Happily Ever After: Relationships Are Hard

[Rumsy4]

Robin is such a stand up guy with a flawless code of honor.  Was it supposed to be ironic when he told Emma she's the only sheriff he's willing to help (or whatever dumb thing he said to her).  I mean after all, aren't Prince John and Nottingham bold and audacious as well?

 

Did he even bother thanking Emma and Hook for saving Marian's life? Oh, that's right. He's actually sorry that they did. They should have left her to be beheaded by Ms Bold and Audacious.

 

At the same time, they think they're writing a successful forbidden, possibly tragic, romance for their favorite character.

 

I agree. But having Robin confess his love to Regina every time they have a scene together makes it so squicky. Regina didn't even look like she cared for him in either scene. 

[Mari]

Why do it in THIS way? Isn't it obvious people hated the David Nolan/Mary Margaret affair in s1? Why copy it, only without the curse excuse, the benefit of the flashbacks and much, much worse chemistry?

 

This is what I don't understand. Why have Marian be Regina's victim at all? Why couldn't Emma save her life from like, a careening carriage or something? That way, Regina is completely a victim of circumstance and you don't get the icky "Robin's in love with his wife's murderer" dynamic.

 I think because of a couple of reasons--first,A&E do not seem to make the mental connection between "Evil Queen Regina" and "Mayor Regina".  They could not resist having Evil Eyes Regina melodramatically flounce about as much as possible, and needed a way for Marian to die. Why should Mayor Regina suffer from something Evil Queen Regina did?  It's not like she's responsible, or anything.

 

Well, yes, the audience hated David/Mary Margaret/Katherine.  But we were supposed to hate that;  that was icky.  This triangle is different--it contains Regina!  and her forbidden love!  and it's not being presented as icky, like David/Mary Margaret/Katherine was. 

 

I'm not sure A&E even see the parallels they're setting up.

[FabulousTater]

I don't feel sorry for Regina at all, and I definitely feel she deserves to suffer, but thing is, this type of suffering is completely unsatisfying! It's soapy, contrived and infuriating. Worse, it's boring. I'd want her to confront all the people she has hurt, while they're appropriately enraged. I'd want her to lose her magic, her eternal crutch. I'd want for Henry to realize just how much she has abused him. Not Robin being all conflicted between his wife and his wife's murderer.

Ya, it is pretty unsatisfying, but because of The Regina Perma-boner it's all we're ever going to get. Does anyone here honestly think that Regina will ever pay, in any measurable way, for anything she's done? No, she sure as hell won't. Regina will never pay for anything. I think that's been made more than abundantly clear by the writers. And plus, they've also taken it further by establishing that she's not the one that needs to apologize, it's her victims that are unworthy of her! (murder, rape, and abuse,according to these writers, are no worse crimes than minor traffic violations). This telenovela Mary Sue drama queen "suffering" will always be the total extent of Regina's misery because true consequences aren't something that's allowed by The Regina Perma-boner. And if that's gonna be the case, I'll take my kicks where I can. If all we're gonna get of Regina getting the business end of karmic justice is this idiotic soap drama, then fine, I'll take it. I'd rather she be strung up by her thumbs or thrown into a deep, dark, dank, roach and rat infested dungeon for all eternity, but we're never gonna get that. So, it is what it is...unsatisfying but at least something.

Edited November 3, 2014 by FabulousTater

[Shanna Marie]

The way they're handling the Robin and Regina stuff reminds me of that meme that was going around a while ago that showed what various other people think I do, what I think I do, what I really do.

 

What they seem to think they're showing us is essentially the Mary Margaret/David/Kathryn situation from season one, with Emma cast in the role of Regina, spitefully keeping the Destined True Love couple apart by bringing in his wife, who's barely his real wife and they're obviously not meant to be because they don't even really love each other, and due to the Life Ruiner's interference, everyone is miserable. The wife is stuck with a husband who doesn't really want her and then gets endangered (partially due to the Life Ruiner, since DQ is doing all this stuff to get to Emma), the husband is conflicted (though Robin and Regina are clearly superior to David and Mary Margaret because they're not cheating), and the people who belong together because of their deep love are being kept apart.

 

Except the writers seem to have selective memories and are entirely unaware of what they're doing and don't expect us to remember that this kind of triangle did happen before, only that time it was Regina deliberately trying to keep Mary Margaret and David apart by bringing in his wife. And Mary Margaret and David were really married to each other and the wife was fake, with Regina giving them all fake memories to make them suffer. And the wife was endangered by Regina arranging her death in order to frame Mary Margaret.

 

So it just comes off as really strange when we're supposed to be seeing Regina as all good and noble and taking the high road while she doesn't seem to have any self awareness that she's going through what she deliberately put other people through and when we're seeing Emma beg for forgiveness and friendship without any memory that Regina did this to her parents -- and that's one case where we know Emma knows what Regina did. She knows that Regina was framing Mary Margaret, and she knows that they had fake identities from the curse, with Regina manipulating the situation to keep them apart.

 

So the way they see it is that Robin and Regina are suffering so nobly because they're being tragically kept apart in spite of their great love while being honorable about it. And what we're seeing is him being a jerk and her still being clueless.

 

Oh, and bonus points to anyone with graphic skills and time who wants to try to create one of those memes about the relationship or about Regina.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Shanna Marie

[Rumsy4]

I would hope that my husband would thank the person/people who saved me from death. He doesn't have to break down and get down on his knees, but a nice thank you or an offer to buy them dinner would be thoughtful. We have Emma acting conflicted and guilty because of how it impacted Regina, but what about Robin and Roland. Maybe she should know that they are grateful (even if Robin is a jerk - excuse me conflicted).

 

Robin thanking Emma and Hook for saving Marian's life would have been a nice scene before the Ice Cream outing. Although it would have been even grosser when Robin confessed his love for Regina. I too am scratching my head as to why they made Marian one of Regina's would-be victims, when they refuse to address it at all? 

[stealinghome]

So the way they see it is that Robin and Regina are suffering so nobly because they're being tragically kept apart in spite of their great love while being honorable about it. And what we're seeing is him being a jerk and her still being clueless.

And again, despite the mitigating circumstances, the show actually called David Nolan out on being a jerk to both Kathryn and Mary Margaret. Whereas apparently Robin is "noble" and "honorable" or wtfever.

[Mari]

And again, despite the mitigating circumstances, the show actually called David Nolan out on being a jerk to both Kathryn and Mary Margaret. Whereas apparently Robin is "noble" and "honorable" or wtfever.

Well, Marian is kind of vanilla, and Robin has to manage to resist Regina.

 

That takes special willpower.

 

Also, it's not like David Nolan was cursed to only think he was married to Kathryn, or anything.

[Joanh23]

Yes I need to see some reaction from Robin to the fact that Regina did kill (or nearly killed) Marian in the past - what was the point in showing it in the first place if it's not going to go anywhere. I was worried about this storyline from the start and nothing I've seen so far has made me more confident about it.

[Camera One]

This is what I don't understand. Why have Marian be Regina's victim at all? Why couldn't Emma save her life from like, a careening carriage or something? That way, Regina is completely a victim of circumstance and you don't get the icky "Robin's in love with his wife's murderer" dynamic.

 

Yes I need to see some reaction from Robin to the fact that Regina did kill (or nearly killed) Marian in the past - what was the point in showing it in the first place if it's not going to go anywhere. I was worried about this storyline from the start and nothing I've seen so far has made me more confident about it.

 

I don't understand it either.  You'd think they wanted to play up Regina *finally* realizing her actions have consequences and showing regret for past actions in hindsight.  But noooooo, we've had zero of that.  Regina even said, "So what, she was going to die anyway" or something to that effect in Season 4 Episode 1, and we still have not seen any change from that attitude.  

 

So maybe it was just for expediency.  They needed to have Emma imprisoned in Regina's castle to watch Snow's execution, and it was easier to have Marion be there too.  Bonus points since this method provided the opportunity for another delicious performance from The Evil Queen being bold and audacious with the peasants.  Technically, you'd think Emma's feelings towards Regina would have changed with the fireball at the stake (Emma could have seen Snow "die" in a different way unrelated to Regina), but all she wants now is to be her friend.  So nothing has any point.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

 

I don't understand it either.  You'd think they wanted to play up Regina *finally* realizing her actions have consequences and showing regret for past actions in hindsight.  But noooooo, we've had zero of that.  Regina even said, "So what, she was going to die anyway" or something to that effect in Season 4 Episode 1, and we still have not seen any change from that attitude.

 

I got no clue what they're doing with Regina this season. In the beginning of 4x01, it was #KillMarian. Then she saw the clip of the Evil Queen, then decided that was too much like her former self. Then at the end she decides the book is the cause of her suffering, thus getting the author will fix all the problems and unicorns will fall from the sky. Now whenever Marian finds herself tied to the railroad tracks, she comes to save the day. For the next few episodes, she keeps herself reserved minus Henry and the occasional snark to Emma. Breaking Glass comes along and she goes all-out psycho jerk suddenly, pretty much erasing any growth she's had prior in S4. Now we're at Family Business, and Regina tells Robin to flip off. One minute she's gotten over him, then the next she's staring at a picture some stalker took of them kissing. It's confusing.

 

With all that in mind, what the heck are they trying to accomplish? Redeem her? Reunite her with her forbidden love? Get her happy ending through an inanimate object? I just don't get it.

Edited November 4, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[KAOS Agent]

I don't understand why Regina would be interested in a relationship with him at this point. I mean, his reaction to this entire situation would put me off. She's being the grown up here, but she's being so normal about it. Why on earth hasn't she told him to step off in less than pleasant terms? Even meek Mary Margaret eventually told David to get lost. Robin is a terrible boyfriend/husband. He runs off chasing his "mistress" while sticking with the wife due to "honor". What the hell is honorable about loving and chasing after another woman? Honor in this case dictates he should either leave his wife, so that she can be happy with someone else or ditch the new girlfriend. Maybe he needs to have a chat with Hook about what constitutes good form. 

 

In a sadistic way, I kind of enjoy the fact that Regina's soulmate sucks so much (karma and all that), but I also really love her when she's in fine form and sticking her with Robin just makes the black hole of victimhood they've got going with her that much worse. Couldn't they do better than this for a love interest?

[KingOfHearts]

 

In a sadistic way, I kind of enjoy the fact that Regina's soulmate sucks so much (karma and all that), but I also really love her when she's in fine form and sticking her with Robin just makes the black hole of victimhood they've got going with her that much worse. Couldn't they do better than this for a love interest?

The idea of one of Regina's victims coming back to life and ruining her new relationship sound great on the drawing board. But, like almost anything on this show, the execution totally felt short. A&E are the masters at providing perfect opportunities for development, then totally bypassing them.

 

I'd like to see Regina get a villain or dark gray character as a love interest. Someone closer to Jafar or Hans. They could be rivals/lovers, scheming between family meals.

Edited November 4, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[scarynikki12]

Regina's line last night about Robin falling in love with Marian again reminded me of something the wonderful Julia Sugarbaker once said on Designing Women.  For those who don't know, Julia's husband died prior to the series and she has a present day boyfriend.  The scene and line that came to mind last night was during the episode where Bill is pulling away from Charlene because he's realized he loves her and feels very guilty as he feels like he's betraying his late wife, Nancy.  Julia calls him and asks him to come see her at Sugarbaker's (which is also her home).  They talk about her late husband, his feelings for Charlene, the overwhelming grief, the guilt of moving on and, near the end of their conversation Julia recounts something her boyfriend Reese once told her about her guilt over moving on from her late husband Hayden:

 

"He said '...Julia Sugarbaker you just keep all the memories and pictures of Hayden McLeroy that you want to because, quite frankly, I don't think I'd want to be with a woman who tried to stop loving her husband just because he died."

 

That scene was meant to get Bill to see that he could love Charlene without feeling guilt about his late wife and that he didn't have to hide those memories and feelings from her but it's really relevant to Robin's characterization vis a vis Marian.  Her return should have brought quite the emotional turmoil for him.  His late wife, whom he loved deeply, whom he would have done anything to get back, actually comes back!  The joy should have staggered him.  It also should have confused him since he was moving on with Regina and had real feelings for her.  The reveal that Marian was taken from him and Roland because of Regina should have infuriated him, even if he was unable to instantly turn his romantic feelings off.  Just from a character perspective, and leaving out his obvious nonchalance at dating the Evil Queen in the first place, this should have been great for Sean.  There's quite an assortment of emotions and reactions that should have been there for the taking for him so he could prove that maybe Robin does have a spot in the over all story.  Instead, we have Robin actively trying to stop loving Marian and succeeding.  Even when he tried True Love's Kiss* he had to brace himself before the attempt.  Him falling for Regina and not caring that she was responsible for Marian's imprisonment and execution is just salt in the wound after that. 

 

*I hope Marian finds her REAL True Love when she gets unfrozen.  I don't know who that would be but she deserves so much better than Robin Hood.

[Shanna Marie]

This is what I don't understand. Why have Marian be Regina's victim at all? Why couldn't Emma save her life from like, a careening carriage or something?

In a weird, ironic way, I think this is the reason Regina didn't kill Marian and is trying to take the high road with Robin. Regina did actually seem to have a moment of self-awareness when she saw her past self. That was when she stopped the "Marian must die!" routine. Of course, that self awareness hasn't transferred to anything else or changed her attitude (because we can't have that), but it does seem like she's kind of trying to atone for Marian. If Marian had just been run over by a carriage, with nothing for Regina to feel guilty about, I suspect that Marian would have soon been conveniently run over by a car, with Regina having a rock-solid alibi, and Regina would have taken the "it's fate, and see, Miss Swan, you can't save someone from fate" approach.

 

But as is the usual case with this show, they didn't think it entirely through, and while they came up with a reason for Regina not to kill Marian, they didn't think about how it would make Robin look if he was still in love with and had no qualms about his wife's murderer. And it gets really tricky if the reason a person is being good in the present is because she was so evil in the past.

[Camera One]

In a weird, ironic way, I think this is the reason Regina didn't kill Marian and is trying to take the high road with Robin. Regina did actually seem to have a moment of self-awareness when she saw her past self. That was when she stopped the "Marian must die!" routine. Of course, that self awareness hasn't transferred to anything else or changed her attitude (because we can't have that), but it does seem like she's kind of trying to atone for Marian.

 

I don't think they've really made that explicit enough.  She changed her mind after Marion said to her past self "if you had a family of your own, if you had love, you wouldn't do this".  Was it self awareness?  Was it remembering Henry and what he wouldn't approve of?  Was she just continuing to try to be a better person after her initial irrational reaction?  Was she holding back from evil for the sake of Henry? Robin?  Herself?  Was it because she knew she couldn't lie her way to a happy life with Robin if she killed Marion?  Was her conscience coming back?  With these writers, it's impossible to tell.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Camera One

[KAOS Agent]

For a show that tends to hit its viewers over the head with a sledgehammer with what it's trying to say, the Regina situation being so ambiguous is very odd. I can't help but think it's meant to be confusing. The Operation Mongoose storyline is obviously going nowhere until 4B or at least until the very end of 4A and if they made it clear what the hell Regina was really after, it takes a lot out of the story too early. It's just such a blatant attempt to make Regal Believer a thing (and once again takes something special from Emma/Henry). That it has completely assassinated Henry's character is ignored. His yay Dead!Marian attitude is baffling as is Regina's lack of concern that her son would have this attitude. In spite of her evil ways and as annoyed as she was that his beliefs undermined her rule, Regina has always been proud of how good and pro-heroes Henry is. Regina aspires to be a hero herself even though her lack of awareness and selfishness constantly get in the way of that, so you think she would show some concern about his changing belief structure. The Regina/Henry dynamic is really quite messed up at this point and the really silly book storyline is making it worse.

[MDKNIGHT]

To be above board I must first admit that I really like Regina despite the fact that I agree that she has done unfrogiveable things and that in real life she should be doing life without possibility of parole.  Still as writen in the past few eps it really says something that Regina is coming out as being head and shoulders a better person than Rumple.  Rumbelle makes my skin crawl while Regina doing her best to save Marion shows a lot of improvement.  So despite everything, in my opinion Rumbelle has run away with the most disfunctional couple award and Outlaw Queen is only creepy on the Outlaw side.  Regina has somehow managed to slide in front of 3 people mental health wise and how sad is that?  NOBODY should be more wackadoo than the Evil Queen.  She may also be less crazy than the Snow Queen but this is the relationship thread.  Although I could argue that the Snow Queens pathological need to be in a 3 chick family is about relationships too and it IS nuts. 

 

I would love it if Mirror Belle switched places with Belle and went toe to toe with Rumple verbally.  I would love for truths to really smack him in the face.  That is because nobody will ever do me the curtesy of ACTUALLY smacking him in the face unfortunately.  Watching Belle beg Rumple for forgiveness is just hard to watch.  Reminds me of abuse victims blaming themselves for the abuse.  I really need Belle to snap out of it.

[Souris]

For a show that tends to hit its viewers over the head with a sledgehammer with what it's trying to say, the Regina situation being so ambiguous is very odd. I can't help but think it's meant to be confusing.

 

Sometimes TPTB seem to think they make things clear on the show, when they really don't.

[Jean]

 

That is because nobody will ever do me the curtesy of ACTUALLY smacking him in the face unfortunately.  Watching Belle beg Rumple for forgiveness is just hard to watch.  Reminds me of abuse victims blaming themselves for the abuse.

Oh gee whiz, deja vu moment here. What does this sound like? Oh 4x05 with St. Anchor Victim and Emma? Snow in the majority of the scenes with the leech? Henry? The writers are repeating themselves? Color me shocked.

 

At least besides Belle, no one is walking around kissing Rumple's ass. And the writers and Robert know that Rumple is screwed up most of all. They also aren't calling Belle a life ruiner at the top of their lungs, every chance they get either. I appreciate the turn. I can watch Rumbelle now that in show it's acknowledged that it's a messed up relationship. Before this, when they were trying to present it as pure shiny true love, that was trash. Maybe they'll go back to the whitewash but for now it's heading in the right direction. I think they've decided to move Belle a bit closer to the dark side vs what they were trying to do in seasons past with trying to move Rumple over to the good side. It'll be interesting to see how far they'll take her. And no A&E, Eva's brand of "THE EVIL" isn't what I'm talking about.

[Camera One]

Or they'll have Rumple make *another* sacrifice, and everything will be A-ok again.  

[KingOfHearts]

 

Still as writen in the past few eps it really says something that Regina is coming out as being head and shoulders a better person than Rumple.

Yeah, Rumple isn't exactly supposed to be better. I still consider him a villain, through and through. With Regina, she's supposedly redeemed or close to it. We're coming off a season that included True Love's Kiss, Robin Hood as a love interest and super light magic. Really, she should be much further along in her self-awareness than she is now. I admit saving Marian is a growth point, but if Regina's redemption has lasted over two seasons, that step should have already been taken a long time ago.

Edited November 5, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

I don't think they've really made that explicit enough.  She changed her mind after Marion said to her past self "if you had a family of your own, if you had love, you wouldn't do this".  Was it self awareness?  Was it remembering Henry and what he wouldn't approve of?  Was she just continuing to try to be a better person after her initial irrational reaction?  Was she holding back from evil for the sake of Henry? Robin?  Herself?  Was it because she knew she couldn't lie her way to a happy life with Robin if she killed Marion?  Was her conscience coming back?  With these writers, it's impossible to tell.

That's the problem. They didn't make it clear, and it hasn't translated to other areas of her life. I do think that seeing herself in the mirror was the turning point between "Marian must die! I will find a way to kill her and not get caught!" and helping save Marian's life, and I don't think the same transition would have been made if Regina hadn't been linked to Marian in the past, if Marian had just been run down by a runaway carriage or imprisoned by Rumple. But you'd think that this moment of self awareness, of seeing herself as a monster, would have changed other attitudes. If she was afraid that Marian was right and she wanted to be better, would she be talking about deserving a happy ending and forcing the author to write her one? Would she still be blaming Emma for ruining her life and heaping all that abuse on her (which wasn't much better than the way she treated Marian)? They gave her a huge turning point but compartmentalized it so that it only applied to her relationship with Robin and didn't affect the rest of her life.

 

Watching Belle beg Rumple for forgiveness is just hard to watch.  Reminds me of abuse victims blaming themselves for the abuse.

Yeah, that was rather sickening, with her talking about not deserving him while he knows how badly he's deceiving her.

 

Was it my imagination or did they use a different take of the "I trusted you!" moment in the promos than they used in the episode? He sounds much angrier, more hurt and more emotional in general in the promo than he did in the episode, where he was rather low-key and more sad than angry.

[Curio]

From the episode thread:

I think they enjoy the playful banter [Hook and Emma] share whenever they're on their latest adventure together but frankly they wouldn't have the slightest idea what to do with them if they ever become a real couple.

 

What's the definition of a "real couple," though? With the way Hook and Emma are behaving right now (hanging out together all the time, going on dates, kisses on the cheek, hand holding, etc.), they essentially are boyfriend and girlfriend. It's just that neither one of them have officially put a title on it yet. So in that case, the writers actually have been writing for them as a real couple for the past couple of episodes already. 

Edited November 5, 2014 by Curio

[Anakerie]

I will be shocked it this doesn't end up with Belle learning the truth and then immediately discovering she's up the duff. In which case, she's really screwed because she's seen what Rumple does when it comes to his offspring.

[MDKNIGHT]

Oh I agree.  She'll be preggers and he'll get another chance to be a dad.  And she'll forgive him again.  I kind of wish she'd cross him, try to keep the baby from him and then FINALLY saw what a monster he is but that will never happen.  He is her Beast and so regardless they are meant to be.  She will believe that he is a good person and that that goodness will be front and center for the new baby.  If we're lucky he'll give up magic for a week to prove what a great dad he is.  It is to the point that I would settle for Belle just acknowledging that he is stone cold evil even if it doesn't change anything.  Just so that she doesn't look like such a moron. 

[Anakerie]

Do we know yet if people can leave town now without losing their memories (I mean, once the ice wall, flying monkeys, evil clowns, and whatever other plot contrivencew they come up with are gone)? Because if they can, then Belle needs to book it over the town line the moment that little stick shows a plus-sign. Drain Rumple's bank account, raise the kid in Tibet or somewhere where he can't find them. Their future child is better off shaving yaks for a living. I mean, little Dumbella is pretty well sunk anyway with Belle as a mother:  at least spare them Daddy Warlock. 

[Camera One]

Don't give them any ideas about the Evil Clowns.  I doubt the writers even know the answer to that question at this point.  The Ice Wall is a way to completely avoid the question until it becomes relevant to their storytelling.

[KingOfHearts]

 

 

Wild guess? Because no truly decent guy would woo a mass murderer and call her actions "bold and audacious".

A slug for a slug.

I'm alright with Regina having a slug, but I'd want it to be someone's supposed to be a slug. Robin Hood was never at any moment a match of Regina, even back in 3A before they even met. If they're going to give her a love interest, it has to be someone who isn't expected to care about morals or tyranny. But because the irony sounded so juicy, we're stuck with a "hero" dating a villain, and it doesn't mix. Regina can date a total psycho, and that's fitting, (In fact I'd love to see that...) but Outlaw Queen was just a bad idea from the start. If a character is going to get assassinated, let it be someone no one cares about. Like Hans.

 

It's another example of the writers touching an icon they shouldn't be, and for the wrong reasons.

Edited November 6, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

They should've put Regina with King George.  Then we could call them Regina George.  Just me?

[FabulousTater]

There has to be more satisfying ways to reprimand Regina than have Robin's whining suck 5 minutes out of the episode. In fact, it's actually gives Regina the higher ground because she now has a valid reason to blame him for something. It really does little to increase her suffering.

But the writers don't want to reprimand Regina. They don't even think she's done anything wrong so why would they want to reprimand her? The fact they set Woegina up with an iconic good guy, a guy whose story is based on fighting a tyrant no less, makes it very plain to me that the writers are fully immersed in the delusion that Woegina is "good" and a "hero". And by making Robin Hood come off as the jerk in this situation they use him to artificially thrust Regina into higher levels of martyrdom. For the writers, Wretched Hood is merely a stepping stone in furthering their delusion of how victimized Woegina has been, how unworthy everyone is of even her friendship because see, see how "noble" she's being in this situation. The writers are just furiously polishing Woegina's halo with this story line. That's all it's meant to do.

 

Since the writers will never have Woegina pay for her crimes (instead they take pleasure from having Regina verbally eviscerate Emma and snark at Snow, because in the writers' eyes Emma and Snow had it coming -- and btw that will never not be a dinosaur sized pile of steaming crap ), I will take what tiny bit of delight I can from the fact that at least Regina's miserable. It's an itty-bitty amount of karmic justice in comparison to what's due to Regina, but I'll take it. 

 

I think a far more entertaining "love" story for Regina would be if she'd just gone back to being full on evil and gotten involved with a fellow villain and they went around like some evil villain super couple trying to kill everyone and not giving two shits about "redemption". She's a murdering sociopath, writers. Embrace it, own it! I think that would've been hella fun to watch and at the very least we would've been rid of Woegina the Soul Sucker. 

 

But that's never going to happen because they are hell bent on giving Regina her "redemption" story and it's worse than the rotten, decaying garbage that you'd find at the bottom of landfills.  They are rabid and zealously intent in their mission of (undeservedly) labeling Regina a hero and inscribing her name in the annals of heroic martyrdom with the blood they're squeezing out of viewer's eye balls by putting this eye-gouging suckfest on our screens.

Edited November 6, 2014 by FabulousTater

[RadioGirl27]

I'm alright with Regina having a slug, but I'd want it to be someone's supposed to be a slug. Robin Hood was never at any moment a match of Regina, even back in 3A before they even met. If they're going to give her a love interest, it has to be someone who isn't expected to care about morals or tyranny. But because the irony sounded so juicy, we're stuck with a "hero" dating a villain, and it doesn't mix. Regina can date a total psycho, and that's fitting, (In fact I'd love to see that...) but Outlaw Queen was just a bad idea from the start. If a character is going to get assassinated, let it be someone no one cares about. Like Hans.

 

It's another example of the writers touching an icon they shouldn't be, and for the wrong reasons.

Outlaw Queen is an afterthought, and just another example of A&E obsession for giving to Regina everything they have previously given to Emma. Emma has a love interest, Regina has to have one too. Emma's love interest is an iconic character like Captain Hook, Regina's has to be someone as iconic as he is. And, because they are obsessed with twists and surprises, of course the Evil Queen's soulmate had to be someone heroic. So they just choosed Robin Hood, a well-known, loved and charismatic hero, without thinking it twice.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I will take what tiny bit of delight I can from the fact that at least Regina's miserable It's an itty-bitty amount of karmic justice in comparison to what's due to Regina, but I'll take it.

I just don't find as much pleasure in it, but that's just me personally. :)

 

 

I think a far more entertaining "love" story for Regina would be if she'd just gone back to being full on evil and gotten involved with a fellow villain and they went around like some evil villain super couple trying to kill everyone and not giving two shits about "redemption". She's a murdering sociopath, writers. Embrace it, own it! I think that would've been hella fun to watch and at the very least we would've been rid of Woegina the Soul Sucker.

 

This I totally agree with 100%. The fact Regina is a murdering sociopath is probably her greatest quality as a character, if you think about it. I find that side of her to be the most entertaining to watch. "Poor Regina Can't Catch a Break" is one of the most boring mute-your-TV moments of the show... which was pretty much half of 4x01. That's probably why I don't find the punishments for Regina all that fun to watch, because they're always setup to where the audience is supposed to sympathize with her. This stuff with Robin is no different, imo.

 

 

Moreover, they are making it clear that Robin doesn't want Marian to be alive, and that Roland doesn't know his mother. So that's another strike against Emma. I bet when Marian is unfrozen, she too will lecture Emma that she was wrong to save her life. This arc, which I was hoping would be where Regina learnt that there were consequences to her actions, is only continuing the Regina-deification process.

 

Welcome to the Triangle of Doom. You may check out, but you may never leave.

 

It's ironic that even though Regina's character causes so much trouble to those around her, she really does little herself. It's how the writers write everyone around her that creates the black hole.

Edited November 6, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

Quote: "Since the writers will never have Woegina pay for her crimes (instead they take pleasure from having Regina verbally eviscerate Emma and snark at Snow, because in the writers' eyes Emma and Snow had it coming --"

Moreover, they are making it clear that Robin doesn't want Marian to be alive, and that Roland doesn't know his mother. So that's another strike against Emma. I bet when Marian is unfrozen, she too will lecture Emma that she was wrong to save her life. This arc, which I was hoping would be where Regina learnt that there were consequences to her actions, is only continuing the Regina-deification process.

[Curio]

Am I the only one who's not 100% sold on Robin/Regina being endgame? I don't know. Just with the way they've completely butchered the love triangle story line, destroyed Robin's character, and the fact that this series probably has at least another 2-3 years left in it...I could see the writers pulling a "huge twist" where Regina doesn't end up with him this season. Or maybe that's just my wishful thinking at this point.

[Rumsy4]

Am I the only one who's not 100% sold on Robin/Regina being endgame? I don't know. Just with the way they've completely butchered the love triangle story line, destroyed Robin's character, and the fact that this series probably has at least another 2-3 years left in it...I could see the writers pulling a "huge twist" where Regina doesn't end up with him this season. Or maybe that's just my wishful thinking at this point.

 

It's possible that Robin and Regina don't get together this season, especially if/when Marian dies towards the end of 4B. Unfortunately however, I do think they are endgame. It took them three seasons to introduce a present-day love-interest for Regina who was also not her rape-victim, and I don't see them creating another sap who thinks Regina is bold and audacious, after all the "work" they put into OQ. 

Edited November 6, 2014 by Rumsy4

[KingOfHearts]

 

It's possible that Robin and Regina don't get together this season, especially if/when Marian dies towards the end of 4B. Unfortunately however, I do think they are endgame. It took them three seasons to introduce a present-day love-interest for Regina who was also not her rape-victim, and I don't see them creating another sap who thinks Regina is bold and audacious, after all the "work" they put into OQ.

I'm kind of hoping Robin dies a tragic, "romantic" death. That way OQ shippers don't feel as cheated, and we never have to see his face again. (Except for tribute flashbacks, a la Neal) Even if he got back with Marian, I'd still be mad because I know what kind of guy she'd be stuck with. If Roland weren't in the picture, he'd be a lot easier to remove from the show.

 

 

 

The problem with Woegina and all her "relationships" is Woegina. She's the lowest common denominator. Giving her a new character or love interest isn't going to improve anything. All it will do is give her another character to destroy.

The crux of the problem is they frame everything around her so that she is either the victim or the saint.

 

Well my point, from a couple posts back, is that it's not Regina's actions that normally cause the Black Hole of Woe. It's the writing. It's the fact the showrunners consistently throw everyone else under the bus to accommodate their Mary Sue agenda. Regina wasn't egging Robin on - the writing set that up. Regina didn't call for Henry to be her relationship counselor - the writing did that. No matter what anyone does, including Regina herself, we get these bias worshiper dynamics. It's one of show's biggest problems.

Edited November 6, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Jean]

The problem with Woegina and all her "relationships" is Woegina. She's the lowest common denominator. Giving her a new character or love interest isn't going to improve anything. All it will do is give her another character to destroy.

 

The crux of the problem is they frame everything around her so that she is either the victim or the saint. That's what every story's purpose is, to make her either a bigger victim than biggest victim ever already or make her a saint. If they're feeling particularly good that day, she gets to be both. And it always has to be all about her. Put her in any scene with anyone and it's always The Woegina show guest starring cardboard props. Doesn't matter who it is. No one is spared from her soul sucking black hole. She's the worst screen partner to have, the Mary Sue. There should be another term for her level of Mary Sue-dom actually. A&E take it about 100 levels above anything I've ever seen. It's beyond bad fanfiction. We're talking cult levels of worshipping here and I'm not being the tiniest bit sarcastic.

[stealinghome]

charismatic hero

Someone forgot to tell the casting department and writers this bit, because Maguire and the writing team have made Robin Hood as dull, uninteresting, and lifeless a cardboard character as is possible.

[Lieutenant]

At this point, I don't have a clue what Regina even sees in Robin.  I mean, what's the attraction?  You "love" him because fairy dust told you to?  Because he tells you what you want to hear, and never really pushes you out of your comfort zone, or calls you out on your BS, or forces you to grow/mature/change in positive ways?  Is it because he's easy on the eyes, and a pushover?  What is it?!  I find him repugnant.  He's certainly not acing in a loving manner to this woman he claims owns his heart.  Isn't love supposed to consider the other person and what their requests and needs are over your own?  Regina has repeatedly told him to GO AWAY, to forget her, to move on with his life and his family (whether or not that's what she truly desires is beside the point).  Is he respecting that?  No.  He keeps turning up like a bad penny, crying about how he just can't let her go, everyone else effected by the situation be dammed.  "Help me, Regina.  Tell me what to do, Regina.  I just want to be with you, Regina.  I'm so conflicted, Regina..."  I mean, gods dammit - ACT LIKE A MAN, take responsibility for yourself, take action, and MOVE ON already!  Everything about him just makes me see red and want to punch him in the face.  He just such a coward, and it's extremely distasteful, imo. */end rant*

 

Maybe that's why I love Hook and Emma so much.  Here's a guy whose life has certainly not been easy, and who obviously loves Emma deeply.  He puts her first.  Whatever lifts her up, encourages her, helps her grow, etc. he does.  He listens to her, and does what she requests (usually, lol) - even if it costs him emotionally.  In Neverland, she told him and Neal on no uncertain terms that she didn't have time for their crap.  What'd Killian do?  He backed off, didn't bring it up again, and in fact, removed himself from the situation entirely, because he knew that Henry and Emma just might find that family relationship again if they had a chance to make it work with Neal.  He calls her out on her issues, but never presses to the point of overbearing.  He puts her safety above his own, even when it hurts physically or emotionally.  And he acts like a MAN about it, takes responsibility for everything he does, lives his life, and lets the chips fall.  If there's one think Killian isn't, it's a coward.

 

[FabulousTater]

This I totally agree with 100%. The fact Regina is a murdering sociopath is probably her greatest quality as character, if you think about it. I find that side of her to be the most entertaining to watch.

IKR. One of the best bits from Regina's Enchanted Forest flashbacks are when Regina's total lack of self-awareness is on full display and she's moaning about why, oh why don't the villagers (that she's been killing and terrorizing) like her, and Rumple is like "maybe because you go around killing them, *dumbass*??? Just a thought..." And the comment goes completely over her head and she keeps right on with her killing. (You can't tell me that someone who sees no connection between murdering and terrorizing people and them not liking you doesn't have serious mental issues. That's straight-up certifiable )

 

Had the writers embraced the murdering sociopath that Regina is and had her go totally bananas evil, I think it could've stayed interesting. She wouldn't be the character/show sucking void that she is now, and I don't think they would've needed to invent a villain for every half season to push along the plot lines.  Sure they could've had one or two villains show up to conspire with her, or against her, or "diagonally" or whatever, but the point is that the show wouldn't have to be reliant on what are becoming progressively contrived ways for villains to pop up into the show (for a whole 9-10 episode then disappear like nothing happened). But, no. No, instead the writers allowed all the blood in their heads to go to The Permaboner. The most problematic relationship on the show is the one between Woegina and her deluded crazy stalker like worshippers, the writers.

Edited November 6, 2014 by FabulousTater

[Shanna Marie]

I've reached the point where I don't even like using the name "Robin Hood" for That Guy because he bears zero relationship to the real deal (any version, even Kevin Costner) and just sullies the name.

 

I have to hope that he and Marian didn't get around to talking about what happened to her or that he doesn't have any inkling that the timeline has actually been changed and Marian was executed in the other timeline because otherwise it's really gross that he's still so hung up on Regina that he can't love his wife enough to break a curse. Seriously, Robin Hood can't dredge up enough love for Maid Marian because he's hung up on the tyrant who would have executed her. Even if they weren't an iconic folklore couple, that would be sick. It's like something you'd find in an episode of CSI or Criminal Minds, where someone becomes so warped that he falls madly in love with the woman who kidnapped and murdered the wife he was previously willing to walk through hell for.

[FurryFury]

I'm all for it, as long as it happens off-screen. Robin's basically unredeemable for me at this point.

[stealinghome]

Because he tells you what you want to hear, and never really pushes you out of your comfort zone, or calls you out on your BS, or forces you to grow/mature/change in positive ways?  Is it because he's easy on the eyes, and a pushover?

Yeah, at this point, I have to conclude that this is exactly what Regina sees in him. Which, imo, does a disservice to both characters.

[Rumsy4]

The main problem is that the writers don't want anyone calling Regina out on her shit. That's why Robin is completely okay with Regina having terrorized his wife and that she had in fact killed Marian in another timeline. He calls her "bold and audacious", and doesn't care about her past. Her enslavement of Sidney is considered as minor backsliding that the "good guys" are supposed to overlook. Otherwise, they are unforgiving and will be held responsible for how unloved and friendless Regina is.

They didn't develop Robin and Regina's relationship (even as a friendship) in the Missing Year, because it would take away from their point that Regina was unable to find any real happiness without Henry.

The same way, they don't want it to appear that Regina would be Robin's second choice. That's why they have Robin fall in love with Regina after two dates, completely stop loving his wife, and keep chasing the "other woman" when his wife lies in a frozen coma.

If they weren't so afraid of people perceiving Regina as anything less than a perfect woman, who has been continually victimized by the so called "good" guys, they wouldn't write such a horrible romance for her. Even Marian's return is only a vehicle to push her status as a long suffering martyr who does the Right Thing in the face of tremendous adversity.

[Mari]

The main problem is that the writers don't want anyone calling Regina out on her shit. That's why Robin is completely okay with Regina having terrorized his wife and that she had in fact killed Marian in another timeline. He calls her "bold and audacious", and doesn't care about her past. Her enslavement of Sidney is considered as minor backsliding that the "good guys" are supposed to overlook. Otherwise, they are unforgiving and will be held responsible for how unloved and friendless Regina is.

. . .

If they weren't so afraid of people perceiving Regina as anything less than a perfect woman, who has been continually victimized by the so called "good" guys, they wouldn't write such a horrible romance for her.

What I find really frightening is how well it's worked--I've seen fans angry that Sidney "betrayed" her.

[KingOfHearts]

 

The main problem is that the writers don't want anyone calling Regina out on her shit.

My big question to the writers is... why? Is it just because they love her snark and fashion sense? I don't understand why they're trying so hard to victimize her, for not only a set of episodes, but multiple seasons. If they're writing her to be sympathetic well at all, they shouldn't have to constantly be hammering it into our brains. Long close-ups of her tears shouldn't be required if their writing is as convincing as they supposedly believe. It's got at least some people feeling sorry for her, so I don't get why they need to assimilate everyone else.

 

 

What I find really frightening is how well it's worked--I've seen fans angry that Sidney "betrayed" her.

 

All the fans chanting that Marian needs to die greatly disturbs me.

Edited November 7, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Dani-Ellie]

If they're writing her to be sympathetic well at all, they shouldn't have to constantly be hammering it into our brains. Long close-ups of her tears shouldn't be required if their writing is as convincing as they supposedly believe.

 

This. Also, maybe if they would allow her to actually admit some wrongdoing to people who aren't Henry, it would go a long way, too. I, for one, would like to see some recognition of the fact that the curse actually destroyed some people's lives and that it wasn't just a minor inconvenience. I would like to see some recognition of the people she murdered and the people whose lives will never be the same because of that. Basically, show me why she's worthy of my sympathy, and I will feel it. Simply not getting away with her evil deeds is not enough to garner sympathy from me.

[Anakerie]

I really am enjoying the Captain Swan relationship, much better than I expected to. Hook isn't perfect by a long-shot and doesn't always make the right choices, but he is trying to better himself and he really does seem to love Emma. Unlike Regina and Rumple, he regrets the things he's done in the past and wants to move beyond it. There's nothing about their relationship that makes me cringe or want to throw a cat through my television set, and they are cute together.

[Anakerie]

 

 Belle being married to the Dark One shouldn't really expect him to volunteer with children and go to church every Sunday.

I'm now picturing Rumple in a big flowered hat flailing around in the aisle of a church, throwing his arms up into the air, and testifying that he's "GOT THE SPIRIT, LORD!"

Edited November 7, 2014 by Anakerie

[Actionmage]

I know this may be minor, but I was sort of hoping that we'd see more of Snow and David's friends want to help with Prince Snowflake.  To have a chance with him that they also missed out on, with Emma. The dwarves and Granny and Red, especially, probably would be fun caregivers in that they aren't your typical sitters! They guys taking him around the mines, Grumpy with the baby Bjorn(!!), and just being cute with the itty one. Red and Granny fussing over him, like family (because they are), but also being outdoorsy and talk of how they'll teach him to track as well as they do? Would be cute, but not sappy.

 

These are people that David and Snow won over as personal friends; who pledged to die for them if the need arose. Where are those relationships, which would only strengthen the family feel of not only the tow, but the show? The show that ABC was trumpeting as a show families could watch together.

 

It feels, to me, that Friendship isn't Magic in this show, except for the recent must-have-Regina's-friendship from Emma!  Friendships that aren't leading to Romance are detritus on the Plot!Plot!Plot! road. Family gets barely a nod, except when tiic want Regina to endorse something, so I'm not surprised that friendships shown in S1 have been eliminated from the screen or twisted/bent for Reasons! Where is Ghepetto and Pinocchio? Yes, we won't forget their show history, but Marco was part of Snow and David's inner circle. He saved Emma.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Actionmage