All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, RedbirdNelly said:

I watched Season 11 episodes 1 and 2 last night. General notes:

a) at first I thought it was just in my head, but for episode 1, you do hear Noah Wylie say "previously on ER"--I think because the car crash into the river part started straight after where Season 10 ends so maybe cutting that out didn't work; it just made me happy to hear it.

b) I hate the Neela doesn't want to be a doctor storyline. I wish they would have had her match at county. Having all characters they want to keep match there is more realistic to me than someone finishing medical school and wanting to not at least complete their intern year. Neela doesn't come across as an emotional person--and the logical approach even if you don't think you want to practice is to suck it up for 1 year so you can be licensed and have options. It always helps to have options. After the intern year is the time to think about other career paths. Neela doesn't seem like the type to act so stupidly. I can see having doubts--just not how she handled them. I haven't gotten to the part yet where she starts working at a convenience store which is even worse.

The 'Neela doesn't want to be a doctor, doesn't want to stay at County' storyline is just an excuse to show us that Abby is just the bestest friend ever when she not only realizes that one of the new interns is going to be unable to continue, but pushes TPTB to give Neela his position without any thought to what it is they or Neela might think was best.  Because, as usual, no storyline has any significance unless it props up Abby as a character and tells us once again how fabulous she is.

[Bastet]

7 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

The third episode on Friday, The Book of Abby, is Dr Lockhart's last appearance as a regular on the show. 

Aw, that's too bad; I didn't realize she wasn't there through the end.  I guess having some former characters return (including appearances by dead people, apparently) will help things continue to feel somewhat familiar.

[slasherboy]

I don't know his name, but the guy who picked up the gun getting out of the helicopter is the same guy who married JJ on "Criminal Minds".  Most of you know everybody's name, but I don't.  Sorry.  On "CM" he was from New Orleans.

[walnutqueen]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

Tomorrow is a red letter day!  Our long national nightmare is almost over!  The third episode on Friday, The Book of Abby, is Dr Lockhart's last appearance as a regular on the show.

This is your national nightmare, not mine.   I, for one, will miss her.

I am ever so glad I finally got to see the whole Abby relapse arc for myself.  It was nothing like what was described, and has not made me hate her with the power of a thousand burning nuns.  ;-)

[Bastet]

The "Chicago is the most dangerous place in the world!" propagandists would love this show, because the County General staff sure wind up being held at gunpoint a lot.

47 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

I am ever so glad I finally got to see the whole Abby relapse arc for myself.  It was nothing like what was described, and has not made me hate her with the power of a thousand burning nuns.  ;-)

I thought it was well done (what I saw of it; I missed big chunks).  For all the drama, there were quite a few quiet little beats with Abby, and Abby with other characters.  I really felt for everyone.  I liked the touch that it was Haleh and Chuny, who were nurses with her back in the day, who hugged her when she told everyone she'd been at rehab.  And I've always liked her friendship with Neela.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Bastet

[Bastet]

Knowing Pratt is about to die, it is comical how many good things are happening in the final days of his life.  They are really piling it on thick.

Hal Holbrook just cracked me up:

"They're kicking you out because you didn't die soon enough?"
"It's kind of discouraging, isn't it?"
"Why didn't you tell me?"
"I didn't want to upset you; you're depressive enough already.  I didn't want you to bawl."

Edited January 4, 2018 by Bastet

[Diance Court]

Honestly, I don't hate Abby Lockhart.  And the show got marginally better once Carter left.  Maura Tierney was given the things she did because she was one of the few people on the show who could really act.  Yes, the writers disappointed her and us by giving her some weak stuff, but there was no one else in seasons 10+-ish - 14 (I'm deliberately not counting the terrible bipolar years of Mom and Bro), who could match her. She and Stanley Tucci were hard to watch, but better than 75% of the rest of the show.

One thing I appreciate about the later years of this show, because I feel like we've become a pit of "it's so bad" is that the group in the ER were friends.  There were many ways this was displayed and the actors (especially Scott Grimes) seemed to show this.

[katha]

Abby was okay as a character. IMO the problem came in because they wanted to make her center stage. But she was such a low-energy, constantly miserable and downbeat character that IMO it sucked the life right out of the show. Such people exist and had she been one among many main characters...okay. But there were phases where her presence was so dominant that it swallowed everything else. The writers in the later seasons weren't strong enough anymore to create a good balance in the cast.

I also thought characters like Neela and Pratt were perfectly interesting in their own right and the actors portraying them were certainly competent enough to give them more interesting things to do. Morris got better as well. You also see it in the last season IMO. For me the show really picks up again there, it becomes vibrant and lively in a way it wasn't for many years before that. And yeah, part of it is that it's not all about Abby anymore and other characters are allowed to take center stage. And it's not that Abby needed to be gone or anything, it's that the show should have done a better job of serving all the characters, not just a few.

[RedbirdNelly]

watched season 11, episode 3 (Try Carter) last night. I'd forgotten about Dr. Debanko. I liked his first appearance. Neela is working at the convenience store, which is stupid, but I did get a chuckle out of Ray in that episode. Ray is shopping with Abby and while Abby reacts to Neela on a friend level, Ray doesn't know her and so is just focused on the cupcake special.

I'm less annoyed by Abby than Doodlebug but I will say this episode is especially over the top on the Abby scale. We do have some unknown intern who keeps trying to get a date with her in the worst way, plus her trying to over-ride Ray's decisions, plus her noticing OCD from another when no one else does, plus people referring to the other interns as her students, etc. Dial it back some, please.

One minor thing I noticed for the first time. Carter has been wearing a jean jacket for the last few episodes (including end of season 10). In previous seasons, he consistently wore suits to work, which always seemed a bit odd to me. So seems like a conscious choice by writers to say post-Africa/Gama dying, he's switched his approach some.

[absnow54]

One thing I appreciate about the later years of this show, because I feel like we've become a pit of "it's so bad" is that the group in the ER were friends. There were many ways this was displayed and the actors (especially Scott Grimes) seemed to show this.

I agree. The cast really didn't click during the middle years, and all of their stories felt really isolated. By the later seasons, Abby, Pratt, Morris, and Neela seem like actual friends, and Abby and Luka's wedding was a lot of fun because there was this huge dysfunctional group that all liked each other. It was chemistry they hadn't generated since the original lineup.

[Earl Is Dead]

16 hours ago, Bastet said:

Knowing Pratt is about to die, it is comical how many good things are happening in the final days of his life.  They are really piling it on thick.

Word.  I'm glad I knew from this forum that he dies because I'd have been ticked.  They really did a pretty good job growing his character over the years, going from young and arrogant to a good doctor, friend, and boyfriend.  Stupid MP, wanting to be killed off instead of riding off into the sunset.

One thing that did tick me off big time was seeing Neela hook up with that misogynistic Australian asshat.   If they were going for the "nice girls always want the bad boy" trope, they missed that mark by not giving him one redeeming personality trait whatsoever.  He's loathsome and disgusting and I wish she'd have kneed him in the groin instead. 

Edited January 5, 2018 by Earl Is Dead

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, Earl Is Dead said:

One thing that did tick me off big time was seeing Neela hook up with that misogynistic Australian asshat.   If they were going for the "nice girls always want the bad boy" trope, they missed that mark by not giving him one redeeming personality trait whatsoever.  He's loathsome and disgusting and I wish she'd have kneed him in the groin instead. 

They do that all.the.time. on this show, and it's disgusting every time. 

[ooh.boo]

Chris Pratt was on for a second as a security guy (in Season 11). Inspiration for Burt Macklin? 

[doodlebug]

23 minutes ago, Bastet said:

They do that all.the.time. on this show, and it's disgusting every time. 

It really is.  I am also tired of the people having sex all over the hospital thing as we saw with Gates and Sam turning up on the security cameras.  Having worked in hospitals for the past 35 years, let me assure you, most doctors have not had sex there, nor do they consider it a goal.  Most of those who have done the deed in the hospital (the least sexy place I know), managed to find a private place with a lock on the door (and not the men's room, either, ala Mark and Jen).  The whole idea that women want guys who are jerks or that there is something sexy about a guy who treats women like disposable objects is pure fantasy on behalf of the misogynistic creeps writing this show.

[Earl Is Dead]

31 minutes ago, Bastet said:

They do that all.the.time. on this show, and it's disgusting every time. 

True.  It's true of a lot of shows, and I can't excuse the trope in any form, but it seems like other "bad boys" they've had the female characters fall for over the years, (Ross, Malucci, Ray, Gates?) they at least also wrote them with some finesse and attempted to give them some kind of redeemable depth.  I don't see that here at all.  This guy is just a pig, and prior to ripping his clothes off Neela was the only one calling him on it.  It really disgusted me more than usual here. 

[Granny58]

WTF is with this chaplain being everywhere and in everybody's business?  It's completely unrealistic and her touchy-feely ways just annoy.  Ugh.  

[Bastet]

3 minutes ago, Earl Is Dead said:

True.  It's true of a lot of shows, and I can't excuse the trope in any form, but it seems like other "bad boys" they've had the female characters fall for over the years, (Ross, Malucci, Ray, Gates?) they at least also wrote them with some finesse and attempted to give them some kind of redeemable depth.  I don't see that here at all.  This guy is just a pig, and prior to ripping his clothes off Neela was the only one calling him on it.

To me, it's an exact replica of when Corday inexplicably boned that guy she'd been rightly calling a disgusting pig for weeks.  They love to do it in general on this show (as do so many others) - have a woman tell a man she's not interested, have him refuse to take no for an answer, and present it as charming.  They also specifically like to set up scenarios where the reason the woman is saying no is because the man is a sexist piece of shit, and no woman with an ounce of self-respect would touch his dick other than to punch him in the nuts, and then cut to heavy breathing and tearing off clothes.  It's revolting.

[voiceover]

Eh.  Better a one-night, "Dear Penthouse Forum...", itch-scratching Zipless Fuck (tm Erica Jong), then a long-term relationship.

[Bastet]

I didn't know Pratt was going to be in this episode, seeming to be okay, and then dying - I figured the season 14 finale was his last episode, and he went boom.  This probably would have been a shocking episode had I not known.  Not in the league of Gant being revealed as the mangled train victim, or Lucy and Carter getting stabbed, but quite the surprise.

[voiceover]

Obviously Eric made it out just in time.  So, IIRC, that's every AfAm doctor, who's not Benton, dies?

That's like the old horror movie trope!  Bleahhhhh.  Hate it.  Did someone here mention that that's how Mekhi *wanted* to exit the show?

Edited January 5, 2018 by voiceover
Because I just remembered Epps = Gant

[Bastet]

I've seen it all now: Frank, of all people, just made me cry.

[doodlebug]

34 minutes ago, voiceover said:

Obviously Eric made it out just in time.  So, IIRC, that's every AfAm doctor, who's not Benton, dies?

That's like the old horror movie trope!  Bleahhhhh.  Hate it.  Did someone here mention that that's how Omar *wanted* to exit the show?

Omar Epps played Gant and he was hired for specific arc; I think the plan all along was for Gant to die.  When the pager sounded in trauma, it was one of the most truly shocking TV moments ever.

32 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I've seen it all now: Frank, of all people, just made me cry.

Followed by Morris and the ring.  I forgot how moving this episode was.

[Bastet]

Did Chris Carter write this episode?  The horrible opening voiceover is straight out of his worst X-Files scripts.

[voiceover]

58 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Omar Epps played Gant and he was hired for specific arc; I think the plan all along was for Gant to die.  When the pager sounded in trauma, it was one of the most truly shocking TV moments ever.

Just corrected my previous post; had Omar/Sharif/Mekhi in my head as I was writing, and wrote the wrong actor.

[RedbirdNelly]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

Omar Epps played Gant and he was hired for specific arc; I think the plan all along was for Gant to die.  When the pager sounded in trauma, it was one of the most truly shocking TV moments ever.

 

The death of Gant truly was one of the most shocking moments. If you saw it the first time it happened, you definitely remember. My husband has not been watching the reruns but he still references it. And the way they implied it was suicide but you never 100% knew was well done.

[RedbirdNelly]

11 hours ago, katha said:

Abby was okay as a character. IMO the problem came in because they wanted to make her center stage. But she was such a low-energy, constantly miserable and downbeat character that IMO it sucked the life right out of the show. Such people exist and had she been one among many main characters...okay. But there were phases where her presence was so dominant that it swallowed everything else. The writers in the later seasons weren't strong enough anymore to create a good balance in the cast.

I also thought characters like Neela and Pratt were perfectly interesting in their own right and the actors portraying them were certainly competent enough to give them more interesting things to do. Morris got better as well. You also see it in the last season IMO. For me the show really picks up again there, it becomes vibrant and lively in a way it wasn't for many years before that. And yeah, part of it is that it's not all about Abby anymore and other characters are allowed to take center stage. And it's not that Abby needed to be gone or anything, it's that the show should have done a better job of serving all the characters, not just a few.

Agree so strongly with this.

[Zoe]

Put me down as another who didn't expect to see Pratt in this episode. Then again, the only last season episode I actually have a memory of is the transplant episode.

 

Weird, the CC's attributed the neuro guy's lines to Dubenko.

[Granny58]

3 hours ago, Bastet said:

I've seen it all now: Frank, of all people, just made me cry.

I like Frank.  He's a crusty curmudgeon with a heart of gold (and sarcasm...I love sarcasm).

3 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Followed by Morris and the ring.  I forgot how moving this episode was.

which episode is this?  I don't want to miss it.

[justduckey]

The Pratt dying episode really got to me. Had I not read on here that he died I would have been even more shocked. It was truly sad. Wheeling the gurney to the elevator had me in tears. He grew on me over the years and I was sad to see him go. 

[casey65]

I totally didn’t expect to see Pratt alive in the episode today. This was a really well done, touching episode.  I was surprised to find myself crying; I didn’t think I cared that much about the character but MP was great in his scenes, and of course the gurney down the hall and Frank touching his shoulder were heartbreaking.

The episode with Gant’s pager going off was one of the best/ most shocking moments on TV. I still wait for it to happen every time that ep comes up; Benton and Carter’s reactions were so well done.  I remember being SO angry when Greys Anatomy ripped it off with the “George is the bus crash victim” episode.

[pieinmyeye]

On 1/4/2018 at 3:17 PM, slasherboy said:

I don't know his name, but the guy who picked up the gun getting out of the helicopter is the same guy who married JJ on "Criminal Minds".  Most of you know everybody's name, but I don't.  Sorry.  On "CM" he was from New Orleans.

Thank you!! I knew I had seen him before, but even after searching IMDB, I still couldn’t place him. 

[Bastet]

4 minutes ago, casey65 said:

I totally didn’t expect to see Pratt alive in the episode today. This was a really well done, touching episode.  I was surprised to find myself crying; I didn’t think I cared that much about the character but MP was great in his scenes, and of course the gurney down the hall and Frank touching his shoulder were heartbreaking.

It took me a very long time to like Pratt, but eventually I did; I think I started coming around on him right around the time he helped Chen with her father, but it's all been such a whirlwind.  All I know is for the last season or so, I have found him quite likable, and a steadying presence, when for his first several seasons he really bugged me.  The scene with him sitting there crying as they worked on him was great.  I loved everyone toasting with mozzarella sticks.

I still can't believe it was that asshole Frank who brought me to tears, but when he walked past the gurney I knew he was going to go call the elevator, and just that had me a little choked up, so when he reached out to touch Pratt, that got the old tear ducts going.

[pieinmyeye]

I’m so glad I was prepared for Pratt’s death. I was not, however prepared for Abby to leave. I always liked her. Even when they made to try to make her look so weak that Joe’s accident and not being to reach Luka made her fall off the wagon. I never bought that. I loved the scene between her and Hullaih(?) and she and Frank dancing.

[WendyCR72]

3 minutes ago, pieinmyeye said:

I loved the scene between her and Hullaih(?)

It's spelled Haleh.  :-)

[slasherboy]

1 hour ago, pieinmyeye said:

Thank you!! I knew I had seen him before, but even after searching IMDB, I still couldn’t place him. 

Glad I could help.  I still don't know his name though.  HAHA

[casey65]

52 minutes ago, Bastet said:

It took me a very long time to like Pratt, but eventually I did; I think I started coming around on him right around the time he helped Chen with her father, but it's all been such a whirlwind.  All I know is for the last season or so, I have found him quite likable, and a steadying presence, when for his first several seasons he really bugged me.  The scene with him sitting there crying as they worked on him was great.  I loved everyone toasting with mozzarella sticks.

Same here.  I think the writing for him the first seasons was poor; the whole Leon storyline was annoying, he was too abrasive, and I hated him breaking that poor kids neck.  And there was something about the way he spoke that bothered me, it was like he was choking out some of the jargon. The later seasons, especially after he came back from Africa, he was written much better. I feel like his friendship with Morris really made the character much more likeable too. While they were no Mark and Doug, it was a nice friendship.  

I couldn’t catch what they were saying- how did he get the air embolis? 

[voiceover]

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

  The scene with [Pratt]sitting there crying as they worked on him was great.  

That hit me hard.  It was his realization setting in.  Gutting to watch.

And Abby, desperate to get back in there to help!  Exactly right for her.

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, casey65 said:

 

I couldn’t catch what they were saying- how did he get the air embolis? 

There was a tear in his carotid artery and air got into it and traveled to his brain, I think.  If you recall, he had a broken jaw and then developed ‘shock lung’ due to the force of the explosion damaging his lungs.  That’s when Morris performed the crike because they couldn’t see well enough to intubate him the usual way due to his jaw/mouth injuries. 

Shortly after that, they noticed that his neck was swelling rapidly due to a tear in his carotid artery and Neela opened up his neck to tie it off. Presumably, air got into the tear in the blood vessel and deprived his brain of blood flow leading to brain death.

I’m  a GYN, so my expertise is generally below the waist, but I think this is the gist of it.

[CarolMK]

I was very sad to see Pratt go, and glad I was warned ahead of time . That whole episode of the other doctors trying to save him was very emotional. 

The Australian actor (David Lyons?) is difficult to understand with his accent. I don't like to have to work so hard when watching tv. That scene of him and Neela creeped me out in the previous episode, for a second there, I thought he was going to rape her.  And bringing back Jeannie so late in the series was puzzling to me, since there were no doctors left that knew her. It was nice a couple of nurses did. I wonder what made her decide to star in a guest episode and under what circumstances she left ER . 

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, CarolMK said:

And bringing back Jeannie so late in the series was puzzling to me, since there were no doctors left that knew her. It was nice a couple of nurses did. I wonder what made her decide to star in a guest episode and under what circumstances she left ER . 

Gloria Rubens left the show on good terms.  She wasn’t thrilled with the lack of storyline for Jeannie, but her main reason was because she wanted to pursue singing and she had an opportunity to tour with Tina Turner.  Unlike others who left, she specifically asked for a happy ending for Jeannie after all her angst.  Of course, a lot of that was gone when Jeannie came back, but, at that point, I think TPTB wanted to remind the audience of the good old days that Jeannie was such a big part of.

[doodlebug]

13 hours ago, voiceover said:

Obviously Eric made it out just in time.  So, IIRC, that's every AfAm doctor, who's not Benton, dies?

That's like the old horror movie trope!  Bleahhhhh.  Hate it.  Did someone here mention that that's how Mekhi *wanted* to exit the show?

Yeah, Mekhi supposedly requested a big death eppy for his exit.

[absnow54]

The male doctors maybe, but Dr Finch, Dr Banfield, and Jeannie Boulet (although she was a PA) all survived. And then there was Dr Hicks who just kind of disappeared in the third or fourth season. 

[justduckey]

10 hours ago, voiceover said:

That hit me hard.  It was his realization setting in.  Gutting to watch.

And Abby, desperate to get back in there to help!  Exactly right for her.

Yes, that was heartbreaking. It’s one thing when your just the patient and have little understanding but he knew all too well that the outcome was bad. Those tears. Great acting. 

Edited January 6, 2018 by justduckey

[desertflower]

Pratt's realization of what was happening to him reminded me of Lucy mouthing "PE?" to Corday and realizing what bad shape she was in. Not sure if it would be helpful or terrifying to have extensive medical knowledge of your condition as you're dying. :(

[walnutqueen]

I wouldn't mind if that new HBIC bit the big one.  Don't care about her implied sad backstory; don't care about her.  Loved Morris snapping back at her.

I'm sad to see Abby go.  I tend to like any character who doesn't display perkiness.  ;-)

[Granny58]

3 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

HBIC

what is this?

[doodlebug]

Just now, Granny58 said:

what is this?

Head Beyotch in Charge, I think.

 

3 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

I wouldn't mind if that new HBIC bit the big one.  Don't care about her implied sad backstory; don't care about her.  Loved Morris snapping back at her.

I'm sad to see Abby go.  I tend to like any character who doesn't display perkiness.  ;-)

I tend to dislike any character who is so anti-perky, she sucks the life out of any scene she's in.  The whining, the moping, the low energy; it really dragged the show down, IMO, especially given the disproportionate amount of screentime given to the character.

[walnutqueen]

Well then, just call me anti-perky, and life-sucking, for that matter.  I consider it a compliment!  ;-)

 

ETA - did I mention I am AbbyNormal?

Edited January 6, 2018 by walnutqueen

[casey65]

Doodlebug thank you for the explanation. Was there any implication that Neela did anything wrong, or that someone should have caught anything sooner...? 

Agree with everyone on how great the scene with Pratt crying as they worked on him was.  From the time they intubated him, MP acted his ass off with his eyes and facial expressions. This episode was right up there with some of my favorite classic episodes. 

I watched these later seasons very sporadically when they first aired and remember absolutely hating Angela Bassett’s character.  What was that terrible GI Jane montage at the start of the show? 

I didn’t appreciate the poem? that Abby was voiceovering in her final episode.  The poem itself was very un-Abby like.  And as much as I love GV I couldn’t help but be a little peeved when he popped up in the last minute, felt kind of like a rip-off of the Doug/Carol final scene.

Edited January 6, 2018 by casey65

[ShortyMac]

22 minutes ago, casey65 said:

I didn’t appreciate the poem? that Abby was voiceovering in her final episode.  The poem itself was very un-Abby like. 

It was from the Bible; the book of Job.