All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[readster]

2 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

 

I always hoped that someday Susan would get little Suzy (her niece by sister Chloe) back.  

How many times did they go back to that well that was empty for stories including the "gah" Third Watch crossover episode. I mean, addiction is a sad thing, but then you throw in that apparently Chloe's husband knew about her constant slips and didn't tell anyone. Plus, Susan confessing how Chloe use to be a loving and great sister. When did that happened? Chloe was always depicted as a mess since day 1 and why their mother didn't want to deal with her living with her or raising little Suzy. Plus, hell how Chloe was able to keep little Suzy after her not only slip up, but also almost ending up dead and Suzy kidnapped. Sorry, a throw away call to tell Susan where they were and so forth. Chloe's ass would have been in prison and little Suzy would be in a family care or in protective services. 

[Kel Varnsen]

So I am working my way through season 5 and I watched the episode just before Doug helps euthanize the kid. The is a scene at the beginning with no dialogue where he walks to the El train in the dark and snow by himself. He is wearing a long jacket and a toque and it really made me think that he would have made a hell of a Batman. But it would have had to have been a Nolan style Batman set in something close to the real world. And he would have had to have been a middle aged tired, sore, beat-down jaded kind of Batman who really wasn't sure what the point of crime fighting was. It is really too bad no one in 1997 was interested in making that movie, since it could have been awesome.

[readster]

13 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

So I am working my way through season 5 and I watched the episode just before Doug helps euthanize the kid. The is a scene at the beginning with no dialogue where he walks to the El train in the dark and snow by himself. He is wearing a long jacket and a toque and it really made me think that he would have made a hell of a Batman. But it would have had to have been a Nolan style Batman set in something close to the real world. And he would have had to have been a middle aged tired, sore, beat-down jaded kind of Batman who really wasn't sure what the point of crime fighting was. It is really too bad no one in 1997 was interested in making that movie, since it could have been awesome.

Right and you do have to wonder if that's what they were thinking until they made it a bit TOO campy. Speaking of that storyline, yeah, I like how magically the father of that kid just showed up and it was: "Oh, they have been seperated for over a year." Never ONCE was he talked about or if he was in the picture. Then his speech to Doug with: "Just wanted to hold him in my arms one last time and tell him I loved him. You took that away from me!" I wanted to go: "His older brother died from the same disease, you knew he was getting worst and after he stopped talking it wouldn't be much longer." Where the hell were you then? My mother originally said: "Have to blame someone instead of looking in the mirror and knowing you missed your chance." Another thing was Doug getting the job and the bug was planted in his ear by the "fake" doctor. That also rubbed me the wrong way, because how someone got that far in lying about who they were and what they were doing. The fact that Anspaugh was: "Well, I heard two other doctors speak good of her." She was hiding things and knew she be found out by trying to "remove" the journals. I mean, then years later when the trio under Sam's ex kidnapped her and dumb ass kid. I wanted to go: "Yeah, you can fake that stuff to get hired as a EMT in a Chicago hospital." The show was really bad at defying logic for things like that for the sake of drama. 

[Danny Franks]

16 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

So I am working my way through season 5 and I watched the episode just before Doug helps euthanize the kid. The is a scene at the beginning with no dialogue where he walks to the El train in the dark and snow by himself. He is wearing a long jacket and a toque and it really made me think that he would have made a hell of a Batman. But it would have had to have been a Nolan style Batman set in something close to the real world. And he would have had to have been a middle aged tired, sore, beat-down jaded kind of Batman who really wasn't sure what the point of crime fighting was. It is really too bad no one in 1997 was interested in making that movie, since it could have been awesome.

A more grounded less 'Frank Miller' adaptation of The Dark Knight Returns could have been a really good way of using Clooney's magnetic moroseness. 

I always found it irritatingly amusing that they looked at troubled, miserable, self-destructive Doug Ross and said, 'we need to double down on this with his replacement. What's Doug's problem? Deadbeat dad and self-loathing.... Okay, so how about a guy who lost his entire family and blames himself? Cool.'

As I said a few days ago, I decided to rewatch the show from the beginning and it's incredible how much more grounded the storylines were, but also how interestingly some of them have dated. Take Vondie Curtis-Hall's guest spot in season one, as the transgender woman coming to terms with no longer being able to pass as a woman, and the incredibly uncomfortable reaction that Carter, in particular, had to her. Benton, on the other hand, doesn't even blink when informed that Rena goes by "she", he immediately switches pronouns and carries on.

There was also a theme of recurring patients that I liked a lot - Patrick, the big, loveable guy with the football helmet, Ivan the store owner who kept being shot by robbers until he fatally shot someone he believed had robbed him before, Mrs. Cavanaugh, the dementia patient played by Rosemary Clooney. It gave the ER a living, breathing quality.

[Kel Varnsen]

7 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

A more grounded less 'Frank Miller' adaptation of The Dark Knight Returns could have been a really good way of using Clooney's magnetic moroseness. 

I was thinking a Bruce Wayne somewhere in between (career wise)The Dark Knight Returns and Bale's Batman in The Dark Knight Rises. Someone just beat down by the system who probably takes a shit ton of pain killers. Doug's whole character is a guy who is beat down by a bureaucracy that stops him from helping kids as best as he can, and a guy who fights the endless fight since there are always kids getting needlessly hurt and there will always be more. Just like with Batman there the criminals will always keep coming and there is a corrupt system that keeps making it harder to stop them. Plus you could have that then you could have George turn on the fake Clooney charm when it is time to be Bruce.

12 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

There was also a theme of recurring patients that I liked a lot - Patrick, the big, loveable guy with the football helmet, Ivan the store owner who kept being shot by robbers until he fatally shot someone he believed had robbed him before, Mrs. Cavanaugh, the dementia patient played by Rosemary Clooney. It gave the ER a living, breathing quality.

There was also the sex worker who got an office job but had cancer. The last episode I saw she asked Mark if he would take custody of her kids and he said no.

[readster]

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

 Doug's whole character is a guy who is beat down by a bureaucracy that stops him from helping kids as best as he can, and a guy who fights the endless fight since there are always kids getting needlessly hurt and there will always be more. Just like with Batman there the criminals will always keep coming and there is a corrupt system that keeps making it harder to stop them. Plus you could have that then you could have George turn on the fake Clooney charm when it is time to be Bruce.

 

I also found it so stupid the way the hospital actually looked at peds for years on the show from when Doug was there and after he left. Hell, you had people who DIDN'T want their kids at County because of it being a death march or how they were never willing to nail the morons at the hospital who botched surgeries or were covering up their own problems. I think the line said it the best when Doug wanted to be the attending at the hospital and even Mark said: "Well, if we make Doug a Peds attending, why don't we just make every special area an attending." I was like: "umm... there are main attending or head doctors for departments, why do you act like it's 1950?"

[debraran]

2 hours ago, readster said:

I also found it so stupid the way the hospital actually looked at peds for years on the show from when Doug was there and after he left. Hell, you had people who DIDN'T want their kids at County because of it being a death march or how they were never willing to nail the morons at the hospital who botched surgeries or were covering up their own problems. I think the line said it the best when Doug wanted to be the attending at the hospital and even Mark said: "Well, if we make Doug a Peds attending, why don't we just make every special area an attending." I was like: "umm... there are main attending or head doctors for departments, why do you act like it's 1950?"

I found it fascinating that Doug got a job offer he didn't apply for and it was told to him by a fake doctor on staff. He gets in trouble and wonders if that job offer still holds a month or so later. Seems to not have an interview and just goes and gets it. It seems to be very well paid vs County. He goes from an apartment and begging for dollars from Mark to a house by the water and a boat! No wonder he didn't want screaming kids there yet. lol  I'm sure that has happened to someone...NOT.

I didn't understand the not wanting a Peds attending either. Departments had them when I worked at Yale.

 

[readster]

3 hours ago, debraran said:

I found it fascinating that Doug got a job offer he didn't apply for and it was told to him by a fake doctor on staff. He gets in trouble and wonders if that job offer still holds a month or so later. Seems to not have an interview and just goes and gets it. It seems to be very well paid vs County. He goes from an apartment and begging for dollars from Mark to a house by the water and a boat! No wonder he didn't want screaming kids there yet. lol  I'm sure that has happened to someone...NOT.

I didn't understand the not wanting a Peds attending either. Departments had them when I worked at Yale.

 

Yep, as they say: "contrived". The only thing that would make sense is that fake doctor was planning on going there next and after being found out. Made a run for it. 

[Hava]

Was there even a pediatrician on staff after Cleo left? Seems like the show left that whole peds department thing behind in the later years.

[readster]

17 hours ago, Hava said:

Was there even a pediatrician on staff after Cleo left? Seems like the show left that whole peds department thing behind in the later years.

Yeah, they basically just had doctors "handling" kid cases. Like I mentioned with the little girl who was the granddaughter of a throw away story in the early seasons. The dad didn't want her anywhere near the hospital, YET... the school took her to county and the whole story was: "She needs her surgery" and the entire episode is about trying to get ahold of the father who apparently as on a business trip. Lucius and Luka of course use their "veto" parent signature when she almost dies and performs a routine surgery to take care of her appendix. 

The father comes in, chews out everyone saying: "You had some young doctor who thought he was a hotshot and killed my father." "I hate this hospital." You get he is angry, but no one calls him on: "We saved your daughter's life." or "None of us were here for that, fuck you too, sir!" 

[ShortyMac]

4 hours ago, readster said:

Yeah, they basically just had doctors "handling" kid cases. Like I mentioned with the little girl who was the granddaughter of a throw away story in the early seasons. The dad didn't want her anywhere near the hospital, YET... the school took her to county and the whole story was: "She needs her surgery" and the entire episode is about trying to get ahold of the father who apparently as on a business trip. Lucius and Luka of course use their "veto" parent signature when she almost dies and performs a routine surgery to take care of her appendix. 

The father comes in, chews out everyone saying: "You had some young doctor who thought he was a hotshot and killed my father." "I hate this hospital." You get he is angry, but no one calls him on: "We saved your daughter's life." or "None of us were here for that, fuck you too, sir!" 

That is 11x08 - "A Shot in the Dark." A girl comes in with vomiting, and the parents hate County, and want her transferred, and the mom is an idiot who keeps stalling treatment until her husband can get there. By the time a transfer is arranged, the girl's condition has worsened quickly, and Abby has to get Dubenko to see her, and she turns septic and needs emergency surgery. They catch the appendicitis in time before rupture, the dad comes in freaking out, even Dubenko being the Chief doesn't calm his fears. I get it, but, the parents were complete assholes. They considered everyone incompetent. The dad chewed out Abby on the phone for trying to do her job, and both of them treated all of the staff like shit. Rewatching the story line made me mad all over again. lol 

[readster]

6 hours ago, ShortyMac said:

That is 11x08 - "A Shot in the Dark." A girl comes in with vomiting, and the parents hate County, and want her transferred, and the mom is an idiot who keeps stalling treatment until her husband can get there. By the time a transfer is arranged, the girl's condition has worsened quickly, and Abby has to get Dubenko to see her, and she turns septic and needs emergency surgery. They catch the appendicitis in time before rupture, the dad comes in freaking out, even Dubenko being the Chief doesn't calm his fears. I get it, but, the parents were complete assholes. They considered everyone incompetent. The dad chewed out Abby on the phone for trying to do her job, and both of them treated all of the staff like shit. Rewatching the story line made me mad all over again. lol 

Right and as much as we loathe Abby, here everyone is in the right, but the parents. I mean if the mom knows WHY her husband hates the hospital. Then get your asses in gear and go, I mean you hating the hospital could have gotten your daughter killed. Plus, jeeze just tell the school: "Don't send her to country!" They acted like couldn't have done that from the start. 

[Danny Franks]

So while I'm doing a rewatch from the start, my girlfriend is two thirds of the way through her rewatch and just started season ten. I caught part of an episode yesterday - the one where Abby gets back into medical school - and couldn't help but think 'this is why people hate her character'.

She's a med student (on her first day back in the programme) but she's also the surgical consult for the ER, working apparently unsupervised and able to make diagnoses on cases that require surgery. Then she's reporting directly to Elizabeth, an attending.

Look, ER, it's not that hard. You already set a precedent for how medical students work, particularly those on their surgical rotation, with Carter. They do scut work and sutures and follow their resident around. They have no real autonomy and are certainly not trusted to consult on trauma cases. Because they're not doctors yet! But Super Abby is apparently different. Either that or the writers are lazy and can't be bothered to make her experience as a med student realistic or even in keeping with previously established show lore.

Edited November 2, 2020 by Danny Franks

[readster]

5 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

 

Look, ER, it's not that hard. You already set a precedent for how medical students work, particularly those on their surgical rotation, with Carter. They do scut work and sutures and follow their resident around. They have no real autonomy and are certainly not trusted to consult on trauma cases. Because they're not doctors yet! But Super Abby is apparently different. Either that or the writers are lazy and can't be bothered to make her experience as a med student realistic or even in keeping with previously established show lore.

No kidding, even when John Stamos came onto the and his character was to transfer from Paramedic to full doctor. They had him being questioned and asked about things constantly. (Sadly things even a first year would know). Yet with Abby, oh no, it was Super Abby, she knows everything and never step in and set her straight. Then again, even when Stanley Tucci's character told her about she needed to stay away from higher up doctors and that she couldn't "sleep" her way with the boss to get things. Which at that time it was just Luka and he got tired of the red tape crap. He apparently wasn't there when Carter was head of the ER. Yet, then he decides to in a moment of drinking (knowing her history) sleeps. Messes up her already shakey marriage with Luka and the fact that broke up his own marriage. Then turns around and tells Luka that the one nighter helped get his wife together and made him be a better father to his also bi-polar son. Because like Grey's had alzheimer's running around, bi-polar and schizophrenia ran around ER like it was the flu or COVID. 

[doodlebug]

6 hours ago, readster said:

No kidding, even when John Stamos came onto the and his character was to transfer from Paramedic to full doctor. They had him being questioned and asked about things constantly. (Sadly things even a first year would know). Yet with Abby, oh no, it was Super Abby, she knows everything and never step in and set her straight. Then again, even when Stanley Tucci's character told her about she needed to stay away from higher up doctors and that she couldn't "sleep" her way with the boss to get things. Which at that time it was just Luka and he got tired of the red tape crap. He apparently wasn't there when Carter was head of the ER. Yet, then he decides to in a moment of drinking (knowing her history) sleeps. Messes up her already shakey marriage with Luka and the fact that broke up his own marriage. Then turns around and tells Luka that the one nighter helped get his wife together and made him be a better father to his also bi-polar son. Because like Grey's had alzheimer's running around, bi-polar and schizophrenia ran around ER like it was the flu or COVID. 

One of the most ridiculous ER contrivances for me was when Abby and Neela were medical students in the NICU.  Not only is Abby sent by herself to resuscitate the child of the ER's Department head at birth: Kerry then decides Abby is the only person she trusts to do an LP on her newborn.  As if it made any sense at all for a medical student to be resuscitating anyone's baby; let alone for the ER chief to insist that said medical student, on NICU for less than a month, was the only person capable of performing a tricky procedure on her baby.  Then, the very capable and talented NICU doc almost gets down on her knees and begs Queen Abby to please, please, please become a neonatologist.  I guess she forgot that Abby would need to do a Pediatric residency first since neonatology is a sub-specialty and requires a completed residency or else the doc thought that Abby, being so much better than any doctor, ever, could just skip the residency and become a fellow without bothering with trivia like 3 years of peds since she was so special.

In my own medical career, I did an NICU rotation as a student.  We were literally not allowed to touch the babies because touch is stressful for them.  We never, ever, made any clinical decisions, never drew their blood, never examined them without being specifically invited to do so.  I doubt the attending physician, who made rounds with a couple of Peds residents and a NICU fellow in addition to the med students on rotation, ever even knew my name; and, if he did, he forgot it the minute the next batch of students arrived on the first of the next month.  We were repeatedly told that NICU was a great rotation for medical students to catch up on their reading, to learn all about newborn anatomy and physiology because there was very little opportunity for hands-on with sick babies.

There was also the fallacy that Abby was the most outstanding, amazing medical student ever but, yet, she flunked her boards and wasn't able to graduate med school with her class.  First, anyone who has managed to get into medical school has to know how to take a standardized test and has been taking them and getting good scores for decades  prior to board exams.  Second, anyone who has attended a regular American medical school with a standard curriculum should be able to pass their boards with one hand tied behind their back.  Literally only a tiny percentage of American born and trained med students flunk their boards.  There are always a lot of foreign-born doctors who don't speak English as their first language who are far more likely to not pass due to the language barrier.  Finally, I have known several physicians who did not pass the medical boards on the first try.  In every case, they were average to below-average medical students and none of them were outstanding physicians either.  If you don't know the medicine, you won't be a great doctor.  Yes, there is more to medicine than passing a test but you've got to have a handle on the medicine before any of the rest comes into play.

Sort of like Gates, who we learned was secretly dyslexic and had trouble reading and writing when he was an ER resident.  Medical school is virtually nothing but reading and writing for the first year and a half or more.  8 hours of class Monday through Friday with 4 hours of reading every single night.  But, somehow, Gates made it through med school while working full time as an EMT and nobody noticed he couldn't read.

Edited November 2, 2020 by doodlebug

[readster]

35 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

 

There was also the fallacy that Abby was the most outstanding, amazing medical student ever but, yet, she flunked her boards and wasn't able to graduate med school with her class.  First, anyone who has managed to get into medical school has to know how to take a standardized test and has been taking them and getting good scores for decades  prior to board exams.  Second, anyone who has attended a regular American medical school with a standard curriculum should be able to pass their boards with one hand tied behind their back.  Literally only a tiny percentage of American born and trained med students flunk their boards.  There are always a lot of foreign-born doctors who don't speak English as their first language who are far more likely to not pass due to the language barrier.  Finally, I have known several physicians who did not pass the medical boards on the first try.  In every case, they were average to below-average medical students and none of them were outstanding physicians either.  If you don't know the medicine, you won't be a great doctor.  Yes, there is more to medicine than passing a test but you've got to have a handle on the medicine before any of the rest comes into play.

 

Let's not forget Morris, who up until that point was constantly revealed to have had "help" in getting through Medical School. Yet said: "I passed them on my first try." Which translated to: "Well, my agent and manager told TPTB that I either become a competent doctor, or I'm out of here, I mean I got an Emmy for Band of Brothers. I'm not some dumbass. 

[Danny Franks]

So over the last few days I've watched both "best episodes of ER" (some may argue that others are better, but the only one that I can think of which compares is All in the Family, from season six) - Love's Labor Lost and Hell and High Water - and I have to say, they both hold up incredibly well.

The build up of tension and the cascade of one thing after another going wrong, all pushing Mark inexorably into the awful outcome is so tough to watch. Especially because the couple having the baby are so adorable (Bradley Whitford is always great, but I don't think I've ever seen the woman who played the expecting mother in anything else).

And in Hell and High Water, you really get the best of Doug Ross - compassionate, driven, compulsive and daring, and that's all just in his professional life. But you also get the story with Carter, Harper and Molly, the young girl who dies after a bike accident. And that's absolutely gutting too.

But it just circles back around to my oft repeated point about how ER did small tragedies and dramas so, so well and made them into "events" that everyone talked about. The escalation of that into huge, convoluted, melodramatic nonsense like bad dad's going on a gun rampage or crazy patients stealing tanks or helicopters landing on people, just felt silly and inauthentic.

[Bastet]

6 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

(Bradley Whitford is always great, but I don't think I've ever seen the woman who played the expecting mother in anything else).

Colleen Flynn.  She's appeared in several shows I've watched; she had a recurring role on Judging Amy, and guest starred on Cold Case, The Closer, and The X-Files.  She has an everyperson quality that makes her well-suited to these one-off sympathetic roles, because you really get caught up on what the character is going through.  She and Whitford did a great job keeping their ER characters feeling real, with a script that sometimes tried get a little too on the nose making them the perfect couple and parents-to-be.

[SoMuchTV]

33 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

The build up of tension and the cascade of one thing after another going wrong, all pushing Mark inexorably into the awful outcome is so tough to watch. Especially because the couple having the baby are so adorable (Bradley Whitford is always great, but I don't think I've ever seen the woman who played the expecting mother in anything else).

Wait, what??  Present day Bradley Whitford hadn’t made much of an impression on me, but I recently started watching The West Wing, so that’s changed my lens. I had no idea he was in LLL. I’m going to have to figure out how I can rewatch that one. 

[PepSinger]

On 11/2/2020 at 12:17 PM, doodlebug said:

One of the most ridiculous ER contrivances for me was when Abby and Neela were medical students in the NICU.

Those episodes just aired on Pop, and they were painful to watch because it was so unrealistic. I also hated how she acted as though she knew more than anyone else because she used to be an OB nurse. 

I also "loved" her Psych rotation where she smoked a cigarette during group. How edgy.

[doodlebug]

13 hours ago, PepSinger said:

Those episodes just aired on Pop, and they were painful to watch because it was so unrealistic. I also hated how she acted as though she knew more than anyone else because she used to be an OB nurse. 

I also "loved" her Psych rotation where she smoked a cigarette during group. How edgy.

Hey, Abby was the sexiest, coolest, smartest girl in the whole school!  At least that was what TPTB repeatedly tried to tell us.  Ever notice how every single nurse, doctor, patient and maintenance worker was in awe of her beauty and couldn't hold back from telling everyone how brilliant and beautiful she was?  In an ER where 95% of the people working were 10 times better looking than the average, but, yet, no one seemed to notice.

MT is cute, but she cannot hold a candle lookswise to most of the other females on the show and it was just over the top ridiculous the amount of dialog spent telling the audience how amazing she is,

15 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

Wait, what??  Present day Bradley Whitford hadn’t made much of an impression on me, but I recently started watching The West Wing, so that’s changed my lens. I had no idea he was in LLL. I’m going to have to figure out how I can rewatch that one. 

He plays the young father to be and is outstanding.  I am currently in the midst of my umpteenth rewatch of TWW which I am watching instead of the news these days and continue to be amazed at how timely so many of those episodes are.  BW was one of many terrific actors on that show, too.

ER is streaming on HULU currently.  You can sign up for a free trial and catch it there.

Edited November 6, 2020 by doodlebug

[SoMuchTV]

9 hours ago, doodlebug said:

 

He plays the young father to be and is outstanding.  I am currently in the midst of my umpteenth rewatch of TWW which I am watching instead of the news these days and continue to be amazed at how timely so many of those episodes are.  BW was one of many terrific actors on that show, too.

ER is streaming on HULU currently.  You can sign up for a free trial and catch it there.

I do have Hulu, and I just rewatched the first part of that episode. I’m not sure if I handle the rest. Poor baby Bradley 😞

So, back to my West Wings to avoid current-day politics. 

[Danny Franks]

On 11/2/2020 at 6:17 PM, doodlebug said:

One of the most ridiculous ER contrivances for me was when Abby and Neela were medical students in the NICU.

My girlfriend is watching this episode right now and the writing is so stupid it hurts.

There's a scene where they just confirmed a baby has a brain bleed and the doctor says "I've got to go, there's a C-section," and leaves two med students and a nurse alone with the baby. Then it starts to seize and there's no suggestion that they need to get a fucking doctor!

It's all just so Abby can take decisive, risky action to prove her pluckiness and Neela can despair about the suggestion she made for the baby's treatment.

I absolutely hate it. Even I, with no medical knowledge other than what I've seen on ER and what my girlfriend (who is a doctor) has told me, can see how inaccurate the whole thing is.

[debraran]

Did they have different writers for ER as it went on?  The quality after season 7 dropped a lot over the years and it seemed the warm family type feeling you got with the old crew just was a jumble of uninteresting or irritating people who came too fast and just weren't characters you wanted to visit as much. Even the realism always given pretty good marks in the past, faltered. They had friendships like Doug/Mark just end without any mention of each other, Romano they ruined and he could have had such good stories. I'm not sure what they were looking for with Cleo(not the only black actress out there) Abby or even Sam fiasco.

Shows like Raymond, MASH, L&O (original) kept the quality longer and I don't know if they just got tired of writing for ER or just felt having a bunch of characters sleep together and not developing any of them was better. I'm re watching on Hulu, but I always falter and get distracted after season 8.

I guess this group will always be my fav. Pic from Julianna

https://www.instagram.com/p/B-zyasVn9Zm/?utm_source=ig_embed

[readster]

1 hour ago, debraran said:

Did they have different writers for ER as it went on?  The quality after season 7 dropped a lot over the years and it seemed the warm family type feeling you got with the old crew just was a jumble of uninteresting or irritating people who came too fast and just weren't characters you wanted to visit as much. Even the realism always given pretty good marks in the past, faltered. They had friendships like Doug/Mark just end without any mention of each other, Romano they ruined and he could have had such good stories. I'm not sure what they were looking for with Cleo(not the only black actress out there) Abby or even Sam fiasco.

Shows like Raymond, MASH, L&O (original) kept the quality longer and I don't know if they just got tired of writing for ER or just felt having a bunch of characters sleep together and not developing any of them was better. I'm re watching on Hulu, but I always falter and get distracted after season 8.

I guess this group will always be my fav. Pic from Julianna

https://www.instagram.com/p/B-zyasVn9Zm/?utm_source=ig_embed

There was a change of direction, I do know that and when Michael Criton withdrew as EP, that also changed the course of the series. The writers seemed to get obsessed with Maura T, trying to be "over the top" drama. Getting well known actors from movies, who really just wanted a paycheck and keep getting work as "special guest stars". Trying to grab more awards, ect. Basically, much like other TV shows that go on way, way past their prime, they got greedy and it was all about ratings or as it's called these days with shows like: Grey's, Bachelor, Survivor "hate watching". 

[Hava]

Why was every male character in love with Neela? 

[Kel Varnsen]

On 11/5/2020 at 6:04 PM, Danny Franks said:

And in Hell and High Water, you really get the best of Doug Ross - compassionate, driven, compulsive and daring, and that's all just in his professional life. But you also get the story with Carter, Harper and Molly, the young girl who dies after a bike accident. And that's absolutely gutting too.

One funny thing about that episode is that Doug left his car, a 90's Firebird I think, outside a park in Chicago on a stormy night, with the window open. Then at the end he comments about how he needs to go pick it up. But I am thinking with how he left it, it is either gone, totally stripped or being used as a homeless person's bedroom and bathroom.

14 hours ago, debraran said:

Did they have different writers for ER as it went on?  The quality after season 7 dropped a lot over the years and it seemed the warm family type feeling you got with the old crew just was a jumble of uninteresting or irritating people

I am about a third of the way through season 6 (Carol just gave birth) and there are already a few more things that bug me than in the previous seasons. Romano for one is in the show way too much. For someone who doesn't really have storylines of his own and is just a way to drive other characters plots I wished they had used him less since he is just a weaselly villian almost a the time.

Plus Dr Dave is super annoying. And in one of the episodes I watched tonight he said he went to med school in Grenada since he didn't have the grades for a US school. But they have just spent the last 5 seasons telling me how the County resident program is super competitive and hard to get into. So how did Dave manage that?

[CrazyInAlabama]

I think the answer is that Dave took someone else's place who dropped out, or left the program for some reason.   When that happens, the hospital gets someone that may not usually qualify.     

I bet they went through a lot of writers over the life of the show, and they didn't follow the continuity books they usually do for each character, and what's happened over the seasons to them.      The ones who go to some schools in other countries have a better chance of getting into a U.S. intern and residency program.   

Years ago, the Grenada school wasn't one of those, and the chances of getting into a decent program in the U.S. was pretty dismal.  That one was the place where people who had a lot of money for tuition and living costs sent their kids, because if you had the dough, you could get in.   They would send their kids who had no chance of qualifying for the regular overseas medical schools with a path to get into a U.S. school.    They had a lot more hoops to jump through to get into a U.S. program, and never would have ended up in a decent residency program, except through TV show story line shenanigans.   (My mother had a wealthy friend and her son was sent through the Grenada school, because he couldn't get in a U.S. medical school, or an alternate path, so they sent him to Grenada.    He never became a doctor.       Remember Elizabeth had to do her intern year over again, and she had completed medical school, and her internship, and surgical training in England.)   

Edited November 11, 2020 by CrazyInAlabama

[wknt3]

On 11/2/2020 at 7:20 AM, readster said:

Because like Grey's had alzheimer's running around, bi-polar and schizophrenia ran around ER like it was the flu or COVID. 

BPD is the lazy television's writer's favorite! Got a character you have written into a corner by having them do stupid things that are totally OOC? Have an actor who wants to show their "range"? They're not overacting or poorly written they are bi-polar! And then you can put them on meds and viola - reset button!

[Kel Varnsen]

About half way through season 6 now. Just watched the Lucy stabbed and then dies episodes. But man they could have at least tried to make it a little less obvious that Abby was the new Lucy. I mean I guess it is good that they didn't make her blonde.

Although as a Newsradio fan the important thing I need to know is: did Abby and Peter's sister ever have a scene together?

There are some other weird things I am noticing, like what happened to the clinic. Last season they made a point of how Anspaugh wouldn't close it of Carol quit, but there is no sign of it or the lady who took over running it. Also where is Jerry? And why has he been replaced with a low rent version of Jimmy Fallon?

[doodlebug]

13 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

About half way through season 6 now. Just watched the Lucy stabbed and then dies episodes. But man they could have at least tried to make it a little less obvious that Abby was the new Lucy. I mean I guess it is good that they didn't make her blonde.

Although as a Newsradio fan the important thing I need to know is: did Abby and Peter's sister ever have a scene together?

There are some other weird things I am noticing, like what happened to the clinic. Last season they made a point of how Anspaugh wouldn't close it of Carol quit, but there is no sign of it or the lady who took over running it. Also where is Jerry? And why has he been replaced with a low rent version of Jimmy Fallon?

Don't worry, blond Abby is coming.  And, if she and Jackie appeared in the same scene, it was only fleeting.  There is a point where Jackie is in the ER because a family member is a patient but I don't remember if she encountered Abby or not.  But, if she did, there was no full fledged conversation between them.

The clinic disappeared without a trace after season 5, never to be mentioned again.

Jerry was played by Abraham Benrubi, got a bigger role in a new series and so was gone from ER for a while.  It didn't last long, he'll be back. Low rent Jimmy Fallon doesn't hang around very long.  Frank is the main unit secretary during ER's twilight years.

Edited November 11, 2020 by doodlebug

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

Don't worry, blond Abby is coming.  And, if she and Jackie appeared in the same scene, it was only fleeting.  There is a point where Jackie is in the ER because a family member is a patient but I don't remember if she encountered Abby or not.  But, if she did, there was no full fledged conversation between them.

The clinic disappeared without a trace after season 5, never to be mentioned again.

Jerry was played by Abraham Benrubi, got a bigger role in a new series and so was gone from ER for a while.  It didn't last long, he'll be back. Low rent Jimmy Fallon doesn't hang around very long.  Frank is the main unit secretary during ER's twilight years.

I think the Abby as a replacement Lucy is a lot more jarring because I am binge watching. When it was first on it must have been at least a month or so between Abby showing up as a med student and Lucy dying. But when I watch 2 episodes a night they happen about 24 hours apart and all of the sudden there is a new 3rd year female med student with a y-sounding name. It was the same thing with Doug's last episode. One night he says he has to leave and the next night he is gone. It seemed kind of weird until I realized that Clooney's last ep was probably for sweeps then they probably took a few weeks off.

Too bad about no Abby and Jackie though that could have been fun. One of the best part about doing a rewatch is seeing people who got famous in other shows. Alias has been the best so far (especially since we just watched it in the summer). In ER we got Sloane, Dixon (as Jeannie's boyfriend/doctor), Marshall as a patient and even Anspaugh played a corrupt CIA boss. And I guess down the road we get Angela Bassett.

Good to know about the low rent Fallon. The funny thing is, this season came out like a year after Fallon joined SNL, so if they had wanted to add that character a little earlier they might have ended up with the actual Jimmy Fallon.

[Danny Franks]

3 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I think the Abby as a replacement Lucy is a lot more jarring because I am binge watching. When it was first on it must have been at least a month or so between Abby showing up as a med student and Lucy dying. But when I watch 2 episodes a night they happen about 24 hours apart and all of the sudden there is a new 3rd year female med student with a y-sounding name. It was the same thing with Doug's last episode. One night he says he has to leave and the next night he is gone. It seemed kind of weird until I realized that Clooney's last ep was probably for sweeps then they probably took a few weeks off.

Oh, Abby isn't just a Lucy replacement, she's a Carol replacement too. It's crazy how on-the-nose it is - she comes in as a med student and muscles in on Lucy's scenes, then her ex loses her tuition money so she ends up going back to being a nurse... in the ER for some reason instead of in OBGYN, where she's worked her whole career.

Then she gets together with the broody doctor who Carol dumped when she left to be with the original version of the broody doctor. But she's also Carter's love interest, which was a role earmarked for Lucy until Noah Wyle objected.

[Birdie]

Was rewatching some episodes to get continuity and facts correct for a fic idea I have (I’m 19; I read and write fanfic, lol).

I was reminded how much I HATE the episode “Secrets and Lies.” It was actually on a list of best ER episodes, but I can’t stand it. And I know the show included scenes that allowed the actors to show off other talents (Haleh and Archie with their singing, Stamos’ drumming), but Carter and Luka fencing seemed SO FORCED. Like, randomly finding fencing equipment in a cupboard in a room that’s not designed to be fenced in?? 

And can you imagine being Susan? The guy you’re dating is having an actual duel with another dude over another woman - Abby of all people. MT is not ugly, but she was not the prettiest. I think SS is much prettier. (But I’m aware that’s just my opinion, and looks can only compensate for so much if personalities don’t click).

But, really, Abby? The morose, woe is me, emo of the ER? I get people get depressed and stressed and deal with a lot, but people who are constantly like that are DRAINING. You try and try to give advice when they ask, but they reject it; you try to think of positive things to do and say, but they want to wallow. It’s tiring (and I think that’s kind of what Carter was experiencing as his and Abby’s relationship was coming to an end). I am sensitive and find it easy to take on others emotions, so I need to watch myself around these types of people. 

And the group laughing at Carter’s revelation of basically being raped at age 11? Ugh. Gross.  This episode brought out the worst in those five characters. 

All that being said, and on an unrelated note, was it ever explained where Dr Hicks went?

[readster]

3 hours ago, Birdie said:

Was rewatching some episodes to get continuity and facts correct for a fic idea I have (I’m 19; I read and write fanfic, lol).

And the group laughing at Carter’s revelation of basically being raped at age 11? Ugh. Gross.  This episode brought out the worst in those five characters. 

All that being said, and on an unrelated note, was it ever explained where Dr Hicks went?

No kidding. I mean the fact they go: "I hope you gave her a good tip." No, it should have been: "Carter... you were basically raped!" It didn't come off funny at all and the fact that John didn't have more emotional problems growing up is astonding. I mean, the maid basically took advantage of a pre-teen barely into puberty. His brother dies at 15, his parents go into constant issues after wards. I mean, I get the writers were then trying to say as time went on that John was trapped in this endless cycle of people draining and using him for years. Instead it came off as: "John, run away, run far away." Oh no, then they had to have him: be attacked by a patient, watch his student die, have Maggie's draining/vampire life on him. Have him meet Kem (ugh) kill their son and then have him go through having no kidneys. I mean at what point do the writers just go: "Ok, this is too much." 

[ch1]

I’m always here for Secrets and Lies hate.  Terrible terrible episode.

Regarding Carter’s traumatic life let’s not forget he saw his roommate and friend come in after being hit by a train (Gant) and blamed himself, and had his closest family member outside his grandmother OD, which he also blamed himself for.

It makes his ending in the last season more crappy when you think of all the shit he went through.  Seriously between him and Kem, Carter is the one that should have shut down after their son’s stillbirth.
 

[doodlebug]

7 hours ago, Birdie said:

Was rewatching some episodes to get continuity and facts correct for a fic idea I have (I’m 19; I read and write fanfic, lol).

I was reminded how much I HATE the episode “Secrets and Lies.” It was actually on a list of best ER episodes, but I can’t stand it. And I know the show included scenes that allowed the actors to show off other talents (Haleh and Archie with their singing, Stamos’ drumming), but Carter and Luka fencing seemed SO FORCED. Like, randomly finding fencing equipment in a cupboard in a room that’s not designed to be fenced in?? 

And can you imagine being Susan? The guy you’re dating is having an actual duel with another dude over another woman - Abby of all people. MT is not ugly, but she was not the prettiest. I think SS is much prettier. (But I’m aware that’s just my opinion, and looks can only compensate for so much if personalities don’t click).

But, really, Abby? The morose, woe is me, emo of the ER? I get people get depressed and stressed and deal with a lot, but people who are constantly like that are DRAINING. You try and try to give advice when they ask, but they reject it; you try to think of positive things to do and say, but they want to wallow. It’s tiring (and I think that’s kind of what Carter was experiencing as his and Abby’s relationship was coming to an end). I am sensitive and find it easy to take on others emotions, so I need to watch myself around these types of people. 

And the group laughing at Carter’s revelation of basically being raped at age 11? Ugh. Gross.  This episode brought out the worst in those five characters. 

All that being said, and on an unrelated note, was it ever explained where Dr Hicks went?

I think for many of us ER fans, that particular episode was the lowest of low points.  Even the premise, that a bunch of adult medical professionals took a patient's private property so they could giggle like teens at the 'dirty' stuff, was totally awful.  Then, we spend virtually all of the episode outside of the ER and away from anything medical.  Almost all of the other out of the ER episodes at least had a smidge of medicine, but not this one.

Then, we've got Abby and Susan, a couple of adult women in their mid 30's, staging a contest to see which of their coworkers got laid first?  I have worked in medicine for around 40 years, have coworkers with whom I have close friendships and never once, ever, have we ever discussed our sex lives at work.  Never.  That they thought that this was an appropriate subject for discussion anywhere, let alone at a seminar about inappropriate sexual behavior in the workplace, is mind-boggling.  I also thought that it was really telling that the show's writers had all of them, except Luka, become sexually active at a younger age than most American teens.  I'm an OB/GYN; I know about teens and sex and I can tell you that Abby, Susan and Gallant were all younger than average, too, although at least their experiences seemed to be consensual.  Most  14 year olds are not having sex in the choir loft at church, no matter what the writers think.

We also had that excruciating  scene where Abby, Queen of all that is Right and Good, condescendingly lectures Susan about how she wants to be a nurse; that she doesn't want to be a doctor and that Susan is a terrible snob for thinking that Abby would even want to go to med school. This despite the fact that Susan knew Abby had been in med school but quit due to lack of funds, not because she decided not to be a doctor.  But, apparently, Susan was supposed to have psychically ascertained that Abby really didn't want to be a doctor and the lack of money was not the reason she quit.  And, of course, completely forgot all about it when, in the near future, she returns to medical school as though it was the plan all along and graciously allows Carter to pay for it apparently as penance for ending their relationship.

Finally, since none of them seemed upset in the least when Carter told them he was molested at age 11 by a woman more than a decade older; they all needed a whole lot more than a lecture on inappropriate workplace behavior.  Anyone working in medicine, but especially in the ER, has to have training in recognizing sexual abuse, especially in children and there is no way that any responsible medical professional could think it was funny or interesting or even marginally ok for an 11 year old to be having sex with a 25 year old.  Reverse the genders; does anyone think that if Abby had said she had sex with a 25 year old teacher at school when she was 11; that any of those characters would've found that to be funny?  It was appalling that it happened and just as appalling that not a single one of them called it the crime that it was.

Edited November 12, 2020 by doodlebug

[Birdie]

48 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Reverse the genders; does anyone think that if Abby had said she had sex with a 25 year old teacher at school when she was 11;

Exactly my thinking. I thought if either of the ladies shared this info, everyone would be really concerned, and Luke would probably want to find and kill the man. Esp if it were Abby.

[Kel Varnsen]

23 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Oh, Abby isn't just a Lucy replacement, she's a Carol replacement too. It's crazy how on-the-nose it is - she comes in as a med student and muscles in on Lucy's scenes, then her ex loses her tuition money so she ends up going back to being a nurse... in the ER for some reason instead of in OBGYN, where she's worked her whole career.

Then she gets together with the broody doctor who Carol dumped when she left to be with the original version of the broody doctor. But she's also Carter's love interest, which was a role earmarked for Lucy until Noah Wyle objected.

The big part about Abby being a Lucy replacement, at least at the point I am at comes from the fact that in a season and a half Lucy got almost no backstory and seemed to have no life outside of the hospital (other than the one episode where people in her dorm OD'd). So when she died it was like all they needed was another female 3rd year med student. One with a similar sounding name seemed to make it more obvious.

10 hours ago, Birdie said:

The guy you’re dating is having an actual duel with another dude over another woman - Abby of all people. MT is not ugly, but she was not the prettiest.

The weird thing I find is that she was super cute in the first few season of Newsradio when she had that weird short 90's hairstyle. 

[readster]

3 hours ago, doodlebug said:

 

Then, we've got Abby and Susan, a couple of adult women in their mid 30's, staging a contest to see which of their coworkers got laid first?  I have worked in medicine for around 40 years, have coworkers with whom I have close friendships and never once, ever, have we ever discussed our sex lives at work.  Never.  That they thought that this was an appropriate subject for discussion anywhere, let alone at a seminar about inappropriate sexual behavior in the workplace, is mind-boggling.  I also thought that it was really telling that the show's writers had all of them, except Luka, become sexually active at a younger age than most American teens.  I'm an OB/GYN; I know about teens and sex and I can tell you that Abby, Susan and Gallant were all younger than average, too, although at least their experiences seemed to be consensual.  Most  14 year olds are not having sex in the choir loft at church, no matter what the writers think.

 

That even made even less sense. At the time of the episode, I was a good decade and a half younger than these characters. As someone who was a kid in the 80s and teen in the 90s. Honestly, if people were having sex, they weren't telling anyone, but I will guartee even in my class and so forth. The youngest was 16-17 and they were basically doing it at a parent/friend house where no adult was. Yes, you had some, including some girl who was 14 when she got knocked up in 8th grade. However... there was no: church choir, secret meeting spot going on. Basically, parents weren't home and one thing lead to another.

It was also how later when Sam showed up and explained how she got pregnant and that she was barely 14 and her ex was almost 20. Then Abby goes: "Didn't your parents say something?" Followed by: "Yeah, a lot, but he was the bad boy." I just wanted to go: "That is extremely illegal and then to think a few years before Sam came on the scene. Abby and Susan were just joking about giving the Maid a tip. Just made you go: "What, huh?" Even more as you said, if it would had been the ladies saying this, Luka, Carter and Gallant would have been grabbing torches and pitch forks. It just all screamed: "What the hell were you thinking?" Even more, why did the actors just go: "Oh, it's so silly, tee hee hee."

[doodlebug]

4 hours ago, readster said:

That even made even less sense. At the time of the episode, I was a good decade and a half younger than these characters. As someone who was a kid in the 80s and teen in the 90s. Honestly, if people were having sex, they weren't telling anyone, but I will guartee even in my class and so forth. The youngest was 16-17 and they were basically doing it at a parent/friend house where no adult was. Yes, you had some, including some girl who was 14 when she got knocked up in 8th grade. However... there was no: church choir, secret meeting spot going on. Basically, parents weren't home and one thing lead to another.

It was also how later when Sam showed up and explained how she got pregnant and that she was barely 14 and her ex was almost 20. Then Abby goes: "Didn't your parents say something?" Followed by: "Yeah, a lot, but he was the bad boy." I just wanted to go: "That is extremely illegal and then to think a few years before Sam came on the scene. Abby and Susan were just joking about giving the Maid a tip. Just made you go: "What, huh?" Even more as you said, if it would had been the ladies saying this, Luka, Carter and Gallant would have been grabbing torches and pitch forks. It just all screamed: "What the hell were you thinking?" Even more, why did the actors just go: "Oh, it's so silly, tee hee hee."

Yep. the writers for this show seemed to have the sophistication of 14 year old boys much of the time.  Much of the dialogue and storylines surrounding teens and sexuality on the show seemed like they were written from an adolescent point of view with lots of snickering at the dirty words.

[readster]

2 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Yep. the writers for this show seemed to have the sophistication of 14 year old boys much of the time.  Much of the dialogue and storylines surrounding teens and sexuality on the show seemed like they were written from an adolescent point of view with lots of snickering at the dirty words.

Yeah that was it and then having it where years later, you had lines like: "I want my life back." or "How did my life get this out of control?" Well, have people write your characters like they are 12 years old going: "Then we have this real pretty girl, but her life sucks, and she doesn't want to be happy, but secretly she does... oh um... then a gang member who is 11 is going to steal her right outside the hospital and no one is going to notice or care... and umm... yeah and make a fire in the middle of the south side of Chicago... because no police like... ever visit there... holy shit his is brilliant writing i be doing..."

[PepSinger]

On 11/7/2020 at 4:55 PM, Hava said:

Why was every male character in love with Neela? 

Hee. I had the same question. In the episode where Luka and Abby are married, she has Dubenko, Ray, and Gates going after her. Neela is pretty, but it was bordering on absurd. 

I hate that they killed off Pratt. I really started to like him once he became an attending.

Pop is on S15, and I have to say, it seems as if the show gets a breath of fresh air once Abby and Luka depart. This is my first time finishing all the episodes once Noah Wylie departs, and the show isn't completely horrific after he leaves. I just have to think of it as an entirely different show rather than as ER. However, I will say that "Heal Thyself" is a great episode, regardless of its place in the series. I really like Dr. Banfield. 

Edited November 13, 2020 by PepSinger

[debraran]

3 hours ago, PepSinger said:

Hee. I had the same question. In the episode where Luka and Abby are married, she has Dubenko, Ray, and Gates going after her. Neela is pretty, but it was bordering on absurd. 

I hate that they killed off Pratt. I really started to like him once he became an attending.

Pop is on S15, and I have to say, it seems as if the show gets a breath of fresh air once Abby and Luka depart. This is my first time finishing all the episodes once Noah Wylie departs, and the show isn't completely horrific after he leaves. I just have to think of it as an entirely different show rather than as ER. However, I will say that "Heal Thyself" is a great episode, regardless of its place in the series. I really like Dr. Banfield. 

Yes Dr Greene returns for a cameo and I got so nostalgic. I had forgotten watching it again years later he was on and it made it more special.

I might watch some of the good ER Xmas shows soon. Homeless for the Holidays and a couple of others were very good.

I would have loved a 2 hour ER special a few years later for Xmas with someone having a big charity party (Carter?) and inviting everyone and Doug and Carol come or have a cameo and Benton and the nurses and staff who left. Sad for the ones who died but they could have tied up loose ends and had some drama with comedy.  Not a huge time commitment for one show. Maybe it's good when we tie the loose ends ourselves though.  ; )

 

Edited November 13, 2020 by debraran

[Danny Franks]

I can't agree more about Secrets and Lies. It's an awful, terrible, amateurishly written episode.

Obviously they wanted to do a Breakfast Club homage, but forgot that the teenagers in The Breakfast Club act like that because they're teenagers, while the characters in ER are all thirtysomething adults with serious jobs. While the general writing of the show struggled to make a lot of characters likeable past season seven, these four are so obnoxious in this episode that, if it was the first episode I ever saw, I would never give the show another chance.

You've got sullen, spoiled, childish Carter, sensitive, writer's pet Luka (complete with a broody crewneck sweater, I seem to recall), peevish and grumpy Abby and then Susan. Susan Lewis, who was my favourite character in the first three seasons of the show, who should never have returned because the writers didn't have a clue how to write her, and Sherry Stringfield had none of the lively energy and spark left to bring. But in this episode she's an awful pastiche of a teenage girl, giggling and gossiping and generally being inappropriate and off-putting.

Anyway, I just got to the episodes in my rewatch when Chloe comes back and has her life together and... it just doesn't track. The strung out, immature junkie of season one is now this composed, put-together, sensible woman just a year later? No. It seems like the writers just decided they didn't want Susan to be a single mother so brought Chloe back to write the baby off the show.

One of my favourite little scenes in the whole show is that one where Carter is pissed at the drunk/drugged up couple and loses it with them, leading to that little heart to heart with Susan where she says "when you first arrived we thought you might be too caring to make it... We don't worry about that any more." It was such an adroitly delivered, compassionate-yet-scathing, 'I know you're better than this' line and Sherry Stringfield absolutely nailed the almost-resigned quality of it.

 

[readster]

2 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

 

Anyway, I just got to the episodes in my rewatch when Chloe comes back and has her life together and... it just doesn't track. The strung out, immature junkie of season one is now this composed, put-together, sensible woman just a year later? No. It seems like the writers just decided they didn't want Susan to be a single mother so brought Chloe back to write the baby off the show.

 

Yep only to bring her back and it was all a lie and the husband had been keeping it secret for years and was cheating on Chloe because he just couldn't keep her clean and hated living the lie. What BS.

[CrazyInAlabama]

Yes, and that awful cross over episode where Chloe disappears with the little girl, is finally found in NYC, and then disappears for good was a horrible story line.  

[debraran]

I just noticed something I never did before with Carol.  She was complaining how hard it was with twins, they need their dad, they deserve their dad to Mark . Mark said Doug saw them, it wasn’t a question It was a statement. Then someone interrupted them and the conversation ended. I, not sure how he would have without mention but maybe the writers were trying to make it seem they might have.

[RedbirdNelly]

now that the holidays are approaching I renew my request for an ER marathon of just Christmas episodes. They are almost all good. If I had more time, I would seek them out and do a brief description of each with a ranking. 

[Birdie]

Speaking of holiday episodes, I watched “Homeless for the Holidays” earlier today. I liked the friendship we start to see forming between Doyle and Jeannie (and we know Doyle later hooks Jeannie up with the lawyers who help her get her job back). And I liked Doyle and Malik’s ruse to help that abused woman escape, and how at the end we see a shot of Doyle just looking at the douchebag abusive husband passed out awkwardly in Chairs after she’s stalled to get his wife away from him.

While I liked Keaton’s ability to keep Benton’s ego in check, I find Glenne Headley’s baby-with-a-head-cold voice so grating. But I’ve never seen her in anything else. Is that her voice or an affect for the “caring, sensitive pediatric surgeon” role? And Keaton’s chemistry with Carter was there; pity they couldn’t keep GH for a bit longer.

i didn’t care for the whole story arc over several episodes with regards to Charlie. It was like watching cliche fanfic: Snarky abused streetkid with a heart of gold tugs at the heartstrings of sensitive, good-looking, leading adult male. It exists in EVERY fandom. At least they didn’t end up saddling Ross with a foster kid and go down that road as far as storylines.