Happily Ever After: Relationships Are Hard

[PixiePaws1]

6 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Th traat whole? thing was such bad writing becauslie incident really wasn't neceslying sary to motivate Hook's turnaround. We saw no reason for Regina to have known the details of the incident, and the only thing that seemed to matter to Hook was the question of who he wanted to be (and even there, the real turnaround seemed to involve him seeing Emma in danger). Now we know that's been something he's always struggled with. The father killing was way over the top, especially since they jumped through such huge story hoops to arrange it. So they wasted a bit of backstory, a character relationship that could have been interesting, and the concept of a True Love Kiss for no good reason.

While I can kind of buy someone falling in love with the voice of someone talking to him while he's in a magic coma, I still don't see how you can get True Love for someone you haven't actually met. He was basically a corpse. She didn't know anything about him other than what he looked like. If she did know how he got to that state, she had no way of knowing that he was changing from listening to her. All she could possibly have known was his appearance and maybe why he was under a sleeping curse. She fell in love with the attractive not-corpse of a criminal, someone she'd never interacted with, never even seen with his eyes open. How can that be True Love? (Not to mention, why would he even have had a nurse looking after him? They've said that a person under a sleeping curse is basically in stasis, so it's not like they'd need an ICU nurse to change the IV and other tubing, and it was his enemies who had him under a sleeping curse, so it's not like they would have hired someone to look after him and then set up a foundation to keep that care going for a century. Did this woman stumble upon a body, notice it didn't rot, and just start talking to it?)

My entire head canon for this TLK to wake Papa Hook is this:  He lied. He's a lying liar who lies. He was probably trapped in stasis somewhere because he pissed off some powerful wizard/sorceress until they died and he was freed. Then he picked up Liam 2.0 in case he needed to buy another rowboat.

[Camera One]

I was thinking about the most celebrated mother on this show, and it's sad to think that more episodes are solely dedicated to the Regina/Cora relationship than to the Emma/Snow relationship even though Cora is a guest star.

[OnceUponAJen]

I agree...I think the relationship between Emma and her parents should have gotten more of a spotlight, especially with the trust issues that Snow/MM had with Emma with regards to her magic in S4, and after she became Dark Swan in S5. For some reason, Regina continues to get most of the interaction with them. Charming "teaching" her to ballroom dance and not Emma still bugs me. That was a natural father/daughter moment that would have been nice to see.

They never seriously discussed their feelings towards Hook with Emma, although MM was very enthusiastic about their first date and David was typical overprotective Dad.  A lot of issues between them have been given short shrift or just never addressed in a meaningful way.

Edited May 8, 2016 by OnceUponAJen

[Mari]

2 hours ago, OnceUponAJen said:

 For some reason, Regina continues to get most of the interaction with them. Charming "teaching" her to ballroom dance and not Emma still bugs me. That was a natural father/daughter moment that would have been nice to see.

It would also have been remotely plausible, and caused less ridicule from the audience.  

Regina not knowing how to dance is implausible--and in a show where they physically rip out hearts to control people, Rumplestiltskin is the Beast and married to Belle, dwarves hatch from eggs . . .   etc.  For that to be the thing that's unbelievable is saying a lot.

[Souris]

OK, the Cruella/Arthur ship is inevitable. Since Arthur was a dick most of the time, I propose the ship name of Spotted Dick. British dessert humor!

[Curio]

Now that Outlaw Queen seems to be officially done, can someone please explain to me what was the point of Season 4? Like, seriously. What was the point of Operation Mongoose? What was the point of Page 23? What was the point of paralleling Robin and Regina to both Snowing and Captain Swan in the alternate universe? What was the point of having Tinkerbelle confirm their soulmate status in Season 3? Why did we all have to suffer through Season 4 for nothing?!

[FierceAfroChick]

2 minutes ago, Curio said:

Now that Outlaw Queen seems to be officially done, can someone please explain to me what was the point of Season 4? Like, seriously. What was the point of Operation Mongoose? What was the point of Page 23? What was the point of paralleling Robin and Regina to both Snowing and Captain Swan in the alternate universe? What was the point of having Tinkerbelle confirm their soulmate status in Season 3? Why did we all have to suffer through Season 4 for nothing?!

I think at that point, they were desperately trying to make the romance epic and exciting...unfortunately, it didn't work.  

[Curio]

1 minute ago, FierceAfroChick said:

I think at that point, they were desperately trying to make the romance epic and exciting...unfortunately, it didn't work.  

Desperate seems to be the key word here. There were numerous times where the writers gave Robin and Regina blatant parallels to Emma/Hook and Snow/Charming, but they usually fell flat. Hook and Emma share rum together? Robin and Regina share whiskey. Emma and Hook climbed a beanstalk together and Hook slowly tried to break down Emma's walls by asking about her son and her past? Robin and Regina go on their own adventure and Robin breaks down Regina's walls by asking about her son and her past. Snow and Charming are this show's original true love couple and their Enchanted Forest adventure is iconic? Regina plays Bandit Snow's part in the alternate universe and falls in love with Charming-Robin who's unfortunately betrothed to another woman. Emma and Hook have a classic scene where he bandages her cut hand? Robin helps bandage Regina's cut hand.

Why include all of those True Love parallels and set the relationship up for two years if they were just going to pull the plug in the end? It wouldn't bother me as much if it had been a one-year story arc, but dragging Regina and Robin out for so long makes it all seem rather pointless in hindsight. There isn't even hope for Regina to meet up with Robin in heaven during the series finale since he's completely wiped from existence. It might have been nice to see Regina go the rest of the series without a love interest and maybe make a heroic sacrifice during the series finale where she could see Robin waiting for her as she entered the light, but...nope.

[Rumsy4]

22 minutes ago, Curio said:

Why include all of those True Love parallels and set the relationship up for two years if they were just going to pull the plug in the end? It wouldn't bother me as much if it had been a one-year story arc, but dragging Regina and Robin out for so long makes it all seem rather pointless in hindsight. There isn't even hope for Regina to meet up with Robin in heaven during the series finale since he's completely wiped from existence.

Yeah. The whole thing is weird. I too am the most resentful about S4. We had to endure the absolute mess that was Operation Stupid, and now what was the point?? I guess it was Regina realizing at the last minute that Robin was only part of her Happy Ending or whatever. I absolutely hated Outlaw Queen in S4, but in S5 I had come to accept it. It's not like Robin was more than background scenery anyway. But I think it's the ultimate insult to have him be completely obliterated like that. Come on!! If anyone deserved that fate, it might be Hades. But Robin? There is no hope of even his kids being able to reunite with him in the Afterlife. Why not just say something like the Olympian Dildo would send mortals into the River of Souls? At least the fate of those Souls was left open-ended with the Souls changing their behavior after Hades' death, and Arthur planning to set Underbrooke right. OR say something like his soul would bypass Underbrooke and go straight to the place of eternal rest, to explain why Regina is not leading a campaign back to the UW.

Do Robin and Regina even love each other? It seemed like they did, but the writers never had them confess it to each other. And they had barely any scenes together in 5B. The writers both wanted Robin's death to be impactful and not impactful at the same time. I suppose they want it to be just impactful enough to make Regina jealous over Emma, but not so impactful that they can't introduce a new Love Interest for Regina right away. Whatever, Show...

[YaddaYadda]

Complained about OQ in life, complain about OQ in death. I think the first mistake was to make their fairy dust certified. 

I think it was a mistake to introduce a love interest for Regina so soon. This is clearly something done to reset her.

Regina's next love interest if there is one, my friendly advice is...RUN!!! Fast and far.

[Shanna Marie]

I think a big problem with Robin and Regina is that they didn't really have anything organic that was theirs. It was a relationship built out of copying moments from other relationships, without any really iconic moments that were theirs alone that grew out of their own relationship. Even in season 4, which was supposedly their "fighting to be together" arc, didn't involve them doing any fighting. He caved pretty quickly at any obstacle and flip-flopped, and her fighting for him was making a phone call and going to New York. Then they discovered that the obstacle between them didn't exist, after all. That's not exactly a journey to the Underworld and going through a True Love trial only to fail and think they've lost it all.

Since the writing for Regina is to basically just hand her whatever Emma has without the work and development Emma has to go through, I'm counting on Robin just showing up back in town sometime next season as a way to resolve the next arc, for no real reason other than some offstage handwaving about the way he died and Zeus giving him another chance.

[Camera One]

Unless the fandom convinces A&E and they change their mind, I don't think there is any plan to resurrect Robin Hood.  They can only pull that trick so many times.  The whole "soul ceases to exist" was intentionally done to rule out any possibility of Regina going to save Robin.  I can see one guest appearance episode (or more likely, if it's like Neal, one guest appearance scene), where Robin's soul re-forms and he gets to move into the Light, but that is it for him, I think.

Though A&E might have underestimated the fury so maybe they'll cave... who knows.  I don't think they *want* to cave, though.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Camera One

[Mathius]

11 hours ago, Souris said:

OK, the Cruella/Arthur ship is inevitable. Since Arthur was a dick most of the time, I propose the ship name of Spotted Dick. British dessert humor!

Yeah, I definitely see it being the sort of "enemy sexual tension" sort, with Cruella and Arthur fighting over control of the Underworld yet at the same time indulging in some flirtation.  We'll probably never see it on the show, but it's good fanfic fuel. 

Edited May 9, 2016 by Mathius

[FierceAfroChick]

I do find it interesting that people are using the "Regina has suffered so much" argument when talking about losing Robin.  Other than Daniel's death, how has she really suffered compared to...oh...let's use Emma.  You know, the chick who lost a potential love interest, two men she loved (and both of them at least three times), lost her parents, went to jail, gave up her baby, grew up in foster care, got eaten by the Dark One curse, etc?  I mean, I can sympathize with Regina (a smidge), but really, I need examples of how she's suffered so horribly.

And then someone included Graham in her losses and I'm like, didn't she murder him though?

[tennisgurl]

1 hour ago, FierceAfroChick said:

And then someone included Graham in her losses and I'm like, didn't she murder him though?

Yeah...that is bullshit is someone is saying that. Unless it was some kind of uber dramatic mercy killing, or a "Buffy kills Angel to save the world" kind of thing, you are not allowed to be upset about the death of a person you murdered! After enslaving him and raping him for years! But whatever, I am trying really hard to get over that, if I am ever really going to get on the Regina bandwagon this show requires me to be on. 

Robin and Regina were a mess from day one. They never had anything in common, they never seemed to really connect, and they just never seemed to be a real couple to me. Hell, I even buy Belle and Rumple more as a couple, as horrible and abusive and creepy as their relationship is. At least I get why they liked each other in the beginning. The lack of emotion from Regina after the death just screams of a lack of interest in this couple, or in Robin as a character. I get they were going for shock, and they couldn't have Regina fall down into hysterics while there was still PLOT going on, but come on. A few pretty tears for the supposed love of her life dying for her, then losing his spot in the afterlife? This makes it seem like she hardly even loved him at all, despite everything that has happened, and all the time wasted on their "epic" love story. What a waste of a classic character. 

[Shanna Marie]

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

Unless the fandom convinces A&E and they change their mind, I don't think there is any plan to resurrect Robin Hood.  They can only pull that trick so many times.  The whole "soul ceases to exist" was intentionally done to rule out any possibility of Regina going to save Robin.

Regina Exception Clause. If they decide they want to give her soulmate back to her, they'll find a way, and it would fit the pattern of giving her everything Emma gets, but quicker and easier. And it will be treated as a reward for her rather than because of having anything to do with him.

Not that I'm saying this will happen, but it does fit their pattern, and I wouldn't be entirely surprised if we spend half a season with her mourning him, and then the payoff is him showing up.

[RadioGirl27]

1 hour ago, FierceAfroChick said:

I do find it interesting that people are using the "Regina has suffered so much" argument when talking about losing Robin.  Other than Daniel's death, how has she really suffered compared to...oh...let's use Emma.

Yeah, and not only Emma. Snow, Hook, Charming, hell, even Zelena and Rumple, all have suffered more than Regina (and with this, I'm not saying that Regina hasn't suffered, just that there are other characters that have had far worse lives). But this is what the writers are trying to sell us, and many people has bought it completely. The "oh poor Regina, noone wants to eat her lasagna" has been the writers' motto since season 2.

[TheGreenKnight]

I do feel sorry for Regina right now, because her True Love died in front of her. I would never say she's suffered more than the others, it just comes off particularly awful when you consider her whole storyline really began with the death of Daniel and now it's happened again (and after she had to go through all the relationship melodrama in season 4 just to be with Robin at all).

Edited May 9, 2016 by TheGreenKnight
Word repetition.

[Curio]

I wonder if the show will ever address the True Love vs Soulmate debate. I know the writers said they don't really see a difference between the two, but after this Robin fiasco, I could see them backtracking on that.

[Serena]

I read the post-mortem Sean interviews and he seems to hint he wouldn't be up for coming back even if they asked. Could the Regina Exception Clause have found its big roadblock?

[Camera One]

I read the post-mortem Sean interviews and he seems to hint he wouldn't be up for coming back even if they asked.

While it was true, he was pretty blunt when he said if the writers didn't explore Robin's character while he was on the show, there's not much they could do in a flashback.  I really don't blame him, I guess.

[Shanna Marie]

Thinking about this soulmates vs true love thing, in light of recent events ... I've generally considered that "soulmates" was a destiny kind of thing -- people who were meant to be together, who were made for each other. That's where the insta-love comes in. When you meet the right person, sometimes you just know and everything clicks. I've known couples like that in real life, where I was there when they met, and I could tell even then that this was for real and would last (and most of them have). True love is something you create, that grows on the basis of what you do for each other and how the other person affects you (or a twenty-minute conversation). True love is more likely to grow between soulmates than between non-soulmates, but being soulmates isn't required. On the other hand, it might be possible that soulmates might not develop true love because the circumstances were wrong or they can't get over their own issues (like Rumple clinging to his power).

The problem with both on this show is that they've been used as shortcuts to avoid having to actually write a relationship. Robin and Regina never struck me as soulmates, no matter how much pixie dust was thrown at them. Soulmates, to me, would be the kind of couple who are kindred spirits, who are best friends in addition to being in love. They like doing the same things, have common interests and values, are on the same wavelength, finish each other's sentences. I don't recall Robin and Regina having a single conversation that wasn't about their relationship. They generally seemed to be on totally different wavelengths and had very different priorities. They didn't even like living in the same kind of place. He was more at home in the woods and she likes her physical comforts. I've seen more connecting and interacting in promos for The Bachelor. I still don't see how that adds up to being soulmates, unless whoever's doing the cosmic matchmaking is really bad at it.

[Curio]

I feel like Robin's death creates even more questions between him and Regina. Why was he drawn towards a rich person when that's exactly the type of person he stole from? Why did they never discuss living together in the giant mansion? Why did Robin insist on living in the woods? Why didn't they ever discuss what Regina did to Marian that was so "monstrous"? Why didn't Robin speak up sooner about how he didn't like Regina siding with Zelena over him? Why didn't Robin talk to Regina about donating some of her excess riches to the poor? Why wasn't there some kind of jealousy from Regina over the fact that Snow and Robin might actually have more in common with their thieving/archery/bandit-on-the-run pasts? Why weren't Snow and Robin able to bond at all with a fun archery scene?

The more I think about it, maybe the writers have always been setting Robin up for a demise all along. I'm pretty sure Grumpy has gotten more characterization that this.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Curio

[didia]

They should have played the opposites attract each other troope with Robin and Regina. Let them have conflicts. If they didn't know how to write for Robin, they could have used Sean's personality. I know it is used to exaustion but usually works. Maybe a fun,  passionate Robin Hood would've worked better.

[Rumsy4]

35 minutes ago, Curio said:

I feel like Robin's death creates even more questions between him and Regina. Why was he drawn towards a rich person when that's exactly the type of person he stole from? Why did they never discuss living together in the giant mansion? Why did Robin insist on living in the woods? Why didn't they ever discuss what Regina did to Marian that was so "monstrous"? Why didn't Robin speak up sooner about how he didn't like Regina siding with Zelena over him? Why didn't Robin talk to Regina about donating some of her excess riches to the poor? Why wasn't there some kind of jealousy from Regina over the fact that Snow and Robin might actually have more in common with their thieving/archery/bandit-on-the-run pasts? Why weren't Snow and Robin able to bond at all with a fun archery scene?

Someone pointed out that even Stealthy seems more fully realized than Robin ever was!

[Rosiejuliemom]

8 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

I think a big problem with Robin and Regina is that they didn't really have anything organic that was theirs. It was a relationship built out of copying moments from other relationships, without any really iconic moments that were theirs alone that grew out of their own relationship.

To be fair, Robin and Regina do have one relationship moment that is theirs and (hopefully) theirs alone. As far as we know, no other couple on the show has had crypt sex. It may not have been organic, but it sure as hell sticks out as a memorable Outlaw Queen moment.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

To be fair, Robin and Regina do have one relationship moment that is theirs and (hopefully) theirs alone. As far as we know, no other couple on the show has had crypt sex. It may not have been organic, but it sure as hell sticks out as a memorable Outlaw Queen moment.

"Memorable" or "Notorious"? Perhaps "Infamous"? ;)

Edited May 10, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Rosiejuliemom]

1 minute ago, KingOfHearts said:

"Memorable" or "Notorious"?

 

[Curio]

So are we seriously supposed to accept that Zelena and Hades were a True Love couple when she obliterated him from existence 24 hours after their "True Love" Kiss?

[Camera One]

Even the dialogue contradicts it.

REGINA: Robin died to protect me.  That's what true love is.  It's sacrifice.  It's giving up everything for the person you love.  But Hades won't give up a single thing for you.

ZELENA (dials phone): Hello, TLK Control Center, is that true?  

[Rumsy4]

Hades/Zelena seemed to parallel Rumbelle in the episode and the previous one. I find it hard to buy Zades was ever True Love, but let's take that for granted for an instant. The message seems to be that you can start with True Love, but it can degenerate quickly into selfishness. Since Zelena was the one to end Hades, could this foretell that happens with Rumbelle? 

[Shanna Marie]

I've been thinking about the Robin and Regina relationship and how it could have been fixed to work. There's one issue that I don't think I could ever get past, which was that she was responsible for him losing his wife. Zelena may have been the one to kill Marian in the second timeline, but Marian was still separated from her family because Regina took him prisoner. It's all kinds of wrong for someone to kill a person and then end up with the widower. I don't think I could buy that relationship even if it had been an accident -- if Regina had been texting while driving and ran over Marian, or even if she'd swerved to miss a dog and accidentally hit Marian instead. I just can't believe that a man could get past the fact that this person had imprisoned and was planning to execute his wife enough to be in love with her, and I don't see how a good person would be able to bear to be with the widower of someone she'd killed/planned to kill. Anyone with a conscience would have recoiled in horror the moment she realized she was responsible. Regina kind of did, but then she ended up back with him. Even Marian being dead for good by other means shouldn't have changed that. I just can't imagine learning that I was the one responsible for causing so much pain to someone I cared about (as discussed in that fireside picnic) and not having that constantly on my mind when I was with him. It would be a total mood killer. I doubt it's what the writers intended, but it seems to me like karma kept trying to assert itself because it's just wrong for Regina to actually profit from her own evil in that way.

But if that was changed, if, say, Emma had met Marian in Rumple's dungeon, the problem is that this Robin isn't really Robin Hood, and they never took advantage of that. But what if we'd seen flashbacks in which he was being a total thorn in her side, if she was ranting and raving about yet another royal coach being robbed and he was out using her jewels to feed villagers, but they hadn't met in person and he'd only seen her in the distance, so he mostly knew her by the crazy outfits -- and then they met in Storybrooke and he didn't recognize the Evil Queen in Regina Mills, and she didn't recognize this guy as Robin Hood? And then if they'd used the soulmates thing in a different way, where they were inexplicably drawn to each other even while initially hating everything about each other -- him challenging her, her being derisive of him, but then they gradually got to know each other and found some kind of common ground (not sure what that would be, other than great sex, since we never learned what they had in common or even liked about each other). Anyway, a relationship between Robin Hood and an Evil Queen should have been all kinds of fun and exciting rather than "here, Regina, here's a cardboard cutout of a man to stand beside you." Robin was basically her HOV lane dummy.

[Camera One]

The pairing was problematic right from the beginning.  
- There was telling us the soulmate connection instead of organically and gradually showing them fall in love
- There was Robin Hood having full knowledge of The Evil Queen... being from another realm would have helped, if his first exposure to Regina was her saving Roland
- Robin never shown to have second thoughts about Regina's murderous past, never dealing with it, calling Regina on it and how she is making amends/showing remorse - he wasn't allowed to teach her anything.  He only cheered her on when she was feeling down, in a way which minimizes what she did as "bold and audacious".  That is not a human response and completely unrealistic.

THEN, we add on to that the 3B reveal that Regina imprisoned Marian and might have killed her and Robin's complete lack of reaction/knowledge of the details; and then Robin being completely NOT torn when Marian was iced; and then Crypt Sex, etc.

The problems just went on and on.  And then the whole Zelena/rape thing happened and Robin had a 5 second reaction and that was it, before being off-screen for much of 5A/5B.  It was poorly handled all round.

Edited May 11, 2016 by Camera One

[RulerofallIsurvey]

1 hour ago, Shanna Marie said:

I don't see how a good person would be able to bear to be with the widower of someone she'd killed/planned to kill. Anyone with a conscience would have recoiled in horror the moment she realized she was responsible.

I think you solved your own dilemma right there.  :)  

Edited May 11, 2016 by RulerofallIsurvey
pay special attention to the bolded parts in reference to Regina

[Rumsy4]

48 minutes ago, Katherine said:

I think Regina might end up single. A & E seem to have taken the criticism about Emma and Regina's stories revolving around their boyfriends to heart. This was one of the main reasons I suspected they were going to kill Robin. Hook and Emma will end up together, but they'll make Regina single to show that they know women don't need a man to have a happy ending. They pride themselves on writing strong female characters, so I think it really does get to them when people argue that Regina and Emma became weak after getting boyfriends.

They likely know that most of the criticism about Emma's and Regina's stories revolving around boyfriends is ship-related, so I doubt that led them to kill of Robin. I feel that the writers had more interest in writing for Rebecca Mader/Zelena, and they finally decided to cut their losses by killing off Robin, as the pairing never really took off + they lost interest. 

I seriously doubt the writers will leave Regina single at the end of the series. However, I can imagine that to be the case for Zelena.

Edited May 13, 2016 by Rumsy4

[Camera One]

If they change their mind, it's not hard to give either Regina and Zelena a sudden love interest.  Remember people can fall deeply in love in less than 20 minutes.

[Mari]

They don't even have to talk.  Or, well, at least only one of them has to talk.  Ask Hook's dad.  

[Camera One]

Riding a bike together and falling off provides an instant love connection.  Within an hour, you could be giving each other pet names like your town of origin.

Edited May 13, 2016 by Camera One

[Katherine]

1 hour ago, Rumsy4 said:

They likely know that most of the criticism about Emma's and Regina's stories revolving around boyfriends is ship-related, so I doubt that led them to kill of Robin. I feel that the writers had more interest in writing for Rebecca Mader/Zelena, and they finally decided to cut their losses by killing off Robin, as the pairing never really took off + they lost interest. 

I seriously doubt the writers will leave Regina single at the end of the series. However, I can imagine that to be the case for Zelena.

The writers definitely realize the criticism is ship-related, but I think they still take it to heart and want to prove it wrong. So I think the decision to kill Robin was a combination of "this character isn't very popular" and "it's a way to prove we can write strong female characters without boyfriends" and "it will make this vocal group of SQ shippers happy". I know Swan Queen shippers are a minority of the general audience, but IMO Adam and Eddy really do want to please them. That's why we continue to get the Regina/Emma friendship. Of course, the hardcore SQ fans won't be satisfied with just a friendship or with Regina ending up single. But IMO, Adam and Eddy figured killing Robin might pacify them to a degree. I don't think they anticipated it would backfire like it has.

I also agree that Regina's happy ending will be about self-love and acceptance, but I think the acceptance is more based around the Charming family. I think in the end, they'll go with the message that she had everything she needed all along. Being evil didn't get her a happy ending and it didn't take it away; it was there all along. She just needed to learn to appreciate it. That being said, I wouldn't be shocked if they do give Regina another love interest. For now, though, I'm leaning toward them leaving her single, especially if the show only has one or two seasons left.

[Dianthus]

I've never considered Regina a Strong Female Character. She's a bully, but at the same time she's like this quivering ball of neediness and insecurity.

[KingOfHearts]

3 hours ago, Camera One said:

Riding a bike together and falling off provides an instant love connection.  Within an hour, you could be giving each other pet names like your town of origin.

Oz is apparently the land of instant romances. (See: Oz the Great and Powerful)

Edited May 13, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

Um, that's not true at all.

Snow came to Regina and told her her deep, dark egg-napping secret in 4B and Regina kept it.

Snow and Regina were constantly working together in Storybrooke in 5A.

And Snow and Regina interacting was the entire catalyst behind Snow ditching the Mary Margaret persona in 5B.

I forgot about the egg-napping secret. (Mostly because it didn't amount to anything.) I guess they had that small scene in 5B where Regina says, "We need Snow White", but I wouldn't exactly call that bonding. It was incredibly brief. I don't recall the two of them getting many scenes in 5A. They were mostly group scenes with David or Emma.

Edited May 14, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Mathius]

Quote

 I guess they had that small scene in 5B where Regina says, "We need Snow White", but I wouldn't exactly call that bonding. It was incredibly brief.

Yeah, but at the end of the episode Snow talks about how she used to be more of a risk-taker and that "an old enemy reminded me", and she and Regina share meaningful smiles, with Regina voicing approval for her going back to being called Snow White.  It was a bonding moment.

I like Regina and Snow reconciling and growing closer in theory, but in practice it's been a mess, particularly when it's constantly looking like Snow cares more about Regina than about her own daughter (The absolute nadir of this trend would be when Snow didn't budge an inch when Emma was being taken by the Darkness...yet two episodes later, risked her life to save Regina when she was being taken by the Fury.)

Edited May 14, 2016 by Mathius

[KingOfHearts]

1 minute ago, Mathius said:

Yeah, but at the end of the episode Snow talks about how she used to be more of a risk-taker and that "an old enemy reminded me", and she and Regina share meaningful smiles, with Regina voicing approval for her going back to being called Snow White.  It was a bonding moment.

If that's considered a bonding moment, I would include Emma hugging Snow in 4x20.

[Mathius]

2 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

If that's considered a bonding moment, I would include Emma hugging Snow in 4x20.

That was a bonding moment too.  The issue there was that it wasn't earned, since Emma had been completely stubborn and not forgiving her parents up until that point, then all of a sudden the bonding moment happens and it's all better.  They should have had Emma slowly start to come around before then, instead it all just happened at once.  That kind of switch-flip writing for characters happens alot on this show.

Edited May 14, 2016 by Mathius

[Camera One]

They are consistently not willing to devote any time to the Emma/parents relationship.  It was clear they created the whole character-assassinating babynapping retcon solely for the suspense/conflict/surprise! factor, because Emma didn't even get more screentime with Snowing for it.  5A was perfect for Emma/parents, but Snow got more screentime with Lancelot and Charming got more screentime with Arthur, than they got with their own daughter.  Emma and Snow hasn't gotten a "Breaking Glass" type full-out episode adventure with just the two of them since 2A.  

And then A&E congratulate themselves constantly in interviews about the Regina/Emma and Regina/Snow pairings.  It is beyond frustrating.

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1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

 guess they had that small scene in 5B where Regina says, "We need Snow White", but I wouldn't exactly call that bonding. It was incredibly brief. 

They were adventure buddies in 5.13. I definitely think they bonded. "You defeated me in a way no one thought was possible. You made me your friend by never giving up on me." Regina to Snow in Labor of Love.

[Rumsy4]

Regina and Snow have bonded way more than Emma and Snow in three seasons. They have actual conversations that is for more than two sentences. For this Show, that's a lot! 

[Camera One]

On this show, the most treasured relationships are between victim and the person who attempted to assault or murder them.  There is so much BFF potential.  The latest was Hook and Arthur, and of course our usual favorites Regina/Emma and Regina/Snow.  And let's not forget victim and kidnapper relationships.  Belle/Rumple is the star, but there's also Belle/Merida.  It also works with one degree of separation, like Robin Hood and the true love who murdered your wife in one timeline.

Edited May 14, 2016 by Camera One

[Mathius]

There's also Hook/Belle (though it's thankfully more low-key), Regina/Charming (she nearly killed him several times yet he still teaches her how to ballroom dance), and hey, we even get a reconciliation between Rumple and Milah!  And then he goes and essentially kills her again!

Edited May 14, 2016 by Mathius