All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, doodlebug said:

We also saw Carter try to be frank with Ruby about his wife's condition several times, only to have Ruby ignore him and rattle on and on about how she was going to dance again, etc.  There are people out there like Ruby who only hear what they want to hear and then blame others when their fantasy doesn't come true.

And I cannot handle those people, so Ruby bugged the shit out of me.  The only time I was on his side was at the funeral, when he dismissed Carter, telling him the day is not about him (or something like that; I haven't seen it in a while).

5 hours ago, Birdie said:

Re: Carol. I just watched one of the eps of her “possibly going to med school” arc, and it begins with her snapping at her mother for being “dismissive” and not “encouraging her to dream” (or whatever) and not believing in her. But her mother didn’t say anything of the sort! Her mother cooked her breakfast, and I forget what she said, but it wasn’t anything remotely bad or dismissive. But Carol loses it, and yells, “You’re always doing that! Making me feel like I’m not good enough! Or I can’t do anything!” Like, uh, your mom didn’t say anything like that. 

I absolutely love Carol's mom when she tells her, "So go be an astronaut!"  Nobody held Carol back but Carol, yet she was always too busy blaming and resenting others to take a good look at herself.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 12/2/2020 at 1:02 PM, doodlebug said:

It's one of the more common emergency general surgical procedures; a place like County would probably do half dozen or so a week.

That's actually pretty funny I always thought it was one of those on tv but not in real life, because even before we it would happen on tv all the time, but I never knew anyone who had an appendectomy.

On 12/2/2020 at 12:05 PM, Dr.OO7 said:

I really hated how determined the show was to keep their doctors and nurses dirt poor.

I hate the Hospital Paradiso trope--making someone seem like a sellout or less of a doctor/lawyer/teacher, etc because they--GASP!--want a job with better pay and better hours. Shane on them for wanting to take it easy after years of grunt work for little pay! Shame on them for having a spouse/family they want to provide for and spend time with!

Even within the hospital they did that. When Carter was living with Weaver she was Acting ER chief and must have been making good money. But around the same time anytime you see Romano's house it is a freakin mansion that looks closer to Stately Carter Manor.

On season 8 now. About half way through and like it more than 7. Gallant is way more interesting than Malucci. Plus no Abby's mom. The thing with Luka and the waitress is stupid but Weaver dating the firefighter is pretty good. Plus the rainstorm episode where they meet is a great episode.

I just watched the episode where Benton left it was good and made sense although I am not sure why Peter was such a dick to Roger. It would have been better if Jackie was pushing harder to fight for custody. Although they did a good job of making Jackie look super depressed. She looked terrible compared to Newsradio Khandi Alexander.

[Growsonwalls]

The show often had ER medical workers doing things that would never be given to an ER worker. For instance Anspaugh's sick son -- in real life Anspaugh definitely would have had a home health aide to help his son through the final months. It wouldn't have been Jeannie moonlighting in her off hours as his son's home health aide. I liked the storyline but it wasn't very realistic. 

Edited December 3, 2020 by Growsonwalls

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

That's actually pretty funny I always thought it was one of those on tv but not in real life, because even before we it would happen on tv all the time, but I never knew anyone who had an appendectomy.

Even within the hospital they did that. When Carter was living with Weaver she was Acting ER chief and must have been making good money. But around the same time anytime you see Romano's house it is a freakin mansion that looks closer to Stately Carter Manor.

On season 8 now. About half way through and like it more than 7. Gallant is way more interesting than Malucci. Plus no Abby's mom. The thing with Luka and the waitress is stupid but Weaver dating the firefighter is pretty good. Plus the rainstorm episode where they meet is a great episode.

I just watched the episode where Benton left it was good and made sense although I am not sure why Peter was such a dick to Roger. It would have been better if Jackie was pushing harder to fight for custody. Although they did a good job of making Jackie look super depressed. She looked terrible compared to Newsradio Khandi Alexander.

We saw Kerry's house several times and it was quite lovely. It looked to be a townhouse in an upscale urban neighborhood.  It certainly would've been an expensive purchase.  Romano's house was above and beyond, although I do know some docs who have places like that,

Not all doctors have big houses, especially those of us who aren't married and don't have kids.

Roger seemed to be pretty civil to Peter and Reese certainly loved him.  I agree, Benton treated him poorly considering how much he needed help with Reese and how much better it was for Reese not to lose his stepfather after losing his mother.

[CrazyInAlabama]

I wondered who Reese's biological father was?   Not Benton, certainly not Roger, so who?   

I think from the behind the scenes drama with the person who played Carla, they intended to write her out for a long time, so they started writing her the way they did to make her unpopular.    

I wish they had written a better relationship for Cleo, and Benton.    The show didn't even try to make the viewers like her.    She was always so serious, and uninvolved in everything.    

 

[readster]

20 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I wondered who Reese's biological father was?   Not Benton, certainly not Roger, so who?   

I think from the behind the scenes drama with the person who played Carla, they intended to write her out for a long time, so they started writing her the way they did to make her unpopular.    

I wish they had written a better relationship for Cleo, and Benton.    The show didn't even try to make the viewers like her.    She was always so serious, and uninvolved in everything.    

 

As they say: "Ally McBeal didn't happen fast enough for her." Then they basically wrote her off too. 

[PepSinger]

I've always been lukewarm on Carol/Doug, but the end of "Make a Wish" makes me swoon.

I recently watched the eps where Ross misses a diagnosis; Benton tells the patient the truth; everyone hates Benton. I wonder how that scenario would've played in real life? Personally, I think Benton had no business telling the father. It's not just Doug that's at risk; it's the entire hospital. At least Benton was humbled when he made a mistake and missed an appendicitis. 

[debraran]

4 hours ago, PepSinger said:

I've always been lukewarm on Carol/Doug, but the end of "Make a Wish" makes me swoon.

I recently watched the eps where Ross misses a diagnosis; Benton tells the patient the truth; everyone hates Benton. I wonder how that scenario would've played in real life? Personally, I think Benton had no business telling the father. It's not just Doug that's at risk; it's the entire hospital. At least Benton was humbled when he made a mistake and missed an appendicitis. 

I don't know the legalities but when I worked at a large teaching hospital, you did hear the "If they don't have to know" conversations more than once. I was clerical but you were usually invisible so heard a lot.  Before computers and paper charts, things disappeared but I did see both sides. I  felt for Doug but understood Peter. Sooner or later, all doctors have something happen and that holier than thou feeling ebbs a bit.

I watched Carla's death and Peter with Reese yesterday. He stole the show but I found it odd they were discussing him wanting a little snuggle time with Peter and how to deal with it. His mom just died, he's trying to process it and Carla is saying Reese should be put back in his bed? Just seemed a bit cold. There's time to segue him back.  I loved as many did when Romano sent Peter home and signed to Reese. His character didn't run out of steam, he had so much growth to show. He could stay a hard ass but there were so many early moments for showing growth. He had a heart with a few patients, allowing operations or caring beyond the ego end of it. I was reminded of the disabled child left at the hospital and Romano told Lizzie there isn't a reason for it, you choose to be a parent, you stick with it. (boo hoo preface) Lizzie had been a witch with Mark earlier and the baby, yelling and complaining and Mark was so patient. She seemed to really regret having Ella and I wondered if that was a pause, "sometimes it is hard but you figure it out" type of thing.

[Birdie]

I think part of Benton wanting to out Doug for missing the tumor in the boy’s leg and telling the grandfather was in part due to his reluctance (at first) to pursue the allegations he had against Vucelich manipulating data to make his study look better. He saw a “softer” opportunity to do something he perceived as “noble” and good; one that wouldn’t potentially  obliterate his career. I think Mark (?) actually called him on it in that respect - something like, “it’s easy when it’s not your butt on the line!” or similar.

I recently watched an episode where Benton’s privileges have been revoked by Romano, so he’s out looking for a job but finding it difficult. A doctor he interviewed with tells him he will probably have trouble finding work locally, implying Romano has been trashing his reputation throughout Chicago’s medical system. 
 

is this legal? Can previous employers trash talk a previous employee to potential employers? Can they only do it when they’re contacted regarding the job applicant? But this ep made it seem Romano might have been talking to people unsolicited... 

[Quof]

They can say whatever they want as long as it's true.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dr.OO7]

9 hours ago, PepSinger said:

, but the end of "Make a Wish" makes me swoon.

Carol making the "stunning" announcement that she and Doug were back together and everyone's " Yeah, whatever, we already knew" reaction is priceless. As is Doug's "I told you so" laughing.

[CrazyInAlabama]

I don't think Romano or anyone else had to actually come out and say Benton shouldn't be hired.    They could just say they wouldn't hire him back, or something non-committal, and the hiring official would get the idea.  

[doodlebug]

6 hours ago, Quof said:

They can say whatever they want as long as it's true.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yep. the medical community in each area is pretty tightly knit and most docs at one hospital know docs at other hospitals around town.  You've either worked with them, trained with them, referred patients or gotten referrals from them.  Or they are friends of other docs you know.  And all Romano would have to do is tell them that he didn't think they should hire Peter.  No reason, no explanation; just those words would be enough to warn them away.

Peter had been at County a long time and was seemingly doing well there and had a good reputation.  When he up and suddenly left but was still seeking to stay in Chicago, it was a red flag to other hospitals that something went down at County.  

Most job references these days are only a verification of employment, dates and duties.  This is the case for most industries.  So, when Peter went job-hunting, he would've given County as a reference but probably would've used Lizzie or maybe Kerry or Carter as the personal references.  Anyone looking at that would want to talk to his boss, behind the scenes, because the fact that he was looking for a job in the same town but wasn't using his former boss as a reference would be a big warning signal.

I, myself, have also given info to colleagues looking to hire someone that I knew, both good and bad.  I had practiced at a hospital where one of the physicians had multiple sexual affairs with various nurses, often several at the same time.  He was also married.  On more than one occasion, his wife came to the hospital and busted into the call room to catch him with his current sidepiece.  There were shouting matches, etc involved.  Since all of these people were adults and no criminal activity had taken place, the hospital couldn't do much about it except counsel him to be more discreet.  He eventually decided to relocate his practice, at least in part because one of his exes was mentally unwell and was not quiet about his behavior in the relationship.  I heard that he would be sharing call with a doctor who I didn't know but who was a friend of a friend from med school.  I called him and told him about the other doc's shenanigans.  He was able to back out of the call arrangement and avoid a huge headache.,

[readster]

1 hour ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I don't think Romano or anyone else had to actually come out and say Benton shouldn't be hired.    They could just say they wouldn't hire him back, or something non-committal, and the hiring official would get the idea.  

Yep, or they say: "I can't really discuss the person's performance." I had that happened to me, so I stopped putting the place on my applications. AMAZING how fast I got return calls. 

[Danny Franks]

14 hours ago, PepSinger said:

I've always been lukewarm on Carol/Doug, but the end of "Make a Wish" makes me swoon.

I recently watched the eps where Ross misses a diagnosis; Benton tells the patient the truth; everyone hates Benton. I wonder how that scenario would've played in real life? Personally, I think Benton had no business telling the father. It's not just Doug that's at risk; it's the entire hospital. At least Benton was humbled when he made a mistake and missed an appendicitis. 

Benton frequently does something like this. He's sore because he fucked up so he takes the opportunity to expose someone else's error or act in a generally superior fashion.

I just watched the episode where he almost kills a baby because he thinks he knows enough to deal with a problem that arises during surgery, despite Abbie Keaton telling him to do nothing but close the patient. The next episode he goes on some futile crusade to keep a brain-dead gangbanger alive and refuses to listen to anyone who points out that he can't save the kid.

I never really see him as a protagonist in the show, always more like an antagonist - for Carter certainly, but for Doug and Mark as well at different times. There's just nothing about him I find sympathetic or relatable until Reece comes along.

5 hours ago, Dr.OO7 said:

Carol making the "stunning" announcement that she and Doug were back together and everyone's " Yeah, whatever, we already knew" reaction is priceless. As is Doug's "I told you so" laughing.

That's the sort of thing that did make Carol likeable at times. She was self-important and self-righteous but was the butt of the joke often enough that it wasn't completely intolerable.

I think the best Carol is in season 2, when she's with Shep and actually seems happy and optimistic. With Doug, even when things were going well she too often seemed like a band-aid for his manly hurts.

[readster]

50 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

Benton frequently does something like this. He's sore because he fucked up so he takes the opportunity to expose someone else's error or act in a generally superior fashion.

I just watched the episode where he almost kills a baby because he thinks he knows enough to deal with a problem that arises during surgery, despite Abbie Keaton telling him to do nothing but close the patient. The next episode he goes on some futile crusade to keep a brain-dead gangbanger alive and refuses to listen to anyone who points out that he can't save the kid.

I never really see him as a protagonist in the show, always more like an antagonist - for Carter certainly, but for Doug and Mark as well at different times. There's just nothing about him I find sympathetic or relatable until Reece comes along.

Yep, he did it to Doug, he did it to Luka and of course he did it to Ghant too. At least when his nephew died and Muluchi screwed up thinking he was just another gang banger. That at least made sense, of course sadly his nephew got mixed up with a girl who was in a gang and pretty much would be gunning for anyone associated with the gang even if they weren't "part of" the gang. 

[Dr.OO7]

9 hours ago, doodlebug said:

No reason, no explanation; just those words would be enough to warn them away.

That reminds me of when I heard that the graduate school professor who had sexually harassed me (my second #MeToo story) had been "relieved of his position". I instantly knew without having been told that he'd done the same thing to some other girl.

No potential employer likes to hear those words.

It just sucks in Benton's case, because he DIDN'T do anything wrong. I REALLY hated Romano during that storyline.

[readster]

10 hours ago, Dr.OO7 said:

That reminds me of when I heard that the graduate school professor who had sexually harassed me (my second #MeToo story) had been "relieved of his position". I instantly knew without having been told that he'd done the same thing to some other girl.

No potential employer likes to hear those words.

It just sucks in Benton's case, because he DIDN'T do anything wrong. I REALLY hated Romano during that storyline.

The problem was Romano, he was a grand example of a someone in charge that did some serious crap to his employees. There were people above him and they just let him keep on doing it. I mean until the helicopter chopping off his arm, no one did SHIT to the crap he pulled off at times. He was a fan favorite for a long time, he showed many times of heart with Lucy and even how much he loved his dog, even though NO ONE wanted to be associated with him outside of the job and even then it was ONLY if his expertise was NEEDED. After he lost his arm and went into: "I fucking hate everyone no matter what!" That's when everyone was like: "You know, now that you are no longer a GRAND surgeon, you are really crap, so get out!" I mean Kerri took over his job, Anspaugh tried to reason with him his life wasn't over, but once Romano started screwing up because he hated everything to the point where everyone from Sam to Lucius were smacking him with: "You can't do this crap anymore and we are tired of it!" It was the cartoon stupidity of him being killed off by the flaming falling helicopter that was just stupid way to finish him off. Plus, the fact he died catching Morris smoking pot just outside the ER. I mean the fact that NO ONE saw Romano go outside to where the helicopter landed or the fact that Morris was just sitting there going: "Um... he told me to wait, huh the place is on fire?" Shows how the writing on the show not only went down the drain, but the writers were basically getting rid of characters they "couldn't write anymore" and trying to prompt up characters that audiences really didn't care about. 

[doodlebug]

3 minutes ago, readster said:

The problem was Romano, he was a grand example of a someone in charge that did some serious crap to his employees. There were people above him and they just let him keep on doing it. I mean until the helicopter chopping off his arm, no one did SHIT to the crap he pulled off at times. He was a fan favorite for a long time, he showed many times of heart with Lucy and even how much he loved his dog, even though NO ONE wanted to be associated with him outside of the job and even then it was ONLY if his expertise was NEEDED. After he lost his arm and went into: "I fucking hate everyone no matter what!" That's when everyone was like: "You know, now that you are no longer a GRAND surgeon, you are really crap, so get out!" I mean Kerri took over his job, Anspaugh tried to reason with him his life wasn't over, but once Romano started screwing up because he hated everything to the point where everyone from Sam to Lucius were smacking him with: "You can't do this crap anymore and we are tired of it!" It was the cartoon stupidity of him being killed off by the flaming falling helicopter that was just stupid way to finish him off. Plus, the fact he died catching Morris smoking pot just outside the ER. I mean the fact that NO ONE saw Romano go outside to where the helicopter landed or the fact that Morris was just sitting there going: "Um... he told me to wait, huh the place is on fire?" Shows how the writing on the show not only went down the drain, but the writers were basically getting rid of characters they "couldn't write anymore" and trying to prompt up characters that audiences really didn't care about. 

And, speaking of sexual harassment, I believe Maggie Doyle would like to say a word about Romano. Not to mention his questionable treatment of Elizabeth after she spurned his advances.  Guys like Romano used to thrive in medicine because they were good at their job in the narrow sense (talented surgeons), they got away with major mistreatment of their colleagues and coworkers.  Nowadays, people are more aware and more likely to speak up sooner.

[readster]

3 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

And, speaking of sexual harassment, I believe Maggie Doyle would like to say a word about Romano. Not to mention his questionable treatment of Elizabeth after she spurned his advances.  Guys like Romano used to thrive in medicine because they were good at their job in the narrow sense (talented surgeons), they got away with major mistreatment of their colleagues and coworkers.  Nowadays, people are more aware and more likely to speak up sooner.

Right, the stuff Romano did as opposed to society now. He would have been kicked to the curb or been isolated to have almost rare contact with any women if he had this documented history. Kind of like in education, back in the day when ER was on, a teacher would pat a kid on the back for doing a good job or make a comment about an inapproiate outfit and it was either a smile because they did a good job or that they realized they couldn't really express their thought process. Now, you do anything like that, you are caught in a lawsuit or a parent/guardian doing everything to get the person fired. 

[Dr.OO7]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

Not to mention his questionable treatment of Elizabeth after she spurned his advances.

These creeps have a disturbing ability to skirt the line between legal and illegal. I could never complain about my professor because as uncomfortable as he made me feel, he never explicitly demanded "Sleep with me, or you're going to fail this class." (Adding insult to injury, he was the head of the department--the very person I would have made a complaint to). Right until the very end, when he refused to write me a recommendation letter for medical school. Even though it was technically his choice, I knew full well that it was out of spite for me rebuffing him.

 

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

Guys like Romano used to thrive in medicine because they were good at their job in the narrow sense (talented surgeons), they got away with major mistreatment of their colleagues and coworkers.  Nowadays, people are more aware and more likely to speak up sooner.

Sadly, I think that applies to EVERY profession.

One of the most stunning things about the #MeToo era was that medicine was almost an entirely separate movement.

Not that I should have been surprised, as I put up with a lot of crap in medical school as well--a surgical resident "accidentally" grabbing my ass during rounds, a misogynistic OB/GYN resident who hated every female student and fellow resident (which begs the question of why the hell he was going into a specialty that caters solely to women), etc.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Dr.OO7

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, Dr.OO7 said:

These creeps have a disturbing ability to skirt the line between legal and illegal. I could never complain about my professor because as uncomfortable as he made me feel, he never explicitly demanded "Sleep with me, or you're going to fail this class." (Adding insult to injury, he was the head of the department--the very person I would have made a complaint to). Right until the very end, when he refused to write me a recommendation letter for medical school. Even though it was technically his choice, I knew full well that it was out of spite for me rebuffing him.

 

One of the most stunning things about the #MeToo era was that medicine was almost an entirely separate movement.

Not that I should have been surprised, as I put up with a lot of crap in medical school as well--a surgical resident "accidentally" grabbing my ass during rounds, a misogynistic OB/GYN resident who hated every female student and fellow resident (which begs the question of why the hell he was going into a specialty that caters solely to women), etc.

I attended med school and did a residence in the late 70's through the mid 80's.  Women were just starting to enter med school in larger numbers.  My med school had about 200 members in each class and there was a big to-do over the fact that 37 of those members were female in my class.  Largest number ever, still less than 20%.  Nowadays, half or more of all medical students are female.  I recall a pathology lecture given to the entire class where the pathologist used slides of women taken from porno mags and compared the female genitalia to cardiac structures and behaved as though this was hilariously funny.  These were not photos from Playboy, but from the far more crude publications.  After the lecture, about 10 of us, including 2 guys, went up to the prof and told him we found the lecture to be highly inappropriate and disturbing.  He laughed and told us he'd been giving that lecture for years and it was the most popular lecture of the year and we obviously had no sense of humor.  Oh, and he had cancer and it wasn't nice to say bad things to him.  So, we made an appointment with the dean and went to his office and presented our case.  He told us the lecture was a time honored tradition that this prof had been giving for years, that we should've known about it in advance (I'd heard rumors but didn't really think it was possible), and that we needed to get thicker skins and a better sense of humor.  Oh, and Dr B had cancer and we should think about that before complaining about him.  And that was that.  BTW, he really did have cancer and died a year or two later, but it was and is irrelevant, IMO.

I could tell dozens of individual stories about my experiences as a woman medical student and resident, and even as an attending.  I don't know any female doc my age who couldn't..  Sexual harassment was simply baked into the process.  When one of my fellow OB residents got pregnant, one of our attendings went to the program director demanding she be fired immediately for 'violating her contract'.  My program director, as honorable and fair as anyone I've ever known, told him there was no clause in the contract preventing a resident from having a baby and that, since at least half of the male residents already had kids; he was most certainly not firing any of them, either.  And this was a residency in OB/GYN, no less..  I will say that the vast majority of men I have worked with in the medical field have been honest and decent and kind people who treated me and everyone else with respect.

ETA: After the med school lecture, there was a lot of discussion amongst us medical students about it.  I was in a study group with 4-5 other people, all guys.  One of them joked about the women who had complained since it was only 10 people out of a lecture hall with 200+ people, so majority rules and we should just shut up.  I then spoke up and told him how I felt during that lecture, how it was demeaning and humiliating to sit there and I was essentially frozen in my seat or else I would've left.  One of the other guys spoke up and thanked me for saying it.  That he had personally laughed and thought it was all in good fun; but, now he saw how I felt about it, he understood and he was sorry that I'd  had that experience and he had changed his mind.  Another guy, who was quiet during the discussion, mainly because the mouthy porn lover was his best friend in med school, took me aside and apologized and also thanked me for speaking up and that he would try to remember what I'd said in the future.  He later became an OB/GYN himself and was a tremendous advocate for women and children in his community.  He unfortunately died way too young, but there is a women's health clinic serving the indigent that bears his name.  People can and do change.

Edited December 5, 2020 by doodlebug

[debraran]

46 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

I attended med school and did a residence in the late 70's through the mid 80's.  Women were just starting to enter med school in larger numbers.  My med school had about 200 members in each class and there was a big to-do over the fact that 37 of those members were female in my class.  Largest number ever, still less than 20%.  Nowadays, half or more of all medical students are female.  I recall a pathology lecture given to the entire class where the pathologist used slides of women taken from porno mags and compared the female genitalia to cardiac structures and behaved as though this was hilariously funny.  These were not photos from Playboy, but from the far more crude publications.  After the lecture, about 10 of us, including 2 guys, went up to the prof and told him we found the lecture to be highly inappropriate and disturbing.  He laughed and told us he'd been giving that lecture for years and it was the most popular lecture of the year and we obviously had no sense of humor.  Oh, and he had cancer and it wasn't nice to say bad things to him.  So, we made an appointment with the dean and went to his office and presented our case.  He told us the lecture was a time honored tradition that this prof had been giving for years, that we should've known about it in advance (I'd heard rumors but didn't really think it was possible), and that we needed to get thicker skins and a better sense of humor.  Oh, and Dr B had cancer and we should think about that before complaining about him.  And that was that.  BTW, he really did have cancer and died a year or two later, but it was and is irrelevant, IMO.

I could tell dozens of individual stories about my experiences as a woman medical student and resident, and even as an attending.  I don't know any female doc my age who couldn't..  Sexual harassment was simply baked into the process.  When one of my fellow OB residents got pregnant, one of our attendings went to the program director demanding she be fired immediately for 'violating her contract'.  My program director, as honorable and fair as anyone I've ever known, told him there was no clause in the contract preventing a resident from having a baby and that, since at least half of the male residents already had kids; he was most certainly not firing any of them, either.  And this was a residency in OB/GYN, no less..  I will say that the vast majority of men I have worked with in the medical field have been honest and decent and kind people who treated me and everyone else with respect.

ETA: After the med school lecture, there was a lot of discussion amongst us medical students about it.  I was in a study group with 4-5 other people, all guys.  One of them joked about the women who had complained since it was only 10 people out of a lecture hall with 200+ people, so majority rules and we should just shut up.  I then spoke up and told him how I felt during that lecture, how it was demeaning and humiliating to sit there and I was essentially frozen in my seat or else I would've left.  One of the other guys spoke up and thanked me for saying it.  That he had personally laughed and thought it was all in good fun; but, now he saw how I felt about it, he understood and he was sorry that I'd  had that experience and he had changed his mind.  Another guy, who was quiet during the discussion, mainly because the mouthy porn lover was his best friend in med school, took me aside and apologized and also thanked me for speaking up and that he would try to remember what I'd said in the future.  He later became an OB/GYN himself and was a tremendous advocate for women and children in his community.  He unfortunately died way too young, but there is a women's health clinic serving the indigent that bears his name.  People can and do change.

I'm glad you spoke up, it must have been quite an experience back then but probably added to your being a great doctor. ; )

My doctor now was one of first women at Yale and in med school around that time. The discrimination was awful. My doctor before he died was her mentor, he gave her so much more responsibility than the other residents and interns and she got a beeper before other classmates. He was a great OB and many loved him but also black and knew discrimination himself. Her eulogy at his funeral brought me to tears. There are not enough like him even now.  She also had a baby then and it was looked down upon.

I had so many "me too" moments from 16 years old on and most went no where. Thankfully it is getting better but I know a lot is still for show.

I feel Romano was a product of his time but a lot was also hot air. Lizzie had her moments with him but cared for him and her burning the hospitals card at the end was to all their good moments. I think if he was better looking they would have had them date or be closer and I think she would have helped him change.  They made him awful and I wonder listening to "Haleh's" interview who was writing that crap and who did he piss off! He showed heart many times early on and seeing compilations that fans did years ago reminded me of them. Such a missed opportunity to make him so much more interesting.

Edited December 5, 2020 by debraran

[readster]

35 minutes ago, debraran said:

I feel Romano was a product of his time but a lot was also hot air. Lizzie had her moments with him but cared for him and her burning the hospitals card at the end was to all their good moments. I think if he was better looking they would have had them date or be closer and I think she would have helped him change.  They made him awful and I wonder listening to "Haleh's" interview who was writing that crap and who did he piss off! He showed heart many times early on and seeing compilations that fans did years ago reminded me of them. Such a missed opportunity to make him so much more interesting.

Right and thats why he had a fan based, after they started the "lost of his arm" situation, not only did the character go down hill it went majorly, majorly into: "Anyone else would have killed him by now." I mean Anspaugh demoted him big time, all the new staff members basically were smacking him or yelling at how much of a troll he was. They didn't care about "who he used to be" only what he was doing now. Granted, it was also due to the fact he lost his status both as a doctor and lost his abilities as skilled surgeon. However, it got down to: "Holy crap, if he would have been pulling this during your glory days you would have lost your license." Another thing was post Romono and Peter. The surgical department just got... odd. I loved Lucius, but all the other morons including the crap that Leela put up with when she got up there was just odd. You have the "not Romono" guy who everyone said he was this "great surgeon" was really just a small man personality wise and acted like a high schooler. Yes, he saved Leela's life after she got trampled on, but he was a bad teacher, he called people stupid and then never showed them how to be better. Then he was acting like he was God's gift to women when Sara Gilbert's character came on the show. When honestly, she wore the pants in that relationship and he was just happy he was finally getting laid. It was just dumb. 

[debraran]

Nice short talk where George tells about starting ER.

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by debraran

[Heathen]

On 12/5/2020 at 1:27 PM, readster said:

Right and thats why he had a fan based, after they started the "lost of his arm" situation, not only did the character go down hill it went majorly, majorly into: "Anyone else would have killed him by now." I mean Anspaugh demoted him big time, all the new staff members basically were smacking him or yelling at how much of a troll he was. They didn't care about "who he used to be" only what he was doing now. Granted, it was also due to the fact he lost his status both as a doctor and lost his abilities as skilled surgeon. However, it got down to: "Holy crap, if he would have been pulling this during your glory days you would have lost your license." Another thing was post Romono and Peter. The surgical department just got... odd. I loved Lucius, but all the other morons including the crap that Leela put up with when she got up there was just odd. You have the "not Romono" guy who everyone said he was this "great surgeon" was really just a small man personality wise and acted like a high schooler. Yes, he saved Leela's life after she got trampled on, but he was a bad teacher, he called people stupid and then never showed them how to be better. Then he was acting like he was God's gift to women when Sara Gilbert's character came on the show. When honestly, she wore the pants in that relationship and he was just happy he was finally getting laid. It was just dumb. 

Neela, not Leela. 

Dusty Crenshaw is the surgeon you're referring to. I don't remember anyone saying he was a great surgeon. He was just kind of there. 

[debraran]

I just watched the one with Ella getting Ecstasy and the ER team trying to save her. I thought it was well done, Weaver having to help Mark realize he was too close to treat, Elizabeth was very "real" in her reaction and her anguish and tears seemed just right mixed with having stomach flu also. Rachel's lame attempt to apologize, Lizzie's refusal and Mark's mixed feelings, all the ER I will miss soon. Even Romano planning on getting them dinner so they didn't have to leave Ella's room. Watching Mark hold Elizabeth and them crying over the statistics of the next 24 hours was heartbreaking as the last scene. Mixed in was a drawn out melodrama with Carter and his mom and a kid with cancer that seemed like filler. I don't remember the fallout with Ella (if they show it) so watching the next couple of days will be "newer" than most. Getting to the point when I miss it more than like it, but still hanging in there.

Edited December 10, 2020 by debraran

[Kel Varnsen]

2 hours ago, debraran said:

Mixed in was a drawn out melodrama with Carter and his mom and a kid with cancer that seemed like filler. 

We just finished season 8 last night. The stuff with Carter, his mom and the kid was annoying and totally seemed like filler. Especially since after the part where she comes back for his chemo it is never mentioned again, nor is Carter's parents' divorce. Although the scene with the mom where Carter says that he and his dying brother knew the mom was lying when she told the brother everything would be ok was pretty good.

I also watched the episode with the small pox outbreak in the ER. Kind of weird watching it in the midst of a global pandemic. All the stuff about contact tracing and people freaking out seemed very real. Especially the part about Carter's mask making his glasses fog up since that happens to me every day. Although it was weird that no one ever washed their hands.

[readster]

31 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

We just finished season 8 last night. The stuff with Carter, his mom and the kid was annoying and totally seemed like filler. Especially since after the part where she comes back for his chemo it is never mentioned again, nor is Carter's parents' divorce. Although the scene with the mom where Carter says that he and his dying brother knew the mom was lying when she told the brother everything would be ok was pretty good.

I also watched the episode with the small pox outbreak in the ER. Kind of weird watching it in the midst of a global pandemic. All the stuff about contact tracing and people freaking out seemed very real. Especially the part about Carter's mask making his glasses fog up since that happens to me every day. Although it was weird that no one ever washed their hands.

How true, it seems more realistic due to current situations with the pandemic. Though, I complete agree on the hands, especially when Jerry got hit over the head after he caused a mini hygene breakout at the hospital back in the day that lead to Mark's beat up in the bathroom. Something that has been said about everything from pox, to polio to now COVID. WASH YOUR HANDS!

[Bastet]

I'm the opposite; I remember the stuff with Carter and his mom clearly, but only vaguely recall the Ella storyline.  What I do distinctly remember from that is loving that Elizabeth was made up to actually look like someone with the flu, not the usual glamorized TV version of illness; she looked like shit, and I really appreciated that.

[CrazyInAlabama]

Yes, I was surprised that Elizabeth looked like she really had the flu, and was terrified about her baby.   

What I remember about the Ella poisoning with Rachel's drugs, is Mark actually asked Elizabeth for his daughter to visit the baby.  They didn't know if Ella would have brain damage, or even live, and Rachel and Mark wanted Elizabeth to let Rachel near her?     Then no one at County reports the drugs to the police?     I really hated the way Rachel was written, and I really had to laugh at the last episode where Rachel was going to go to medical school at the school associated with County.   There is no way the slacker that Mark never said no to made it to medical school, or even close to qualifying.  

Edited December 10, 2020 by CrazyInAlabama

[readster]

1 hour ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

Yes, I was surprised that Elizabeth looked like she really had the flu, and was terrified about her baby.   

What I remember about the Ella poisoning with Rachel's drugs, is Mark actually asked Elizabeth for his daughter to visit the baby.  They didn't know if Ella would have brain damage, or even live, and Rachel and Mark wanted Elizabeth to let Rachel near her?     Then no one at County reports the drugs to the police?     I really hated the way Rachel was written, and I really had to laugh at the last episode where Rachel was going to go to medical school at the school associated with County.   There is no way the slacker that Mark never said no to made it to medical school, or even close to qualifying.  

See I could understand where Rachel was going after the divorce and really what had happened with her parents. However, it went way, way, way overboard to Rachel: "I need to smoke and do drugs because you know, my parents have been divorced for 8 years now." 

[ShortyMac]

3 hours ago, Bastet said:

I'm the opposite; I remember the stuff with Carter and his mom clearly, but only vaguely recall the Ella storyline.  What I do distinctly remember from that is loving that Elizabeth was made up to actually look like someone with the flu, not the usual glamorized TV version of illness; she looked like shit, and I really appreciated that.

She looked positively wretched; we've all been there. Kudos to the make up department, truly.

45 minutes ago, readster said:

See I could understand where Rachel was going after the divorce and really what had happened with her parents. However, it went way, way, way overboard to Rachel: "I need to smoke and do drugs because you know, my parents have been divorced for 8 years now." 

Rachel acted out for attention, as neither of her parents had time for her due to their demanding jobs. They both moved on and remarried, I know Jen married Craig, the guy she left Mark for, I forget if she ended up having more kids. Jen did the day-to-day parenting while she was growing up; then, Jen shipped her off with Mark because she couldn't handle her. She was in the way; I think they both saw her as an inconvenience. Mark starts a whole new family that Rachel isn't part of, as she's in St. Louis. Then, she doesn't get a chance to know him because he dies of cancer. I did feel for her to an extent; like Mark told her, she did get a raw deal. 

[Kel Varnsen]

3 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

 I really had to laugh at the last episode where Rachel was going to go to medical school at the school associated with County.   There is no way the slacker that Mark never said no to made it to medical school, or even close to qualifying.  

I haven't seen the series finale since it aired but after watching season 8 I can kind of maybe buy it. Rachel was 15 in On the Beach which means she has 2 more years in high school and then a full undergrad degree. Loads of time to turn her life around. Plus the double whammy of almost killing your baby sister and then your dad dying suddenly would probably either send someone over the edge or get them to clean their life up.

Plus this is a world where Doug Ross made it through med school, so Rachel just getting in doesn't seem that difficult.

[Heathen]

6 hours ago, ShortyMac said:

She looked positively wretched; we've all been there. Kudos to the make up department, truly.

Rachel acted out for attention, as neither of her parents had time for her due to their demanding jobs. They both moved on and remarried, I know Jen married Craig, the guy she left Mark for, I forget if she ended up having more kids. Jen did the day-to-day parenting while she was growing up; then, Jen shipped her off with Mark because she couldn't handle her. She was in the way; I think they both saw her as an inconvenience. Mark starts a whole new family that Rachel isn't part of, as she's in St. Louis. Then, she doesn't get a chance to know him because he dies of cancer. I did feel for her to an extent; like Mark told her, she did get a raw deal. 

Having been there, it's hard enough to be a teenager, then add in your parents moving on, you feeling left out, and having a much younger sibling whom you feel is the favored one. Then add in guilt over an accident that almost killed said younger sibling, plus grief over your dad's early death. Hell, I'd act out too. 

Freshman year of high school leaves plenty of time to turn one's life around. Plus, once you actually make it to college, nobody really cares how you did in high school. My only skepticism is Rachel getting into Duke, but maybe she transferred after a year or two of college. It happens. 

Edited December 11, 2020 by Heathen

[debraran]

I watched the second half of Ella and she of course gets better but yes, I agree, they did Elizabeth's hair and makeup perfectly for the flu/never slept look. I hate in the more soap opera medical shows, no one looks bad no matter what they are going through.

I felt for Mark, I remembered as I watched it how his tumor slowly appeared  to him and seeing him hit his head on the paper towel dispenser was "real" and touching because he knew before the test looking at his face. No over the top melodrama, but that slow realization the hopeful earlier stats weren't going in his favor. I felt for Rachel but Lizzie was right, you don't just lie and do things without repercussions and she was too raw and tired to talk to her calmly. Rachel's young but her judgement in going in to to see Ella probably wasn't the best idea.

Carter's story still seemed "off" but I did like how he took his mom back and she seemed less plastic crying in his arms over their shared grief of his brother.

I know I hate Abby but that abusive boyfriend story was real to a degree but dumb. Abby isn't stupid, she lets him in with her food and hangs up the phone instead of asking his girlfriend to call for help. He leaves and she opens the door again? She knew what he was like. Chains never hold a door and NEVER on TV. She can't ask who it is? I know it was written that way to have Kovac do the purging scene of hitting him like we wanted too but just felt like it made Abby too naive.

On a separate note, I found this trivia on ER, thought I heard it all but a few things that I hadn't known. ; )

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108757/trivia

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by debraran

[readster]

2 hours ago, debraran said:

 

I know I hate Abby but that abusive boyfriend story was real to a degree but dumb. Abby isn't stupid, she lets him in with her food and hangs up the phone instead of asking his girlfriend to call for help. He leaves and she opens the door again? She knew what he was like. Chains never hold a door and NEVER on TV. She can't ask who it is? I know it was written that way to have Kovac do the purging scene of hitting him like we wanted too but just felt like it made Abby too naive.

 

I still find that such crap, not only how Abby just opens it, but the aftermath! I mean his friends who were lawyers because you know he was a "law student" like Mr. Stab Lucy and Carter were. Got a slap on the wrist, especially when his wife apparently never came back after Abby got her to leave. The lawyer just turns to Abby going: "Yes, and then Ryan got beat up a few hours later, but you don't know anything do you?" What an asshole! Of course, ER really never painted lawyers in a good light from the ones suing Mark for the death of the one brother to Janice from Friends. I mean, you get what their jobs were, but seriously, you wanted them to lose or it was: "Well, they are a fellow law student and sure they got someone killed or have a history of abuse and really did break into your apartment, but hey they are fellow law students, so the judges don't care." BS.

[Kel Varnsen]

10 hours ago, Heathen said:

Freshman year of high school leaves plenty of time to turn one's life around. Plus, once you actually make it to college, nobody really cares how you did in high school. My only skepticism is Rachel getting into Duke, but maybe she transferred after a year or two of college. It happens. 

Plus keep in mind that throughout the series there was never any information given about what kind of grades Rachel got. And I don't think it is realistic to assume that only kids who get bad grades act out and do drugs.

2 hours ago, debraran said:

Abby isn't stupid, she lets him in with her food and hangs up the phone instead of asking his girlfriend to call for help. He leaves and she opens the door again? She knew what he was like. Chains never hold a door and NEVER on TV. She can't ask who it is? I know it was written that way to have Kovac do the purging scene of hitting him like we wanted too but just felt like it made Abby too naive.

They followed up on that later in the season. Abby says that she had been drinking that night and probably wouldn't have opened the door had she been sober. So that kind of makes sense.

[RedbirdNelly]

I was never a Rachel fan, but it wasn't unbelievable to me she would get her act together. It's entirely possible. The fact she had issues does not preclude her from being smart. Just about everyone knows someone who goes through a rough patch but turns things around (along with many who do not, sadly). 

[readster]

3 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

I was never a Rachel fan, but it wasn't unbelievable to me she would get her act together. It's entirely possible. The fact she had issues does not preclude her from being smart. Just about everyone knows someone who goes through a rough patch but turns things around (along with many who do not, sadly). 

Right and never once did we hear that Rachel was: doing back in school, cutting class ect. Just because you are smart doesn't mean teens still don't smoke dope or sneak a cigarette or get high because of "issues". I knew a guy in high school, honor roll, athlete, still got high on occasion. He's a marketing director now and if he even sees his kids trying to joke about sipping a beer, he nails them. Basically: "I was young and stupid, but I grew up, don't make my same mistakes." 

[Bastet]

Rachel was the white child of a white lawyer and a white doctor and we never heard she sucked as a student; she'd have to actively try to permanently blow up that privilege, so if she marginally applied herself she could progress through the educational ranks in high school and secure admission to a good university.

It was quite refreshing that the painfully honest discussion Mark decided to finally be a proper parent and have with Rachel on his way out didn't magically transform her, but clearly made her think, so it's also perfectly believable that nuanced talk rattled around in her head as she muddled through in the wake of his death and made her think.

Jen would be forced to be not just once again the primary but the sole parent, Rachel would continue doing what she was supposed to do to get by while also acting out, and at some point in college she'd get her shit together and - grades, MCAT score, and perfect sob story in hand - enter medical school.

This could just as easily have not happened, of course, but I don't have any problem with it happening, given how young she was when we left her.

[Danny Franks]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

Jen would be forced to be not just once again the primary but the sole parent, Rachel would continue doing what she was supposed to do to get by while also acting out, and at some point in college she'd get her shit together and - grades, MCAT score, and perfect sob story in hand - enter medical school.

Not quite the sole parent. Jen did have a husband, who had been stepfather to Rachel for several years. Although I don't know that he was ever mentioned again after Jen told Mark they were getting married.

The whole, "bratty kid plays one divorced parent off against the other," is constant on television and ER did it again with Sam and her kid just a couple of years later. I don't know why TV writers think this is compelling.

I don't have much of a problem believing that her dad's death was a genuine wake up call for Rachel, and she went back to live with her mother determined to honour his last wishes and make the most of her life. It also makes sense to me that she'd choose to pursue a career as a doctor, given she'd lived her whole life with the idea that "my dad is a doctor, he helps people" as part of her psyche.

22 hours ago, debraran said:

Carter's story still seemed "off" but I did like how he took his mom back and she seemed less plastic crying in his arms over their shared grief of his brother.

The only bit I liked about that storyline was that it finally showed us just why Carter had such a thing for older women - Susan, Abbie Keaton, Rebecca De Mornay and I think both Anna and Abby were supposed to be a few years his senior as well (or maybe Anna just seemed older because she was so collected and sensible, while Carter was still a bit of a naive goof).

His own mother was so cold and withdrawn, and he was simmering with repressed resentment over it, that he was looking for a quasi-maternal figure in the women he dated. I'd love to know if the writers deliberately created that pattern or whether it just happened accidentally.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Danny Franks

[readster]

6 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

 

The whole, "bratty kid plays one divorced parent off against the other," is constant on television and ER did it again with Sam and her kid just a couple of years later. I don't know why TV writers think this is compelling.

I don't have much of a problem believing that her dad's death was a genuine wake up call for Rachel, and she went back to live with her mother determined to honour his last wishes and make the most of her life. It also makes sense to me that she'd choose to pursue a career as a doctor, given she'd lived her whole life with the idea that "my dad is a doctor, he helps people" as part of her psyche.

Not to mention, Sam and her kid was also crap because Sam's ex was not only way way too much older because she liked "the bad boy" but the guy was in and out of jail. He was abusive and he was pretty nuts and came from an abusive background himself. Honestly, Sam needed to be far, far away from him and it got to the point it came out of some half assed thriller movie. With him organizing fellow criminals and falsifying records, getting a cop and several hospital staff and patients injured or killed. Then it ends with him doing a Lex Luthor and killing his henchmen and then Sam finally killing him while he was asleep. Then thought she could still hide the face and just say: "The police killed your dad." WTF?

[Heathen]

7 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Not quite the sole parent. Jen did have a husband, who had been stepfather to Rachel for several years. Although I don't know that he was ever mentioned again after Jen told Mark they were getting married.

The whole, "bratty kid plays one divorced parent off against the other," is constant on television and ER did it again with Sam and her kid just a couple of years later. I don't know why TV writers think this is compelling.

I don't have much of a problem believing that her dad's death was a genuine wake up call for Rachel, and she went back to live with her mother determined to honour his last wishes and make the most of her life. It also makes sense to me that she'd choose to pursue a career as a doctor, given she'd lived her whole life with the idea that "my dad is a doctor, he helps people" as part of her psyche.

The only bit I liked about that storyline was that it finally showed us just why Carter had such a thing for older women - Susan, Abbie Keaton, Rebecca De Mornay and I think both Anna and Abby were supposed to be a few years his senior as well (or maybe Anna just seemed older because she was so collected and sensible, while Carter was still a bit of a naive goof).

His own mother was so cold and withdrawn, and he was simmering with repressed resentment over it, that he was looking for a quasi-maternal figure in the women he dated. I'd love to know if the writers deliberately created that pattern or whether it just happened accidentally.

Didn't Jen and Craig split up later? 

Anna must have been older since Carter was an intern that year (and he was a year younger than most people at that stage of his training), and Anna had already done either a pediatrics or ER residency. But this is ER, where even the slackers somehow know more than experienced attendings with decades of experience, so who knows. 

Edited December 12, 2020 by Heathen

[Kel Varnsen]

9 hours ago, Bastet said:

Rachel was the white child of a white lawyer and a white doctor and we never heard she sucked as a student; she'd have to actively try to permanently blow up that privilege, so if she marginally applied herself she could progress through the educational ranks in high school and secure admission to a good university.

Plus both her parents had job where on paper at least you have to be relatively smart. If genetics plays a factor then she could have inherited some of those brains.

9 minutes ago, Heathen said:

Anna must have been older since Carter was an intern that year (and he was a year younger than most people at that stage of his training), and Anna had already done either a pediatrics or ER residency. 

I think your math is backwards. Carter would have been older that year then a typical inter since he was doing his first year of ER residency after doing a year of surgical residency. Because that was the season where he wasn't getting paid and trying to hide from Anna that he lived in a mansion.

[Heathen]

2 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Plus both her parents had job where on paper at least you have to be relatively smart. If genetics plays a factor then she could have inherited some of those brains.

I think your math is backwards. Carter would have been older that year then a typical inter since he was doing his first year of ER residency after doing a year of surgical residency. Because that was the season where he wasn't getting paid and trying to hide from Anna that he lived in a mansion.

When Carter talked to Anspaugh in the parking garage about switching to emergency medicine, Anspaugh asked if he was 26, and Carter said 25. He had already done a year of surgical internship, which means Carter probably graduated medical school at 24. That's why I said Carter was a year younger than most people at that stage of his training. (Anspaugh's tone when asking Carter his age, along with Carter's surprising answer, have always stuck in my head.) 

If you factor in his extra internship year, he still would have been a year younger or the same age, at the very most. But Anna had already done a residency. 

[debraran]

One of my favorite Romano/Lizzie moments. She's saying she can't do it after finding out about Mark, didn't want to go through it again.

"I don't think I can go through this again," "I'm sick and tired of being the strong one.  You know, we've broken up; we've grown apart.  He doesn't even expect me to be there, anyway." She looks over her shoulder for Romano's reaction, only to see him staring at his hands.  Turning to face him, she questions, "Well, what am I supposed to do?  Go home and watch him die?"

Long pause, then a soft "Yes."

"Well, I don't think I can," is Elizabeth's angry response. You will he says.

"

 

Such a waste of a character as we have said. Very touching few minutes.

Edited December 12, 2020 by debraran

[RedbirdNelly]

yes--Romano was wasted. He could have kept his edge to a degree but still had that softer side. No helicopter stunts. He still has some of my husband and my favorite snarky lines. We quote him between ourselves as a joke in our every day lives-i.e. "Maybe that is God's way of saying 'bad idea.'"

[debraran]

27 minutes ago, RedbirdNelly said:

yes--Romano was wasted. He could have kept his edge to a degree but still had that softer side. No helicopter stunts. He still has some of my husband and my favorite snarky lines. We quote him between ourselves as a joke in our every day lives-i.e. "Maybe that is God's way of saying 'bad idea.'"

Yes, lol, a lot of funny one liners. He once said he caused some tears but honesty was something most people didn't show. He also had some poignant ones, like when he was operating on a young girl with cancer they found accidentally and soon after Mark's recurrence:

"Amazing how the human body can turn on itself. The very process we need to grow in the womb, to regenerate ourselves, systematically eating us alive. But no-one's sacred. Little girls. Fathers with little girls. Cancer. Brain cancer, liver cancer, breast cancer. It's the same traitor. The merciless unrelenting predator. Like time itself."

[CrazyInAlabama]

Romano had some great scenes.  like when Lizzy was so pregnant, and he sent her pizza and ice cream, when he tried everything to save Lucy, and failed, when he fished Lizzy's wedding ring out of the drain after Mark died.      The episode with his sick dog was so great.