All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[debraran]

1 hour ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

Romano had some great scenes.  like when Lizzy was so pregnant, and he sent her pizza and ice cream, when he tried everything to save Lucy, and failed, when he fished Lizzy's wedding ring out of the drain after Mark died.      The episode with his sick dog was so great.  

Yes, and her mom brought that up again when she met him again at wedding. "You were operating on a dog, weren't you?" And Romano says something like "And you were at an Astrology seminar?" It was Astronomy Robert. Well, he continues the guests are starting to eat each other and taking bets. After he reassures her Greene is on his way after saving a pregnant woman and he pauses and says "You look beautiful Elizabeth. Greene is a lucky man. 

I forgot about the ring, that was sweet too .

Edited December 13, 2020 by debraran

[Bastet]

Romano was an utter jackass, but they always sprinkled in a few ways in which he wasn't.  Contrast that with Frank, who had not one redeeming quality, so that when they introduced us to his family and tried to claim he was this sweet man who spoke highly at home of the co-workers he treated like shit it just didn't wash.

[readster]

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

Romano was an utter jackass, but they always sprinkled in a few ways in which he wasn't.  Contrast that with Frank, who had not one redeeming quality, so that when they introduced us to his family and tried to claim he was this sweet man who spoke highly at home of the co-workers he treated like shit it just didn't wash.

Yeah, no kidding. Like how later on when we met Jerry's mom and she yelled at the hospital for paying him crap all those years, and then found out he almost went to laws school. Like they wanted us to feel sorry for these characters, but they never really did well with the backstory on them. "Here's an ass or let's act like this person is treated horribly by the hospital, but give answer why... nah it's good story telling." 🙄

[debraran]

12 hours ago, Bastet said:

Romano was an utter jackass, but they always sprinkled in a few ways in which he wasn't.  Contrast that with Frank, who had not one redeeming quality, so that when they introduced us to his family and tried to claim he was this sweet man who spoke highly at home of the co-workers he treated like shit it just didn't wash.

They could have done a lot with Romano and many on the set didn't like what they did after Mark's death with his writing. As an interviewer said "They made you one dimensional"  re Paul McCrane. Others, they had much less backstory but sexual harassment was always around. Pratt came on and within 10 minutes, hit on Jing Mei and made numerous comments about sleeping with her and bugging her. Abby would say someone had a "nice ass" all things today that would get you in trouble. Overall though, they were products of their upbringing and allowed to act that way. They could have had growth but the writers later chose to not do it. Perfect people would have been boring, but they pushed it too far.

Edited December 14, 2020 by debraran

[Kel Varnsen]

On 12/12/2020 at 4:32 PM, debraran said:

Long pause, then a soft "Yes."

"Well, I don't think I can," is Elizabeth's angry response. You will he says.

"

 

Such a waste of a character as we have said. Very touching few minutes.

That is a great scene because it works for the Romano who is basically her best friend and someone who cares about her, but it also works for the jerk Romano because on the surface he is basically saying you have to go back to him since that is what you signed up for when you got married.

On disc 2 of season 9. Not enjoying it as much as season 8. Seems like there is too much Corday and hardly any Susan and Luka being a jerk is annoying. Plus there is this weird episode (the one where Carter does a walkout, where Susan is treating a patient who is basically comatose and they intubate him with his mother there and then the mom acts all distraught and turns off the vent. But if she didn't want him on the vent why not just refuse the treatment?

Although the Halloween episode had an interesting line about how Corday and her family did a wizard of oz theme costume the year before and Mark was the Scarecrow (if he only had a brain). That is some subtle but messed up/funny writing.

Also it is funny that Tony Stark's best friend and the girl he had a fling with are both med students.

[Growsonwalls]

The scene with Romano's dog Gretel was so great.

It reminds me of the time we saw Tommy Lascelle's dogs on The Crown. The prickliest people can still love dogs.

[debraran]

7 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

The scene with Romano's dog Gretel was so great.

It reminds me of the time we saw Tommy Lascelle's dogs on The Crown. The prickliest people can still love dogs.

Yes, they made him void of family, his mom was never mentioned when he was hurt but I did wonder about Gretel. ; ) I felt Romano put walls up because he wasn't a Clooney type and found his only respect was being smart and really good at what he did. You did see the mystery blonde once in a while with him but assumed she was for fun, not a relationship.

8 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

That is a great scene because it works for the Romano who is basically her best friend and someone who cares about her, but it also works for the jerk Romano because on the surface he is basically saying you have to go back to him since that is what you signed up for when you got married.

On disc 2 of season 9. Not enjoying it as much as season 8. Seems like there is too much Corday and hardly any Susan and Luka being a jerk is annoying. Plus there is this weird episode (the one where Carter does a walkout, where Susan is treating a patient who is basically comatose and they intubate him with his mother there and then the mom acts all distraught and turns off the vent. But if she didn't want him on the vent why not just refuse the treatment?

Although the Halloween episode had an interesting line about how Corday and her family did a wizard of oz theme costume the year before and Mark was the Scarecrow (if he only had a brain). That is some subtle but messed up/funny writing.

Also it is funny that Tony Stark's best friend and the girl he had a fling with are both med students.

I felt he knew she loved Mark but was overwhelmed too. She only moved out because of Rachel. He felt like that about parents too, you don't dump a kid when he isn't what you ordered.

I watched The Beach again after a long time. Still cried.  They played that version of "Over the Rainbow" on Finding Forrester with Sean Connery when he passed and I cried then too.

Watching the plague one afterwards did bring a lot home for today and even the arguing from the ER patients about their rights, wanting to leave, wanting to break down the door, made my husband in another room, think I was watching TV news!

I forgot that was the episode they had Romano lose his arm in this soap opera fashion of being an idiot and no one seeming to care that much even then. The beginning of the end for me. Abby was also annoying with Carter and her obsession with her hair and "not needing to being fixed" If they didn't get different writers about this time, something happened. Things were not subtle anymore and more sexual and annoying at times. Someone speculated once with a long running show, they know fans will tune in with less effort but I feel Green left at just the right time and Benton. There were still some great episodes but watching this way without years between them, it's too obvious of the change in quality.

 

Most of these deleted scenes needed to be deleted but I do love the last one with Ella walking. ; )

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by debraran

[readster]

2 hours ago, debraran said:

Yes, they made him void of family, his mom was never mentioned when he was hurt but I did wonder about Gretel. ; ) I felt Romano put walls up because he wasn't a Clooney type and found his only respect was being smart and really good at what he did. You did see the mystery blonde once in a while with him but assumed she was for fun, not a relationship.

I forgot that was the episode they had Romano lose his arm in this soap opera fashion of being an idiot and no one seeming to care that much even then. The beginning of the end for me. Abby was also annoying with Carter and her obsession with her hair and "not needing to being fixed" If they didn't get different writers about this time, something happened. Things were not subtle anymore and more sexual and annoying at times. Someone speculated once with a long running show, they know fans will tune in with less effort but I feel Green left at just the right time and Benton. There were still some great episodes but watching this way without years between them, it's too obvious of the change in quality.

That's the thing it all came up too stupid, plus Romano even was shown to basically have "never gotten married". So, really a guy like him, who was apparently given every excuse because he "was the most awesomeness" surgeon. Never got married or had regular relationships and then Lizzy walks in from the UK and he's head over heels in love. Then the helicopter the first time, seriously, not only the fact he was not paying attention, but how the clipboard blew that far away towards the back rotor. I mean, medical choppers are designed to keep things far away from the main door area to keep that kind of stuff from happening. Plus, he got up in just the most perfect spot to cut his arm off. 

Then thinking to the situation that lead to the helicopter crashing because the wind just changed on the dime and the pilot was: "oh no, me no remember flight school!" Then all the people who died in it were some rich dumbasses, but hey forget the poor nurse that was in there too. Plus, Romano having a: "NOOOOOOOO!" And no one seeing or hearing him or the fact he didn't run like hell towards the doors.

[Kel Varnsen]

2 hours ago, debraran said:

Watching the plague one afterwards did bring a lot home for today and even the arguing from the ER patients about their rights, wanting to leave, wanting to break down the door, made my husband in another room, think I was watching TV news!

The weird thing about the plague one is I still don't understand why they had to close the hospital with Carter and everyone in it. Surely County or some hospital in Chicago must have isolation rooms. Just have the 5 of them or whatever walk themselves to those, then come in and decontaminate the whole place. Could a major city like Chicago really handle a huge hospital like that being shut down for over 2 weeks? Am I missing something or does this make no sense?

 

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

The weird thing about the plague one is I still don't understand why they had to close the hospital with Carter and everyone in it. Surely County or some hospital in Chicago must have isolation rooms. Just have the 5 of them or whatever walk themselves to those, then come in and decontaminate the whole place. Could a major city like Chicago really handle a huge hospital like that being shut down for over 2 weeks? Am I missing something or does this make no sense?

 

It makes no sense.  They certainly might want to close the ER for a few hours for a thorough decontamination/cleaning; but there was no reason that all of them needed to be locked into an empty hospital for weeks except so we could somehow think it was just adorable that Abby dyed her hair with hospital supplies and Jing Mei and Pratt were doin' it like bunnies on every flat surface.

A large hospital like County probably does bone marrow transplants and other procedures that require controlled access which can be used for isolation.  Most every hospital has at least one room with laminar air flow to prevent the spread of infection.  Most hospitals have at least one of these on every unit.  I worked at a much smaller hospital than County and we even had a labor room in the birthing center that could be used for isolating an infectious patient.  Monkey pox could not have possibly been the first potentially fatal infectious disease ever seen there.

[readster]

2 hours ago, doodlebug said:

It makes no sense.  They certainly might want to close the ER for a few hours for a thorough decontamination/cleaning; but there was no reason that all of them needed to be locked into an empty hospital for weeks except so we could somehow think it was just adorable that Abby dyed her hair with hospital supplies and Jing Mei and Pratt were doin' it like bunnies on every flat surface.

A large hospital like County probably does bone marrow transplants and other procedures that require controlled access which can be used for isolation.  Most every hospital has at least one room with laminar air flow to prevent the spread of infection.  Most hospitals have at least one of these on every unit.  I worked at a much smaller hospital than County and we even had a labor room in the birthing center that could be used for isolating an infectious patient.  Monkey pox could not have possibly been the first potentially fatal infectious disease ever seen there.

Plus, a few years before that you had the chemical plant explosion that got it everywhere. They pretty much explained it was a few hours to get everything cleaned up and patients taken care of. Yet, oh a possible pox virus and the entire hospital shuts down for weeks on end? In the middle of Chicago? No, that's major fiction right there. 

[Kel Varnsen]

I watched the season 9 Kovac trainwreck episode Hindsight and man I did not like this one. It came out in 2002 and by that point it seems like backwards stories would be a played out gimmick (between the Seinfeld episode and their obvious inspiration Momento). Plus this whole season Instill have no idea why Luka has been acting like such an asshole (the hookers and the harassing nurses, and the sex with a patient's mom). Is it just because they had nothing else for him to do? Because I thought his story with the Bishop was him moving past his dead family. I also don't understand why Luka came into work that day. Couldn't he just tell Abby/Weaver he was drinking the night before and probably still intoxicated? The Dough Ross trainwreck episode where his one night stand dies was way better.

The only thing I liked was how the med student played by Leslie Bibb totally shut down his advances.  And it makes me wish Leslie Bibb had been a bigger star, since she is a decent actress plus gorgeous.

[readster]

19 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I watched the season 9 Kovac trainwreck episode Hindsight and man I did not like this one. It came out in 2002 and by that point it seems like backwards stories would be a played out gimmick (between the Seinfeld episode and their obvious inspiration Momento). Plus this whole season Instill have no idea why Luka has been acting like such an asshole (the hookers and the harassing nurses, and the sex with a patient's mom). Is it just because they had nothing else for him to do? Because I thought his story with the Bishop was him moving past his dead family. I also don't understand why Luka came into work that day. Couldn't he just tell Abby/Weaver he was drinking the night before and probably still intoxicated? The Dough Ross trainwreck episode where his one night stand dies was way better.

The only thing I liked was how the med student played by Leslie Bibb totally shut down his advances.  And it makes me wish Leslie Bibb had been a bigger star, since she is a decent actress plus gorgeous.

Leslie Bibbs even calls out how stupid the episode was an episode later with: "Then why did you decide to go in? Why did you even think of driving?" She was concerned for him, but Luka was just in trainwreck mode then and the writers had no idea what to do with him and even the actor himself was planning on leaving in a year once his contract was about to end.

[CrazyInAlabama]

I saw the rerun of the illness of Mark's father.   Luka was awful in that.   Benton is having to amputate a man's leg, because Luka sent the man home without any follow up, and never had anyone check on him from the wound/vascular clinic.   When Benton says you're doing inadequate medicine, then you are.    Luka's character was awful.    

[Kel Varnsen]

29 minutes ago, readster said:

Leslie Bibbs even calls out how stupid the episode was an episode later with: "Then why did you decide to go in? Why did you even think of driving?" She was concerned for him, but Luka was just in trainwreck mode then and the writers had no idea what to do with him and even the actor himself was planning on leaving in a year once his contract was about to end.

At least Luka had a storyline, even if is one that makes no sense. Susan has nothing going on and Carrie is hardly in the episodes (was she pregnant in real life or something?). And I do not care at all about Abby's stupid brother. It actually would have been more interesting to make Susan the character who is sleeping around outside of work.

And yea the him going into work in that episode was dumb. I have never been a doctor, but I have had jobs with zero tolerance to alcohol because of life safety issues. I great way to get out of getting called in for extra work is to just say you had a couple of beers and it is not safe.

[readster]

36 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

 

And yea the him going into work in that episode was dumb. I have never been a doctor, but I have had jobs with zero tolerance to alcohol because of life safety issues. I great way to get out of getting called in for extra work is to just say you had a couple of beers and it is not safe.

We are also to expect that Luka didn't see signs of Forest Whitticker's character having a stroke or how he did some crazy illegal stuff after he lost his court case and then goes and kidnaps Abby and their son and also add in the fact he still had a key to his property that fell under he was hiding in. I mean the writers really didn't know how the courts or how the Chicago Real Estate Foreclosure market worked.

[Hava]

I watched "Be Still My Heart" again, and in their very first interaction that episode, Carter is an asshole to Lucy, who presents Sobreki's case to him and asks if Carter wants to evaluate him and Carter dismisses her. I was confused as to the reason for the hostility, so I watched the prior episode to see if anything had happened between them, and there was nothing! Ugh. Carter was an asshole just to be an asshole?

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, Hava said:

I watched "Be Still My Heart" again, and in their very first interaction that episode, Carter is an asshole to Lucy, who presents Sobreki's case to him and asks if Carter wants to evaluate him and Carter dismisses her. I was confused as to the reason for the hostility, so I watched the prior episode to see if anything had happened between them, and there was nothing! Ugh. Carter was an asshole just to be an asshole?

This was one of those times that the show totally sacrificed characterization for plot.  Carter was different from episode to episode depending on whether they needed him to be annoyed by Lucy or engaged in teaching her.  There was a lot of this kind of writing in the latter seasons.  I realize that people have different facets and their responses to and interactions with others can vary; but the show often didn't make sense; it felt like there were entire scenes that were dropped out of most episodes.  Overall, though, Be Still My Heart was a pretty good episode and it set us up for the tour de force that was All in the Family.

[Kel Varnsen]

3 hours ago, Hava said:

Ugh. Carter was an asshole just to be an asshole?

They took it too far but I can see Carter being a pretty crappy teacher. His main teacher was Benton whose style was hardass who was also kind of hands off. The worked because I think Carter was a better than average student who also wasn't afraid to bug Benton if he needed help. So I can see him not knowing how to handle a student who needed more attention but didn't know how to ask. Because that was the exact opposite of him.

 

[Hava]

17 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

They took it too far but I can see Carter being a pretty crappy teacher. His main teacher was Benton whose style was hardass who was also kind of hands off. The worked because I think Carter was a better than average student who also wasn't afraid to bug Benton if he needed help. So I can see him not knowing how to handle a student who needed more attention but didn't know how to ask. Because that was the exact opposite of him.

 

See, I would buy that as the reason if his treatment of Lucy wasn't contrasted with his treatment of Abby in the same episode. Abby is new and he is kind and supportive of her, even following her to the roof to check in on her after a hard day. 

[ShortyMac]

4 hours ago, readster said:

We are also to expect that Luka didn't see signs of Forest Whitticker's character having a stroke or how he did some crazy illegal stuff after he lost his court case and then goes and kidnaps Abby and their son and also add in the fact he still had a key to his property that fell under he was hiding in. I mean the writers really didn't know how the courts or how the Chicago Real Estate Foreclosure market worked.

All they showed was how packed the ER was, and how loud it was, that Luka missed Ames' heart murmur.

[WendyCR72]

As I have said before, I fully admit to bias and know it's wrong, but Lucy annoyed me so much that I didn't give a shit when Carter was a dick to her. Not that Abby was any sort of upgrade. Sigh...

[debraran]

24 minutes ago, Hava said:

See, I would buy that as the reason if his treatment of Lucy wasn't contrasted with his treatment of Abby in the same episode. Abby is new and he is kind and supportive of her, even following her to the roof to check in on her after a hard day. 

I never felt any chemistry with them at all either. I don't understand why Luka is looking at her with jealousy and she is sleeping with Carter but still pining for Luka and Carter can't just find someone outside of the ER. I watched the show where they go to a sexual harassment seminar and they laugh at Carter and his 11 year old loss of virginity with a 25 year old. (Well Abby and Susan) I found their whole conversation juvenile and Luka's honesty about his marriage and "first time" refreshing compared to them. There was some decent conversation but seeing them talk about who's really hot for whom was just silly and it was like 'who wrote this tripe?"

The show goes from Mark's death to a monkey pox show with very questionable medical information and Pratt hitting on Jing Mei and sexual tension while one child dies but really who cares? Elizabeth is upset and being rude and cold to everyone with one small break seeing her look at Mark's picture and tearing up, but that's it. Does anyone really care if Abby goes to an AA meeting or not?

I found some more deleted scenes with the old crew, some very funny, one with Romano kissing Kerry instead of talking and I think there was one with Lizzie too. They all had a good sense of humor and you can sense it in the outtakes. I wish the writers used the good they had to make the last part of ER better. The first half though will never be matched. As Clooney said, the chemistry and camaraderie was by chance but very real.

 

Edited December 16, 2020 by debraran

[debraran]

They liked to kiss on this show. lol

They had ones with Malucci crashing Kerry and Kim's dinner and other scenes, some I wish they kept in but some just for fun.

This has some pretty funny ones with Romano kissing Elizabeth and calling each other by their real names, some other things.

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by debraran

[Growsonwalls]

6 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

They took it too far but I can see Carter being a pretty crappy teacher. His main teacher was Benton whose style was hardass who was also kind of hands off. The worked because I think Carter was a better than average student who also wasn't afraid to bug Benton if he needed help. So I can see him not knowing how to handle a student who needed more attention but didn't know how to ask. Because that was the exact opposite of him.

 

I think this was one of those instances where BTS drama spilled over into real life. Noah Wyle and Kellie Martin did not get along and I thought their anti-chemistry was evident by the time Lucy left the show.

Kellie Martin also said she was closest to Alex Kingston and it kind of makes sense that in her departing episode it was Lizzie who worked the hardest to save her. 

[PepSinger]

Honestly, I think Abby was a redo of Lucy as far as far as introductions. I didn't remember the season five premiere, so I watched it last week on Pop. Her intro is horrid, especially when you remember it with S4's cliffhanger ending. 

I feel bad for Kellie Martin because she could have worked on this show had she joined later in the show's run. It was really bad timing personally for her. That'll always be a big "what if" for me. 

I also watched Doug's exit last week, which I hadn't seen in YEARS. I always managed to miss it. Good grief, his selfishness is off the charts. I was glad Carol called him out on it. I also hate that they made her pregnant after Doug left. It made Doug look like a deadbeat asshole. Also, who tells someone they're going to be pregnant by FAX??? I have never heard of a person giving someone their fax number as a way to get in touch with them. 

[Danny Franks]

19 hours ago, Hava said:

I watched "Be Still My Heart" again, and in their very first interaction that episode, Carter is an asshole to Lucy, who presents Sobreki's case to him and asks if Carter wants to evaluate him and Carter dismisses her. I was confused as to the reason for the hostility, so I watched the prior episode to see if anything had happened between them, and there was nothing! Ugh. Carter was an asshole just to be an asshole?

By that stage, Carter and Lucy seemed to be in a place where they just didn't have much respect for each other. The show had tried to do the antagonistic 'ugh, I hate you but I have the hots for you' thing with them in season five, and it had flopped badly. Lucy had already started to fade from the show, and her role as Carter's student had been wrapped up so he could move onto other storylines. He had that fling with his cousin's ex-wife, and I seem to remember he was involved in the Alan Alda storyline - was it not Carter who first twigged that Dr. Lawrence was struggling with Alzheimer's, only for Kerry to shout him down?

15 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

They took it too far but I can see Carter being a pretty crappy teacher. His main teacher was Benton whose style was hardass who was also kind of hands off. The worked because I think Carter was a better than average student who also wasn't afraid to bug Benton if he needed help. So I can see him not knowing how to handle a student who needed more attention but didn't know how to ask. Because that was the exact opposite of him.

I didn't mind that part of it, when you think about how the characters would realistically act. Lucy assured Carter that she knew how to do things that she didn't, she started to rely on nurses for help when Carter was being highhanded and puffing his chest out about how great his student was.

Then, when he did find out she'd been lying to him, he was embarrassed and felt like she's shown him up as a bad teacher (which he was, because he wasn't really spending time making sure she knew things, just believed her when she said she did).

Carter generally struggled with being on the superior side of the teacher/student dynamic. He didn't know how to handle John Henry, his student who was only interested in clinical research, he didn't know how to handle Lucy and he let Pratt completely defy him more than once, just laughing off his clear insubordination.

15 hours ago, Hava said:

See, I would buy that as the reason if his treatment of Lucy wasn't contrasted with his treatment of Abby in the same episode. Abby is new and he is kind and supportive of her, even following her to the roof to check in on her after a hard day. 

He was with Gallant as well. I think he responded better to students who were clearly in need of help than he did to those who acted like they didn't need anything. To go back to my previous paragraph, those he struggled with were students who didn't neatly fall into the subordinate role like he had done with Benton.

5 hours ago, PepSinger said:

I feel bad for Kellie Martin because she could have worked on this show had she joined later in the show's run. It was really bad timing personally for her. That'll always be a big "what if" for me. 

For the life of me, I don't know why the writers thought a medical student would be a good solution to the 'love interest for Carter' conundrum. The show had made it clear that relationships between doctors and med students were inappropriate yet they wanted the viewers to root for a couple despite that? Why not just bring in another doctor, or a new nurse? Hell, they brought Julie Bowen in to be his love interest in season five, even though she was clearly intended to be temporary and a spur for Lucy to realise she's got a crush on Carter.

[Kel Varnsen]

15 hours ago, Hava said:

See, I would buy that as the reason if his treatment of Lucy wasn't contrasted with his treatment of Abby in the same episode. Abby is new and he is kind and supportive of her, even following her to the roof to check in on her after a hard day. 

In my head I think the idea was that Abby was the kind of med student who was more like him. She was probably more competent than most, and wasn't afraid to ask if she didn't know something. So he knew how to teach that and could just copy Benton. Lucy needed way more help but didn't know to ask for it. At least that is what I think they were going for, not sure if they pulled it off.

[Danny Franks]

So I just discovered the ER channel on YouTube, which is posting high quality clips from throughout the history of the show. One scene that I immediately had to watch, because it's so charming:

It's such a fun scene. Carter being surprisingly suave and starting to flirt a bit with Susan (who can blame him? She looks amazing) and Susan reciprocating. One of my favourite line deliveries has always been her "who are you?" when Carter says he was thinking of asking Chloe out. Sherry Stringfield perfectly captures that bemused, stunned confusion.

I know it's teased and then dropped a few episodes later, but if ER was ever going to do a doctor/med student relationship, it should have been this.

It's also interesting how this Carter, just ten or so episodes into season one, seems more mature than he was a lot of the time in following seasons.

It seems like whoever is running that account is a big fan of the Cs - there's a lot of Carter, Carol and Corday on there, but not a whole lot of Mark, Doug, Susan, Kerry etc.

[Dr.OO7]

I forgot to mark the 25th anniversary of "Hell And High Water". My favorite episode and the one that got me hooked.

The music enhances every scene and that shot of Doug emerging from the water with the kid in his arms is PHENOMENAL.

Edited December 19, 2020 by Dr.OO7

[Dr.OO7]

On 12/16/2020 at 11:58 AM, Kel Varnsen said:

The Dough Ross trainwreck episode where his one night stand dies was way better.

I really hated them rehashing Doug's behavior with Luka, right down to the "Last Call" ripoff. It just didn't fit Luka's character.

[ShortyMac]

7 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

So I just discovered the ER channel on YouTube, which is posting high quality clips from throughout the history of the show. One scene that I immediately had to watch, because it's so charming:

It's such a fun scene. Carter being surprisingly suave and starting to flirt a bit with Susan (who can blame him? She looks amazing) and Susan reciprocating. One of my favourite line deliveries has always been her "who are you?" when Carter says he was thinking of asking Chloe out. Sherry Stringfield perfectly captures that bemused, stunned confusion.

I know it's teased and then dropped a few episodes later, but if ER was ever going to do a doctor/med student relationship, it should have been this.

It's also interesting how this Carter, just ten or so episodes into season one, seems more mature than he was a lot of the time in following seasons.

It seems like whoever is running that account is a big fan of the Cs - there's a lot of Carter, Carol and Corday on there, but not a whole lot of Mark, Doug, Susan, Kerry etc.

I wonder how that channel gets around copyright/ownership from WB. I know it's down in the description, but, I'm surprised they haven't had it taken down. I guess it's because WB monetizes it, via ads. I love having HQ clips from the show.

[WendyCR72]

8 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

So I just discovered the ER channel on YouTube, which is posting high quality clips from throughout the history of the show. One scene that I immediately had to watch, because it's so charming:

It's such a fun scene. Carter being surprisingly suave and starting to flirt a bit with Susan (who can blame him? She looks amazing) and Susan reciprocating. One of my favourite line deliveries has always been her "who are you?" when Carter says he was thinking of asking Chloe out. Sherry Stringfield perfectly captures that bemused, stunned confusion.

I know it's teased and then dropped a few episodes later, but if ER was ever going to do a doctor/med student relationship, it should have been this.

It's also interesting how this Carter, just ten or so episodes into season one, seems more mature than he was a lot of the time in following seasons.

It seems like whoever is running that account is a big fan of the Cs - there's a lot of Carter, Carol and Corday on there, but not a whole lot of Mark, Doug, Susan, Kerry etc.

Yes. to all of this. I LOVED this scene, and the near-kiss in "The Gift". Still say they were doomed to fail in S8 with the Abby specter looming. With Susan saying she dated younger men in the finale, and then them walking arm-in-arm with Rachel to County, I'd like to think Carter and Susan were finally in a place to start over fresh and see where things led.

[debraran]

On 12/18/2020 at 7:38 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Yes. to all of this. I LOVED this scene, and the near-kiss in "The Gift". Still say they were doomed to fail in S8 with the Abby specter looming. With Susan saying she dated younger men in the finale, and then them walking arm-in-arm with Rachel to County, I'd like to think Carter and Susan were finally in a place to start over fresh and see where things led.

I'm trying to get by the different writing after Mark died. Kovac is spirling and it's tiring after seeing Ross do it, Abby is all over all the scenes and her character just isn't that strong. I might be in the minority but why so many scenes with her brother and his disease? Galant takes off with her to help and Sally gets another appearance but even she seems like she's walking through the lines. Then Abby's with Carter telling telling him what to do with his family money but he can't tell her what to do with anything. Romano is a now one dimensional and if part of a shown depression and help, fine but they don't do that. Pratt has better stories but telling a drug addicted older brother he can "step up to the plate" and take care of his 2 younger siblings was just odd without any other help provided. It's okay Kerry forges health documents for an alderman but if anyone else did it.... I realize though that leads up the funny outtakes posted above with Romano kissing Kerry and saying how they got a lot of money because of the alderman's "care" I"ll remember that scene when they show the real one and smile.

I know there are better stories coming but I've never used FF as much trying to find them. Still an escape and easier to watch while multi-tasking but I miss the old crew.

Edited December 21, 2020 by debraran

[Guest]

7 hours ago, debraran said:

Abby is all over all the scenes and her character just isn't that strong

I quit watching the show in Season 8 of the original run due largely to being sick of the Abby show. On my rewatch, I'm on Season 9 and feel vindicated that 20 year old me could at least make some good decisions.

[Kel Varnsen]

7 hours ago, debraran said:

I'm trying to get by the different writing after Mark died. Kovac is spirling and it's tiring after seeing Ross do it, Abby is all over all the scenes and her character just isn't that strong. I might be in the minority but why so many scenes with her brother and his disease? Galant takes off with her to help and Sally gets another appearance but even she seems like she's walking through the lines. Then Abby's with Carter telling telling him what to do with his family money but he can't tell her what to do with anything. Romano is a now one dimensional and if part of a shown depression and help, fine but they don't do that. Pratt has better stories but telling a drug addicted older brother he can "step up to the plate" and take care of his 2 younger siblings was just odd without any other help provided. It's okay Kerry forges health documents for an alderman but if anyone else did it.... I realize though that leads up the funny outtakes posted above with Romano kissing Kerry and saying how they got a lot of money because of the alderman's "care" I"ll remember that scene when they show the real one and smile.

I am almost finished that season and I still don't understand why Luka is spiraling. 

I like Abby the nurse and I don't really mind Abby and Carter but the stuff with Abby's brother and her mom is super lame.

I also don't understand what the story of Ed Asner was supposed to be. Was he a con artist or just a regular guy who took advantage of the money from Carter?

The mentioned above about Pratt and the older brother having to take care of his siblings wasn't bad. The best part was that the brother was Aaron Paul (the future Jesse from Breaking Bad') who even back then had solid acting skill (better than some cast members).

[CrazyInAlabama]

My interpretation of the Ed Asner story was he was a serial con man, and found an easy mark in Carter. 

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I am almost finished that season and I still don't understand why Luka is spiraling. 

I like Abby the nurse and I don't really mind Abby and Carter but the stuff with Abby's brother and her mom is super lame.

I also don't understand what the story of Ed Asner was supposed to be. Was he a con artist or just a regular guy who took advantage of the money from Carter?

 

The Asner storyline made no sense whatsoever.  Remember that Carter met Asner's character when he came to the ER for medical care for himself.  Presuming that Carter, being the only ER doctor there with access to the kind of ready money that Asner hoped to score was always going to be his target, are we to assume that Asner waited for Carter to come on shift, that he stalked him or managed to get a copy of the work schedule and then timed his blood sugar to peak right then?  That, when he came to the ER, he just got randomly assigned to Carter? Or requested Carter despite never having met him and Carter just happened to be available and nobody asked why?  And, that, for weeks or months prior to coming to County, Asner's character set up a phony medical clinic in the inner city and ran it so that he would have a set up to show Carter?  Or that Carter could somehow access funds from the Carter Foundation and make a donation without anyone doing even a cursory evaluation of the clinic and asking some pertinent questions?  That Carter, employed by a county operated hospital, wouldn't have gone to Social Services there to see what they knew about this clinic and perhaps see how the county might also help?

Abby's story got told so often that, by Season 9, we knew what was coming.  Abby has a relative who embarrasses her by being mentally ill?  Check.  Abby behaves like a controlling beyotch with said relative, repeatedly trying to get them locked up and out of her hair rather than spend a single moment considering what might be best?  Check.  Said relative then escapes from Abby's clutches and goes AWOL?  Check.  Abby eventually locates said relative and then orders Carter to not only foot the bill, but drop everything to accompany her in an ill conceived road trip to corral the wayward family member?  Check.  Abby repeatedly insists that various medical professionals are wrong or simply ignorant and cannot possibly know more about treating mental illness than she does?  Check. Eric's story was Maggie's story too.  I don't know what exactly it was about MT that made TPTB think that the entire show should revolve around her, but, by Season 9, less than 4 years after she first showed up, Abby was front and center, the first among equals, the center of the ER universe.  MT is a decent actress, but this show always had above average actors in the main cast for the most part; I have no idea why TPTB thought the show should feature miserable, whiny Abby week after week.

[WendyCR72]

4 hours ago, deaja said:

I quit watching the show in Season 8 of the original run due largely to being sick of the Abby show. On my rewatch, I'm on Season 9 and feel vindicated that 20 year old me could at least make some good decisions.

So much THIS!  I stopped because of Abby, too. Was pleasantly surprised that she never popped back up in S15 and allowed the show to go out on a high note.

[Kel Varnsen]

2 hours ago, doodlebug said:

The Asner storyline made no sense whatsoever.  Remember that Carter met Asner's character when he came to the ER for medical care for himself.  Presuming that Carter, being the only ER doctor there with access to the kind of ready money that Asner hoped to score was always going to be his target, are we to assume that Asner waited for Carter to come on shift, that he stalked him or managed to get a copy of the work schedule and then timed his blood sugar to peak right then?  That, when he came to the ER, he just got randomly assigned to Carter? Or requested Carter despite never having met him and Carter just happened to be available and nobody asked why?  And, that, for weeks or months prior to coming to County, Asner's character set up a phony medical clinic in the inner city and ran it so that he would have a set up to show Carter?  Or that Carter could somehow access funds from the Carter Foundation and make a donation without anyone doing even a cursory evaluation of the clinic and asking some pertinent questions?  That Carter, employed by a county operated hospital, wouldn't have gone to Social Services there to see what they knew about this clinic and perhaps see how the county might also help?

Exactly what was his con? Was it some kind of long con thing where he sets up a inner city clinic that may or may not be fake and waits for a rich benefactor to make a donation? Or did he target Carter because he knew he was loaded and use his actual diabetes to form a relationship? Or was he running some other kind of fake clinic scam and he ran into Carter by chance, got a bunch of money and took off with it. Because none of those really make sense 100%.

Also it was weird that Carter could hand over that guy a bunch of money but Carol had to jump through a crazy amount of hoops to get funding for her clinic from the Carter foundation.

Edited December 21, 2020 by Kel Varnsen

[debraran]

12 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Exactly what was his con? Was it some kind of long con thing where he sets up a inner city clinic that may or may not be fake and waits for a rich benefactor to make a donation? Or did he target Carter because he knew he was loaded and use his actual diabetes to form a relationship? Or was he running some other kind of fake clinic scam and he ran into Carter by chance, got a bunch of money and took off with it. Because none of those really make sense 100%.

Also it was weird that Carter could hand over that guy a bunch of money but Carol had to jump through a crazy amount of hoops to get funding for her clinic from the Carter foundation.

It was like Ed decided not to do another show or maybe the writing was just that bad. No way would this happen season 1-5 but then again, Carol's clinic disappeared.  Any doctor can be looked up and that was a very elaborate clinic ruse. No other idiot would hand over a check like that and his Gamma wanted HIM to be treasurer of the foundation???

Regarding Pratt and the young man on drugs, (and he was a good actor) I meant Pratt was talking to him  about taking care of his 2 younger siblings and it wasn't like his situation with his brother..  I know he did something similar but Pratt was an adult and his foster brother was an adult when he was shot. This kid could barely take care of himself, the story seemed very off. Being separated is wrong but who would leave them with an estranged older brother, being so unstable? If he cleaned himself up, in time he could but trying to say "I did it" to me seemed like apples and oranges. The stories also seem to end quickly and not always tie up lose ends. Kovac calls cop on dad and thinks it's abuse, it's not, but there is no believable dialogue at times.

I thought after the touching Bishop scene with Kovac which was nice, he seemed happy for an episode and I thought maybe a turn in his moodiness with his confession and guilt lifted. Then he got worse so they ruined that thought. Even Doug unless I'm forgetting didn't make that many mistakes or paid prostitutes and took a patients check for 10,000 to help pay for them? (am I missing something?)

Susan buys Kerry a baby outfit at what,  12 weeks if that's right, just at the moment Kerry miscarries and takes it to work with her instead of waiting. A bit much.  Hopefully it will be better next time I watch. At least it's nice to be able to erase Abby at will, something I couldn't do on TV. ; ) I think Carter starts to talk about going away to help others soon. That was another big change in episodes.

 

 

Edited December 22, 2020 by debraran

[RedbirdNelly]

somewhere in these 94 pages are posts from me questioning the Ed Asner storyline when it first aired on Pop. It made no sense at all. Very sloppy writing. We're also supposed to believe Ed Asner just clears out that space overnight where the clinic was. If you are getting a big guest star, you should have a reasonable exit storyline--like Alan Alda getting ill. 

[readster]

6 minutes ago, RedbirdNelly said:

somewhere in these 94 pages are posts from me questioning the Ed Asner storyline when it first aired on Pop. It made no sense at all. Very sloppy writing. We're also supposed to believe Ed Asner just clears out that space overnight where the clinic was. If you are getting a big guest star, you should have a reasonable exit storyline--like Alan Alda getting ill. 

Yes, it makes no sense and he would have had one hell of a con to get everything set up like that. I mean, Bob Newhart's story line had a beginning, middle and end and was well acted. Asner was not only a bit "huh?" Couldn't Carter of just cancelled the check?

[Hava]

The focus on Abby was irritating, but there was one moment or episode that made me like her character. It was with a pregnant woman who was basically only having children for her husband, and Abby actually counseled her about the possibility of abortion. The show up to this point had a hostile attitude towards abortion and was, to my eyes anyway, very pro-birth and pro-motherhood, so for Abby to have this moment was very refreshing and very in line with what I would expect from an ethical physician presenting all options to a patient. 

[doodlebug]

21 minutes ago, Hava said:

The focus on Abby was irritating, but there was one moment or episode that made me like her character. It was with a pregnant woman who was basically only having children for her husband, and Abby actually counseled her about the possibility of abortion. The show up to this point had a hostile attitude towards abortion and was, to my eyes anyway, very pro-birth and pro-motherhood, so for Abby to have this moment was very refreshing and very in line with what I would expect from an ethical physician presenting all options to a patient. 

Except for the fact that Abby then rushed the woman upstairs to have an 'emergency' abortion before she changed her mind or her husband found out.  I didn't see Abby being even-handed with her counseling of the patient.  As she did with her mother, her brother and even her old professor; Abby decided what was best for her and then engineered the outcome to be sure the woman didn't change her mind.  There were obviously a lot of problems in the husband-wife relationship as presented on the show; the fact that Abby took it upon herself to arrange an immediate abortion and then lied to the husband was not going to help.  The woman was clearly passive and easily dominated and Abby took advantage of that, just like the husband had.

The show was also pretty fair in the storyline surrounding Abby's history of abortion.  She didn't seem to regret it, the show didn't sugarcoat or excuse her reasons for doing it: bad marriage and a fear she wouldn't be a good mother are not unusual, but it is unusual to have a main character choose to terminate a pregnancy without a medical indication.  The fact that Abby never told her husband about the pregnancy didn't make her look any better, either.  But, yet, the show simply presented this information matter of factly; no excuses or regrets.  Of course, this was probably in part to set up Abby making a different choice with her next unplanned pregnancy so her amazing newfound parenting and partnership skills would be contrasted.

We also had Abby keep Nicole's abortion from Luka; which is, of course, only proper since she discovered it in the course of her workday.  We were supposed to ignore the fact that she went snooping around the surgical department to confirm her suspicions; but, once again, the story didn't paint Nicole as a bad person (at least not for that) nor was there any inference that Abby should've squealed and told Luka about it.

I actually thought the show did ok with abortion which is a difficult subject for any show.  We saw the abortion clinic bombing and Anna hesitating about completing the procedure in a patient brought to the ER while Kerry stepped in and reminded her that the patient's life was at stake.  Anna later was shown to be concerned that perhaps her personal beliefs had gotten in the way.  Another time, a woman came to the ER with severe nausea and vomiting in pregnancy.  The show took a lot of dramatic license with the storyline claiming that anti nausea meds cause birth defects (they don't) and that severe hyperemesis was potentially fatal (no, it's not).  The woman's husband wanted her to terminate the pregnancy while the woman wanted to continue.  Anna was supportive of the woman making the decision and the husband, hearing Anna's Italian surname, accused her of using her Catholic faith to talk people out of abortions.  

[Hava]

19 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Except for the fact that Abby then rushed the woman upstairs to have an 'emergency' abortion before she changed her mind or her husband found out.  I didn't see Abby being even-handed with her counseling of the patient.  As she did with her mother, her brother and even her old professor; Abby decided what was best for her and then engineered the outcome to be sure the woman didn't change her mind.  There were obviously a lot of problems in the husband-wife relationship as presented on the show; the fact that Abby took it upon herself to arrange an immediate abortion and then lied to the husband was not going to help.  The woman was clearly passive and easily dominated and Abby took advantage of that, just like the husband had.

I saw that differently. I saw that as Abby recognizing that this woman would not be able to get an abortion (that she voiced wanting) if her husband was involved. And, also, her husband was not entitled to information about his wife. 

And the abortion clinic storyline left a really bad taste in my mouth, I think ending with Kerry's patient (who wanted an abortion) being an asshole. 

Edited December 24, 2020 by Hava

[Kel Varnsen]

So I finished season 9 tonight and after watching the episodes where Romano is in charge of the ER, it really got me wondering, why does he work at county? He clearly has no interest in trying to help people with no insurance and is happy to give great service to those who do. He seemed to have the same attitude before his accident. Now I don't know exactly how the US system works, but couldn't he just get a job at a hospital where only people with insurance can go?

[Heathen]

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

So I finished season 9 tonight and after watching the episodes where Romano is in charge of the ER, it really got me wondering, why does he work at county? He clearly has no interest in trying to help people with no insurance and is happy to give great service to those who do. He seemed to have the same attitude before his accident. Now I don't know exactly how the US system works, but couldn't he just get a job at a hospital where only people with insurance can go?

He could have; there are "boutique" doctors who don't take insurance. But remember, County doctors are far superior in every way to those self-centered, less skilled, not as intelligent private practice/other hospital doctors. /snark I'm sure the writers just wanted to demonstrate that Romano, although he was an ass in many ways, was one of the County elites and thus he continued to treat those free-loading bottom-feeders. /also snark 

The first time Romano was mentioned on the show, Benton says he's never met Romano because "the man's in Europe ten months out of the year." Funny how Romano's apparent international renown went by the wayside when the writers needed someone to be the token bully/misogynist/human resources nightmare. 

[PepSinger]

I still — to this day— do not understand how Romano was made Chief of the ER. WTF? 

[debraran]

5 hours ago, Heathen said:

He could have; there are "boutique" doctors who don't take insurance. But remember, County doctors are far superior in every way to those self-centered, less skilled, not as intelligent private practice/other hospital doctors. /snark I'm sure the writers just wanted to demonstrate that Romano, although he was an ass in many ways, was one of the County elites and thus he continued to treat those free-loading bottom-feeders. /also snark 

The first time Romano was mentioned on the show, Benton says he's never met Romano because "the man's in Europe ten months out of the year." Funny how Romano's apparent international renown went by the wayside when the writers needed someone to be the token bully/misogynist/human resources nightmare. 

I do remember him allowing a patient to have a procedure once who wasn't supposed too even though he gave Peter a hard time another. He mumbled something but it was quick and maybe my memory isn't correct. Docs who are in charge of the money, on the boards, can be that way. I worked with docs that would take medicaid when others wouldn't and the partners would get mad because it lowered their bottom line. When I lamented their policies billing showed me what they got from medicare and medicaid vs other insurances which made me realize our country does need major insurance reform. They did get a lot less for each procedure, thousands at times, but they made sure to give enough MRI's and other tests to make up for it. No medical help should be how much money you have. Romano and Kerry were right about HMO's back then. It was usually HMO issues on the show. They chose where you were seen and what doctor's you saw and that is just the way it was. If they took them, it's a freebie, insurance wont pay. When you know they have insurance vs not having it at all, we weren't supposed to do self pay or put in no insurance.

Re the abortion show with Abby, I felt for the patient and hated how she seemed to be having children for no other reason that to have them but Abby was projecting her views on her and wanted to "hurry it up" before husband could influence her. In the end, it didn't matter, because as soon as she could, she would have another. Sadly that was a band-aid and not a fix. I was more upset at the woman who wanted her baby to die and pretended she didn't know she was pregnant with Kovac. No matter what he said, she wanted to bleed and let the baby die. It's hard but her choice. He also tried his best to change her mind but failed. I like episodes that don't preach much but make you think, make you put yourself in their place, step back. Not always done well, most shows preach loudly in one way, but sometimes it works.