I also thought maybe they'd have Carrie in there too and she was in ER at the time. She went through her own discrimination with Sandy and Henry and family. It might have been nice to hear her thoughts or maybe it would have been too much and still not her call.

Do they ever bring up Gates not reading well, he seems dyslexic and that would have been another educational moment.  I think if it were Green and not Pratt, he would have picked up on it.

Edited June 2, 2018 by debraran

[Dr.OO7]

44 minutes ago, debraran said:

I forgot to add how ridiculous Sam's season 12 hair is. Of course, it's tv and all and the ER is filled with great hair for no reason. But, my god. It's all feathered and stylish. For a nurse. A supposed ran ragged nurse. 

Things like that drive me crazy. When I started my rotations (I'm a doctor), everyone with long hair was warned, if not outright ordered, to wear our hair pulled back or up. Hair isn't sterile and if loose, can easily get into a wound and contaminate it, or itself get soiled by the various body fluids that can go flying at any time, or worse yet, get grabbed onto by an agitated patient.

[Racj82]

38 minutes ago, Camille said:

Things like that drive me crazy. When I started my rotations (I'm a doctor), everyone with long hair was warned, if not outright ordered, to wear our hair pulled back or up. Hair isn't sterile and if loose, can easily get into a wound and contaminate it, or itself get soiled by the various body fluids that can go flying at any time, or worse yet, get grabbed onto by an agitated patient.

That makes perfect sense. The show  was never 100% airtight in terms of how a hospital would run or how the staff would be presented but I feel like at least they looked  grounded and more professional looking before they had to compete with the Grey's of the world. Pretty people = ratings!

Sam's hair was especially glaring to me though. 

While watching Forrest Whitaker's guest spot I'm just hit with how much they leaned on guest spots with every passing season. Like the massive patient events, I feel like the guest spots were more thought out and spaced out early on. Made them mean more.

I still remember Rosemary Clooney in a way I don't with many other bigger names. Her asking if Carter was coming home with her almost made me tear up upon rewatch. 

I think it was two fold. One, it got them headlines while viewership was lagging. Also, it was the only way they got Emmy nominations later on. It may even be the precursor to many movie stars making the jump to tv for more interesting roles and...more awards.

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, Camille said:

Things like that drive me crazy. When I started my rotations (I'm a doctor), everyone with long hair was warned, if not outright ordered, to wear our hair pulled back or up. Hair isn't sterile and if loose, can easily get into a wound and contaminate it, or itself get soiled by the various body fluids that can go flying at any time, or worse yet, get grabbed onto by an agitated patient.

Absolutely, and, with nurses and other personnel, it is often spelled out in the employee handbook as part of the job rules. Don't get me started on Abby working in the ER, doing complex procedures with her hair hanging in her eyes.  I have no idea how she managed to see what she was doing, let alone didn't contaminate her work site every time. Lucy also had her hair hanging down all the time; I would've been told to find a rubber band as a student had I come to the wards like that. Corday and Anna managed to keep their hair out of the way most of the time which is really the only way to work in direct patient care.  I had waist length hair through med school and the into the third year of residency.  If I didn't tie it back, it got tangled in the earpieces of the stethoscope, dragged across pregnant bellies as I measured them and got doppler goop in it when I listened to fetal heartones.  I ended up with a large collection of barrettes, rubber bands and hairpins and managed to get my hair out of the way, there's no reason the show couldn't have done the same.

It also bugged me that, especially as the seasons passed, the nurses and docs wore more and more makeup at work.  In the first season, Carol and Susan wore some makeup, but minimal.  In scenes where they're not at work, like at Carol's non-wedding, it's obvious that they are wearing more makeup/stronger colors than everyday which is what most women wear.  However, as the seasons wore on, Carol's work look got stronger to the point where she was more glam on a daily basis than at her first season wedding.  Unrealistic.  

Edited June 2, 2018 by doodlebug

[starri]

I was bugged by the scrubs.  In the early seasons they were what scrubs actually are:  utilitarian, shapeless, and they fit oddly.  As the show went on, the ones the principles wore tended to be more and more tailored.

I've never understood which a discipline that requires long hair be pulled back also requires men to wear ties.

[debraran]

14 hours ago, starri said:

I was bugged by the scrubs.  In the early seasons they were what scrubs actually are:  utilitarian, shapeless, and they fit oddly.  As the show went on, the ones the principles wore tended to be more and more tailored.

I've never understood which a discipline that requires long hair be pulled back also requires men to wear ties.

Ties are dirty, so many of the docs where I worked at Yale tucked them into their shirts.  You don't see it as much now. The white coats get filthy too and some aren't washed as often as they should be, those sleeves get into a lot. ; )

Edited June 3, 2018 by debraran

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, debraran said:

Ties are dirty, so many of the docs where I worked at Yale tucked them into their shirts.  You don't see it as much now. The white coats get filthy too and some aren't washed as often as they should be, those sleeves get into a lot. ; )

Absolutely.  These days, most ER docs don't wear ties.  The ER docs at the large hospital system where I work are supposed to wear a polo shirt with the hospital logo on it or scrubs while at work.  It's been that way for at least a decade.

White coats are germ catchers and the person wearing it ends up hauling a bunch of unnecessary stuff around in the pockets which is why I stopped wearing mine 30 years ago.  I have a white coat, tailored and everything, with my name on it because the hospital system where I work issues at least one to everyone.  I wore it once when required for a photo.  Otherwise, it's hanging on the door in my office, still in the plastic back it came in.  Who knows, maybe I'll wear it again someday.

[Racj82]

The discussion of great Christmas episodes was talked about earlier. I have to throw season 13, City of Mercy, into the ring.

The homeless woman reuniting with her family on Christmas day, Morris not taking advantage of Hope while continuing to grow, Luka saying that he now realizes that he wasn't running away from anything in Croatia but running towards Abby, the wrap up of the street kids. Really good stuff. Someone needs to take a razor to Ray's mustache though.

[debraran]

4 hours ago, Racj82 said:

The discussion of great Christmas episodes was talked about earlier. I have to throw season 13, City of Mercy, into the ring.

The homeless woman reuniting with her family on Christmas day, Morris not taking advantage of Hope while continuing to grow, Luka saying that he now realizes that he wasn't running away from anything in Croatia but running towards Abby, the wrap up of the street kids. Really good stuff. Someone needs to take a razor to Ray's mustache though.

I just watched that yesterday, even the corny Morris on rooftop yelling "there isn't a Santa"after feeling some remorse after being so "good" then having it snow and hearing jingle bells. ; )  Seeing Morris play Santa was funny but touching too. I liked how they tied up the homeless kids episode, they don't do that often and seeing the homeless woman reunite with her family, hey it's Xmas, some smiles are in order

[Lozu68]

I just found this board...I am SO EXCITED!! Having recently binged all 15 seasons on Hulu...been dying to dissect episodes!! Looking forward to reading and posting!!

[RedbirdNelly]

28 minutes ago, Lozu68 said:

I just found this board...I am SO EXCITED!! Having recently binged all 15 seasons on Hulu...been dying to dissect episodes!! Looking forward to reading and posting!!

welcome! this is the first board on here where I went from quietly lurking to posting and it's very friendly.

[Racj82]

1 hour ago, RedbirdNelly said:

welcome! this is the first board on here where I went from quietly lurking to posting and it's very friendly.

Yeah, I usually lurk because so much discussion on tv today is on the negative/nitpicky side. Not saying it's never done here but we all love this show flaws and all. It's been fun with you guys. Hope i haven't been writing too much. I have no one else to talk about ER with.

[RedbirdNelly]

11 hours ago, Racj82 said:

The discussion of great Christmas episodes was talked about earlier. I have to throw season 13, City of Mercy, into the ring.

The homeless woman reuniting with her family on Christmas day, Morris not taking advantage of Hope while continuing to grow, Luka saying that he now realizes that he wasn't running away from anything in Croatia but running towards Abby, the wrap up of the street kids. Really good stuff. Someone needs to take a razor to Ray's mustache though.

this was the more recent Christmas episode I was thinking of. Even though season 13 is hardly ER at its best, the Christmas episode was just nice.

and post away--this board was esp fun the first time through Pop showing the episodes. I had to jump off the train when 15 a week got to be too much; now slowly going through season 14 in part because I don't want to rush.

[doodlebug]

1 minute ago, Racj82 said:

Yeah, I usually lurk because so much discussion on tv today is on the negative/nitpicky side. Not saying it's never done here but we all love this show flaws and all. It's been fun with you guys. Hope i haven't been writing too much. I have no one else to talk about ER with.

I think that everyone here really loves this show, warts and all.  We gripe about it, we don't like every plot or character (I cannot abide Abby), but, when push comes to shove, we all really enjoyed this show and feel like it holds up really well over time and was a groundbreaking show in its time.

[BooksRule]

Quote

I also feel Sam and Alex are a crazy mother/son pair. I'm just up to when he saw his Mom kill his father, but even before, taking him from place to place, school to school, moving in with Luka, then the wealthy patient, Gates if I remember correctly later.  Everyone says what a good mom she is but it seems like stability and common sense are not always prevalent. Lying to your son about his dad, changing jobs monthly or yearly just seems so over the top. I would rebel too, he is never in any safe place and sees so much turmoil and craziness and then it's "go to school, do your homework"  Maybe it gets better in later episodes but I doubt it. 

To me, Sam and Alex seemed more like big sister/little brother than mother/son, I guess because she was so young (15?) when she had Alex.  She seemed very immature most of the time.  It looked to me like she wanted to be his friend, which got in the way big time when she needed to be his mother and make/enforce some rules.

[WendyCR72]

6 hours ago, Lozu68 said:

I just found this board...I am SO EXCITED!! Having recently binged all 15 seasons on Hulu...been dying to dissect episodes!! Looking forward to reading and posting!!

Welcome aboard!  :-)

[Kid]

I am currently in the process of watching the entire series and am in mid-season 11.  

In my humble opinion, the series should have ended with Greene’s funeral.  The show became mediocre from that point on.

[MVFrostsMyPie]

Happy belated birthday to NW. He turned 47 yesterday.

[debraran]

6 hours ago, Kid said:

I am currently in the process of watching the entire series and am in mid-season 11.  

In my humble opinion, the series should have ended with Greene’s funeral.  The show became mediocre from that point on.

It is funny how it turned. My daughter who is 25 never saw it back then and was watching it with me on Hulu. She said after missing a few after Greene, "Is this the same show?" The helicopter (twice) got her like many fans. They could have done much with Romano and his new arm, but they had the man mistakenly grabbing butts twice and then after a panic attack on the roof, having his death be the same way. Ridiculous.  Sex also became more "in your face" with doctors and nurses talking about it in front of patients, around them, at the desk, in the lounge, it was like "are the hormones out of control all of a sudden?"  I worked at a Peyton Place type of teaching hospital but at it's worse, was not like that. ; ) I also thought the deaths were too prevalent in the , staff, Green, Romano,Gallant, Gant, Pratt, Ray has to lose his legs. I laughed when the actress who plays Carrie said, "Let me leave with dignity, no car hitting me!" or something like that.  lol

If it did end with Green or a year later, they might have been able to do an ER TV movie as a catch-up but with the quality of TV today, I will gladly watch it on Hulu. I plan on finishing it even if I have to FF a bit and then watching my favorites when I can again.

I still think it's way better than Chicago Med even now, but I miss the more quality scripts. Every few though, is a good one or most is and it keeps you going.

Edited June 6, 2018 by debraran

[Lozu68]

On 1/8/2018 at 5:22 PM, doodlebug said:

MT herself has commented on it in interviews and said she hates the way it looks but couldn't seem to stop doing it.  At the time she did ER, she was still a fairly heavy smoker, I think the lip pursing might've been some sort of pseudo-smoking quirk.  It was really distracting, she does the duck lips more than Kim Kardashian.  I heard somewhere she quit smoking, I hope so, and not just for the lip pursing.

I know this reply is months old...but new to this site (so happy I found it!) interesting comments on MT’s lip pursing...it is still very prevalent now in “The Affair”...but I recently watched all 5 seasons of “Newsradio” in dvd...and she did not do this back then at all. I do wonder if it manifested as she kicked smoking. 

Doesn’t matter to me...I could watch her read the phone book!

[starri]

On 6/5/2018 at 6:21 PM, debraran said:

I still think it's way better than Chicago Med even now, but I miss the more quality scripts. Every few though, is a good one or most is and it keeps you going.

Chicago Med is pretty "meh," but Code Black has gone full-on hate watch.  I wouldn't say I'm glad it's canceled, but I can't for the life of me figure out why CBS bothered with another season.

They had a general surgeon doing a hysterectomy last night.  I wanted to put my foot through the TV at that, so I can only imagine how @doodlebug would have felt.

[debraran]

9 hours ago, starri said:

Chicago Med is pretty "meh," but Code Black has gone full-on hate watch.  I wouldn't say I'm glad it's canceled, but I can't for the life of me figure out why CBS bothered with another season.

They had a general surgeon doing a hysterectomy last night.  I wanted to put my foot through the TV at that, so I can only imagine how @doodlebug would have felt.

Yeah, Chicago Med could have done a lot more with Dr Charles and Dr Choi, both good actor's but they gave them not much to work with. When I think of old shows I watched as a kid, like MASH,  I'm awed how the writers consistently kept up the quality compared with today. Some say it's supply and demand,if most want badly written reality shows, that is what you will get but I think there is a large group that still wants quality.

Edited June 7, 2018 by debraran

[doodlebug]

10 hours ago, starri said:

Chicago Med is pretty "meh," but Code Black has gone full-on hate watch.  I wouldn't say I'm glad it's canceled, but I can't for the life of me figure out why CBS bothered with another season.

They had a general surgeon doing a hysterectomy last night.  I wanted to put my foot through the TV at that, so I can only imagine how @doodlebug would have felt.

This is why I don't watch any medical shows these days.  Someone on this site asked me about The Resident when it first came on.  I liked Matt Czuchry from The Good Wife so I gave it a go.  I didn't make 20 minutes in before I turned it off.  The medicine was awful and the situations and settings were epically bad.  It's like no one on the show has ever visited anyone in a hospital, let alone worked in one.

ER. for all its flaws, really did get the medicine right, for the most part, although they showed ER docs doing stuff that only specialists would attempt.  The hospital also looked generally like a real inner city hospital and most of the rules and situations were essentially grounded somewhere in something real, at least in the first few seasons.

ER came on the air about 7 years after I had finished my residency and one of the main things I loved about it is that it got the basic personality types right.  Doug was a pediatrician and he acted like one.  Benton had a surgical personality if you know what I mean, and I;m sure you do.  Mark was more family practitioner than ER doc, but they needed his kind of personality to be the glue to hold the show together, so I could go with that.  I know a couple family practitioners who eventually became ER docs for various reasons, so there's enough crossover to make it credible.

[Racj82]

Hulu or should I say the company that produces St. Elsewhere is bugging me with how they seem to only allow the first season of the show for distribution. One season on Hulu after a big press release was given out about the acquisition of that show and others and only one season on DVD. I fell in love it while streaming. 

Just ended season 13.

It' ridiculous how many people wanted Heels. Parminder is gorgeous but Neela has the personality of wet rag most of the time. Dubenko, Gates, Ray and surgical intern? Okay, show.

I'm glad Weaver got a dignified exit. It still makes me laugh that they corrected the characters need for a crutch because it was really injuring Laura but then she gets like half a season free of it.

Alex burning down the apartment was just too much for me. I'm glad he was sent away.

The show was beyond it's best days but I would love to have a medical show of this quality in the air right now. If they had never cancelled it I would have been cool. It wasn't the golden years but it was damn good tv even if it got silly at times.

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Benton had a surgical personality if you know what I mean, and I;m sure you do. 

Heh; yes, I think most of us who've ever needed a surgeon can attest the stereotype exists for a reason.

Re. your paragraph as a whole:

2 hours ago, doodlebug said:

ER came on the air about 7 years after I had finished my residency and one of the main things I loved about it is that it got the basic personality types right.  Doug was a pediatrician and he acted like one.  Benton had a surgical personality if you know what I mean, and I;m sure you do.  Mark was more family practitioner than ER doc, but they needed his kind of personality to be the glue to hold the show together, so I could go with that.  I know a couple family practitioners who eventually became ER docs for various reasons, so there's enough crossover to make it credible.

I'm curious what practice area you, as a doctor (and what any other doctors on the thread), think of based on Carter's personality.  Because he seems to me like someone who'd be well suited to a few different ones.  I think he's comforting in the ER, and likes the pace, variety, and challenge, so it's a good fit, but I also think he'd like having an ongoing relationship with patients, so some other specialties, or general practitioner/family medicine, would be too.

And what do you think about Susan's personality as it relates to ER medicine?  I think she made a fine ER doc, but don't feel strongly about it, yet I do feel strongly she - at least as presented in her first go 'round, as that's what I remember most clearly, but I think I saw bits of this the second time, too - was one of the best teachers, so I liked that she was in a teaching hospital.

[doodlebug]

6 hours ago, Bastet said:

Heh; yes, I think most of us who've ever needed a surgeon can attest the stereotype exists for a reason.

Re. your paragraph as a whole:

I'm curious what practice area you, as a doctor (and what any other doctors on the thread), think of based on Carter's personality.  Because he seems to me like someone who'd be well suited to a few different ones.  I think he's comforting in the ER, and likes the pace, variety, and challenge, so it's a good fit, but I also think he'd like having an ongoing relationship with patients, so some other specialties, or general practitioner/family medicine, would be too.

And what do you think about Susan's personality as it relates to ER medicine?  I think she made a fine ER doc, but don't feel strongly about it, yet I do feel strongly she - at least as presented in her first go 'round, as that's what I remember most clearly, but I think I saw bits of this the second time, too - was one of the best teachers, so I liked that she was in a teaching hospital.

I can go with Susan as an ER doc; it suits her.  I don't think she necessarily needed the ongoing contact with patients that I see in Mark or Carter.  She was calm in a crisis and even tempered, so ER worked for her.  Her personality was very laid back and go with the flow; so I think she was probably the one character who could've fit into a variety of specialties.

Kerry wasn't really suited to ER due to her physical limits.  Being on her feet and moving for a 12 hour shift wasn't really going to work.  Her rather rigid personality also didn't lend itself to ER work.  A less physically taxing specialty like Radiology, Dermatology, etc where she would also have the opportunity to be an administrator would've made more sense for her.  Most ER docs are pretty physically fit, both men and women.  They tend to like challenges, including physical ones.  The blond ER doc hired as a temp worker who did all sorts of adventurous travel and sporting activities who turned up in the latter seasons seemed more like the ER docs I know.

Carter, like Mark, seems like the kind of person who would do well withthe ongoing, longterm relationships that come with internal medicine or family practice or even OB/GYN which combines the best of both worlds; both the ongoing care as well as the chance to do some procedures/surgeries.  The show demonstrated prettu well why he wasn't cut out for surgery; he had the OR technical skills, but really craved connection with his patient which really doesn't happen in General Surgery (or the ER, either, despite the show trying to pretend it does).  Because of his childhood, I think Carter would've also been a really great pediatric oncologist or palliative care specialist, too.  I'm an OB/GYN, practicing almost 32 years and I've got patients who've been with me from the start and I've even delivered my babies' babies.  It's the best!

[starri]

Kerry and Susan both struck me as having ER personalities, regardless of the former's physical limitations.  We all remember the uptight bureaucrat, but she also had a pretty wicked sense of humor and a good bedside manner.  Doug, of all people, even tells her once she'd have been a good pediatrician.

I think Malucci was probably the most EM-y in his approach to things, although cranked up to 11.  Perhaps they could have had him go the Morris route and mature, but I guess they'd made him too unlikeable to get a redemption arc.

Jing-Mei should have done a competitive internal medicine subspecialty, like interventional cardiology or pulmonary/critical care.

The show was absolutely correct when they aimed Lucy toward psychiatry, even though she didn't quite get there.  This may be why I discovered that I liked her more revisiting her seasons.

Benton and Elizabeth were both total surgeons.  Romano could never have been anything else.

@doodlebug will probably disagree, but I thought the Abby we saw at first should have been an OB.  Most of the nurses that I've known who have gone to med school end up in the speciality of nursing they were in.  And the Abby we first met was a REALLY good OB nurse.

Mark: EM, probably would have transitioned into a family practice to spend more time with Ella and Rachel if he hadn't gotten sick.  And perfectly happy doing so.

Carter is 100% FM, probably eventually focusing his practice on geriatrics.  One of my favorite memories of him involved an assist he gave in a difficult birth (again, unrealistically in the ER), and as he's taking the baby over the warmer, he immediately starts talking to it.

[Driad]

46 minutes ago, starri said:

Benton and Elizabeth were both total surgeons.  Romano could never have been anything else.

I suggested in the past that after Romano lost his arm, he might have had an interesting arc while he figured out what to do instead of surgery.  You don't think he could have "settled" for another specialty, at least something better for him than helicopter #2?  Maybe he could have become a lawyer.

[starri]

At that point in his career, it would have been difficult if not impossible to pick up another specialty.  He would be limited to things that didn't require a lot of physical labor, which are things like dermatology, radiology, psychiatry, pathology, and I guess less procedure-intensive internal medicine or family practice.  Even dermatology might be pushing it, since some of it involves minor procedures, especially on the cosmetic end.  You can technically have a medicine or psychiatric practice without doing a residency, with the caveat that you can't be board certified and can't really advertise yourself as an internist or psychiatrist.  But he's been a surgeon for probably fifteen or twenty years when we meet him, and the medical knowledge that's not related to your field tends to leak out of your ears when you're that far into your career.  

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, starri said:

Kerry and Susan both struck me as having ER personalities, regardless of the former's physical limitations.  We all remember the uptight bureaucrat, but she also had a pretty wicked sense of humor and a good bedside manner.  Doug, of all people, even tells her once she'd have been a good pediatrician.

I think Malucci was probably the most EM-y in his approach to things, although cranked up to 11.  Perhaps they could have had him go the Morris route and mature, but I guess they'd made him too unlikeable to get a redemption arc.

Jing-Mei should have done a competitive internal medicine subspecialty, like interventional cardiology or pulmonary/critical care.

The show was absolutely correct when they aimed Lucy toward psychiatry, even though she didn't quite get there.  This may be why I discovered that I liked her more revisiting her seasons.

Benton and Elizabeth were both total surgeons.  Romano could never have been anything else.

@doodlebug will probably disagree, but I thought the Abby we saw at first should have been an OB.  Most of the nurses that I've known who have gone to med school end up in the speciality of nursing they were in.  And the Abby we first met was a REALLY good OB nurse.

Mark: EM, probably would have transitioned into a family practice to spend more time with Ella and Rachel if he hadn't gotten sick.  And perfectly happy doing so.

Carter 

Malucci was definitely the stereotypical ER doc; adrenaline junkie, cowboy type.  His personality was classic ER doc.  The writers really took it into overdrive with him, but his kind are found in ERs everywhere.

Lucy was definitely suited to psych; she seemed to lack the self confidence and drive needed for the more classic clinical specialties but seemed to like patient interaction too much to do pathology or radiology.

I agree with you that Kerry related well to patients but would disagree that ER docs have especially great bedside manners.  Most are ‘treat ‘em and street ‘em types who don’t want to spend a lot of time interacting with the masses.

The only way Mark could’ve gone to Family Practice would be to go back and do another residency which I can’t see. I’d also strongly disagree that being a Family Practitioner would result in a better family life.  ER doc’s work 3 12 hour shifts a week usually; the shift ends and they go home. Work weeks of 60-80 hours are typical in primary care.  I do think he could’ve ended up at an Urgent Care and left the major trauma BS behind.

When Abby first appeared, I agree, she might’ve been heading to OB/GYN although she never seemed drawn to surgery which a lot of us are. She ran around a lot in the later years acting like she knew more than the surgeons and telling them how to do their jobs, but that’s not the same thing.  Remember her managing her own labor and cesarean? Or telling Dubenko and Dusty which procedures to perform on Neela?  That’s not OB-like; that’s crappy writing.  There is a scene in All in the Family in the trauma room with Carter where he is awake and freaking out. She immediately starts stroking his head to soothe him. I remember seeing that the first time around and thinking ‘there’s the OB nurse in her’.  Calming people down when they’re in pain and losing it is the definition of obstetric nursing.

Edited June 8, 2018 by doodlebug

[starri]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

Lucy was definitely suited to psych; she seemed to lack the self confidence and drive needed for the more classic clinical specialties but seemed to like patient interaction too much to do pathology or radiology.

This is perhaps self-serving, but I've always felt psych was due more to a personality type, not so much a lack of drive, etc.  And while I know it was different twenty years ago, things have changed a lot in the psych world.  This year's Match was brutal.

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

There is a scene in All in the Family in the trauma room with Carter where he is awake and freaking out. She immediately starts stroking his head to soothe him. I remember seeing that the first time around and thinking ‘there’s the OB nurse in her’.  Calming people down when they’re in pain and losing it is the definition of obstetric nursing.

There was also the micro-premie that the neonatologist and his residents were admiring, and Abby went in and fussed at him for doing it in full sight of the father, who she knew would interpret it as some kind of intervention to save the baby.

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, starri said:

This is perhaps self-serving, but I've always felt psych was due more to a personality type, not so much a lack of drive, etc.  And while I know it was different twenty years ago, things have changed a lot in the psych world.  This year's Match was brutal.

There was also the micro-premie that the neonatologist and his residents were admiring, and Abby went in and fussed at him for doing it in full sight of the father, who she knew would interpret it as some kind of intervention to save the baby.

I finished med school 36 years ago, so 20 years ago was still in my future.  I do agree there are personality types for psych just as there are for all the specialties.  We used to joke that a lot of those who chose psych were looking for people with more psychologic pathology than they had.   Back when I was a kid, it was also very attractive to women who were looking for ways to balance family and career.  Nowadays, women are everywhere in medicine and there are a lot more options and flexibility in all fields.  Not enough, but a lot more.  The women in my med school class tended to gravitate towards psych, peds, radiology, and other specialities that were considered to be more family friendly.

Abby advocating for her patient in Sand and Water was fine, but I would dispute that most neonatologists would be as insensitive as that doc.  I work with a lot of them in very high risk settings and the vast majority are thoughtful and caring and would never use a real baby to demonstrate things to students in front of the parents.; or, without at least including the parents in the discussion.  Sand and Water was also the episode where Abby, former OB nurse, dumps on all her previous colleagues by insisting that they wouldn't be empathetic and kind to parents with a dying newborn and that keeping them and their baby in a procedure room in the middle of a busy big city ER for hours on end was a good option.  OB nurses receive specialized training in grieving and they are extremely sensitive to the needs of their families.  Abby's assertion that they would've been put into a room with a mom with a healthy newborn and been subjected to others' joy in the midst of their sorrow was a shitty, shitty thing to say and was absolutely wrong, to boot.  NICU's these days have private areas for families of children who are dying.  Mine has a room, like a family room with sofa, chairs, etc and a crib for the baby, away from everyone and everything else on the unit. Nobody shares a room, not even with another NICU baby's mom.  That was probably the start of my dislike of Abby.  One thing ER did poorly was to continually insult and denigrate the skills and practice of every other medical practitioner outside of the ER and repeatedly assert that ER staff knew better than everyone.  In real life, ER is part of the team and they are respected for what they do well and they gladly defer to those who are experts in their own field.  They are actually very, very anxious to get people out of the ER and into the specialized areas of the hospital that cater to their specific needs, which is why they don't actually have fetal monitors down there, nor do ER docs check cervixes or deliver babies 'just because' like we see on the show.

[Amethyst]

9 hours ago, starri said:

Even dermatology might be pushing it, since some of it involves minor procedures, especially on the cosmetic end.  

Not a doctor, but I worked in Dermatology for a year as a CMA, and I was surprised at all the hands-on stuff they did.  Major surgeries, excisions, cosmetics, wart removals, Botox.  No way could Romano have been doing all that one handed.  Or at least not until he had a lot of practice doing it that way.  

[Driad]

9 hours ago, starri said:

He would be limited to things that didn't require a lot of physical labor, which are things like dermatology, radiology, psychiatry, pathology, and I guess less procedure-intensive internal medicine or family practice.

Romano might have managed to become a radiologist or pathologist if he really wanted to stay in medicine.  As a surgeon he interacted with them, and those specialties involve less patient contact than some others.  (Warm fuzzy bedside manner was not his strength, although he could be nice when he wanted to, e.g. with Reese.)

[debraran]

1 hour ago, Driad said:

Romano might have managed to become a radiologist or pathologist if he really wanted to stay in medicine.  As a surgeon he interacted with them, and those specialties involve less patient contact than some others.  (Warm fuzzy bedside manner was not his strength, although he could be nice when he wanted to, e.g. with Reese.)

He was nice more than people remember, I remember him letting a patent get care that wasn't supposed too, things he said to Corday and others about cancer, illness, life in general. He loved Elizabeth, Lucy was a friend, they could have done a lot with his character they didn't want too.

2 hours ago, Amethyst said:

Not a doctor, but I worked in Dermatology for a year as a CMA, and I was surprised at all the hands-on stuff they did.  Major surgeries, excisions, cosmetics, wart removals, Botox.  No way could Romano have beenall that one handed.  Or at least not until he had a lot of practice doing it that way.  

One of the first things I did at a hospital job years ago, was to help a derm doc was a hair transplant, I still remember the plugs and thinking, "was this really worth it". A lot of surgeries on moles, etc but some did more than others. This doc did a lot of studies on drugs, hair/skin products, that didn't require as much physical skill.

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, Driad said:

Romano might have managed to become a radiologist or pathologist if he really wanted to stay in medicine.  As a surgeon he interacted with them, and those specialties involve less patient contact than some others.  (Warm fuzzy bedside manner was not his strength, although he could be nice when he wanted to, e.g. with Reese.)

But, once again, he'd have had to apply for and complete a residency if he wanted to switch specialties and it would require years of training as well as taking call like residents do..  I've known a couple surgeons forced to stop operating due to health problems. One caught chronic Hepatitis B from a patient back in the days before the vaccine and he worked in the office doing minor surgeries and did some administrative stuff.  The other had a chronic health problem that made it impossible to work long days on his feet in the OR.  He became director of Trauma at his hospital and spent his time coordinating resident teaching, training staff and developing protocols.  Romano would have had a tough time doing even minor procedures and I couldn't see him adapting to a completely administrative role.

[Driad]

Thank you, doodlebug.  What they did to Romano seemed excessive even by the standards of this show.  They had a good actor and a good character, so I was annoyed that they wasted them.

[debraran]

6 hours ago, Driad said:

Thank you, doodlebug.  What they did to Romano seemed excessive even by the standards of this show.  They had a good actor and a good character, so I was annoyed that they wasted them.

Even taking out the really inappropriate lines, he had so many funny ones. Someone had a long list of all his one liners and zingers and I forgot how it broke up the tension on the show. I loved even after making a pregnancy weight comment he sent Lizzie the ice cream and pizza after a long operation. They only had her really "get him".  I loved how she burned the tacky sympathy card the hospital sent at his unrealistic memorial. (that no one would really come)

As the actor said in an interview, he seemed to agree with that idea of showing more of his character :

TVGO: Do you wish you had a chance to show a softer side to the character?
McCrane: I've had a ball playing him. And one of the things that has been fun is that every season they give him a little something here and there to reveal some other aspect of his ostensible humanity. Selfishly, as an actor, I would have loved to have played a lot of different facets of his personality. But characters serve functions in shows, and I understand that.

I'm glad the actor got to direct as did others, some of the best shows they had. Nice quite a few got to try their hand at directing there.

Edited June 9, 2018 by debraran

[txhorns79]

Quote

In my humble opinion, the series should have ended with Greene’s funeral.  The show became mediocre from that point on.

I think the show's quality decline started before that event.  There were so many times when I just wanted to scream at one character or another as to why they felt it was fine to insert themselves into a patient's personal life.  To give an example from an episode I just saw on Pop, Carter's cousin's ex wife (played by Rebecca DeMornay) has breast cancer, which Carter only finds out after being nosy with Elizabeth when he sees this woman at the hospital.  She tells Carter to leave her alone, and he refuses.  He just kind of insists he knows better as to what she wants (after dating her for a hot minute).  Frankly, on another show, Carter would just be a stalker.   However, ER plays it as though Carter is wise, and she was wrong to try to ask for her privacy.   

[debraran]

I've never been a Neela hater but never a favorite either, but I don't get this physical attraction the show has going to her.  It's almost like a hidden joke with the writers, let's have every man (and one woman) fall over themselves over Neela all of a sudden. Ray and Gates were like middle school kids, then Dr Dubanko (whom I like, reminds me of a doc I used to work with) falls all over himself with her, waiting in the wings. The female med student kisses her at the wedding, just couldn't resist she apologizes. I want to know what perfume she is wearing. ; )

There is no one else to date or meet? I never went this far before in the show so it's a little disconcerting. I also hear the Abby cheats on Luka for a night which is depressing watching her wedding. Alcohol or not, the desire still has to be there. ; (

[doodlebug]

3 hours ago, debraran said:

I've never been a Neela hater but never a favorite either, but I don't get this physical attraction the show has going to her.  It's almost like a hidden joke with the writers, let's have every man (and one woman) fall over themselves over Neela all of a sudden. Ray and Gates were like middle school kids, then Dr Dubanko (whom I like, reminds me of a doc I used to work with) falls all over himself with her, waiting in the wings. The female med student kisses her at the wedding, just couldn't resist she apologizes. I want to know what perfume she is wearing. ; )

There is no one else to date or meet? I never went this far before in the show so it's a little disconcerting. I also hear the Abby cheats on Luka for a night which is depressing watching her wedding. Alcohol or not, the desire still has to be there. ; (

They only turned to Neela after running through every guy in the ER and Abby.  She had patients, med students, strangers off the streets all commenting on what a hottie she was; they even had a couple of teenage boys drool over her and call her a MILF.  Ewwww!  Remember, Dubenko only became interested in Neela after Abby turned him down.  I don't know why TPTB insisted on doing this with the female cast; it made no sense.  I remember back in the day where some poor sap was raving on and on about how terrifically gorgeous and beautiful  Abby was; the epitome of womanhood.  Meanwhile, Susan, Kerry, Chuny and several others, all beautiful women themselves are standing there nodding in agreement..  Abby was not that pretty, not that special; especially working in the ER with multiple gorgeous women.

[Racj82]

It's not even really a gender thing. Creators of shows can't help themselves sometimes. People were constantly drooling over Luka and Doug too. Whether it's justified or not, it's tiring.

The Neela propping got out of hand but I love that Parminder got a chance to be a leading woman with a strong sexuality. Women of her nationality don't always get that.

It's insane to me that by season 4 of episode 15, Pratt Luka and Abby are gone. The longest running cast member for most of the last season is Neela who came in five years prior. Compare to Grey's who has nearly half it's starting cast still in tact including their lead character.

ER gets a lot of crap for killing off characters but more than one death was honoring their actors wishes. Edwards and Phifer clearly wanted to have grand deaths. Maura actually wanted to be killed off too but there was no way they could that off on top Pratt's death. She said it in a interview after she left. Ramano almost had to be killed off. He became insufferable by the end. They could have dropped two helicopters on him for all I care. Props to Paul's acting but I couldn't stand him by season 10.

That shot of Pratt with tears streaming down his face while he basically knows he's going to die will never leave my memory. That's pure horror.

Speaking of which, watching Abby fall back into alcoholism will always be as well. Especially her drunk at the bar with everyone there. It's like actually being forced to watch a car crash.