All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?

[RedbirdNelly]

23 hours ago, doodlebug said:

The whole thing was  completely  nonsensical and was a waste of Ed Asner's talents.  First, remember that Carter met Asner's character when he came to the ER with blood sugar problems.  So, he was setting Carter up?  How did he know he'd be seen by Carter?  None of the other ER docs, of which there would've been dozens, was in a position to donate the kind of cash Carter could.  How did Asner finagle meeting Carter and then making sure he found out about his clinic?  Then, we have to presume Asner set up an entire fake medical clinic, complete with patients, in an abandoned building without being noticed, on the off chance Carter might turn up looking for him?  Huh?  Next, Carter gives him a pretty sizable check and he acts put out about it.  How does that work out for him?  How would that spur Carter into giving him even more dough?  Finally, he shuts the whole scam down and skips town on a moments' notice.  

The entire storyline was absurd.

completely agree--and we discussed this earlier in the thread when it was first shown (not that I expect anyone to dig that up)--I had the same question because it made no sense and at first I thought maybe I was missing some plot point where the scam would make any sense at all. I really don't know what the writers were doing there. Just weird.

15 hours ago, Camille said:

As poorly as she handled that, and not to sound crass or insensitive, Gamma was already dead and it's not as though she was ditching Carter to go on a vacation with Eric. He'd been missing for months and could very well have disappeared again had she not gone to get him. She was between a rock and a hard place.

As far as bringing him to the funeral, that was plain idiotic.

 

I agree with this--I can see feeling compelled to race after your brother who has been missing. Of course, better communication/apologies for having to go would also help. And definitely don't bring him in the car to the funeral.

It's been said several times but less Abby would have helped. There are things I liked about her character but they over did it. Smaller doses and she would have been awesome.

[doodlebug]

28 minutes ago, RedbirdNelly said:

completely agree--and we discussed this earlier in the thread when it was first shown (not that I expect anyone to dig that up)--I had the same question because it made no sense and at first I thought maybe I was missing some plot point where the scam would make any sense at all. I really don't know what the writers were doing there. Just weird.

I agree with this--I can see feeling compelled to race after your brother who has been missing. Of course, better communication/apologies for having to go would also help. And definitely don't bring him in the car to the funeral.

It's been said several times but less Abby would have helped. There are things I liked about her character but they over did it. Smaller doses and she would have been awesome.

Abby had no way to know her brother was going to be waiting for her in Iowa when, traveling from Chicago, it would've taken her hours and hours to get there and her brother was manic.  Abby should know enough about mania by that point in her life to realize how volatile manics are and that Eric could, at any moment, change his mind and leave.  Or, considering he was sitting in a diner for hours on end with no money, the management could've tossed him out.  Her brother was a missing person, police reports had been filed; dummy should've simply called the local mental health authorities and/or the police to go and pick him up and keep him safe until he could be brought back to Chicago.  Abby's actions in this situation, like most of her actions when it comes to dealing with her brother and mother, were plain old stupid and the whole plotline was as nonsensical and poorly thought out as the Ed Asner guest arc.  And, yeah, her complete inability to spend even one second listening to Carter or showing the least bit of sympathy to him after he'd been so hugely supportive of her during her family problems, was not a good look for her.  It was, however, a consistent personality trait for her.  Her emotional decompensation when Luka went to be with his sick father and her total lack of concern for him and his family, while whining and moaning and complaining incessantly about how hard it all was for her, coupled with her need to act out and cheat on him in return was consistent with the Abby who didn't give a darn about Carter's grief and brought her out of control brother to the funeral in a limo stocked with alcohol.  Passive aggressive, much? Needing to punish the men in her life when she feels they have neglected her is one of her worst character traits.

Edited July 3, 2018 by doodlebug

[debraran]

30 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Abby had no way to know her brother was going to be waiting for her in Iowa when, traveling from Chicago, it would've taken her hours and hours to get there and her brother was manic.  Abby should know enough about mania by that point in her life to realize how volatile manics are and that Eric could, at any moment, change his mind and leave.  Or, considering he was sitting in a diner for hours on end with no money, the management could've tossed him out.  Her brother was a missing person, police reports had been filed; dummy should've simply called the local mental health authorities and/or the police to go and pick him up and keep him safe until he could be brought back to Chicago.  Abby's actions in this situation, like most of her actions when it comes to dealing with her brother and mother, were plain old stupid and the whole plotline was as nonsensical and poorly thought out as the Ed Asner guest arc.  And, yeah, her complete inability to spend even one second listening to Carter or showing the least bit of sympathy to him after he'd been so hugely supportive of her during her family problems, was not a good look for her.  It was, however, a consistent personality trait for her.  Her emotional decompensation when Luka went to be with his sick father and her total lack of concern for him and his family, while whining and moaning and complaining incessantly about how hard it all was for her, coupled with her need to act out and cheat on him in return was consistent with the Abby who didn't give a darn about Carter's grief and brought her out of control brother to the funeral in a limo stocked with alcohol.  Passive aggressive, much? Needing to punish the men in her life when she feels they have neglected her is one of her worst character traits.

 

I agree, they made Abby seem strong but she was also very weak. A little less on the screen would have been better. She leaned on her background and issues as excuses, all the pregnancy talk about her fears with Luka was almost over the top, I was like "enough!". She wasn't exactly a single mother but going back to drinking then was pretty much what she was setting up with Carter, no promise to change, that whole scenario. I never thought Carter thought she couldn't fall, he's not stupid, but just a promise to reach out for help. They sort of did that with Sam and Luka, he saved her over and over but she always wanted more and didn't want to compromise, always the angst.

Except for dear Reese, (loved seeing him in last show) they also make the kids seem like they were awful,  babies, crying all the time, getting hurt, older kids getting into trouble, borderline personalities, etc.  My daughter joked "TV birth control" These intelligent nurse/doctor's acted like having a baby was such a surprise, they cry, need to eat and be changed and don't revolve around an 18 hr work day.  I love kids, have twins and a singleton but sometimes resented the resentment of the parents on the show. It just seemed "off". The writers could have been a little more realistic. I think Reese was the best and most realistic story line.

Edited July 3, 2018 by debraran

[MVFrostsMyPie]

Besides Kerry, who else had an actual planned pregnancy? 

[debraran]

9 minutes ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

Besides Kerry, who else had an actual planned pregnancy? 

hmmm...never really thought about the lack of birth control or errors. Lizzie was surprised (but happy) Sam got pregnant at 15, Carol was trying so she planned it but didn't expect Doug to take off across the USA. Abby got pregnant by accident, Susan and her sister. So I guess Carol in a way was it and Mark and his first wife but that was before the show aired so to speak.

Edited July 3, 2018 by debraran

[MVFrostsMyPie]

Not to mention Sam almost thought she was pregnant again a second time and that wouldn't have been planned. 

[doodlebug]

Far more unplanned pregnancies. Chen, Nicole (Luka), Kem (Carter). Susan and Chuck spoke about having kid before she turned up with Cosmo, so I suppose that was sorta planned.  Kerry had 2 planned pregnancies: hers and Sandy’s.  Abby had 2 unplanned, one with Richard, one with Luka.  Carla (Benton) wasn’t planned.  Carter and Harper had a scare. And, of course, there was Doug’s mysterious son that he’d never seen; I presume that wasn’t planned.  Considering Mark was still in med school and Jen wanted to go to law school; I’d be surprised if Rachel was planned.

[Dr.OO7]

Possibly Elizabeth's. She's surprised by it and when she tells Mark, she says "I know the timing couldn't be worse", but they were engaged and living together, so it's entirely possible that even if they weren't explicitly trying to conceive, they weren't not trying either.

[debraran]

My daughter who is 25 said it doesn't say much for the almost 100% birth control out there, lol and even sadder, they are all in health care. Even in later shows, no one ever speaks of STD protection for themselves which might cut down on pregnancies too.

I remember an arrogant doc back in the 80's saying he'd pop some penicillin if he was worried. I just rolled my eyes. They even had "penicillin girls" they would hit on. I remember while suppressing a gag, I thought of things his penicillin wouldn't help but he was "the doc", he'd see in time.

[debraran]

I found this trivia after watching the last show, some like Luka's name I didn't know about and Dr Green, although fresh in my mind with Carter saying it to Rachel, it didn't click it was the first thing said when show opened. ; )

"Dr. Greene" was the first AND last two words spoken in the entire show

Producers wanted the character of Carol, played by Julianna Margulies to switch from being a nurse to a doctor and even filmed episodes of her starting medical school. Margulies objected to the idea, saying that her character would be so proud of being a nurse she would never want to change, so the idea was dropped. Years later, the character of Abby, played by Maura Tierney did go from being a nurse to a doctor.

The character of Dr. John Carter was named after the protagonist in the classic "John Carter: Man from Mars" pulp science fiction stories. Michael Crichton, like many science fiction writers, considers it an early influence.

Goran Visnjic named his own character after the writers were unable to develop an appropriately Croatian name. The character is named for Visnjic's nephew (Luka) and his best friend (Kovac).

In Season 8 Episode 20 "The Letter" the faxed letter from Dr Greene followed by the fax from his wife announcing his death mimics the final scene in the 1955 movie Mister Roberts. Both characters wrote nostalgic letters to their last job/assignment. Immediately after the letters are read in both scenes it is immediately followed by another letter announcing their death. Also in both scenes the reader of the letter crumples it in their hand before they announce the bad news.

With the exception of Mark Greene's daughter Rachel, and Kerry Weaver's son Henry, all of the children born to main characters were unexpected pregnancies.

[doodlebug]

5 hours ago, debraran said:

I found this trivia after watching the last show, some like Luka's name I didn't know about and Dr Green, although fresh in my mind with Carter saying it to Rachel, it didn't click it was the first thing said when show opened. ; )

"Dr. Greene" was the first AND last two words spoken in the entire show

Producers wanted the character of Carol, played by Julianna Margulies to switch from being a nurse to a doctor and even filmed episodes of her starting medical school. Margulies objected to the idea, saying that her character would be so proud of being a nurse she would never want to change, so the idea was dropped. Years later, the character of Abby, played by Maura Tierney did go from being a nurse to a doctor.

The character of Dr. John Carter was named after the protagonist in the classic "John Carter: Man from Mars" pulp science fiction stories. Michael Crichton, like many science fiction writers, considers it an early influence.

Goran Visnjic named his own character after the writers were unable to develop an appropriately Croatian name. The character is named for Visnjic's nephew (Luka) and his best friend (Kovac).

In Season 8 Episode 20 "The Letter" the faxed letter from Dr Greene followed by the fax from his wife announcing his death mimics the final scene in the 1955 movie Mister Roberts. Both characters wrote nostalgic letters to their last job/assignment. Immediately after the letters are read in both scenes it is immediately followed by another letter announcing their death. Also in both scenes the reader of the letter crumples it in their hand before they announce the bad news.

With the exception of Mark Greene's daughter Rachel, and Kerry Weaver's son Henry, all of the children born to main characters were unexpected pregnancies.

Were we ever told that Rachel was planned?  She was born while Mark was in medical school and Jen was either in law school or wanting to go.  Not the best time to start a family.

Also, Doug and Carol's twins were planned.  We saw them talk about getting pregnant, we saw Carol doing some fertility testing.  Doug getting fired and leaving town was not planned, but, by then, she was already pregnant.

Also, as I mentioned above, Susan and Chuck talked about wanting to have a baby shortly before she turned up pregnant, so I would disagree that it wasn't planned.

[debraran]

16 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Were we ever told that Rachel was planned?  She was born while Mark was in medical school and Jen was either in law school or wanting to go.  Not the best time to start a family.

Also, Doug and Carol's twins were planned.  We saw them talk about getting pregnant, we saw Carol doing some fertility testing.  Doug getting fired and leaving town was not planned, but, by then, she was already pregnant.

Also, as I mentioned above, Susan and Chuck talked about wanting to have a baby shortly before she turned up pregnant, so I would disagree that it wasn't planned.

I agree, I think the only talk with Rachel was how his wife sacrificed more and now it was her turn. My OB/Gyn was the first woman at Yale to have a baby in residency but times have changed. Today I see many waiting, many not.

Carol's were definitely planned as we said, just not planned the way she would have liked.

Not a great track record for the group, but it did make for more drama.   I also didn't know the pediatric doc that dated Carter and disappeared was very pregnant herself and they tried to keep it hidden. I guess that was why the abrupt departure.

Another trivia piece on the basketball which I remember from back then.  The addition of the basketball hoop outside the ambulance bay at County General ended up creating a key new location for the show, but originally, George Clooney had the idea simply because he liked to shoot a few hoops to unwind between takes. He asked for the hoop to be installed on the Burbank studio lot, but it ended up in an area where it could be picked up by the camera, and so it was incorporated into the show.  I loved the scenes playing ball, lots of good conversation.

I know when someone on forum complained it took Dr Green too long to die, I said it seemed appropriate. The post that followed explained I saw it in 6 wks, they saw it back then in 2 years, 2 LONG years. That is true. Then I saw this video on Anthony Edwards take on it and he felt it was just right. I guess it's a personal thing but I'm glad it was at least a year, too much shorter would seem rushed and he deserved better.  https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/anthony-edwards-er-death-150029221.html

Edited July 5, 2018 by debraran

[doodlebug]

Looks like Pop TV is making some changes to its schedule.  No weekday ER for the rest of this week.  Next week, ER on Monday and Tuesday from 10AM until 5:30 PM.  Without a Trace, Ghost Whisperer and Beverly Hills 90210 in those slots starting Wednesday.

[debraran]

Nice, short youtube video on Eric and Noah on ER. They discuss friendship inbetween ER takes of him yelling at him (most of the time) ; )

Edited July 7, 2018 by debraran

[debraran]

This for those who don't mind the "magic" of TV disclosed, is part of "Old Times" filming.  I used CC to better understand dialogue at times.

[RedbirdNelly]

On ‎7‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 11:54 AM, debraran said:

I agree, I think the only talk with Rachel was how his wife sacrificed more and now it was her turn. My OB/Gyn was the first woman at Yale to have a baby in residency but times have changed. Today I see many waiting, many not.

Carol's were definitely planned as we said, just not planned the way she would have liked.

Not a great track record for the group, but it did make for more drama.   I also didn't know the pediatric doc that dated Carter and disappeared was very pregnant herself and they tried to keep it hidden. I guess that was why the abrupt departure.

Another trivia piece on the basketball which I remember from back then.  The addition of the basketball hoop outside the ambulance bay at County General ended up creating a key new location for the show, but originally, George Clooney had the idea simply because he liked to shoot a few hoops to unwind between takes. He asked for the hoop to be installed on the Burbank studio lot, but it ended up in an area where it could be picked up by the camera, and so it was incorporated into the show.  I loved the scenes playing ball, lots of good conversation.

I know when someone on forum complained it took Dr Green too long to die, I said it seemed appropriate. The post that followed explained I saw it in 6 wks, they saw it back then in 2 years, 2 LONG years. That is true. Then I saw this video on Anthony Edwards take on it and he felt it was just right. I guess it's a personal thing but I'm glad it was at least a year, too much shorter would seem rushed and he deserved better.  https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/anthony-edwards-er-death-150029221.html

1. I have no problem thinking Rachel was planned since they were married. It was not uncommon (was in law school myself when this ran) for married couples who were both pursing professional careers to have a baby in the midst of it. Not an easy road but people do it. I have a friend who went to law school after having twins (they were 3 when she started)

2. I loved the basketball scenes. Even Cleo was relaxed and at her best then. There is a scene of her and Mark shooting hoops and it's the best, most natural interaction she has.

3. I personally was ok with the Dr. Green timing. He wasn't dying the full 2 years. He got cancer, got treatment and then it came back. It felt right to me. I had not thought about the Mr. Roberts connection but I love that movie --I might have thought of it if someone responding by tossing at tree in the trash or something :)

[txhorns79]

In watching Season 8 again, with Carter and Susan's ill fated romance storyline, all I can think is it feels like Carter is dating his mother.  And I recognize the actors are close in age, but for whatever reason, Susan just exudes a motherly quality with him which kind of makes their romantic scenes feel wrong. 

Edited July 13, 2018 by txhorns79

[Bastet]

That's how I felt about Carter and Glenne Headley's character, and the approximately 15-year age difference and his baby face were the least of it.  He was young in both age and life experience/maturity then, and she had a maternal vibe (because of her specialty? because the actor was pregnant? because that's just how she was written/came across?  because the actor's voice inherently sounds like a parent speaking to a child?  all of the above?).  It was icky, especially when you factor in that after Bobby died, Eleanor shut down, so for most of his life, Carter did not have a warm, comforting, maternal figure in his life (he had Gamma as something of a support and confidant, but that wasn't her vibe, either) and thus it plays like that's what he's attracted to in her -- and that she's responding to the little boy in him.  That scene in her office, reading, when Benton walks in?  Feels like bedtime story time.

I didn't get that with Carter and Susan, although I paid very little attention to their short-lived whatever, but I also didn't feel it AT ALL. 

I never perceived any romantic/sexual chemistry between Susan and Mark, either.  Nor Susan with that gross greaseball she married, but that's because he's a gross greaseball.  She and Div were okay, but on the whole Susan never really sparked with anyone on the show in that way for me.  (Not that there's anything wrong with that, really, but they kept writing dynamics that didn't come across to me in execution.)

Edited July 13, 2018 by Bastet

[Dr.OO7]

49 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

In watching Season 8 again, with Carter and Susan's ill fated romance storyline, all I can think is it feels like Carter is dating his mother.  And I recognize the actors are close in age, but for whatever reason, Susan just exudes a motherly quality with him which kind of makes their romantic scenes feel wrong. 

It must be that godawful matronly hairstyle she was sporting when she returned to the show.

I liked Susan, but  now that I think about it, she didn't generate romantic/sexual heat with ANYBODY. 

[WendyCR72]

51 minutes ago, Camille said:

It must be that godawful matronly hairstyle she was sporting when she returned to the show.

I liked Susan, but  now that I think about it, she didn't generate romantic/sexual heat with ANYBODY. 

Yeah, but did anybody, really, save for Doug/Carol and Corday/Benton?

Because my grandmother (RIP) used to watch Guiding Light (yeah, the soap!) where Sherry Stringfield got her start, and I'd sometimes watch with her - and Ms. Stringfield played the femme fatale role just fine. Conversely, on there, she sparked with everyone.

And from the little I ever saw of NYPD Blue, she actually demonstrated some chemistry with David Caruso, where she played his character's ex-wife.

So I am under the assumption that it also depends on character circumstances and the writing. And while the writing was wonderful character and medical-wise, outside of the two examples above, the romances were always lukewarm, at best.

(I do agree that Stringfield had an awful haircut upon her return. That may not have helped things. Thank God she grew it out.)

[doodlebug]

1 minute ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, but did anybody, really, save for Doug/Carol and Corday/Benton?

Because my grandmother (RIP) used to watch Guiding Light (yeah, the soap!) where Sherry Stringfield got her start, and I'd sometimes watch with her - and Ms. Stringfield played the femme fatale role just fine.

So I am under the assumption that it also depends on character circumstances and the writing. And while the writing was wonderful character and medical-wise, outside of the two examples above, the romances were always lukewarm, at best.

(I do agree that Stringfield had an awful haircut upon her return. That may not have helped things. Thank God she grew it out.)

Stringfield also played David Caruso's ex-wife on NYPD Blue and had oodles of chemistry with him.  Even though their characters were divorced, you could see how they would've had a very passionate relationship at one time.

I think you've hit on something about the writing and romance.  Even Doug and Carol succeeded because of the tremendous chemistry between Margulies and Clooney; the writing for Clooney's exit and Margulies final season was fairly out of character for both of them and actually contradicted the storylines built up for them over the first 4 seasons.  If anything, Doug and Carol succeeded in spite of the writing.

Benton and Corday was done really well, but maybe its because it didn't last long enough for the writers to mess it up.

[WendyCR72]

1 minute ago, doodlebug said:

Stringfield also played David Caruso's ex-wife on NYPD Blue and had oodles of chemistry with him.  Even though their characters were divorced, you could see how they would've had a very passionate relationship at one time.

Funny, I edited that in right after I posted.  :-) But I agree.

[txhorns79]

Quote

It must be that godawful matronly hairstyle she was sporting when she returned to the show.

Yeah, it was not a complimentary look for her (and you'll notice that she quickly begins growing it out), and they dressed her in a way that made her look kind of schlubby as well. 

Quote

Corday/Benton?

Certainly they had more chemistry than the personality void that was Cleo/Peter.  I thought about it, and I realized you could have edited out the character of Cleo from the seasons she was on the show, and I think you would barely notice she wasn't there.  

Edited July 13, 2018 by txhorns79

[Dr.OO7]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

Yeah, it was not a complimentary look for her (and you'll notice that she quickly begins growing it out), and they dressed her in a way that made her look kind of schlubby as well. 

I hated that. It reminded me of how badly they dressed GH's Genie Francis when she was struggling to lose her pregnancy weight--drab colored, frumpy, etc.

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

Certainly they had more chemistry than the personality void that was Cleo/Peter.  I thought about it, and I realized you could have edited out the character of Cleo from the seasons she was on the show, and I think you would barely notice she wasn't there.  

You really could. Because her sole purpose was to be Benton's African-American girlfriend, so they never bothered to have any plan for her beyond that. I don't know why they didn't have him reconcile with Jeanie or even Carla.

[MVFrostsMyPie]

Well probably not Carla since the actress playing her essentially got fired (hence why they killed her) for being difficult, unpredictable, and didn’t have a handle on dealing with her bipolar disorder at the time. 

[txhorns79]

Quote

Well probably not Carla since the actress playing her essentially got fired (hence why they killed her) for being difficult, unpredictable, and didn’t have a handle on dealing with her bipolar disorder at the time. 

Yeah, I think she was fired from Ally McBeal at about the same time as she was killed off on ER.      

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, Camille said:

I hated that. It reminded me of how badly they dressed GH's Genie Francis when she was struggling to lose her pregnancy weight--drab colored, frumpy, etc.

You really could. Because her sole purpose was to be Benton's African-American girlfriend, so they never bothered to have any plan for her beyond that. I don't know why they didn't have him reconcile with Jeanie or even Carla.

Every now and then, they'd hint at an interesting non-Benton storyline for Cleo, but they always backed off.  Cleo had obviously been a competitive athlete in her younger days and apparently found it hard to find time for both athletics and academics.  Her mother was white and her father black.  There was lot of stuff that could have been done with her, but I don't think the actress was up to the challenge.

I think Benton and Jeannie could've worked out, but, Gloria Reubens was more invested in her singing career than acting and ended up leaving the show to tour with Tina Turner.

[Driad]

I would have been fine with a later-seasons Peter-Carla relationship in which we never saw Carla but she was occasionally mentioned.  I liked Carla at first.

[Kid]

On 6/14/2018 at 12:42 PM, Racj82 said:

When it's all said and done, Morris may honestly be my favorite ER character ever. His rise to being the heart of the ER is beautiful. I cheered all his accomplishments. I wanted the best for him. The penultimate episode may be when I finally figured it all out. How great he was with the heart transplant kids. So full of life. He was in love. So great with that little girl. I just him and Scott Grimes in the role. And i fucking hated him when  he first came on.

I had exactly the same reaction as you! I finished my rewatch last night and particularly liked him in the penultimate episode.  I was also pleased that they finally gave him an entire song to sing. I think Scott Grimes is an amazing vocalist.

While I was in the midst of watching the entire series, I had made the comment that it should’ve ended at Green’s funeral.  Now, having watched all of it I have to agree with RACJ82’s other comment from the posting that I quoted above and that was that the series was never bad it was just different after season 8.   I agree with that completely now having watch the entire thing. And I think the biggest difference was, in the first eight seasons, you fell in love with the characters immediately when they were introduced and you cared about what happened to them. You were invested in Doug, Mark, Susan, Carol and Carter from Episode 1.  I believe it was not just the individual characters but it was the chemistry of that particular ensemble.  Susan Lewis was not the same outside the original ensemble.   When I was working on my masters degree in theater at the University of Illinois, I was a character actress and I was always cast with the same woman who played ingenue characters.  We always played either mother/daughter or mother-like/daughter-like characters.  There was just a chemistry between us on stage and we were rarely cast without the other one.

After season eight, the characters had to grow on me.  I did not like Pratt when they first introduced the character. But the character grew and, when he died,  I was heartbroken.   I could not help but learn to like the character of Pratt because the actor who played him had such a beautiful smile. Every time he smiled,  his face just lit up. The character that I hated the most was indeed Morris when he was first introduced.  However, the character’s growth was organic and, by the end, I cared about him and wanted him to be happy.  He became one of my favorite characters because he never lost his goofiness which was very endearing.  But after season eight, I don’t think the ensemble was ever as strong.

All of the actors were really very accomplished and their characters became so familiar that they were like people you knew in your life.  Even the minor characters and the characters that just appeared sporadically like the head of obstetrics.  

Let’s face it, they don’t write ‘em or cast ‘em as well as ER anymore.    The show was groundbreaking and, current TV that rises to the level of ER is the exception and not the rule. In my humble opinion.

Watching ER’s entire series was like reading a good book. You couldn’t wait to see what happens next but you never wanted it to end.

Edited July 13, 2018 by Kid

[txhorns79]

Quote

Now, having watched all of it I have to agree with RACJ82’s other comment from the posting that I quoted above and that was that the series was never bad it was just different after season 8.  

The helicopter falling on Romano was just bad.  It will always be bad.  It was insulting to the audience and the character. 

Now one scene I really enjoyed was when Chen basically eviscerates Kerry while getting her job back in the ER.  First off, Chen looks incredible and acting is excellent.  You can see the fury in Chen's eyes and the how utterly lost Kerry is when she is sitting there exposed and weak.  

[Dr.OO7]

12 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

Now one scene I really enjoyed was when Chen basically eviscerates Kerry while getting her job back in the ER.  First off, Chen looks incredible and acting is excellent.  You can see the fury in Chen's eyes and the how utterly lost Kerry is when she is sitting there exposed and weak. 

I loved that. Any scene with Kerry getting a comeuppance was fine by me. With the exception of the homophobic slur, one of my favorite scenes is Dave telling her off when he quit, because not only was it everything that everyone had wanted to say for years, but she was finally getting a dose of the public humiliation she'd been doling out left and right since she joined the staff.

[debraran]

7 hours ago, Camille said:

I loved that. Any scene with Kerry getting a comeuppance was fine by me. With the exception of the homophobic slur, one of my favorite scenes is Dave telling her off when he quit, because not only was it everything that everyone had wanted to say for years, but she was finally getting a dose of the public humiliation she'd been doling out left and right since she joined the staff.

I hated that they had the ambulance sex be the last straw when just about everyone then and after did similar things. She messed up and although I can understand the mistake, you don't sacrifice people for it. The story line with Romano when she went after his job and his decline wasn't showing her in the best light either. Her best moments were when she was vulnerable but that didn't happen often.

8 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

The helicopter falling on Romano was just bad.  It will always be bad.  It was insulting to the audience and the character. 

Now one scene I really enjoyed was when Chen basically eviscerates Kerry while getting her job back in the ER.  First off, Chen looks incredible and acting is excellent.  You can see the fury in Chen's eyes and the how utterly lost Kerry is when she is sitting there exposed and weak.  

I agree, the actor could have had such good story lines after his arm was lost (like Rays legs) but they said "we ran out of options with the character' No, the writers just didn't want to write and TPTB just felt he was done.  He was sad about it but they gave him directing bits so he was still around. It was like the show went from a respected newspaper to a tabloid in one scene.

I am glad I hung in there this time around, easier watching it more often, it did get better, but never great, and I enjoyed seeing Morris become my new favorite (who would have thought!)  : ) I also loved how they slowly brought back old regulars for a visit, how Carter started and ended it and even with the same first line (but I didn't catch that without reading it first)

Edited July 14, 2018 by debraran

[txhorns79]

Quote

I loved that. Any scene with Kerry getting a comeuppance was fine by me. With the exception of the homophobic slur, one of my favorite scenes is Dave telling her off when he quit, because not only was it everything that everyone had wanted to say for years, but she was finally getting a dose of the public humiliation she'd been doling out left and right since she joined the staff.

She definitely deserved that comeuppance.  She screwed up, refused to admit it and threw someone else under the bus to cover up her mistake.  She should be glad she kept her job.    

[Kid]

12 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

The helicopter falling on Romano was just bad.  It will always be bad.  It was insulting to the audience and the character. 

I agree. I did not say the last half was perfect, I said it was good and it rises above much of what is broadcast now. Even the first eight seasons had bad moments. Not as bad as how they finished off Romano,  however.  The way they killed him off was almost a joke.

[debraran]

8 hours ago, Kid said:

I agree. I did not say the last half was perfect, I said it was good and it rises above much of what is broadcast now. Even the first eight seasons had bad moments. Not as bad as how they finished off Romano,  however.  The way they killed him off was almost a joke.

And no one even asked about him, the memorial was not how anyone would have acted in real life, especially higher ups. It was a joke, but a bad one. My only favorite part was Corday burning the generic card sent by the hospital.

[Amethyst]

18 hours ago, debraran said:

I hated that they had the ambulance sex be the last straw when just about everyone then and after did similar things. She messed up and although I can understand the mistake, you don't sacrifice people for it. The story line with Romano when she went after his job and his decline wasn't showing her in the best light either. Her best moments were when she was vulnerable but that didn't happen often.

Kerry really screwed up, and I say that as someone who liked her.  Malucci's hook up in the ambulance bay just proved too convenient a reason for Kerry to fire him.  Although, Dr. Greene pointed out that Dave was hardly the first to do that.  But Dave had enough negative infractions, which made it worse for him.  

I wonder if Kerry would have actually gotten more respect if she'd just admitted her part in the mess.  Not just to keep the others out of hot water, but for people to acknowledge that she was human.  But on the other hand, this was a major mistake, and Kerry played dumb than get dragged along with Chen and Malucci.  

[Bastet]

I like Kerry - she's one of my favorite characters (I have trouble ranking, but top three are almost certainly Corday, Weaver, and Carter) - but that storyline was not a good look for her.  Nor was it for Chen, though, who, in coming back, acted like she hadn't also fucked up.  (Malucci, meh - he could have been gone long ago, so I don't care which one of his many infractions finally sent him packing, I was just glad he was gone.)

[MVFrostsMyPie]

I didn't find Chen or Weaver to be likeable with that whole situation. Chen is probably one of my least favorite characters though. Like, even more than Abby, and that's saying a lot. 

[debraran]

Chen was kind of blandly written, her having a baby was the most depth she got, her scene with Carter then was nice. ER had "extras" like Dr Dubanko were put in to give others a story line, and sometimes wasted. I wanted to like Neela, did at times, but they made her "super doc, super lover, super woman" and it was like "gag" to me, give someone else a partner or story line ; ) I was glad back then to see a woman who was not white get a meaty role though.

Morris really grew on me after the superficial sex stuff ebbed, I remember him being embarrassed about extra nipples like no one had ever seen them before and as a doc he knows they can be removed. Maybe that was to bring some light to it, but it was during a few weeks the show was not written well. His shining moments were when he took charge and Carter noticed later how well he did and all the moments with children. He seemed very genuine and sweet. When Pratt died, you can see how it effected him and showed a lot of depth.

[doodlebug]

3 hours ago, debraran said:

Chen was kind of blandly written, her having a baby was the most depth she got, her scene with Carter then was nice. ER had "extras" like Dr Dubanko were put in to give others a story line, and sometimes wasted. I wanted to like Neela, did at times, but they made her "super doc, super lover, super woman" and it was like "gag" to me, give someone else a partner or story line ; ) I was glad back then to see a woman who was not white get a meaty role though.

Morris really grew on me after the superficial sex stuff ebbed, I remember him being embarrassed about extra nipples like no one had ever seen them before and as a doc he knows they can be removed. Maybe that was to bring some light to it, but it was during a few weeks the show was not written well. His shining moments were when he took charge and Carter noticed later how well he did and all the moments with children. He seemed very genuine and sweet. When Pratt died, you can see how it effected him and showed a lot of depth.

He really did and his ultimate romance with the detective was also cute and showed a lot of character growth.  He had some good stuff with Carter, too, like when Carter told him he set the tone when he left the ER and again, after Carter's return, when Morris saved him when he coded.  Carter's rueful, 'I'll never live this down' showed that he, too, saw what a good doctor Morris had become.

[txhorns79]

It's so interesting to see the completely different way the shows handled Carter and Abby's responses to each other's addictions.  Carter temporarily relapses by taking medication he shouldn't, but throws it up before it could take effect.   Abby, acting as his sponsor, tells him several times to tell Weaver, and eventually stops being his sponsor after he blows her off with excuses each time she asks.  Abby doesn't betray his confidence, nor does she try to force him to do anything.  

Contrast that to Carter finding out that Abby has started drinking again after she was assaulted by the husband of the abuse victim.  He immediately rats out her drinking problem (which he only found out about because they both attended AA together) to Luka, acts extremely smug with Abby and literally picks her up and puts her over his shoulder in an effort to force her against her will to attend an AA meeting.  

Now I get that a sponsor has a different duty to the person they are sponsoring than someone would have to a friend, but I thought Carter was entirely out of line in the way he acted (not to mention that for someone who was supposed to have been attending regular AA meetings for what must have been a year or so, he seemingly had no idea how to actually handle a friend's relapse.)  And I guess this is just a problem I have with Noah Wyle's acting, but he makes this face that is a mix of smugness and condescension whenever the character feels he knows best for a third party, and it is so punchable.      

Edited July 16, 2018 by txhorns79

[KBrownie]

4 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

It's so interesting to see the completely different way the shows handled Carter and Abby's responses to each other's addictions.  Carter temporarily relapses by taking medication he shouldn't, but throws it up before it could take effect.   Abby, acting as his sponsor, tells him several times to tell Weaver, and eventually stops being his sponsor after he blows her off with excuses each time she asks.  Abby doesn't betray his confidence, nor does she try to force him to do anything.  

Contrast that to Carter finding out that Abby has started drinking again after she was assaulted by the husband of the abuse victim.  He immediately rats out her drinking problem (which he only found out about because they both attended AA together) to Luka, acts extremely smug with Abby and literally picks her up and puts her over his shoulder in an effort to force her against her will to attend an AA meeting.  

Now I get that a sponsor has a different duty to the person they are sponsoring than someone would have to a friend, but I thought Carter was entirely out of line in the way he acted (not to mention that for someone who was supposed to have been attending regular AA meetings for what must have been a year or so, he seemingly had no idea how to actually handle a friend's relapse.)  And I guess this is just a problem I have with Noah Wyle's acting, but he makes this face that is a mix of smugness and condescension whenever the character feels he knows best for a third party, and it is so punchable.      

 

This is so true.  But he was smug and condescending during his own recovery as well.  He always acted so put out that Green and Weaver were following up with blood tests and meetings after he returned from rehab as if he was SO above it all.  As if they should just forget his very serious addiction and how it could and did affect his work at the hospital because it was him.

The reasoning behind Carter's seemingly bizarre actions for someone who should know how to approach a fellow addict is that at this point he is entirely motivated, not by his concern for a friend, but by his desire to one-up Luka.  He is pissed and consumed by his desire to be chosen by and desired by Abby instead of Luka.  He's pissed that Abby turned to Luka and not him after she got beat-up by the neighbor's husband.  It's not about Abby at all, it's his ego that's crushed.  Abby is no longer romantically with Luka, but she's still choosing Luka over him and he can't stand it.  The drinking gives him a reason to get in the middle of it.  The mature thing would have been to express his concerns to both Luka and Abby and back off, but he had to be right, had to be Abby's savior over Luka.  It was hilarious to watch Luka just roll his eyes at Carter and his juvenile bullshit at this point.  Luka knew, from painful experience, that trying to tell or force Abby to do something was pointless and what her reaction would be.

Edited July 16, 2018 by KBrownie
spelling

[RedbirdNelly]

random thoughts

* I liked the Mark/Susan relationship the first go around and if she'd stayed on the show, I think they could have made a good couple

* every other Susan relationship was not great to me

* I watched another Season 14 episode last night where Meretti comes back briefly and apologizes both to Abby and to Luka. Of course, Luka responds by punching him the face--physical violence may be the only consistent Luka character trait. It was annoying--though the scene was funny to watch because it really showed how much taller Luka is.

[MVFrostsMyPie]

It's interesting looking back at all the punches thrown, insults shouted, and totally inappropriate sexual advances from the men (the latter makes me so uncomfortable just watching it and makes me glad my workplaces have generally tended to be majority women).  Also, all the sex or near-sex that went on in the hospital. The HR staff would be over their heads with all the messes they'd have to clean up. 

I also like how whenever there was a social worker/chaplain/random counseling woman that was necessary to the plot, practically every patient needed a consult from that person, but as soon as their role ended, there were no patients that needed a social worker, chaplain or counselor, ha. 

[Claire85]

5 hours ago, KBrownie said:

This is so true.  But he was smug and condescending during his own recovery as well.  He always acted so put out that Green and Weaver were following up with blood tests and meetings after he returned from rehab as if he was SO above it all.  As if they should just forget his very serious addiction and how it could and did affect his work at the hospital because it was him.

The reasoning behind Carter's seemingly bizarre actions for someone who should know how to approach a fellow addict is that at this point he is entirely motivated, not by his concern for a friend, but by his desire to one-up Luka.  He is pissed and consumed by his desire to be chosen by and desired by Abby instead of Luka.  He's pissed that Abby turned to Luka and not him after she got beat-up by the neighbor's husband.  It's not about Abby at all, it's his ego that's crushed.  Abby is no longer romantically with Luka, but she's still choosing Luka over him and he can't stand it.  The drinking gives him a reason to get in the middle of it.  The mature thing would have been to express his concerns to both Luka and Abby and back off, but he had to be right, had to be Abby's savior over Luka.  It was hilarious to watch Luka just roll his eyes at Carter and his juvenile bullshit at this point.  Luka knew, from painful experience, that trying to tell or force Abby to do something was pointless and what her reaction would be.

I recall the TWOP recap of that episode making a crack along the lines of, Carter’s bitching about his drug testing was so annoying, Mark had the seizure just to shut him up.

[txhorns79]

Quote

It's interesting looking back at all the punches thrown, insults shouted, and totally inappropriate sexual advances from the men (the latter makes me so uncomfortable just watching it and makes me glad my workplaces have generally tended to be majority women).  Also, all the sex or near-sex that went on in the hospital. The HR staff would be over their heads with all the messes they'd have to clean up. 

I cringe at the stuff that both Malucci and Pratt said to Chen.  It's so grossly inappropriate that I'm surprised her storyline didn't end with her winning a huge judgment against the hospital and leaving Chicago forever. 

Quote

This is so true.  But he was smug and condescending during his own recovery as well.  He always acted so put out that Green and Weaver were following up with blood tests and meetings after he returned from rehab as if he was SO above it all.  As if they should just forget his very serious addiction and how it could and did affect his work at the hospital because it was him.

 

Yes, you want someone to shout at him: "Hey remember how these doctors are giving you a second chance after you were almost fired?"  "Remember how they didn't have to help you, but chose to do so because they are your friends?"  "Stop being an ass to them!" 

Edited July 17, 2018 by txhorns79

[RedbirdNelly]

just realized the season 14 epi I posted on was the season finale and watched epi 1 of Season 15 last night-which is when Pratt dies. I cried the first time I saw it and surprised myself by crying again. Pratt grew on me. The scene with him realizing something was horribly wrong was hard to take. And I appreciated Frank's reaction.

I forgot to add that the last episode of season 14 ends with Neela and Simon making out. So annoying. Shows need to just stop with the "2 characters hate each other and suddenly decide this is actual chemistry and make out." Simon was a complete jerk so it would have been much better for Neela to keep putting himself in his place until he stopped being Dr. Jerk.

[Everleigh]

On 7/16/2018 at 12:32 PM, KBrownie said:

This is so true.  But he was smug and condescending during his own recovery as well.  He always acted so put out that Green and Weaver were following up with blood tests and meetings after he returned from rehab as if he was SO above it all.  As if they should just forget his very serious addiction and how it could and did affect his work at the hospital because it was him.

The reasoning behind Carter's seemingly bizarre actions for someone who should know how to approach a fellow addict is that at this point he is entirely motivated, not by his concern for a friend, but by his desire to one-up Luka.  He is pissed and consumed by his desire to be chosen by and desired by Abby instead of Luka.  He's pissed that Abby turned to Luka and not him after she got beat-up by the neighbor's husband.  It's not about Abby at all, it's his ego that's crushed.  Abby is no longer romantically with Luka, but she's still choosing Luka over him and he can't stand it.  The drinking gives him a reason to get in the middle of it.  The mature thing would have been to express his concerns to both Luka and Abby and back off, but he had to be right, had to be Abby's savior over Luka.  It was hilarious to watch Luka just roll his eyes at Carter and his juvenile bullshit at this point.  Luka knew, from painful experience, that trying to tell or force Abby to do something was pointless and what her reaction would be.

 

That was my issue with the Carter/Abby thing. It was toxic and they brought out the worst in each other. Carter basically treated Abby as some sort of prize to be collected after he completed his treatment for his addiction. But Abby was with Luka at the time so Carter waited around pouting and acting like a toddler. And when he finally “won” her from Luka and it was time to collect his prize, he wasn’t exactly happy with what he got so he tried to fix her because he felt entitled to do so and she pushed back because she didn't want that and that was that. 

I don’t remember if it actually aired or if I read it online somewhere but in Carter’s "Dear Abby” breakup letter he actually writes that she didn’t need him and that’s why he was breaking up with her. He needed to be her savior to feel validated and she wasn’t able to give him that so he went to Africa to save people, which was at least putting his serious white male savior complex to good use.

Luka just let Abby be Abby. Unfortunately for Abby (and Luka), being herself was pretty self-destructive at times so they weren't without their share of problems, but at least she didn’t have a man treating her like she was some broken toy that needed to be put back together so he could play with her. 

Edited July 18, 2018 by Everleigh

[MVFrostsMyPie]

This is the content of Carter's 'Dear Abby' letter: 

 

Quote

Dear Abby,

By the time you read this letter, Luka should be safe in America and you will probably be wondering why I'm not with him. Before you go blaming yourself let me just say, it's not you, it's me - and I know even as I write this that you're going to think that's a breakup cliché, but if you could just try and hold back your judgment - and your condemnation - for a minute, maybe you will actually be able to understand what I'm trying to say. Being here has changed me in ways I never imagined. It put everything in perspective. County, Gamma's death, you. Well, me and you. We just had to work so hard at everything. Too hard, you know? When I think back on our last year together, everything appears hazy, muddled. And in the Congo, everything is very clear. People are suffering. I can help them. They need me. In a way that you don't.

You're much stronger than you think. You don't need me, Abby, and I don't think you ever really did. We both know we would work better unfettered. I think that at one point you convinced yourself that I was the right guy for you - reliable and safe, and I don't know, stable - but I don't think that that's what you really want. When we were just friends, it was safe. Maybe we even put each other on pedestals, I don't know. And then when we were finally together, it didn't become what either of us thought it would be. I didn't end up being what you expected, and you didn't end up being…sorry, I'm rambling.

I gave you as much as I could, but it wasn't enough. Clearly, there were a lot of things going on in your life that were more important, understandably. Eric's disease, your mother. Your life is complicated, and I didn't fit into that mix very well, did I? I tried to help, but then when I needed you…I don't know.

The light is dying. I don't want to waste any more kerosene.

I don't know how long I'm going to end up staying here. Don't wait for me.

I also want to say thank you. You are still one of the most amazing people I know.

Love,
Carter 

[Everleigh]

14 minutes ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

This is the content of Carter's 'Dear Abby' letter: 

 

Yes, thank you for posting. I don't recall, was the letter read or shown in the actual episode at all? Because I just remember reading it online. 

The content of the letter really shows why Carter and Abby were a disaster though. He comes off so condescending and resentful of the fact that Abby wouldn't let him save her.